Friday, July 5, 2013

[gita-talk] Suggestions for Gita Talk group - Moving Forward

 


Shree Hari Ram Ram

Recently a highly spiritual, very young sadhak said the following to us.

"I am not very interested in providing answers to any sadhak's questions. On
one hand we ourselves do not properly understand the point completely and
secondly, the person who we are telling, his attention is not on attempting to
understand, but more on cutting the opposite party. This is what is happening
nowadays. If that same individual finds the same thing by himself, while
reading in a particular book, he honors it and gives it due consideration.
However he will not give due consideration to it, in the form of a question and
answer session. This is my personal experience. It is the same in my case,
where I value and respect what I read in books."

We may want to look at how to proceed with this group and where we can add
value, as it appears that many questioners are not quite satisfied with the
responses provided.

We welcome suggestions.......

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Wed Jul 3, 2013 4:51 am 

Saadhaka shall be the first person to stop replying questions appearing here in this forum, if the condition (I feel it proper to mention that Literal Meaning of B-Gita Verse need be well interpreted before formulating a answer for the question from it.) proposed by Shree Kuldeepjee is enforced, because till this moment Saadhaka hasn't completely understood the meaning of each and every of the 700 verses of Gita and also isn't sure for it to happen in near future.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

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Hi all  I think and have felt all along that the moderator and responders response to  the questions posed have stimulated our thoughts to further pursue reading Gita   and Swamijis teaching  The moderator and responders response can be summarized as they have  Performed their prescribed duty without anticipating any fruits  There should not be any attachment to why the questionnaire did not follow thru  or felt uncomfortable  In this case the questionnaire is obliging the readers  to improve the thought  processes of moderator so there is bilateral benefit  There is no question which has no meaning to the individual or society  I will not restrict any questions as where would he go other than to disciples  of Swamiji and Gita forum to soothe his thirst for knowledge and there by  tranquility and peace .  Hopefully all  Thank you letting us get opportunity to read Gita and discussions  Best    Dinesh Patel MD
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GEETA if you write reverse it become TYAGI means to renounce  sacrifice, we should keep on sacrificing our wants, before wasting  food we should think how many go to bed with out eating, before buying  or throwing a warm cloth how many will die in gorakpur railway station  in winter for lack of warm cloth, before we spend lavishly for our  luxury we should think how many poor children get dropped out, how  many schools dont have toilet for girl children and they drop out  god bless you  swamiji  -  GEETA if you write reverse it become TYAGI means to renounce  
sacrifice, we should keep on sacrificing our wants, before wasting  food we should think how many go to bed with out eating, before buying  or throwing a warm cloth how many will die in gorakpur railway station  in winter for lack of warm cloth, before we spend lavishly for our  luxury we should think how many poor children get dropped out, how  many schools dont have toilet for girl children and they drop out  god bless you  swamiji  -  GEETA if you write reverse it become TYAGI means to renounce  
sacrifice, we should keep on sacrificing our wants, before wasting  food we should think how many go to bed with out eating, before buying  or throwing a warm cloth how many will die in gorakpur railway station  in winter for lack of warm cloth, before we spend lavishly for our  luxury we should think how many poor children get dropped out, how  many schools dont have toilet for girl children and they drop out  god bless you  swamiji - SWAMI KRISHNANANDA   


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Respected Moderator,

Hare krsna

Earlier i had sent a write up(continuation to my writing: how Demi Gods have power of see, when Gita states only Krishna has such powers?)

 to your respected group hoping that the same will be put in for circulation( to vouch my writing).  But the same has been returned to me.   But for the last one article other things were put into circulation.  I keep writing these kind of articles as and when I get some development in my views after reading GITA.  It is to share such development that i keep writing in your Group.  i am really thankful to you for putting my earlier writings to circulation.   The acknowledgement that people get from the group is a sort of encouragement.   

Hence I am a bit disappointed why my previous write up is turned down by the Group.   There is nothing written harmfully in that.   Again I am sending the write up for your kind consideration and circulation.

with namaskaram
s.vaidyanathan

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||Ram Ram||
Its good group . We can ask problems and every one gives answers . But Problem occures when every one tells answers in their way even they dont know what to say here according to swamiji , bhaiji or sethji teachings . I think when any one ask something than we should give him reference of Book of swamiji bhaiji or sethji with page no, Cause they know much more than us and they have written a lot of book which covers all fields, problems and questions  of every one's life and mind  .  if any one  can't understand it than we may give explanation . 
Ram Ram 
Pulkit
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Agreeing fully with Shree Vyas NBjee, humble suggestion is : When there appears any kutarka in any Question or in any Reply, the Questioner or the Replier might be requested to come forward with practical example instead of wordy argument.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

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Respected & Dear Moderator,
                           Namaskar!

Number of suggestions have been already been given by other Sadaks, some of which are real worth incorporating...you are the best judge to select. I feel Sadak Murari Das, Raina, Sushil Jain etc suggestions are worth giving a thought!

 My humble additional suggestion is to incorporate Sadak's Date of posting along with the response whether that may be a Question or, an Answer! This would help ALL to keep a tract record of responses who has written what and when in chronological order!

It has been my experience since my joining the group that negligible number of questioners have reported back their  level of satisfaction or dis-satisfaction with the answers they are recieving. This discourages spirit and interest of person who responses such questioners spending lot of tim & energy for this. I must admit Humbly Sadak is an exception in this common non response behavior. Questioner should make it a point to go through the answer and comment about his/her satisfaction/dis-satisfaction at the earliest!

To conclude, I feel it proper to mention that Literal Meaning of B-Gita Verse need be well interpreted before formulating a answer for the question from it. Taking "Karmane Vaa Adhikaraste........ the central point Verse of B-Gita as an example to explain my point.

In common person language and understanding of this verse is KARM KARO, FAL KE CHINTA MAT KARO.... as every mentions!! This can never be the correct interpretation of this Verse! Since, without thinking of sending the Suggestion to you, my suggestion writing is next to impossible!!!

