Friday, March 29, 2013

[gita-talk] The Bhagavad Gita - Daily Message - 10 / 27


||  Shree Hari ||

II  10:27  II

uccaiḥśravasamaśvānāṁ viddhi māmamṛtodbhavam

airāvataṁ gajendrāṇāṁ narāṇāṁ ca narādhipam

Among horses, know Me to be the nectar-born Ucchaisravas (celestial horse born of churning of ocean); of lordly elephants Airavata (Indra's elephant); and of men, the monarch.
From  Gita Prabodhani
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Wednesday, March 27, 2013

[gita-talk] Re: Define Karma? How Gita is justified when I am being punished for selfless work?


how u define karma.If selflessly done duty/karma has brought pain and problem
for me and punishment given who works wisely for the nation then how gita is
justified?presently i am facing this problem because of my uprightness and
selfless karma for my organisation.I am victimised .how god prevails



Dear N. Panda,

You need help as you are feeling victimized. Would you do another good karma and read Gita? 

It is important to do actions intelligently so that you are not victimized. One needs to be able to do that materially. For example, leading and managing people and persuading them is an art (not just dependent on karma). One needs to know what to say, how to say and also, be sincere, kind and caring because our inner qualities also affect people. 

Same applies to spirituality. One needs to apply intelligence and knowledge to spirituality. So, you need to be aware what is in Gita. From your question, it appears that you don't have detailed knowledge of Gita. Please read Sadhak Sanjivini by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Murari Das


Dear Sadak,
You are facing sorrow due to uprightness. This sorrow is effect of past. Your
righteousness will be paid later, when you may not grumble but pray God at that
time HE should bless you HIS thought always.


Ideal of Bhagwad Geeta is not selfless work but Nishkama Karma. What you
understand by Selfless work is that you are working for others benefit. But
still it is accompanied by I. I am doing work for helping others. Do a good work
and not question the result. Keep on doing without questioning. Surrender in
total.One day you will find that what you were considering Selfless Work was not
Selfless in true sense. It was accompanied with Ego - doership.Continuously
doing Nishkama Karma and acceeptting fruit as it comes without value judgement,
will take you to true ideal of Nishkama Karma. When you beccome Shudhha
Sankalpi, you will become Sidhha Sankalpi.
Jayantilal Shah


Mr. Panda ji,
  Are you disappointed that you didn't reap the fruit of your actions that you were expecting?
 The Bhagavad Gita said "perform action with the attitude that its your Duty, and do not expect any fruit or reward". The duty itself is the reward.
Everything that's happening you now, may be the fruit of your Past [lives], that is how karma work you do not reap it same time. What you do now you'll reap another time.


your  just thinking that you are doing selfless karma makes the karma selfish because at the root of karma you are judging the result of punishment or praise. this in itself is bringing you the effect.


I am touched by your sincerity. But there is some shadow of misunderstanding in
your post. I do not know the situation in which your selfless work and "for the
nation" that landed you in problem. The realization of awareness that you have
done your duty for Your nation introduces an element of selfishness in the
Karma. Consequences of your work are not dependent only on your doing. Because
we live and keep company of variety of people, their attitude does affect our
future.Please listen to this anecdote. A svami and his Sishya were walking along
a beach. The teacher was talking about karma and how it should be done without
expecting a return. The student asked the same question as your did in this
post. Guru silently continued the walk. The student found a conch (Sankhu)
picked it up and held it to the ear to hear the samudra Ghosha. A few ants
lodged in the conch bit his ear. Immediately the student threw the coll the ant
snch into the sea and all the ants in the conch perished. The teacher asked "how
many ants did bite you?" Maybe one or two said the student. Then why did you
punish all the ants in the conch which did no harm to you. Those innocent ants
suffered as a consequence of the company they kept with biting ants. Your
actions do not remain purely yours Depends on the saha adhyaayees.

Finally Karma is Karma BrahmOdbhavam viddhi brahmaakShara samudbhavam. Also the
definition of Karma is in ch 8 of Gita
bhoota bhaavodbhavO visargaH karma samgjitaH
Understand this after deep study not just verbal meaning but that in between the
Samudrala Krishna


As learnt from Swameejee :
Karma is action performed with sense of doership otherwise every action is seva.
The moment you get rid of doership, all pains and sorrows will give you
experience of happiness out of all actions being performed according to Gods


I give simple example. Bhagavan Shri Ram went to jungle, to fulfill his
father's promise. Is it good Karma or bad Karma? But after leaving forest had to
face Rakshasha at every turn. So based on your argument was Bhagavan punished
for doing good work? No it was part of his destiny.

