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[gita-talk] Re: why all reincarnations happened in India only ?

 

When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India . At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subcontinent .

Girish

=============================================

Accepting or rejecting (a) Krishna is all in all for this universe, (b) Swarga is Himalaya and Patal is South India, (c) Lanka in Ramayan and Gandhari from Gandhar in Maharashtra and all these were part of Indian Continent, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THE TRUTH (FACTS).
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-----------------------------------------------

Ram..!

India is the country of God. A unique country in its own right. No where else in
the world there is such spiritual fragrance as is in India. Yes, all
incarnations of God take place ONLY in India because God incarnates to
re-establish Dharma. India is the origin country of Dharma and God can come here only to re-establish Dharma.

Raam..!

Sachin

-----------------------------------------------

You are right, Hindus thought of Krishna limited to the the then boundaries of India beyond which they might not have much real knowledge. Yes, Krishna is all in all in the Universe whether this is known to all mankind or not. But Krishna is known by different names in different socities / lands: God whose son was Jesus, Prophet's Allah and so on. Do not get confused by the name: human civilisations across the World in deffirent periods were in search of Thatwhich is all in all in the Universe and the Universe.
Basudeb Sen

----------------------------------------------

Our civilization and some others like egyptian are quite ancient.You can analyse certain prayer practices in different religions and observe some similarity.Many time it makes believe that those prayers are altered forms and devised to convenience of sadhaks Avtars happened or not,we do observe His omnipresence in variety of divine applications.The supreme concept of God as Krishna is full of knowledge about his existence, is felt while we peruse Srimad Bhagwat Gita.His Viraat swaroop speaks to us about the variety of forms He exists and can appear from time to time.Although He cannot be explained by we humble humans yet we do feel Him as and when we meditate with dedication.HE IS THE CAUSE OF ALL THAT HAPPENS AND YET HE IS NOT INVOLVED IN HAPPENNINGS.And in kaliedoscope of these happenings we may observe His myriad forms,views.
subhashtewari

-------------------------------------------------

to girish ji
ref ur ? about y reincarnation is only in india please remember that all religons have different rules beliefs & interpretations 2 help people thru unity of religon ; the object being so that people may bow down to god as that attempts 2 remove the arrogance present in many of us so much so that EVEN THE KING has to bow down to acknowledge the existance & power of god whose blessings he seeks before going into battle.
just as all drops of water form riverluets streams rivers finally enetering the ocean which water evaporates to again form to start the the cycle again which leads us to believe in reincarnation.
however different religons are free to believe in whatever they think & we must not think that hinduism is the most knowledgeable for we have learnt so much in the fields of medicine,science increasinng our food production etc from the western world whose development was was partly due to their religon
your greatese gift of the very fact that you asked ur question was given u by the west because indians never questioned the meaning of AUM or the swastika nor any belief or ritual that the pandits translated to them the meaning from sanskrit
keep it up & question every thing till u r satisfied
henceforth i will call u GIR-ISH the LION
balbir singh
-------------------------------------------------
Punarjanma … Avataara … THE TRUTH …

Matter-energy clusters merge and separate perpetually only for one reason - TO MAINTAIN EQUILLIBRIUM! There is no exception no matter how specific clusters are identified as - soil, water, air, plants, animals, humans, planets, galaxies … Everything is recycled to reform the universal appearance in order to preserve its integral presence AS IS and AS EVER. Humans, having developed extraordinary (and, unnecessary!) affinity to their specific forms, would claim some special existence amongst the rest. But, humans are no more or less than any being or thing in this universe ... all mortal beings, including the humans, are recycled just like all these plants to be re-born in variant forms as dictated by the nature around ... again and again ...

|| Sasyamiva pachyate martyah sasyamivaajaayate punah ||

One who is dictated by the limitations of one's intellect would get fascinated by some particular pairs of such mergers and separations in order to define the span of time and space bound between the two events as "a life". One who dictates one's intellect with such limited perceptions would isolate such a span from the rest to believe as if the span perceived is "the life" the associated entity possessed. ONLY FROM THIS PERSPECTIVE birth and death do mean something. So are their derivatives such as rebirth (Punarjanma) and re-incarnation (Avataara).

