Sunday, May 18, 2014

[gita-talk] All Actions are God's; They are Not Ours - Your Insights


Shree Hari  Ram Ram  

This brings closure to this topic.    thank you all !  
Gita Talk Moderators,   Ram Ram 


Generally, we divide actions as God's, mine, others, duty etc. Swamiji is clear that it is mistake to see actions as NOT God's. Ultimately, all actions are God's whether we accept or not. We need to be established in this truth. Basically, the point is that dutiful actions or actions of any others kind are God's. We think that they are ours or others. They are never ours. When we get situated in this truth, everything else automatically becomes what it supposed to be.

Murari Das


Geetha said; If you claim actions are yours then it is yours. But if you detach from fruits of actions then it is God`s.


स्वामीजीने कहा है : हमारा स्वरूप क्रिया और पदार्थसे रहित 'अव्यक्त' है। 
साधक समझता है कि कोई भी क्रिया और पदार्थ साधकका नहीं है, फिर चाहे जिसका हो, तो हुआ करे। 
अब सभी क्रिया और पदार्थ परमात्माके हैं, या प्रकृतिके हैं, या गुणोंके हैं, या किसके हैं? 
जिसके भी हैं, उसके सिद्ध करनेके लिये क्या साधकगण सक्षम है? (आज सिद्ध करना है)। 

yes this we will realize when we are old ...

only great saints like kaladi shankaracharya, ramana maharshi,
vishweshwara sri pada , swami narayana and so many who have realized
god at an young age rest all truth dawn only in olden age when body
fails and it sits in one place and the mind will think what gained and
what lost all these years, till then it is like flying kite high up in
the sky, in hot weather it will collapse and after drinking water
again it will go high up in the sky same case with us only when we
sleep dead tired we are calm, quite rest of the time we are restless
and do this or that to satisfy our ego
Swami Krishnanand 


Hari Om 

No where, by reading / listening Swamiji, one can gather an impression that - " Swamiji is clear that it is mistake to see action as NOT God's" ! Swamiji never would say that. How can He say that when all of His teachings emanate from Gita ? He was a Saint. Can a Saint ever say so ? No..., and He never said so. It is therefore only an imagination, personal perception and understanding of the Questioner and nothing else. It is another matter that such imagination, perception and understanding is totally wrong, faulty and not supported by Gita, Scriptures rather it is OUT AND OUT, CATEGORICALLY, COMPREHENSIVELY, DEMONSTRABLY against the very dictates of Gita etc. It can not be right. Such understanding is not only against the Scriptures , Gita etc, the practice of it can be dangerous and fatal for a human being, can spread filth among the humanity and can lead only to chaos and nothing else. 

Since the very question is framed on flimsy, wrong and erroneous understanding, perception of Swamiji, Scriptures, Gita, no answer can be given, unless the Questioner explains as to how and on what basis his such comprehensively Tamasic and erroneous perception has arisen. I am using rather strong words because in this Forum , we resist any body using name of Swamiji and advance personal understanding. I would have replied differently, had the Questioner not used the name of Swamiji !

In the meantime, if the Questioner has Gita at his disposal , then he should read  in particular verse 14 of Chapter 5 of Gita which states as under : 

Neither the sense of doership nor the nature of actions does the Lord determine for the mankind, nor does He link actions with their fruits. But it is the PERSONAL NATURE alone, that impacts ( causes ) ! 

Verse 15 of same chapter states as under: 

The all pervading Lord, acquires neither sin nor the virtue of any; as knowledge is enveloped by ignorance ( VIVEKA gets ignored/disrespected ); therefore , being get deluded. 

The Questioner should also try to read almost every verse of Gita which keeps on telling directly or indirectly that Jeeva has a right to do, and must suffer the consequences of right or wrongful karma. It is surprising that Questioner is using name of Swamiji so casually. He is clearly ignorant of the fact that Swamiji has written at length on this subject, and has even captioned one entire chapter as " KARTA KAUN" ( who is doer, who does ? ). The questioner is completely ignorant of the fact that Swamiji has criticised in very strong words those people who told  Him that " all acts are God's" ! He even went on to call such people as RAKSHASHAS , by quoting Duryodhana expressing similar sentiments in Bhagawatam. Swamiji categorically stated that - IT IS SELF AND SELF ONLY WHO SUFFERS SORROWS, because Self only becomes doer ( assumes doership in him). Gita constantly reminds humanity not do evil, do not do evil, if you do , you suffer, if go to hells.  If God only is the doer, can Gita say so ?

 We are totally ignorant of Gita, Scriptures, Writings of Saints and Sages, SHRUTI , YUKTI and ANUBHOOTI, when we believe that all acts are done by God. Nothing is done by God, in fact. It is Prakruti which does, and Jeeva suffers because it holds affinity with Prakruti. That Prakruti belongs to God, does not mean God does.  We are so disillussioned while holding the belief that " everything is done by God" , that we even clearly ignore a simple fact that if that is so - where is sanctity or need for Scriptures, Saints and Sages, where is need for " do this, do not do this" - such vidhis and nishedhs,  where is the very glory of human birth !!!??? 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 


