Wednesday, June 18, 2014

[gita-talk] Enthusiasm towards Worldly Activities - सांसारिक कर्मों के प्रति उत्साह !

 

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यह जानने और समझने के बाद कि संसार में सब कुछ कितना अस्थायी और क्षणिक है , किसी भी कर्म के प्रति उत्साह का संचार कैसे  किया जाए ?

सांसारिक कर्मों के प्रति उत्साह जगाने का मार्ग क्या है  ?

क्या ऐसे कर्मों के प्रति उत्साह  संभव भी है ?
और उससे पहले क्या ऐसे कर्मों के प्रति उत्साह उचित है ?

आपके उत्साह की कमी आपके आस पास वालों  और प्रियजनों को  भी प्रभावित करती है 
जो शायद ठीक नहीं 

तो उचित क्या है ?

vetaal   

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[gita-talk] Are you doing the Saadhan, or is it happening on its own ? In Essence, what does Swamiji mean ?

 


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2.  All responses will not be posted. Responses that conflict with scriptures and Swamiji's writings will not be posted.
3. Sadhaks are encouraged to quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.
4. Sadhaks must be RESPECTFUL of all Sadhaks and must limit personal feelings,
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===========================

स्वामीजीका कथन : ''जो साधन अपने-आप होता है, वह असली होता है और जो साधन किया जाता है, वह नकली होता है।'' समझना है। 
साधक जानना चाहता है : यह कैसे पता हो कि साधन 'किया जा रहा है' या 'अपने-आप हो रहा है'?
यह जिज्ञासा इसलिये उपजी क्योंकि लोग अकसर कहते हैं : पूजा-पाठ करो, भजन-कीर्तन करो,स्वाध्याय करो, आसान-ध्यान करो आदि, ना कि  
पूजा-पाठ हो, भजन-कीर्तन हो, स्वाध्याय हो, आसान-ध्यान हो, आदि। 
कृपया समझायें कि स्वामीजीने वस्तुत: क्या कहा है? कैसे स्पष्ट हो कि साधन अपने-आप हो रहा है या साधन किया जा रहा है? [यह स्पष्ट है कि होनेकी क्रिया दोनों स्थितियोंमें हो रही है। ] ''अपने आप होता है'' से स्वामीजीका क्या अभिप्राय है?
सविनय,
साधक 
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हरि ओम

प्रश्न है - कैसे स्पष्ट हो ?-  "करना" और "अपने आप होना" । मेरा प्रश्न है -  किसको स्पष्ट हो ? यदि साधक को कैसे स्पष्ट हो, यह प्रश्न है तो उसमें कर्तृत्व का अभाव आ जाता है । स्वयं की नीयत तो स्वयं को स्पष्ट होती ही है । आपका भाव क्या है, यह स्वयं आसानी से जान सकता है , कोई दूसरा कैसे जानेगा, क्यों जानेगा ? करने में कर्तृत्व भाव आजाता है, लेकिन होने में नहीं । जैसे, आपने यह निश्चय नहीं किया कि " मैं भलाई करूँगा" बल्कि यह निश्चय किया कि " मैं बुराई नहीं करूँगा" - तो अब आप भलाई कर नहीं रहे , भलाई " हो रही है" । अभिमान भी नहीं, स्वत: भलाई होगी - क्योंकि जब आप बुरा नहीं करेंगे तो जो भी होगा भला ही होगा ! या तो आप कुछ नहीं करेंगे या जो भी करेंगे भला करेंगे , लेकिन आपका भाव " मैं बुरा नहीं करूँगा" , यही बना रहेगा , तो कर्तृत्व भाव भलाई करने में आयेगा ही वहीं, स्वत: स्वाभाविक भलाई होगी ! 

जय श्री कृष्णा

व्यास एन बी 


=========================================

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[gita-talk] Seeking to Understand meaning of "om purnam adah purnam idam"

 

I wish to understand  the secret of - When an aspirant narrates  -  om purnam adah purnam idam .... which means that everything is complete and perfect.    What does the word "everything"  and its meaning represent?  all things?  all thoughts?   what all ?  or whatever it may be,  that  all ?  Then 'everything' means that only which cannot be described, but is being done here as 'complete and perfect'

Humbly
Sadhak

HINDI

साधक कथन om purnan adah purnam idam .... which means that everything is complete and perfect का मर्म समझना चाहता है। everything शब्द को किस अर्थमें लिया जाय? सब वस्तुयें? सब क्रियायें? सब विचार? सब क्या-क्या? या जो भी हो वह सब कुछ? फिर तो everything का अर्थ वही हुआ जिसका वर्णन नहीं हो सकता पर किया जा रहा है कि वह complete and perfect है। 
सविनय,
साधक 

===================================================

Entire Mantra in Isha Upanishad is:

Aum Purnam Adaha, Purnam Idam, Purnat Purnam Udachayate,
Purnasya Purnam Adaya, Purnam Eva Avatishthte. 

