Thursday, February 20, 2014

[gita-talk] Fw: The Bhagavad Gita - Daily Message - 14/22

 


||   Shree Hari  ||

II  14:22 II

 
śrī-bhagavān uvāca
prakāśaṁ ca pravṛttiṁ ca mohameva ca pāṇḍava
na dveṣṭi sampravṛttāni na nivṛttāni kāṅkṣati
 
The Blessed Lord said:
O Pāṇḍava (Arjuna), he (the Gunatita) does not hate light of wisdom  (Sattva), activity (Rajo-guna), and delusion (Tamo-guna) when they are present; nor does he long for them when absent.

Comment:

The mental states do not stay the same with any person. The tendencies are also present in the mind (Antahkarna) of Gunatita (who has transcended the three Gunas) but he does not have the attachment and aversion with these tendencies. In him, the tendencies keep coming and going on their own. Gunatita does not pay attention to these tendencies; because in his perception nothing remains other than God.  

In great man such as Gunatita, who transcends the Guṇas, desires 'neither the favorable circumstances to continue nor the unfavorable ones to disappear'. Having realized that he is immutable, he does have the knowledge of the desirable and the undesirable circumstances, but he (the Self) is not affected by them. The tendencies of the mind change but he himself remains untainted. The aspirant also should not be affected by dispositions because the Gunatita (perfected soul) is the ideal for the aspirant, the aspirant follows the ideal.

It is compulsory for every aspirant that he (Self) should not identify himself with the body. The dispositions are in the mind and not in the Self. Therefore, an aspirant should regard these dispositions neither good nor bad, nor in the Self. The reason is that these propensities come and go but the Self ever remains the same. Had these propensities been in us (the Self), they would have persisted as long as the Self exists. But this is every one's experience that we ever exist but the propensities appear and disappear. These propensities are evolutes of Prakṛti, while we (the Self) have a relationship with God. Therefore the Self, who is a witness of the modifications, remains one and the same Self.

Gita Prabodhani by Swami Ramsukhdasji  

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http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/geeta_prabodhani_shalok/main.htm





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Tuesday, February 18, 2014

[gita-talk] How is one to know that they have had the realization of being separate from objects, circumstances, states etc.?

 


Swamiji says :   We are separate from objects, circumstances,  states etc -  the realization of this is itself liberation.    What is it that identifies the experience of being separate from objects, circumstances, states etc.?   How is one to know that they have had this realization?   

Please explain concisely.   Humbly,  Sadhak


स्वामीजीने कहा है : हम वस्तुपरिस्थितिअवस्था आदिसे अलग हैं‒इसका अनुभव होना ही मुक्ति है ।
हम वस्तु, परिस्थिति, अवस्था आदिसे अलग हैं, इसका अनुभव होनेकी पहचान क्या है? कैसे जानें कि यह अनुभव हुआ?
कृपया संक्षेपमें समझायें। 
सविनय,
साधक 

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What are Cosmic Vibrations? 
How can one (Sadhak) drown own self in them? 
How can one ascertain the drowning for an indefinite time when nothing is known as to what will happen next?
Kindly explain in easy to understand terms.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

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As the body consciousness comes down,fear of death comes down and as we get more uninterrupted awareness of 'Na Hanyate Hanyamane Sharire' or more as we live up to first 3 verses of Chapter 16, - Abhayam Satwa - Sansudhihi etc., slowly, very steadily but clearly, we will notice that we have taken steps in the direction of realisation.
Jayantilal Shah
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yes each and every aspect has some causation we are instrument in his 
hands we commit and suffer if we practice nothing no desire like sri 
ramakrishna paramahamsa we will be the happiest 
god bless you 
swamiji  Krishnanand
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Hari Om

Swamiji once said such Qs are like asking : "Bring torch, put on lights...I want to see burning fire." Another time He said : There is no thermometer for finding out. He believed that no change takes place in you. Like an idiom in English - Before Realisation - Chop wood, carry water. After realisation - Chop wood, carry water. Hence you can only pick threads from His discourses and try to answer Qs Iike this. 

He once said : "That I am not this" , this experience comes first, and thereafter the experience that " This is me" comes. He , another time,  said that in a realised soul none of the these three are present : 1) I have become realised 2) I have not become realised and 3) I don't know whether I have become realised or not ....all these 3 experiences do not take place in a Realised Soul.( This is precisely stated in Upanishads also) !  Another time He said : That " I am Brahma" - this is not experience of ANY ONE . He , particularly , went on to state that such experience never occurs to a Realised Soul. He once said : The world does not exist in the eyes of a Mahatma ( Realised Soul ) and God ....there is no world at all for them (which means you cease to get impacted by everchangeability , perishability and vicissitudes of world) .  His Respected Idol - Sethji Shri Jaydayalji Goendka , believed in STAGES of Realisation , in the fourth state you are dreamy. You look at the world as a dream. But Swamiji did not , to my knowledge , make any such statement. 

He strongly believed that SAMATA ( equanimity) should be the yardstick for experience. If one experiences EQUANIMITY, then such person can be called REALISED. If you experience equanimity, in other words, if you are not IMPACTED by good or bad, adverse or favourable, victory or defeat, like or dislike...these dualities....you are REALISED. This is His answer to such Qs. The person who is liberated, who is REALISED would not NOT experience dualities. He will be equanimous. 

I would presume that world then would appear as a dream , knowing the same to be the dream. Swamiji said million times : Only God exists, nothing except God exists. That can be said also to be EXPERIENCE of Realised Mahatmas. 

