Tuesday, February 26, 2013

[gita-talk] How to console one self and where to take refuge ?

 

how to console one self in such circumstances which are not in your control and where to take refuge -- CN

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[gita-talk] Re: Why Hindus can't be honest, kind, compassionate and giving?

 

In America, most people are very religious. My daughter will attend swim meets
every Saturday in the summer. Most players and parents will gather on the side
and do prayers to God. After the prayers and National Anthem, they will start
the competition. I have never seen this happening in India during public event.
Significant number of people do prayer to God before eating food. Most
Christian friends think that Hindus don't pray before eating food. We have to
explain to them that there are prayers in Hinduism which are are supposed to do
but most Hindus don't follow it. Most of my colleagues at office donate
significant amount money to church and other charitable causes. Within 1 km
radius from my house, there are 10-12 big multi-million dollar churches. It is
because the religion is important to these people and they donate good amount of
money to maintain and expand them. Most kids go to Sunday school which is school
that teaches about Christianity on Sundays. Most people are quite honest and
therefore, there is quite less corruption. They work hard and enjoy their life
like play sports, travel, go out to eat etc. Also, they are kind and
compassionate. They also help others to enjoy their life. Basically, they are
happy, kind and giving and they help others to be happy.

Hindus, on the contrary, try to deny their own pleasures. It is quite hard to do
that. So, most Hindus fail. Since they fail in not pursuing sensory pleasures,
they don't take others principles of Hinduism (like truthfulness, helping other
etc) seriously. Therefore, India has so much corruption. It is not just part of
higher government but it is part of day to day life. People blame kali-yuga but
it is the culture which is to be blamed. Some people are successful in
controlling their senses and denying themselves pleasures of life. Such people
also can't help others as they preach the same and most people fail to practice
what they preach. Also, these people don't pursue material success and
therefore, they don't have resources to help others.Therefore, they also can't
help others to be happy and be morally good. Hindus generally give to temple or
priest. Most of that people does not go to help poor and needy. Therefore, poor
people don't get help.

In my company, around 60-80 people go once a week during lunch time to teach
Math and English to low performing kids. I am also involved in this volunteer
work. I ask to reschedule the office meetings during that time as I have to go
for mentoring. People appreciate that and like it. We, engineers, are the best
people to teach Math and these kids get very quality education. Whenever I go,
I remember India where we can do so much to help poor people. In India, I have
seen literacy programs but people participating were not serious. But here I
see, people taking their valuable 1 hour of office time to do something good for
the society. That shows the character and moral of these people who are help the
society. This is real Karma-yoga. That does not mean that they are not happy.
They try to enjoy the life and also, give back to society by doing service.

My dad never took any bribe. I don't think he ever gave bribe also. It is tough
to live in India without giving bribe. Therefore, we had quite tough time in our
childhood as my dad had to work hard (fight and argue) to get work done.
Therefore, small things took longer time. I inherited the same traits and I
don't remember giving any bribe. Getting work done took lot of effort, energy
and time. Even now when I go to India for few weeks, I have mentally tough time
as I see people cheating around me, disrespecting poor people and talking rude.

Sometimes, I feel that Christianity is much superior religion in practice. Even
though Hinduism talks about big philosophical stuff, in practice we can't make
people honest, kind, compassionate and giving. There are phases in my life when
I go through these kinds of thoughts.

At His feet in service,
G B

=====================================

Shree Hari Ram Ram

In this group, we are all aspiring to be a Sadhak, to attain Realization -
(Self, God), Salvation, Liberation, whatever you may want to call it. I believe
we will benefit significantly if we follow Swamiji's satsang carefully.

An aspirant has no right to wish anyone evil, to consider anyone evil and to do
anyone evil.
Doing good to others, involves labor but if we don't do evil to others, it
involves no labor and no expenses. Therefore all are independent and able to
renounce evils. We can at least begin right here. Meera Das, Ram Ram

=====================================

we all can learn. if we do not practice what we know to be right it is our fault, whether we are Hindu or Christians or Muslims, whether we are in USA or India or anywhere else in world.
If we claim to be Hindu, we have good reason to practice what we believe to be right. That is all!!
Jay Shri Krishna!
Hemendra

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Hari Om

One marvels at Holy Gita , when it uses precondition of SARVABHOOT HITE RATAA- indulging in welfare of all- for all Yogis be that Karma Yogi, Jnana Yogi , Bhakta or Dhyaan Yogi. Now the Q arises how to be Sarvabhoot HITE RATAA ? Can it be by doing good, some petty gesture here or there? No...because no human on this earth can even feed for one time even all the humans , what to talk of all the Jeevas or creatures !!! In doing good, you get limited by time, resources, access, reach and so many similar things. Moreover doing good invokes a pride or ego in you ( Hey ! Look at me. I am doing this..do you do that ? If you don't do that, you are inferior. Those who do that are superior) ! At the same time, Gita requires you to get indulged in welfare of ALL JEEVAS, including humans. How to do that? No individual has capacity to supply one glass of water even to all creatures at one point of time !!!!

Answer lies in your not wishing/ doing/understanding evil via a vis any Jeeva. You reach to entire humanity, all Jeevas when you don't do any harm to anyone. How ? If you are doing good, you can reach only limited people for limited time. You can't say to a total stranger say from Timbaktoo that I have done good to you !!! It is a law: you can not get Unlimited element by using Limited means !!! But if you don't cause harm , do/understand/wish any evil for anybody , then you reach entire creation. You get unlimited. You can say to that total stranger from Timbaktoo: I have not caused any harm to you !!!

Hence glory, bravery, and character does not lie in your doing good here or there, it lies in your not doing/wishing/understanding evil vis a vis others. India is a country which is known for its gentleness, docileness and non violence. We don't cause harm to any body, our religion does not teach us to cause violence, we consider an animal like cow to be a Goddess and we feed even serpents with milk. We don't kill animals just for fun or to satisfy our taste buds. At least our Religion does not permit that. Our language and grammar is Divine, extra ordinary and infinite times superior to any other. However We are...we are at a place from where Eternal, Timeless Religion, Mother of all Religions emerges. India has given to the world highest number of Saints, Scriptures, Warriors, Scientists , Philosophers, astronomers, astrologers,Phanthropists, Kings and Artists...what not ? Which is the other country which can claim as rich heritage as my country ?

