Tuesday, July 2, 2013

[gita-talk] What instance is that final moment before death?

 

In Gita 14/18 (Chapter 14,  Verse 18)  in Sadhak Sanjivani,  Swami has talked about the contemplation and reflection at the last moment.  At what instance (point) does that last (final) moment contemplation take place ?   An aspirant has never been able to know the final moment, because Swamiji has said many times that the dying of the body, began at the time of birth.   There is no such moment, when the body is not dying.    According to this, every moment is the last moment before death.   If not, then tell me, what instance is that final moment before death?      

Humbly, 
Sadhak

गीता अध्याय 14 श्लोक 18 की टीकामें स्वामीजीने जिस अंतिम चिंतनकी बात कही है,
वह अंतिम चिंतन किस क्षण होता है? शरीरके मरनेके क्षणको साधक कभी नहीं समझ 
सका है, कारण स्वामीजीने अन्यत्र कहा है कि शरीरका मरना तो उसके जन्मसे ही शुरू 
हो जाता है। ऐसा कोई क्षण नहीं है, जिसमें शरीर मरता न हो। इसके अनुसार प्रत्येक 
क्षण अंतिम क्षण हुआ। यदि नहीं, तो बतायें कि अंतिम क्षण कौनसा क्षण होता है? 
सविनय,
साधक  

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Dear Sadhak,
Your conclusion is wonderful,  we are dying every moment, so we must consider every moment as "last moment" and remain established in God consciousness. 
love and respect,
Sadhna 

प्रिय साधक ,

आपने अति उत्तम निष्कर्ष दिया की हर पल हम मृत्यु की और अग्रसर हैं . इसलिए हर पल ही अंतिम पल समझा जाना चाहिए . और हमेशा "सचेत" रहकर सद -चिंतन ही किया जाना चाहिए . 

सप्रेम आदरसहित,
साधना 
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Final moment is the one when one gets freed frpm the concepts of life and death, of good and bad, of desires and abstinence, of love and hate, of anger and jealousy, of ownership of acts performed and thoughtsconceived, of attachment and detachment, of satisfaction and dissatisfaction, of greater or less than, of distrurbance and peace, etc. This final moment may or may not come before an individual dies. If it comes, the person does not get to know but others find the difference that occured in the person concerned. There is no need to worry about the final moment because that does not in any way help any person to reach the final moment. Moment of physical dying may be numerous, but the moment of getting merged with Truth is just one of them.
Basudeb Sen
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श्री व्यासजी!
अभी नहीं जँची। सूक्ष्म शरीर और कारण शरीर किस क्षण स्थूल शरीरको छोड़ते हैं? निश्चित रूपसे बतायें।
और यह भी बतायें कि उस अंतिम क्षण [केवल एक ही क्षण अंतिम क्षण होगा, अनेक क्षण नहीं) क्या-क्या और किस प्रकार चिंतन किया जा सकता है?
सविनय,
साधक
 
श्री मुरारीदासजी! 
श्रद्धेय स्वामीजीने वर्तमान (क्षण) को भूत और भविष्यकी संधि कहा है। वास्तवमें वर्तमान कुछ होता ही नहीं। जब तक हम कहते हैं कि यह (क्षण) वर्तमान है, वह भूतकालमें समा जाता है। इसलिये आजतक कोई वर्तमानको पकड़ नहीं सका और न ही भविष्य को ही पकड़ पाया। तभी कहा जाता है कि काल मनुष्यके हाथकी बात नहीं, सब कालातीत परमात्माके हाथमें है।
साधकको आपसे कालके (भूत, वर्त्तमान और भविष्य) बारेमें बहुत कुछ समझना बाकी है।
सविनय,
साधक  

