Saturday, January 9, 2016

[gita-talk] How can I become eternal ?

 



Question: I don't want to die. How can I become immortal or eternal?  

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Question: How can I become immortal or eternal?  

Most sadhaks responded that I am already immortal. I don't have to do anything to achieve the state of immortality.

My desire >> I don't want to die.

So, my desire is already fulfilled as I am immortal. I will never die. What will die is my body which I am not? That is great truth to me and all the sadhaks. What we want is already achieved?

One sadhak wrote >> You can not become immortal as you are ever immortal. It is to be just realized.

I have 2 questions --

1) Does realizing my immortality change anything? Identifying self as body is like a dream. Does the dream affect or change real non-dream state? How? Basically, do I need to focus on waking up from dream?

2) How can I wake up from this dream or realize immortality?

g a mittal

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Dear Moderator,
Ram Ram
Thanks to all contributors to this topic. It was very exciting and informative.
After reading all these responses, there is no way of closing this topic. it is
a bottomless or black hole, the answer or answers lies somewhere or will
come from One or many. Most of the contributors gave excellent responses
but leave you even confused or wanting to hear more or feel something is
missing. We have responses from all corners of thinking. No one should be
say what is right or wrong, as this is something, I believed was asked throughout
the ages, as one response said the philosophers, of the past had deep discussions
on this topic. This topic will give you a massive headache and never satisfied
My 2 cents is? ah, there are too many things in life you need to spend on that
to worry about if you like or will die. Enjoy the precious time you have NOW??
spent it wisely? with yourself? family? friends, cousins and relatives? if and when
you die, it will not matter to you? where you are going is another topic of discussion?
Can we start another topic "Where do we go when we Expire".
A famous writer said, I learnt about my presence on earth, and I am using this life
to pass thru, leaving it a better place when I arrived, and I do not want to come here
again. I feel this is a profound statement. So who will start the next topic. which is
Where do we go after we expire?
Professor Xavier would you start this one please.
Sincerely
Gupchand bai? Narayan?


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पहले यह सुनिश्चित करें :
कौन मरना नहीं चाहता? ध्यान रहे शरीर किसीका भी मरने (या जाने या विलुप्त होने) से बच नहीं सका है किसी भी युगमें आजतक अन्यथा दिखा दीजिये साधकको इसका अपवाद।
कौन अमर (immortal या eternal) होना चाहता है? जिसे मैं (I) संज्ञा दी है वह कौन है? कब उसका जन्म हुआ? इस समय वह कहाँ है? वह मरेगा (जिससे बचाना चाहते हैं) इसका आपको कैसे पता?
इन दोनों प्रश्नोंके उत्तर कहींसे भी (अच्छा हो स्वामी रचित साहित्यसे या स्वामीजी निसृत वाणीसे पता करें) पता होते ही 'अमर' होने संबंधी प्रश्न गायब हो जायेंगे।  
सविनय,
साधक

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Question asked: I don't want to die. How can I become immortal or eternal?
In fact 99% of humans do not want to die. Animals have no such desire as they are not given that instinct, because due to grace of GOD they raise from lower birth to higher birth without any effort until becoming human. Ref: Script Vivekachudamani of Sri Adi Sankara. Human birth considered as most rare by many sants and almost all scripts. From human birth one can raise to heaven with or without body. In 14 to16 century there are 3 sants who raised to abode of GOD by pushpaka viman in public view with their body and those place from where they left are still for one can see.
Dear Sadak, you don't want to die. If you can strictly follow the principles taught by sants, your body aura changes to deathlessness. There were 3 sants like that was Pattinathar, Arunagiri Nather, Vallar who disappeared in thin air without death. You can read their life in net.
Dear Sadak, every human has the ability to become immortal. To become immortal one has to be without DESIRE i.e. everything around you and everyone around, you should see without attachment. Many sants said an example, like water on lotus leaf. You can enjoy that comes on your way dharmically, but should not desire it for once more, as once more never ends. Bagavath Geetha says, desire is like pouring ghee in fire to put it off. Whereas fire grows bigger with ghee. I would say in Kaliyug, pouring petrol on fire. Actually all creatures do not have any desire, except human. Animals and creatures have only instinct for sex only when needed. They do not crave for it. We humans crave for unlimited desire from money, to woman, vengeance, greed, power etc + to live without death. Only by removing from bottom of mind those desires, you can be free from death, like Sants tukaram, gnaneswar, puanderdoss,  and host of sants in south India.
The basic knowledge that why we go to temples, read puranas, sat sangh etc is NOT known to 99% of people. Only that knowledge will help to raise from humans to divinity like Buddha, Christ, 12 Alwars, 63 Nayanmars, hundreds of Bakthas. Sadaks should read the chapter where Sri Krishna says to Yudhister (Dharma Raj) about a pumpkin that was taken with them for puniya threet (Holy rivers bath) from himalasyas to middle of india.
B.Sathyanarayan, Chennai   

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Hari SharaNam,
Your want of not to die is an indication of your immortality. You can not become immortal as you are ever immortal. It is to be just realized.
May God bless you!
N. K. Dubey

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Hari Om

It is wonderful that you don't want to die. But do not feel special about your want. There is no creature in this universe who wants to die. There s nothing special, therefore, about your not wanting to die. Ha !!! But there is one more fact - No body wants to die and no body remains alive. Every one must die. 

