Saturday, August 2, 2014

[gita-talk] Understanding Utility of this Human Body

 

Shree Hari 

Please be BRIEF in all responses.   Thank you !  
Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram 
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Utility of this Human Body? 
Swamiji says : For God Realization,  there is no need whatsoever (not in the least bit) of the body or this world  (This is the Truth)
Question is : If this body is of no use in realizing God, then why has it been said ''बड़े भाग मानुस तन पावा'' "with much fortune this human body has been attained" 
Please explain this,  
Humbly,
Sadhak   

मानव तनकी उपयोगिता? 
स्वामीजीने कहा है : परमात्माकी प्राप्तिमें शरीर अथवा 
संसारकी किंचिन्मात्र भी जरूरत नहीं है। (यह सत्य है।)
प्रश्न यह है : यह शरीर परमात्मप्राप्तिमें काम आता नहीं, 
फिर ''बड़े भाग मानुस तन पावा'' क्यों गाया गया है? 
कृपया समझायें। 
सविनय,
साधक  

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Hari Om

Same Goswamiji Tulsidasji Maharaj has stated that " panchratan yeh ADHAM SHAREERA" ( this impure body made of five elements) which means IT IS NOT HUMAN BODY that has been praised in the Scriptures. It is worst body in the entire creation of 84 lac bodies. What does human body consists of - ego, intellect, mind, eyes, ears, nose, tongue, skin, genitals - what else ? Now read carefully -  a vulture sees better than humans , flying 2-3 Kms above in the sky , it can see a rotten piece of flesh . A human can not see like that. Ears - a dog and many other species have better hearing capacity than humans. Nose - you can't sniff like a dog. Eating- animals feast on food better than humans any day. Skin- beauty - compare some beautiful fish , peacocks, many small and big birds, their skins, their colors with humans. Sex - bull, donkey  far better than humans. Procreation ability - pigs, bitches have better ability. Mind - mind of birds , the fickleness there - compare with humans. Intellect - watch dolphins, watch how some animals plan killing their preys. See pack of wolves , their planned moves. Creativity - See how beautifully a bird with the help of beak only constructs it's home, provides for every contingency, rain etc. See how little ants create palaces in the sand. There are separate rooms, queen's room, all provisions. Utility - utility of a cow's body is infinite times more than a human body. Even urine and dung of cow is beneficial to world. Every single organ of a cow is beneficial to humanity. Cheating - See spiders' web ! Running - A cheetah or deer or horse runs faster than humans. Ego - watch when a lion walks. Longevity - snakes and turtles live longer than humans. ...the list is endless. 

All the above examples prove that as far body and its functioning, beauty, ability, utility etc are concerned the bodies of fish, animals, birds are far better than human body. Human body is worst body- of no use to any one. You feed best foods, drink water of Holy Ganges and take as output stool and urine from it. Every hole of human body releases foul and dirt only. Cough, Saliva, sweat, blood, moles, stool, urine, hairs, nails are some examples of releases by human body ....then some thing from ears also is released. From nose also not holy or sweet things come out. Then there are gases released from body, definitely not pleasurable to any nose. A young fertile female body releases every month something not very decent output. That is human body , Divine Sadhaks. It is a machine creating urine and stool- what else ? 

Then what is that makes " human birth" special ?  No...it is not presence of ego, intellect, mind, eyes, ears , skin, ability, beauty, utility, longevity, etc. That makes ot special , rare, praise worthy. It is VIVEKA ( power to discriminate) that makes human birth special and unique, praise worthy and rare. Only a human can say - " God is mine, I am God's" ! In animals , VIVEKA is present but in a very limited way only, to the extent of choosing, discriminating reg the food etc. In Devatas, it is present but it is useless for them because they are bodies created for BHOGA only. Only a human has quality, awakened power to discriminate. No other specie has that capability to discriminate between good and bad, doable and not doable, duty and non duty, eatable and not eatable, truth and false, sat and ASAT, perishable and imperishable, sentient and inert, ......!!! Hence it is presence of VIVEKA only that distinguishes human birth ( body) with other bodies and makes human birth a rare, and seekable even by better Devatas. 

