Monday, July 8, 2013

[gita-talk] Perplexion related to recent Tragedy, seeking soulful answers

 

Aatmiya Sadhakas,

Few questions are haunting the mind in light of Uttarakhand tragedy, seeking soulful answers from learned Sadhakas. The questions are :

Why so many human lives lost at the same time ?  - Are their Karma ripe at the same time to give them same fruits ?


As per Antakale cha mam eva smaranmuktva kalevaram --  BG 08/05   would all these souls have attained liberation ?

People had gone for pilgrimage, to worship Lord Kedarnath and suffered. Is the Lord so cruel ? Then why worship Him because we know He is always compassionate. (Karunanidhan)


Please enlighten.

Jay Shree Krushna


-- 
Bhaskar Joshi

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Hari Om

When even a single human does not do his duty, derelicts from his duty...not only Demi gods but entire universe suffers a jolt...JUST AS: A slight breakage or defect in the wheel of a moving cart makes the entire cart get a jolt SIMILARLY: In this ever moving universe, a single dereliction of duty causes a huge shock , agitation and jolt to the functioning of Mother Nature. The result of such dereliction of duty are: Famines, natural calamities, excess rains, no rains, earth-quacks, Tsunamis, hurricanes..etc. 

JUST AS: When any ill part of body heals, recovers ...entire body gets relief, entire body feels peace , gets benefitted  SIMILARLY: When a human does his duty diligently, entire universe gets benefitted. 

The tragedies of the type witnessed in Uttarakhand recently should be viewed by Sadhaks with above perspective. We MUST never derelict from our duties. We must never interfere in the workings of Mother Nature. We must be in harmony with Mother Nature. The moment we try to be over smart, such tragedies will be the natural outcome. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear All,
Pl. note down the following message to search the missing relatives, unfortunately if any.
Ashok

Friends it is urgent...Google launched an online software from which people can search there missing relatives in Uttarakhand...and can also give information if anyone is found....till now almost 350 names have been registered.... please spread this link as much as you can... it may save few lives....!!
http://google.org/personfinder/2013-uttrakhand-floods

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Only fully realised souls can understand the reason behind this tragedy. To seek answer to this will lead to futile imagination. Krishna Bhagwan in Geeta Ch.7 verse 14 has said following verse.
Daivi hi essha Gunmayi, Mama maya durtyaya; Mam eva yaha prapdyante, mayam etam taranti te. Those who will surrender completely will get the answer; but they will not be able to tell that to others.Such answers are beyond words. 
Jayantilal Shah 


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Hari Om

Indeed, their karma were ripe at the same time to give them same fruits. I will explain the phenomena vide an example. Suppose in a Parliament a bill permitting say cow slaughter is passed. Suppose out of say 500 MPs , 300 were in favour and voted for cow slaughter. These 300 jointly committed a sin and hence when karma gets ripe to give results, all 300 will get punished. That is defining principle of Law of Karma. In Criminal Laws of the world also such punishment is provided for. 

Why so many human lives were lost at the same time? Actually, birth and death are a continuous occurrence in this MRITYULOK ( world/ abode of death). You have got attentive because it got noticed by you, otherwise human lives and deaths keep taking place every moment. Would all souls attain liberation? I don't believe so. The last moment phenomena / thought in almost all cases should have been of fear, of struggle to survive, not necessarily of God. If somebody thought of God at last moment, then surely he/she would get liberation. Still those who had pious belief in Him would attain higher position,..I believe so. Those who remembered Him at the last moment would get liberated also. But this is personal between those Jeevas and Paramatma. You have to either believe in Him or not believe in Him. 

People went for pilgrimage and died. So what ? Death can take place anytime anywhere. If God is cruel there, how then He is not cruel elsewhere? Had this been the yardstick, then who would live at any other place? Your yardstick of judging the cruelty or compassion therefore needs revisit. God is everywhere. Is He not there in Bars or Butcher houses? He is everywhere. Hence place does not make any difference to your birth or death. 

