Monday, December 24, 2012

[gita-talk] Re: Differences between Guru, Satguru, Pujya, Acharya, Sri and Swami


Hi I am a relatively recent convert to Hinduism - was wondering what was the
difference and the meaning behind and between a guru, satguru, and Pujya,
Acharya, Sri, and Swami??


Thank you so much everyone - I'm not sure if my posts are going through...

Bala N. Aiyer - what a list!!! thank you some new that I've never heard of
Ankuur - yes I agree - I am opening my heart to find one.



Thank you everyone, everyone for taking time to teach me more. You have given
more knowledge to learn and ponder in my heart.

Vyas N B - your words have touch a nagging thought inside -
"Follow their words if you find them appealing but NEVER
their bodies, legs or heads ...NEVER !!" Can one follow a Guru who has accused
of great crimes or is found out to have done so? Is he demoniac? Not
God-realized or seen as God - the impression by Guru worship is that you are
almost akin working the Pope on Earth - like the Victor of Christ - the
Catholics that I grew up in said.

And a new word - I have not come across - VIVEKA?

Indeed I may have revered to my true dharma and beginning a process back to the
Eternal One, the Ocean of Mercy, O Krishna!

May I continue to be guided by truth and by men and women such as yourselves.


Hari Om!

The explanation given by Shree Bala N. Aiyer, is really wonderful!

Thanks and regards,

Deepak Khonde.


gu means darkness ru means light the guru takes us from darkness to light as simple as that
god bless you

i think we should concentrate more on 'SAT GURU'.sat is related to THE LORD. and guru is the teacher. but when the two words are joined it has a great meaning and the highest value. Sat Guru takes you or guides you to the path of achieving or reaching to god which no one can do not even you yourself. without the guidance of 'Sat guru' you cannot attain anything and that is why 'Shree Ramdas swami' has called the person who thinks god is greater than the Sat guru 'KARANTA'.
pujya, acharya, shri and swami are the words used to show 'respect' to the person they want to talk.

Nivedita Silveira


Thank you for the meanings.

You should see the move Oh my god, or OMG and this movie really teaches you
everything about a guru
Dr Gurudeo Anand Tularam


About Guru and 29 other forms of teachers I have a list of explanations

Guru, Teacher, Swami, Ananda are the popular names in the present day world.
Less popular are the words like Desika, Tirtha, Giri. All these have made the
mess of confusion in the contradiction ridden modern world and removed the peace
of the individual. But what is meant by guru and all these names. Who has to
keep them ? When one has to keep them ? What qualifications and qualities these
names represent ? These names are like degrees in the regular world. They are
appending after a particular stage of sadhana is reached. The following are the
qualities of the GURU. What is the definition of the Guru and the actions of the
guru with which we can recognize him? How the other terms are defined in the
sashthraas ?

1.GURU: GU means darkness, RU what restrains it. He who restrains the darkness
is the Guru, Ga means fulfillment, R means the uplifter from the fall, U
signifies Vishnu, He who contains all the three is called as Guru Ga signifies
the wealth of knowledge, R illumination, and U Shiva he who contains these is
Guru, because he brings the wealth of the understanding to those who are blind
to the TRUTH of the SELF and the AGAMAS that are secret which is called as GUHYA
and because he is equivalent to the gods representing the Mantras he is called
2.ACHARYA: He who makes his disciples live and work according to the established
truth and the knowledge of the sages is Acharya, as he accumulate the evidence
in the sashthraas for the above truthful life he is called as acharya, he who
himself teaches all that come in the form of movement and non moment (chara and
achara) and who is expert in the Yama, Niyama.. is called as Acharya.

3.ARAADHYA: As he gives the Consciousness of the self (atma bhava), because he
transcended the likes ad dislikes (raga dwesha), and as his mind is centered
solely in the Dhyana he is called as Aradhya.

4.DESHIKA: Because he embodies the form of the deity he is worshiping (devatha),
and because he showers the grace on the student (sishya )and because he is
embodiment of the compassion (karuna) he is called as Deshika

5.SWAMI: Because he exudes his inner peace (swantha) and deliberates on supreme
truth (swa) and because he is devoid of false realization and maya (mithya
Gnana), he is called as Swami.

6.MAHESWARA: Because he is devoid of the blemishes of the mind (manodosa),
because he refutes the dry arguments (hetu vada), because of his love to all
manifestation like animals and other species (svadi), and as he is always
playful (ramya) he is called as Maheswara.

7.SRINATHA: Because he imparts the knowledge of the Cosmos (sri), and instructs
about the vibration (nada), and because he can block any ignorance from
hindering the students achieving the Atma Tatva (sthaghitha), he is called as

8. DEVA: Because he crossed the bounds of the space and time and instructs the
same (desa, kala), because he instructs the regulating of the Cosmic
manifestation (Bhutha Dharma), he is called as Deva.

9. BHATHAARAKA: As he removes the bonds of the manifestation (bhava), because he
instructs about the Soma (the bliss of the cosmos) as symbolized by letter TA
(soma vidya), and as he protects the wisdom (rakshana), and as he is the one to
be sought for the sadhana (kaamaniya), he is called as Bhathaaraka.

10. PRABHU: Because he dwells on the well guarded essence of the Vedas and
Agamaas (praguptha) and makes people by making them to enjoy the fruits of the
above texts (bhuktha), he is called as Prabhu.

11.YOGI: As ho throbs and realizes the wisdom through the Yoni Mudra, and as in
that process he understands the essence of the vibratory states (Gi), he is
called as Yogi.

12.SAMYAMI: As he rejects the bonds due to the attachment (sangha dukha), as he
transcends all ashramaas of life (yatra kurtha) and as he fasts or transcends
the desire to eat and drink (mitha) he is called as Samyami.

13.TAPASVI: As he meditates on the different realities of the truth (tathva), as
he negates all the censures of the knowledge (pari vaada), as he accepts all the
cosmic well beings in his body (svikaara), he is called as Tapasvi.

14. AVADHUTHA: As he is un decayable bliss (Aa), as he filled all the bonds of
the world with the cosmic prana (vaa, dhu), and realized the essence of the Tath
(tha) {as in tath tvam asi}, he is called as Avadhutha.

15.VIRA: As he is free from the attachment (vita), and from the intoxication,
jealousy, anger, delusion, and far away from the Tamas, and Rajas states of the
cosmos he is called as the Vira.

16.KAULIKA: Kula is the cosmos born out of the combination of Shiva and Shakthi,
he who knows the art of liberating from this manifestation is Kaulika. Kula is
Sakthi, and Akula is Shiva and those who are proficient on meditating on both
sakthi and shiva are the Kaulikaas.

17. YATHI: He who makes the people obtain (Ya), the divine wisdom by reducing
the ignorance (Thi), is called as yathi.

18. SADHAKA: As he gathers the essence of the Gurus teaching (Sa), by treading
the path of the Dharma (Dha) and following the KARMAS (Ka) prescribed by the
teacher he is called as Sadhaka.

19. BHAKTHA: He who adores with supreme devotion (Bha), following the Karmas of
the sashthraas (Ka), and crosses the bandages of the manifestation (Tha) is
called as Bhaktha.

20. SISHYA: He who dedicates his body, mind and praanaas to the Holy GURU and
learns (sikshyathe), the essence of the YOGA (Ya) is called as Sishya.

Note here that the words Parama Hamsa and Ananda are not defined. The Parama
Hamsa is dealt in the Parama Hamsopanishad. So the text never attempted to
define it. Ananda is the word given to the Supreme lord, or Brahman so sashthra
never dared to define it, as it never expected that it becomes a common title
for the ignorant. The ananda is clearly defined in the Taithariya Upanishad.
(Always it is the rule that the repetitions should never exist in the
Shashthra). All these are in the realm of the Adhyatmika Sadhana. For the
worldly things these are the following categories teachers exist.

21. PUROHITHA: Puram is the Town, and the Body, he who seeks the welfare of the
Puram is the Purohitha.

22. ARCHAKA: He who performs the kamya karma (except the Pooja Vidhi) in the
Consecrated temples for the welfare of the society is called as Archaka.

23. POOJARI: He who performs the Pooja Vidhi according to the Agama, Tanthra,
and Manthra texts knowing the 9 bhedhas of the Murthis and Murthi sakthis is
called Poojari.

24. YAGNIKA: He who performs the Yagnaas is called Yagnikaas.

25. AGNI HOTHRIS: He who is versed with the Agni Hothra of the Yagna and the
types of the Agnis and the knowledge belonging to the Agni Hothra is called as
Agni Hothri.

26. SOMAYAJI: Who performs the Soma Yagnaas or Pavamaana Soma Yagnaas are called
as Soma Yajis.

27. SIDHANTHI: He who explains the Sidhantha (the science and Laws) of the
existence by explaining the process of the Panchanga and proves the auspicious
nature of the wisdom of the Sashthraas.

28. UPA ADHYAYA: He who takes the student unto him and teaches them the
Sashthraas according to their aptitude is Upadhyaya.

29. PARIVRAAJAKA: He who moves from one place to the other place preaching the
dharma and karma to the people.

30. PITHADHIPATHI: He who supervises and regulate the functioning of the worldly
teachers and their actions.

Thank you

Bala N. Aiyer

Hare Krishna

No difference...all are salutations which are "self" proclaimed by the people
who are anti God. Actually your Guru, Sadguru, etc is your viveka. Now a days,
there is a business started by anti Gods in the name of religion. Our Scriptures
categorically state that either Viveka is your Guru or Bhagwaan Himself is your
Guru. Hence beware of these Kaliyugi self proclaimed Sris, Pujyas, Gurus,
Acharyas and Swamis. Any one who directs you towards himself, any one who is
interested in Kanchan (money) or Kamini ( women) , who is surrounded by them ,
any one who declares himself/herself to be Guru, etc is FRAUD, FRAUD...FRAUD.
There is NO NEED for you to make any Guru or Sadguru, there is no need for any
Acharyas or Sris or Pujyas for your emancipation. You need not search or yearn
for them...when time will come they will come to you effortlessly...JUST AS:
Parrot comes when fruit ripens.