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Dear Humble Sadika & others,                               Namaskar!  I really do not know what Swami Ji meant when he has said  "dying of the body,  began at the time of birth! There is no such moment, when the body is not  dying!!"    If one would try to find answer to this question from Bhagved Gita then you  would find body is just your clothes and at the time of Death, you  change your  a particular set of clothes ( Particular Janam say present). As regards last  moment of this change of clothes (Death) Lord has only said that whatever  thinking (Bhava) one changes the clothes (Leaves the Body), he would achieve  that:    Ref. Verse: YAM YAM VAPI SAMRAN BHAVAM TEJETENTE KLEVARAM,          TAM TAM AVITEKOINTAY, SADA TAD bHAV bHAVITA!    I do not exactly remember whether, Lord Krishna has touched this very wonder  point as to what point of time, You wear your set of clothes in mothers womb and  when exactly at what point of time you leave it (Death)    Now, as usual my view as a result of unbiased Chintan (Free of Mythology)about  this point of wearing & leaving clothes (Entering fetus or leaving full  developed Body) is given as under:    1. Point of merging Sperm & Egg (point of becoming fertilized egg as bunch of 64  chromozomes with contribution of 32 from Mother's Egg & 32 from Fathers Sperm.    2. Till birth of fetus, the bunch grows! I feel Cells are in the formation  process only with no degeratkion. But, just after birth the cells of body starts  degenerating while new cells starts forming. In the inititial years the rate of  formation is much faster than degeneration till full adulthood, say upto 25  years. But, with the further age enhancing, the rate of formation & degeration  are more or less equal. Towards the old age the rate of formation becomes much  less than rate of degeneration. Therefore, body becomes old & weak.....Finally  due to some acute failure of absolutely required organ you are compelled to  throw away the body..... as regards Point of time i.e. last moment, I would  discuss this later! Most probably Swami Ji has said than dying of the body,  begins at the time of birth.  There is no such moment, when the body is not  dying!! Fortunately, I have understood Swami Ji's saying while explaining my own  Scientific view!    3. Before, I would try to tell you about point of your leaving body at the time  of death, I would discuss your state of sleep & dream! To my mind if you can  find pin pointed moment when you go to sleep state or better in Dream state then  it would be easy to understand my explanation of Exact point of Death (Leaving  your clothes).    4. To begin with you are awake and conscious of everything, then you start  feeling a bit of drowsy having heaviness in eyes and ultimately you go into Deep  sleep, practically unconcious! But due to numbers of reason some explanable and  some not explanable, you become very much conscious as conscious as in real  waking stage... every thing as in waking but, you are only in dream....which you  come to know about only after breaking of dream and becming awake again!    5. To my mind, you die every day, remian unsconscious while in sleep and while  taking new birth in dream but, come back to your clothes (body) since, it is not  the actual DEATH!    6. Concluding, point of Death (point of leaving Clothes) as Science call it  Brain Dead Death must be when no electric implus or signal is shown in EEG  graph. Such point of time is not possible to mark either by Doctor or by  you.....probably the same way as you are not able to pin point the exact time of  Sleep  or going into dream.    5. But, I can tell this much with LOGIC and CONFIDENCE that the while you become  conscious after the point of leaving Body you look at your motionless body  over  which doctors, relatives are mourning or trying to revive you back to life!  Seeing at the loss of your dearest clothes (Body), you feel abolutely sad for  it. Nature being justice provide you a fresh one in the form of New birth....  since  Lord has said you would get that thing what are are thinking about while;  leaving body... as explained before the start of writing my view  point wise  refering Verse of Lord Krishna saying!!    Hope this lengthy response from me would help Sadaks to remove some of the  doubts!!    Narahyan, Narayan,    Kuldeep K. Kaul

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Hari Om

Humble ji Maharaj ! ITNI BHUAAJI ( Gita) BHOLI NAHIN HAI. MARNA SHURU HOTA HAI, PAIDA HONE KE SAATH HI, LEKIN......MARNA KHATAM TO ANTIM KSHAN PAR HI HOTA HAI. Dying of the body begins at the time of the birth, but ends only upon final death....Jai Raamji ki time. Kyaa Jachee, Hey Mahamaanav ?. This final contemplation takes place at the last moment, when causal and subtle body leave gross body !!!! 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B 
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Dear Sadaks,
Final moment is described in our texts. One by one the sense organs fail. That is last moment. Once Athuman (You) leave this body you enter another body depending upon your account (Paapa and Puniya) which carried along with you to decide the place of birth, parents, type of body etc.
B.S..

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When yu do not know the last moment, consider every moment to be the last and final. In spiritual world there is no first second and last moments, there are only first moments and those first moments are the last moments also

"A.k.Mukhi" 

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Dear Sadhak,

Just focus on present moment and live in present moment (not past or future). That is the basic requirement to be happy in this world and to be spiritually advanced.

Once you start living in the present moment, you will attain the state whatever you need to be and contemplation will take place in final moment. If you don't live in the present moment, then whatever you do won't be of much help.

If you agree, then next question can be - What does it mean to live in present moment and how to live in present moment?

What you think?

Regards,
Murari Das

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Can you see that death is only an 'idea', a 'thought' for you now?
Can you see that you can not become conscious of your being not-conscious(death).
It is invalid.
It means 'you' and your death can not meet at any point.
Clearly seeing this shows you the ground of consciousness, where each moment is a renewal.
You may see Fundamental Expressions on the web.
Y V Chawla


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