Friday, July 31, 2015

[gita-talk] सबके किस सुखसे सुखी होनेकी बात कही गयी है?

 

समझना है
प्रार्थना 'सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिन: … … ' में सबके किस सुखसे सुखी होनेकी बात कही गयी है?
कहा है : कर्मयोग, ज्ञानयोग, भक्तियोग आदि सबमें सुखभोग बाधक है। साधक जहाँ सुख लेता है, वहीं अटक जाता है -- यह सार बात है। 
जब सुखभोग इतना घातक अटकाव उपस्थित कर देता है तो सबके सुखी होनेकी प्रार्थना करनेका प्रयोजन ही क्या?
कृपया समझायें। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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  • हरि ओम

    शब्दों के हेर फेर का अटकाव केवल प्रश्न कर्ता के मष्तिष्क में है, और कहीं नहीं ! आपने नहीं सुना इसका मतलब यह नहीं कि वह सत्य न हो ! जैसे - प्रसन्नात्मा ही ब्रह्म को प्राप्त करता है , प्रसन्नता मन की तपस्या है आदि गीता के वचन है ! प्रसन्न होने में क्या तकलीफ़ है भाई ? सहज सुख राशि व आनन्द तो हमारे स्वरूप में है ! 

    श्रीनारायणजी चाण्डा - आप बिल्कुल ठीक हैं , सही बात बताई है आपने !

    जय श्री कृष्णा

    व्यास एन बी 
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  • बड़े भैया श्री Vyas N B !
    सारी उलझन यहीं तो थी। शब्दों 'सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिन:' का अर्थ 'सब सुखी हों' समझते रहे। 
    अब आपने बताया शब्दों 'सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिन:' का अर्थ 'सबको सुखी देखकर सुखी हों' है। 
    कितना छिपा हुआ अर्थ उजागर कर दिया? इसके लिये धन्यवाद।
    फिर भी उलझन वहीं की वहीं रही। नाराज मत होइयेगा। 
    सुखी तो तभी होंगे जब दूसरोंको सुखी देखनेसे होनेवाला सुख पायेंगे (नहीं पायेंगे तो सुखी ही कैसे होंगे?) और बिना भोगे पाना सिद्ध होता ही नहीं। 
    उदाहरणार्थ : किसीको कहा 'दीर्घजीवी भव' तो जबतक वह दीर्घ आयु भोगेगा नहीं, दीर्घजीवी होगा ही कैसे?
    सविनय,
    साधक 
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    • My dear Sadak Ji,
                                     Namaskar!
      I, again and again, appreciate the depth with which you put any question and then also your deep and clear understanding with which you analyse and try to understand the answers n responses in return!

      Coming to your agreeing that remaining always Equipoised is better word than remaining Happy is very very correct! But then, the words Contentment and Happiness are not unwanted and useless words for achieving that  Equipoised state of yourself with Paramatma, you are referring to! 

      Let me try to use the proper order of these three words in my explanation of the subject matter so that no confusion remains at all and one would  understand the main point of your mind as well!

      First step for achieving that  Equipoised state of yourself with Parmatma is to remain contented in every situation. In other words, without real contentment that SAMTA with Paramatma which, you are hinting would  never be possible to achieve. Now, with remaining contended in every situation you may achieve that  Equipoised state of yourself with Parmatma which state would derive an immense  PEACE (PARAM ANANADA) which also could be termed as SUPER HAPPY STATE!

      Hope all three words are put in order and are understandable!

      Narayana, Narayana!

      Kuldeep K. Kaul
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प्राप्त उत्तरोंमेंसे समझना है :
संतुष्टि (contentment) का सुख भोगना भी साधकके लिये बाधक बताया गया है। 
शब्द happy का अर्थ सुखी (हिंदीमें) जिस लेखमें बताया गया हो, कृपया उससे परिचित करायें। 
साधक always be happy से अधिक always be equanimous को जानता (और मानता) है। 
ऐसा कहीं सुना नहीं - being happy is yog (प्रसन्न रहना ही योग है)। 
परमात्मासे योग चाहा गया है या प्रसन्नतासे योग चाहा गया है? उसके लिये प्रसन्नता नहीं, समता चाही गयी है।  
शब्दोंके हेरफेरमें पड़कर असली बातसे भटक रहे हैं। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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Sukh bhog is baadhak. Not Sukh. 
Bhog implies desire to have sukh.   desire is baadhak.
Sukh =samaadhaan= santosh = contended. 
Sukh in itself is not baadhak.
 