II  9:27 II
Yat karosi yadasnaasi yajjuhosi dadaasi yat
Yattapasyasi kaunteya tatkurusva madarpanam  (Gita 9:27)
O Son of Kunti, what ever you do, what ever you eat, what ever you offer in sacrifice (yajna), what ever you bestow as a charity (or gift), whatever austerities you practice, offer (dedicate) them all to Me. 
Jnana Yogi, renounces his assumed relation with the world, but a devotee does not believe or accept any reality other than God.   Jnana Yogi, renounces objects and actions, whereas devotee offers objects and actions to God, that is, believing these not to be his own, rather believes them to be God's and God's manifestation.   In other words a devotee surrenders himself to God.   By surrendering the Self (swayam) to God all activities and happening whether worldly or of spiritual nature all are naturally and automatically surrendered to God.   
Question:  If one performs wrongful actions and then offers these to God, then what? 
Answer:   Only those things and activities can be offered to God, that are in conformance to His teachings, that are favorable and acceptable offerings according to God.   That devotee whose sentiments are one of offering his actions to God, he will not be able to perform wrongful actions nor will he be able to make an offering of wrongful actions.   It is customary that whatever is offered to God, it comes back ten folds to the devotee.   If one offers these wrongful actions to God, then the punishment for this will also comeback to him ten fold.

From Gita Prabodhani by Swami Ramsukhdasji

||  Shree Hari   ||

All Dutiful Acts are Called Sacrificial Offerings
सभी कर्तव्य कर्मोंका नाम यज्ञ है

6th May,  2014, Tuesday
Vaishaak Shukla Saptami,   Vikram Samvat 2071, Mangalvaar

Swaadhyaa in other words,  study of the Vedas, lessons in the Smritis and reflecting and contemplating on these, itself have been given the name of   'स्वाध्याययज्ञ' 'swaadhyaa yagya' by God.  Not only that, but the  understanding that arises through these,  and any point that can be understood in depth has been called 'ज्ञानयज्ञ' 'gyaan yagya'.   Calling them by the name of  'यज्ञ' 'yagya',  God has materialized all of them.  He contextually brings to closure these talks of 'yagya' (sacrificial offering) in Gita Verse 4/32   ‒
एवं  बहुविधा    यज्ञा    वितता    ब्रह्मणो  मुखे ।
कर्मजान् विद्धि तान् सर्वानेवं ज्ञात्वा विमोक्ष्यसे ॥
Evam bahuvidhaa yajnaa vitataa brahmano mukhe
karmajaanviddhi taansarvaanevam jnaatvaa vimoksyase
Thus many forms of sacrifice have been described in detail in the Vedas.  Know them all as born of action and having known these as such thou shalt be liberated  from the bondage of action   (Gita 4/32)

In this verse Yagna has been said to arise from actions.  In the previous verse,  the Lord says ‒
यज्ञशिष्टामृतभुजो यान्ति ब्रह्म सनातनम् ।
Yajnashishtaamritabhujo yaanti brahma sanaatanam;
Those who perform Yajna obtain the nectar (of knowledge) as a result of their sacrifice and attain eternal Brahman. (Gita 4/31)

‒ The point that is addressed in Gita 4/23 is ‒
यज्ञायाचरतः कर्म समग्रं प्रविलीयते ।
"Yagyaayaacharatah karma samagram pravileeyate" (Gita 4 / 23 ).
"He, who works for the sake of sacrifice (yajña) alone, all his actions are destroyed (dissolved),"
‒  In one way, that very same epilogue in has been addressed in Gita 4/31 ‒'यज्ञशिष्ट अमृतका भोजन करनेवाले सनातन ब्रह्मको प्राप्त होते हैं ।'*  
'Those who partake from the sacred remnants after a sacrifice (yajna), attain to the eternal Absolute.'  (Gita 4/31)
In this manner in Gita Verse 3/13 it is seen ‒
यज्ञशिष्टाशिनः सन्तो मुचन्ते सर्वकिल्बिषैः ।
"yagyashishthaashinah santo muchyante sarvakilbishaih" (Gita 3/13)
"The righteous who eat the remnants of the sacrifice are released from all sins" (Gita 3/13).

Now see ‒ To be released from all sins,  to be absolved of all actions and through sacrificial offering to attain Brahma -  these three are one and the same.  The meaning of all three are not different.   In Gita 3/9 and 3/13 and in Gita 4/23 and 4/31  - in all four of these verses, the fruit of sacrifices has been communicated which is ‒ Realization of the Essence (Paramatma tattva), absolving of all sins, and severing relationship with the world.   Therefore,  as many means that are there in realizing God, they have all come into being, by the name of "yagya" in Gita.   This has been proven by the aforementioned points. In the intermediate, discussion about all the various "yajnas"  has taken place -  "dravya yagna", "tapoyagna",  "swadhyaaya yagna", "yogyagna", jnaana yagna,"  "praanayaam yagna" etc.   One will have to accept that charity (daan),  austerities (tapa), visiting holy places (teerth yagna),  "hom" -  these all-in-all 'यज्ञ' 'yagna' come under the umbrella of the word "yagna".   

In Gita 4/32,  after saying that  'There is much elaboration and detailing on all the yagnas in the Vedas'‒  then under "yagna", God has also expressed the inner sentiments of worship of Him.  The description of this is not in the Gita,  however, it has come in the Upanishads.   God says to Arjuna ‒

'Understand all these to arise from actions' ‒'कर्मजान् विद्धि' 'and knowing so, become free from the bondage of karma ‒'एवं ज्ञात्वा विमोक्ष्यसे ।'
(to be continued.....)

From book in Hindi ' Jeevan Upyogi Kalyaan Maarg' by Swami Ramsukhdasji


Date : 1 May, 2014 -  Sabhi Kartavya Karma ka Naam Yagya Hai


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