Now comes next Q !  Is there no need of human body in God Realisation ? YES....YES...YES !!! Then why it has been given, is praised ? So that by use of VIVEKA , you can disconnect yourSELF with it. You get born in it with your connection already existing with it. Before you die, you must disconnect with it, by not considering it " me or mine " !  It is given to you so that you may realise  that it is separate from you, it is neither "you" nor " yours" !  Without human body given to you, how will you disconnect from it ?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 

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Atma Bodha Verse 31-37
31. The body, etc., up to the "Causal Body" – Ignorance – which are objects perceived, are as perishable as bubbles. Realize through discrimination that I am the 'Pure Brahman' ever completely separate from all these.
32. I am other than the body and so I am free from changes such as birth, wrinkling, senility, death, etc. I have nothing to do with the sense objects such as sound and taste, for I am without the sense-organs.
33. I am other than the mind and hence, I am free from sorrow, attachment, malice and fear, for "HE is without breath and without mind, Pure, etc.", is the Commandment of the great scripture, the Upanishads.
34. I am without attributes and actions; Eternal (Nitya) without any desire and thought (Nirvikalpa), without any dirt (Niranjana), without any change (Nirvikara), without form (Nirakara), ever-liberated (Nitya Mukta) ever-pure (Nirmala).
35. Like the space I fill all things within and without. Changeless and the same in all, at all times I am pure, unattached, stainless and motionless.
36. I am verily that Supreme Brahman alone which is Eternal, Pure and Free, One, indivisible and non-dual and of the nature of Changeless-Knowledge-Infinite.
37. The impression "I am Brahman" thus created by constant practice destroys ignorance and the agitation caused by it, just as medicine or Rasayana destroys disease.

The truth - I am the 'Pure Brahman' - is always true whether we accept, perceive or realize. It is always attained. Acceptance of atma as product of matter is illusory and is like a dream. Gita 2.16 states this dream has no substance or reality. Even though this dream is not real, human birth provides opportunity to wake up from dream i.e. get rid of illusion. Therefore, Tulsidasji states that one get human body due to great fortune.

Another important fact that we need to understand that this statement ("bade bhagya ...") is made in Ramcharitmans by Gosvami Tulsidasji. The path of Tulsidasji is karana-sapeksha sadhana. "Parmatma is always attained" leads to karana-nirpeksha sadhana. Some contradiction exists because of the nature of path. You will find these contradictions when you will read scriptures also as they sometimes describe karana-sapeksha sadhana and sometimes, describe karana-nirapeksha sadhana. 

Regards,
G A Mittal
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Dear Sadhak,
 
शिव भगवान ने दिव्य ज्ञान दिया है- At the beginning of the time cycle (सतयुग), the number of souls on earth were very few- just 9 lakh souls lived till the end of सतयुग i.e. till the end of the 1st major part of the 4 part time cycle. आत्मा के गुण समय-प्रति-समय काम होते जाते हैं. सतयुग समय की देवता आत्माएं १६ कला संपूर्ण थी. वर्त्तमान काल  कलयुग का।  आत्माएं पतित और निर्गुण हो-गयी हैं. एक बार पुनः काल चक्र पूरा होने जा-रहा है. हम सभी आत्माएं शांतिधाम, परमधाम में निवासती हैं. मुझ आत्मा में जैसे गुण और जितना बल है, मैं अपने कर्मो प्रमाण इस श्रिष्टि मंच पर अपना part निभाने-बजाने आता- जाता हुँ. ५००० वर्षों का एक कल्प जो होता है, वह अब पूरा होने जा-रहा है. इस समय सर्व आत्माएं अपने-अपने समय से अपने part अनुसार आती जा-रही हैं. इसी कलियुग के अंत के समय, जैसा की गीता में लिखा है, भगवान-परमात्मा स्वयं अवतरित होकरके हम आत्माओं को अपना परिचय देतें हैं, आत्मा का ज्ञान देते हैं और श्रिष्टि के रचना और रचयिता का ज्ञान देते हैं. यह परिवर्तन का समय है. यही समय है स्थापना-पुनर्निर्माण का- एक नए कल्प में सतयुग केआने का ।  
 
शुभ-कामनाएँ. 
 
Sanjay Jhunjhunwala
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श्री Sanjay Jhunjhunwala !
कथन ''When the body becomes old & dilapidated, the soul leaves the body & moves on to take another one. The new body that the soul gets from rebirth is based on its deeds in the immediately previous, besides its deeds in the previous births'' क्या यह स्पष्ट नहीं करता कि प्रति एक शरीरसे (body से) सम्बद्ध एक आत्मा (soul) होती है? फिर तो जितने शरीर, उतनी आत्मायें होनी निश्चित हैं। अन्यथा किसी एक शरीरके मरनेपर (on death of body) आत्मा (soul) उसे छोड़कर कैसे कहीं जायगी? क्या ये सभी आत्मायें (जितनी भी संख्या आप बतायें कि हैं) सर्वगत है? [गीता 2 : 24 ]
स्वामीजीने कहा है : ''स्वरूप एक शरीरमें सीमित नहीं है, प्रत्युत सर्वव्यापी है।'' 
यह आत्मा और शरीरका संबंध समझ नहीं आया।
अस्तु। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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Sadhak ji,  dhanyawad...