Context in which word Purna  which translates as 'Whole" means un-fragmented, refers to Cosmic Consciousness. It pervades the entire Universe and is Infinite. We are also part of that whole but not fragmented. Just as you take a drop of water from huge lake of pure water, 
that drop is as perfect as large quantity of water in the lake. This metaphor is used in this Mantra that Cosmic Consciousness outside is whole and so also this consciousness within me is also whole. Only my whole can be connected with that Infinite whole, by opening of Brahma-Randhra. When that happens, my whole drop becomes a part of Infinite consciousness, and that is the way of my finite whole to be infinite whole.

Second line of this Mantra describes the characteristic of this Infinite, that even if infinite number of finite souls can draw from this consciousness , even then Infinite consciousness remains Infinite only. It does not decrease. For further understanding, read Isha Upanishad with translation available from Ram-Krishna Mission Khar. May be Sanyasis there will help you with better clarification on this important Mantra.

Jayantilal Shah

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बड़े भैया, everything तो मूल प्रश्नकर्ताने प्रयुक्त किया है [जिसके कथनको उद्धृत क्या है शुद्ध अंग्रेजीमें ] 
और साधक उस everything शब्दको ही समझना चाहता है। 
सविनय,
साधक 

स्वामी श्रीकृष्णानन्दजी, साधकके पास तो उसका अपना कोई day नहीं है। आप शायद solar day की बात कह रहे हैं जो साधकका नहीं है। 
उद्धृत कथनमें प्रयुक्त शब्द everything का अर्थ पूछ था उसका उत्तर तो आपने दिया नहीं। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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very simple

om poornamada poornamida pooranat poornamudachayate poornasya poorna
madaya poorna mevava shishyate

this universe made of so many things will be incomplete with out one
another, the sun, the moon, the earth, fire, water,air, celestial,
stars.

i wonder why people are sadhakas are so much worried, is your day
complete with out doing a thing you are doing life long it will be
apoorna

when you dont pray it will be apoorna, if you dont take care of this
body temple it is apoorna, the breathing system the prana vayu being
inhaled and exhaled 21600 times in 24 hours, the blood circulation,
the heart, lungs, kidney,pancreas, liver, brain, cells working 24 x 7
will not be poorna if we meet with an accident the system will be
disturbed and it takes 21 days or 90 days to become poorna .again.

i humbly appeal all the sadhakas not to worry to know the how and why
of it but with full with keep on chanting as i had explained earlier
MARA being chanted will become RAMA mara means a tree in kannada for
the mundane it is difficult or sounds dull and insipid the name of
rama with all the dirty attractions but unfortunately even
vrukshadevata namah is no attraction they are cutting and their
attraction is flashy buidlings and concrete jungle destroying the
ecology

sorry i have dewelled little out of the track

god bless you
swamiji (Krishnanandji) 


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Dear Sadhak,


> I wish to understand  the secret of - When an aspirant narrates  -  om purnam adah purnam idam >.... which means that everything is complete and perfect.    What does the word "everything"  and >its meaning represent?  all things?  all thoughts?   what all ?  or whatever it may be,  that  all ? 
> Then 'everything' means that only which cannot be described, but is being done here as 'complete > and perfect'

As you know, "poorNamadah poorNamidam..."   is yajurvEda shAnti mantra.

PoorNam means Complete.   What does Completeness mean ?.  It simply means that  you can not add anything more to it.
adhaha means 'That'  
'idam'  means 'This'

Most people translate it as "Everything is Complete".   It is quite wrong.    If  this world itself was Complete
then we would not be in need of Veda at all,  and as a consequence there would be no need for God either.
Obviously,   Why would yajurveda shanti-mantra teach such things, anyways ?.

Veda calls God, The Creator of this Universe as PoorNa.   He is PoorNa  ( another name for It is Vishwa ).
Hence the word should not applied to the created world at all.

God in His Original form is PoorNa. (PoorNamadah)    God in an incarnation Form is still Complete ( poorNamidam ).   

I hope it helps.

Jay Nelamangala

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हरि ओम

साधकजी महाराज । आप ये everything कहाँ से ले आये ? पूर्णमद: पूर्णमिदं - इसमें everything कहाँ से टपक गया ? "यह" - इदम् - ! "सर्वम्" तो शब्द ही नहीं है श्लोक में, तो आप everything कहाँ से ले आये ? "पूर्ण सर्वम्" लिखा है क्या ? क्यों श्लोकों से तोड़ फोड़ करते हैं आप ? जीव पूर्ण है, जगत् पूर्णँ है,परमात्मा पूर्ण है- पूर्ण में से पूर्ण निकलता है, फिर भी पूर्ण बाक़ी रहता है । इसमें वर्णनातीत की बात ही कहाँ है ? प्रकृति यदि complete and perfect है, स्वयं भी पूर्ण और परफेक्ट है तो इसमें आपको क्या ऐतराज़ है? आपका प्रकृति से संबध imperfect है - यह बात मूल है ! प्रकृति अपने हिसाब से परफेक्ट है, आपके हिसाब से नहीं । जगत् प्रवाह रूप से अव्यय है, लेकिन आपके के लिये विनाशी है । भगवान् की शक्ति होने के कारण जगत् सत् है, आपकी साधना के हिसाब से सत् नहीं ! आपको जगत् से संबंध - विच्छेद करना है - चाहे जगत् सत् हे, असत् हो, वासुदेव हो, शुभ हो, अशुभ हो, भगवान् का बनाया हो, या प्रकृति का बनाया हो ! आपका जगत् से संबंध असत् है - यह निस्सन्देह बात है - फिर क्यों माथा-पच्ची करते हैं ? 

