Saturday, July 13, 2013

[gita-talk] We see, but ignorant. why?

 

Namaste,
We see from cats and dogs suffering. We see humans sometimes very pathetic
states. Our pleasures are short lived compared to sufferings. Ex: Married just 5
years later- starts, child care, schooling of child, earning for security, no
time to prayer, even at old age 70/70 sadhabi/ bheema rati santhi etc. but value
or hided secrets behind it is swayed away, just inviting friends, families etc
laugh, enjoy and die. Again start it once again. How Buddha saw was different-
left all and seek utmost. Adi Sankara said,- our life is Dukha Dhosalayam. (life
is of sufferings) Any sadak take pen and note. How many minutes in a day we
enjoyed? How many hours we worked for that minutes pleasures? Even add in papers
show old age home with couple are glittering- but they do not pass on the
information old age home is Vanaprastha- Need to devote your last days fully in
seeking GOD.

We see all this, yet we remain ignorant, Why?

B.S

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Dear Sadhak,
Yes, we are suffering but we remain  ignorant. We see sufferings still we don't wake up and search for its reason like Budhha, we have sufferings , still our relations with God is based on fear or greed, we only ask HIM to give us what we think will remove our sufferings. Sufferings comes again and again, its inside and outside us, but we never cry for HIM,.Sad, but true.
ONLY when our sufferings reached to the peak and our inner truly & honestly cries out for HIM by saying "Ab Main Nacho Bahoot Goapala..." a Guru, and/or right knowledge happens in our life. Only then the TRUTH , unfold itself to us.
This is how suffering plays an important role in human life, and this is only reason suffering is created. Strangely after getting the knowledge,sufferings becomes totally unnecessary.
So as swamiji says---call out and say , "Only You are Mine, mere to Girdhar gopal, Dusra na koi " O Lord , ONLY you are mine, have exclusive mineness with HIM, cry for HIM as a baby cries for mother...and rest will be done on you !!!
Love,
Sadhna

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श्री बसुदेब सेनजी!
जब तक our mind, our body, we do आदि रहेगा, क्रियाओं ( by submitting and surrendering all that we do) का समर्पण नहीं होगा। स्वामीजीने समर्पणका सरल उपाय बताया है : ''जो भी समर्पण करना है, उसे अपना मत मानो। बस हो गया समर्पण। इसमें क्या कठिनाई है? हो तो  बताओ।''
जानकारीमें था, इसलिये share किया गया।
सविनय,
साधक  

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Hari Om

The statement and question by Sadhak BS can not be said to be wrong or pessimistic by any yardstick ! There is nothing wrong in understanding of the questioner...absolutely nothing wrong. I agree that this world is DUKHALAYAM. It is so...by any yardstick. Gita says so...SHRUTI, YUKTI AND ANUBHUTI say so. Scriptures say so. Saints say so. Our direct experience says so. It is deliberately made by God to be so ! Where is doubt on this ?  It is our dis respect to VIVEKA that we can't appreciate this simple thing. Gita categorically states - ANITYAM ASUKHAM LOKAM IMAM PRAPYA BHAJASVA MAAM ( 9:33)- You have got temporary and happiness-less world, now turn towards Me..says Lord Krishna. We may call even Lord Krishna to be pessimistic...the tongue does not have bone, but as Miraji Dass stated, that does not change the truth. What an astonishing world !!! How easily one forgets or avoids the plain truths? When shall we learn to understand the truth as truth? How does a man cheat himself? Yes...understanding Truth as Truth only is JNANA. Why don't we accept what we already know? Each and every word stated by BS is plain truth. One who does not understand this plain thing does so only at his own peril. 


Yes...getting engrossed in family etc beyond a particular limit is not God's work. It is wastage and stupidity. It is not correct either. You MUST detach from family, friends, son, home, if  not physically, but definitely sentimentally... you MUST. That is Gita. Does God not know that He resides in all? Yes...! Still Lord says in 13:9...ASAKTAH ANABHISHWANGA PUTRA DAAR GRIHA ADI SHU...( Get detached from wife, son , home etc) ! Why does Gita say so? Is Gita pessimist ? No...! It is necessary. God is in all, is everywhere. So what ? One of the VIBHUTI of God as stated in Chapter 11 is that He is present in gambling also. Should you then gamble also? That is why concept of Vasudev Sarvam needs to be imparted to qualified ones only. Utter chaos can result if the theme that all is God is practiced and understood this way. There was a genuine query by Sadhak B S , appropriately captioned. Look how it has been twisted and interpreted under the garb of Vasudev Sarvam !!! What was the answer to him? That he is pessimist...that his understanding was wrong ? HA...!!! Humble Sadhak , therefore, has raised perfect issue.