The paradox in human appreciation of life is … they never appreciate the same recycling process within the identified span of one's own life … but, claim heavily how the fellow is subjected to recycling from "one" span or life to "another" … Some take a helpless attitude that one will be recycled as per their deeds (Karma) and some take a command to claim that one can dictate what one would be in the next life. The helpless recycling is often called "re-birth" or Punarjanma. The seemingly "voluntary" action to take a form is often called "re-incarnation" or "Avataara".

Really speaking, all matter-energy clusters (Prajaah) are subjected perpetual morphing (Yagnya) - apparently random in macroscopic or gross sense and very specific in microscopic or elementary sense. No one can dictate The Yagnya. Nobody could steer the gross changes in the world in any certain fashion - be it death of a human body or its path beyond or a planet or anything else. At the same time, nobody can change the elemental characteristics either - no one can dictate Hydrogen to combine with Oxygen to make steel! The un-yielding infinitude of elemental behavior seeks perpetual equilibrium amongst itself to BE ... to just BE! Any meaning projected on Yagnya is just a wishful belief one generates within one's perception!! Therefore, one can become anything as well as nothing at all after death ...

Yonimanye prapadyante shareerattvaaya dehinah |

SthaaNumanye'nusanyanti yathaa karma yathaa shrutam ||

Therefore, if one insists, rebirth is real … it IS real as of NOW as EVER … helpless recycling is all one can ride as long as the perception remains! If one insists that God takes Avataara to sustain equilibrium in existence … it IS real as of NOW and as EVER ... without such a force cycling through all the apparent recycling, how can there be harmony across the diverse appearances the matter-energy clusters morphs itself into?! How can any thing can remain integral to whatever it IS without THAT??!!

If one transcends the limitations of one's intellect ... how can there be any life isolated in this universe?! ... how can there be any disconnect between any lives ever??!! ... HOW CAN THERE BE ANYTHING BUT THAT AS IS AND AS EVER???!!! ... Then ... how can there be any recycling at all? ... what is birth and what is death?? … how can there be any re-birth or re-incarnation???

Does it matter who made the observations and how they were made?! TRUTH remains AS IS and AS EVER irrespective of who perceives it and when, where and how IT is perceived! Can Gravity be different because of Newton's interpretation; did the apples start falling down differently??!! Can the matter-energy relation be limited to whatever an Einstein says???!!! THE TRUTH REMAINS AS IS and AS EVER. No one can dictate it in any way. When and where there was no recycling of matter and energy? When and where there could be anything that sustains itself without THAT?? How can there be any nows and thens, heres and theres, when ALL remain THAT ALL-PERVASIVE TRUTH as IS and as EVER???

Please do not try to imagine some lines of boundaries in terms of space, time, emotions, etc. in an attempt to limit THAT! Of course, NOTHING happens to THAT ... but, it would be a great loss for you though ...

Iha chedavedeetatha satyam (pratibodham amritam) asti na chedihaavedeen mahatee vinashTih | Bhooteshu bhooteshu vichitya dheerah pretyaasmaallokaan amritaa bhavanti ||

The wise ones realizing the ALL-INCLUSIVE PRESENCE of the ALL-EXCLUSIVE TRUTH would erase the notional lines of separation and merger drawn within one's imagination to BE THAT as IS and as EVER. It ought to be realized HERE and NOW. Else, it is a great loss to one who doesn't. How can who fails to understand something while alive (with all the faculties intact) as of now and here can ever fathom the same after death (when all the faculties are also disseminated)???!!! ...

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------

Dear Gita-Talk member,

Reincarnations take place all over the globe. The
science is picking up data where ever it can find it
to prove it or disprove the concept of "karma and
reincarnation". The present trend supports the idea
of karma and reincarnation.

Good Luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

-------------------------------------------

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Thursday, March 29, 2012

[gita-talk] Re: Regarding Remarriage - Please Help

 

radhe radhe.

please help me convince the lady of my dreams that it is okay to marry again.her husband was abusive and abandoned her. he made it clear he has moved on and in a relationship with his attorney. i have known this lady for years and she is what i have prayed for--devoted,good, kind and very loving to god and all his devotees.she is afraid that it is a sin to remarry. the sadakas here are very knowledgeable and i am sure that you can explain to this good lady that she is doing no wrong if she marries again. her family have given their blessings and will be the happiest to see her happily married this time.

radhe radhe.