It is the self, who gets confused, who needs the understanding, who needs the body for whatever reasons,... Body-mind mechanism is only an instrument for self to interact with the outside world... and also it helps Self, in the process of getting clarity and getting to the pure state...   It is a wonderful world of illusions...  regards...sushil jain

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श्री Jay N,
कृपया श्री मुरारी भैया द्वारा प्रस्तुत कथन Will this human body help you to attain Paramatma? No, Paramatma is always attained. क्या यह नहीं दर्शाता कि जिनके पास human body नहीं है, उन्हें भी उतना 
ही परमात्मा प्राप्त (attained) है जितना कि उन्हें प्राप्त है जिनके पास human body है? वेदोंका ज्ञान क्या परमात्मासे परे है? समस्त वेद, शास्त्र, पुराण, उपनिषद् आदि परमात्माके अंशमेँ ही हैं। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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Is vishay me swamiji ne kaha hai ki ....vaastav me manushya sharir me;..sharir ki mahima nahi hai balki ...is sharir me jo vivek hai uski mahima hai......isliye jo pagal ho jaate hai....jinka vivek lupt ho jaata hai ....unka sharir manushya ka hote hue bhi we manushya nahi hai....ram ram

on this subject Swamiji has said, that in fact, in this human body,  the greatness is not of this body,  but the greatness is of the "vivek"  (power of discrimination).  Therefore he who becomes "mentally handicapped"  whose power of discrimination gets hidden,  his body though being a human body,  is not so.   ram ram 
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फिर तो यह गाना चाहिए था - ''बड़े भाग मानुष विवेक पावा'' न कि ''मानुष तन पावा'' . 
तन का अर्थ विवेक नहीं होता। 
राम राम 

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Consider these two in we human beings - (1) Soul conscious (2) Body conscious.
 
When the body becomes old & dilapidated, the soul leaves the body & moves on to take another one. The new body that the soul gets from rebirth is based on its deeds in the immediately previous, besides its deeds in the previous births. This is the souls Karmic account.
 
The soul's innate qualities (knowledge, truth, love, purity, peace, happiness, bliss) are equally bestowed by Parmatma, Ishwar to every individual soul. Yet, each soul is uniquely endowed to the extent that the soul has owned-up these qualities that each one is entitled to. In today's times (कलियुग) this means, accepting ourselves as we are, freeing ourselves from our own bondage of negative & wasteful thoughts & becoming righteous & virtuous.   
 
As such, living in soul consciousness gives access to truly knowing the self & its powers or capabilities. As against this, we find in today's time that we have become outward & are increasingly living in body consciousness. If this way of being is observed with truthfulness in the self, it will not be difficult to notice the fall-outs of being body conscious. Being body conscious not only limits & binds adversely the individual self, but has far reaching ill effects on the others & surroundings.
 
The five sense organs are illusionary, yet the intellect that presides over these senses, has the power to sort-out the illusion & be objective. The souls most important component is the intellect. The components of every soul are (1) मन (mind) (2) बुद्धी (intellect) (3) सन्स्कार (qualities).
 
A yogi aatma is in communion with Parmatma, taking powers & recharging itself from Him, and living a life based on His teachings (श्रीमत), always & increasingly living in His remembrance, being able to humbly appreciate His benevolence and His creation. This is possible only when a soul is born & using the body & its faculties, has an opportunity to live to do the right things through its thoughts, words & actions, to attain yog with Parmatma. When this is attained, a yogi's life becomes empowered by Parmatma's communion & becomes available for selfless service of his fellow beings. This alone provides it fullness & completeness.    
 
Greetings, good wishes.
 
Sanjay Jhunjhunwala 
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Ans: From Various age old scripts: Based on Karma Jeeva takes birth from plants to animals to birds to humans. So the body of any living creature (Including Human) is based on Prarabda, Sanchita, Aagami Karmas based on quantity & quality the Buddhi, Manus, & Ahankar is given form. So the body is used for extinguishing Papas & Puniyas. Once the Papas (Sins) & Puniyas (Good deeds based on Budhi) gets to ZERO account the Jeeva gets freedom from rebirth, like that of Budha, Chirst, Vishnavite 12 saints (Alwars), 63 Sivite saints (Nayanmars) etc had Zero account of papas & puniyas. But a small good desire also causes rebirth. (1) Like Jada Bharath in Srimath Bhagavath (2) Like a good man born as horse in Sri Vishnu Puran.
From Sri Adi Sankara Vivekachudamani Script- verse:-
Vadhathu Sastrani   (Following Sastras)
Yajanthu Devani  (Praying Demi Gods like Agni Varuna etc)
Kurvanthu Karmani (Doing Ritual Karma like Abisek to Idol)
Bajanthu Devani (Doing Bajani on Devathas)
ATHUMAIKA BHODANA- VINAHI MUKTHI- NA-SIDHIYATHE
BRAMA SATANTRA REPINI. (Without Athuma Gyan one cannot get mukthi even for the period of 4 Bramajis).
From an ant to an elephant mukthi was blessed. But their numbers were not notable. But Human in notable numbers obtained Mukthi. One saint Tukatam obtained Mukthi from Devu village near Pune and another from Kerala Saint Poonthanam from Perunthal Manna village. These 2 saints went abode in day light in view of public in 16th century.
Body is a temple for seeker and the same body is devilish for worldly man.   
B.Sathya
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श्री मुरारी भैया, 
So, it has been said that we get this birth due to great fortune.
birth का हिन्दी अर्थ जन्म होता है, न कि तन, जिसकी अंग्रेजी body है। 
अस्तु। 
सविनय,
साधक 
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Dear Sadhak,