Guru stands for a teacher, mostly a religious or spiritual teacher. Etymological
meaning traces to gurutva means having some weight or gravitiation in his

Satguru is nothing but sat+ guru, where sat stands for truth and truth is God
or reality and reality is but Death. See the mystery, every one knows that he is
certain to die, but not sure of birth or rebirth.

Pujya stands for respectable, revered, worthy of worship etc.

Acharya means the one who practises. AacharaN means practice. Hence a preceptor.
He sets himself as an example or precept by his own practice. He may or may not
preach. But he practices in such a way that others if they understand get
inclined to emulate him.

Sri stands for Mr., but mostly in a spiritual/religious context. Its origin can
be traced to sa+ra+ee which are the coded letters for the gunas/ or properties
through which nature manifests itself. sa- sat and ra-rajas. ee or i stands for
continuance. Ofcourse, the third guna of Tamas is not reflected, as the word is
supposed to be prefixed to a human of high moral character.

Swami stands for Master. Literally, Swa- means self and mi for control. One who
has absolute control over his sense, mind and self.

Dhrama means religion and may also mean property, law etc. in other contexts.
But its meaning has been limited to a school of thought about God. Origin from
DharaNaa, a firm and determined thought.

B B K Murthy.

Guru is word which can be used to that person who is specialism in some field
like astronomy, science,etc
Sat Guru is who have power to transform his disciple into divine form and more
than that. Also show them right way. Sat Guru word cant be described in words .
It can be self realize.

Pujya: to honor someone or to respect.

Acharya is similar to teacher who have specialized in something.

Sri or swami:

mickey karulas

Guru – A teacher / guide;

Sat Guru – An enlightened master / Saint who has realized his own self / God and
who helps others to attain the self / God;

Pujaya – A Sat Guru / Guru / Swami / Acharaya etc engaged in God's bhakti,
righteous deeds and welfare of worldly society;

Sri – A respectful address for a male person like Mister in the English;

Swami – A saint who has relinquished the worldly comforts for the sake of
attaining self / God.


Rajinder Mohan Vohra


Hari Om

At the outset let me congratulate you for you applying perfectly your VIVEKA (
unique power of discrimination available to every human being as special grace
of Paramatma) ! I may however add here that you have actually not "converted"
rather you reverted to your original dharma. Hindu Dharma or Sanatan Dharma is
not a dharma of any class, creed, color or is a dharma which is
applicable to entire humanity irrespective of any caste, creed, culture,
civilisation, color, character, gender, country...,! It timeless, beginning
less, eternal dharma. Rest all dharmas have a founder but not Sanatan Dharma,
rest all dharmas can be traced back with reference to time of their origin but
not Sanatan Dharma. Sanatan Dharma is as eternal, timeless and beginning less as
is humanity itself. It has no founder !!! Hence my heartfelt, sincere

As regards various titles like Guru, Sadguru , Acharya, Sri, Pujya etc referred
by you...let me frankly state to you that in the past they might have been
indicator of MAHATMAS , capable of guiding a Jeeva to emancipation and therefore
Scriptures also refer such titles, but in today's times it is very very rare
commodity. Actually, in old Scriptures also the terms Guru or Sadguru or Acharya
were used for God Realised souls only with a clear mandate that Guru etc can be
any body/ thing even a child or enemy, even as inert a thing as situation or
circumstance , even trees or birds and not necessarily a human made of flesh and
bones. But in today's times the safest course would be reject lock , stock and
barrel any body who claims to be Guru or Satguru or Acharya or Pujya or Sri ...!
Fundamentally your Guru is your VIVEKA who is situated right inside every human
being and all Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma are unanimous on this. Further all
Scriptures are also unanimous that KRISHNAM VANDE JAGADGURUM ( Krishna is Guru
of entire world) .

Therefore my answer to your query would be: All titles referred by you mean one
and the same viz Either VIVEKA or Lord ( Krishna/ Paramatma). You can safely and
harmlessly persue this definition and should note that GURU / SADGURU etc
referred by you is an ELEMENT and not some one made of flesh and bones. Believe
us on this, read many postings in this regard on this Divine Gita Talk Forum and
fearlessly reject all Sris, Pujyas, Gurus, Sadgurus,
Swamis, Acharyas etc. Follow their words if you find them appealing but NEVER
their bodies, legs or heads ...NEVER !!

NEVER NEVER worship their bodies. This Divine Forum as an exception is dedicated
that RAMSUKHDASJI Maharaj was one of the bitterest criticisers of these so
called Gurus, Swamis, Pujyas etc. For Him Swami was merely a caste just as Vyas
is merely a caste of mine. He never allowed any one to touch His feet, He never
allowed any one to worship Him or photograph Him. But such MAHATMAS are rare,
rare literally EXTINCT today. He never made any disciple and He never become any
one's Guru : Sadguru etc. He never directed any one towards Himself or His body
....He always directed all towards Paramatma. Hence the safest course would be

Jai Shri Krishna

Vyas N B


Guru is word which can be used to that person who is specialism in some field
like astronomy, science,etc
Sat Guru is who have power to transform his disciple into divine form and more
than that. Also show them right way. Sat Guru word cant be described in words .
It can be self realize.

Pujya: to honor someone or to respect.

Acharya is similar to teacher who have specialized in something.

Sri or swami:

To know what really a satguru is and how he can transform mankind into divine



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[gita-talk] Re: Why then this Punishment for her and her parents ?


my friend has a 10 year old daughter who is mentally unstable since birth even
though she has committed no sin. why then this punishment for her & her parents.
please explain if you have the time as this problem is with many such parents
balbir singh


How to know what Swamiji answered...



Hari Om

One often gets confused by the situations and circumstances presented by life to any individual Jeeva. One wonders as to why some one gets born in a slum and other in a palace. Actually in each human's life a Law operates...called Law of Karma. This law is very specific, individual and precise. Your birth, this very human life, your age, all circumstances and situations...your parents , actually everything which you perceive and see is Karma Phala...every result is outcome of your past Karma. It is not easy to decipher out as to what result is of which Karma done at what time. But the Law of Karma operates , on this there is no doubt. Scriptures say : your birth, age and bhog ( how much worldly things you are able to consume/ enjoyment and suffering) are invariably due to past life Karmas. Your present life Karmas have no role there. For example, whatever be your present life Karmas, if you are destined to live for say 60 years, you shall live that much only. Similarly some one may be born physically challenged and some one may be born blind or become blind later may appear also to an onlooker , for example, that somebody lost say eye or life in an accident but actually these 3 things are solely governed by your prior life Karmas. Hence there is no point in attributing present life reasons for these 3 things. One , therefore, should focus only on DUTY and should accept at least these 3 things as it is and should not waste time in enquiries. One should however can be certain that in this Creation made by Paramatma, there is no scope for any error . No one else , except you yourself, is responsible for good / bad/mixed results( situations/ circumstances/ happenings/incidences/ states etc) and you must accept them accordingly.

Law of Karma is too precise and scientific. Take example of farmer doing farming. In India, traditional farming is done through plough, where you use your right hand in pushing the iron nail in the earth and left hand in sowing seeds. That is Karma where right hand gets used in causing violence to mother earth and creating a line on the earth and simultaneously you sow seeds in that line by your left hand. When results come, in your right hand there comes a sharp knife like 'daronta' and in your left hand come the produce. You keep cutting the harvest taking knife in right hand and taking grains in your left hand. The hand which hurt the earth through that sharp nail gets a knife ( 10/20 times bigger than that nail) as result of that Karma and the hand which fed earth and sowed the seeds gets bountiful harvest of food grains. Such precise is Law of Karma.

Hence do not get panicky, do not attribute funny reasons, do not get despaired when you see life presenting to you undesirable results or situations or circumstances...believe it is due to your own past Karmas...and keep doing your duty.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


i am a person above seventy i have seen my parents who were very pious,pure  souls but they had to suffer in their later life too much physically ,emotionally .and financially too much they were very principled people did not take help at the cost of their self respect --i have my self suffered many folds in life ,i do get this feeling why people who are pure,simple,and don;t do any thing wrong in life they have to suffer more than those who are [practical]-diplomatic ,who don't have values can make compromises are successful ---in this particular case we [who believe in the rebirth ]always have this feeling at least that it may be due to his or her purva janm -karmas --may be of the child ,may be of the parents -[garud- purana]says that one is associated with people only to give or take in this life what he or she has given or taken from that one in the previous life --
jai shree krishnaÂ


Jai Shree Krishna

I will also add that the situation has also provided an opportunity for parents
and child's to take the next step in their journey towards nirvana, by the
Actions of Seva.

Only those on higher stages of Nirvana get the harder tests / opportunities for

Pain brings us closer to God and happiness makes it hard to remember God.

After saying all this, I also want to acknowledge the pain and suffering of the
child, parents and those who love them. I pray to Krishna to give them love,
strength, intellect, peace and happiness. May they be under God's special care.

Jai Shree Krishna



When difficulties/challenges come in our lives, it may be an opportunity to test
our own self with patience and wisdom. These may prepare us for larger roles in
our lives.... These should never be taken as punishment. Divine plan is for
growth of everyone of us.... Let us be grateful for everything that comes our

Sunil Jain


As per the law of karma you are placed in a situation which is the result of
your karma in your previous births. thus every one suffers due to his/her
action. here is why sages and saints tell us to discriminate and judge your
thought, word and deed in the manner that it help you get rid of these
sufferings, or else one has to continue this chain of pain and pleasures next
unknown births.with love ckkaul.

Yah vartaman karmo se bhi hota hai.