जय श्री कृष्णा

व्यास एन बी 

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Thursday, June 12, 2014

[gita-talk] The Bhagavad Gita - Daily Message - 15 /16

 

||   Shree Hari   ||

Fifteenth Chapter

||   15 / 16  ||


dvāvimau puruṣau loke kṣaraścākṣara eva ca

kṣaraḥ sarvāṇi bhūtāni kūṭastho'kṣara ucyate

There are two kinds of Puruṣas in the world, the Kshara (perishable) and the 

Akshara (imperishable). The bodies of all beings are said to be perishable and 

the 'Kutusthah' (Jīvatma or soul) is called the imperishable. 

First in the sixth verse and then from the twelfth verse to the fifteenth verse, the 

Lord described that the independent existence is of Divine entity (Tatva) only and not 

of the worldly entity. The existence of worldly entity is due to Divine entity only. The 

worldly entity is illumined by the divine entity only. Whatever influence is perceived in 

the worldly entity, all of that is due to divine entity only. Now in the sixteenth verse the 

Lord by the term 'loke' describes the 'worldly entity'.

The universe (perishable) and the soul (imperishable)— both are 'Laukika' 

(worldly)— but God is distinctly different from both or 'Alaukika' (uniquely divine)-

- 'uttamaḥ puruṣastvanyaḥ' (Gītā 15/17). Karmayoga and Jñānayoga— these two 

yoga disciplines are also worldly— 'loke'smindvividhāniṣṭha..........' (Gītā 3/3). The 

basis for 'Karmayoga' is 'Kshara' and of 'Jñānayoga' it is Akshara; but 'Bhaktiyoga' 

is 'Alaukika' (unworldly or Divine), the basis for which is God. The 'Aparā Prakṛti' (lower 

nature) and the 'Parā Prakṛti' (higher nature) described in the seventh chapter have 

been called here as 'Kṣhara' and 'Akshara' respectively.

From Gita Prabodhani in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji  

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[gita-talk] Is Jeev, Soul Separate from the All Pervading Paramatma?

 


In recent Gita Talk discussion -   Advaita or Monism still leaves some doubts. 

But still, there some differences which are irreconcilable or insurmountable for Self.
Is the Soul and Jeev one ?   If not, then are they two apart (different) from Paramatma?  If apart, then Paramatma is not all pervading,  if Paramatma is perfectly present in soul and jeev, then how the three can be "bhinna" (diverse and separable)?   
Where it has been said "Mamaivaansho jeevaloke"  there where it has been said in Gita (please identify the shloka) where "ansh" has been separated?   and "ansh" is not complete and filled with Paramatma.  Please identify the shloka.  

Is the all pervasive Paramatma divisible?  Can He be divisible?   In which scripture is it said so?   
One can only divide that thing which is not all pervasive.   Every "ansh"  of Paramatma (from perspective of seeing)  if it is not pervaded by Paramatma, then how can Paramatma be all pervasive?  

Humbly,   
Sadhak 


क्या soul और जीव एक हैं? यदि नहीं तो क्या दोनों परमात्मासे भिन्न हैं? यदि भिन्न हैं, तो परमात्मा सर्वव्यापी नहीं है क्योंकि soul और जीव उससे परिपूर्ण नहीं हैं। यदि परमात्मा soul और जीव, दोनोंमें परिपूर्ण है, तो तीनों भिन्न कैसे होंगे?
जहाँ कहा गया,''ममैवांशो जीवलोके'' वहाँ (गीतामें) कहाँ कहा गया है (कृपया श्लोक बतायें) कि ''अंश'' अलग किया गया है? और अंश परमात्मासे परिपूर्ण नहीं है? कृपया श्लोक अवश्य बतायें। 
सर्वव्यापी परमात्मा क्या विभाज्य है? क्या सर्वव्यापी परमात्मा विभाज्य हो सकता है? यह किस Scripture में बताया है?
विभाजन तो उसीका किया जा सकता है जो सर्वव्यापी नहीं हो। 
सर्वव्यापी परमात्माका प्रत्येक अंश (देखनेकी दृष्टिसे) परमात्मासे परिपूर्ण नहीं हो तो परमात्मा सर्वव्यापी ही कहाँ रहा?
सविनय,
साधक 

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atma and paramatma are one like the sugar dissolved in milk