Swamiji describes real (SAT) domain and unreal (ASAT) domain. It is important to understand and realize the difference. In Gita 13.35 states - "Those, who with the eyes of wisdom, perceive the difference between Ksetra (Field or body) and Ksetrajna (the knower of field, atma, self) and between prakritti along with it evolutes and the self (atma), attain the Supreme." 

From the perspective of real, you never die and you are eternal. From the perspective of unreal, it seems so hard to accept that we never die. 

From the perspective of REAL (SAT) domain --
Can you do anything to become eternal? No, you can't. 
You are always eternal. Are human or self enlightened people more eternal than animals? No, all are equally eternal. 
Will this human body help you to become eternal? No, you are always eternal.

Same applies to attainment of Paramatma.
Can you do anything to become attain Paramatma? No, you can't. 
Parmatma is always attained.. Are human or self enlightened people have higher realization or attainment of Parmatma? No.
Will this human body help you to attain Paramatma? No, Paramatma is always attained.

Even though we are eternal still death seems so real. Seeing self as dying is illusory but still real in ASAT domain. So, from perspective of ASAT domain, you attain immortality or freedom from death. Upanishads say -- mrityor ma amritam gamaya. That attainment of immortality is easiest in human birth. So, it has been said that we get this birth due to great fortune. These statements are in context of ASAT domain.

You need to understand the context of statement and resolve contradiction based on the context in which statement was made.

Regards,
Murari Das

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श्री Scheel,
कथन Human body is considered unique/important because it appears to be the most developed form of creation में  is considered (न कि is actually) औरit appears (न कि it is
यही दर्शाता है कि अपने ही कथनमें आप निश्चित (sure) नहीं हैं। 
Humble होनेके  लिये मनुष्यको शरीर (body) की महत्ता दिखानेकी क्या जरूरत? Humbleness को किसी 
क्रिया अथवा वस्तुकी जरूरत नहीं होती, स्वयं (self) की जरूरत होती है। Humble स्वयं (self) होता है या शरीर humble होता है?
अस्तु,
सविनय,
साधक 

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Life is a great mystery... we all keep guessing it.... 

Why a all powerful entity needs a human body for realizing his self? is one of the questions that humanity has been working on... Many of us have answers based on our meditations/experiences/understanding... but there is no consensus and clarity yet for everyone to agree...

One thing that is easily observable is that this world is about creativity...human body, like other things in the universe, is part of that wonderful creation process... 

Human body is considered unique/important because it appears to be the most developed form of creation... why we say "with much fortune this body has been attained" is because to keep the human beings humble, peaceful, with definite conduct, happy, caring, trustworthy, truthfull....for a truely happy, prosperous and peaceful world...

Scheel

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please read how god came in to my life- by bharatiya vidya bhavan,
chopaty-mumbai
god bless you
swamiji (Swami Krishnanand)


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yes this was told by gandhiji in his experiments of truth and also by 
holy mother sharada devi that this human body has to be maintained to 
do sadhana over using abusing is also bad everything should be in 
moderation, when we are young we over use like sachin tendulkar and he 
had to be operated several times for tennis elbow of his hands and 
finally he retired, for sadahana like lata mangeshkar who did not 
marry for her magic in her throat 1000 of saints experimented with 
their body to qualify the supreme mind, 

pl remember everything in moderation 

god bless you  

swamiji  (Swami Krishnanand)

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Dear all,

THe moment we mention the word God,  we have no choice  but to go to  Veda.

God is  purely a Vedic concept.

If we did not have a human body,  we could not have studied Veda in this world at all  !!   

Hence the need for human body.   Hence the importance of  being born in a human body.   

Apart from humans,   which other species has preserved Veda ?.    Think about it.

Regards,
Jay N.

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