Lord Krishna can never be such a illogical person to tell DON'T THINK OF FAL BUT, DO ACTION ONLY. This is so because without thinking about Fal, truly Karam can not be done!!!!

The correct interpretation therefore, deed be dug out and probably is:

Lord says desire, the conception of Fal produces Action. This is just a natural sequence of cause and effect. But, be careful before selecting your Goal (Fal) viz look for its chances of success/failure, think of proper environment, process, means, not should be injurious to others.... etc. Then fix your Goal after giving full thought, try your level best to achieve the Goal. Till, now everything is in order viz., desire developed, Goal fixed and efforts made! After that God very logically further cautions IF BY CHANCE/LUCK/PRABHDHA OR BY ANY OTHER REASON you don't achieve the set Goal DON'T GET DISHEARTENED! This lord says for two reasons:

1. If you get disheartened, then you would not be able to try again & again and lose the chance of achieving Goal for ever!

2. The success of achieving Goal (Fal) is not in your hand. Only fixing of Goal & Action was in your hand!

Later in verse "PANCHAITANI MAHABHAO KARNANI NIBHODEMAY......" Lord mentions about the 5 reason for success or failure of any Actions!

What I mean to stress upon is, the answer should made after proper understanding the question & the verse used for framing Answer!

Narayana, Narayana

Kuldeep K. Kaul
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Saadhaka agrees to disagree with Shree Murari Dasjee's suggestion for introducing one week's waiting for responses whatever. For Saadhaka, Question and Response are no less related to each other than breathing in and breathing out. No time is to be lost in waiting (who knows when one breaths his/her last?).
Our Swamijee also always advocated for jaldeese jaldee (no time lost in waiting).
Humbly,
Saadhaka 

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Gita-talk is valuable spiritual platform where Sadhaks can interact, understand, have more clarity on various aspects of spirituality which can make our lives better, enjoyable, lovable, and take us further in the direction of attaining liberation...

Yes, an assessment of this unique platform is necessary to know if it is fulfilling the purpose it was started with and whether it can be further strengthened in some ways to add value that Sadhaks drive from this platform.  A few suggestion are given below: 

1. Brief guideline for responding to questions may be necessary:  Brief, to the point answers, in few lines based on wisdom of life could add value to this platform.  

2. Moderator could trim the size of responses to make them more relevant and meaningful. This increases the responsibility and workload of the moderator.  Of course, moderator has to be a enlightened soul, in order to do this value addition.  

3. Some kind of categorization of questions/situations could be developed since many a times various questions put up by Sadhaks may be grouped together and responded all at once.....e.g. Generally problems related to family, relationships, death in a family, husband wife issues, sex issues, etc.  fall in one category and response has to give clarity on the Self and Wisdom of life...  

4. If we work on this seriously, there may be only 3 or 4 types of questions which Sadhaks put up on this platform. 
a) Personal issues concerning relationships, attachment to near and dear ones, etc.  
b) Purpose of life, higher dimensions of life, clarity on reincarnation,  
c) Practicing spiritual wisdom, techniques such as meditation, yoga, seva/service to others, art of giving, etc. 
d) understanding larger picture, God, the Leela...

5. Responses to each category of questions may be slightly different...in the level of understanding i.e. level 1, 2, 3, 4

Responses should align accordingly for better value addition, meaningful interaction and helping each other to go to next level of understanding...

Thanks for the opportunity...

Sushil Jain

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Dear Sadhaks,
It is a good point and needs thorough
consideration. The origin of  less or more
acceptance of answer is directly related to the
who has given the reply. As best governance is and
should be faceless, it is my humble suggestions that
all replies should be read,edited and then put on the platform
as reply 1,2,3...etc.. It will make it more subject focused.
short and point wise replies should be sought and no
lengthy essays.

Hari om,
raina


--------------------------------------------

Tue Jul 2, 2013 6:27 am 

Respected Moderator,

Hare krsna

Earlier i had sent a write up(continuation to my writing: how Demi Gods have power of see, when Gita states only Krishna has such powers?)

 to your respected group hoping that the same will be put in for circulation( to vouch my writing).  But the same has been returned to me.   But for the last one article other things were put into circulation.  I keep writing these kind of articles as and when I get some development in my views after reading GITA.  It is to share such development that i keep writing in your Group.  i am really thankful to you for putting my earlier writings to circulation.   The acknowledgement that people get from the group is a sort of encouragement.   

Hence I am a bit disappointed why my previous write up is turned down by the Group.   There is nothing written harmfully in that.   Again I am sending the write up for your kind consideration and circulation.

with namaskaram
s.vaidyanathan

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Hari Om

This Divine Forum is 9 year old. Though times are changing very fast , this
Forum has stood firm in its object, format and affiliation. It should continue
to remain so. Divine members of this Forum should expect huge onslaught on this
Forum because the teachings of Swamiji are direct, revolutionary and
categorically oppose certain evil practices. If Divine Sadhaks care to see the
past trend of questions....it will be revealed that highest questions were on
the topics of:

1. Guru

2 Problems with reference to householder, marital life, service to others.

3. Questions on the existence of God

4. Status of women and their roles / responsibilities

5. Caste system referred in Holy Gita

6. Idol worship

7. Concepts of Gita. Interpretation of Gita verses.

8. Some ghastly sins like foetus killing, bhoga pravratti, flesh eating, birth
control etc.

9. Vasudev Sarvam

The views of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj on the above are categorical, clear,
unambiguous, relevant and practical....and PERFECT, leaving no scope for their
denial or ignorance. That is a huge obstacle to organised and disorganised shop
keepers.

