Wednesday, October 31, 2012

[gita-talk] Re: Question Pertaining to Bhagavad Gita shloka 8/16

 

In the comment after Gita Prabodhani 8-16, Swamijee says,''
Therefore after attaining God, one is not subject to return to the abode of
sorrow-- the world."

Does it mean till one is in this world of sorrow, God is not attained?

Humbly,

Saadhaka

---------------------------------------------------------

To All Sadhaks contributing here, humble submission is :
Swamijee's statement, "Paramaatmaa apraapt kaise?" needs no supplementary support or explanation and it stands true in all conditions whether we identify ourselves with body or not, whether we live in this world or that world.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

--------------------------------------------------------

Saadhaka couldn't understand the word REBIRTH here. Physical body is perishable hence it can't take any rebirth. Self is NOT maranadharmaa so it also can't die or take birth.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

------------------------------------------------------

Gita has clear stated that this world has both sukh (happiness) and dukh
(sorrows). Both are not part of us but are part of nature (prakritti).
Therefore, self is always equanimous to dualities of sukh and dukh. Due to
illusion, self assumes identify with body and therefore, it appears that it
experiences sukh and dukh.

From the perspective of SAT (real), this world has neither sukh or dukh. They
don't exist. What does not exist in the beginning and end also does not exist in
the middle. The appearance in the middle is illusory or assumed.

From the perspective of ASAT (unreal), one gives reality to dualities of sukh
and dukh. Then, it appears that this world is full of both. From this
perspective, the world has both sukh and dukh. Depressed people see glass as
half empty instead of half full. Therefore, such people see world as full of
sorrows only even though the world has both. Both happiness and distress are
like summer and winter season, they come and go. They don't stay.

Another way to answer this question is that God is always attained and one is
never in the world of sorrow. This appearance is illusory.

At His feet in service,
G B

-------------------------------------------------

Translations can be confusing. The World here means Indian (Sansrit) word -
Worldly or the World of sensual pleasures and pains. When live in worldy
attachment - when through Yoga and God's will, we attain and live in Godly World
of detachment, we would not return to the Worldy world of attachment to sensual
pleasures and pain. So while physically we will remain in this Earth/ Physical
World, our existence will shift from the World of personal sensualpleasure and
pains to the existence of Unity with God with complete detachment from and
unoerturbed by the events of the physical world. So one can very well be live in
the physical earth/ world but with complete detachment, ego-less anmd
unperturbed by events.
Basudeb Sen

--------------------------------------

Shree Hari

Dear Sadhaka Ram Ram!

What is said in Verse 8/16-- as long as we remain of the world, meaning that
as long as we continue to have even the least bit of attachment to enjoyment of
pleasures and prosperity of the world, God cannot be attained.

But on the other hand, while living in the world if we no longer have attachment
to the sense of me and mine and do not have any desire--
('what I want should happen' and 'what I do not want should not happen') for the
objects, persons, situations or circumstances of the world, we most certainly
can attain God. Simply it means our staying in this world is not an issue
whether we can attain God or not.

It is a Divine grace only that we have been granted the rare gift of human birth
in this world. The only worth goal of having human birth is to attain God in
this very life while living a normal life of joyfully discharging our duties
with a dispassionate mind.

Ram Ram

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura

----------------------------------------------------------

Fellow learners,
I have not read the commentary by the reverred Svaami. But if he did say what is mentioned here, he is absolutely right. It is our deficiency that we do not understand what he meant by "attaining God" - which perhaps is a translation of "maaM upEtyu". Perhaps, attainment of God is not the best translation of UpEtyu. attainment has extremely physical and materialistic intonation. "I attained the 1st rank; or a ministerial position." Here the attainment is thru personal effort and aided by an external agency and is thru material means. Further, what is attained thru this effort is extremely short lived. It fades away or transforms into punishment or unhappiness in time. you climb to the top of Everest; you cannot stay there for ever, you have to come back. Material attainments are like that.
On the otherhand, Upetya is not grabbing something or going somewhere. Infact it is bringing something into your atma, Buddhi and Mana. When these three are in a straight line (syzygy) that line or axis is called PUMDAREEKA. That pumdareeka, and that alone, can see Paramaatma and ITs tattva in its true state. That culmination of Atma, Buddhi and Mana is the UpEtya. God perhaps is meant to represent Parama atma and Its tattva.
reaching or attaining the top of everest necessiates return to base, because Oxygen supply is soon finished. similarly, A Brhma Buvana and othe rmundane targets necessiate return to martya lOka to resuscitate oxygen-like necessities of body.n when the syzygy is attained and paramaatma tattva is in sight, body is forgotten, its needs become routine matters that do not deserve much attention sO there is no necessity of filling up gas or petrOl into the body. Punah aavarti or punarjanma is unnecessary.
krishna

----------------------------------------------------------

8-16

ābrahmabhuvanāllokāḥ punarāvartino'rjuna
māmupetya tu kaunteya punarjanma na vidyate

Meaning
All higher worlds from the abode of Brahmā downwards are by nature subject
to rebirth; but on attaining Me, O son of Kuntī (Arjuna), there is no
rebirth. 16

Comment
The rebirth happens only due to the attachment to enjoyment of pleasures and
prosperity. Therefore, one who is attached to enjoyment of pleasures and
prosperity, supposing is able to reach the abode of Brahma as a result of
performing meritorious deeds, even then he is subject to come back to the
world, the abode of pain, thus he resumes the cycle of birth and death once
again.