Swami Krishnanand 

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बड़े भैया, आपने सार बात कह दी कि Drista Satya hai Drashya Asatya hai (Yog Vasisth), is vichaar se jo discussion hum yaha kar rahe hai vo bhi asatya hai. 
आपके निष्कर्षके अनुसार हम सब गीता-वार्तामें असत्य वार्तामें रत हैं। लेकिन यह सब असत्य होते हुये भी परमात्मासे पूर्णत: (ठसाठस) परिपूर्ण है और उतना ही महत्त्वपूर्ण है जितना कि परमात्मा महत्त्वपूर्ण है। 
समझ अपनी-अपनी। 
अस्तु। 
सविनय, 
साधक 

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Hari Om

An excellent message from Sadhak Japesh ! My compliments ! You are right. His  "BAHIRANGA" creation is not SACCHIDANAND , BALANCE TWO ARE . Jeeva is in between. He has power to accept/ attach/connect/ form affinity. Jeeva forms affinity with "BAHIRANGA" and suffers. The moment it decides to disconnect, he and Paramatma become identical and thereafter LOVE flows. They are ONE , still TWO ; they are TWO, still ONE. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 
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Krishna Hari,

Those who are not realised soul will Always have some or the other questions.

अगला प्रश्न है कि जीव उसमें फँसा कैसे ? उत्तर है - विवेक का अनादर करके । वैसे इससे क्या फ़र्क पड़ता है कि कैसे फँसा और कब फँसा ? अभी फँसा हुआ है ना ? तो अब क्या करे , यह सवाल उठना चाहिये ! फ़र्क पड़ता बो तो बताओ कि क्या, कैसे और कहाँ फ़र्क पड़ता है । 


Fark padta hai...Agar sahi karan na pata ho to Jeev dubara bhi fas sakta hai. Vivek ka anadar dubara bhi ho sakta hai.
Jaise kuch logo se 1 hi galti kai baar ho jaati hai. Aise log kaise nikle.


आप पहले मुक्ति पाइये तो सही , फिर पता पड़ जायेगा कि वापिस फँसोगे कि नहीं । बन्धन में बैठे हुए ये सोच रहे हो कि मुक्ति के बाद फिर फँस जाऊँगा तो क्या होगा ? पहले मुक्त तो होइये । आप वापिस नहीं फँसेंगे । एक बार मुक्त हो गया तो हो ही गया । एक बार घर पहुँच गये तो पहुँच ही गये । घर पहुँचने के बाद सफ़र बाक़ी रहता है क्या ? मुक्त होने के बाद बंधन नहीं होगा । मालूम पड़ जाये कि लड्डू में ज़हर है, तो फिर खाओगे क्या ? 

I met people who have asked this question to me (No guarantee of Mukti even we do Jap/Sadhna etc..) and i answer the same to them..But Still they do not agree. So if you have some logical answer jo bandhan mai pade logo ko samajh mai aa sake to badi kripa hogi.. 
[Laddu mai jahar hai to Laddu nahi khayega jeev Agreed., Par koi doosra Laddu mil jaye jo dikhne mai kisi or tarah ka ho to jeev fir soochega ki sayad is laddu mai jahar nahi hoga chalo kha kar dekhte hai or jeev fir fas jaata hai]



Prashant Bhatia

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Dear sAdhak,

Namaste.

>   In recent Gita Talk discussion -   Advaita or Monism still leaves some doubts. 

Advaita vedAnta divides God into saguNa and nirguNa.   Advatia vedAnta divides Veda into karma-kAnDa and jnyAna-kAnDa.   Advaita vedAnta divides Truth into vyAvahArika and pAramArthika.
With so much dualism taught all over the place,  I am not sure why you want to call such a vedAnta as Monism ?.

> But still, there some differences which are irreconcilable or insurmountable for Self.   Is the Soul and Jeev one ?   If not, then are they two apart (different) from Paramatma?  If apart, then Paramatma > is not all pervading,  if Paramatma is perfectly present in soul and jeev, then how the three can be "bhinna" (diverse and separable)?   

The problem with your approach is that it is missing Veda.   ParamAtma ( or brahman ) is a  purely Vedic Concept.   So, to  talk about Brahman without  talking Veda first,  is similar to talking about green color without eye-sight.   So,  instead of talking about Brahman first,  let us talk about Veda first.   If  Veda teaches that jeevAtman and paramAtman are different, so be it.   If Veda teaches that
jeevAtman and paramAtman are not different,  then so be it.    In either case,  the point here is that,   Veda is the pramANa for God and anything related to God.

On a side note,   the fact that we started from advaita vedAnta and talked  about God,   that itself shows that something is missing.      God of Veda never misses anything.  "yah sarvajnya sarvavit...."
of the munDakOpanishat should have clarified this point, if we had started with Veda.     For this simple reason,  Vedic Brahman on one hand,  and  people who are asking questions on God without studying Veda first,  how can they be identical ?.   You tell me.