Of late, some members have started talking about America vs
India....unnecessarily. Some are categorical in their conclusion that : Hindu
religion/ Sanatan Dharma has failed. Some say : I am good others are not. Some
say : This Forum propagates discrimination of caste, gender !!! ha.....!!!
Actually, world today is inhabited by self proclaimed Gurus. When this Forum
says : No Guru is necessary, your Vivek or God only is your Guru....it appears
simple, but it is direct attack on SHOP KEEPERS , on people who have opened
shops for God Realisation....Particularly in Americas. Today the Gurus are there
in every street and corner of the planet. Mainly, in times to come, the Qs will
come on this topic. The ever increasing membership of this Forum and the perfect
solutions emerging from messages of Param Shraddheya Swamiji appear to these
establishments of Gurus to be big obstacle in their business. These
establishments also propagate BHOGAS , addictions and give false hopes to so
called disciples for a fees. Similarly, caste system laws are also being seen
with criticism....!!! People do not accept that BHOGAS can be renounced. It is
not possible for them to even take a step beyond BHOGA and SANGRAH ! There is
no respect to inner eye...everything is outer eye. Our religion is stated to be
orthodox and impractical. The fundamentals of our religion are opposed with
petty arguments. What is interesting to note is that criticism to our religion
is coming mainly from Non Resident Indians only....understandable !!!!So that is
how it is.

Let us get united...let us be correct, let us impart truth to the world. Let the
format remain as it is. Let us be prepared for more solid attacks. As the
membership increases, as the problems to humanity increase, so the need for this
Forum increases. As rightly said by Jayantilalji Shah...there is nothing which
is beyond the purview of Holy Gita. This is Gita Talk Forum. Let us continue to
be so....!!!! Let us be ready for any Question.....!!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


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Jai Sri Krishna !
I am Agree with Honourable Personality NB Vyas and Humbly Sadhak-We should only
concentrate on the Opinion of Sethji-Bhaiji-Swamiji and Geeta Press only-I too
found hard to get answer of my question from this forum and suggest to be more
Convinient For Questioner.But I got My answers anyhow and questions are least to
ask.I am very Grateful to all of you.
Basudev

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Humble submission :
Gita is claimed to be the only scripture that covers all aspects of human life,
hence there shouldn't be any restrictions on what Questions may be asked here in
this forum. Restricting the domain of Questions to mukti, moksha, realization,
austerity, spirituality etc. will imply that Gita is not now covering all
aspects of human life.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
Please forgive for poor English.
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As per Shree Vyasjee : This forum is Satsanga Forum.
Request is made to Gita-talk Owners to rename Gita-talk as Gita-Satsanga because
it is satsanga and not now talk any more..
Humbly, Saadhaka

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Whereas the sentiment expressed by the Sadhak is very understandable, since the
whole purpose of this forum is honest expression of unresolved conflicts in our
mind when the people with more, better or different onsite in that area express
their views. Then Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma PhaleshuЕ OR as He wishes We imbibe.
I sincerely wish that the Young Highly spiritual Sadhak would continue to
provide because who knows in such forum who benefits and how much.
Hemendra

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Om Namo Narayana

I have been reading the posts in this group for the last eight years and have
gained immensely. It not only clears doubts but also forces one to rethink some
of the preconceived notions/interpretations, etc. If we are truly seeking
self-realisation, how does it matter what is the source of the awakening or
inspiration? For beginners like me, reading, understanding and analysing the
scriptures on one's own seems daunting at timesЧthis forum addresses the myriad
questions that come to the mind. Truth needs no justification or support, it
exists regardless of allЧit is for the seeker to exercise his/her free will and
choose accordingly. The present format holds up the truth and nothing but the
truth...so my vote is for the format to continue as is...

Sadhak Sharmila

----------------------------------------------------

Here is another suggestion --

Post the question
Wait for 1 week for members to respond
Post the responses
Wait for another week for members to respond.
Post the responses.

Wait for another week.
Close the topic if there is no response from questioner.
Close the topic if questioner is satisfied.
Continue the topic if questioner needs further clarification. Got to step 1 if
questioner responds.

What if question results in more questions from the reader?
If reader's response require further clarification or if there are further
questions on reader's responses, then another thread should be opened.
The thread from the questioner should be closed in 2 weeks if questioner does
not respond or questioner is satisfied.

What if other sadhaks have same question and even though questioner is not
responding, other sadhaks doubts are not resolved.
My suggestion is that the question should be posted with new sadhak's name and
then, it will be his responsibility to respond and tell if his doubts are
resolved.

If you like my suggestion, then I have few more ideas. Don't want to waste my
time if this won't be implemented.


Regards,
Murari Das

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Hari Om

This forum is Satsanga Forum. It has no other agenda or motive except Satsanga.
It is not some social reform outfit, it is not some charity outfit, it is not
some political forum....it is pure, unadulterated, only SATSANGA FORUM. Here
Satsanga also has its own class which emerges effortlessly out of teachings of
Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj....one of the Greatest Saints
of Sanatan Dharma. It is that class, it is that selfless motive which makes this
Satsanga Forum to be truly a unique Satsanga Forum. Swamiji once said: As
Kaliyuga spreads its wings, people with Demonaic properties will inhabit the
earth in abundance, and that day is not far when there will be no Holy Ganges on
the planet, all teerthas except Kashi and Vrindavan will return to their abodes,
the publications by Gita Press Gorakhpur will cease...etc. Now this is scene of
time. In this backdrop, I do not see any any reason to make any changes in the
existing format of this Divine Forum.

Sure...there will be attacks on this Forum too. People will try to first
indirectly and then directly attack teachings of Swamiji and Holy Gita also. I
therefore do not get shocked when I see the recent phenomena on this Forum. Here
what is being talked? It is impossible to renounce BHOGAS. Did Swamiji ever say
so ? I am also finding that some people say ...Swamiji said so ..while actually
Swamiji did not say so. Now these type of things should be expected to increase
on this Forum. We have to suitably reply them and impart truths. As we all know
and discussed too..we should not worry as to whether the other person is
satisfied with our reply or not...we should continue to impart truth. That is
our duty...that is our goal. Let us therefore keep deliberating, keep speaking
Sat and never worry. Let me reassure all members of this Divine Forum: IT IS
IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND A FAULT WITH MESSAGES OF SWAMIJI SHRI RAMSUKHDASJI
MAHARAJ...IMPOSSIBLE ! HE IS PERFECT ....AS PERFECT AS GOD HIMSELF.