Thus if the yardstick for any Religion to be called the best is "doing good" then it will fail..,we believe in not harming any one at any point of time. That is Sanatan Dharma !!!

By the way, as per Gita and logically too, Those who are unsuccessful in spiritual progress do not become dishonest, corrupt as suggested, rather they become YOGA BHRASHTA, and begin striving again in next birth. Similarly, successful ones do not necessarily become Saints and stop participating in society. Have an eye to recognise Sadgruhasthas. You are further totally ignorant in suggesting that "these good people also try to dominate poor people" etc etc. Who told you people can't study Sanskrita if they want to ? It is an optional subject of Syllabus in Schools and Colleges. Who prevents them? Actually, you know nothing about India of today. You are still travelling in those untouchability eras of 1700/1800s! If somebody in your family assigned low value (as per your calculations, wisdom and perception) to hard work, does that mean that every Indian does so? If yes, by what yardstick? Is there any problem if even middle class could have maids and servants? Will you be happy if only top class could have them? What are we talking? In the same breath you are also referring to "dominance of elite group over weak" !!

To sum up, one should never criticise one's parents, one's mother land and one's caste and creed, NEVER EVER. God does not trust those, who criticise and find faults with their parents. In order to prove any point, one should never be this casual. If your mom donates hefty sum for cows but does not pay hefty sum to servants or maids, that is her prorogative and karma. Who are you to find faults in her? Who prevented you from paying some extra to those maids and servants out of your own pocket? TYAAG ( Renunciation) is not that easy, to talk about the same of course is easy !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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In the name of Heaven at least, Christians do a lot of charity. But in Hinduism the focus is only on self, and charity is also a method of realising self, not a good in itself. The talk in Hinduism is always about self, self, SELF, SELF ! Despite all the lofty talk, how many people realise self? Not even 0.1% of the swamis and babas, who tell others to realise their self. Swami Vivekananda said, "Thousands of years ago, society did not exist. Thousands of years hence, society may not exist. Hence the individual is all important." OK, but where is the guarantee that thousands of years hence, the individual will exist without the society existing? But to the credit of Swami Vivekananda it must be said that he asserted, " Him I consider a Duratman, who, having been educated at the expense of the poor, does not pay the least heed to them."
For some centuries to come, Hindus will do well not to tell each other glibly, "Realise Self" but to start doing good to each other. Since we Hindus are all going to have so many future births, we can take care of our selves in one or more of those future births. For the time being, let us help others in attaining a tolerable standard of living and education. They will join us later in a search for Self.

Srinivasa Rao Kankipati

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Vyas >> All evilness is in Self , there is no evilness outside.

From Absolute perspective, there is no evilness in the self or outside. Such
people don't feel the need to improve the condition of India and therefore,
remove dishonesty, cruelty, selfishness etc.

Some philosopher like Vyasji say that there is evilness in the self and that
evilness is desire or lust or something like that. Such people work on internal
or external renunciation of one's desires, lust etc. Some people are successful
and most people, cannot make much progress on this path. Those people who are
successful become saints and don't actively participate in society.

Those people who are unsuccessful lead life of dishonesty, corruption,
selfishness etc. So, there are few role models who are actively living in the
society and lead life of honesty, kindness, compassion and charity.

These good people also try to dominate poor people. For example, they don't do
much to educate them. This started long time ago. For example, people of lower
caste were not taught sanskrit and the knowledge of religion remained with elite
group of people who dominated the society. In 1400s, when Tulsidasji wrote
Ramayana in Hindi, there was great opposition. It was because the story of Ram
was getting propagated to common man and elite group cannot control it any more.
Still, the statements of supremacy of elite brahmin group were added in Ramayana
by this elite brahmin group so that they can continue to dominate the soceity.
After religion declined, the new elite group has emerged in terms of English
knowing population. Those who know English dominate those who don't. These
people don't try to educate more people in English and Math as their dominance
will go away. Due to same reason, Hindus don't help poor people. If they uplift
poor people, then who will do menial work? At least, the people whom I talk to
are more concerned about the rates increase if they pay poor people more. Not
only they don't give them money in charity but they also try to pay them less
for their hard work. Ultimately, honest hard work is invaluable and it is
society which assigns value to it. They assign such a low value to hard work
that even middle class can have maids and servants.

There are 100 people in my company who teach Math and English to low performing
kids once a week. We work with non-profit group. This group is now taking this
program to AMD, Intel etc. We are engineers with Masters and PhD degrees.
Imagine people like us teaching low performing kids. I am sure that we can raise
education level of our city. I am doing this because non-profit organization has
created a system. Otherwise, I won't do it. The same way India needs to create
system where people start helping poor people. Also, system needs to reward
values of honesty, hard work etc.

People like Vyasji can ignore and close their eyes. They can blame the people
who are asking for the change. But ultimately, India needs to change. It starts
first by recognizing the need for change and recognizing the value system (like
dominance of elite group over helpless weak group, no reward for honesty and
hard work) which is causing the problem.

At His feet in service,
G B

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Dear G B,

I am fully agree with your views that something to be done for the improvement
of sociopolitical and socioeconomic conditions of India.

But labeling a particular religion as inferior, and holding it responsible for
the misery of the country to which it belongs, is not fair.

Even if we accept your opinion that "Christianity is much better as a belief in
practice for the improvement of a country"; and convert all the people of India
to Christianity, even then the misery will remain the same, and corruption will
remain the same.Because it is not the religion which is responsible, but the
corrupt socioeconomic environment in this country.

that does not mean that i am against any religion or belief, i equally respect
all religions, but on the same time i am proud to be a Hindu, and does not see
Hinduism in any respect inferior to any other belief or religion.

regards
Dharmendra Sharma

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America exports USD

kgmisra
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Hari Om

The habit of finding faults in others is very dangerous habit in a Sadhak's
life. You can not get rid of attachment and aversion, unless you consider
yourself and yourself only to be the cause of what happens with you or how the
world appears to you. The surest way to dereliction of duty is fault finding or
blaming others. Another biggest pitfall is COMPARISON. Sanatan Dharma ,
therefore, expects you to introspect and realise your OWN SELF. The subject
matter of knowledge is not world, it is self. You can not change the world but
you can change yourself. You can not blame culture for dishonesty, you have to
blame yourself.