a sadaka.
vbp

----------------------------------------------------

radhe radhe

1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady? am single
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love? we are both in late
40's
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages? no children from her and one from mine who lives with his
mother...my lady love accepts him
4. will the children accept this marriage? yes
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children? no
what is the profession of this man? am professional writer
6. what is earning of this man? good earnings
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? non working will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?no
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire? love the person that she is, will never force
carnal needs on her
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage? she is my dream come true
and while there is not guarentee for the future, will try my best.
this discussion is to assure her that she is not commiting any sin by
remarriage. she loves me but is afraid of marrying second time. this is reason
why i ask here so when she reads your advise she will not feel guilty.

thanks to all who answered.

radhe radhe
vbp
-------------------------------------------------

One might need to be sure that the lady who lost her husband is not willing
to marry again really because she considers this as a sin punishable by God.
It all depends on the nature of the ladyand her current circumstances. She
may not be willing to marry because she thinks that she cannot mentally
accept another person as husband while she is still in such high intensity
love and devotion to her departed husband. She may also not want to bring
her children to the care of a foster father. She may worry that he may not
find a new husband of her liking if she remarries and dies not want to take
the risk of getting disappointed. She may be confident of living her life
independent of a husband rest of her life. She may be disgusted with the a
life with a husband. She might like to take up the responsibilty of
completing her lost husband's wishes and unfinished work. She may not like
to take the risk of marrying again and losing a new husband again and get
completely shattered. There could be various other reasons. It may not be
desirable to convince her to marry again by giving arguments as to why
marring again is desirable. She must be helped to think calmly and quietly
on her own on this issue. She would do well to write down her own arguments
of not marrying again and critically examine their about validity in the
light of her future expectations, obligations, resources as well as her
inner nature. She should be encouraged to deliberate with in herself on all
these and given unbiassed responses to her questions on the subject. It is
she who have to come out with a decision that is fully thought out by her.
Often people do not do this excercise adequately and clings to a decision
that really does not suit the persons nature, strengths and weaknesses.
She may study Gita on her own and get convinced that she is destined to do
and lead life in accordance with the wishes of the God. And, then she should
pray to God to get the illumination by His Grace.
Basudeb Sen

--------------------------------------------------

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Dear Mr Questioner:

Said Mira Baai - AISE VAR KO KYAA VAROO JO JAYE AUR MAR JAAY ! VAR VARYO
GOPALJI, MHARO CHUDLO AMAR HO JAAY !!

Why should one choose that to be one's husband, who takes birth and dies? Why
should not one choose Girdhar Gopal to be her husband so that her marital
relationship becomes immortal and glitter of bangles never fades ?

Why? Answer..!!

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha Chatterji

---------------------------------------------
Hari Om

This is 'Gita Talk Forum' ! Here we can give you principles , we can tell you as to what Scriptures provide for and we can state the views of Saints and Sages, but we can not persuade lady in reference to take a call on an issue which she herself is clearly perceiving as a SIN? She has her antar-atma guiding her already. Even if each and every member of this Selfless Divine Forum says that the act of re-marrying by her is not a sin, the very fact that she is considering that act to be a SIN, will make that act to be a SIN. We do not make others commit sin or recommend that one should act against his/her ANTARATMA/Conscience/Viveka.

What is sin? Sin is an action against one's conscience (antaratma/Viveka/ Discrimination) or an action against dictates of Scriptures (BG 16:24) ! It is only when one is KIMKARTAVYA VIMOODHA ( in dilemma regarding what is duty/what is not duty) that the Scriptures are referred. But if one is very clear from Antaratma , there is no need for any reference to Scriptures or seeking advice. Hence I am not at all talking regarding views of Scriptures, Saints and Sages and in particular of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj on the issue of re-marriage by a female in principle.

Your antaratma is your Guru/Advisor ! In the instant case, fortunately, the lady has already an 'awakened viveka/conscience' as she has gone through acute sorrows already during her now abandoned marital relationship. Secondly, she has reached Satsanga too through this Divine Forum. VIVEKA as a law gets AWAKENED by two things: 1- Sorrows 2-Satsanga. Hence she already has , presumably and logically, an awakened viveka and the voice of such an antar-atma is the BEST GUIDE. Where then is need for any interference?

Poets have said about this ANTARATMA:

TORA MANN DARPAN KAHLAAYE ! BHALE BURE SAARE KARMO KO DEKHE AUR DIKHAAYE !! Your mann (antar-atma/conscience/ Viveka) is a mirror. It invariably shows you (guides you) as to what is good karma and what is bad karma.