Jaise amavsya Poonam Shivratri Deepawali Janmashtami ko sambhog karane se.



special need children are born to special parents who has more patience than
normal children parents. god is great he knows everything
god bless you all

Hari Om

Life is not something which begins at birth and ends at death. It is a
continuous process. Thus, Talking about a 10 year old and wondering as to the
quantum of sin , disregards the fact that her soul is eternal and so are her
Karmas. The journey of soul into bodies is continuous and beginning less. Hence
look at this girl and her parents accordingly ! Secondly, do not look at human
life as some reward or punishment .,..look at human life as place where you
don't enjoy or suffer, rather where you perform your DUTY ! Here , in the
instant case, you as an onlooker /well wisher and parents of this Divine 10 year
old girl, should see and accept the given situation as DUTY and should do
whatever is best possible to impart peace and comfort to her. Do not brood and
fret and grieve as to " Why with me" ? No....keep doing your duty, keep
accepting whatever situation or circumstance life presents to you...keep doing
your best....! It is not real , it is not any pleasure or is not is your is examination hall. Do it whole
heartedly...! Worship Krishna through your Duty to this girl. In long run,
neither you will be there, nor the dilemma of this girl will be there and nor
her parents will be there, nor the existing situation or circumstances will be
there. What will remain is: How did you fare in your examinations,..called Human
Life? Do not question as to why in an examination hall , you got a tougher
question than others? Try your best to attempt the answer to the best of your
ability. That is it...!

Look therefore at the world, at the girl, at the existing situation and
circumstances as an opportunity to perform your DUTY to the best of your
ability. Do good Karmas now, so that such challenging circumstances do not
repeat themselves in this or future lives. Do not attribute any reasons or
causes, do not hold any one responsible for good or bad circumstances of past,

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


We many times suffer due to commissions and omissions of our parents and those
with whom we come in contact and also those with whom we never come in contact
because there is organic unity in this universe as taught by GEETA.Law of Karma
is misunderstood and hence such type of questions.-- N K DIXIT--


One thinks as if non-technical questions can be answered.
There are technical questions such as how to run a computer, where to buy food,
arithmetical questions, how to book a ticket and so on.
They all can be answered by somebody or you can find the answers somewhere. The
information is available.
Now one is under the illusion that non-technical questions- what is all this
existence, why I feel stressed, why I feel angry, why I feel fear, why the other
is richer or poorer than me, why there is negativity( corruption, terrorism and
so on) all around, why I feel constrictions to my freedom and so on can also be
There are those in whom these questions do not arise. They are continuously
adjusting themselves without raising these questions. The adjustment is
essentially with the help of some idea.
Now there are those who are stuck up, who want to find answers to non-technical
Some of them accept religious or scientific explan ations. Religious
explanations are like- it is God who is doing all this, it is all the result of
one’s fate, some saviour will take care some day and so on. Some are satisfied
with these answers. There are others who do not accept these answers but hope to
find the answers some day in future. They may offer scientific or economic
These explanations satisfy them.
But if you have become so passionate about these questions, so serious about
these questions that you want an answer ‘Now’. No explanation, religious or
scientific is able to assuage the pain of these questions. You are bent upon.
Suddenly, you realize that these questions can not be satisfactorily answered.
There is no one to answer. You are Alone. From whom you are seeking answers.
Now you will touch the original pain, the original resistance, the original
energy on which the Life is sustained.
The need for answers suddenly drops; you become one with Life as it is.
You are ju st close to the mystery of Existence.
Fundamental Expressions
Y V Chawla


Dear Mr.Balbir Singh
All human beings are mentally unstable with reference to one thing or the other.
Many seers say that we do not need two people to do politics. Now-a-days there
are many methods and equipments to ascertain the range of unstability of mind.
Once we get to know this and keep a periodical tab, it will make dealing with it
little easier. You/your friend may be aware of this.
If one looks at it philosophically, acceptance and choicelessness can be two
tools. One of the major teachings of Githa is do not go behind the reasons.


Dear Sadaks,
Life span of Athuma is not the life span of a body. The Athuma leaves a physical
body when time span decided based on previous birth Karma. What I do now will be
next birth life span. In next birth if I accumulate very bad karmas at near end
of my life. I die but get birth like this. The parents are the ones who enjoyed
their earlier birth child earnings illegally. Say a parent sends a child to
prostitution and earn money, they suffer next birth by paying their dues. A
parents torchered their children unjustified, next the same child torcher their


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[gita-talk] Re: Sri Gita Jayanti (Dec 23, 2012)


Hari Om

What to talk of Gita? It teaches you the way you should live in this world. There is nothing in this universe which does not get addressed by Gita. It is a Divine song...while Vedas are breaths of Lord...Shrimad Bhagvadgita is the voice of God. JUST AS: From a water well thousands take water for decades and still water  remains there SIMILARLY: There is no end of bhavas of Gita. One book Gita alone is enough for emancipating you. 

The best way to read Gita is to surrender to it. If you try to use your intellect , then Gita becomes one of the grandest riddles, you have ever come across. There is no parallel of Gita in Holy Scriptures of any religion across the planet. It is not spoken for any particular caste, creed or religion, it is for humanity at large. Gita is for each one us. There is no insistence in Gita for following. All beliefs, cults, religions, philosophies come within Gita while Gita is not within any specific darshana. 

What a joy the soul gets when you recite Gita in its original form in Sanskrita !!! Doing reverse paath of Gita gives you instant peace. You get lost in its divinity. The best commentary on Gita is of course from Shri RAMSUKHDASJI Maharaj. Reading Sadhak Sanjeevani itself may emancipate you.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Shree Hari
Dear all Ram Ram!
Congratulations to you on Sri Gita Jayanti ... (December 23, 2012)!
On this very auspicious day may the Almighty inspire us all to study Gitaji daily and imbibe the teachings of Gitaji in our day to day life.

For the Mahatmyam of Gitaji, Lord Vishnu says to Earth, in SriVaraha Purana:
"Even he who is dominated by 'Prarabhda Karma' can be aMukta and a happy man in this world if he be devoted to the constant practice of the Gita. No new Karma ever taints him. Furthermore, I abide in the refuge of the Gita; the Gita is My foremost residence. I protect the three worlds based on the wisdom of the Gita."

It was out of pure love that Lord Krishna taught all the secrets of spiritual life in Gitaji. The heart of Gitaji is the heart of a mother. The living spirit of a mother's heart breathes through it. No mother could look with unconcern when her children suffer from pain and grief. So the Gita mother, moved with infinite pity at the spectacle of human suffering, has offered every kind of relief and remedy to the innumerable shocks and ills of human life. First the secret of Karma Yoga is taught; then doctrine of Bhakti. Not content with it, the method of Dhyana was taught. Again, not satisfied with it, the knowledge of the Supreme is revealed. Thus having taught every kind of spiritual practice, and having revealed every source of strength, peace, and blessedness for mankind, the Gita mother fulfilled her great duty to her beloved children.  
The following words of Mahatma Gandhi recording his personal experience of adherence to the laws of the Gitaji, are highly encouraging to all.  "I lost my earthly mother who gave birth long ago, but this eternal mother (Gita) has completely filled her place by my side ever since. When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon I turn to Gita and find a verse to comfort me and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of external tragedies and they had not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe all this to the teachings of Bhagavadgita only." 

As the universal Mother, Gitaji makes no distinction among her children. She welcomes all to her bosom, - the high-born and the lowly, women and children, animals and birds, nay, the entire creation, - gives them protection and leads them on the path of liberation. She declares with her majestic voice that liberation is the birthright of all humanity without distinction of race and religion, color and nationality, age and sex.
(Ref: Gita Makaranda by Swami Vidyaprakashananda).
Revered Param Sharddheya Swami Ramsukhdasji has delved deep into this profound scripture and extracted invaluable gems, which are enshrined in his most outstanding scholarly work "SADHAK SANJIVANI" (Life-giving herb), widely recognized as one of the best commentaries on Srimad Bhagavad Gita. In 2005, at the age of 102, Swamiji left his mortal body, however his work will remain as an eternal inspiration for generations to come.

Loving regards, 
Madan Kaura


Best wishes on the auspicious occasion of Sri Gita Jayanti.
Thankful for the wise thoughts being expressed by all Sadhakas.


Happy Gita Jayanti. Let us follow the principles of Gita and advance spiritually.



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[karmayog] Digest Number 6369

17 New Messages

Digest #6369
The problem is us by "Tanya Mahajan" mahajantanya
Re: Donate books, Receive books by "karmayog - tanya"
Re: making retired people productive by "Dr. NC Jain" j_nc2000
No Country for women by "karmayog - tanya"
The Demographic Disconnect by "karmayog - tanya"


Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:15 pm (PST) . Posted by:


Shree Hari

Dear all Ram Ram!

Congratulations to you on Sri Gita Jayanti ... (December 23, 2012)!

On this very auspicious day may the Almighty inspire us all to study Gitaji daily and imbibe the teachings of Gitaji in our day to day life.

t was out of pure love that Lord Krishna taught all the secrets of spiritual life in Gitaji. The heart of Gitaji is the heart of a mother. The living spirit of a mother's heart breathes through it. No mother could look with unconcern when her children suffer from pain and grief. So the Gita mother, moved with infinite pity at the spectacle of human suffering, has offered every kind of relief and remedy to the innumerable shocks and ills of human life. First the secret of Karma Yoga is taught; then doctrine of Bhakti. Not content with it, the method of Dhyana was taught. Again, not satisfied with it, the knowledge of the Supreme is revealed. Thus having taught every kind of spiritual practice, and having revealed every source of strength, peace, and blessedness for mankind, the Gita mother fulfilled her great duty to her beloved children.

The following words of Mahatma Gandhi recording his personal experience of adherence to the laws of the Gitaji, are highly encouraging to all. "I lost my earthly mother who gave birth long ago, but this eternal mother (Gita) has completely filled her place by my side ever since. When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face and when I see not one ray of light on the horizon I turn to Gita and find a verse to comfort me and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full of external tragedies and they had not left any visible and indelible effect on me, I owe all this to the teachings of Bhagavadgita only."

As the universal Mother, Gitaji makes no distinction among her children. She welcomes all to her bosom, - the high-born and the lowly, women and children, animals and birds, nay, the entire creation, - gives them protection and leads them on the path of liberation. She declares with her majestic voice that liberation is the birthright of all humanity without distinction of race and religion, color and nationality, age and sex.
(Ref: Gita Makaranda by Swami Vidyaprakashananda).

Revered Param Sharddheya Swami Ramsukhdasji has delved deep into this profound scripture and extracted invaluable gems, which are enshrined in his most outstanding scholarly work "SADHAK SANJIVANI" (Life-giving herb), widely recognized as one of the best commentaries on Srimad Bhagavad Gita. In 2005, at the age of 102, Swamiji left his mortal body, however his work will remain as an eternal inspiration for generations t o come.