The world, however and whatsoever it is, is creation of God. It is a splendid
unit in itself. All virtues and vices visible by a human in it are in fact
manifestation of a human's imagination about it. World is neither good nor
bad...we are good or bad and world appears to us as we are. How simple !!! World
is a mirror and as a mirror honestly reflects each Jeeva as he is. Else why
would each Jeeva have a unique observation about the world? Each Jeeva is unique
and hence each Jeeva has its own view about world.

Sanatan Dharma through its Scriptures and Saints, therefore, have concluded that
each Jeeva must improve oneself and not care about the outer world, except by
SERVICE to it. You do not find faults with the world, you serve the world. SAB
JAG ISHWAR ROOP HAI, BHALO BURO NAHIN KOY ! JAAKI JAISI BHAAWANA VAISO HI PHAL
HOY !!! The world is manifestation of God, there is no one good or bad in it. As
you are so appears the world to you.

Sadhaks would do well to introspect more and improve themselves before they sit
on Judge's chair and comment. Vices are just the other side of same coin. The
world is dual. You have to rise above both. If there is a mental itch for
criticism, criticise your own self and improve your own self.

Every fault has a tendency to increase. When you have a habit, say of fault
finding, you start from family and than towards neighbours, than towards
Society, than towards very country from which dust you yourself are made and
than towards the very religion. It is dangerous phenomena, whichever way you see
it. If only we introspect, and turn the same habit of fault finding in one's own
self, this world will appear Divine to us. Baba...all are good ! All evilness is
in Self , there is no evilness outside. How the world is good? The world is good
because it perceives more goodness in any individual than actual, and it
perceives less evilness in any individual than actual !!! World by and large
considers you to be better than you actually are. Isn't it? Practical example?
Every parent of a girl, thinks that the selected Groom is a good person for
their daughter...it is only after marriage you realise if you have made mistake.
World definitely is better than us.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Each one can start to make a difference by - practcing Gandhi's philosophy
"let's be the change you want to see in others"
This is the continuation of the evolution that's going on India and the world.

Mangal Deolal

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Dear GB,

This is all about the social conditions.
in short a small example will answer your query effectively.
"on a tree full of fruits only two monkeys were living peacefully. on another
tree somewhere at different place two dozen monkeys were living, quarreling and
fighting to get the share of only few fruits left on the branches. there were
less fruits because the owner of the tree, (a gorilla) had already consumed most
of the fruits on that tree".

In west - there is less unemployment. there is social security provided by
government. You have not to care for your children after a certain age, you are
not responsible for the well being of your elders, you are not responsible for
your spouse even. Finally you have not to worry too much for your future (in
nutshell feeling of insecurities is minimum).

In India - lot of unemployment and if employed the pay is barely sufficient to
meet the requirements of life. you are responsible for the well being of your
children, your elders and your spouse. Even if one is able to earn handsomely,
he want to save it for the bad times (no social security at all from
government). you want to save money for your children, thinking what if they
would fail to get a suitable job? and finally if the environment is full of so
much negative influences and energies, the people adjust themselves according to
that to survive.

i hope that it clarifies the answer.

regards
Dharmendra Sharma

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Mr. Prabhu,

My comments were specific to Vishal Mangalwadi, the Christian evangelist. On
what basis are you generalising it for all Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs
etc?

I certainly don't see any sense in Mangalwadi because

i) He considers Hindusim to be a delusion

ii) Justifies British colonial rule as it brought Christianity
to `heathen land', i.e. India

iii) Went into alliance with Maoists to fight the common enemy –
Hinuds.

iv) He is on a mission to convert all Hindus to Christians.

But I see that you see a lot of sense in Mangalwadi which makes me doubt your
authenticity in belonging to `We Hindus' camp.

The moderators have started this group to propagate dharma and I being a dharmic
follower, informed them as I consider it as my duty to do so, and not scare them
as you allege me to do, about the anti-dharmic Mangalwadi. I don't see any
reason for him being discussed here on this forum. Even if he has said something
which is relevant to the discussion of topic here it would have made much more
sense if you had put a disclaimer about his anti-dharma mission and activities.

You didn't find my last response sensible and civil enough. I hope I have not
disappointed you again this time.

Thanks,

Varun

----------------------------------------------------

India's corruption is not only because of Hindus. Here in India, people
belonging to all religions can be equally corrupt. There are many who do a lot
of charity work and yet remain corrupt! That's the irony.

Before understanding the reasons between behavioural patterns of Hindus and
Christians, one must understand the teachings of these two religions. Christian
religion says do good, be good and forgive others so that you'll be rewarded
with heaven after the Judgement day. Your actions are all of no worth and you'll
be eligible to enter heaven just by "accepting" Jesus who died for your "sins".
A mere confession of this sort is enough and they don't believe
self-emancipation is necessary and possible.
So, the main motivation for a Christian to do good and charity is only the
REWARD and nothing else. I still appreciate that it has a favourable consequence
in improving people's lives. Had there been no promise of heaven, there'll be no
charity. Charity is an instrument to convert people into their religion and
thereby get rewarded here on earth and in "heaven". The more they convert, the
more is the blessing.

On the other hand, Hinduism teaches the only goal of human life is to know one's
own Self and NOTHING else. All other activities can be done if and only if it
would lead you in the path of self-realisation, else it's all worthless.
However, all these practices of charity and kindness is very much preached in
Hinduism as well and in a much better way. But, because the religion is not
instituionalised and also India is very poor (where majority of Hindus live), it
looks as if Hindus are not kind and charitable. Moreover, there's so much of
propaganda in the Christian world about the things they do.

While in Hinduism charity is a means and not an end, in Christianity, the
saamaanya dharma (normal conduct) is projected as the absolute dharma. In
Hinduism, doing in charity with ego (expecting reward) is as sinful as any other
sin and detrimental to a person's spiritual progress even though it may seem to
produce a desirable result.

Without understanding all these things, it's unfortunate that many pass such
false comments.

Regards,
Prashant

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Hari Om

The questioner can not be said to be equanimous in this particular message. He
is too critical and biased.

