Saturday, June 8, 2013

[gita-talk] Who is Arjuna in the Gita - Need Clarification !

 

Everything is appearing jumbled up.  

On one hand Swamiji says -  "We must not even keep a resolve" then on the other hand he says "in doing we must be careful"
In Gita too on one hand Krishna says "Karmanyevaadhikaaraste..." (2/47),  "Your right is to work only,"(2/47) , then on the other hand he says "Na karoti na lipyate...."  " it neither acts nor gets tainted." 
Swamiji says "doing is also karma, and not doing is also karma"  I understand this,  however,  when the "self" does not do is it the experiencer, then who does Krishna say to that "your right is only in doing your duty (karma)?  In other words,  in Gita who is this Arjuna?   (spirit or the body).   
In pictures everywhere, you only see his body listening to the instructions from the Gita.  

Humbly,   Sadhak

IN HINDI    

सब कुछ गड्ड-मड्ड हो रहा है।
एक ओर स्वामीजीने कहा है,''अपना संकल्प भी नहीं रखना है।'' फिर दूसरी ओर कहा है,''करनेमें सावधानी रखनी है।''
गीतामें भी एक ओर कृष्णने कहा है,''कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते ...'' (२:४७), फिर दूसरी ओर कहा है,''न करोति न लिप्यते ..."
स्वामीजीने कहा है,''करना भी कर्म है और न करना भी कर्म है।'' यह तो समझमें आता है, किन्तु जब स्वयं न करता है
और न भोगता है तो कृष्णने किसे कहा है कि कर्म करनेमें ही तेरा अधिकार है? अर्थात गीतामें यह अर्जुन कौन है? [आत्मा अथवा शरीर]
चित्रोंमें सब जगह उसका शरीर ही दिखाया गया है गीताका उपदेश लेते।
सविनय,
साधक 

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Every thing gets jumbled up because we do not look at the messages carefully. What Krishna says is that none can be without work. The inherent gunas and the environment will force each entity to work most natural for each. There is no way to avoid work: inaction is impossible. He says next the outcome from work/ action does not depend only on the work or the action for any action is done in a background, a context and under circumstances that consists of actions of so many entities and elements in the environment of a person. So, he says, to worry about the consequences or results of work or action, though natural amon human beings, is pointless. Third, He says that given the above the only way to deal with the dilemmas of choosing actions is not to worry about consequences but do what one is inclined to do as per one's own natural property (dharma) in the context of the emerging environment. Since, a Kshatrya has only one property inherent in him in the emerging situation of War - that of fighting as best as he can, Arjun should fight and not waste time and energy worrying about the consequences of fighting. It is best to submit all worries to God by submitting all actions to God and remove the ego that one is really deciding to dio and really act on his own. The belief should be that whatever one does is what God has willed through the natural system of imparting gunas (properties, attributes and inclinations) to each person. That is the best way of perfrominh work: Karmo Yoga.
It is so simple and so bluntly true. There is no scope for confusion except the natural human property or guna to get confused as did Arjuna find.
 Basudeb Sen
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Here is an excerpt from Sringeri Jagadguru's Bhashan ...
 
The Jagadguru said that Srimad Bhagavad Gita that carries the essence of the Upanishads, was given by the Lord using Arjuna as an instrument. That is why it is said:
सर्वोपनिषदो गावः दोग्धा गोपालनन्दनः ।
पार्थो वत्सः सुधीर्भोक्ता दुग्धं गीतामृतं महत् ॥
Here, Arjuna is compared to a calf that drinks the milk of Gita from the cow of the Upanishads, with Bhagavan Sri Krishna being the milker. Arjuna is called the calf because the calf is the first to get milk from its mother. Subsequently, the cow gives milk to everyone else. Similarly, every Astika is capable of savouring the milk that is nectar of the Gita.

