Sunday, May 25, 2014

[gita-talk] God's Will - भगवानकी मरजी

 

Swamiji's message :   "Have no will of your own.  Whatever are your wishes, blend these with God's will" 
Sadhak's Quest to Know :  Can any being,  do what he wishes, without the will (opposed to) of the Almighty God's will?  
If he can do his own will,  then  being (jeev) is proven to be more powerful than even God.   
May be Arjuna is not aware of this?   (see Gita 11/43)  
Therefore he called out to God as being One without a second and greatest of all (there is no one even like You,  then how can there arise a question of anyone being greater?) 
It is also understood that in Gita 2/47,  the rights that have been received to perform actions,  in that,  without God's will (opposition),  can one do according to his own will?  Have the provisions for this point been made or not?  
Even he who has not read the Gita says that without the will of God, not even a leaf can move.  
Now after  reading the Gita too,  the point is the same. 

Or else please share (Reference from Sadhak Sanjivani with page number etc).   

Humbly 
Sadhak


स्वामीजीका निर्देश है : ''अपनी कोई मरजी मत रखो। अपनी 
जो भी मरजी हो, उसे भगवानकी मरजीमें मिला दो।''
साधककी जिज्ञासा है : क्या कोई जीव सर्वशक्तिमान भगवानकी 
मरजीके बिना (विरुद्ध) अपनी मरजी चला सकता है? 
यदि चला सकता है तो फिर जीव सर्वशक्तिमान भगवानसे अधिक 
शक्तिवाला सिद्ध हुआ। शायद अर्जुनको इसका पता नहीं था। [ देखें 
गीता 11 : 43 ] तभी तो उसने भगवानको अद्वितीय और सबसे अधिक
(आपके बराबर भी कोई नहीं है तो अधिक होनेका प्रश्न ही नहीं) बताया था।  
यह भी समझना है कि गीता 2 : 47 में जो कर्म करनेका अधिकार मिला है, 
उसमें भगवानकी मरजीके बिना (विरुद्ध) अपनी मर्जीसे कर्म कर सकेगा, 
इस बातका प्रावधान किया गया है या नहीं? 
गीता न पढ़ा हुआ भी कहता है कि भगवानकी मरजीके बिना पत्ता तक नहीं हिलता। 
अब गीता पढ़कर भी बात वही है। नहीं हो तो बतायें। (साधक संजीवनीकी पृष्ठ संख्या अवश्य दें।) 
सविनय,
साधक 

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Entire Bhagwad-Geeta  reflects God's will. Ch. 2 teaches how to become 'Sthitpragna, Ch.3 wants you to be Karma Yogi, Ch.4, guides us on Chitta -Sudhhi, Ch. 5, coming out of doer- ship and practice of equanimity. Like that entire Geeta guides us how to come in line with God's will. Not even a leaf can move without God's will is a distant goal. First try to follow God's will and rest will be answered in due course.
Jayantilal Shah 