Actually, we know pitfalls of our own home ( Hindus) but we do not know
hollowness of other religions and that is why such comparison or message
emanates. In reality, there has been deterioration in every religion, in every
value system and there has been a universal moral degradation, irrespective of
Hinduism, Christianity erc. It is not that such things have been only in Hindus
and not in others. Go and ask say elders of Christian religion as to how is
their youth of modern times. They will also echo similar sentiments in respect
of their religion. But questioner has not done that and has arrived at
unilateral conclusions.

Secondly, Hindu Dharma is especially and particularly against Kali Yuga, while
other religions are not that opposite the Kaliyuga. Hence their religions get
support from Kaliyuga and our religion does not. It is a Law: Kaliyuga supports
Adharma. Thirdly, the policies of Government also are obstacles in progress of
our religion. A catholic would NEVER indulge in foetus killing or abortion. Due
to such issues, the Hindu Dharma on surface appears to others to be
retrograde.But actually our Dharma is mother of all Dharmas. In no other
religion such deep introspection, research and study has been done for a HUMAN,
HIS DUTIES, RIGHTS etc as has been done in Hindu Dharma.

In Kaliyuga, the Dharma is adhered to INDIVIDUALLY and not collectively. For
example, all Brahmins should adhere to their prescribed duties- this may not
happen now. But at the same time, no Brahmin adheres to his prescribed duty -
this also does not happen, even now. So Dharma should always be seen individual
to individual and not collectively.

Of course I did not like the text and tenor of message for the aforesaid
reasons. In which country crows are white? Crows are black in every country.
Such comparison therefore should be avoided.

By the way neither me personally or my religion viz Sanatan Dharma has any
favour or opposition with any religion of the world. Sanatan Dharma is eternal
code. Can you find out a single sentence in Gita which opposes any religion,
cult, tradition, country, color? Then why should we do so? Every religion has
got some Divinity , some flavour of its own. To say , religion produces honesty,
corruption etc is in itself an insanity. To say, by and large X people are more
honest and thetefore their religion is better than us or any other is total
insanity. Saints of Sanatan Dharma say:

TERE BHAAVE JO KARE BHALO BURO SANSAAR ! "NARAYAN" TU BAITH KE APNAA BHUWAN
BUHAAR !! Damn care as to what the world around you is doing. O Man ,
concentrate on cleaning your own home.

That is INDIVIDUAL aspect of Dharma. Do you get me, Dear questioner?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

---------------------------------------------------
Many of us may have the same observation. Please allow me to give my view on
this below:

It is not a question of being a Christian or a Hindu or any other. All
religions started with someone realizing the principles/knowing
self/rules/wisdom of life to live a joyful, purposeful, creative life.
Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Jain, Budhist, etc. are all labels to mean
the same thing "Wisdom/Principles/Rules of life/knowing self". All religions
came into being to spread the message on Wisdom of life. Intention is welfare
of people, joy and happiness of people, people living at higher consciousness
levels.

The observed difference in behaviour is because the wisdom is being practiced to
a greater level there. Churches are still play their role. In India, we may
know the same wisdom, but not being practiced. Temples are not playing the
role. Many of us don't even know the wisdom of life. How are we going to
practice it.

One thing is sure, if one needs to be joyful, happy, prosperous, creative,
compassionate, etc. one has to understand, experiment and experience the wisdom
of life/self, irrespective of where one lives.

Time has come that understanding of self/wisdom of life be made part of our
formal education, as a subject. Such systematic and complete education in
schools, colleges, training institutions will lay a foundation at the right
stage of life and will help everyone to live a life with awareness of Wisdom of
life/Self. In fact, such initiative has started in India already since 2009.
In times to come, this may happen everywhere.

Sushil Jain

---------------------------------------

GB is not indicating that Hindus should choos Chrstanity; instead he pvovoks the
idea of bringibg the features of Hindusam in practical life, ways and means.

Sharad sawant

-----------------------------------------

Dear G B

It appears that you are lumping together two separate issues into one;
exploitation and religion. The example that you gave about your family clearly
illustrates the problem. It is not religious problem but a secular problem.
 

As a religion Hinduism, Buddhism offers much Nobel ideas, but as a community
there is lot to be desired from South Asians in general, and Indians in
particular. South Asians are caring but not generous. There are only two types
of parents in South Asia.

Those who want to give away every penny saved to offspring, may be a little to
relatives, extended family, and none to others.
Those who want Children to support them for their life style and so put them
work as child laborors.
There is strong dividing line between them and us. They are everybody else not
related to family.

Harry Desai

------------------------------------------------

If you have not witnessed anything good happening in India: its just too bad fr
you. All group activities here in India start with Prayer!Even a social and
antisocial activities seek blessings before d word Go!
Regards,
RK Baxi.
-------------------------------------------------

I appreciate Varun Paprunia's message, though he seems to argue that because
someone is a Christian or a Buddhist, he can't talk sense.

Is it the case that only we Hindus talk sense?

And do all Hindus talk sense?

What does Purvapaksha mean? Being able to listen to those who disagree with us,
and reproduce the sum of their argument even better than they could present it
themselves, before rebutting it.

But Papruniaji's procedure is nothing to do with Purvapaksha, it is simply to
try to scare people into not reading Christians, Buddhists, or others on the
basis that they are Christians, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs or whatever.

We Hindus don't agree even among ourselves, but the great glory of our
traditions is that, so far, we have been better than most others at maintaining
civility in spite of differences.

Rajiv Malhotraji urges us to go beyond tolerance and civility to appreciation
and even love.

Let us do so.

Prabhu
----------------------------------------------
Dear GB,

You raise valid points.
However, it is not because of Christianity that Americans do well. Aren't there
impoverished Christian nations? Full of strife and war?

Sant Keshavdas in his book "Reincarnation" mentions that each land is associated
with a particular aspect- material enjoyments (bhoga bhoomi), scientific
learning, etc. India is the land for spiritual awakening and enlightenment. Many
ancient authors extoll India as 'karma bhoomi" - land for exhausting karma
(Poonthanam - the malayalam Krishna devotee poet).

Accordingly souls take births in appropriate lands to fulfill their desires and
then again exhaust their karma accrued therefrom. The cycle goes on. This
explains the unexplained attachment people feel to a strange place on first
visit. Also the feeling of deja vu-of having been there already.