Shocking...astonishing...astounding indeed !!!!  Humble Sadhak has very rightly observed and so have majority of Sadhaks. This is Gita Talk Forum...here only TRUTH prevails...nothing else except truth. My Pranaams to Sadhaks of this Forum. They never let false prevail !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Shree Hari  

Yudhishtir said one of the most astounding things is that even though everything is moving away towards destruction and people are dying all around us, yet each one thinks that he will remain. Let us look at our own lives. How many have left us ? It is the Truth.   We are only travelers,  short timers, guests.  We will be leaving this place soon !    

This world is "dukhaalaya", an abode of sorrow.   Understanding the Truth as Truth is Jnanayog (discipline of knowledge). In Gita, God has said "samattvam yog uchhyate"   

Let us remain established in equanimity, in this truth.   All pairs of opposites are in the world.  We are unaffected by all of these.   
Meera Das,  Ram Ram 

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श्री मुरारीदासजी, श्री B.S. के प्रति आपका कथन ''B.S. thinks that getting married, taking care of children, providing the knowledge, food and shelter etc are not part of seeking God.'' उन्हें भले ही स्वीकार हो, साधकको स्वीकार नहीं। यह उनकी thinking नहीं है, observation है जो हममेंसे  बहुतोंका भी है। उनका प्रश्न यह है कि इन सब धन्धोंमें व्यस्त रहनेपर हम  प्रार्थनाके लिये  अलगसे समय नहीं निकाल पाते, इसकी अनदेखी करते हैं? आखिर क्यों?
इसका उत्तर उन्हें चाहिये। और अब साधकको भी चाहिये [क्योंकि साधक भी इसी phase से गुजर चुका है]
सविनय,
साधक 
 
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Body, Mind etc are part of Nature's product and subject entirely to Natural processes. The Sun burns all the hile for billions and trillions ofyears but do not complain of sufferring. The planet Earth orbits the Sun and spin itself uncessantly all the while without complaining of suffering. Water moves from place to place around the World in different forms without complaint of suffering. We human beings only complain of suffering and desires to have pleasure all the time. This has been implanted in us by Nature. Our knowledge is limited by Nature and our ignorance therefore in infinite. There is however a silver lining that we ultimately realize that pleasures are rare and suffering is the overwhelming dominant part of our lives. Since we realize this it is possible to start practicing seeking pleasure and happiness from life and becoming steadfast in experiencing suffering. This might help us become immune to suffering and seeing all events and happenings as of no consequence to us. And, this can be done only by submitting and surrendering all that we do, think and experience to God/ the Creator without owning up any thing of these as our individual experience. Then both pleasures and happiness as well as sufferings - all no longer perturbs are mind except for a second - all fears and anxities and pains go away from our mind's recognition. Nature has given this trait to some men and women. We can just try to follow their lives and words. Life of Krishna  and His words in Gita can help us on our efforts to get detached from all events, happenings, and experiences of different kind. They will not stick on our minds just as nutrinos pass continuously through our bodies but do not stick to the bodies.
Basudeb Sen

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जो सभी योनियोंमें आपको जो दुःख-भोग दिखायी दे रहा है, वास्तवमें वह ''दुःखका जाना'' [passing away of grief] है। असली दुःख प्रतिकूल परिस्थितियाँ नहीं, अपितु ''सुखकी कामना'' है, जिसे त्यागनेके लिये गीतामें कहा गया है। अब मरजी आपकी।
अस्तु. सविनय,
साधक 

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Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.

This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka, regarding why we remain ignorant.

The answer is simple. Illusion or Maaya.

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,

" Daivi hy esha guna mayi 
Mama maya duratyaya
  Mam eva ye prapadyante
  Mayaam etam taranti te."
        Gitaji ( 7, 14)

which means,
" This Divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome.
But those surrender unto Me can easily cross it.".

This material world is an illusion or maaya.  Lord Krishna is the master of illusory energy hence He says in this slokam " Mama eva" which means He only.  He only can help us get through this. Only through devotional service we can overcome the miseries of materialism.