Reaching to all higher worlds (Lokas) up to the abode of Brahmā, is the
fruit of actions. As we know, every action has a beginning and an end then how
can the fruit of these actions be everlasting? But attaining God is not a fruit
of any action. Therefore after attaining God, one is not subject to return to
the abode of sorrow -- the world.

From Gita Prabodhani in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji

----------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------

ENGLISH WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
HINDI WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.org
HINDI BLOG: www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
To receive daily spiritual message,
Subscribe: sadhaka-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (daily spiritual message)
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (for Gita discussion)
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)
Recent Activity:
All past 4925+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

28,000+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
.

__,_._,___

[gita-talk] Re: HELP related to Pranayam and Nightmares

 

Param Pujaya Swamiji, please help, after 20 years of practice , I have come to a
stage with my Yoga and Pranayam , particularly long Purik and Khumbhak in
Anolom Vilom , doing some of the advance asana where I have recurring nightmares
of getting stuck in confined spaces, like in a small hole in the wall , between
two wails, on a very low ceiling etc.. My soul goes into torment and I have to
stop the practice for some time , until I stop having these nightmares.

Please Help and Guide me as to what to do.

Jagdish

----------------------------------------------------------

It is great that Jagdishjii has been practising Yoga and pranayam over 20 years. Here some of my thoughts :
1. During pranayam, exhalation (rechak) should always be longer (preferred ratio 1:2) as compared to inhalation (purak).
2. Holding the breath (kumbhak) should be made automatic (sahaj or keval kumbhak). Forceful or effortful kumbhak for a specified time could cause more harm than good.
3. Do Bhramari pranayam 9 or 18 rounds. This calms down the nerves and entire nervous system.
4. After all the yogasanas, do deep relaxation which should take about 5 to 7 minutes and then the pranayams.
5. Regarding the nightmares, I do not think it has any thing to do with yoga practices. Primary cause is the citta vrittis sitting deep at the unconscious level of the mind. Yoga practices especially meditation helps reduce and remove those.
6. Secondary reason could be the excited nerves causing uneven flow of nerve currents. Bhramari pranayam and deep relaxation should help this.
Thanks
Mahaveer

----------------------------------------------------

Do not be supersticious.
Best regards,

Arun Saxena

----------------------------------------------

Dear Jagdesh Ji,

My Pranaams. The most important lesson we are taught when learning Yoga is to
not force or over do anything whether it is asanas or pranayama. Have been
practising Yoga for more than 20 years and have never had the problem of
nightmares/claustrophobia. It may be something else that is causing this
feeling. Yoga and Pranayama have saved me when I was experiencing tremendous
emotional and physical trauma. Please consult with a bonafide Guru Ji and seek
the solution as to why you are experiencing this. Swami Ji has given some
wonderful guides too. Am praying that you feel better asap.
Regards,
Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

------------------------------------------------

You seem to be forcing things. Take every activity easily. Mother Nature will do
the rest (guidance coming from within).
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Jagdish,

Your medical practice, your yoga and your asnas
are all physical while you have been thinking "wildly" all
along and that is why you are having nightmares.
Your nightmares are coming from your sub-conscious
mind which is taking all your thoughts as they come in and
some "karmic math" is performed on them to give
you nightmares.

You will have to start to think positive and your self-
talk needs to go positive. These things can take decades
to accomplish while you can "throw away your thoughts"
in about 6-months-passion. Then you can pray in your
thinking. Slowly, your nightmares will convert to nice dreams.
Check out "Throw Away Your Thoughts & Change Your
Life" (a light blue cover book) in your stores or amazon.com.
A copyright method is attached in this book to help get
there.

Good Luck!
Notesh Otes

-----------------------------------------------------

dear jagdish
we just suffer just because of our past and action and misdeed, in these 20
years of physical practice has not helped, doing asana, pranayama, etc, are just
physical, you should forget body level of consciousness adn strat practicing
mind level exercise, read, ramayana, geeta, mahabharat, listen to devotional
music on your lap top, keep a busy day, get up daily at 5.00 am after ablution,
do pratha smarami hrudi sum spuradatma tatavam.... you will get this prayer from
ramakrishna math, then yam braham varunendra... dhyna shloka of geeta, chant 10
shlokas of geeta daily with meaning, then chant 1000 names of vishnu called
vishnu sahasranama from you tube, do littel pranayama, asana, meditation, dont
put too much stress and strain on the body and mind, our machine is like any
other man invented machine, if more load is given it will break down, moderation
in everything, then break fast at 8.00 time management is very important, work,
food at 12.00 pm or 1.00 not later than that, work, evening black tea with out
milk at 4.00 pm with two biscuits only, work, little rest, food at 8.00 om not
later then study, go to bed, before that take half a cup of milk half apple if
you can afford go to bed at 10.00 try this for 3 months you will feel wonderful
and you will be happy ....my dear jagdish... grief is the gift of god... the
more we suffer ...we will become perfect and be happy

god bless you

swami krishnananda

---------------------------------------------------

I am curious why you think that Pranayama's are causing nightmares. Can they be
caused by something else?

I love Ram Raksha Strotra. I will suggest that you chant Ram Raksha Strotra
understanding the meaning of each mantra. Try it for a month. It is important to
meditate on meaning of each sloka of these prayers.