Hence keep going Divine Sadhaks...We are in Satsanga ....LET TRUTH PREVAIL. Keep
the format AS IT IS. Let any number of Qs follow. Keep SAT in focus. Never write
anything in the name of Swamiji unless you are sure about the same. We may give
our views freely, but to say that Swamiji confirms your views, if that is
incorrect then it is sin. Let us have that discipline and move
ahead...fearlessly !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

==================================================
Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar,

The text, whether from a book or from Geeta Q&A, is important. The questioner
should read the
texts from the replyers carefully. Most of the replies are in the form of
advices. It is very
easy to advise others, but difficult to bring those advices into practice.

So, I feel, let us continue as we are doing now. Only thing is that we must be
cautious in
asking questions and giving answers.

Gee Waman

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Questions should be restricted to concepts dealt with in Geeta. Questioner
should clearly state that while reading this holy text, I am unable to
understand meaning or how to implement study of Geeta in life with Spiritual and
Material advantage; or else I am faced with this problem and seeking advice from
participants how to solve this or face this in accordance with teachings of
Geeta. Any question outside the text although may be important in some other
context, should be discouraged. As Gandhiji and Vinobaji have summarised by
exhaustively studying the book and making sincere efforts to live up to it, and
have categorically stated that there is no question in life either political,
social , health problem or spiritual development whose solution is not found in
Bhagwad Geeta. I confirm this statement independently by my experience of last
75 yrs.
I was brought up in Saurashtra then Kathiawar ruled by number of native princes.
Maharaja Bhagwatsinhji of Gondal under whose jurisdiction my town Dhoraji came,
was deeply immersed in teachings of Bhagwad Geeta. As our school which was
affiliated to then Mumbai University did not have place for Geeta in curriculum
till Matriculation, he introduced Bhagwad Geeta as an optional subject from
Std.6 onwards. To encourage students to learn Geeta, he even instituted a scheme
of scholarships to those who opted for this subject.
I write this to state that he was greatly influenced by Gandhiji work in many
fields like political, social and spiritual and emphatic statement of Gandhiji
that Geeta provided solutions to questions in all fields of life.
Hence in this Satsang Group, questions should be restricted to Bhagwad Geeta
only or any question asked by Sadhaks should be replied by citing authentic
verse from Bhagwad Geeta. Also wherever possible, questioner should contact the
answerer to develop further.
Jayantilal Shah

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Jai Hanuman

There is nothing wrong in the existing format of this Forum. I have no doubt
that with extensive teachings of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, Holy Gita,
Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma and of Saints and Sages of our Eternal Religion (
Tulsidasji Maharaj, Mira Bai, Valmiki, Naarad, Jaidayalji Goendka, Sharananandji
Maharaj , Bhaiji Hanumanprasadji Poddar etc) ....there is no question which can
not be answered on this Forum. It is a service of very high order and of course
this Forum is SATSANGA Forum. Hence fearlessly , we must continue AS IT IS.

The present phenomena caused by Sanjeev, Murari Das and GB is too novice an
attack on this Forum. Here more prominent has been few facts only- like how is
one's mother, daughter or family ; how one enjoys both east and west; where does
obe lice, few quotes from Bhagwatam and few blanket remarks..,. That is it !.
The aggression in Sanjeev proved to be short living. It was to be so but the
intention is very clear. Here this man claimed before 30000+ learned members of
this Divine Forum : I HAVE RETURNED TO EARTH AFTER 8000 YEARS TO DISPEL
IGNORANCE.....!!! Divine Sadhaks...in times to come...you shall have more more
such claims, more such attacks, more such self proclaiming people.

Hence, Divine Sadhaks should be very vigilant and ready for more onslaughts on
this Forum, not because this Forum has done something wrong...but because we
have more negative humans today who relish anti-God talks and bhoga. The
association with 'material world' is also aiding to the same. The GARMI (
ahankaar) of living say in America or abroad is getting exhibited in a dirty
manner yet...but as this Forum does not believe in Guru cult which is spoiling
the very basis of spirituality today...you should expect more such attacks.
Divine Sadhaks must understand that livelihood of many Gurus gets on stake, when
such Forum , with ever increasing membership, silently imparts the truth.

Good...that for time being there is peace again !!! But , surely, more organised
attacks can be expected...!!! This one was too weak, insignificant and short
lived. At least when one opposes, some face savibg substance should be there,
there was none this time.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