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बड़े भैया, गीता-वार्ता संयोजक क्यों ये प्रश्न यहाँ होने देते हैं? यह आप उन्हींसे पूछियेगा। साधक तो अपनी जिज्ञासा पूछेगा ही। स्वामीजीने कभी किसी भी प्रश्नके उत्तरमें यह नहीं कहा कि यहाँ सत्संगमें यह प्रश्न मत पूछो। अकसर उन्होंने तो कहा है : हाँ, बताओ, क्या सुनना है? 
आपने प्रश्न ही नहीं समझा और न ही उसका उत्तर दिया। 
प्रश्न था : क्या कोई जीव सर्वशक्तिमान भगवानकी मरजीके बिना (विरुद्ध) अपनी मरजी चला सकता है? 
उत्तर में दो शब्द कहे जा सकते हैं - हाँ या ना। फिर उसके बाद उत्तरकी पुष्टिमें कुछ और दिया जाय। 
गीता श्लोक 2 : 47 में जहाँ आप कर्मको फलसे अलग देख रहे हैं, वहीं उलझन है साधकको। कर्म भी क्रिया है (जो की जा रही है किसी निमित्त द्वारा) और फल भी क्रिया है (जो हो रही है किसी निमित्त द्वारा) .  
आपने पौराणिक उदाहरणके लिये पिछले उत्तरमें कुछ कहा था कि वे साधकने क्यों दिया, सो वर्तमान उदाहरण से समझ लें।
आपके अनुसार जीव कुछ भी करनेको स्वतन्त्र है। साधकके अनुसार जीव केवल निमित्त है जो केवल 'उसकी' इच्छा-निर्देश अनुसार किसी भी क्रियाका निमित्त बनता है (स्वतन्त्र कर्ता नहीं ). अब उदाहरण लीजिये : आप चाकूसे कोई फल काटना चाहते हैं। आपने काटना शुरू किया। आपके द्वारा फल काटनेकी क्रिया तब तक नहीं होती जब तक फल कटता नहीं जाता। अर्थ यह हुआ कि क्रिया और फल 'एक' हैं, अलग-अलग नहीं जो एक अब हो तो दूसरा तब हो। 
यह जो मनुष्यने बना लिया है कि आज परीक्षा देनेकी क्रिया की और उसका फल दो महीने बाद आयगा सो साधककी समझसे गलत है। परीक्षा आज दी तो देनेकी क्रियाके साथ ही परीक्षा होनेकी क्रिया भी हो गयी। वह जो बादमें आनेवाला फल है वह परीक्षा देनेका फल नहीं है, बल्कि अंकोंके कम-ज्यादा होनेका फल है जो रिजल्ट बनते समय अंकोंके कम-ज्यादा होनेके साथ-साथ होता जाता है। अब समझ अपनी-अपनी। 
svkrishna जी! स्वामीजी रचित साधक-संजीवनी English भाषामें उपलब्ध है online पहले पढ़ लें कृपया।   
अस्तु। 
सविनय,
साधक 


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Friends
Read verse 5/14 of Gita and the issue may be clear.
Where is Gita , it is mentioned that what ever one does is as per the will of God.
Then all crimes are as per will of God.
Men acts as per his traits / sanskars - Sattwik , Rajasik or Tamasik and reaps the fruits of his action.
Men is free to choose what to do under any situation but he has to reap the result of his action.
I will request readers to highlight verse and chapter in Gita where it is mentioned that whatever men does is as per will of God.
regards

Ashok Jain
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Hari Om

You need not apologise, Dear Sadhak S V Krishna. You are perfectly alright. No religion of the world would ever say to humanity that, you are a puppet in the hands of God. God is not that cruel to make you do a deed and then punish you. Even kings and governments do not do that, how , then how the King of all the Kings, Paramatma would do that ? The Question of our Eternal Religion, Sanatan Dharma, Gita, All Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma , and the Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma, ever stating, believing or hinting so does not arise.  Param Shraddheya Swamiji  Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj never stated anything believed by the Questioner, as has been clarified in my previous response.

 Sadhak Ashok Jain is also very correct in his response.

Various sadhaks, are once again requested not to use the name of Swamiji so casually. SAdhaks must read and apply discrimination. Gita begins with discrimination ( VIVEKA) only. Let us understand the truth, without introducing personal theories. You must re-visit your "acceptance" song. Sadhaks, you are entitled to ask Qs but never say something in the name of Swamiji. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 
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Hari Om

Yes ! In fact, except JEEVAN MUKTA Mahatmas, like Swamiji or Sethji Jaydayalji Goendka, every person "does what he wishes" ! Where is the Q of Almighty's will there ? Jeeva has independence to act , "to do" ! Says Gita - KARMANYE VAADHIKARASTE" - Jeeva has right to act. There is no question of Jeeva becoming more powerful than God because it has independence to act. That Arjuna called God to be " one without second" does not mean, by any sane imagination, that God only has power to do, and no Jeeva has power to do !!! When rights have been given in 2:47 of Gita, where is obstruction to that ? Yes - " not a leaf can move without God's will" but where it is written that no one act to move the leaf ( whether actually leaf moves or not is matter of "result" not of "action" ) ? You may try to move the leaf, who prevents? 