I am sure that your nightmares will go away. Even if they don't go away, I am
sure that you will be protected by Lord Ram and these nightmares won't harm you.

I will be interested to know the effect of this practice if you do it. Please
let me know your results in case you do it.

At His feet in service,
G B

----------------------------------------------------

Dear Jagdish,
Allow me to suggest that you please read the famous book "The Awakening of the Kundalini", by Pt. Gopi Krishna..of Srinagar,and the founder of the Kundalini Research Foundation,and recognised by Max Planck himself, which describes first hand, exactly what he experienced,(and one can expect to experience,when one's Kundalini is aroused and begins it's ascent through the spinal chord...erc.,)
This is the stage when you need a Guru who himself is an adept and a realised soul,and who can diagnose whether the Kundalini is going up the right path,through the Sushumna Nadi or not as otherwise, you could be facing grave danger of either going stark raving mad,or suffer from an undiagnosable illness...if it is going up the Pingala or Ida Nadi respectively...
Kindly heed my advice,to prevent serious damage to yourself,if you are experiencing the symptoms of the arousal of your Kundalini...which only an adept Guru can distinguish/diagnose and treat... !
With the very best wishes,
Yogesh Lajmi.
GOOD LUCK !

----------------------------------------------------

HINDI WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.org
ENGLISH WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
HINDI BLOG: www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
To receive daily spiritual message,
Subscribe: sadhaka-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (daily spiritual message)
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (for Gita discussion)
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (4)
Recent Activity:
All past 4925+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

28,000+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
.

__,_._,___

Tuesday, October 30, 2012

[gita-talk] Re: I am Not the Body, then Why Pain and Suffering?

 

Shree Hari Ram RAm
This brings closure to this topic. Thank you all.
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------------------------

Without beating about the bush :

When anybody (who was once born or who started using a body) is said to have died, what happens (everyone alive now must have noticed well)? The body continues to be seen by all alive BUT the person is said to have died (have departed from this world). Is not this very simple event a fool
proof evidence that we aren't the body? Simply, when identification with body ceases, body is seen as we see other things (which we NEVER say that we are those things).
Humbly,
Saadhaka

----------------------------------------------------------

Few beautiful messages. I would like to reiterate --

B Vempaty >> The world is neither all beautiful and all ugly. It is what it IS. Accept it "AS IT IS"and continue the journey and make your day happy as great saints said time and again.

As Vempatyji states, accepting world as it is is very important. There is no need to change it. So, there is no need to change the pain.

Sadhna >> This understanding and becoming observer help us realize the truth Swamiji talking about.

What to do if we don't change the pain! As Sadhnaji mentions, be the observer. You are seer and the pain is seen. So, observe it and let it go. Don't hold on to it. Be in the present moment.

Y V Chawla >> There is no separateness to reject it, to label it. No expression of life, whether painful or pleasurable can stay or stick.

This is also very important point. The teaching that self is not part of this world does NOT mean that we reject the world or label it. There is no judgment of the world as good or bad. It is just an acceptance of true reality (vastavikta) and letting go of pain or pleasure as they never stay.

At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------------

RAM RAM JI,

SWAMIJI AGAIN AND AGAIN GAVE EMPHASIS ON THAT WE ACCEPT THAT WE ARE NOT BODY WE
ARE ATMA.

DESPITE I AM FAILED TO REALIZE THAT I AM NOT BODY. MY PROBLEM IS THAT IF THERE
IS ANY INJURY ON THE BODY I FEEL PAIN, IF IAM NOT BODY, WHY THERE IS SUFFERING.
I HAVE MENTALLY RETARDED PERSON, WHOSE WHOLE BODY DWINDLE, DESPITE THERE IS
ALMIGHTY GOD PRESENCE IN THE BODY.

PLEASE CLEAR IT,

WITH WARM REGARDS

SURESH GOEL

--------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,
Very difficult concept to explain, because one needs deep spiritual practices to
realize " who am I"?
Contemplating on following questions help us realize that "I am not body"-
Am I body or I have a body ?
Am I pain or I feel pain ?
Do I become less if I loose any of my body part ?

I have a house , that doesn't mean I am the house. Same way I have a body, that
does not mean I am the body. Physical pain is built in safety mechanism of our
body, which encourages us to take care of our body. Going beyond psychological
pain is rather easy. To get rid of physical pain needs rigorous practices.

We must do whatever need to be done to keep our body fit without attachments,
but we must also know that body is like a rented house, and we have to leave it
one day, no matter what. Body is transient while the one who accepted it for
some reasons is eternal....

This understanding and becoming observer help us realize the truth Swamiji
talking about.

With prayers and good wishes,
Sadhna

--------------------------------------------------------

Dear sir
Please answer his question rather than beating around the bush. Firstly Prakriti
is part of Bhraman on. an Aduate philosophy therefore why seperate the two
Awtar kaul

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Goelji:
Pain is ultimately is experinced in the mind and makes us feel it is mine. It
is this identification that is the root cause of all our problems. We cannot
escape from the physical facts but we can reduce the pain by taking the mind
away from it. One can do a simple experiment to know what I am saying. If the
same pain we are experiencing in the midst of some conversation or other
activity that thrills our mind do not you feel the pain is felt less than when
we are alone and brooding over the pain all the time. This is what is meant by
accepting and paying no attention or take the mind away from it.