No doubt, Christianity stresses more on giving-they were able to win large
numbers of converts through their free hospitals and educational institutions.
We Hindus kept asserting our superiority over the "lower" castes, excluding them
from spiritual knowledge as well. (Ranvir senas have also done their bit)

Atleast now, some Hindu organizations have realized this error and are starting
social service institutions, and disseminating spiritual knowledge to one and
all.

skak

-----------------------------------------------------

I would like to clarify following:

I am Hindu. I gave Christianity as an example to show that it is possible to be
good and we should not blame Kali-yuga.

In late 70s, Hindus (including Christians) from Bhutan were exiled and they
could not live in Burma. Majority of them took shelter in Nepal. Around few year
ago, US gave asylum to 150,000 Bhutanese refuges. As I am involved with Hindu
organisation, I volunteered to help Hindu refuges. As US is new country for
them, government helps them to get settled. As religion is important part of
life, they also work with other religious organisations to help them.

I was talking to social case worker and the case worker was disappointed. Social
worker said that if I need help for Christian refuge, I go to Church and they
immediately provide help. She also commented that Mosque are also ready to help
Muslim refugees. If some Muslim refugee needs help. multiple Mosques will come
to help them. I was shocked when I heard about the service attitude of Mosque. I
used to think that Muslims fight with each other. I found out that Muslims also
help each other a lot. Unfortunately, Hindu temples won't come up to help when
Hindu refuges need help. We tried to change it and many people from our temple
helped Hindu Bhutanese refuges.

We need to accept our faults and only then, we can fix it. In our religion, we
don't help each other much. That needs to be changed. My family is very dharmic
family but I feel that people of my family also don't help the poor. My mom can
give Rs. 10 lakhs for cows but she cannot give extra Rs 1000 to maid who washes
her dishes. One maid helped my grandmother when she was on bed for 5-8 months. I
felt that her service was very important and wanted to give her extra Rs 5000 to
Rs 10,000. My family refused as they were already paying her Rs 3000 per month.
What the maid did for my grandmother was invaluable and least we could do was to
give her some extra money? Still, they couldn't give them money. They think that
we will change the rate and poor people will ask for more next time.

I don't know. May be it is problem with my family!

I think we need to share money and help poor people. It is possible to do it.
Our religion Hinduism teaches it. The question is that why we can't follow it?
Best way to answer it will be from your actions. Try to start helping people
around you. If you are already doing, then my thanks to you. May Krishna bless
you!

At His feet in service,
G B

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
In the world there are so many places with differant behaviours. After death,
Athuman carries only sins and blessings, Based on that Athuman takes birth in
place, to a parent, etc, to undergo pleasures or sufferings. One cannot judge
their account with GOD by people of America or Africa. Prayer is just connecting
the thought to God. By most prayers are not connecting GOD. Sri Krishna says,
Nis Kama Prema Bkathi alone GOD gets connected. Most prayers in America or else
where is thanks giving. Thanks are accepted by God there ends. Adi Sankara in
his script says, doing prayers, bajans, studying sastras etc does NOT take you
to GOD, even over hundreds of births and forperiod of 4 Bhramas. Sri Krishna
similarly says, for yogi or tapasvi it make take several births to reach. In
Bible the rich man Lazerous goes to hell and the beggar by the rich man gate
goes to heaven. Only if GB understands why, then he gets Gyana. In Hinduism (Do
not link Hindu/ muslim/ Christianity) for ref I say so since it is in
scriptures. An ant, spider, elephant, snake could go to heaven. What prayer they
did. A prostitute PINGALA went to heaven. Ajameelan went to heaven. What prayer
they did. We have been reading posting on Vasudeva Sarvam. Raaga and Duvesaha
plays very important to differentiate Vasudev in one thing and NOT in other.
Like American and Indian. So prayers or discipline are behaviours of what
taught. It does not take you near GOD. GOD is clearly said, Apprameyam (cannot
be seen like object), Aroopam (No form), Nis Karanaya (No reason for HIM) etc. A
real incident took place in Africa. A priest was visiting remote areas to preach
GODHOOD. In one village mostly nude, people had no system of prayer like us.
They pray to sky, saying, " YOU (God) eat what we eat. YOU drink what we drink".
This was their prayer in bushman language. This priest taught for few weeks
prayers. Then priest boarded a boat to cross river.As the priest was in middle
of water a bushman came running on water and said that he forgot a line in
prayer. The priest seeing the bushman stand on water, said, "You continue your
prayer GOD hearing". The priest wound up teaching. Let us see everyone alike.
GOD is in everyone. HE puts them where there are fit by their Karmas.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------

This is in my opinion a unexpected posting in a group related to Bhagwat Gita. I
am a very beginning student of Gita and from what little I understand , it is
not Hinduism or Christianity or any other thought which defines or adequately
guide our journey. I agree that our actions represent our thoughts and we may
even say culture. I however strongly believe that if all Hindus converted to
Christianity overnight, it will not reduce corruption or increase of charity and
alike. One may argue that Christianity is simple in putting the actions in
simple form, love charity and belief in Christ, well it is a good guide to live
by and may produce social harmony. Gita teaches us that Gos is one, omnipresent
, without form and ever present. I think believing in Christ, Mohammad, Krishna
doe3s not make any difference.In essence it is same thing. The examples sighted
in the articles are social behavior, important as they may be they are short
changes in the cycle of life.

Gita teaches us to follow the Savdharm , our duties depending upon the stage in
life, the context and related circumstances. Most of us know what is right and
why only a few of us can do it consistently. I think getting guidance from Gita
is likely in increase our implementation of Savdharam

Regards
Ashok Goswami

--------------------------------------------------------

Respected moderator,

As stated in the BHAGAVAD GITA that human birth is to pursue life in
spritualism and to get rid of from chain of birth and death. That is to develop
Krishna conciousness and to avoid comimg back to earth again. But the present
Hindu Population (not only hindus all other religious people also) is more
interested in involving themselves in frutive benefits and to gain more
material benefits. To develop more in the frutive benefits they had also
developed many more demigods. This is the main contributing factor to talk ill
of hindus.