 
Shrinarayan Chandak

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Hari Om

This very Q suggests poor translation of Sanskrita verse. " सर्वे भवन्तु सुख़न: ....." By no stretch of imagination it indicates SUKHBHOG ( consumption of pleasure ) - it is a prayer wishing the world at large to be happy. Where is the Q of a striver making SUKHBHOG ? 

While the above is complete answer to the queer it's, let me even take a step further.

In any case , what is correct is becoming happy by seeing others happy , and becoming sad by seeing others sad - that is not SUKHBHOG or Dukhabhog rather that is the correct meaning of SEVA . When you become happy by seeing others happy - your desire for own happiness goes away ; when you become sad by seeing others sad - your desire for personal consumption and accumulation goes away. 

Jai Shree Krishna 

Vyas N B 
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It's simply wishing sin less life for all living beings. 
Raina


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Sadhak Ji
Sarvabhoota hite rataha and sarvatrasmabuddhayaha are people Krishna likes.  At the moment of sukha, I am feeling good. Whether this feeling good is encroaching upon other's peaceful, humane, and fulfilling basic needs is the litmus test. Asangraha is another testing line. 
Veena

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My Dear Sadak Ji,

You have put a very good question! Probably, in Source प्रार्थना 'सर्वे भवन्तु सुखिन: … … one is wishing CONTENTMENT IN EVERYBODY'S LIFE. To my mind,Santushti (CONTENTMENT) is the best possible situation under which a person would remain Happy or in state ofParam Sukh
 Jai Shri Krishna (Narayana)

(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)

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On July 3rd, there was message thread with subject "Our duty is to remain happy" on sadhak mailing list. 

What does "happy" mean in that article? It is our duty to remain happy and saints pray that every one becomes successful in their duty and becomes happy.

G A Mittal



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[gita-talk] Giving birth to child is biological or spiritual process ?

 

One of my friend has put some question to me.

Now a days young couple make love frequently and below are the questions.. 

how many child one should have ? 1  2 or 3 or more?
is giving birth is a biological process or a spiritual process (new soul take a body).
What to do for unplanned child? 
Now a days abortion pills are easily available in market & people use it frequently.


I have answered the question as below.
<<
Self realisation is the goal of life and sex has lease priority in that.

Sexual relation ship are allowed only for reproduction not for pleasure.
So if we do sex only for reproduction then these kind of situation will not come.

According to me the process of giving birth is biological & spiritual both.Even i ended up with a conclusion that 
birth is totally spiritual as the life come to the body by the Grace of God only.
>>

My friend was satisfied with the answers but in turn he said the point which I made are not valid for this generation.
Practically it's not possible to make love only when you want kids and keep unplanned child.


As i had no answer for him so I thought i will put you to you guys. 

Ram Ram...

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Ram Ram,

I read the answers, most of them are same as I have already quoted to my friend.

I reiiterate the below point again & Please enlighten us by keeping in mind that the audience is Young generation.