Now come to the Q. There is desire in you ( and why only in you ...in every one who lives) to become immortal. That desire proves that immortality is possible. Because it is a law that if you have any desire in you, the element to fulfil that desire exists. For example, if you feel thirsty that means there is some element already present , in the instant case - water, which can quench your thirst. Similarly, if you have desire of immortality , that means immortality is existing, and that means one can become immortal. 

Now you have asked how to become immortal. Actually , you are already immortal. Now happy ? Yes ... It is a fact that you are already immortal. Check with any Scripture of Sanatan (Eternal) Dharma- you will find that you are already immortal. You are not experiencing that immortality because you have wedded yourself with mortal. You want to live in the present "body" forever. That is not possible. It is your stupidity that in spite of you being immortal, you like mortal body. Who can help such stupid guy ? So if you want to be immortal, accept immortality of your soul. Do not accept mortal body to become immortal. Do that, you will experience immortality. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Your body will die not you.
You are atma which can be realised by self less action for the welfare of all (gita 3-19),knowledge of perishable(Gita 5-16),believe in God (gita10-11)
You can approach Guru for salvation (gita4 slok34) & Bhagwat(11-3slok21)
But you have to do your salvation by your own attitude

Pawan Kumar Singhal

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The only phenomenon that is permanent is change. Everything changes, even the rate of change is changing. Our constituent particles may be permanent in the present edition of the universe, but we, being a combination of the constituents, are subject to constant change. So the desire not to die or to remain eternal is itself an unclear one. If God appears in front of me and asks me to choose the combination and stage of mine which I want not to die but be there forever, which combination that I have been so far shall I choose? On top of it, it is a selfish desire. Even if the universe around me, including me, is to be there intact forever, it will be so boring. So, let me die and not be there forever. If I cannot make the best of what I am now, what is the guarantee that I can do so even if I do not die and continue forever?

k s rao

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Read 'Living Heaven Here on Earth: Finding the Divinity Within You' a new book

gappec

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The topic of discussion here is "I don't want to die. How can I become immortal or eternal?"
This, the quest for eternity is perhaps the root of all philosophies and religions.
Here the keywords are I and eternal.  
What is I or human existence? This is a very basic question for which there are no answers. So we have to start with a hypothetical answer and that was provided by the great mathematician and philosopher Rene Descartes according to whom "Cognito; ergo Sum (I think; so I exist)" So we presume we exist because we think and consequently ask questions like "I don't want to die. How can I become immortal or eternal?"
But from the absolute or philosophical point of  view this is only a presumption.
Now let us see what we are from the material or physical point of view. We are made of matter - electrons, atoms, molecules etc - which keep on changing. What is more, we keep shedding these atoms and molecules and taking in new atoms and molecules in a constant biological process. So like the waters of a river our body and its ingredients keep changing from moment to moment. It is in this context that the Greek Philosopher Heraclitus said that we cannot step into the same river twice.
Though the waters of a river keep changing constantly we still give it the same name such as Ganges or Periyar. It is the same with us. Though our names remain the same throughout life, our body particles keep changing constantly like the waters of a river. So in a way I am not the same from moment to moment.
So from the point of philosophy and biology I am not an absolute entity, but only a psychological or existential assumption.
Now about eternity. We are made of matter, different kinds of matter. And according to the first law of thermodynamics no matter can be created or destroyed. Religions say that we are created. But it vitiates against the first law of thermodynamics. Instead, our constituent matter has existed for ever and will exist for ever. So in a way of saying we are mortal and will end with death when we cannot think as Descartes said. On the other hand the matter that constitutes our body cannot be destroyed and will remain eternal if the first law of thermodynamics holds good which it seems to do under all circumstances.
New discoveries like black holes and singularities are being made every so often and so a concrete answer to the topic of this discussion "I don't want to die. How can I become immortal or eternal?" remains elusive at this point of time.   Of course religions, scriptures and godmen have answers to everything. The problem is whether their answers will stand up to the scrutiny of reason and science.

varecatx

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Hari OM,

You can not become eternal in one life time. It can take you several life times. First,
you need to control your mind- thoughts (do "thinking divine, 24/7") for
many years and see how far you can go and how many lessons you can learn. 
Depending on where and how you far can get there, you next life journey will begin. 

If you want to become eternal now then who will pay for "sins" and bad-
karma? If you have done no "sin" then you should be knowing your fate
and not asking people who are as lost as you are. Asking people means that
your no better than them. Good luck!

notesav

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Shri Hari

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Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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