>   Where it has been said "Mamaivaansho jeevaloke"  there where it has been said in Gita (please identify the shloka) where "ansh" has been separated?   and "ansh" is not complete and filled with >  Paramatma.  Please identify the shloka.  

Sri VedavyAsa, the author of geetA,  also gave us  'brahma-sootras".    There is an adhikaraNa called  amshAdhikaraNa,  clarifying on this point.     Don't you think we need to study that first ?.


> Is the all pervasive Paramatma divisible?  Can He be divisible?   In which scripture is it said so?   
> One can only divide that thing which is not all pervasive.   Every "ansh"  of Paramatma (from perspective of seeing)  if it is not pervaded by Paramatma, then how can Paramatma be all pervasive?  
> Humbly,   
> Sadhak 

Again ParamAtma is a Vedic Concept.   So, we should leave it to Veda to teach it.

Space is all pervasive.   A pot divides that space into space-inside-the-pot  and space-outside-the-pot.   

Regards,
Jay Nelamanga

Jay ji,   

In future,  please be BRIEF !!!! Thank you,  
Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram  

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Further clarification on my question:

Is "atma" (devoid of any sort of illusion of affinity of self with matter) and "parmatma" one or different?

I have been involved with Iskcon and they are quite clear. They say that "atma" can never become one with "parmatma" and "atma" will always remain servant of "parmatma".  "Atma" can never become one with "parmatma". They accept qualitative oneness with parmatma but not total oneness. They consider those who consider atma and parmatma as same as mayavadis and consider them worse than atheist. 

Can someone explain whether Swami Ramsukhdasji considered "atma" (devoid of affinity to matter) and "parmatma" as one? Did he accept that "atma" and "parmatma" will always remain different and "atma" will always service "parmatma"?


Regards,
Murari Das

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My question is -- 

Are "atma" and "paramatma" one or different?


Regards,
Murari Das


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Excellent observation to mediate and question to meditate upon!!!

Thanks.
Naga Narayana.

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There is only one entity in existence. Call it Bhagavan, call it paramatma or call it Brahman. It is sat-chit-anand (is eternally existing, is full of all knowledge and is absolutely blissful). Anything that exists belongs to Him. He is eternally endowed with infinite potencies, which can be grouped into three types - bahirangaa, tatasthaa and antarangaa.

1) His bahirangaa shakti manifests itself as the material creation. It is not saccidananda. It is trigunatmak (made of sattva, rajas and tamas) and is also called maya shakti.
2) His tatasthaa shakti manifests itself as the infinite number of jivatmas, each having a distinct conscious awareness. These are saccidanand by nature but are subject to being attached to maya shakti (bahiranga shakti) or to antarangaa shakti.
3) His antaranga shakti manifests itself as His own abode (Vaikuntha dhaam), His form (saccidananda form) etc. It is saccidanand by nature.

Jivatma is called tatastha shakti (lit. situated on the shore) because it has the nature of being attached to either bahiranga shakti or antaranga shakti. If it is attached to bahiranga shakti, it keeps taking birth in the material world. If it is attached to antaranga shakti, it is in a liberated state and remains eternally with Bhagavan in His abode (Vaikuntha). A liberated atma never gets attached to maya.

Thus the jiva is same as paramatma because both are saccidananda. However, jiva is eternally an infintisimal part of Bhagavan and its identity remains eternally distinct from Him - whether in bound state or in liberated state.

God is eternally existing along with these shaktis, but the existence of the shaktis depend on His existence. He alone exists independent of anything else. 

Hari Om!

-Japesh

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हरि ओम

मोडरेटर्स के आदेशानुसार , मैं हिन्दी में और अंग्रेज़ी में , कई बार पूछे गये प्रश्न का उत्तर देता हूँ । 

Jeev apni alag satta hi maanta hai maya ke prabhav se...Par jeev us mai fasa kaise ye prashn kai sadjko ka hai.
Drista Satya hai Drashya Asatya hai (Yog Vasisth), is vichaar se jo discussion hum  yaha kar rahe hai vo bhi asatya hai.

पहली बात - जीव अपनी अलग सत्ता माया के प्रभाव से नहीं डालता । यह आपने कहाँ सुना और पढ़ा है कि माया का जीव के "मानने या नहीं मानने" के स्वतंत्र अधिकार पर कोई नियंत्रण है ? ऐसा नहीं है । जीव अपने विवेक का अनादर करता है । माया कभी किसी को नहीं फँसाती, जीव ख़ुद भगवान् की माया को अपनी और अपने लिये मान कर फँसता है । इसमें माया क्या करेगी ? कोई आग में हाथ डालेगा तो हाथ जलेगा ,  इसमें अग्नि क्या करेगी ? 