Ramu Vempati

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Humble submission :

Shree Basudeb Senjee!
Your first sentence is : Every thing gets jumbled up because we do not look at the messages carefully.
Please explain first who is this we? Body or Soul?
Shree Ramu Vempatijee!
Nowhere in Gita itself, Arjun has been compared as calf of a cow. Question was Who is Arjun? A Soul or A Body?
Prasad A Iragavarapujee!
You are wrong. In Saadhaka Sanjeevanee Swamijee says : Bhagwanane Arjunako apanee vibhooti bataayaa hai NOT that Arjun is Krishna. Moreover Krishna was Yaduvanshi, NOT a Paandava.
Shree Vyas NB jee!
What is this Jeeva? If Arjun is Jeeva, then all pictures of Arjun in books published by Gita Press are absurd as that Jeeva has been pictured as a human being. How shall you picture a Jeeva? Please tell Gita Press also.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
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Dear Confused Sadak Ji & ALL,                            Namaskar!    No, nothing is jumbled! There appears somewhat misunderstanding of the words  Lord Krishna has said in Bhagvadgita. The first saying "Karmne va Adhikarashte"  is for the Mind and intellect cover (Manomai Kosha, one of the five Koshas Lord  is covered with to become a JEEVA) Lord in you is carrying while; second part  "Na karoti na lipyate...." for the Lord itself. Meaning, all physical & cultural  rules and regulations are set and effected by mind only while Lord which is  beyond mind is not touched by those set all physical & cultural rules and  regulations.    So to conclude, I would say Arjuna is nothing but Mind of Lord which need be  trained    KULDEEP.K. KAUL
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Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna. 
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka regarding Arjuna. 

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavadgita,
"Pandavanam Dhananjayaha"
         Gitaji(10, 37)
Which means
'Of all the Pandavas, Krishna ,Himself is Arjuna. '

Then the question would be, did He preach Bhagavadgita to Himself. 

The reason Arjuna asked these questions is , not for himself but he wants us , the mankind to know. 

In Gnana Yoga,
The Lord Krishna says,
" Imam vivaswate yogam,
  Prokta vanahamavyayam
  Vivaswanmanave Praha
  Manurikshvakave braveet"
         Gitaji(4, 1)
Which means,
' Lord Krishna preached this yogam to Vivaswan who is Sun God. Sun God preached this to Manuvu and Manuvu preached this to Ikshvaku. '
But this is lost in time. Hence Lord Krishna preached this to Arjuna.  The main purpose of this preaching is,for the mankind to know. 
Let us enjoy this Divine scripture, practice it, preach it and advance spiritually which will take us to His Abode, in the end. 

Thank You. 

Prasad A.Iragavarapu, MD

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dont break your mind   everything is okay just think of god in every  beath that is it he will help if you have faith, doubting things will  not take you anywhere  god bless you  swamiji  

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Hari Om

You are not distinguishing between "PURE SELF" ( AATMA) and "JEEVA" ( embodied soul) properly. In interpretation and understanding of Gita, the distinction between Pure Self and Jeeva should always be kept in mind. "In doing one must be careful" - this statement is with reference to Jeeva ! "NA KAROTI NA LIPYATE" is with reference to PURE SELF. 

In Gita , Arjuna is Jeeva ( embodied soul).  KARMANYE VA ADHIKARASTE is with reference to Jeeva.

 There is no conflict also between " we must not even keep a resolve" and BG 2:47 ! " Resolve" here means KAAMNA ( sankalpa). You can do Karma without KAAMANA also. 


Yes....! Inspite of Self being fundamentally not doer, since he has accepted affinity with body, he suffers the experiences. Actually, self has no capacity to do. It has only one capability: To accept or to reject ( other words frequently used in Scriptures: to connect/disconnect; to associate/ disassociate; to adopt/ renounce etc). Self has power of "acceptance". Experience comes to him as effortless result of  utilisation of power of "acceptance/rejection" by him. Self has a permanent guide....VIVEKA. Self can heed to its voice and take a call by rejecting false acceptance, or by correctly accepting the truth. ( It is another matter THT Jeeva frequently disregards VIVEKA and relies upon mind/ intellect which are false...and thereby suffers, suffers and...suffers).  So long as, Self does not correctly utilise his power to accept/reject, sorrowful or delightful experiences will continue to become part of his direct experiences because it is a law: Experience follows acceptance. World appears to you as you have accepted it to be. God also approaches you, exactly as you have approached Him. Hence it is a law.  You become BHOKTA, if you assume yourself to be KARTA...naturally and automatically. 

JUST AS: While two cars , made of steel ( inert) collide with each other, causing an accident on the road, they do not get punished by law. Punishment is given to the Drivers ( sentient) of the cars, because they formed affinity with the cars. 

SIMILARLY: While bad actions are done by the body ( inert) , the consequential experiences of sorrows accrue to Self ( sentient). Self  experiences then the sorrows, because Self formed affinity with body ( accepted the body to be me/mine).