He also said once: After Realisation this experience that " I am knowledgeable, others are not" does not occur. Actually nothing happens upon realisation , you just know what is truth. It is merely a "remembering" ! You get back your memory. Things remain as they are. Only your way of looking at them changes. Said Swamiji - Your "sva-bhaav" changes. 

There is subtle change inside in your perception, your understanding. What was, is and has to be truth , is known to you...as if it was never ( how can it be ?) otherwise. It is like your finding that gold chain was always around your neck  in the past and so is now !!!!  You get EQUANIMOUS. You know what was already so. Hence you can not say you have got something a new. You realise also nothing new. It is just seeing the things as they "really are, were and have to be" ! Nothing , nothing to be proud of, nothing new, nothing fresh , ....no inventions !!! No likes, no dislikes, no love, no hatred !!!!

As I understand, Swamiji did not like people talking of VASUDEV SARVAM, based on bookish knowledge. He called VASUDEV SARVAM to be strictly a personal experience and not something which can be explained or narrated. Once a lady said : I smoke BEEDI ( cigarette), there is God in it also. He replied : Yes , there is God in BEEDI, but then hells are also God only, be ready to meet with God in the form of hells. 

However, there are many books, including Yoga Vashishtha, and of many Saints like Shankaracharya, where attributes of a Realised Soul are described. To my mind....all talk invariably and predominantly of ONE EXPERIENCE at least ....EQUANIMITY. 
When I used to visit Swamiji, I would follow Him even after completion of His discourse, till He entered car. I used to wonder the way He would see at all of us, before entering the car, folded hands ( Namaste form), very compassionate eyes ( perhaps not directly looking at any one) ! That sight of Him always made me wonder. After His departure from mortal world, once it occurred to me that He was looking at all of us as Vasudev. He was Mahatma with a Realisation of Vasudev Sarvam. Still today when I close my eyes, that sight thrills me. Totally detached, totally indifferent...doing PRANAAMS to the world , looking at the world as incarnation of His Beloved, God. He would often say : This world is First incarnation of God, pay respect to it !!!! Now on this "experience" Q , this may be a pointer. 

Come to the basic text of this Q. " Separate from objects, things" ! Anything which is visible to you is NOT YOU, because it s a law: SEEN ( scene) CAN NOT BE THE SEER . One who sees is always different from that which is SEEN. Is not this experience, very easy to get ? 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 
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The moment one can drown one-self into the cosmic vibration for an infinite time. Regards to all > Barin Chatterjee

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The Yogi feels a deep sense of helplessness . . . an impotence . . . as he watches the Play of Existence . . . 
in the Yogi, questions have ceased arising . . . 
He knows !  Yet, he lives with a feeling that  No 'Knowing is his . . . He DOES . . and yet NO Doing is his . . . . 

When he 'knows' , he knows ! he needs NO telling from anyone else . . . . 

What he knows , he shares joyfully, with them, in whom questions still arise . . .LOL

is narinder a Yogi . . . . only the self , who knows , will know !
aum  

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Dear Sadhak,
Objects are here primarily referring to individual bodies and their circumstances and states.
When you have 100% conviction that you are not an individual body and the conviction is spontaneous with no further thoughts coming to your mind then it is liberation.
Your Servant,
Kali Sadhak

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Dear Sadaks,
How we know there is calcium in Milk? How we know that electricity is used for so many application? By seeing and knowing/ studying. Gyana is that gives the answer.
B.S.

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क्या मुक्त (जिसे सबसे मुक्ति मिल गयी) और स्थितप्रज्ञ (गीता 2:54 से 2:72 तक वर्णित) परस्पर विनिमेय (interchangeable) शब्द हैं

In Swamji's term, self is always "mukta". स्थितप्रज्ञ is person who realizes that self is always मुक्त and is not in illusion of identifying self with matter.

By mukti, you most probably mean mukti from illusion. Then, mukta and sthita-prajnah mean same.

Regards,
Murari Das

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According to me, unless one resorts to the attractive but false maayaa vaada, you exist, as much as you rsurroundings do. Further youy are an integral part of the Prakriti around you. assuming nothing is real is as wise as closing your eyes and announcing there is nothing but darkness around me. Sthita Pradnya is not assuming the falsity but accepting the reality and notbeing wavered by ups and downs or happiness and grief. ref to the relevant slokas in ch.2 of Gita, Sthita pradnyasa kaa bhaaShaa ...
krishna Samudrala

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श्री मुरारीदासजी!
क्या मुक्त (जिसे सबसे मुक्ति मिल गयी) और स्थितप्रज्ञ (गीता 2:54 से 2:72 तक वर्णित) परस्पर विनिमेय (interchangeable) शब्द हैं?
सविनय,
साधक 

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I don't know much about the experience yet. I don't have the experience. But still I have acceptance. I know and accept that I am separate from objects, circumstances, states etc. I also accept that all beings are separate from objects, circumstances, states etc.

From Swamiji's writings, I have learnt that this acceptance will become realization in due course of time. I will know it when it happens. There is no external attribute which can be symptom of this state. If you still want to understand the symptoms, then please read Gita. The explanation of Sthita-prajnah in Gita 2/53 onward explains it nicely. Other sections of Gita and Bhagavatam explain the answer to your question. I can provide more shlokas and more pointers to Swamiji's writing. I think you already know most of them.

I think that you are asking something different which I might not be understanding.


Regards,
Murari Das

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We want to settle with the world through possessions, relations, ideas, situations. We want stable relief through possessions and so on. Nothing can give you stable relief. When you see this, you are settled with yourself. Now you can deal with possessions, relations, ideas, situations as you want.
Y V Chawla


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