Loving regards,
Madan Kaura


On Swamiji Maharaj's inspiration, following on-line resources are now available; on this special day, pls. forward them to your dear ones:
In Hindi -
In English -
To receive a daily message - send a blank email to:
Send questions to:


Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:15 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Tanya Mahajan" mahajantanya

zigzackly: The problem is us

If you haven't been discomfited by a government form that demands a
father's or husband's name, you're part of the problem.

If you think that a woman must change her name, first or second or
both, when she marries, you're part of the problem.

If you are not ashamed of laws that treat women as if they were
possessions of a man, or less than men in any way, you're part of the

If you work for, or patronise, a company that insists a woman has no
identity of her own, that she ceases to become part of her birth
family once she is married, you're part of the problem.

If you think that ladies compartments in trains and ladies seats in
busses are a solution, you're part of the problem.

If you think security cameras and banning sun-film on vehicles are a
solution, you're part of the problem.

If your son can stay out late but not your daughter, if your daughter
must be 'dropped home' but not your son, I know I'm being hard on you,
and I would do the same in our cities, but you're part of the problem,
as I am.

If you are not distressed by playgrounds where little boys run wild
but where you don't see any little girls, by boys coming out to play
cricket on the street during a bandh, but not girls, maybe you're not
observant enough, or maybe you're part of the problem.

If you run an ad campaign that has hunky male film stars asking the
world to 'be a man' and join him in protecting women, you're part of
the problem.

If you think that getting men to think of all women as their mothers
and sisters and daughters is a solution, perhaps you're not a problem,
but I'm sorry, I think you're very wrong. It should be enough to think
of them as fellow human beings, with rights of their own as valid and
as important as yours.

If you think offering bangles to a man, or saying he should be wearing
a sari, is an insult, you could be making a very subtle point about
gender imbalance, in which case I'm sorry I didn't get it. Or you
could be part of the problem.

If you call sexual harassment 'eve-teasing,' you're making a crime
sound like boys-will-be-boys mischief, and that, I'm afraid, makes you
part of the problem. If you think that 'outraging the modesty of a
woman' does not smell strongly of woman-as-possession, then perhaps we
have different sensibilities, but I'm inclined to think you're part of
the problem.

If you think that chow mein or other foods result in uncontrollable
libido, you're a lunatic and definitely part of the problem. If you
think anything can result in uncontrollable libido, you're a very
serious part of the problem and should be restrained for your own good
and the good of all around you.

If you think the solution is giving young men child brides so that
they can satisfy their lust, you're part of the problem.

If you think rape shames a woman, that her izzat has been stolen, that
she is henceforth a "zinda laash," you're part of the problem.*

If your stock visual for rape stories is a woman with her face hidden,
you're unimaginative, wrong, and yes, part of the problem.

If you think people having sexual intercourse, or even marrying,
outside the religious, communal, economic or gender boundaries that
you are comfortable with (and no, I don't include children and animals
here) is against your culture, you and your culture are part of the

If you think that she shouldn't have been wearing those revealing
clothes, because dressing that way is provocative; if you think that
she shouldn't have been out that late, alone; if you think she was
being 'adventurous' because she was returning from work at 2 a.m.; if
you think rape happens because 'men and women interact with each other
more freely'; if you think she invited trouble because she had a
drink—or two, or three, or six—or because she smokes; if you think her
being the only woman in a group of men was foolish; if you think her
having had sexual intercourse with someone—or several someones—she's
not married to makes it understandable that other men would think they
can have sex with her against her will; if you think that her having
sexual intercourse for money makes it okay to have sexual intercourse
with her against her will; if you think her working at a bar is a
reason why she will be targetted; if you think that her husband has a
right to have sexual intercourse with her whether she wants to or not,
you're part of the problem.

Yes, if you think there's any possible justification for rape, if you
imply in any way that a woman is asking for it or provoking it, you're
part of the problem.

And if your reaction to young people protesting a culture that makes
rape commonplace is not standing up and saying, "We hear you, we're
sorry that you're upset enough to come together like this, we're upset
too, we're doing our best to stop this and our resolve is strengthened
because we know we can count on your help," but instead you fire water
cannons and tear gas shells at them, and then decide to lock down the
area, you're not only part of the problem, we will lose faith in your
ability to ever find a solution, because you are central to the

* Sentence rephrased after a suggestion from Harini Calamur

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:15 am (PST) . Posted by:

"MD Kini"

FDA Pushes to Release Genetically Modified Salmon into Environment

By Anthony Gucciardi

The very genetic coding of the planet is no longer held sacred, according
to the United States Food and Drug Administration. The agency is now
the release of genetically modified salmon called �frankenfish� to be
unleashed across the globe, threatening the genetic integrity of the entire
animal kingdom.

Mutated by scientists to grow twice as fast as a normal salmon through the
manipulation of the animal�s genetic code, the genetically modified salmon
created by the company AquAdvantage was actually *blocked for approval by
Congress back in 2011 due to serious health concerns*. In the report
regarding the ban on the approval of the genetically modified salmon by
Huffington Post, it is quite clearly spelled out how the FDA-backed mega
company AquaAdvantage only cares about losing investors and profits � not
the serious public health concerns.
*Health Not a Priority: Genetically Modified Salmon Maker �Frustrated�
Salmon Not Yet Unleashed Due to �Loss of Investors�*

As the report details, AquaAdvantage head Ron Stotish had this to say about
being blocked due to serious health concerns:

�He said, he is *frustrated* by the delay and* has lost investors in his

Poor Ron Stotish! This chief executive has lost investors! Never mind the
fact that the GM salmon could proverbially �muddy� the genetic �waters� of
nature, or cause unknown health issues in humans. No, that isn�t important.
What�s* important to Mr. Stotish is the loss of profits*. Since 1991,
AquaAdvantage pumped in over $67 million to develop this fish, and they are
not going to stop fighting until it�s on your dinner plate.

Thankfully, Stotish has the FDA to proclaim how great genetically modified
food is as usual. Ignoring the 37
Roundup is associated with and discounting all of the information linking
GMOs to health concerns<>
�scientific�, after all. Even mild critics of the �frankenfish� salmon
argue that it could at the very least cause allergies in humans, let alone
be unleashed into the wild and disrupt the genetic coding of fish for all
future generations.

The genetically modified salmon contains both a gene from the Pacific
Chinook salmon that causes the fish to produce growth hormone 24/7, as well
as a gene derived from an eel-like fish that triggers the hormone
production. This causes the fish to reach around 6.6 pounds instead of the
average 2.8 pounds. It also reaches 24 inches instead of 13.
*FDA Says GMOs Safe, Natural Foods Dangerous*

The fact of the matter is that numerous heads of the FDA have a deep (or
even current) history with biotech giants like Monsanto. People like
Michael R. Taylor, the current *Deputy Commissioner for Foods at the FDA,
was actually a Vice President at Monsanto*. This is the same man that led
an assault and<>
shutdown of the largest organic peanut butter factory. Meanwhile,
tumor-linked GMOs roam free.

And so will this genetically modified salmon unless activism prevails
against the FDA and AquaAdvantage.

But in the event that these GM salmon are unleashed, how will you know if
you�re eating GM salmon? After all, US citizens eat more
* 650 million pounds of salmon each year*. As you may have guessed, *the FDA
says that<>
genetically modified salmon does not need to labeled as it�s the �same� as
regular salmon*.

The fact of the matter is that this criminal organization must be stopped
before the genetic coding of plants and animals worldwide is irreversibly
contaminated. As biotech corporations with billions in funding begin to
alter animals after already manipulating 80 plus percent of just about
every staple crop, the fight for genetic preservation will continue.

This article was published at NationofChange at:
All rights are reserved.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:19 am (PST) . Posted by:


A new NPO Volunteer has registered at .

Name: Ms. Madhu Lekha
Work Location: Powai
Home Location: Powai
Can Volunteer for: Any assistance / help that I can render Any way that i can help Avaliable Part time - Weekdays Avlbl weekend, on weekdays on email/ from home Basic education, computers, drawing, or assistance Computer Education education, others Engineering, Maths, School teaching, accounting environment management related Managing Volunteers ORGANIC FARMING Software Skills Stress Management Sustainable Development teaching children, caring for old people and carin Teaching Computers teaching english weekdays timing after 5 pm n weekends before weekend activities YOUTH & CHILD RELATED Youth And Children
Nonprofits of interest: 2hrs on once a week activity available on weekends Child Education chilren, environment, animals education Media, Event management, Fundraising NGO DEVELOPMENT Orphanage, Street Children, Education, Event Manag related to Children, Environment etc. slow learning kids education teaching maths for secondary school students New work with 1 bmc shool in my area,make positive who would love to give any kind of help possible Writing.environment related
I want to volunteer as: I'm generally inclined towards social activities out of my satisfaction and would love to use my free time productively to help others in any way that I can..

My Profile: I'm a 2nd year undergraduate studying in IIT Bombay..
Interests: Dance(classical+western),playing Throwball,interiors,interacting with people
Languages Known: English, Hindi, Telugu
Volunteering experience: I'm a part of NSS in the institute in the first year..I've desgined the academic ciricculum for a trust school and now that I want to be in a long term.
Contact Details
Name: Madhu Lekha
Comments: A very good intitiative..Website is not up to the mark..I see that there are people working into it also..Hope it gets upgraded soon to a better form.. Also,I'm looking forward to work with you if compatible opportunities are in..

Registered Date: Sunday, December 23, 2012

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:19 am (PST) . Posted by:



announces India�s first ever
Policy Writing Competition
First prize: `1 lakh
Last day to submit your policies:
28 February 2013
For rules and other details please visit

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:19 am (PST) . Posted by:

"karmayog - tanya"

The following books have been donated to us.

Anyone interested in these can pick them up from our office in Fort, Mumbai,
between Monday - Friday, 10 am - 4pm. Please send us an email at to coordinate further.