Let us take another simple example: we went to the doctor on whom we have lot a
faith. He gave a pill for the pain and said it will go away in a day and do not
worry. After an hour we do feel the pain is less and we know more
psychological as it takes time for the pill to work and give reusults if any.
If we enlarge this idea, we can say have fath in God and dwell in his glory all
the time we will feel the pain as the mind is occupied by a better activity.

All the respondents so far gave us the idea of God, matter and individual self
and how to disassociate our pain and physical body from the soul etc. The body
and matter changes are inevitable. WE can make our life better by negating I am
not the body but only a care taker of it. I will do my best today and leave
the result to the Almighty. This attitude practiced by great souls like Ramana
Maharshi stated by others make them experience the pain much less than us. In
otherwords, it boils down to the activities of the mind psychology how we face
this world. The world is neither all beautiful and all ugly. It is what it IS.
Accept it "AS IT IS"and continue the journey and make your day happy as great
saints said time and again.

B Vempaty

----------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhak,
Sour soul rests within the body.If the body is
sick then we feel pain and suffering.In the modern world we have to
tske care of the body If the body is healthy then our dsoul feels
happy.Maya is found evvery where.Human beings ought to have love and
compassion for us and all creations of God
what God EXPECTS IS THAT IN SPITE OF ALL PLEASURES OF LIFE HUMAN
BEINGS SHOULD REMEMBER GOD AND AT THAT TIME PRAYERS ARE TO BE
OFFERED.THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE

REMEMBER ALMIGHTY GOD
OFFER PRAYERS TO HIM
SURRENDER TO GOD
DEVOTION AND BHAKTI TO GOD
PRAY FOR ANY MISTAKES IN LIFE
THIS IS THE WAY TO BE WITH GOD AND ACHIVE BLESSSINGS FROM HIM
MY GOOD WISHES TO ALL

TRULY YOURS

SHANKERPRASAD S BHATT M.COM'
WRITER BOOK REVIEWER
SOCIAL WORKER
-----------------------------------------------------

At the moment of pain, pain (any uneasiness) is the actuality, upsetting is the
actuality. There is no separateness to reject it, to label it. Every
experiencing is complete in itself. There is no thought to escape the uneasiness
of the moment. The ground of oneness is realised.

Mind comes under the illusion as if pleasure is the ground.
Brain is bound by the momentum. No expression of life, whether painful or
pleasurable can stay or stick. One desires only stable psychological comfort
‘by escaping uneasiness and uncertainty’, which the brain is experiencing.
One hopes to make this comfort stable, keeps on (illusory) fighting with
uneasiness and uncertainty until the hope is shattered. The shattering of this
hope is one’s attunement to supreme relaxation-the self-sustained ground.

Y V Chawla

-------------------------------------------------------

read ramcharitmanas pl. for the short and clear answer
Ashok Gupta

-------------------------------------------------------

Dear all,
this is rather a very tricky question to answer. But, on practicing meditation
in some intensive way, one can gradually become void both in mind and body, for
at least short duration at the beginning, which intensifies in course of more
and more practice. Ultimately leading to undertake open abdominal surgery
without making unconscious or even applying anesthesia.

Barin Chatterjee

------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaka,

We should accept "vastavikta" or reality. Vastavikta or reality is self is
always in equanimity because self transcends matter or prakritti. So, matter
cannot touch or affect self.

That is what is mean by being equanimous. It mean to accept the reality of MINE
(Krishna, SAT) and not MINE (matter, body).
It does not mean to make supernatural changes to body so that body does
experience pain or taste. Pain is reaction of nervous system and this pain is
caused by matter and it is in matter.
Similarly, taste is biological reaction of taste buds and it is created by
matter and it is in matter.
All these biological activities are the interactions of the three mode of nature
(gunas) and self is completely beyond them.
So, self is always in equnamity and when we accept this truth, we automatically
become equanimous.

If one artificially try to imitate equanimity, then it may appear that one is
equanimous but that is just pretension.
The true equanimity comes from acceptance (later realization) of self as the
part of Krishna and not part of this world.

Equanimity means to see the pain in the prakritti and to accept oneself beyond
prakritti and therefore, it means to not react to it.
For person like me it means to let it go or ignore it or tolerate it with higher
acceptance that it is not permanent and therefore, not important.

At His feet in service,
G B
----------------------------------------------------------

dears all so far your body consciousness is there till then you are body. it is
a fact you can not escape this reality just by saying that you are not body. To
experiences the joy of loosing body consciousness is some thing divine and needs
lot of sadhana. According to me, it is only when you have done away with body
consciousness that you will experience no pain while the body gets hurt. or even
the joy will not effect you,you will out grow this duality. this is state of
sitithipragya, as mentioned in Bhagavat Geeta.with love ckkaul

--------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaka,

I agree. As you have said, self is not part of prakritti and it is part of God.

This is truth whether we accept it or not. As we are in illusion, we don't see
or realize this truth.
So, Swamiji's process is of acceptance. Once you accept it, you will realize /
see it.

Sureshji, on the other hand wants to realize the truth and it is not clear
whether he accepts this truth.
If you accept it, then there is no need to ask this question.

At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------

Respected G.B.
A person is equanimous to any experience only. Without experiencing a taste, how
can a person be said to be equanimous to it? Kindly explain further.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

----------------------------------------------------

At the moment of pain, pain (any uneasiness) is the actuality, upsetting is the
actuality. There is no separateness to reject it, to label it. Every
experiencing is complete in itself. There is no thought to escape the uneasiness
of the moment. The ground of oneness is realised.