Had they pursued spiritualism as stated in the BHAGAVAD GITA hindus ( not only
hindus) would have been leaders of the world. The world would not have
witnessed unnecessary war in the name of religion. Development of multiple Gad
and religion would not have been there.

S.Vaidyanathan

-----------------------------------------------

GB

Intresting and thoughtfull observation.

Part of the answer lies in religio-socio systems being developed over time. The
"Hindu" system was more suited for the agrarian village society with its
interaction with community, nature and mythology beautifully intervowen. If you
go back a little the village or small town was quite successfull at developing a
community unit which was freindly and giving. The charity services were not
neccessarily organised or branded. For eg: in my grandfathers house, the outer
verandha was kept open for any visitor to come and spend the night, even a
complete stranger. It was considered normal, nothing great. Similarly there was
a weekly free food to students who had come to study in towns, as there were no
hotels in those days and each family would feed for a day. There are tons of
such small examples, they all add up to a socitey which was freindly,
compassionate and giving.

What has happened in the urban structured enviorement is all this has been lost
and has not yet been replaced by something new. Organised religions with their
structured make up more quickly adapted to this or maybe even promoted this.
That is more the reason I think than the message contained in the religion per
se. We do not have a weekly service so there is no reinforcing concepts etc ...
but I believe overtime it will happen. If you observe the new hindu
organisations, starting from Swami Vivekanada's Ramkrishna Mission to the many
others are very "church-like" in their approach

Suhas

----------------------------------------------------------

G B has given the same arguments that a Christian missionary would give for his
proselytizing activities. I am surprised of the fact that it is coming from
someone who claims to be reading Swamiji for years and more discomforting is the
sweeping generalization he has drawn that all Hindus can't be honest, kind,
compassionate and giving.

Swamiji has clearly said that wealthy Hindus should open up schools,
universities which teaches Gita, Ramayan, Sanskrit and about Hindu sanskriti.
Govt doesn't do so because teaching Hinduism would be 'communal' according to
them. Swamiji considered the convent education a threat to Hinduism as it
brainwashed young fertile minds into appreciating West (which includes
Christianity) and looking down upon anything Hindu. So he called upon wealthy
Hindus to utilize their wealth for spreading our culture and not just splurge it
on sensory pleasures which contradicts G B's claim that Hindus don't indulge in
sensory pleasures. In fact, according to Swamiji, Hindus are more so becoming
addict to sensory pleasures.

Corruption spreads top-down. Indian constitution places political leaders at the
helm of society and now as they have turned corrupt, this disease has filtered
down in bureaucracy, judiciary, society etc. Yatha Raja Tatha Praja.

The central premise of G B's argument is that whatever problems exist in India
is due to Hindu culture. Swamiji completely disagrees with this notion.
According to him, it is because of deviance from our dharmic roots that these
problems are plaguing our society. Arth (wealth) and Kaam (pleasure) has to be
pursued but only from within the precincts of dharma. Daan (charity) is also
part of dharma.

But as if G B's assertion that 'Christianity is better than Hinduism in
practice' was not enough we have Mr Prabhu vouching for particular denomination
of Christianity. And he has referred to a Mangalwadi's book as answer to G B's
question. Moderators certainly don't know who Mangalwadi is, else they would
have certainly rejected the post. Here is a brief intro of him below.

Mangalwadi's full name is Vishal Mangalwadi (VM). Here are some details about
this person from book 'Breaking India' (please search the net for details)

""VM is an Indian American evangelist with a strikingly Eurocentric message of
Christianity. He claims that colonialism under British was very good for India,
and has written a book specifically praising one of the nastiest evangelists of
the British colonial area, Wiiliam Carey. His thesis is that India's suffering
has been caused by its heathenism. India is one of the societies which has
'looked to many local and regional gods', or have 'postulated that life's goal
is to achieve oneness with the absolute nothingness that constitutes ultimate
reality', or have somewhat got lost in 'esoteric philosophic and religious
mysteries'. On the other hand, 'the only civilization that has looked largely to
the Bible for its inspiration, the West, has been able to conquer human cruelty,
hopelessness and degradation', and this should become the role model for all
Indians. He laments that the West has become complacent in its success,
forgetting that the Bible was 'the book that catapulted the West to the
forefront of world economics, politics and culture'.

VM claims to prove colonial evangelism as a noble 'conspiracy to reform colonial
rule and to bless India'. His interpretation of history is that, while India's
independence resulted from Gandhi's struggle, India's freedom is actually the
fruit produced by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The transformation of India into a
free and modern nation was a grand experiment that was envisioned and carried on
by leaders who were driven by a Biblical worldview. These great leaders,
according to him, were the British evangelists! In other words, the British
evangelists should be considered the true founding fathers of India.

Since he starts from the premise that Hinduism is a delusion, his analysis of
the various gurus and paths lead him to these two possibilities: 'The question
is, are they deluded because of the drugs, or because they began their spiritual
journey with a mistaken map of reality, a false worldview?' The foundational
problem with Hinduism is moral, which only Bible can solve, he insists. It is
not solvable by philosophy or yogic effort.....""

I have pasted only three para from the 3 pages about VM from the book. I want to
draw moderator's attention here so that they be careful with such postings in
future. From recent postings I sense that some members want to create confusion
about Swamiji's teachings. They appreciate Swamiji and his teachings but put
blame on Hindu culture and denigrate it for corruption or anything that is wrong
in India. This is the same strategy used by Christian missionaries. I believe
they are now are targeting gita-talk group masquerading as someone who respects
Hinduism and Swamiji.

Below I am giving few links as a sample to show how Hinduism is under attack on
an intellectual plane by Western forces. We Hindus need to arm ourselves with
such knowledge to safeguard our Hindu culture.

Fooling Hindus by Inculturation -
How Evangelists Invented 'Dravidian Christianity' -
The Axis of Neoclolnialism
Myth of Hindu Sameness

(we are sorry, we cannot include the links Gita Talk Moderators)

Last 3 articles are by Rajiv Malhotra, the author of the book 'Breaking India',
and an Arjun among intellectual kshatriyas. His other book 'Being Different' is
even more important. In 7-8th century, India was on the verge of becoming a
Buddhist country, after Emperor Ashoka converted to Buddhism. It was Adi
Shankaracharya who did a purvapuksha of Buddhism and revived Hinduism in India.
'Being Different' is a similar effort where the author has done purvapuksha of
the 'West' from a dharmic point of view, because it the West which is now a
threat to Hinduism.

