Saturday, June 29, 2013

[gita-talk] Re: What exactly Bhagwan wants us to Do in Chapter 9 called as Rajvidya?

 

Shree Hari Ram Ram

This brings closure to this topic. Thank you all !  Reposting -  some postings were missing.  
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

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Dear Sadhaka,

i have two queries regarding 9th adhyaya of Gita Ji.

First query is here.

Bhagwan says "Rajvidya rajguhyam pavitramidam uttamam, pratyakshavgamam dharmyam
susukham kartum avyayam"

here Bhagwan has not said GYATUM, istead he says KARTUM.

Question: What exactly Bhagwan wants us to Do in this chapter which is called as
Rajvidya?


with warm regards

Dharmendra Sharma

-----------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

RAAJ VIDYAA - pertains to Nirgun Paramatma, RAAJ GUHYA- pertains to Sagun
Bhagwaan. Chapter 9 is continuation of Chapter 7, where Lord vowed to impart
knowledge regarding SAMAGRA Paramatma. Samagra- means universal, means both
Sagun and Nirgun. Guhyam...means secret. RAAJ - means sovereign, RAAJ GUHYAM-
therefore means " sovereign secret" . Similarly, RAAJ VIDYAA- means sovereign
science. Why it is called SECRET? Because, God is not AHANKAARI. He is telling
you the Truth with a hesitation. He is hesitant because what He states in
Chapter 9, people may dub Him as " Self praiser". Hence He wants you to be first
ANASUYAVE ( devoid of the carping spirit...one who is not having DOSH DRISHTI -
one whose eye is not set on finding faults in others ). What God has stated is
SECRET knowledge. Any one who does not detract from the merits of those
possessing merits, praises even those of scanty worth, and does not take delight
in the faults of others is said to possess the virtue of ANASUYA. Thus...he
alone who has faith in Him, and is free from the fault finding spirit , is ONLY
qualified to received the instructions contained in this Chapter 9. One who is
lacking in faith is NOT QUALIFIED to receive this RAAJ VIDYAA- RAAJ GUHYAM 
knowledge. In BG 18:67 , The Lord explicitly states that the teaching of the
Gita should never be imparted to one who finds faults with Him.

What is secret ? ALL IS GOD....this is secret ! The world is apparently dual. But the substance in the world is Paramatma. Like mehandi, world is green in appearance, but inside the redness ( laali) of Paramatma is in abundance in it. Vasudev Sarvam....is the top most secret knowledge ! It is dangerous, as per Scriptures also, to impart this knowledge to unqualified ones. Huge chaos can emerge if Vasudev Sarvam is practiced by unqualified ones. Hence , God asks Arjuna to become ANASUYA first.  Further, while you can ACCEPT that all is God anytime, but the experience comes to you only after you have liberated and only if you are ANASUYA, ie you don't insist for your way and contradict others. 

Now take up this SAT, ASAT talks in Gita with reference to Paramatma. God says in Gita 13:12...NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE ( I am said to be neither SAT nor ASAT). In 9: 19..Lord says .. SAT ASAT AHAM ARJUNA... ( I am SAT as well as ASAT ). In 11: 37, Arjuna observes regarding Lord... SAT ASAT TAT PARAM  YAT ( You are beyond SATand ASAT). SImilarly apparently contradictory talk comes in 9:4/5 ...on one hand Lord says MAT STHANI SARVA BHUTANI NA CHA AHAM TESHU AVASTHITAH ( All Jeevas reside in Me, but I am not in them)  but on other hand He says : MAYA TATAM  IDAM SARVAM JAGAD AVYAKTA MURTINAA ( This world is pervaded by un manifest Me) . Chapter 9 solves all these perfect statements by Him, which apparently appear contradictory.


Glorious indeed is knowledge depicted in this Chapter.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna. 
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka, regarding the second slokum in the ninth chapter of Bhagavad Gita, which is Rajavidya Raja Guhya yogam. 

Here Lord Krishna says , this knowledge is eternal,moral, sacred, most confidential, easy to execute(practice) and can be learnt from self realization. 
The word ' Kartum' means easy to execute that is practice. Here The Lord is talking about devotional service. There are nine ways of devotional service but the easiest and most practical for this Kali Yuga is Chanting of the Holy Names.

Let us chant,
" Hare Rama Hare Rama
  Rama Rama Hare Hare
  Hare Krishna Hare Krishna
  Krishna Krishna Hare Hare. "

and advance spiritually. 

Thank You. 

Prasad A. Iragavarapu, MD

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Hari Om

Really a good question. It is for such quests that this Divine Forum stands for.