Now come to Swamiji's message - " Have no will of your own. Whatever are your wishes, blend these with God's will" ! It means what ? It means you have independence to have will of your own. Saints have adviced - blend your will with God's will- meaning accept results as will of a God, and do not be sorrowful. Do your duty as per God's will means abide by Scriptures, Dharma and behave accordingly. In any case, Where is the Q of any one telling you not to have your will, if ab initio your will is not possible ? 

Swamiji has written pages upon pages , chapters upon chapters on this subject. He believed that those who say - " nothing can be DONE without God's will" are people with DEMONAIC PROPERTIES ( RAKSHASHS). He gave example from BHAGWATAM of Duryodhana speaking the same language which the Questioner is telling. Swamiji believed CATEGORICALLY that in any statement which says - without will of God, one can not act- केश भर भी सत्यता नहीं है- there is not any truth , not even as minuscule as hair.

Actually holding such belief that whatever we do is God's will is fatal and dangerous for humanity. Tomorrow some body will commit a heinous crime and say - It is God's will. Moreover, not only in 2:47 but later on in Gita , God has categorically stated - I neither make any Jeeva do any Karma, nor I connect any Jeeva with the result of Karma. The fundamental principle of God is - He is NIRLIPTA ( attachment-less) ! God never makes you act, He metes out to you the results of your acts. If He makes you do acts, where then will remain any sanctity of Scriptures, Saints, ideals ? Why do you read Gita, if you have no free will to act? Devatas do not read Gita, animals do not do, ghosts do not do, because they have no FREE WILL.  Why humans then do? Because they have FREE WILL - as simple as that. 

You search yourself page nos of Sadhak Sanjeevani. It is high time you read yourself. You must. Why Moderators are repeatedly allowing such Qs? Such Qs may harm lay men in an enormous manner. Such Qs , if given with unauthorised authenticity of Swamiji saying so, can make some one commit a sin believing - I am not doing, God is doing ! Such Qs should be strictly monitored.  It must be 100 times that such Q has been raised and replied. You must have willingness to understand.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 

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Sir, 
I want a few clarifications before I answer your querry qhich seems to me extremely relevant and important. first, bu God do you refer to Parama Atma or Parabrahma or the Semetic almighty. second, by will what exactly you wish to convey? Your translation as Marajee is I am afraid not suitable in the context of parma atm aor Parabrahma. This entity has no marajee (wish or desire). It is Udaaseenavat aaseena. Creation was by his will; along with creation laws of nature were born and things move as per those laws and not controlled from far off by Param atma. Parama atma did not create man in his shape and give the man lordship over everything else. Each being acts as per its designated dharma (niyamita dharma) and faces the consequences as per this law of Nature (Rita). ParamaAtm ahas given a lot of liberty to beings and it is the duty of these beings to utilize this liberty and obtain optimal benefit. The best being is the one who lives optimally. Assuming that one eats as per the will of His and does things as per the d9ctate of destiny is nuhilism or worse  fatalism. Gita exhorts us not to fall prey to this diabolic theory.
I am afraid I havent read the sanjeevani by the said swamiji. If this contradicts Swamijis version, which I do not think would, I apologize
svkrishna  

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>>  Can any being,  do what he wishes, without the will (opposed to) of the Almighty God's will?  

No.

Please understand the message of Swamiji in light of your above message.

Swamiji means that everything is God's will. All actions are God's. Just accept this fact. Then, you will have no will of your own as you accept that everything is God's will.

Same applies to actions. All actions are God's. Accept this fact. Then, whatever done by you will be God's and you won't do wrong actions.

Regards,
Murari Das

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