Who knows as to how Paramatma dealt afterwards with departed souls? In any case, where is any other in His eyes? Only HE exists. Nothing else exists. The soul is even otherwise immortal. Hence any change in belief due to the above tragedy is unfortunate. Note here by the way: Not all who perished had the intention of being there due to pilgrimage. Not all who were present there died. If you attribute the loss of life to Him, then what about those who still survived? To whom you will give credit for survivors ? 
By the way, who do you hold responsible for interferences in the workings of Mother Nature, ghastly sins such as foetus killing, cow slaughtering, polluting the waters of sacred rivers, air pollutions, birth control measures...animal slaughterings, green house impacts, global warmings etc ? Is Mother Nature so weak that it can not retaliate in its own way ? The kind of sins which humanity is incurring in present times, the incidences of the types referred by you are going to increase in geometric proportions. In times to come, and those times are not far away, there will be no Ganges on the planet, all pilgrimage gods except Kashi and Vrindavan will return to their abodes....what to talk of food, people will not get water even to drink. Terrible times are ahead of us...when seen with perspective of the sins which humanity is doing now. Where is need for rains ? Tell me where is need for rains, where is need for rivers? You need food grains for humans to eat but they are eating animals ! Where do they need food grains?  You need grass for animals to eat, but humans are eating them away...then why there should be rains ?  It is a principle: Necessity is the mother of inventions. What the humans are doing at present ? Not allowing humans to come on this earth by birth control measures, foetus killings ... and killing the animals ....where then is need for rains , order ? Humans want such incidences. Hence you can't find fault with God, demigods, and Mother Nature. One has to blame one's own self only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Sadaks,
There are prescribed to on Yatra. Those Dharmas are relaxed to only about 10%. To see your own dear one in intensive care, you put on a mask, wear clean cloths etc. So also to Yatra to these VERY holy places, there is prescribed ways to adopt and rules are informed by those days elders. By following them still if someone dies it is Moksha. But today Yatra spoiled the sanctity (Purity) of those divine places. How Yudhava, Dirdarasta, etc went to Kedradhi/Badri is explained in our scripts. One need to fast atleast one day before. One need to abstain from eating meat 90 days prior. Etc Etc. But today it is picnic spot. Devathas 33 (crore of Demi Gods) will not tolerate disobedience of dharmic procedures. These Devathas perform prayer 6 months from October to March. When these holy places are made dirty and polluted, the Dharma collapses, more and more devastation, human become 2.5 feet tall etc. Read Srimath Bagavath Last chapter.
B.S

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स्वामी श्री कृष्णानंदजी!
साधक जानना चाहता है कि आपका कथन ''it is written in shastras that if we pass away
in the place of pilgrimage we will reach heaven'' उन sinful sinners के बारेमें किस तरह लागू होता है जो किसी place of pilgrimage में आकर मरते (शरीर-त्याग करते) हैं?
शास्त्रीय प्रमाण पौराणिक होंगे, घटना (केदारनाथ त्रासदी) आधुनिक है, अत: प्रमाण भी आधुनिक चाहिये।
सविनय,
साधक 

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Nature's fury and man-made tragedies (intentional or otherwise) do not discriminate bad and good and they affect all within the periphery in one way or the other. How this can be related to Karmic theory is a difficult question that cannot be convincingly answered.  Pilgrimage is one of the ways to redeem our demerits and, therefore, how those suffered get rewarded by HIS laws is something beyond our comprehension.
Mohanair