" KARTUM"....what does God want you to do? God says it is very easy to do ! What
is easy to do? Everything pertaining to RAAJ VIDYAA and RAAJ GUHYA is easy to do
!!!! It is easy to do because it is already received. There is no effort needed
there, ONLY acceptance of truth is needed. How easy !!!! From point of view of
Karma Yoga...what kind of difficulty can arise to us in giving to others...that
thing which does NOT belong to us, and which, belongs to others ? How easy? From
Jnana Yoga point of view...what difficulty or labour is needed in situating in
your own self ? If we can not position in ourselves, what else is easy ? From
Bhakti Yoga point of view...what pains are there in turning towards that who is
our own? What difficulies a child has to encounter in going into the lap of its
mother ? Isn't that very easy? Read 26th verse of same chapter. What great
efforts or labour one has to put in giving to Lord...PATRAM PUSHPAM PHALAM TOYAM
?

Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga are RAAJ VIDYAA. Bhakti Yoga is RAAJ GUHYA. In the 4th
and 5th verse of same chapter 9, RAAJ VIDYAA is mainly described while in 34th
verse RAAJ GUHYA is described. The results are direct, obvious and clearly
demonstrable. Peace comes to you by Karma Yoga. Liberation comes to you by Jnana
Yoga and a Bhakta...Bhakta becomes fearless, worryless, griefless and doubtless
effortlessly. In a fraction of a moment....the vilest sinner becomes DHARMATMA (
BG 9:30/31). In KSHIPRAM time....!!!! Isn't that easy? Just one resolve...one
effortless acceptance....I AM GOD's , ONLY GOD IS MINE, NOTHING ELSE IS
MINE.....that is it ! If this is difficult then what is easy ?

Hence The Lord says: It is very easy to follow Karma Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Bhakti
Yoga.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Jai Hanuman

Sure...a common man can not see Bhagwaan in a piece of clay ...!!! But we can
accept this fact anytime. SHRADDHAWAAN LABHATE GYAANAM...says Gita..one who
believes, gets knowledge. Hence your power of belief needs to be exercised. None
of us can say on the basis of "knowledge" as to who is our this birth father...!
We believe only. As we believe and accept, later on knowledge comes effortlessly
to us...as our walking, talking mannerisms, body etc start resembling mannerism
, attitude and style of our father...! It is a law: Every acceptance creates
experience. When you accept a rope to be a snake, there is experience of fear
instantly in you,..irrespective of the truth that it is rope not snake ! Such is
the effect of ACCEPTANCE.

Hence believe ALL IS GOD , later on , based on solidity of your
belief/acceptance, the experience will follow , effortlessly.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

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Moderators have asked for suggestion to improve Gita talk discussions in another
post. My suggestion is that moderators should ask further questions on
questioner's understanding of the question. I am sure that Dharmendra has read
Gita and deliberated on this topic. He already has some understanding of the
answer of this question. Internally, he must have tried to answer this question.
I will request Gita-talk moderators to ask Dharmendraji to provide his
understanding of "what Krishna wants us to do in Chapter 9?" and then, post the
question.

There are hundreds of ways to answer this question. Answer to this question
depends on the level of advancement of the question.

In general, Krishna does not want us to do anything. One cannot attain moksha
(or whatever name you give) by doing anything. The true self is already in state
of eternity, knowledge and bliss. At the same time, Krishna wanted Arjun to
fight even though self (Krishna, spirituality) is beyond any action. In the same
way, Krishna wants us to lead life of love, respect, gratitude, care and service
to all living entities as He is present in all living beings. Understanding His
presence in all being and leading life based on this understanding is what
Krishna wants us to do.


Regards,
Murari Das

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Real Raj-Vidya is to chant Hari Nam. In the beginning it can be 10 mins. in the
morning and 10 mins. in the evening. These 2 times are known as Sandhi-Kala or
Sandhya. They are when day passes into night and night passes into day. At that
time, it is easy to calm down the chattering mind a little bit and join it with
chanting of Hari-nam. Later on as practice develops, 2 Ekadashi remain on fruit
diet, do some Swadhyaya and then spend some more time on chanting Hari Nam.
Slowly increase the time and duration and when retiring from active life, one
can have ceaseless chanting of Hari Nam.
Gandhiji when he was 6 or 7 yrs., old was taught to chant Ram-Nam by his maid
servant and later in the turmoil of freedom struggle, he writes that one of the
source of his strength was chanting of Ram-Nam whenever there was no visitor.
He says that one of the principle strength in his prolonged and risky political
career was Ram Nam. Even when he was shot down by the assassin, last words which
were uttered by him was He Ram.
Same is the case with Ram-Krishna Paramhansa whose strength came from constant
chanting. This being very simple, people ignore it as superstition. Hence,
Bhagwan has called this Vidya - Guhya - i.e. not so evident. It is also Raj
Vidya, because it makes you the master or king of your own consciousness. When
that state comes, Kings come and bow before that person. Famous example is of
Tukaram Maharaj who by only chanting the name of Vithal acquired such an
enormous spiritual strength, that Shivali Maharaj sent Palkhi to honourfully
bring him to Royal Court. It is said that Shivali Maharaj did Charan Sparsh of
Tukaram Maharaj before he entered the court.
Entire ch.9 is the essence of any true religious practice. I have only dealt
with ending verse 'man-mana bhav.... But entire chapter is to be studied
repeatedly every month. More so in Chaturmasa or on Ekadashi day. Results will
be astounding. Only caution is Patience and the capital required in this
business is 'Perseverance'
Jayantilal Shah