<<Practically it's not possible to make love only when you want kids .>>


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  • बड़े भैया श्री Vyas N B जी!
    आपकी एक बात [there are other living forms ( yonis ) where you can indulge in sense gratification better] समझमें नहीं आयी। मनुष्यका यह अपने मुँह मियाँ मिट्ठू बनना जैसी बात है जो वह समझता है कि मजेके लिये सेक्समें प्रवृत्त होना पशुता है, जबकि तथ्य यह है कि कुत्ता-कुतिया, घोड़ा-घोड़ी, गधा-गधी भी तभी सेक्समें प्रवृत्त होते हैं जब कुतिया, घोड़ी, गधी प्रजननके लिये ऋतुमती (on heat) होती है अन्यथा (non-heat period में) दोनों लिपटे पड़े सोते रहते हैं (मनुष्यकी तरह नहीं कि जहाँ स्त्री दिखी नहीं कि लार टपकने लगी)।  
    क्या कभी गर्भिणी कुतिया या गर्भिणी घोड़ी या गर्भिणी गधीसे सेक्स होते देखा है आपने? यह मनुष्य ही है जो अंत तक 
    (प्रसव होनेके पहले तक) गर्भिणी स्त्रीसे भी सेक्स करनेको आतुर रहता है फिर भी अपनेको पशुसे श्रेष्ठ समझता है। 
    अस्तु। 
    सविनय,
    साधक 
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  • Dear Sir,
               The question is raised about when आत्मा enters the body created by the married couple by sexual means for reproduction. As we are aware, many souls that have completed their कर्मफल (by suffering or enjoying as their cases might be), they are ready for rebirth to continue their progress towards मोक्ष in this (new) human birth. So they are in search of suitable parents where they may have better chance to continue their progress. As per नासदीय सूक्त in the last मंडल of ऋग्वेद, they crowd at a site where new body is generated. Whichever soul finds the parents suitable, enters the body of the embryo within 3 to 4 weeks after fertilization of the female egg is successful. 
             This being spiritual progress of the soul, the birth of a baby becomes spiritual.
             With regards,
             ------Mukund Apte . 
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  • श्री GA Mittal जी के कथन Sex is normal part of life. Having sex is biological as it involves human biology! "vasudeva sarvam" - So, sex is divine also. में समझना है कि sex biological (शुद्ध प्रकृति) होते हुये divine (शुद्ध चेतन) कैसे हो गया? प्रकृति जड़ कही गयी है (sex में involved सभी शरीर जड़ कहे गये हैं)। 
    divine का अर्थ यदि दिव्य ( चेतनके अतिरिक्त जड़ कभी दिव्य हुआ हो, इसका शास्त्रीय प्रमाण साधकको प्राप्त नहीं) समझा जाय तो फिर जड़की जड़ता विलुप्त हो जायगी और केवल चेतन रह जायगा। 
    थोड़ी व्याख्या और अपेक्षित है। 
    सविनय,
    साधक 
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Hari Om

When does Atman enters the body? - is the Q

When male sperm meets the female ovum and enters the womb !!!

As regards the main Q - if you go to your wife without desiring a child, what have you done ? One - You have made her a prostitute ! One does not go to a prostitute for getting a child - isn't it ? If the same thing you do with your better half, then what have you made her ? Is it a respect to a female ?  Two- You indulge in pure BHOG only, and thus you do not fall into exception provided in Gita 7/11 - DHARMAVIRUDDHO BHUTESHU KAMOSMI BHARATARSHABHAH !!

That your friend finds the correct answer given you to be impractical, does not change the truth. Truth remains that the only purpose of human life is Self Realisation and not procreation. 

Tell your friend - there are other living forms ( yonis ) where you can indulge in sense gratification better... Say dog, bitch, horse, donkey ...if you misuse the human birth by doing the same thing which animals do ( and of course they do that better than humans ) , then God will give you next birth as dog or bitch....He is a very affectionate father...just as You give your child perishable toys to make the child happy, what if God gives you rebirth as dog or bitch. Indulge as much as you relish, as long as you want. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 



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  • Dear Sadaks,
    Giving birth to a child is purely nothing but your own past birth Karma. Read Vivekacudamani and know perfectly.
    B.Sathyasnarayan- Chennai 

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Getting human birth is to pursue spiritualism and to getting rid off from chain of birth and death.   Giving birth is both spiritual and biological process.  The child is expected to do the final rites to the departed soul of the father to erase the sin of his father for giving him birth.

with namaskarams to sadhaks

S.Vaidyanathan

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श्री Japesh Bandyopadhyay जी !
कृपया यह और बता दें कि सृष्टिमें इस समय जितने भी जीवित zygote अस्तित्वमें हैं (संख्या शायद ही कोई बता सके, न तो जीव-वैज्ञानिक और न ही शास्त्र बताते हैं), निश्चित रूपसे सभी zygote में आत्मा एक ही समयमें (at same moment of time) enter हुई अथवा अलग-अलग समय (point of time) में? zygote बनानेवाले sperm और ovum एक ही समयमें (at same moment of time) unite हुये हों, यह कैसे संभव हो सकता है?
अब यदि आप कहते हैं कि zygote में आत्मा अलग-अलग समय (point of time) में enter हुई तो कृपया बताइये कि आत्मा (जिसे सर्वगत कहा गया है, या आप उसे सर्वगत ही नहीं मानते) जो अलग-अलग zygote में enter हुईं उनकी संख्या कितनी होगी? सर्वगत तो एक ही हो सकती है दो नहीं, दो होते ही उनमें space होगी। 
कृपया अपने कथनको स्पष्ट कीजिये। 
सविनय,
साधक   