Thanks,
Varun Paprunia

------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Here are a few points from Swamiji's satsang that are worth keeping in mind -

When we start seeing faults in others, those faults are likely to come in us.

Just as we do not wish anyone to do us any wrong, or to find faults in us or to
behave badly with us; likewise, we should not find faults in others or behave in
an undesirable manner with others.

By assuming anyone as evil or bad, we create a relationship with that evil and
that evilness comes in us. That bad thought does not let us become pure.
Whatever feeling is inside, so will be the outcome. God says He likes an honest
and simple person. If we keep seeing faults in others - we cannot become simple
and pure.

Do not see others faults. Accept what is good and reject all the faults.

All faults stay in the shadow of egoism.

It is a rule that all faults arise due desires and a sense of mine with the
temporary. From just this one fault alone, all other faults arise.

Meera Das, Ram Ram

-----------------------------------------

All that you have said seems to be true. Maybe we can analyse to find out more
reasons and blame the foreign invaders, globalisation, etc. But that may not
give us much benefit. Each Hindu must ask: was the situation same since the last
1000 years or 2000 years? If it had been same or more or less similar in
quality, then Hindus are just like that and there is no point being sorry or
depressed about that. Each person can adopt such values and practices himself/
herself as he/ she considers right, irrespective of what others in the community
are doing.
If the Hindus have over the decades and centuries have become, non-religious,
selfish, dishonest, unkind, corrupt and bereft of compassion, then each Hindu
must decide if he/ she wants to change and upgrade to better standards in
conductive life. If he/ she decides to change to better human life in this
respect, he should implement that plan to improve irrespective of what other
Hindus do. There is no point wasting time analyzing why things are so bad with
Hindus as an aggregate unless one has organised a religious organisation that
dedicates itself to promoting the good values and practices among Hindu
children. Change will not occur through imposition on others, change occurs as
people individually starts changing without waiting for others to join.

Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------------
I believe that when u start deciding which religion is better than others you
miss the point of it all.practice what you believe and let others have their way
of believing or not believing. Wish you the very best
Aditi

------------------------------------------------

Dear GB,

I applaud your clear wonderful thoughts on work, living and happiness. These
should be applicable in every human society.

The self-denial, unproductive, other-world, spiritual messages that Hindus
constantly promulgate, are just hypocritical, false, destructive, and will crush
the emerging modern Indian nation, if not checked. The Indian constitution is
fair towards uplifting and making amends for the wrongs and injustices of the
caste system through centuries, which is really the fundamental cause of
selfishness, dishonesty and greed, and no compassion. It is not based on ethics
that the great Buddha preached, and tried to teach his Hindu bretheren.

I hope the Indian democracy and the constitution survive, and let themselves
work through the next 100 years. Then undoubtedly, a new, honest, strong and
happy India is sure to take roots. Our children would be proud of it. I'm sure
of it.

Best wishes to you for health and happiness.

Om Goel

----------------------------------------------

Hi G B,
what you say is true and where you are now, is quite possible. So compare this
to india and say
hindus in general is not a quite true. We have temples in Queens, New York, come
rain, shine or snow, these temples are opened and services are performed. They
are helping the families and children. As I experienced India, all that you said
here is TRUE TO INDIA. They even robbed me at
the airport and if I did not bribed them I would have been delayed. There are
articles that show
how bad it is in India, and getting worst? the racial behaviors is used to make
money and like a
hemorrhoid flares up every so often. There are good Hindus, as I have my friends
in Edison, NJ,
where there is a huge Dasi, they are very generous, at the same time have the
india mentality,
of being stingy, abusive, treat others like slaves and suck you dry like a
vampire? Can we ask for more and compete with the Christians, of course, but It
is from the ROOT that is rotten, it is from the ROOT
that is twisted, but since you brought it up, I do hope we can open the eyes of
the hindus and see
if they can compete or life the hindu life. Remember, Hinduism is a way of life,
not just one day
a week. Coming to America and try to be a hindu is not easy. Hence I find a lot
are changing to Christianity, cuz it is easy to follow, rather than the extended
traditional ways of the hindus, in cases as marriages, deaths, and other
religious functions and worshipping.

Gupchand Badri

---------------------------------------------
that is because Indians were ruled by Britishers for 365 years and so many
others invaded and disturbed us and since 1991 after WTO norms and globalisation
Indians are behind money to satisfy there UN ending human wants, greed has
overtaken them they hardly sleep and spend all the time in pursuit of money
making thinking it will make them happy but they are un happy sick mentally and
physically that is why hospitals are mushrooming in india, chemists are roaring
business so also medicine manufacturers
god bless you
swamiji SWAMI KRISHNANANDA

-------------------------------------------------
Dear GB

Namaskar!

What you say is evident but not often said among us. So thank you for your
frankness.

Greater honesty is produced by Protestantism (but not by other branches of
Christianity); that is commonly observed. There is a real difference in the
social and cultural impact of various religions.

In truth, neither is religion anything, nor non-religion, but only a real
relationship with God.

Most of us have philosophy, but you need to know God.

However, to answer your question: please read Mangalwadi's just-published book,
Why Are We Backward?

Kind regards

Prabhu
---------------------------------------

Pl. join Aam Aadmi party to strengthen the hands for corruption -free India.

Uma Shankari

------------------------------------------

Honesty, Kindness, Compassion, Giving..... and the antonyms of same fancy words
have same meaning and understanding as per Vedas.

Frankly, through and through i feel i am a beneficiary of Western Culture or way
of life, for the sake of LIVING (Eg. even this debate using Internet). If i am
not going overboard I would say STOP this and chant Mantras which may help you
in your endeavor of Moksha. Lest you are a politician and are promoting your
business.

As long as i am aware of my so called SOUL only in this life and the life TO
COME and NEVER before, this whole theory becomes absurd.

One thing i am sure of is that i DO NOT have a soul.