------------------------------------------------------

Respected Sadhakas,
i am sharing here what i understood about 9th adhyaya by the grace of Pujya
Shri Hanuman Prasad Poddar Ji. Kindly correct me if i am wrong.

in the beginning of the chapter Bhagwan describes the cardinal feature of
Rajvidya as "susukham kartum", means it is very easy to be followed.

actually there are two points in the initial two shlokas, one is "yajgyatva" in
first shloka, that means after knowing that.

So Rajvidya is about knowing something and to practically follow it and it is
very easy and pleasurable to do so.

We should not confuse Rajvidya with Advait sadhan, or Gyan yog (although these
are very divine and highly enlighting paths), because in 12 th chapter Bhagwan
says' "Avyakta hi gatir dukham dehavadbhih avaapyate" means the sadahana of
avyakta Brahman is vey difficult. But here in 9th Chapter Bhagwan says about
Rajvidya as "Susukham kartum". therefore Sadhana of avyakta, nirakar can not be
mentioned as Rajvidya. (it may be better or equal to Rajvidya, here nothing is
against any particular Sadhana maarg, but it is an inquiry into the true meaning
of Gita with an open mind and heart)


I would like to share some insights regarding the Knowledge part and the Action
part in the next postings.

Regards

(as understood by the grace of Pujya Shri Hanuman Prasad Ji Poddar)
Shri Krishnarpanamastu

--------------------------------------------------------


Answer to 1: to perform (kartum) and not only for knowing (Gyatum) ;
Answer to 2: This is the king of all the yogas which leads Sadhak to understand
the result "here and now" itself.
According to me, one has to learn the technique initially from Guru.

Barin Chatterjee

------------------------------------------------------------


Jai Shri Hari,

Respected Sadhakas,

The knowledge part (up to 10 th shloka) is well described in all the tikas
except one point.

and that point is that in shloka 5 the meaning of "Pashya me yogmaishvaram" is
not explained in right perspective. (from the perspective of common man).

The right explanation from the perspective of common man like me is as follows:

"all this creation is originated from God and he is there in every thing and
everthing is in him (as said in the 7th chapter also "mattah partaram na anyat
kinchidasti Dhananjay"). But despite being so i am not present in them and they
are also not present in me, BECAUSE I HAVE HIDDEN MYSELF FROM THIS MATERIAL
CREATION BY THE MIGHT OF MY YOGMAYA". (as Bhagwan also mentioned at some other
place in Geeta: NA AHAM PRAKASHAH SARVE YOGMAYA SAMAVRATAH).

This fact was not delineated in other tikas as per my knowledge because all the
tikas are mostly written by God-realised saints. and from the vision of saints
the God is always manifest in everything, God is never hidden, it is manifest in
everything.

But a common man like me, can not see the God in a piece of clay(although it is
very much present there). and moreover The characteristic feature of God is that
he is full of love, bliss and knowledge, but i see none of these value in a
piece of clay in what ever way i examine it. (it is manifest only for the
enlightened souls, including Gyani, Yogi and Bhakta).

AND GITA IS NOT SAID FOR YOGIS ONLY, IT IS VERY MUCH FOR A COMMON MAN.

Then what should a common man do realizing God in everything with Gyandrishti is
difficult?


Humble regards

Shri Krishnarpanamastu

-------------------------------------------------------

Respected Vyas Ji,

In the beginning of the adhyaya Bhagwan says "राजविदॠया राजगॠहॠयमॠपवितॠरमॠइदमॠ......". 

Here Bhagwan uses the word "इदमॠ" (ठकवचन)instead of "ठतामॠ" (बहॠवचन).

That concludes that Bhagwan is talking about one thing only, and "राजविदॠया" and "राजगॠहॠयमॠ" are same. "राजगॠहॠयमॠ" seems to be only the adjective of "राजविदॠया" and not a separate entity itself, as indicated by the use of the word "इदमॠ" by Bhagwan to describe it.

Please correct me if i am wrong.

the word "विदॠया" itself has two meanings:
1. the Knowledge
2. Some technical Skill

and the second meaning also needs the first to apply it. means no skill is perfect without knowing the theory.

as Bhagwan uses the word "गॠयातॠवा" in first Shloka and then "करॠतॠमॠ" in second shloka. and this fact is further concluded in the 13th Shloka of this chapter where bhagwan says, "भजनॠति अननॠयमनसो गॠयातॠवा भूतादिमॠअवॠययमॠ".  and regarding "राजविदॠया" Bhagwan says that it is very easy to prctice, "सॠसॠखं करॠतॠमॠ". 