Mind comes under the illusion as if pleasure is the ground.
Brain is bound by the momentum. No expression of life, whether painful or
pleasurable can stay or stick. One desires only stable psychological comfort
‘by escaping uneasiness and uncertainty, which the brain is experiencing. One
hopes to make this comfort stable, keeps on (illusory) fighting with uneasiness
and uncertainty until the hope is shattered. The shattering of this hope is
one's attunement to supreme relaxation-the self-sustained ground.

Y V Chawla

---------------------------------------------

shree hari ram ram

If there is pain, so let it be, I have nothing to do with that pain and
suffering. That is it ! I am "Ishvar Ansh" (part of God), I am "avinashi"
(eternal, imperishable), I am "chetan" (sentient) , I am "amal" (pure) and I
am "sahaj sukh raashi" (bliss absolute). Nothing can affect me. Meera Das,
Ram Ram

----------------------------------------------

Respected G.B.
Whether one (I or you) accepts or doesn't accept, everyone is Gods only. [ham
bhagawaanke hain - yah sachchee baat hai. Swameejee says].
Humbly,
Saadhaka

--------------------------------------------------

I would like to clarify that you can stop feeling pain but that won't make you
advanced.
For example, doctors can give you anesthesia for you not to experience pain of
surgery. Will that make you advanced?
A person in coma does not experience any pain. Does that mean this person is
advanced?
Some people try to control tongue. You taste buds can be destroyed so that you
don't feel any taste. You will be equanimous to taste. Does not make you
advanced?

What makes you advanced is to accept that these changes are in matter
(prakritti) and you are beyond it.
I experience pain / pleasure. I experience the taste of food. I experience the
sense of touch, smell, beauty etc.
Among st all these experiences, I remain same and I am beyond them.
One way is to accept them as the manifestation of Bhagawaan (bhakti - vasudeva
sarvam) and another way is to accept that they are not in me (jnana).
In either way, don't give importance to them and be happy in whatever situation
you are in.

Yes, the story of Ramana Maharshi sounds fascinating. I used to hear these kinds
of stories with awe and reverence.
But after reading Swami Ramsukhdasji books, I am more focused on ACCEPTANCE.
Swamiji's process is ACCEPTING -> KNOWING -> REALIZING.

I do my part of accepting. Knowing and realizing are in Bhagawaan's hand.
So, do you part and leave the rest to Bhagawaan.

At His feet in service,
G B

----------------------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

A good point indeed, do these chase good souls feel pain, I think they do.
Maybe they learn a lesson that will be of value.
So let us be humble to powers of God.
So many declare there truth, for me I remain humble.

Om Shanti
Mike Keenor
---------------------------------------

JayRam!

Our hair and nails are part of your body. But when, we cut the nails
or hair, why there is no pain and why we do not cry? Because the flow
of blood is not there. In other words the sensational cells which is
controlled by brain is not present there unlike other parts of body.
Due to the deep attachment with the sensations in the body we suffer
when we injured and similarly we enjoy something pleasant happens to
us. Like a sugar candy comes in contact with your tongue, your brain
immediately cognize this as pleasant and similarly a neem leaf juice
(which is bitter) is comes to contact it immediately cognize that as
unpleasant.

This reaction of our mind (physically brain) is called worldly
attachment. As we keep on train it to give neutral value of both sweet
and bitterness of external objects, the cognition of the mind will die
and it will not react to any such pains or pleasure.

Good example is Sri Ramana Maharishi had a cancer surgery and he said
to doctor do give me any kind of pain killer. Because I have no
reaction to the pain you are going create by the surgery. Doctors got
surprised. He was reading a book in one hand and on his other side the
surgery was going on.

So, when we attain this highest stage we will understand that we are
way apart from body.

This is what lord Buddha also found to attain enlightenment. Stop
reacting to the external objects. Then automatically the old samskaras
will be dissolved and you will reach the ultimate goal. This is what
lord Krishna also explains in Gita in many versus

Hari Bol!!!

Anandan Sivasankaran

----------------------------------------

Sureshjee! Please quote (name of book with page number) when and where Swameejee
gave emphasis on that we are Atma?
Humbly,
Saadhaka

--------------------------------------------------------

I used to have similar problem before understanding Swami Ramsukhdasji
teachings.
Basically, I wanted some to magic to happen to show me that I have advanced.
In this case, you want yourself to stop feeling pain and suffering and
experience blissful nature of ATMA.

After reading Swami Ramsukhdasji, I have stop insisting on any change in matter.
Materially, I am in the same situation or I might be even worse.
What I know now is that material situations don't matter.
Whether body experiences pain or not, I will always remain ATMA.

I am not this body and matter - I have to accept this fact.
It is on Bhagawaan to give me realization. I have control over acceptance.
I accept these facts. Not much has changed since acceptance.
I eat same food. I feel same pain. My body / mind / sense organs experience this
world the same way.
Still, I am more happy / peaceful. I have learned to let go and ignore matter as
matter keeps on changing.

Whatever I am, I am Bhagawaan's. I will always remain Bhagawaan's.

At His feet in service,
G B
--------------------------------------------

you should see ramcharitmanas, aranya kand for this reply.