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Dear Sadaks,
Questions to be related to values of spiritualism. Like if one asks- what will I
get if I realize? Do not answer or post the question. Reason selfishness.
Whatever cost I want to realize- How? Post the question. My son does on believe
in idol worship? Do not post the question as it is the responsibility of father
to first have knowledge and then ask us. We cannot peel the plantain for that
father. Sant Ramanujar wanted to know the concept of "Om Namo Narayanaya". He
served his Guru for years, then Guru taught him. The guru wanted to see the
depth of faith and then teach his disciple. Swamy Chinmayanadha went to Swamy
Sivanandha asked his to upadesh on self realization. He was asked to come after
two years. Chinmayanandha went exactly after 2 years. The swamy said to him to
meet his Guru Tapovan Maharaj at tapovan. He traveled by foot those days 7 days.
Tapovan Maharaj said to get letter from Swamy Sivanandha. Back 7 days and back 7
days to tapovan. Chinmayanandha was enlightened.
Only for Moderator I reply these and above.
Dharmaraj was asked by his Guru to travel 2 days and get bad people. Duryodhan
was told to travel 2 days to get good people. Dharmaraj came back and said
Nobody is bad. Duryodhan back and said NO ONE is good. Swamy Tejomayanantha
said:- Arjuna declined to fight because he discrimination of his own people.
Arjuna faught Gandharas without slightest discrimination and NO question asked.
Sri Krishna NO discrimination. Raaga and Duveasha are 2 big walls crushing us.
Seeing Bagavan Shiva amides two horns of bull in front Bagavan Shiva in temple
is a ritual. But we dont know we can see Bagavan Shiva only when Raaga and
Duvesha left. Many woman does NOT know husband is alternate roop of Bagavan.
They need not do pooja. It is from Sri Dharam script. Those days chaste woman
could make sun stop. I know a woman so chaste today that if she says rain and
rain comes. Another aspect our people fail to realize. See Sai Baba, Ramana,
Chirst, Pakad Baba, hati ram baba, samartha ramados pictures. They are not well
dressed- do not wear gold ornaments, looks like begger etc. But see today swami
with glossing cloths, hitec car, etc and people fall behind them. We cannot find
fault as that is Kaliyug. Kalipursh (Demi God) put question to Dharmaraj. An
elephant went through eye of needle but tail was caught. Dharmaraj then only
knew it is Kalipurush and Kaliyug starting and they have to leave. The elephant
is big big crimes today will pass through easily, but small and poor will be
caught and jailed. May be I am boring; Namaste.
B.Sathya

------------------------------------------------------



Moving individually on spiritual path is not that easy as walking in a park.
When one finds it difficult to take the group (masses) on walking in a park as
per own norms, what ease is there on spiritual path for it?
Humble suggestion is, pick up all good found in satsang for own good use instead
of trying to lead the group in any direction [Someone read on entrance of a
satsang hall - krupayaa jnaanakee baaten yahaan na karen, yahaan aanewaale
sabhee ekase badhakar ek jnaanee hain].
Better it would be to move with the group and not to try to move the group with
yourself, letting go all that is not agreeable to your own norms.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-------------------------------------------------------

>> On one hand we ourselves do not properly understand the point completely and
>> secondly, the person who we are telling, his attention is not on attempting
to
>> understand, but more on cutting the opposite party.

Is the person who wrote the comment trying to force his views on the questioner
or other readers? Does this person understand the point himself? Is this person
respectful to questioner's views?

I can take my example. I agree with most views expressed in sadhak messages. But
I cannot agree with exploitation of weak people based on race, caste, gender,
sexual orientation or any other outwardly attribute. One example is caste system
practiced by Hindus. I don't agree with the position of women in Hindu society.
Some followers also try to deny happiness and become depressed in name of sense
control. I believe that spirituality and dharma is supposed to increase
happiness of the self, family and the whole society. One should not use dharma
to propagate suffering, unhappiness and cruelty.

If someone propagates above views and forces upon others, then I cannot agree
with that person. It becomes serious if some commentator (like Vyas) who appears
to be quite knowledgeable of Gita propagates these kinds of views. Such person
cannot force us or any other sadhak to accept something which is against their
conscience.

Sri Sankracarya writes in Bhaj Govindam:

The same God dwells in absolutely everyone, where is the reason for any
disagreement. Bar none. See the identical soul in everyone. Come off your
conditioning.


Lets see the identical soul in everyone and respect other views. Lets respect
those who don't understand Gita and trying to do it. We don't have to understand
all the topics perfectly. We have this birth and many other births. So, lets
look at eternity of the self and not get frustrated and not be judgmental
towards others.

Regards,
Murari Das

--------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

So long as the Questioner is willing to attend and respond , let us tell him
about the truth. The moment he does KUTARKA ( bad arguments) , I will tell him
this is KUTARKA, and stop responding. His last message Kutarkas are ignored.
(see details in thread - Main Obstacle to God Realization is Attraction to
Sense Pleasures).
Answers to your further Qs will be given only upon receipt of response by you to
the above.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


--------------------------------------------------------
Today most of us are in a very disturbed mood being in a highly vitiated atmosphere with widespread corruption and not following ethics and values in our career etc. For instance recent incidence of one CEO being dismissed for his (supposed to lead from the front being the leader) immoral activities. 
Apart from reinventing ourselves so as to remain relevant we also need to goad and guide the youngsters who are future nation builders. Hence my suggestion would be, , while continuing to answer sadhaks queries lets share few anecdotes from our great epics so as to convey the message (like Ravana for abducting Sita amma) of what lies in store for us if we deviate from the path of Dharma. 
With respectful regards
DrAJagan Mohan Reddy

----------------------------------------------------------


Hari Om

Your very highly spiritual and very young Sadhak is right. No one on this earth,
including God Himself can make another person understand/accept something, if
that another person is not willing to understand or accept. Saints, Scriptures,
Teachers, Satsangis can tell you truth, but to accept the same or not IS THE
SOLE RESPONSIBILITY AND WILL of the individual. Revered Swamiji once stated the
characteristics of a fool...He said: A fool has two traits- 1 He himself does
not know / understand ( KHUD JAANATA NAHIN) 2 He does not heed to the others (
DOOSARE KI MAANATA NAHIN ) !!! One who has these two qualities is called FOOL.
Some listener asked then to Him: Swamiji...persons with above two qualities are
in abundance, in every home...now how to make them understand the truth..because
even if God Himself comes and tells him the truth, a fool will not understand
because he does not heed others, and God is other. Great Saint smiled and
replied: MOORKHANAAM AUSHADHAM DANDAM ( only medicine to cure a fool is
punishment ). Hence it is Mother Nature only which produces a punishment for a
fool and that only can cure the person with above characteristics. There are
many verses in Holy Gita also which define persons of the above two typical
traits. BG 16:8 / 9 and 18:32 readily come to memory.