So it concludes that the गॠयान described in this chapter is only to support the skill part भकॠति.

and the meaning of "राजविदॠया" in one sentence should be:

Worship of the Bhagwan with full शॠरदॠधा about him to be present in everything.

i want to use the word शॠरदॠधा here and not the word realization. Realization is a part of Gyan yog, and the realization is difficult to achieve, as said by Shri Krishna in 12 adhyaya, "अवॠयकॠतः हि गतिरॠदॠखमॠदेहवदॠभिरवापॠयते". and also indicated in the beginning of the  cahpter 9 th when Bhagwan describes about राजविदॠया as "अशॠरदॠधानाः पॠरूषः धरॠमसॠयासॠय............ अपॠरापॠय मां.....".


Humble pranam

Dharmendra Sharma
---------------------------------------------------


Jai Shri Hari,

beyond the shloka 10 also everything is clearly explained in all the tikas. and
i would like to bring only few points about the sequence and flow of the
teaching by Bhagwan Shri Krishna, so that it would be easy to grasp the crystal
clear message of the Adhyaya.

1. In Shloka 13 and 14 Bhagwan describes the sadhana of premi Bhaktas, and in 15
th shloka he describes that how other people do sadhana by different paths.

THEN AFTER SUDDENLY BHAGWAN STARTS DESCRIBING SOME OF HIS "VIBHUTIS" FROM SHLOKA
16 TO 19.

What do you think is the purpose of Bhagwan in ennumerating his vibhutis here so
abruptly?

Explanation:
in Shloka 13-14 Bhagwan first describes that after knowing me
"Sarvabhutamaheshvar", (as described up to shloka 10) those who are great souls
do my ANANYA BHAKTI. (here the word ananya is to be kept in mind). in 15 th
shloka he further says that my sadhana is also done by other means by other
people, including gyan, yagya, veda, etc.
Now in the shlokas 16 - 19, Bhagwan wants to convey to Bhakta (in an indirect
way) that you need not be distracted by so many other sadhanas because, only i
am there in everything followed in those sadhans, i am veda, i am yagya, i am
mantra, i am aahuti, i am tapa and whatever other path you want to follow only
me and me is there in every sadhan.

So why to stray here and there come direct to me with Shraddha, and do my ananya
bhakti.


and subsequently he says that practicing the other dharmas either may be
difficult and some of them may not give you Moksha (shloka 20, 21, 24, 25). and
on the other hand to practice my Bhakti is very easy, even if you offer me a
fruit, water or even leaf with heartfelt love, i accept that with pleasure, and
by doing my Bhakti you will achieve me. (Shlokas: 25, 26)


Conclusion:
Ananya Bhakti of Bhagwan is called here as Rajvidya in this adhyaya, and how it
is done, and some more insights in next posting.


Humble Pranam

(As understood by the grace of Pujya Shri Hanuman Prasad Ji Poddar)

tvadiya vastu Govind tubhyamev samarpaye
Shri Krishnarpanamastu

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Jai Shri Hari,

If we see carefully the preaching style (वर्णन
शैली) of Bhagwan in this chapter, it is descriptive
(विवरणात्मक) up to
the shloka 26, but after that the style becomes instructive
(आदेशात्मक).

there are only four instructive shlokas
(आदेशात्मक
श्लोक) in this chapter (shloka number 27, 31, 33,
34) in which Bhagwan orders to Arjuna, that O Arjuna! do my Bhakti, do my Bhakti
and do my Bhakti. no other order is given by Bhagwan in this chapter.

So it is very clear that, the meaning of
"सुसुखं
कर्तुं " is none other than
"अनन्य भक्ति".

Now the question may arise, then why Bhagwan has described his avaykta svarup in
the beginning of the chapter?

The answer is that without knowing the true form of Bhagwan, continuous and
ananya bhakti is not possible. We should have shraddha that although we can not
see Bhagwan in every thing but he is very much there in everything. So with this
understanding, doing all the worldly duties as the service of Bhagwan is the
meaning of verse 27, which is the first instructive shloka of this chapter.
(Bhakti + Gyan + Nishkam karma).

(and as a result of bhakti, Bhagwan gives his Gyan to the Bhakta, as described
in 10th chapter shlokas 10-11)

the gist of 9th adhyaya is again highlighted in beginning of 10th adhyaya up to
the 11th shloka.


Humble Pranam

As understood by the grace of Pujya Shri Hanuman Prasad Ji Poddar

Tvadiya vastu Govind tubhyamev samarpaye

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