All in English:

- Management and Business Text Books - 6
- Reference Books - 3
- Spiritual / Religious - 6
- 40 detailed books on internet and software related topics such as
internet, coreldraw, flash, adobe, excel, word, lotus notes, etc.
- GRE preparation - 5
- Fiction - 18
- Non Fiction - 21


Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:19 am (PST) . Posted by:

"padmini mani"

Dear Sirs,
Election after election we watch with impotent rage criminals being
elected. What is the solution?
Ram Mani

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:20 am (PST) . Posted by:

"Dr. NC Jain" j_nc2000

Dear sir
I agree with you. I being a retired person is actively engaged in RTI.You will be surprised to note that I got the refund of medical fee
after 16 yrs(of my daughter)which was forfeited by medical college in Mumbai . It was possible only due to the implementation of Consumer grievances redressal and RTI act after my retirement from BARC Mumbai
Dr N C Jain

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:20 am (PST) . Posted by:


Subject: Indicorps transition and invitation for discussion

Main Point: [Indicorps-News] Important news on Indicorps transition and invitation for Dec 26 call

Dear Indicorps friends and family,

We are writing to you today with news that has just been made public, and with a request for your involvement during a transition process for Indicorps.

For over a decade, Indicorps has asked aspiring young Indian leaders to dedicate a year or more in intense service in our homeland. Fellows were asked to make their life their message as they tackled some of India's most pressing problems. Indicorps' legacy at both individual and organizational levels has been nurturing an ecosystem that both values outcomes on the ground and the ethos with which Fellows assisted communities.

Perhaps more tangibly, Indicorps has (1) prompted life-changing learnings for hundreds of young Indians via grassroots engagement and (2) provided critical momentum on a diversity of local issues. Our geographical footprint stretches across 16 states in India and thanks to supporters like you, dozens of countries around the world.

In line with our way of constantly challenging the status quo, the Indicorps Board feels strongly that the time has come for us to challenge Indicorps' own "comfort zone," and further encourage leadership beyond the boundaries of the Fellowship. Thus, Indicorps will discontinue its Fellowship program at the end of the 2012-2013 Fellowship. Now more than ever, Indicorps believes in its vision of helping create values-driven, action-oriented leaders. The Board believes that, moving forward, we can collectively identify new and dynamic ways that Indicorps can make a progressive and lasting impact towards this vision.

Over the past decade, all of you contributed in innumerable ways to the health and vitality of Indicorps. In that spirit, we are excited to share with you this news about Indicorps' continued growth and development, and invite you to join us as we embark on this new journey. We welcome your thoughts, your participation, and your energy.

Immediately, we encourage you to:

1.. Participate in a conference call with Board members to discuss this transition on Wednesday, December 26 at 6:30 pm PST / 9:30 pm EST = Thursday, Dec 27 at 8:00 am IST
a.. Call information:
a.. Conference Dial-In number: (US) +1 209-255-1000, (UK) +44 (0) 7848 432913
b.. Participant AccessCode: 180205#
c.. India-based participants are encouraged to dial in via Skype or VOIP.
2.. Read a reflection on the Indicorps story and a FAQ list that may answer some of the questions you have - both are attached.
3.. Participate in the Indicorps transition. More is detailed on the website:
If you have any questions before the conference call, direct them to the Indicorps Board (Anand Shah, Roopal Shah, Dev Tayde, Kabir Kumar, Sonal Singhal, or Salimah Samji), Indicorps Co-Founder Sonal Shah, or Shital Shah. This transition team is cc'ed here as

We look forward to speaking to you soon and joining hands as we move forward.

Yours in service,

Indicorps transition team

Additional Information 1: IndiCorps Journey

Additional Information 2: Transition FAQs

Name: Shital Shah

Organisation: IndiCorps

Location: USA

Email 1:

Click here to Reply

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:20 am (PST) . Posted by:


children's movement for civic awareness - Bangalore - Karnataka has filled the Job Openings form in

Position / Title : Programme Associate
Location : Hosur
Type : full-time
Renumeration : 000
Job Description : Assist the Assistant / Program Coordinator with the following:

1. Volunteer management:-
a. Induction of new volunteers
b. Capacity building/ Training
c. Support and mentoring of volunteers ( backup for sessions, school campaigns, school profile, liaison with school management etc)
d. Tracking the performance of volunteers (reports, etc)
e. Conducting monthly meetings of the volunteers
f. Regular communication with volunteers

2. Induction of new schools into the programme.
3. Make regular visits to CMCA member schools (induction, launches, liaison with principal, participate in sessions, mentoring, grading etc.)
4. Regular Communication with partner NGOs
5. Execution of impact assessment requirement
6. Conducting sessions as Civic Tutor in any member school
7. Routine reporting and documentation for the programme
Tracking of Modules and sessions
Updating Civic Club level data
Updating of volunteer trends
Updating school trends
Maintaining School Profile inventory and tracking
Master list update
Documenting acts of active citizenship
Parents call sheet - update and follow up
Updating folders
Consolidating volunteers reports
Preparing summary reports as part of Programme reporting to Head Office Minutes of meetings and workshops
Sending regular updates for organisational website
Updating enrolment data of Civic Club members
Qualification / Experience :  Bachelor's degree in social science/humanities/social work or equivalent though a Masters degree or equivalent is desirable
 Minimum 1-2 years of relevant experience in either private or non-profit sector with a passion to be a change-maker
 Knowledge of English and Tamil
 MS Office Skills
 Event management
 Ability to manage group of volunteers
Coordinator's Email :
Comments : Where do the Jobs get posted and can we also look at the ad.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:27 am (PST) . Posted by:

"karmayog - tanya"

Sunday, December 23, 2012
Law and order: How to go from outrage to action
There is fresh rage on the bad state of law and order in India today. That rage is entirely appropriate.

My father was born in 1926 and experienced British rule. One of the high points of his life was participation in the freedom movement. He used to say to me with great regret that under British rule, the Shiv Sena would have never arisen. What has happened in India is a disgrace.

The interesting and important question is: How can the problems be solved?

Moral outrage does not lend itself to good policy analysis. As with the problem of corruption, the problem of law and order requires sophisticated thinking. Just as the young people who got enamoured by Baba Ramdev and Baba Hazare got nothing done in terms of combating corruption, we should worry about what comes next on law and order. Anger and outrage, coupled with low knowledge of political science and public economics, is a sure path to poor policy analysis. What matters is shifting from anger to analysis to action.

As an example, if laws are modified to prescribe draconian penalties for rape, then rapists are more likely to kill the victim. What is required is better quality implementation of the existing law.

What would it take to make the police and courts work better? The three ingredients that are required are incentives for politicians, resources and feedback loops.

Incentives for politicans
The first issue is incentives for politicians. Politicians will deliver law and order if they think that this is what will get them re-elected. From Indira Gandhi's time onwards, politicians in India have felt that the way to win elections was to focus on welfare programs for the poor. As long as this is the case, the narrative that will dominate the Indian State is that of poverty, inequality, and welfare programs.

Economists distinguish between public goods and private goods. Public goods are defined to be those that are `non-rival' (your consumption of safety does not reduce my consumption of safety) and `non-excludable' (it is impossible to exclude a new born child from the environment of safety). The legitimate purpose of the State is to pursue public goods. All citizens gain from public goods, and all voters should respond to these benefits. The first and most important public good is safety, which requires building the army, the police and the courts.

The Indian State has, instead, gone off on the adventure of building welfare programs: of government giving private goods to marginal voters. The first priority of the Indian State is the themes of poverty, inequality and welfare programs. Politicians need to learn that this hurts. Sheila Dixit should realise that her top priority in Delhi is law and order.

There are undoubtedly problems in the leadership and management structure of the police. I believe that once politicians want law and order, this will drive them to recruit the leadership that is required, and undertake structural reforms, so as to get results. As an example, look at how the politicians broke with PWD and setup NHAI, or setup Delhi Metro. The question that matters is : Do politicians want law and order? From the 1960s onwards, the minds of politicians have been addled by welfare programs.

If Rs.X is spent as a gift on a few marginal voters, it makes a certain difference to winning elections. If that same money is spent on public goods -- e.g. better safety for all -- it should make a bigger difference to winning elections since more voters gain. The question is: Do politicans see this and act in response?

The second issue is resources. India needs much more staffing in the police and the courts. This includes both technical staff (e.g. constables and judges) and support staff (e.g. clerical staff, operators of computer systems, etc).

Courts and police stations need to be high quality workplaces with air conditioning, computer systems, modern office equipment, canteens, web interfaces to the citizenry, lighting, toilets, and such like.

Policemen need to live in high quality housing. If policemen live in high quality housing and work in high quality offices, they will be more civilised both in terms of the quality of intake and in terms of how their behaviour evolves on the job. This will cost a lot of money. The State in India has very little money. To improve the police and courts will require cutting back on welfare programs.

As Robert Kaplan says, underdevelopment is where the police are more dangerous than the criminals. One element of this is the biases in recruitment. As an example, the police in Bombay tends to be male Maharashtraian and relatively low skill. This needs to evolve into a more sophisticated workforce, with gender, ethnic and religious diversity that reflects the cosmopolitan structure of the populace.

At present, in India, spending on police and courts (which are core public goods) is classified as `non-plan expenditure' and is treated as a bad thing. Spending on private goods like welfare programs is classified as `plan expenditure' and grows lavishly year after year. In the UPA period, plan expenditure has gone up by four times in 10 years. These priorities need to be reversed.

The other critical resource, other than money, is top management time. The simple question that I would ask Sheila Dixit or Manmohan Singh is: What fraction of your time do you devote to public goods? My fear is that the bulk of their time is spent worrying about welfare programs. When the top management is not focused on law and order, safety will degrade.

The lack of safety is a regressive tax: it hits the poor more than the rich. The rich are able to insulate themselves at a lower cost. When a policeman faces me on the street, he immediately speaks to me in a certain way once he sees that I come from the elite. Poor people are mistreated by both criminals and the police. Through this, the number of votes that should be affected by improved law and order is large. The people who care deeply about the poor, and would like to focus the Indian State upon problems of inequality and poverty, should ponder the consequences of what they have wrought.