Thank You.

Prasad A.Iragavarapu, MD

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B.S. thinks that getting married, taking care of children, providing the knowledge, food and shelter etc are not part of seeking God.

That is not correct understanding. Actually, all work are God's. Due to ignorance, we divide work as God's and not God's. But everything is God's. As soon as we accept this truth, all work which was already God's become God's. 

So, accept all work as God's and do work as worship to people in whom God resides. 

You might not agree with what I have written. If not, please ask question.

Regards,
Murari Das

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Hari Om

We "see" , but remain ignorant ! Why ? Because "seeing" takes place but not acceptance. We know many things, but do we admit or accept that knowledge ? A smoker very well knows that smoking is bad, but does he/she accepts that ? No....! When we see others suffering , instead of looking at world's inherent property of being DUKHALAYAM, we try to attribute reasons like karma, time etc. Secondly, we do not pay respect to VIVEKA. Thirdly, we use outer eye not inner eye. Fourthly, we have a habit ( SVABHAV) and desire of deriving pleasure out of what is "seen"( world) and that blinds us from appreciating the fact that what we see happening to others is most likely rather certain to happen with us also. Finally, the tools on which we rely in arriving at our observations/ appreciation of world are themselves worldly only, like intellect, ego, mind, sense organs, body etc. Those tools while we foolishly consider them to be " me/mine" , actually belong to world ( Prakruti) only and owe allegiance to world only, and we don't use VIVEKA. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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yes holy mother sharada devi, wife of sri ramakrishna paramahamsa
always said grief is the gift of god, we come to this world to suffer,
suffering makes us strong
dont worry everything will be okay
god bless you
swamiji - SWAMI KRISHNANANDA 

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One who wants to see will see. It is not at all difficult. The happiest time one spends is during deep sleep at night.Then one comes in direct contact and the experience of that time is never known anything other than "what a nice sleep" can we see that period as a video?

Barin Chatterjee

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You can look at as half full or half empty. One is optimist and one is pessimist. If you want to be follower of truth, then see glass as both.

Same way, this world has both states - sukh and dukh. Unfortunately, you have pessimistic view and you have presented one sided view of world as full of suffering.

This world has states - which can be perceived as sukh and dukh. Self is beyond these states. So, ignorance is to let these states affect you. That is what you are doing. Aren't you in ignorance?

Instead of developing aversion towards these states of world, be equanimous and be happy in all these states. All the circumstances you have described cannot make you unhappy. Instead be happy and help others to do the same.

Regards,
Murari Das
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Apart from immediate danger to your life, all discomforts you are experiencing are psychological discomforts.
Once you see this, supreme relaxation takes over.
To touch the Original you have to take one step- ‘to quieten the clamouring mind which says, ‘why this is so’, ‘why this is not so’. The quietening has to happen without the support of any idea, explanation. You and the world is bound as a singular process, enclosed process, the complete, self-sustained process-including what you dislike and like, fear and cherish. Mind comes under the illusion as if something does not belong to it and is to be thrown out. You can not throw the discomfort out of your mind; there is no place to throw it out. When you see this, you are supremely relaxed-as you have seen yourself as a complete process.

Now you are one with Existence 'as it is'.
All issues ‘about Existence’ drop. Ecstasy happens.

Y V Chawla

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Dear BS ji,

if we ask to our inner self (the feeling self and not the thinking brain) that when will we die, the answer will be never.

if we ask to our inner self that since when we are living, the answer will since forever.

Finally if we ask to the same inner self , that whether we would face sufferings and hardships in future, the answer will be No, Never.

Is this our "मोह" towards life or is it the Reality ?

The answer is that it is the Reality, because,


We, our true self is not the sufferer, it was never born and would never die, the body and mind which suffer are different from our true self.

न जायते मॠरियते वा कदाचिनॠनायं भूतॠवा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नितॠयः शाशॠवतोऽयं पॠराणो न हनॠयते हनॠयमाने शरीरे ॥

And the true nature of our self is unending bliss, and consciousness. then how come that feel the fear of sufferings in the near future.

आननॠदमॠपॠरगॠयानमॠबॠरहॠम

all these sufferings are felt by our "सॠथूल शरीर" and "सूकॠछॠम शरीर" and not by our pure self, therefore we can not see any suffering, any death or anything bad for us in near future. 


Regards


Dharmendra Sharma
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