I request Moderators to continue with this thread till the Questioner is fully
satisfied. I request the Questioner to freely deliberate on the subject and give
reasons for non acceptance. Whatever you have stated so far, We shall try to
answer. Problem is singular: No one can make other accept a thing. We can
deliberate, argue, but acceptance is sole prerogative of SOUL. Do you know Dear
Questioner that SELF can only accept or reject and can do nothing else? Are you
aware about this...? Know now this fact through this Divine Satsanga
Forum...!!!! Nothing in this world, no body can make other accept or reject. You
YOURSELF only can accept or reject. Still we shall try to give reasons to you so
that realisation may dawn upon you, God willing.

1 SHRUTIS say : EKAKI NA RAMATE ( God did not relish being alone). Hence out of
Himself only He created this Universe for PREM . All Jeevas are direct fragment
of God. Your Q is what is the cause of Creation of this world. Answer is : PREM
( Love). He created the world for PREM.

2 How can you say that by God Realisation you do not get enriched? Have you
realised God? No...! Then where is basis for your statement? Experiences arise
out of acceptance effortlessly...It is a law. Acceptance is the only cause for
your experiences. argue on this law...if you can !!! A thing which arises
effortlessly can not be your goal. Your goal has to be acceptance of TRUTH. Can
there be any better experience than the experience of PREM? Tell me...! This
PREM effortlessly arises in you, when you accept the truth: I AM GOD's , ONLY
GOD IS MINE, NOTHING ELSE IS MINE. Try it...not only you but everything around
you shall get effortlessly enriched. Or tell me any other way by which so called
humanity or civilisation can get enriched. Now answer...!

MIRAGE....what a beautiful word you chose. But there is one error not in the
selection of word by you but in its application. Mirage is not God but the
world...!!! HA...!!! You prove how God is MIRAGE or shall I prove how this world
is a mirage ? You choose who should initiate the deliberations. Ideally you
should set the ball rolling. Now answer....!

3 Those who do not have anger, those who love others, those who get pained by
sorrows of other....if according to you those people are disastrous for
society...then tell me What kind of people are not disastrous for society? Now
answer....!!!

4 Renunciation is not a loosing battle if your acceptance is real. Your
acceptance of false is real. Is not a dream real when you are dreaming? Is not
experience of a snake in a rope real when you have accepted the rope to be a
snake? Is not your acceptance of world real ? If that is real then how rejection
is unreal ? Now answer....!!!!

5 It is a law ( Come on Dear Questioner..!!! .) - You can not enjoy a thing , if
you are aware that the same is KHSANABHANGUR ( perishable/ momentary). It is a
law....Man !!! Now you prove how can you enjoy a thing unless you presume that
to be permanent. Else I shall tell you how the aforesaid law is LAW !!! It is
not the biggest folly of Indian philosophy....but if you have accepted that to
be so, it may be a biggest foolish acceptance from your end...!!! Now
answer....!!!

6 Are you dead or alive ? Now answer...!!!

7. Elucidate. So far your statement is incomprehensible. Who is Sherlock Holmes?
What does he do ?

8. Who is giving lectures to whom? We are answering your Qs. You invited us to
enrich you. We are doing so. Of course, both acceptance and renunciation are
effortless. They are KARAN NIRAPEKSHA. What efforts you made to renounce
childhood and adopt youth or renounce youth and adopt old age? What efforts do
you make live or die? What efforts did you make to accept the world as me or
mine? What efforts do you make to get connected or disconnected with body?

Entire para about knowledge is childish and irrelevant. It proves nothing. Did
Einstein say God does not exist? Why do you consider Einstein to be yardstick ?
What is the topic under deliberation? Can a child understand value and taste of
mango if it does not give up eating clay? How can perishable satisfy
imperishable?

Let us see how the Learned Questioner is falling within definition of Gita 18:32
!!! There is nothing wrong in permanent element getting satisfaction only by
permanent. It is COMMON SENSE ! But Questioner says: I challenge the assumption
that "for pleasure to be pleasure it has to be permanent"..,.this is REVERSE
INTELLECT. Questioner's insistence on VERIFICATION OF ASSUMPTIONS .,,,!!!
Ha..Questioner is advised to verify his own assumptions first...once he does
that...whole mirage will disappear. Worldly pleasures are not MAYA, your
acceptance of them to be real or permanent us maya. Renunciation of false
acceptance is not maya, your acceptance of false to be real is Maya. Read.,.O
Questioner... Ponder over.,.THINK ...!!!!

O Dear Questioner ! You are calling God as mirage and world to be real !!!
Totally reverse is the truth. Know now: The world is brought into existence due
to spiritual ignorance/stupidity. There is not even a little Reality there.
Satsanga discusses thus. The non discriminating quarrel about it. This world is
an event of a dream. What have you found in this world which is not transitory?
Life is as transient as the drop of water dangling at the sharp corner of a
blade of grass..,do you know? It is possible to encompass the air, break the sky
or string together the waves BUT not stay forever in life !!! You are talking
about sensual pleasures ? Oh....!!! In the string-tossed bodily cage of the
puppet doll of flesh, endowed with muscles, bones and joints, of a woman or a
man, WHAT GOOD IS POSSIBLY THERE? Tell me.,,.! See if it is pleasing after
separating the skin, flesh, blood, tears, eyes etc??? Why are you deluded in
vain ??? Insufficient is childhood, it is forcefully devoured by youth. The
latter is eaten away by old age. See this mutual cruelty. In old age, heart
burns indeed due to his poor capacity to enjoy !!! The cat that is old age, eats
the rat that is youth and you say I wanna enjoy this ? Incapacity, calamities,
thirst, dumbness, perplexed intellect, covetousness, restlessness and dejection
- all these exist in childhood. Appearance of youth is bright only for a moment,
which is temporary like the trembling and deep thunder of the clouds and the
lustre of lightening and of course , Inauspicious. It is pleasing only at the
current moment ! Not aware...??? Of what avail is wealth , of what use is
kingdom and what avail are body and things sought for? O Dear..even within a
certain number of days, time destroys everything. The God of Death, of cruel
behaviour , reducing to infirmity the body , swallows the mass of living beings
continually, JUST AS: A serpent swallows the air !!!