Feedback loops
In order to think about law and order, we need measurement. I used to think that the murder rate is high quality data. Over recent years, I have come to believe that in many parts of India, not all murder is reported to the police. In this case, we are at ground zero about the state of crime: we know nothing about how much crime is taking place out there.

What you measure is what you can manage. I had recently written a blog post about health, and the same issues apply here. Our first priority should be to setup crime victimisation surveys [link].

The most important outcome that I think matters is a question asked in a household survey of parents: Are you comfortable when your teenage daughter is out alone at 11 PM? That's it. That's the end goal. Civilisation is where parents are comfortable when their teenage daughters are out alone at 11 PM.

Once the CPI is measured, and measured well, RBI can be held accountable for delivering low and stable inflation. In similar fashion, the Bombay police can be held accountable once we get a graph updated every month about the crime rate in Bombay, supplemented by quarterly data from crime victimisation surveys. This would generate feedback loops whereby we can judge whether Sheila Dixit has improved law and order in Delhi on her watch.

When Sheila Dixit gets anxious about the lack of progress on publicly visible statistics about the state of law and order in Delhi, she will have the incentives to recruit high quality leadership for the Delhi police, and to resource them adequately, to get things done.

Why are these good things not getting done?
This is the hardest question. I have three opinions about what has been going wrong.

The first lies in the incentives of politicans. Why do politicians pursue private goods for a few when they can instead spend money on doing public goods that benefit all? Why does democracy not push Indian politicans towards the centre? I think one element of the answer lies in first-past-the-post elections.

Today in India, winning elections does not require pleasing all voters; it only requires a base of 30% of the voters. This gives politicans a greater incentive to dole out goodies for the 30% and not work on public goods that please all voters. This reduces the prioritisation for public goods.

The second issue is that of urban governance. The defining challenge for India today is to make the cities work. But our constitutional structure is confused on the location of cities versus states. The feedback loop from the voters in Bombay do not drive improvements in governance in Bombay.

Delhi is unique in this respect in that it's the first city of India where the basic structure is correct. Sheila Dixit is the Mayor of Delhi. She is held accountable for making voters in Delhi happy. Voters in Delhi bother to vote in the Delhi elections. Hence, I am far more optimistic about the future of Delhi than I am with Bombay.

The third issue lies in the intelligensia. Western NGOs, aid agencies and the World Bank are focused on inequality, poverty and welfare programs. This generates incentives for individuals to focus on inequality, poverty and welfare programs, owing to the funding stream and career paths associated with western NGOs, aid agencies and the World Bank. These large funding sources and career paths have generated a distorted perspective in the Indian intelligensia. We need more minds in India who think in terms of first principles economics and political science, without the distortions that come from the worldview of development economics.

We blame politicians in India for being focused on welfare programs. But to some extent, they are influenced by the intelligensia. It is the job of the intelligensia to hold their feet in the fire, and hold politicians accountable for public goods. The politicians were too happy when, from the 1960s, the intellecturals proposed welfare programs, poverty action, socialism, etc.

I am grateful to Pradnya and Nandu Saravade who helped me think about all this.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:43 am (PST) . Posted by:

"simon martin"

Sahyog is a voluntary registered Trust working for the development of
tribals and marginalized population currently in Vasai area of thane
district since 1996. From the time of its inception, it has focused its
humanitarian service mainly in the four villages of vasai taluka; Bhuigaon,
Nirmal, Gass and Girij. The tribal in these four villages are migrants from
Mokhada, Manor, Palghar, Jawhar in Maharashtra, Whose main occupation is
farming. Also there are some others who have been living in these villages
for hundreds of years as landless laborers. The total population of this
villages would be approximately 25000 and of these about 6000 tribals.
These tribes are scattered all over the Thane district of Mumbai presidency
in Maharashtra.

We also give our center on rent for Meetings,trainings or for
conferencewith food and stay.
please find file attachment for our brochure to know more about our center
and for rates.
Please visit our website:

Thank you

Simon Martin
For Sahyog Social Center

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:11 am (PST) . Posted by:

"karmayog - tanya"

No Country for women
Harini Calamur

My column in today's DNA
In the vast ocean that is the World Wide Web, is a site called It is a crowdsourcing project that meticulously documents
violence against women and children in India. Spending a fraction of an hour
on this site is enough to send one into the pits of deep lasting depression.
The site tells you what most women have known for ever - India is a deeply
misogynistic nation where violence against women is the norm not the
exception; where violence is sudden and casual; where demand for sex is
considered a right; where forcing a woman is considered normal; and where
more often than not, the rapist gets away with it.

The Delhi rape case would have been just one more rape case, but for the
other brutality exhibited by the rapists. A woman travelling back with a
male escort (therefore not alone), in public transportation (albeit
privately owned and run); around 9 at night (therefore not late) with people
in it (therefore not empty), was gang raped, sodomised, brutalised with an
iron rod and discarded on the streets like a piece of used garbage. The girl
is still critical. She was more than a sexual vessel for a bunch of depraved
men out on a joy ride. She had dreams, hopes and aspirations; a desire to go
beyond basic education and to study to be a professional worthy of respect.
She was studying to be a physiotherapist. Her parents backed her ambition,
instead of providing dowry, they sold a part of their fields to educate her
and make her a professional. The kind of behaviour, one hopes, that most
parents exhibit towards their daughters.

The Delhi gang rape case has shocked the nation. But, it is neither the
first rape that India has seen, nor will it be the last. About six years
ago, the state of Maharashtra was shocked out of its collective wits by the
brutal gang rape and murder of Priyanka Bhotmange and her mother by a
village baying for blood. She was a 12th standard student who hoped to be a
policewoman. People tried hushing up the case, but there are events that are
too brutal to be hushed up. However, neither the graphic descriptions of the
case, nor the sentences to the guilty have stopped rape or violence against

If you glance through any news website, any TV channel, any newspaper, it
is impossible to avoid stories of rape, especially gang rape. English media
doesn't pick up too many stories from small town or rural India, but when
you glance through regional newspapers you will come across horrific crimes
against women. Most of these are also linked to class and caste. Women were
anyway at risk thrice over - on account of gender, on account of caste and
on account of class. And now there is an added factor - rage. A deep
visceral rage against women doing well, being independent, and considering
themselves to be equal to men. That rage is seen manifesting itself in the
number of acid attacks, murders, rapes, and violence against women who dare
say no. An independent woman outside 'male protection' is seen as 'fair game'
- available for hunting.

This gang rape case, more than anything else, exemplifies the chasm
between the two Indias. A modern India where women are equal, have the right
to dream and hope for a better tomorrow as an individual in their own right,
far removed from the demands of patriarchy and societal obligations; and an
India that is deeply feudal, that believes that women are chattel, that
might is right, that the rule of law is about might. India lives in multiple
time frames simultaneously. There is the aspirational India which talks of
equality; there is an India of the caste panchayats & religious diktats that
is deeply feudal and there is the India that lives between these two
extremes trying to ensure that its children can see a better tomorrow at the
same time as tolerating and condoning the excesses of social repressiveness
in the name of culture.

There is something terribly wrong with Indian society and the way it
treats women. It starts at the womb and discarding the girl-child like
garbage. It goes on to her second class status in society, in general. It
continues with her being the last priority throughout her lifetime. And
unless these change, unless they are made to change by the iron will of the
state, there is no hope for women kind. This will continue to remain no
country for women

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:11 am (PST) . Posted by:

"karmayog - tanya"

The Demographic Disconnect
by meetawsengupta
Every 22 minutes. The statistic of reported rapes in India.

Ponder that. Once every 22 minutes.

More frequently than you probably drink a glass of water.

So ordinary, everyday. Everywhere.

In homes, in offices, trains, buses, singly or in groups. A team sport, casually tear a life apart, tear their bodies apart. Day or night, under attack. To be was to be available, on call at every corner. To be a woman in India is to be ready to be traumatised at the next step. It is no way to live. Much analysis on rape has been repeated - a crime of passion, a cry for power, a need to subjugate, a need - physical, unfulfilled. The causes, the opportunities and some say - the provocation all have been discussed to futility. Bottomline - it is a crime. A violation. A line crossed - that must be punished.

And goes unpunished.

Justice is for the rich, we hear. Not entirely true, but there is indeed little faith or trust in policing. An ordinary girl living in India is unlikely to want to enter a police station, let alone speak to a policeman on the road. My encounters with policemen have been very civil, but then I have not dared ask for much. On the occasion when police stations had to be visited, the menfolk were firm. The women would be left at home, the men go in twos or threes - never alone. The fear of the law meant just that - you were afraid of what the law would unleash. It was best to stay away. The police too acknowledged that they had to deal with such rough people all the time that they had become used to brutality. This had little to do with gender - there are enough reports of both men and women being injured in police custody. And enough tales of the room at the back in each police station.

Police reforms have been called for time and again, and yet remain stalled. Police have scant training in interacting with people who are not criminals and seek their care and protection ( I can almost hear the laughter in the aisles as I write this). When dealing with a problem, the algorithm is not one that seeks resolution, but is one that engages a series of complex factors that include the contacts (i.e. access to privilege), monetary power among other things. Symptomatic of much that is wrong with they way priorities must be allocated within the force. And of course highlights the need to modernise the attitudes and behaviours of the police force. One suspects, they really did not know what their responses could have been other than what they delivered.

The brutal attack on a girl and her male friend in which her intestines were pulled out by a gang of six who raped her after knocking the friend out with an iron rod has shaken India. The brutality, the impunity of the crime and the fear that again, there would be no consequences - as there have been few punishments in the past. Women are considered disposable objects, their purpose to be of service, regardless of their economic worth. To be used and abused is the prerogative of men. Mediaeval? Possibly. Still around? Clearly.

Pervasive? Yes. Universal? No. As the gatherings at India Gate showed.

The current protest at India Gate was met with a disproportionate use of force. Brutal even, with peaceful protestors being teargassed, lathi-charged (beaten with large bamboo sticks) and water-cannoned. The gathering that had come together to protest lawlessness, to seek solutions for personal safety ended up putting their own personal safety at risk. The first ask of a government is to provide safety to its citizens. As my good friend Nitin Pai said in one of our policy training sessions - drawing on Weber, Hobbes, Locke and others - "We cede to the government the monopoly over use of violence." - this is the social contract. They keep residents safe, residents promise to adhere to the law of the land. This contract has collapsed. India Gate protests are about the inability of the government to provide security. A girl asks - "Why are they not scared of the law?"