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when we come to this   world the  date  our death is written and we can  not escape, we have to face all the trials and tribulations, agony and  the ecstacy...there is no shadow of doubt in it, all the pilgrimage  passed away are lucky, it is written in shastras that if we pass away  in the place of pilgrimage we will reach heaven, it was not a bad  death, river ganga has swept them away means she has cleansed all our  sins...nothing to worry  regarding destruction of property that is also written but if they had  followed the civl engineering norms not building in river banks it  would have been saved, greed is very very bad,pilgrimage now a days is  like visiting cinema hall which is very bad, you should struggle,  suffer to reach god, if you reach in your luxury car to the door step  of god what is the use of your tapasya, penance, in tamil they say  ''UIR KUDTA MADARI""" means when we shave our head the metal blade of  the barber will almost pierce and injure our scalp and the pain will  reach god, modern day razor, scissors and all fashion cutting by  barbers are imported from western culture  hence not to worry about the departed soul  pray for them  god bless you  swamiji -   SWAMI KRISHNANANDA
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साधकने पूछा है :
Why so many human lives lost at the same time ?  इसका उत्तर मनुष्य नहीं जानता। यदि कोई मनुष्य जानता है तो बताये कि अगला ऐसा एपिसोड कब होगा और कहाँ होगा और उसमें कितने शरीर मरेंगे?
Are their Karma ripe at the same time to give them same fruits ? ऐसा सोच भले ही लें, किन्तु कर्मकी गति अति गहन है, हम केवल उसकी चर्चा कर लेते हैं, सचमुच विश्वास कदाचित ही करते हैं।
As per Antakale cha mam eva smaranmuktva kalevaram -- BG 08/05 would all these souls have attained liberation ? इसका उत्तर भी मनुष्य नहीं जानता। यदि कोई मनुष्य जानता है तो नामोंकी सूचीबद्ध करके बताये। इसीलिये कह दिया जाता है कि परमात्मा जानें।
People had gone for pilgrimage, to worship Lord Kedarnath and suffered. यह कहना कि केदारनाथ यात्रापर जानेके कारण लोग दुःख और मृत्युको प्राप्त हुये, गलत है क्योंकि इसका कोई प्रमाण नहीं दे सकता। Is the Lord so cruel ? बिलकुल नहीं। स्वामीजीने कहा है कि मनुष्य नहीं जानता कि उसके किस कर्मका कब और किस रूपमें फल आयेगा। Then why worship Him because we know He is always compassionate. (Karunanidhan) यह आपकी मरजी। आश्चर्य है कि ''कुछ पानेके लिये'' ईश्वर-पूजाकी वकालत हो रही है। फिर वह पूजा नहीं, लेनदेन होगा।
पूजा तो वह है जिसे केवल दो ही जानते हैं, एक परमात्मा और दूसरा जिसे परमात्माने निमित्त बनाया; न कि जो स्वयं कर्ता (पूजा करनेका) बना जो वह कभी हो नहीं सकता [गीता 13 : 31 ].
अस्तु।
सविनय,
साधक 

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Can you see   that the tragedy is only psychologically uncomfortable to you?
Can you see that you want only a satisfactory answer for this only?
On seeing natural calamities or man induced negativities (terrorism and so on), one is apt to feel concerned. But the inquiry stops at complaining, blaming, feeling guilty or wating for goodfuture. Or one feels okay by some religious or scientific explanations. Can one go further and see.

If you are not satisfied by any explanations, the inquiry becomes intense-one comes just close to the Truth of Existence.

You and the world is bound as a singular process, enclosed process, the complete, self-sustained process-including what you dislike and like, fear and cherish. Mind comes under the illusion as if something does not belong to it.

Can one see that one is trying to escape the uneasiness of the situation by ideas, explanations? As if the irritating situation should not be there, but it is there like an insurmountable mountain before you. There is no way this irritation can be undone. No explanation is able to assuage the discomfort, the situation is giving you. Suddenly, the brain is charged. It is relieved at the peak of this disturbance.Transformation happens. It affects, transforms your whole world.

You are one with the mystery now. All questions drop.
Y V Chawla

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Dear Sir,
 Please note that all those that had gone to KEDARNATH तीरà¥à¤¥ यातà¥à¤°à¤¾ had not gone with same objective. In Marathi there is a saying that to तीरà¥à¤¥ यातà¥à¤°à¤¾ people go in three intentions; to fulfil their हौस, नवस किंवा गवस. They expected the results different. Gpd does arrange the end of people as they deserved from their करà¥à¤® etc. Accordingly their gathering was made possible there. 
To convince about various objectives of the people to attempt that तीरà¥à¤¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤¤à¥à¤°à¤¾, note the reactions of some who returned safely ,"We shall not go to this तीरà¥à¤¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤¤à¥à¤°à¤¾ again". If they wanted to go there as a तीरà¥à¤¥à¤¯à¤¾à¤¤à¥à¤°à¤¾ they would not have express their views in this way, isn't it?
With regards,
 ------Mukund Apte



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It is not about people who died. In Mahabharat war, tons of people died according to Krishna's plan.

What matters is how we treat those who are alive? Many children have become orphans. Can we adopt those kids or become foster parent to help? Do we let them suffer on the streets? Can we provide not just physical but emotional support to them? So, many women have become widow. Can we provide them financial assistance so that they can lead happy life? Can they marry again and lead good life? Can they get some jobs so that they can become independent? Can people who are financially good come forward, donate and help those who have suffered?

It is about how we treat others who are alive. You, me, sadhaks and people of the world can act with compassion, love and care. Actually, God has given us opportunity to do something. It is up to us whether we use that opportunity or not.

What do you think Bhaskar Joshiji?

Regards,
Murari Das

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In recent times, visiting piligrimage centres is more of a tourism activity and one of the very materialistic activities. I am not saying it is wrong. Whatever we sow, we reap.
Humbly
veena

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