And you compare these bondage creating flashes of non existent pleasures (
actually only pains exist there all along..pure unadulterated pains and nothing
else except pains. It is stupidity that makes us see pleasures there ) with
BLISS associated in God realisation !!! How funny !!! Aaaah ...!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------------

Vyas >> People will try to first indirectly and then directly attack teachings of Swamiji and Holy Gita also.
Shashikala >> The present phenomena caused by Sanjeev, Murari Das and GB is too novice an attack on this Forum.

Misinterpretation of teachings of Gita should be clarified. Teachings may be right. But they can be used by wrong people to inflict more suffering and abuse. Then, that also needs to be clarified. The main principles of Krishna's message should be clear.

рд╢реНрд░реВрдпрддрд╛рдВ рдзрд░реНрдорд╕рд░реНрд╡рд╕реНрд╡рдВ рд╢реНрд░реБрддреНрд╡рд╛ рдЪрд╛рдкреНрдпрд╡рдзрд╛рд░реНрдпрддрд╛рдореНред
рдЖрддреНрдордирдГ рдкреНрд░рддрд┐рдХреВрд▓рд╛рдирд┐ рдкрд░реЗрд╖рд╛рдВ рди рд╕рдорд╛рдЪрд░реЗрддреНредред
If the entire тАЬDharmaтАЭ (spiritual and moral laws) can be said in a few words, then it is - that which is unfavorable to us, do not do that to others. (Padmapuraana, shrushti 19/357-358)

The above verse quote by Swami Ramsukhdasji in Sadhak-sanjeevini clearly states how social principles should be implemented. . You should treat others the way you  want to be treated.  Do not treat others the way you donтАЩt want to be treated

I am not sure how showing that Gita teaches us to treat others with love, respect, care, service and compassion is onslaught on the forum. It is good to talk about sense control etc but these principles of love and respect should not be violated. They come first. What is the use of BIG philosophy when one cannot follow simple principles of truth, love and respect.

тАЭрдЕрдпрдВ рдмрдиреНрдзреБрд░рдпрдВ рдиреЗрддрд┐ рдЧрдгрдирд╛ рд▓рдШреБрдЪреЗрддрд╕рд╛рдореН | рдЙрджрд╛рд░рдЪрд░рд┐рддрд╛рдирд╛рдВ рддреБ рд╡рд╕реБрдзреИрд╡ рдХреБрдЯреБрдореНрдмрдХрдореН || тАЭ
ayaс╣Б bandhurayaс╣Б n─"ti gaс╣Зan─Б laghuc─"tas─Бm | ud─Бracarit─Бn─Бm tu vasudhaiva kuс╣нumbakam ||
"This one is a relative; this other one is a stranger" is for the mean-minded. For those who're known as magnanimous, the entire world constitutes but a family.

LetтАЩs treat all people as they are our own family. Let us not change the principles of Gita.

I would like Gita Talk moderators to come forward and clearly state their understanding. From childhood, I treat the others the way I want to be treated.  At least I donтАЩt treat others the way I donтАЩt want to be treated. God within me taught me this principle and it has been the principle of my life which I cannot violate. I am very glad that Swami Ramsukhdasji/ Padma Purna / Mahabharat agree with me. If Gita-talk moderators don't agree, please clarify it. At least that way you will be truthful and you will be standing for what you accept as truth.

It is very important part of Krishna's teaching that He is within us and He guides everyone from within. Gita-Talk and other mediums are ultimately facilitators but God within us (cetya-guru) should be ultimate arbitrator of dharma. Let us not force anyone to follow anything which is against their conscience or God within. One might be wrong in the beginning but if one continues to follow one's inner guru, one will come to right understanding. Lets encourage all to truly follow their conscience. Padma Purana verse above is telling us the same thing. See within how you want to treated. See within how you don't want to be treated. Then, act how your inner conscience tells you. We all should follow the same principle and continue to check our understanding with God within. God within continues to teach me everyday and every moment and I find his teachings to be dynamic. The way I see reality now is much different than what I used to see 5 years ago and my realizations will continue to change in this lifetime and future lifetimes. Let us be respectful towards God within all beings and His guidance to them when we write in this forum.

Truth cannot be explained in the words. So, claiming that one person or one book has explained the truth is not correct. One should not claim that one can explain the truth in words as truth is beyond the words. Actually, it can be only negated by words instead of being explained by words.

It is very sad that Vyas etc believe that they know Gita/ Swamiji/ Bhaiji / Sethji. They can outwardly quote passages from their teachings. I might be wrong but it seems to me that still they don't realize the truth. The way they write they act as if they know all the truth. Greatest danger comes from the people who pose as know-er of truth even thought they don't know it.

Side topic regarding Sanjeev's question - I can quote many statements of Swami Ramsukhdasji. Swamiji is very clear that "attraction to sense pleasure" is not within us. Gita 2nd chapter states that accepting self as body is ignorance. Same way, accepting sense pleasure is part of one's self is ignorance. It does not matter whether one engages in sense pleasure or not.  Both people below are ignorant:


1) One who accepts sense pleasures are part of him and outwardly control them.
2) One who accepts sense pleasures are part of him and outwardly engages them.

Both #1 and #2 are ignorant. More important is to accept that sense pleasure are NOT part of us. Teachings of Swami Ramsukhdasji are not focused on action but focused on inner state of knowledge of self. Message to Sanjeev was not presented correctly and therefore, he had problems accepting it. Some people say that #1 is better than #2. That does not make sense and that is why Sanjeev asked question. Teachings of Swamiji are very easy to accept if proper teachings are presented in correct way. They can be hard to realize but I am sure that as long as we accept them, we will realize them in due coarse of time. 