Similarly if you are doing work selflessly and getting problems and punishment
then you have to realize that you are getting fruits of you past bad karma and
by going through suffering you are burning away your sins and purifying your
soul. So if you are expecting immediate benefit of doing good work, you are no
different than a kid, who expects to get Mercedes for finishing his homework.

Harry Desai


Dear Gita-Talk member,

If you want to solve your problem and get divine help, then
"empty" your mind for good and pray in your thinking - it
will really help,

Good Luck!

Notesh Otes

Karma theory is not analysis of karmas.The import of karma theory is only to
show that whatever comes before you can not be escaped.
Just see, mind seeks through cause and effect. It is satisfied by cause and
effect explanations. But pain, uncertainty, confusion, fear and so on spur us to
inquire as cause and effect paradigm stops here. Mind is unable to find a
stereotyped, known response.
Karma theory puts a full stop to this comfort. It is not an application, it has
to be understood.
The understanding hits that ‘causelessness’ is operating as cause and effect
for play. One is settled with ‘as is’. Action becomes relaxed, conscious,
play. All spirituality including the karma theory is to cause that hit. Brain
has to bear this paradox to SEE the Original.

Y V Chawla

This question comes up when one does not know the Self/wisdom of life....
In short, the answer is "you may be facing consequences of past karmas". So,
bear them out keeping your happiness intact and keep doing the good work...

But the important part is to have patience and know your Self and the process of
life....which includes how karma theory works. It is all simple common sense..


|| Shree Hari ||

II 10:11 II
teshaamevaanukampaarthamahamgyaannajam tamah |
naashyaamyaatmabhaavastho gyaanadeepen bhaasvataa ||

(Gita 10/11)

Out of pure compassion for them, dwelling in their hearts, I destroy the
ignorance-born darkness, by the luminous lamp of wisdom.


Even though Karmayoga and Jnanayoga-- both are the means and Bhaktiyoga is the
goal, even then God grants his devotees also Karmayoga-- 'dadami budhiyoga tam'
and Jnanayoga--'jnandipena bhasvata'. 'Apara' and 'Para' Prakriti (Lower and
Higher Nature)-- both Prakritis belong to God. Therefore, God, out of His grace
grants His devotee both the Karmayoga which is dominated by the 'Apara' and the
Jnanayog a dominated by 'Para'. So the devotee easily attains the 'Nishkama
bhava' (unselfish feeling) necessary for Karmayoga and 'Svaroopa Bodha'
(knowledge about the self) necessary for Jnanayoga. After attaining Karmayoga
the devotee performs actions for the world without expectation of any return and
by attaining Jnanayoga, the devotee is able to give up the ego of the body.

From Gita Prabodhani by Swami Ramsukhdasji


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[gita-talk] Re: Can a person without vision of "vasudeva sarvam" be considered an advanced Bhakt


Bhagavatam (11/2/41) - "Ether, fire, air, water, earth, the sun and other
luminaries, all living beings, the directions, trees and other plants, the
rivers and oceans — all these are body of Hari (the Supreme God). One should bow
down to whatever exists in this world seeing them to be manifestation of Hari."
After explaining this truth, Bhagavatam (11/2/47) explains that those who don't
have this realization are considered as lower level sadhaks (prakrata-bhakta).
"Bhakta who worships the diety of Hari faithfully at the temple but does not
worship or give respects to Hari in other living entities should be considered
at the lowest level."

The same truth is explained by Swamiji as "vasudeva sarvam". My goal is to
develop above vision and I try to seek satsang with people or books which
encourage me to develop above vision. For example, I read Swamiji's writings
because they help me to develop the vision of "vasudeva sarvam".

One can give example of Gopis as being ignorant of seeing God in all. Narada
Bhakti Sutra 22 explains that in the case of gopis, there is no exception of
forgetting the knowledge of Krishna. These gopis were self-realized sages in
their previous birth and they had vision of vasudeva sarvam. One cannot use
example of gopis to justify that a person ignorant of vision of vasudeva sarvam
can be considered as advanced.

I see many people who externally appear to be following the worship of diety
faithfully and they give very motivating lectures. When they give lectures on
pastimes of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu whom they consider as God, then can make
audience cry. Can they be considered as advanced bhakta if they don't have above

Ultimately, all people are respectful as they are manifestation of God. I am
asking this question to know the truth and not to find faults in others.