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साधक 
Indrani द्वारा पूछे प्रश्न (
when does the atman enter the body?) 
को समझा नहीं। 
क्या जिसे आत्मा कहा गया है (जो पहलेसे ही सर्वगत है), वह किसी शरीरमें (जो सर्वगत नहीं है) प्रवेश कर सकता है? 
'प्रवेश करना' (enter) की परिभाषाके अनुसार प्रवेश वहीं किया जाता है जहाँ प्रवेश करनेवाला पहले नहीं होता। टीवी सीरियलों में जो कुछ भी आत्मा संबंधी दिखाया 
जाता है, उससे भ्रमित होकर सर्वगत आत्माको वह मत समझें जो वह नहीं है अर्थात आत्मा कहींसे आता या कहींको जाता हो। आत्मा (जिसको परमात्माका अंश कहा गया है) अपने अंशी परमात्मासे पूर्णत: अभिन्न (सर्वगत) होते हुये कहीं आने-जानेवाला हो ही नहीं सकता।  
अस्तु। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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 Every thing that happens in the Universe is divine spiritual process : some of these divine processes  are physical in form, content and as a phenomenon.
Basudeb Sen


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This is a response to sadhika Indrani ji's question, "When does the atman enter the body?" The atman, along with the sukshma sharir (subtle body), enters the womb of the mother during the time the sperm unites with the ovum and the zygote is formed. Which atman will enter? This depends on the samskaras of the parents and their mental state during their union. If they unite only for pleasure, a lusty individual will enter the womb. Hence we have provisions in the shastras on when to unite and how to unite. If we follow the provisions, a physically strong, emotionally stable, intellectually advanced and spiritually elevated child will be born. -Japesh Bandyopadhyay




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  • MY OPINION
  • Sex is normal part of life. Having sex is biological as it involves human biology!

  • "vasudeva sarvam" - So, sex is divine also.

    India cannot continue to increase its population. Otherwise, chaos and suffering will increase further. Environment and animals will also be destroyed. In current context, increasing population seems wrong to me.

    In India, there is concern for safety of women in India. Girl cannot walk on road at night safely. Men are so low grade that they can get excited easily by women who wear mini-skirts etc. Don't be such a low grade men. As long as you do sex for mutual happiness, it is good. At least don't hurt women for sex and control them as that is quite prevalent in India now.
GA Mittal

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साधक द्वारा मित्रके प्रश्नोंके उत्तर :
एक - बच्चोंको जन्म देना मनुष्यके हाथमें नहीं है। यदि है तो कृपया उन सभी निस्संतान दम्पतियोंको 
विधि बतायें जो संतान पानेके लिये तरस रहे हैं। बच्चोंकी संख्याका निर्धारण समाजमें कब-कब हो सका है?
दो - बच्चेका जन्म होना दैवी (मनुष्येतर नियंत्रित) प्रक्रिया है। शरीरका जन्मना जैविक प्रक्रिया है। 
बच्चेका जन्म होना आत्मिक (spiritual) प्रक्रिया संभव ही नहीं (न करोति न लिप्यते)। 
तीन - जिसे unplanned child कह रहे हैं वह deliberately done sexual act का परिणाम है। 
जब sexual act deliberately planned था तो उसका result (child) unplanned कैसे? 
किसीने सच कहा है : जैसा करोगे, वैसा भरोगे।  
चार - गर्भ-समापनकी गोलियाँ बाजारमें उपलब्ध हैं तो हों, हमें उनका आश्रय नहीं लेना। 
जो पत्नीको भोग्या समझते हैं, वही उसको इन गोलियोंका सेवन कराते हैं अथवा स्वयं vasectomy कराते हैं। 
हमें उन जैसा नहीं बनना। संतति नियमनका नैसर्गिक उपाय संयम है।  
समझ अपनी-अपनी। 
अस्तु। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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dears in fact the sex is good and divine when you use it naturally for reproduction. let us see where we stand in this cosmos of living beings. we are the only species of living beings who indulge in sex for pleasure sake rest of the whole life uses sex for reproduction once a year. more we indulged in sex more we were drawn to perversion to wards annual ,oral even telephonic sex and many more. we the crown of the creation the man has fallen worst than an animal. in order to be real humans in India sex beyond decent limits  is taboo and looked down upon. so let us try to follow the natural path set for the humans by the nature. if every individual acts positive the success is not far off.

c k kaul 

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when does the atman enter the body?
 
Indrani 

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