One may ask that why I wrote about actions in the beginning of this email (respect, love, care, service etc) instead of accepting self as not body. The reason is follows:

Those people who see тАЬself as not body and see self (or God) as pervading in allтАЭ will not have sense of me and mine. They will automatically see all as one big family. Their outward action will automatically be of love, care, respect, service, truthfulness and other beautiful qualities. From material perspective, these qualities are needed to live in society. So, these qualities should always be followed whether we are in knowledge or ignorance. 

Regards,
Murari Das




==========================================


Dear Sadhnak,
Information becomes knowledge when we get right experience, no mater the
information comes from reading a book by self or by means of que-ans or by just
listening the truth.
If the person is discussing, or cutting others point , it is good, it shows that
the person is really interested in getting the point or at least he/she has some
information which while discussing/arguing becomes clear in his/her own head.
Some day with right experience it will become part of his/her own being, and
he/she will taste the Truth .Open discussion forum such as Gita gr provides a
platform for all seekers to discuss in depth solutions provided in scriptures
for all real life problems, o if we are willing, we can be benefited, if we are
not willing, no one can help.
Love, respect and blessings,
Sadhna

-----------------------------------------------------------



Hari: Om,
It is natural to have doubts in a serious seeker. Therefore, a spiritual master
should not disappoint such people by discouraging questions. No doubt, there
are people who pose questions not for their understanding but to measure the
knowledge of the master or to impress others with their knowledge. A spiritual
master can understand from the nature of the question, the intention of the
questioner and accordingly respond to his queries. From satsangs we get
spiritual knowledge in bits and pieces and, therefore, question answer session
should be an integral part after Satsang. Anyone one with intellectual mastery
over philosophy (there are many Deepak Chopras like men and women in the market)
can preach values but to satisfy a real seeker and to clear his/her genuine
doubts, question/answer should not be discouraged, otherwise it could be
misconstrued to mean that the master is a mere "His Master's Voice" and
disinterested in the real spiritual progress of his followers.
Coming to the subject that "main obstacle to God realization is attraction to
sense pleasures" is correct. Study of Vedanta helps the seeker's over indulgence
in sense pleasures. In fact as Swami Chinmayanandaji has stated "Vedanta does
not teach us to keep away from anything, but to keep in tune with everything".
Ignorance of one's Self, role of objects, misunderstanding that the pleasure
lies in the object etc. etc. are the reasons for our failure to face life
intelligently and fall pray to captivation of senses. Hinduism is a way of
living and one who follows it with proper understanding can avoid a lot of fall,
disappointments and displeasures in life.
Mohanair

----------------------------------------------------
jai shri ram

Agreed with Vyas NB.

I myself following  this group from last 4-5 years. I think we should continue
as we are.
No doubt people will come back with counter attack on teachings of Shradhey Shri
Ramsukhdas ji & geeta.

But fortunately we have many Sadhaks in this forum who can deal with this
counter attack & answer clarely.

What i feel...

Its same Bramh who is asking question in this forum and its the same Bramh who
is answering in this forum.

In this kalyug its some how difficult to get the correct direction in
spirtualism. Its natural if some one have many questions (one after one) I
myself had many & some of them been answered by this forum.

If the enlighten Sadhak's will stop answering then where people like me will go.
Who are busy in daily life have No physical Guru,chant only Ram naam & read some
books on spirtualism.

Its true that every answer is in Geeta but not every Sadhak is intelligent
enough to get that answer from Geeta.It does require God grace too..

With the help of this forum Sadhak's can give them answers or explain the Geeta
in a more better way so that they can understand.\

May be I am being imotioanl here but i would again request that do not put any
rules in this forum.

Please dont let the kalug effects in this forum...

Jai Shri Ram

Ami 

----------------------------------------------------------


Jai Hanuman

No one can make another understand anything or any truth unless another is
willing to understand. The independence of human birth lies there in ACCEPTANCE.
This entire creation is output of acceptance only. It is due to our faulty
acceptance of world as real, that we suffer the cycle of birth and death; it is
our acceptance that is sole reason for our sorrows. This acceptance of unreal as
real takes place from SELF and it is SELF only who is capable of RENOUNCING this
acceptance of false. The learned questioner here has accepted the false to be so
real that the real is appearing as false....and that precisely and squarely
falls within purview of Holy Gira verse 18:32 ! Actually, the sole cause of this
acceptance of world ( Gita 7:4/5) is AGYAAN/ STUPIDITY. When you get hugely
entangled in the MIRAGE of this creation, 18:32 of Gita, is natural outcome.

When for the first time we grasped this principle body/world being different
than SELF...it was unbelievable. But one progresses, starts discriminating, sees
the momentaryness of the creation equanimously, you acquire capability of
renouncing false acceptance. Learned Questioner can only be given reasons,
logic, rationale but to accept or not accept is sole willingness of the
Questioner.

What if the Questioner accepts the truths and renounces the false? He will get
liberated. What if he does not? He shall continue to remain bondaged !!!
Satsanga can only impart truths...NO ONE CAN MAKE ANOTHER UNDERSTAND...NO ONE,
INCLUDING GOD !

God can, but why He should? God never interferes in the INDEPENDENCE of Jeeva.
But Mother Nature does that. More you accept false, more sorrowful you get. The
laws of Mother Nature are such that disconnection starts from the very moment of
connection. Mother Nature keeps giving you signals regarding perishability,
KSHANBHANGURATA of the world but our solid acceptance of world as real does not
let us appreciate the TRUTH.

This solid acceptance is output of stupidity and nothing else..,because there
are SHRUTI ( History/ Scriptures), YUKTI ( Logic/rationale) and ANUBHUTI (
direct experiences of perishable, momentary world) to guide us....but ALAS..,BG
18:32 !!!! Only Nature can cure stupidity and no one else.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

--------------------------------------------------------------

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