People sought the death penalty for rapists. Some others knowing the history of law enforcement sought to implement vigilante justice. Calls for chemical castration many. The anger overflowed seeking retribution for wrongs present and past. Seeking a system that would deter the daily terrorists from plying their trade. A system that would do the job it was hired to do. An anecdote (posted on twitter too) says it all. The girl was groped on a train. On stepping off, she stepped up to the policemen posted there and pointed out the culprit to them. They ask her - what can we do about it? Did they not know what they could do? Were they untrained? Were they unwilling to do their job? Did they not have a protocol for dealing with this? Or were they seeking to offer immunity to the attacker? Because that is what must have happened. The attacker would have strutted away smug and encouraged. Ready to take his paws forward.

Were these protests about women, and their place in society? Ultimately, yes. They were about attitudes to women. How dare a man think it even possible to reach out and fondle a woman's body anywhere? How dare he stare at her as if she was there to be stripped of all respect? Women have been dealing with this quietly for years, some with firmness, others with resigned acceptance. The resentments have been simmering as truncated lives are managed, on sufferance. At least she can make tea and bear children.

Where did these attitudes come from? Was there a moment when men decided to subjugate women? This is global, yet the personal daily attacks on women are not pervasive everywhere. This is a personal attack that robs. The daily horror. If there was a newspaper that chronicled what happens to women as they step out, that is what it would be called - The Daily Horror.

Other countries too have had marauding armies, where rape and pillage was common, and yet both visitors and locals can walk around without fear of being molested, groped or attacked. Not eve-teased, like they seem to say amusedly in the films - attacked. Bollywood has to share some of the blame for the depravity. Not just the 'item numbers' but the storylines and dialogues too consistently reinforce regressive value systems. A casual meeting at a school function with the CEO of the Central Board of Film Certification this week inevitably led to a discussion on this issue - she is right. Bollywood has rarely provided an alternative narrative or positive role model for people to identify with I have to agree - womanhood in the movies is about physical desirability and access to it in ways that would qualify as crimes in many countries - stalking, harassing, imposing and much more. The woman of course capitulates and a methodology for the hapless viewer is established. Does it make sense to arrogate so much power to the movies, and such haplessness to the viewer? Movies do have power, as do television serials - as a quick look at the numbers in the audience, revenue streams and the influence on large markets of clothing and jewellery indicate. If the data has compelled the government to pitch Bollywood as a significant source of soft power outside the nation, surely, combined with the data, proves the case that it carries power within the nation too.

The deeper malaise will take decades to be eradicated. Many do not even understand the nature of the problem, the protest. The protest is about safety, true. But for many it was about not being a second class person in society any more. It was about seeking to be an equal human. Which women are not, as evidenced by the lack of parity in pay across the world. The Indian woman often has it both better and worse than her sisters in other countries. Often getting better chances to reach the boardroom, she has to run the gauntlet of big and small sexual encounters along the way, all the while being the perfect wife, mother, daughter in law, aunt.. the list goes on. These are all relationships that do not understand boundaries, as they do in the west. A work client may call you at 11pm on a Saturday, or an aunt in law may expect you to be on hospital duty in the middle of a working day. And yet, they manage much with grace, stretching themselves beyond what is humanly possible, while running the daily battle with the groper who may turn rapist at any moment. Maybe India Gate was about the rise of an economically empowered emotionally connected version of feminism. An angry, upset, disgusted and law abiding version that only seeks to live in safety and dignity.

The Disconnect:

Maybe the government did not understand that this was an outpouring of grief, not just anger. Maybe, as many misogynists revealed inadvertently, this was not considered important - this is the way it always has been, women can never be happy, what can anybody do, it will pass - this is just a weekend revolt. They just do not get it. For the government, was it just another angry demonstration that had to be quelled? Did they not realise that all problems are not people vs. the government - and some must be resolved together, with care and tact? Obviously not. The reaction to the peaceful gathering was disproportionate and escalated the anger and disappointments in ways that will have consequences for many years to come. Something broke this week, possibly the camel's back.

The protest was confusing to a linear authority - there was no clear charter of demands, nothing to be negotiated, no price to be bargained. Their traditional mode of dealing with the enemy was useless - this was not the enemy. They were seeking support, and somehow this message was lost in the trek up the president's hill. Or was willfully ignored. Could it be possible that the concept of a two way conversation with the public or a meaningful engagement is not understood? The government needs to evolve and adapt for the new generation. Demographics reveal the gap between the average age of the country and that of its 'rulers', the gap runs deeper. The attitudes of the future are more inclusive, collaborative and seek to build social bridges. A Public Private Partnership, if you will.

What is this protest about? What did it seek? As befits a democracy, there was no single dominant thought. Nor was there a leader, this was a gathering of equals. There were men and women there as safety is not a gender issue. There were young and old, mothers and children. Each stepping out of safe comfort zones in the bitter Delhi cold, some even staying the night. This is what a civil mature protest looks like and this is what deserves the respect and attention of authorities. Anger shared, acknowledged. You would be angry too if every living moment was running the gauntlet of groping greedy assault attack on identity and self.

The gathering sought to express and share sorrow. All it needed was a genuine acknowledgement of solidarity. What was delivered was the exact opposite - a demonstration of polarity.

What can the government do in response to an incident and consequent citizen protest? What should it do?

Prevent: In this case, it is true that many of the crimes against women are difficult to prevent unless there is a shift in attitudes and values. This must become a national concern, even a mission, and must be led by government efforts (once more, with feeling) . It is equally true that this is a long term goal. The flouting of little laws, the callousness of existing checkposts, all contributed to the incident. Prevention failure. Disciplinary matter.

What about the protest? Should it have been prevented? Absolutely not - in a free country, residents must be allowed to let their grief be shared. It is cathartic and even may lead to solutions being found in partnerships with governments. Holding on to grief in private enclaves can only cause problems in the future. More so - it is their right to protest.

Protect: This obviously was a failure. And at the core of the discussion. The government has failed to protect the people it was supposed to serve. As far as protecting the procession, the difference between the protest march in Bombay, (which ranks number 2 in the number of rapes) and India Gate protests in Delhi was marked. The police marched with the protestors. In Delhi, the police attacked the protestors. It is said that the protest turned violent. Does the police not have the training to calm a situation down, rather than try to stamp on it?

Prevaricate: It is possible to deflect the anger, but in this case any such pathetic attempts clearly demonstrate the disconnect with the public. As was amply demonstrated.

Procrastinate: They did - every reaction was too late, and often harsh. Situations that could have been managed were allowed to spiral. And this gave 'lumpen' elements and other political parties to jump into the fray. The protest was diluted, schisms were created and all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

Punish: This is what happened. Those who went to seek protection were punished. Punished for being hurt. The press who tried to report it were also attacked. The photographs are telling - the brutality undeserved. Families cowering, babies in arms. India has a strong visual memory of similar scenes from the early part of the twentieth century and it may have been wise to avoid this conclusion. The protest was highjacked, giving post facto justification for violence against protestors. It does not lessen the tide of rising tears that brought people out to the streets.

What should they have done?

Speak, communicate and reach out. Reach out with warmth, feeling and understanding. Ask, not tell. All they needed to do was listen. Open the doors and seek to understand before doing anything that would damage the spirit of the people. It is these people who are your demographic dividend. It is this generation that will pay the taxes that will build your roads and hospitals. Listen to them.

Yes, the government did what their processes told them to do - but it was not enough. Finding the culprits, arresting them, suspending the bus licence - these are operational responses to the specific incident. These clearly did not reflect either empathy or understanding. And was clearly poorly communicated.

As I type this, the prime minister has addressed the nation. The reactions are predictable, as was the address. This is about national values and about upholding freedoms. About decency and dignity. About simply living life in a civil society. If this fundamental need is not met, then something breaks.

Remember, a daughter of the nation is violated once every 22 minutes. Something breaks.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:42 am (PST) . Posted by:


The Subjugation Capital

Having pontificated for two days over the tornado of protests that have hit Delhi, I found time to contemplate if I *really* knew what they were protesting about. So I asked someone who has lived there and experienced the alternating splendor and horror of Delhi; my wife. This is what she had to say.

I love Delhi, the city. I love its wide, open roads, its wonderful architecture. I�ve made great friends in Delhi. I went to a wonderful school in Delhi. I�ve also suffered in Delhi. I�m one of millions of women with tales to tell of how Delhi has ground our self-respect and security to dust. General descriptions of harassment can�t adequately describe the horror a woman faces every day in the city. There isn�t a single moment when you�re walking its streets that you can think �I�m safe, I can breathe easy and enjoy the sunshine. What a lovely day!� If you have breasts, you�re fair game. It doesn�t matter who you are, where you�re from, how old you are, you can be a man�s property. You can be used for his gratification. You can be dominated.

I don�t want to recount the hundreds of times I�ve been groped in crowds in Delhi. Hands moving over you, pinching your bottom, rubbing your breasts as you desperately try to find some inch of ground that will be safe. Women routinely carry sharp objects like needles and drawing instruments to dissuade such attacks but there are too many incidents to deal with.

Once, while attending a wedding in Delhi, I was at a friend�s place and was about to leave for the venue. I called the bride�s mom to tell her I�ll walk down to the venue and I heard an unmistakable sense of terror creep into her voice. She dropped the bonhomie and almost shouted at me to stay where I was. She would send a car. I laughed and told her that she was being ridiculous. Her response was that of anger. �Stay where you are. DON�T MOVE! I�m sending a car. DO NOT walk alone, especially all dressed up. There�s no telling what might happen.� The venue was two blocks away in Southex, a very posh part of Delhi. It was five thirty in the evening and it was broad daylight.