Murari Das


You are right. To envision God in every thing and every where 'vasudeva sarvam'
is the ultimate existential goal of a bhakta (and all sadhakas of Gyan yoga,
Karma yoga as well as all Gita Sadhakas. But it is very difficult to reach and
remain in the existential state of complete and full vision of 'vasudeva
sarvam'. Even very few persons, possibilly the rarest of the rare will reach
that state: others will progress or even fall along the path towards that vision
somewhere. If that be so why should we be interested in trying to find out who
is exactly where and how far from the state of complete vision og 'vasudevsa
sarvam'. If we do this, then we ourselves will be obstructing our own aim of
progressing towards that vision. We should rather be interested in ensuring that
we individually make a movement up the ladder towards the goal of vasudeva
sarvam. Gita shadhna is about one's own development and not about others'
relative position on the path of Sadhna.
Basudeb Sen


Till this ''I'' plays any role (of any kind whatever) ''Vasudev: Sarvam'' will
not happen and the moment this ''I'' vanishes, ''Vasudev: Sarvam'' automatically
happens because it is the ONLY truth.


Hari Om

As rightly pointed out by a learned Sadhak of this Divine Forum, at the outset, this comparison of advanced Bhakta or Bhakta at lowest level etc should be avoided . It is not relevant at all to the topic and it surely is an obstacle to your goal. Everything gets covered in Vasudev Sarvam. It is not an issue of fault finding or knowing the truth, it is matter of obstacle on your path. When all is Vasudev , what difference does it make as to how an X person is placed on the ladder to the top?  Identify your own positioning and concentrate on your own self. NIJ PRABHUMAY DEKHAHI JAGAT, KEHI SANG KARAHI VIRODH- When you see the world pervaded by your own PRABHU, where is scope then for any opposition to any one? 

You said- You have goal of Vasudev Sarvam vision. Actually, it is an experience, an individual experiencing the presence of Vasudev in every one and every where. That does not change the outer scene, the seer is perceiving this way. SEEN remains the same, but the vision of SEER changes as he sees his God in Sarvam. 

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


yes in bhagvata it is explined that everything happens in mothers
womb, the way the mother thinks, eats, acts it is copied by the child,
when the mother eats bitter gourd it will go to child, if she takes
alchohol, smokes it will affect the child, if she see horror movies it
will be taken by the child, if she quarrels the child gets the nature,
when the mother eats some sweet the child feels sweet, the child will
be floating in all the dirt and when it reaches 9 months it is eager
to come out of the prison of the womb and lo...kabira jab hum paida
huye jag hase hum roye, when we are born the whole world around is
happy that we are born and distribute sweets, but we have to cry
doctor checks pats our back holding us by our legs and conirms that
our heart, lungs are working, when the umbilical cord-connection
between us and mother is cut and the placenta from the mother is
removed and cleaned, we are given a wash, we open our eyes and close
because we are not used to so much of light since we were in the womb,
then mother feeds her nectar like mothers milk, then we will slowly
adjust to this world, lot of guests will come to greet and one year we
spend and our first birthday is celebrated, we dont know what it is ,
now a days it has become fashion t celebrate with western style cakes
and the child plays with the cake as if it is toy, then after 3 years
it is put to school and here he or she starts learning good and bad
and at home also, what parents do, neighbors do we learn, we learn bad
things fast...
hence it is very much necessary that SPIRITUAL AND MORAL EDUCATION
should be given at the age of 3
god bless you


God, the Original is not an idea. All thinking including 'about God' is the
activity of the brain. Brain is geared to seek stable comfort by ideas,
explanations as if some lack will be filled by ideas, explanations and it will
become secure. This comfort vanishes on being noticed. Now one sees the oncoming
moment with wonder instead of fitting it into comforting ideas, explanations. To
see that friction between this moment and next moment is unsolvable completely
relaxes the brain. The touch of the Original has happened.
Y V Chawla


Dear Sadhak,    According to me, understanding "Vasudeva Sarvam" is one of the final steps close to realizing  God. You may consider steps of a ladder and in which case you may consider  "Advanced Bhakta" to be still far away from the final step of Moksha (Realizing  God). As in the case of a ladder with 20 steps, a person standing on 17th step  will be considered higher than the person standing on 13th step.    Your servant,    Kali Sadhak


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[gita-talk] The Bhagavad Gita - Daily Message - 10 / 26


||  Shree Hari ||

II  10:26  II

aśvatthaḥ sarvavṛkṣāṇāṁ devarṣīṇāṁ ca nāradaḥ

gandharvāṇāṁ citrarathaḥ siddhānāṁ kapilo muniḥ

Of all trees I am Ashvattha (the holy peepal tree); among the celestial sages, I am Narada; among the Gandharvas (celestial musicians) I am Chitaratha; among the Siddhas (perfect sages), the sage Kapila.

From  Gita Prabodhani
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