Ashok Gupta

------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Because Athuman in body the pain is there.
B.S

--------------------------------------------

Although I am not body, I am inside the body and becuase of Maya, I identify
with the body.
Daivi Esha Gunamayi, Mama Maya Duratyaya, Mam Eva ye Prapdyanti, Mayam Etam
Taranti te.14/7. When we know the art of surrendering to divine will, we will
acceptt pain gracefully and pain will turn to inconvenience. In one life time,
pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. If you observe pain in detached
manner, and that is the central tone of Geeta, you will see the beneficial
effect of pain.Pain anywhere in the body is becuase of Dehatma - Budhhi. It is a
product of negative energy and is to be got rid of by detached observation or
treating it as grace of God; this will take us to surrender to the will of God.
Atma only knows about the pain; but ego experiences pain and reacts to it and in
the process produces more pain. Those who surrender to God do not experience
misery accompanied with pain. In the end, 'Matra Sparshaha to Kaunteya, Sheeet
Ushna Sukh Dukh Daha. Agamapayinaha, Anityaaha, Tam Titiksshaswa Bharat. 14/2.
Meditate on this verse and the next one 'Yam hi na Vyathayanti Ete, Purusham
Purusharsbha, Sama
Dukhha Sukham Dhiram, Saha Amrutatvaya Kalpate 15/2.
More you study Geeta correctly, more efficientt you will become in observing
pain in detached manner; then as pointed outt earlier, pain will lose its
strength and reduce to inconvenience.
Jayantilal Shah

--------------------------------------------
fELLOW LEARNERS,

If one has really come to the conclusion that he or she is not the body, but
atma, then naturally or logically the pain belongs and affects body and not
the"he or she" One feels the pain as that person still suffers the delusion of
identifying body and atma.

Caring for the body like one cares for the house he is a tenant of is different
from craving for it. the first one is duty and the second one is luxury and
dharma viruddha kaama. It all boils to having convinced of the separateness of
Body and atma, or Prakriti and Purusha. (please ref to ch. 13, 15 of Gita
without being goaded by any)
krishna

-------------------------------------------------------

All physical, mental and emotional pleasures and pains are experienced by live
bodies and minds. But these are essentially transient phenomena that distract
constantly distract the life form (eg. a man or woman) from experiencing the
permanent unchanging existence of Atman, the Self or the real I or Me. Body,
mind etc are not Me or I. But their attachment to experiencing pleasure or pain
(eg, pain due to injury in the leg due to an accidental fall) does not allow the
body and mind to experience the Real Self which is the permanent I. I the idea
is to continously endeavour to detach from what happens to the body and mind and
seek the experience of continous and exclusive presence of the Self. When one is
experiencing the Self alone, no pleasure or pain in the body is experienced.
Very diificult to be concentrated upon the Self in exclusion of everything else.
But logic says that I am beyond all physical, mental and emotional phases of
pleasures and pains. But to reach that State and be in that State is difficult.
The purpose of Yoga is to attain and remain in that State as long as possible.
Basudeb Sen

--------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhaks
Looking at difficulties of mundane existence, was I thinking of only this when I
was born?
Veena

----------------------------------------------------

Dear gita-talk member,

If you are not the body then what are you? May be it is
your karma. Your negative thoughts are bringing you
hard times and pain. You can throw all your physical thoughts
and then pray in your thinking. Slowly, your karma will
improve and your pain will go away in time. I have written
a book "Throw Away Your Thoughts & Change your Life".
This book is available in your book stores and amazon.com

Good Luck!

Bye!
Notesh Otes

---------------------------------------------

When we look at everything in 3 ways (physical, mental & spiritual) we realise
that while we are in human form we have a body & mind (emotions, intellect &
ego). We experience pain & suffering of the body/mind complex at some stage in
life. Largely it's a protective phenomenon for our body/mind's survival (acute
pain) but sometimes it can be unnecessarily chronic. These pain & sufferings
are a physical problem but they come with solution in the form of
physical/mental treatments from your doctors.
Spirituality being higher than these might sometimes help in reducing these
problems. Scientific studies on yoga & meditation have proven that already.
Hope that explains it.
Dr Bhala, a sadhak & pain consultant in UK.
----------------------------------------------------------

Thursday 4th October,2012
Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar.
Modern science has collected valid data on the physical bodies of Life Forms and
Plants on this planet Earth. If we incorporate this scientific confirmable data
in our Spiritual Concepts, we will have a deeper insight into the spiritual
concepts without harming them.I have applied the scientific data to many
spiritual concepts and I was amazed to realise that our Great Thinkers of the
Past (GTPs) were correct in interpreting their observations and experiences with
the Nature around and of the physical bodies of Life Forms.

Now it is fully known that the the Shareer cannot be borned without the genetic
material passed on by the parents. This genetic material will control the
physical as well as mental activities of an individual, throughout its lifespan
till death.
The genetic materal contains, genes, chromosomes and DNA/RNA.

This genetic material has been continuously passed on between several thousand
generations of our ancestors and will be passed
on to several thousand future generations of our progeny, till this Planet
Earth can sustain life.

Now compare Atma and Genetic Material, according to me, they are the
same...identical. Spirituality calls it Atma and Science calls it Genetic
Material.

Gee Waman

--------------------------------------------

dear suresh goel

we have 62 mentally retarded children pl pray for them and send help

snehalaya
SWAMI KRISHNANANDA

-------------------------------------------

i haveahumble suggestiontomakeviewersseeohmygod pictureintheatre
somephilosophyoflife islistedin suchpicture

sanat nanavati
----------------------------------------------------

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)
Recent Activity:
All past 4925+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

28,000+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
.