I accompanied my friend�s relatives to a function at Pragati Maidan. With us was her 70 year-old grandmother. The lady was a widow, dressed in the characteristic white sari. She hobbled on a walking stick. The ground was crowded and dusty. As we made our way through the crowd, a young adolescent boy shoved his hand between her legs. He felt up a seventy year old woman hobbling on a walking stick. We were unable to reconcile this incident with any semblance of logic or sense. Why did this happen? Just. It was a female with female parts, which of course are the property of every human in Delhi blessed with a penis.

As a student in Delhi, I�d attend tuitions literally across the road from where we stayed. The proprietor was a burly man with a shy fourteen year old son. Every evening, after classes dispersed, it was that young boy�s job to make sure we girls safely crossed the street. That�s all. He�d just stand outside the gate and make sure we crossed a distance of fifty feet safely. He wasn�t worried about us being hit by cars. He was making sure we didn�t get molested. If a mob of men had shown up, the poor boy wouldn�t stand a chance. And yet, he�d be there every evening, standing alert and looking responsible for us.

Delhi�s sexist culture is a festering cesspool that permeates its families. A friend of mine lived in a joint family in a palatial house. Rich, educated folk. I remember we were nine year old girls, hanging out at her house, playing with Barbie dolls. Her younger male cousins barged in and started creating a ruckus. We shooed them away, treating them as a nuisance but they had a stunning response up their sleeve. These boys brought their GI Joe figurines and said �hum tumhare Barbies ka rape karenge�. We were stunned. These were six or seven year old boys. They probably didn�t even know what rape was. They didn�t even know how it was done. But they knew it can be used to teach women a lesson. They must�ve heard their fathers and uncles talk about putting women in their place. �Zyaada bak bak karegi toh uska rape kar denge.� This is also why I find casual remarks or jokes about rape extremely unfunny.

This dehumanization of being, steady erosion of self-respect, the constant looking over your shoulder no matter where you are, is what makes Delhi such a horrible place for women. There are some well-reasoned arguments why we shouldn�t trivialize the larger issues surrounding rape by laying blame at the doorstep of one city alone, but there�s a reason for this insidious association; it breeds and lives on the fear that power creates. Let�s just call Delhi the capital of subjugation. I also need to mention that I�ve never felt this CONSTANTLY afraid in any other city in India. You can quote examples of rapes in Mumbai, Kolkata, or other cities and you�d have a point. This pathetic patriarchal culture pervades India, but there�s no other place quite like Delhi where patriarchy and power mingle to create a sense of male entitlement.

I saw pictures of these young girls standing their ground getting beaten up, screaming in the cops� faces. Learned pundits question why. What is the point of this protest anyway? What do they want? It�s a pity they can�t even see this basic point. They want to be treated as humans again. I read about the rape in Delhi and the anger in me has refused to go away. Memories of those years of harassment came flooding back. If you�re a woman in Delhi, you�ve been groped and violated five times a day since you were eight. Since you were too young to even know what breasts are and what they can do to men. My years in Delhi exacted a heavy price from me. I�d instinctively step back when a man entered my personal space. This instinct finally started ebbing away after I moved to Pune. Even there, I�d instantly be on my guard, alert and tense, when a man looked over my shoulder as I worked on the laptop. This was because of Delhi and it took years for it to go away.

When you�d get molested for the first time you�d come back tearfully to tell your mother or the other grown women in your family. �Kya karein beta, aisa hi hota hai�. What can you do, this is how it is. That crushing realization as an eight year old girl that you�re somehow going to have to deal with this for the rest of your life. Groped by the domestic help, groped by the boy who delivers the groceries, groped by your uncle. Never being able to step out unless you have a �man� accompanying you. Men, who deal with the status quo without changing it. Men, who ironically feel a greater sense of entitlement by being the �protectors� of their women. This feeling is what that girl in the protest is screaming against.

I�m still angry when I see those pictures because I haven�t moved on. I�m angrier when I read men lamenting about what ails us. Here�s a reality check: if you�re a man, you don�t know what you�re talking about. You have NO IDEA what it�s like to live a life that doesn�t belong to you. I understand your sympathy but have no use for it.

I�m angrier when I read scholarly articles about civil society, better governance and societal and infrastructural reforms. I read words like five years and �long term� and seethe. Of course one wants to live in a civil society that believes in redemption and the rehabilitation of its worst members but you have no bloody idea what you�re dealing with in Delhi. These are men who operate on an animal instinct. You need a brutal deterrent, employed continuously and consistently in the short term to let them know we mean business. When you�re cornered by a wolf snarling and baring its fangs do you lecture it on the sanctity of life? No, you react. If I could come face to face with these brave men of Delhi who tormented me, I�d shoot them between the eyes. Even today, if a man stares at me a moment longer than necessary I have this visceral urge to rip his eyes out.

So screw you and your calls for long term change. Don�t waste my time talking about the next five years. Tell me what you�re going to do in the next five hours when your mother, sister or wife leaves the safety of her home and wades into the filthy muck of the city, telling herself that there�s a distinct possibility she may not come home unviolated or even alive.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:42 am (PST) . Posted by:

"" njraj2008

Dear Karmayogis,

Now it is difficult to switch to Tata Power from Reliance due to stricture
of MERC. It is a question mark whether MERC as a regulator working for
consumer interest or corporate interest. Afterall consumer lot a choice to
select power suppliers.

Now I appeal to consumer representatives to take up this issue with state
govt. as well as MERC and other fora  in the interest of large consumers.
Still Reliance Energy monopolised power supply in suburban region which is

Please also note that recently Reliance Energy hiked about 20% rate in
overall charges and we are getting higher bills. There seems to be no
protect and media failed to highlight this issue.

We have no other choice left now.

Thanks and regards


Below are the text received from Tata Power.

Dear Sir,
Greetings from Tata Power!
This is in response to your email dated 22-12-2012 regarding changeover of electricity supply to Tata Power.
Please be informed that Changeover Application Forms are available at our Customer Relations Centre (list attached). Changeover application forms available on the website is only for reference purpose as the forms available at the Customer Relations Centre are serial numbered and the guidelines for changeover are also explained in details.
Please note that as per MERC Order Dated 22nd August 2012; Changeover will be allowed from R-Infra-D to TPC-D only for the residential category of consumers with a monthly consumption of 0 to 300 units.
Hope the above clarifies.
Your Reference Number for the same is 8000081524
In case of any further assistance, you may please write to us at or call us at our 24x7 Toll Free Helpline: 1-800-209-5161.
You may please also visit our website
Assuring you of our best services, always
Thanking you
The Tata Power Company Limited
Help Save trees by registering for e-bill and get your bills in your inbox instead of the regular hard copies. Register for your e-bill copy at

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:42 am (PST) . Posted by:


On 24-Dec-2012, at 4:35 PM, Meena Garg <> wrote:

Sir ,
My Name is Meena Garg.I have done B.Ed-2010-2011 from Deen Dayal Upadhayay Management College,17 Mall Road, Meerut Cantt , Meerut( I.I.M.T Group of Colleges, Meerut)(Recognition or Approved from NCTE & Affiliated from C.C.S University ,Meerut)
During N.A.A.C Inspection , B.Ed College told that your Total College fees is Rs 30359 but College Collected Rs 68273 as Total College fees with exam fees due to honorable Lucknow court Order(Writ Petition No.7025 (M/B) of 2010,8949(M/B) of 2008 & 7905(M/B) of 2008). According to C.C.S Universtiy ,Meerut,All B.Ed Colleges should take Govt decided fees only which is Rs 30359 for 2010-2011 .Fees Structure is not available in the prospectus. I want to know that total college fees Rs 68273 for 2010-2011 is valid or invalid. I am showing complete detail which is as follows.
I have attached court copy & fees related copy . Detail of fees deposit is as follows
At the time of Lucknow Councelling dt on 27.08.2010 - Rs 30359 receipt
Prospectus Rs 800 no receipt
Scout Fees Rs 500 no receipt
Lesson Plan Diary Rs 300 receipt
Extra fees as per Court order Rs 32361 receipt
Exam fees of C.C.S University, Meerut Rs 3803 receipt
Provisional Fees- Rs 100 no receipt
Character Certificate RS 50 no receipt
Total fees Paid Rs 68273
Total fees Rs 68273
Sir , Please check that Additional fees which have been taken by college Is valid or invalid according to court order which I have attached & all documents also.B.ed College has not provided the fees structure & fees structure is also not available in prospectus . I therefore request you to help me If Additional fees is invalid. Please say to B,ed College to refund this Additional fees .
Thanks & Regards
Meena Garg(2010-2011)
Mob.No.- 9897411808


Karmayog = Making God�s world a better place to live!

All 83500+ past messages can be read in

Karmayog is a unique free platform since June 2004 for concerned citizens - for social causes in India and civic issues in Mumbai.

Your participation & support is critical to improve your locality and city. Do spark discussions in this 64300+ member group via It gives clarity to many.

When replying to messages, please do so directly to the concerned person unless it�s relevant for the group. Do remove irrelevant parts of original emails.

All views are of the person / organisation mentioned in the email even if posted by Karmayog. Karmayog is not liable for any content or misrepresentation. Please do your own due diligence.

Karmayog�s 100000+ pages include:

For Citizens:
- 20000+ NGOs Directory by cause, location & rating
- resource sections & forums on 350+ social & civic issues
- CSR ratings of 500 cos
- emergency contacts & of government
- free blogs for articles, photos, etc.
- forms to volunteer & to offer services, materials, money
- forms for complaints & suggestions to Government
- carefully selected "Nonprofit-of-the-Month"

For NGOs & Citizen Groups:
- free websections & templates to display profiles, events & job vacancies & to ask for volunteers, materials, services & funds
- 3000+ volunteers, service providers, donors

Karmayog is Convenor of the NGO Council, which has an MoU with BMC to collaborate on civic issues. The MCGM Solid Waste Rules 2006 w.e.f. 1st March 2006 and The Charter for the MCGM - Local Area Citizen Group Partnership 2006 w.e.f. 1st April 2006 are a result of this MoU.

It also partnered with the Anti-Corruption Bureau via "Mumbai - Pact Against Corruption".

Karmayog has full/part-time openings for jobs / volunteers at junior / senior levels for software, net research, event organising, co-ordination & follow-up.

Vinay Somani, Fort,Mumbai