अगला प्रश्न है कि जीव उसमें फँसा कैसे ? उत्तर है - विवेक का अनादर करके । वैसे इससे क्या फ़र्क पड़ता है कि कैसे फँसा और कब फँसा ? अभी फँसा हुआ है ना ? तो अब क्या करे , यह सवाल उठना चाहिये ! फ़र्क पड़ता बो तो बताओ कि क्या, कैसे और कहाँ फ़र्क पड़ता है । 

जो डिस्कशन हम यहाँ कर रहे हैं, वह "सत्" है या " असत् " , कुछ भी हो - कहाँ और क्या फ़र्क पड़ता है, बताईये । डिस्कशन सत् हो या असत्- डिस्कशन करने वाले अर्थात् - हम सत् हैं और चूँकि हम सत् हैं, यदि हम असत् को पकड़ लें तो असत् भी सत् दीखने लग जाता है । जैसे, अग्नि में कुछ भी डालो, चाहे काला कोयला डालो, जो डालोगे वह लाल हो जाता है , अग्नि रूप हो जाता है ! यदि आपको लगता है कि कुछ असत् है, चाहे डिस्कशन चाहे और कुछ, तो जिसको लगता है वह स्वयं तो सत् हो ही गया । अगर डिस्कशन करने वाले सत् हैं , टोपिक भी सत् की खोज है तो असत् कहाँ हुआ ? आप योग वशिष्ठ में माथा खपाने की बजाय पहले गीता पढंें , बाद में योग वशिष्ठ समझ में आ जायेगी । ये बात अलग है कि गीता पढ़ने के बाद और कुछ पढ़ने की आवश्यकता ही नहीं रहेगी । 


Samasya kya hai apne aapko Jeev man lena ?,mana ki kisi sadhka ne maan liya ki vo aatma hi hai or ye sab jo chal raha hai vo sab sapna hai. Mana ki sadhak ne sukhi/dukhi hona bhi chod diya or paristhiti anusaar karm karne laga paridaam ki chinta kiye bina..
Aise sadhak ke liya baaki kya bacha..?

अपने आपको जीव मान लेना - ये समस्या है क्या ? ये समस्या किसकी है ? अपने आप को जीव क्यों मानता है ? जो मानता है, उसीको मान्यता छोड़नी पड़ेगी , दूसरा कैसे छुड़ा देगा ? समस्या बनाई किसने हैं ? जिसने बनाई है वो मिटा भी सकता है , कौन रोकता है ? भगवान् की माया तो निश्चित रूप से नहीं रोकती , तो फिर कौन रोकता है ? समस्या है कहाँ ? समस्या स्वयं की ही उपज है, बाहर की या संसार की  उपज नहीं है । समस्या तो वह कहलाती है जो बाहर से आई हो, बाहरी परिस्थिति , घटना आदि हो , यहाँ समस्या क्या है? असत् को सत् माना है, उसको सत्ता महत्ता दी है, असत् से राग कर लिया है - ये समस्या है । तो मत करो, असत् को सत्ता, महत्ता मत दो, कौन रोकता है ? जाने हुए असत् का त्याग ही तो करना है, इसमें क्या बड़ी बात है ? समस्या क्या है ? समस्या है, संसार के भोग अच्छे लगते हैं, और जब अच्छे लगते हैं तो यह भूल जाते हैं कि यह को असत् है, सत् नहीं है , असत् को सत् मान लेते हैं ! तो मन मानो ...! ये समस्या का समाधान है । इसमें बेचारी माया करेगी ?

ये जो आप कह रहे हो कि आपने मान लिया कि आत्मा है, संसार स्वप्न है, अादि....भाई साहेब ....माफ़ कीजियेगा, अभी तक....माना नहीं है, जाना है । किताबी ज्ञान लिया है, अनुभव नहीं किया । सुना है, पढा है, समझा नहीं है । यदि आपने मान लिया कि सब स्वप्न है, सब मिथ्या है, तो फिर इसमें सुख क्यों ढूँढ रहे हो ? क्यों पता लगाने की कोशिश कर रहे हो कि जगत् सत् है कि असत् ? क्यों प्रश्न पूछ रहे हो ? मानने के बाद "समस्या" कैसे आ सकती है । तो माना नहीं है, किताबी ज्ञान लिया है । मान तो संसार को ही अभी तक सत् ही रहे हो । बुद्धि लगाकर स्वयं के बारे में और जगत् के बारे में जानना चाहते हो । मान कहाँ रहे हो ? आपने माना नहीं है । संसार को असत् मानने के बाद बाक़ी क्या रहता है ? कौन सी समस्या बाक़ी रह सकती है ? समस्या ही संसार है, संसार ही समस्या है - जब संसार रो असत् मान लिया तो फिर कोई समस्या बाक़ी नहीं रह सकती । तो भैया, माना नहीं है ।

सुखी-दु:खी होना छोड़ दिया । बढिया किया , लेकिन अगर छोड़ दिया तो अभी याद क्यों आ रही है ? वैसे सुखी- दु:खी होना छोड़ा नहीं जाता, छूट जाता है । जब संसार को असत् मान लेते हैं ना, तो सुख-दु:ख की ़ जड़ ही कट जाती है । त्याग का अभिमान , उसकी याद - असत्  से संबंध बनाये रखती है । असत् से संबंध ! संबंध है तो फिर माना कहाँ ? 