__,_._,___

[gita-talk] Re: HELP related to Pranayam and Nightmares

 

Param Pujaya Swamiji, please help, after 20 years of practice , I have come to a
stage with my Yoga and Pranayam , particularly long Purik and Khumbhak in
Anolom Vilom , doing some of the advance asana where I have recurring nightmares
of getting stuck in confined spaces, like in a small hole in the wall , between
two wails, on a very low ceiling etc.. My soul goes into torment and I have to
stop the practice for some time , until I stop having these nightmares.

Please Help and Guide me as to what to do.

Jagdish

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Jagdesh Ji,

My Pranaams. The most important lesson we are taught when learning Yoga is to not force or over do anything whether it is asanas or pranayama. Have been practising Yoga for more than 20 years and have never had the problem of nightmares/claustrophobia. It may be something else that is causing this feeling. Yoga and Pranayama have saved me when I was experiencing tremendous emotional and physical trauma. Please consult with a bonafide Guru Ji and seek the solution as to why you are experiencing this. Swami Ji has given some wonderful guides too. Am praying that you feel better asap.
Regards,
Nanda

TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)

------------------------------------------------

You seem to be forcing things. Take every activity easily. Mother Nature will do
the rest (guidance coming from within).
Humbly,
Saadhaka

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Jagdish,

Your medical practice, your yoga and your asnas
are all physical while you have been thinking "wildly" all
along and that is why you are having nightmares.
Your nightmares are coming from your sub-conscious
mind which is taking all your thoughts as they come in and
some "karmic math" is performed on them to give
you nightmares.

You will have to start to think positive and your self-
talk needs to go positive. These things can take decades
to accomplish while you can "throw away your thoughts"
in about 6-months-passion. Then you can pray in your
thinking. Slowly, your nightmares will convert to nice dreams.
Check out "Throw Away Your Thoughts & Change Your
Life" (a light blue cover book) in your stores or amazon.com.
A copyright method is attached in this book to help get
there.

Good Luck!
Notesh Otes

-----------------------------------------------------

dear jagdish
we just suffer just because of our past and action and misdeed, in these 20
years of physical practice has not helped, doing asana, pranayama, etc, are just
physical, you should forget body level of consciousness adn strat practicing
mind level exercise, read, ramayana, geeta, mahabharat, listen to devotional
music on your lap top, keep a busy day, get up daily at 5.00 am after ablution,
do pratha smarami hrudi sum spuradatma tatavam.... you will get this prayer from
ramakrishna math, then yam braham varunendra... dhyna shloka of geeta, chant 10
shlokas of geeta daily with meaning, then chant 1000 names of vishnu called
vishnu sahasranama from you tube, do littel pranayama, asana, meditation, dont
put too much stress and strain on the body and mind, our machine is like any
other man invented machine, if more load is given it will break down, moderation
in everything, then break fast at 8.00 time management is very important, work,
food at 12.00 pm or 1.00 not later than that, work, evening black tea with out
milk at 4.00 pm with two biscuits only, work, little rest, food at 8.00 om not
later then study, go to bed, before that take half a cup of milk half apple if
you can afford go to bed at 10.00 try this for 3 months you will feel wonderful
and you will be happy ....my dear jagdish... grief is the gift of god... the
more we suffer ...we will become perfect and be happy

god bless you

swami krishnananda

---------------------------------------------------

I am curious why you think that Pranayama's are causing nightmares. Can they be
caused by something else?

I love Ram Raksha Strotra. I will suggest that you chant Ram Raksha Strotra
understanding the meaning of each mantra. Try it for a month. It is important to
meditate on meaning of each sloka of these prayers.

I am sure that your nightmares will go away. Even if they don't go away, I am
sure that you will be protected by Lord Ram and these nightmares won't harm you.

I will be interested to know the effect of this practice if you do it. Please
let me know your results in case you do it.

At His feet in service,
G B

----------------------------------------------------

HINDI WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.org
ENGLISH WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
HINDI BLOG: www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
To receive daily spiritual message,
Subscribe: sadhaka-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (daily spiritual message)
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (for Gita discussion)
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (3)
Recent Activity:
All past 4925+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

28,000+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
.

__,_._,___

[gita-talk] Re: Question Pertaining to Bhagavad Gita shloka 8/16

 

In the comment after Gita Prabodhani 8-16, Swamijee says,''
Therefore after attaining God, one is not subject to return to the abode of
sorrow-- the world."

Does it mean till one is in this world of sorrow, God is not attained?

Humbly,

Saadhaka

---------------------------------------------------------

Gita has clear stated that this world has both sukh (happiness) and dukh (sorrows). Both are not part of us but are part of nature (prakritti). Therefore, self is always equanimous to dualities of sukh and dukh. Due to illusion, self assumes identify with body and therefore, it appears that it experiences sukh and dukh.

From the perspective of SAT (real), this world has neither sukh or dukh. They don't exist. What does not exist in the beginning and end also does not exist in the middle. The appearance in the middle is illusory or assumed.

From the perspective of ASAT (unreal), one gives reality to dualities of sukh and dukh. Then, it appears that this world is full of both. From this perspective, the world has both sukh and dukh. Depressed people see glass as half empty instead of half full. Therefore, such people see world as full of sorrows only even though the world has both. Both happiness and distress are like summer and winter season, they come and go. They don't stay.