Thank you

a passerby (jay)

--------------------------------------------------

Most Hindus have made God a partner in their sins. God is given a percentage of
their immoral and illegal earnings in expectation of His writeoff of their sins.
They expect God in turn to pass on a certain percentage of his percentage to
poor people and so they feel they need not directly help the poor. This is a
convenient mechanism. Americans have to learn this trick from Hindus, who can
cheat their fellowmen with a good impunity because the "tainted money" is paid
directly to God for such distribution as He thinks fit. Look at the immense
donation made by each pilgrim to Tirumala Deity. The same pilgrim, if a beggar
approaches him for one rupee, scorns him, reproaches him and if possible gives
him a talk on how to work hard and make money, out of which he too can
contribute some percentage to the Lord. This is akin to the incident described
by Somerset Maughum in his book "Fools Now, and Then". It seems in Rome there is
an annual ceremony in the church in which sinners can confess their sins to the
priest in the church. The belief is that all his sins would be washed off for
one year by such a procedure. The author says that all Christians in that city
"dearly love to be called to this confession, as they can thereafter cheat their
fellowmen with a good conscience for the rest of the year."

Srinivasa Rao

---------------------------------------------

Dear GB,

You seem to believe there is only one side of the coin. You need to look at
other side too. First thing you have to understand is Hinduism, Buddhism and
other eastern religions believe that animals have soul too, Unless you believe
in Abrahmic religions that god created animals for men and have no soul.

Visit slaughterhouses, Factory farms, research laboratories in US and see for
yourself the amount of suffering your Christian friends have imposed on all
these creatures due to their desire to eat cheap meat, eggs. Milk etc. Compared
to what Animals go through, sufferings at Auschwitz, Dachau etc were nothing.
Charity etc. done in US and so called religiousness is simply like a person who
have committed worst crimes to achieve wealth but knows that finally his past
will catch up with him. It is like they been eating bacon for too long and will
have to pay for it.

So visit animal farm, slaughterhouse and other places to see the other side of
the coin.

I am not trying to say Hindus are great people, they are greedy, selfish, lack
empathy with suffering people, not generous and penny pinchers and want to save
every penny for their children.

In conclusion I should quote a reply from Bhagavan Vishnu to Narad, when later
asked him why in spite of giving so much in charity people on earth go to Hell
instead of Heaven and in the cycle of re-incarnation. Bhagavan replied " After
stealing anvil people of earth give away needle for charity and hope to arrive
on Heaven riding on Vimana, but they are send to hell for their karma and reborn
into lower creatures."

You also should remember that Americans stole the land from indigenous American
Indians and shoved them into reserves. It is the same Americans who keep
electing governments that behave like Rouge State and support corrupt regimes
everywhere involve in tortures, murders. Just like in Ramayana the entire Raksha
people had to pay with their blood for misdeeds of Ravana. Similarly Americans,
westerners, Muslims secularist Hindus etc. are waiting end time as explained in
Book of Revelation part of Bible. In Hinduism it is called end of Kali yuga.

Harry Desai

---------------------------------------------
Dear enquirer and sadhak ji,

It is sad display of ignorance about interpretation of Hindu teachings.

Hindu scriptures clearly state full enjoyment of ALL pleasures of life at
various stages known as AVATHAS..and ashrams.

Till 50 years one can enjoy wholistic life pf youth, marriage, procreation,
chasing money etc..
But after 50 years -vanprasthashram..one enters VAN or jungle..and has to stop
indulgence in physical activities to prepare for snyasa and moksha.

Read Theosophy's LIFE AFTER DEATH..you will automatically withdraw into astral
and mental and supramental levels to become divine the GOD.

Blessings.

Ramesh Jhalla

----------------------------------------------
Dear GB,

I am truly impressed by your above saying, and also admire your work.Keep it up
and please regularly communicate.
Jai Gajanan!

Deepak Khonde

--------------------------------------------------------
Superb really !Appreciate it .

Regards
Anish Shetty

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Monday, February 25, 2013

[gita-talk] Re: The Bhagavad Gita - Daily Message - 10 /3

 

||  Shree Hari ||



II  10:3  II
 
yo maamajamanaadim ca vetti lokamaheshvaram
asammoodhah sa martyeshu sarvapaapaih pramuchyate

 

He who knows Me or accepts firmly (without a doubt) as unborn, without a beginning and the Supreme Lord of all the worlds, he, undeluded among mortals, is purged from all sins. 

Comment

The great sages cannot know the beginning of God but they at least know Him as unborn and beginning-less. Being an Ansha (ray of consciousness) of God, the Jiva (Atman or Self) also knows that It  is also unborn and without a beginning. Therefore, as Jiva knows God to be unborn and beginning-less, in the same way It considers Itself too to be unborn and beginning-less. The reason is that we can know the world when we are separated from it; because we are separate from the world; in the same way we can know God only when we are not separated from God; because we are in fact one with God. By Knowing oneself to be unborn and beginning-less, one becomes undeluded, then how can the sins remain in him? As, first, he is unborn and without a beginning, the sins came afterwards.


From Gita Prabodhani by Swami Ramsukhdasji
=============================================================
-- Gita Resources available on-line --
      
eBook Gita Prabodhani -  Hindi 
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/geeta_prabodhani_shalok/main.htm

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/Audio/Gita-Madhurya/Audio_Gita-Madhurya-Main.htm 

GITA PATH BY BAJARANGJI SONI 
http://www.shriswamiramsukhdasjimaharaj.com/BajarangjiSoniGeeta.html

The Bhagavadgita - SADHAK SANJIVANI ENGLISH
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html

The Bhagavadgita - Sadhak Sanjivani HINDI AUDIO
http://www.shriswamiramsukhdasjimaharaj.com/ManMohanJiSadhakSanjivinin.html

http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/Audio/Audio-Bhagavad-Gita-Hindi-Gita-Press/Audio_Bhagavad-Gita-GP-Hindi.htm

LINKS TO GITA PAATH and GITA DISCOURSES by various saints
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BHAGAVAD GITA AARTI 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8fhnXvlnjM

Five Gita verses for daily recitation
Gita 4/6-10 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRKYyYt6hJ8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-k_eueSOlM
------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE VIEW YOU TUBE BHAJAN IN SWAMIJI'S VOICE

 
Swamiji - 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7qoFxoPj6A&feature=channel&list=UL

Other Bhajan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NMMB5itQb8&feature=youtube

Thank you,  Ram Ram  

----------------------------------------------


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