Kya mukti paakar sadhak dubara is maya jaal mai nahi fasega? Nahi fasega to ku nahi fasega. Kabhi to pahli baar fasa hoga tabhi jeev astitav mai aya. to dubara bhi aa sakta hai.

आप पहले मुक्ति पाइये तो सही , फिर पता पड़ जायेगा कि वापिस फँसोगे कि नहीं । बन्धन में बैठे हुए ये सोच रहे हो कि मुक्ति के बाद फिर फँस जाऊँगा तो क्या होगा ? पहले मुक्त तो होइये । आप वापिस नहीं फँसेंगे । एक बार मुक्त हो गया तो हो ही गया । एक बार घर पहुँच गये तो पहुँच ही गये । घर पहुँचने के बाद सफ़र बाक़ी रहता है क्या ? मुक्त होने के बाद बंधन नहीं होगा । मालूम पड़ जाये कि लड्डू में ज़हर है, तो फिर खाओगे क्या ? 

जय श्री कृष्णा

व्यास एन बी 

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Parama Atma is ominipresent or all pervasive. everything including cEta, jada and ajada are parts or attributes of Parama Aatma. Just as your little finger and the nail on it are parts of your body so are Atma (soul or Jeev, as you say) are parts of Parama Atma. Your little finger is yours but is it You? Similarly, all Atmas are His but none of them can be his. Your children have some features of yours; but they cannot be you. Another example or DriShTaanta is: As for fish it is pervaded by water, fish is born in water, grows in it and dies in it and merges with water. But can we say that fish is water?
Amsha means ray which carries energy or chetana (from the source of light or heat etc.) Mama Eva amsho jeeva bhootaH sanaaatana ha sto be properly assimilated. The energy that is required for the huge work of creation of beings is drawn through a ray emanating from the single source that Parama Atma is. This never wasmeant to convey that Atma and Parama Atma are the same or any such fantasy as in Advaita. Simple logic is how the all powerful Parama atma can be subjugated to avidya or adnyaana and take the forms of Atmas?
sv krishna  
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|| Shree Swami Samarth ||

Dear Sadhak,

1. The Jeev itself is soul and there is no difference in Soul & Jeev. 

Now, see how the Soul or Jeev is ansh of Paramatma. Paramatma is all pervading. It iis present in everybody's heart along with Jeev (Geeta 15.15). (Some Acharyas say Soul is Paramatma only & because of illusion or Maya, it does not realizes its original form while others say existence of Soul is there along with Paramatma seperately but qualitatively both are Sat-Chid-Anand swarup). 

Jeev is ansha of Paramatma so qualitatively there is no difference in them, ex. Water is water in vapour or ice state or the sparks of fire are not different than fire. So Jeev is not different from Paramatma. (In absolute state Soul/Jeev is Brahma & Paramatma is also Brahma but with having Shakti)


२. "Where it has been said "Mamaivaansho jeevaloke"  there where it has been said in Gita" - 
In Bhagavad Geeta 15th Chapter 7th Shloka - 
ममैव अंशो जीवलोके जीवभुत सनातनः।
मनः षष्ठानी ईन्द्रियाणि प्रकृतिस्थानि कर्षती ॥ भ. गीता १५.७


३. Is the all pervasive Paramatma divisible?  Can He be divisible?   In which scripture is it said so? One can only divide that thing which is not all pervasive.   Every "ansh"  of Paramatma (from perspective of seeing)  if it is not pervaded by Paramatma, then how can Paramatma be all pervasive?  

Paramatma is not divisible. Ekam, anantam Brahmam.... 
पूर्णमदः पूर्णमिदम् पूर्णात् पूर्ण मुदच्यते।
पूर्णस्य पूर्णमादाय पूर्णमेवावशिष्यते ॥

All Upanishads & scriptures say that Brahma / Paramatma is all pervading, omniscient, omnipotent. Paramatma is not divisible. As said earlier, Jeev is ansha of Paramatma, so it is pervaded by Paramatma only. Paramatma is not conceivable through senses. That is why we can not completely understand all qualities just by our limited senses or understanding. Anantam can not be descibed with Saant words.


Love,
Nishikant Pathak

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HINDI
हरि ओम

सर्वप्रथम तो यह नोट करें कि जैसे स्कूल या कोलेज में पढ़ाई होती है और जैसे वहाँ कि पढ़ाई एक बुद्धि का विषय होता है, वैसे यह आध्यात्मिक विद्या, ब्रह्म इत्यादि कोई बुद्धि का विषय नहीं है ! स्वयं को स्वयं के द्वारा ही समझा और जाना जा सकता है, बुद्धि और बुद्धि के विकार तर्क के द्वारा नहीं । आप तर्क बहुत ज़्यादा करते हैं !  अगर आप गंभीर व्यक्ति हैं, तो शान्ति से बात को समझने का प्रयत्न करें । यहाँ कोई छिछोरेपन से समझ नहीं सकता । 

