Thursday, November 19, 2015

[gita-talk] Clarification - If God is Unthinkable, how can He be meditated upon and vice versa?


Shree Hari 
परमात्मा अचिन्त्य है‒'अचिन्त्यम्', उसका जो चिन्तन (स्मरण) करता है‒'अनुस्मरेत्' (८ । ९), तो जो अचिन्त्य है, उसका चिन्तन कैसे ? और जिसका चिन्तन होता है, वह अचिन्त्य कैसे ?
God is 'Achintyam' (unthinkable),  but Lord says to 'anusmaret' to meditate (to think, remember, contemplate) on Him.  (Gita 8/9).  How to meditate on, (to think of)  the Unthinkable ?  And that which one can meditate, think, contemplate  on,  How is He unthinkable ?  
Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram

सुश्री कृष्णजी समुद्रला! आपने एक अद्भुत concept (तत्त्व) दिया कि परमात्मा तत्त्वत: तत्त्व (concept) है, न कि कोई शरीर। शेताश्वतर उपनिषद् में इसको स्पष्ट किया गया है। 
साधक आपको नमन करता है। 
श्री B Sathyanarayan जी! 
संत जयदेवका चोरोंके प्रति किया गया व्यवहार आज कोई करे तो उसे क्या कहेंगे? 
सिद्धेश्वररकी भाँति कोई पहाड़ीसे सागरमें कूद जाये तो उसे क्या कहेंगे?
आजके समयमें इनकी प्रासंगिकता वैसी नहीं रही जैसी कभी थी। 
Hari SharaNam !
The shloka 8/8 says that the Supreme can be attained by [always] meditating on him ( अनुचिन्तयन् ). Similarly, the shloka 8/9 says that the Supreme can be attained by [always] remembering him ( अनुस्मरेत् ). The same shloka (i.e. 8/9) says that his form (i.e. रुपम्) can not be caught completely even by the meditating/contemplating mind (i.e. चित्त)  (अचिन्त्य रुपम् ).  Since the meditation / contemplation (i.e. चिन्तन ) and remembering (i.e. स्मरण)  are saadhanas/efforts to follow (i.e. अनु ) the Supreme/TRUTH though its form can not be caught completely by the meditative mind, these saadhanaas (because of its association with the Supreme) of are also correct.  In other words, there is no contradiction.

May All be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey

Dear Sadaks,
GOD said in upanashids as Apprameyam. i.e cannot be seen with our sense organs. Annatham- Omnipresent. So think of GOD that he is filled everywhere, and do only good deeds and do not abuse anyone anything, live totally dharmic life. This is contemplating on GOD. Ex: Sant Jaidev saw 2 thieves (who harmed him) as Adithi Devo Bava (as his guests) and gave gold and silver.Tukaram was beaten by a man for NO fault. Tukaram said it is all Vital game. Sideswarar tried to concentrate on Bhagavan Shiva. When NO results, he jumped off a cliff. But Bhagan Shiva caught him falling and raised him to ground.Surrender to unknown became known to Sideswarar and his temple stands as proof in Sholapur.

          Dear Sadhak,
          Yes परमात्मा is unthinkable so you find impossible to meditate on him. But you have your soul (or जीवात्मा) that is अंश of परमात्मा and also not visible from outside. So meditate on the Soul or Divinity within you. The meditation will reach परमात्मा without any special efforts.
         With regards,
         ------Mukund Apte

Is the questioner referring to 8.9 of Gita.  Kavim Puraanam anusaasitaaram ANoh Aneeyam AnusmaredyaH, Sarvasya daataaram Achintya Roopam. 
Firstly, Parama atma is a concept or Tattva. It has no particular shape or body Hence it can be seen in any body or for those who canbnot see in every particle even in the smallest particle (Anoh aneeya) he cannot be "seen". Because PA is concept or Tattva he can be only thought of or thought of by a versy disciplined Mana. This is the implication of Anusmaredya.
As PA is capable of taking any shape we cannot think of a particular shape or form s his. This is Achintya Roopam. As It is achintya roopam (not unthinkable but un envisagable), It has to be perceived only by disciplined samayama thought or Mana.
Achintya roopa is also reflected in Svetasvatara Upanishat (4.19) Na pratimo asti. THus Upanishat is not in favor of worshipping PA as an Idol or Murti. It is right to say PA is in the Murty, but believing that Murty is PA is wrong
Krish Samudrala
साधकने जो समझा है : 'वह' अचिन्त्य है अर्थात् मन, बुद्धि आदिसे 'उस' का चिंतन नहीं किया जा सकता। स्वयंसे 'उस' का स्मरण अर्थात् (शरणागत होकर) साथ (सम्मुख) रहना, हो सकता है। 


Shree Hari  Ram Ram 

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