Another way to answer this question is that God is always attained and one is never in the world of sorrow. This appearance is illusory.

At His feet in service,
G B

-------------------------------------------------

Translations can be confusing. The World here means Indian (Sansrit) word - Worldly or the World of sensual pleasures and pains. When live in worldy attachment - when through Yoga and God's will, we attain and live in Godly World of detachment, we would not return to the Worldy world of attachment to sensual pleasures and pain. So while physically we will remain in this Earth/ Physical World, our existence will shift from the World of personal sensualpleasure and pains to the existence of Unity with God with complete detachment from and unoerturbed by the events of the physical world. So one can very well be live in the physical earth/ world but with complete detachment, ego-less anmd unperturbed by events.
Basudeb Sen

--------------------------------------

Shree Hari

Dear Sadhaka Ram Ram!

What is said in Verse 8/16-- as long as we remain of the world, meaning that as long as we continue to have even the least bit of attachment to enjoyment of pleasures and prosperity of the world, God cannot be attained.

But on the other hand, while living in the world if we no longer have attachment to the sense of me and mine and do not have any desire--
('what I want should happen' and 'what I do not want should not happen') for the objects, persons, situations or circumstances of the world, we most certainly can attain God. Simply it means our staying in this world is not an issue whether we can attain God or not.

It is a Divine grace only that we have been granted the rare gift of human birth in this world. The only worth goal of having human birth is to attain God in this very life while living a normal life of joyfully discharging our duties with a dispassionate mind.

Ram Ram

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura

----------------------------------------------------------

8-16

ābrahmabhuvanāllokāḥ punarāvartino'rjuna
māmupetya tu kaunteya punarjanma na vidyate

Meaning
All higher worlds from the abode of Brahmā downwards are by nature subject
to rebirth; but on attaining Me, O son of Kuntī (Arjuna), there is no
rebirth. 16

Comment
The rebirth happens only due to the attachment to enjoyment of pleasures and
prosperity. Therefore, one who is attached to enjoyment of pleasures and
prosperity, supposing is able to reach the abode of Brahma as a result of
performing meritorious deeds, even then he is subject to come back to the
world, the abode of pain, thus he resumes the cycle of birth and death once
again.

Reaching to all higher worlds (Lokas) up to the abode of Brahmā, is the
fruit of actions. As we know, every action has a beginning and an end then how
can the fruit of these actions be everlasting? But attaining God is not a fruit
of any action. Therefore after attaining God, one is not subject to return to
the abode of sorrow -- the world.

From Gita Prabodhani in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji

----------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------

ENGLISH WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
HINDI WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.org
HINDI BLOG: www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
To receive daily spiritual message,
Subscribe: sadhaka-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (daily spiritual message)
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (for Gita discussion)
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)
Recent Activity:
All past 4925+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

28,000+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
.

__,_._,___

Monday, October 29, 2012

[gita-talk] The Bhagavad Gita - Daily Message - 8-18

 

8-18

 

avyaktādvyaktayaḥ sarvāḥ prabhavantyaharāgame

rātryāgame pralīyante tatraivāvyaktasaṁjñake

 

Meaning


All manifest beings emanate from the Unmanifest (Brahmā's subtle body) at the commencement of Brahmā's day; and at the beginning of his night, they merge in the same, called the unmanifested form. 18



8-17

sahasrayugaparyantamaharyadbrahmaṇo viduḥ

rātriṁ yugasahasrāntāṁ te'horātravido janāḥ

 

Meaning

Those who know that a day of Brahmā lasts a thousand Māhayugas (four­fold Yugas-- a cycle consisting of many many thousands of years) and that his night lasts a thousand Māhayugas, they know the reality about Brahmā's day and night. 17


      


From Gita Prabodhani by Swami Ramsukhdasji

=============================================================


TO PURCHASE GITA PRABODHANI OR ANY BOOKS FROM GITA PRESS (IN USA), VISIT THE ONLINE STORE:
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/market.html

To read Gita Prabodhani in Hindi online, visit - 
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org/swamijibooks/pustak/pustak1/html/geeta_prabodhani_shalok/main.htm

Links to Gita Madhurya AUDIO:
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/audio.html

GITA PATH BY BAJARANGJI SONI 
http://www.shriswamiramsukhdasjimaharaj.com/BajarangjiSoniGeeta.html

The Bhagavadgita - SADHAK SANJIVANI ENGLISH
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html

The Bhagavadgita - Sadhak Sanjivani HINDI AUDIO
http://www.shriswamiramsukhdasjimaharaj.com/ManMohanJiSadhakSanjivinin.html

LINKS TO GITA PAATH and GITA DISCOURSES by various saints
http://www.shriswamiramsukhdasjimaharaj.com/download.html

BHAGAVAD GITA AARTI 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8fhnXvlnjM

Five Gita verses for daily recitation
Gita 4/6-10 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRKYyYt6hJ8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-k_eueSOlM
------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE VIEW YOU TUBE BHAJAN IN SWAMIJI'S VOICE

Other Bhajan

Thank you,  Ram Ram  
--------------------------------------------------
HINDI WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.org
ENGLISH WEBSITE: www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
To receive daily spiritual message,
Subscribe: sadhaka-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (daily spiritual message) 
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (for Gita discussion)
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

__._,_.___
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
Recent Activity:
All past 4925+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

28,000+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
.

__,_._,___