आपका पहला प्रश्न हैं - क्या soul और जीव एक हैं ! आपका एकता का क्या अर्थ समझते हैं ?  जीव में चेतन अंश भी है और जड़ अंश भी हैं ! जिसे आप आत्मा कहते हैं, वह चेतन अंश है । जब यह आत्मा , अपने स्वीकार या अस्वीकार करने की एकमात्र योग्यता को प्रयोग करके, जड़ शरीर-संसार से तादात्म्य कर लेता है, तो इसकी " जीव" संज्ञा हो जाती है । " अहम्" जीवात्मा का द्योतक हैं । इसमें एक चेतन अंश है ( आत्मा) और एक जड़ अंश है । अगर " अहम् " न हो, अर्थात् शरीर- संसार के साथ तादात्म्य न हो, तो जीव संज्ञा नहीं रहती, शुद्ध ब्रह्म रह जाता है , जिसे आप "आत्मा " शब्द से समझते हैं । जड़ और चेतन के मिलन को ही " अहम्" , " चिज्जड़ग्रन्थि " , "जीव", "जीवात्मा" आदि कहा जाता है । 

आपका स्वरचित, विचित्र argument कि परमात्मा फिर सर्वव्यापी कैसे हैं, ....ये बात ही नहीं उठती जब आप को इस बात का ज्ञान होता है कि जीव में चेतन अंश भी रहता है । जैसा उपर बताया - जीव कहो या अहम् कहो या चिज्जड़ग्रन्थि कहो, चेतन अंश तो उसमें रहेगा ही, जब चेतन अंश रहेगा तो आपके प्रिय परमात्मा की सर्वव्यापकता रह गई ना ! आप चिन्ता न करें, आपके परमात्मा की सर्वव्यापकता कहीं भी भंग नहीं होती । जो कुछ तोड़फोड़ होती है, वह आपकी बुद्धि में ही होती है, विभाजन, विभाजित , विभाज्य ये सब बुद्धि के तर्क मात्र हैं, उससे परे नहीं ! जीव, जगदीश, यहाँ तक की मूल प्रकृति , ये सब बुद्धि से परे हैं, बुद्धि की परिधि में नहीं आते । प्रकृति भी नहीं आती तो परमेश्वर और उसका अंश जीव कैसे आयेगा ? इसलिये बुद्धि को कम प्रयोग में लायें, यह बदलती है, मित्र ! बदलने वाली चीज़ से, न बदलने वाले स्वयं को समझने का प्रयास न करें । विवेक का प्रयोग करें, विश्वास का प्रयोग करें ! 

जय श्री कृष्णा

व्यास एन बी 

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Dear Sadaks,
1) The water bubble contains air. The same air is also outside bubble. But to eyes it appears as bubble. So the Jeeva leaves the body and another bubble (rebirth) until NO vasanas. 2) If paramathuma wants to create, HE needs only a seed. But if human wants to make anything, he needs more quantity of raw material the his final product with wastage. This understanding alone can relieve one from rebirth. A nice message from Bible. Only Christ said on cross that, "Oh Father (Paramathuma) in heaven forgive those who did this to me". So Christ had NO atom of ego, vengeance, Mamakaram (mine & my body) etc, which gave him Austral body on 3rd day of his death, Smallest harm, disgrace or harm done to me, I first think, what my friend or relative done is nothing compared to Christ or Jada Bharatha. When we have slightest Ego, desire to reciprocate, hatred etc we are being born as bubbles. In fact I once requested this site Moderator, to allow me to make like minded people to form a group to learn from vast collection of mine in video and audio on our Hindu scripts. But that was NOT allowed, because it is MY- moderator site. This mine-ness only.is big block in spiritual progress. 
B.S.    . 

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Ram Ram,

This question has been asked many times by seekers in different formats.

Vyas N B ji has answered in the past but even though some doubts are still there.

I would request Vyas ji to explain this once again for the benifit of all Sadhaks VERY BRIEFLY

Jeev apni alag satta hi maanta hai maya ke prabhav se...Par jeev us mai fasa kaise ye prashn kai sadjko ka hai.
Drista Satya hai Drashya Asatya hai (Yog Vasisth), is vichaar se jo discussion hum  yaha kar rahe hai vo bhi asatya hai.

Samasya kya hai apne aapko Jeev man lena ?,mana ki kisi sadhka ne maan liya ki vo aatma hi hai or ye sab jo chal raha hai vo sab sapna hai. Mana ki sadhak ne sukhi/dukhi hona bhi chod diya or paristhiti anusaar karm karne laga paridaam ki chinta kiye bina..
Aise sadhak ke liya baaki kya bacha..?

Kya mukti paakar sadhak dubara is maya jaal mai nahi fasega? Nahi fasega to ku nahi fasega. Kabhi to pahli baar fasa hoga tabhi jeev astitav mai aya. to dubara bhi aa sakta hai.

Amit
Ram Ram
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