Are you clear Dear Sir ?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In bhaarata and Gita Arjuna "represents" a human being who is by nature in Dvividha or Dilemma. Using Arjuna as an example (nimitta maatra) Bhagavad gita elucidates how a human ought to live particularly in utilizing his talent and duty. KarmaNi eva adhikaaraste means your duty is to act. That action shd be done as duty and not for enjoyment of the fruit. Fight as it is your duty to resist evil rule of Kauravas but not think of the royal comforts that accrue to you as a result of the fight. Bheeshma and others are decent peopl, no doubt but they have been bitten by a false sense of fidelity and hence they are dharma chyuta. The dharma champion shd not grieve for them. In fact they are dead as soon as they sided with adharma.
I am afraid I do not know what swamiji said in this context.
This is mt answer to "who is arjuna in Gita?"

Samudrala Krishna

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One acts and seek relief through the result as if action is compulsion. Can one see that this relief is illusory?

Whatever calculations you may make, whatever information you may collect-you can not escape or undo the unknown-the margin between action and outcome. To be comfortable with this margin is your attunement to the Original, to all possibilities. Now any action or no-action is relaxed and conscious.
Y V Chawla


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Oh !Honourable Sadhak
Siyarammaya Sabjag Jani Karahun Pranam Jodi Jug Pani !
I know Nothing and I had been Inspired by U too.But I Think U are not asking but only making us to think about Shastra.Now I am coveted to write Some thing.There is nothing Jumbled up.we have nothing to resolve if there seemed resolved or headed to do something then there is necessasary to be Cautious(SABDHAN).The body does not stay without doing somethimg but we need not worry about it because if we are not joined with doing or undoing something then only the Nature(PRAKRUTI) is Doer(Karta) and then we are not credited of it.when we do nothing or think nothing then automatically we are merged or engrossed in God Parmatma but if we can not stay without thinking or doing something then it is necessary to think about god and do the work of god-That is all.There are some Compulsory action Like Nittya Karma and Naimittik Karma-In my opinion (I do not know-How far I am Right) Only the duty of ours is to be ready for Gods work-Whether the cercumstance may complete it or not.I am Nepali and can not Express in Good English and all the criticism on my Knowledge concerning to English Knowledge and Scriptural Knowledge are Welcome ! Please Accept my Bow to your Lotus feet !
Basudev

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Hari Om

You are not distinguishing between "PURE SELF" ( AATMA) and "JEEVA" ( embodied soul) properly. In interpretation and understanding of Gita, the distinction between Pure Self and Jeeva should always be kept in mind. "In doing one must be careful" - this statement is with reference to Jeeva ! "NA KAROTI NA LIPYATE" is with reference to PURE SELF. 

In Gita , Arjuna is Jeeva ( embodied soul).  KARMANYE VA ADHIKARASTE is with reference to Jeeva.

 There is no conflict also between " we must not even keep a resolve" and BG 2:47 ! " Resolve" here means KAAMNA ( sankalpa). You can do Karma without KAAMANA also. 

Are you clear Dear Sir ?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Sadhak,
Hare Krishna

     The same questions were mine but twenty years back. It seems that Shri Gita is ambiguous but now everything is as clear as crystal. God Krishna is absolutely right and His Preachings in Shri Gita are absolute Truth.Just immerse in the Holy Deep Nectar Ocean of Shri Gita. God Krishna Himself will explain you in very easy way. Just surrender yourself at the Lotus Feet of My Lovely God Shri Krishna.
 
You are Arjun--the seeker of Knowledge Nectar.
Best of Luck

Mahesh Sharma 
New Delhi

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CAREFUL RESOLVE FOR GOOD JOB WITHOUT FEAR&FAVOUR INORDER TO ESTABLISH RULE/LAW &FIGHT AGAINST POWER HUNGRY/ SELFISH WAS REQUIRED WHICH ARJUNA THE WARRIER COULD REALISE AFTERHEARING FROM LORD KRISHNA. ARJUNA IS A CHARACTER NATURE WHO WAS TAUGHT TO FOLLOW PATH OF RIGHTOUSNESS BY THE LORD .

N. PANDA

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see the different references one thing is said. 
same words has different meaning according to context, like the hindi words : 
roko  mat jane do.
&
roko mat  jane do.

for learning gita, it is better to know krishna first, through sri bhaagwatam mahapurana and mahabharata.
humbly
daasaanudaas
shri krishna-daas kinkar

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