Thursday, July 24, 2014

[gita-talk] Would like to Understand "The All Pervading" and "Ansh" and its Implications

 

Would like to Understand 

Two words "Sarvavyaapi"  (All pervasive) and "Ansh"  (ray of consciousness,  fraction of whole) and its implications.  
Question :   Is All pervasive only God,  or is some other also all pervasive. 
Question - Does "Ansh" (fraction) meansone who has a separate existence from the "anshi"  (whole) ?  
Question :  Does "jeev" (embodied soul,  have an independent existence apart from the all pervading Supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)?  
Swamiji says - Besides the one Supreme Consciousness (Paramatma),  nothing whatsoever has been born !  
Question -  Then is "jeev"  (embodied soul),  an exception to this talk ?  

IN HINDI 
समझना है
दो शब्दों ''सर्वव्यापी'' और ''अंश'' के निहितार्थ समझने हैं। 
प्रश्न है : सर्वव्यापी केवल परमात्मा है या कोई दूसरा भी सर्वव्यापी है?
अंश का अर्थ अंशीसे अलग अस्तित्व होना है क्या? 
प्रश्न है : क्या जीवका सर्वव्यापी परमात्मासे अलग अस्तित्व होता है?
स्वामीजीने कहा है : एक परमात्माके सिवाय कोई चीज कभी पैदा हुई ही नहीं!
प्रश्न है : फिर जीव क्या इस कथनका अपवाद है?

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it is like a cotton cloth pervades with all water when it becomes wet,
like the sugar dissolved in milk, goes side by side
god bless you
swamiji (Swami Krishnanand)
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Fellow learner,
All pervasive in English means that which pervades all over. Sarva Vyaapi is the one who spreds everywhere. The two have subtle difference. Sarva Vyaaptitava or the capaxcity to become sarva Vyaapi is a charcteristic of Parama Atma (Perhaps in your parlance God). The word VishNu literally means "the one who is Sarva Vyaapi" (Visvam VishNuH)> Parama atma's potential is also spread all over the universe; But potential is different from the one who possesses that potential. Thus Sarva VyaAptiva, though is an attribute of Parama Atma it is by itself not Paramaatma.
Ansh (correct is AMSa) is a ray and not a fraction of the whole. Ray emanates from the source and is different from the source. Sun's ray is not Sun. Mama Eva AMSo jeeva bhootaH sanaatana etc imply that all the beings including Jada and Ajada etc are the net resultant of a ray of mine. It does in no way conveys that all the beings are part of Parama Atma. A ray after emanating from the source becomes another entity other than the source. PLease refer to 10.42 of Bhagavat Gita.
Jeeva (not Jeev) is an Atma entrapped in a physical body. That is right. As we observed in the llast para, Jeev is not a Part of PA. Contributing to th etheory that Param aAtma subdued by nescience (Adnyaaana) becomes Atma is untenable as Parama Atma is Dnyaana and hence cannot be devoured by ignorance. Hence, Jeeva has its own existence. By MokSha or Mukti or release one should understand a state in which the Jeeva recognizes that it is not the body of Prakriti but is far superior to Prakriti and hence should not be bound  and affected by Prakriti originating Sukhs and Duhkha. and its sole existence is to be liege of ParamaAtma.
Hope I could clear your doubt. thank you for giving me this opportunity
Krishna   Samudrala

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Ansh is a part of the whole caught due to Maya in space and time. As the grip of Maya decreases by practicing Bhagwad Geeta and reaching a point of 'Karishye Vachanam Tava', Ansh because it has same properties as Sarvansh gets merged into eternal like a drop of pure water mixes with large quantity of water of a pure lake. Here consciousness expands gradually to touch more and more persons with instrument of Unconditioned love as depicted in Shrimad Bhagwat. Krishna consciousness is nothing but expanded consciousness beyond space and time.
Jayantilal Shah

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Dear All,

Sri VedavyAsa has written specifically amshAdhikaraNa in the brahma-sootras.

It is incorrect to translate ansh as fraction.     WHy ?  because fractions do add up to make the whole.

No where in the Veda/geetA/sootras  it says  "God is actually a totality of all humans"   that is why  amsh is not fraction.

"atO amshatvamuddishTam bhEdAbhEdou na mukhyataha"

vedAnta  essentially is what is taught by Sri VedavyAsa.  

THere can't be two sarva-vyApIs.   "vishLru vyAptou"  -  by definition   Veda calls that principle as VishNu.  


Regards,
Jay N.

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Ans: From Upnashids & Vivekachudamani. Only GOD said to be Appremeyam (cannot be seen), Aroopam (without form), Aksharam (sound) Niskaranam (Karma not binding) etc. On earth in prakurthi, Maya also all pervasive.
Question - Does "Ansh" (fraction) means one who has a separate existence from the "anshi"  (whole) ?  
Ans: From Sastras & scripts- Jeeva has separate existence from Para Athuma until realization.
Swamiji says - Besides the one Supreme Consciousness (Paramatma),  nothing whatsoever has been born !  
Question -  Then is "jeev"  (embodied soul),  an exception to this talk ?
Ans: From Sri Vishnu Puran: Sri Krishna and Balarama was born from the 2 hairs of Sri Vishnu.  
 B.S
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