Another poet said:

MUKHADAA DEKH LE PRAANI JARA DARPAN MAIN ! DEKH LE KITNA PUNYA HAI KITNA PAAP TERE JEEVAN MAIN !! O Jeeva (Praani) ! See your face in the mirror (check with your antaratma/viveka) and find out as regards the quantum of sins or virtues made by you.

Such is the glory of Viveka/ Antaratma/ Conscience/Discrimination faculty/ "In built mirror" placed in every human being as a special gift by Paramatma. The glory of human birth is exclusively due to this "in built mirror" in you.

HOWEVER , if the lady herself, sincerely wants an advice and is in a dilemma regarding way forward, it is another matter altogether. In that case, let her ask the Q. We shall give appropriate and correct response to her based on Scriptures of Sanatan Dharma /Saints and Sages.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
First marriage has to disloved by way of Sastras and that lady should not wear any thing belonging to her husband. She has to give gap of 30 days before remarriage. Then she can get remarried in any temple that has prominance of saints who visited it. Since it second marrage she has to be more careful to follow sastras. She cannot share pleasures with you on certain days like day before Ekadasi, on Ekadasi, next day Duvadesi, Poornima, Amavasyiya, 30 days of Margasiras month. Rest God will bless you. Bhramin ladies are forbidden to remarriage.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Dear vdp the question lacks detail, RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI, brought up some good points for you to contemplate'
Not withstanding these comments I will give a good point of reference for you and this lady you aspire to marry: (ex wikipedia)
Hinduism in general disapproves of divorce. A divorced woman is generally forced to live as a widow. However in theological terms, both the Manusamhita and the Arthashastra state that if a husband is impotent, a traitor, an ascetic or an outcast, or missing for a prescribed number of years, the wife take her property ('Stridhan'), leave him without blame and marry again. The Arthashastra also declares that in other circumstances, divorce can take place only by mutual consent.

Rather than I getting tangled up in theological debate, I suggest you check out those references above; some time ago I did read up on this subject, and prima facie I cant see any sin being occurred by a divorce, and remarriage in the circumstance you describe, I would put more bias in any research in Arthashastra, as it appears more ancient and scholarly.

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.
-----------------------------------------------------

i do not nserstand what this has got to do with Gita and its talk. Why are the moderators allowing personal matters to appear in here?
krishna

------------------------------------------------

The following information are required to answer:
1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady?
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love?
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages?
4. will the children accept this marriage?
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children?
what is the profession of this man?
6. what is earning of this man?
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire?
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage?

RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI

---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks, Namaste!

Dear vpbJi, We understand your dilemma! However, it is not clear from your post the situation you are in. For example, what is yours and lady's age now; whether this will be your first marriage. Do you need blessings of this forum to convince her to remarry or it is a genuine concern for her on your part? Since she thinks its a sin to remarry, does she have another ways to spend life differently. I am assuming child is not involved here. Do yours and her interests match in pursuing spirituality or other aspects such as children, families on both sides, specially, if you have to live in a joint family! She is your dream lady as you put it, however, are you hers? In all humility I would ask you to consider these points.

As much as marriage is appropriate for a divorced person, more so for young lady, it is still a big concern for long term commitment, specially for a lady who has gone through the abusive marriage already. I would allow her lot of time to think about it very carefully and weigh all her options including your proposal. She may be in need of understanding, love and care from people at this time!

I don't imply here to take a business like approach and overlook the overriding love and care for her you have! These are practical considerations for both of you, not just for her. You know it that Love is blind but marriage is an eye opener! After few years of marriage, physical attractions for each other are diminished as a plan of Nature! At that time can both of you say "I couldn't have gotten better partner than I have now"? Can you allow her all the freedom to live God-centered life, and join her in it? Giving freedom is receiving freedom too. Love is such Freedom in the marriage!

Even though I am not directly quoting scriptures, what I am saying is based on practical implications that comes from Scriptures/BG/Swamiji's teaching and as I have understood them in my life!

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------------

Marriage grants the opportunity to become devout to each other.It is a social and spiritual partenership that functions with the fluid capital of love and dedication.Married life in itself is meditation.This most probably is the meaning of Khajuraho architecture--a temple complex.One failure is nothing more than an accident in life which needs rehablitation..
subhashtewari

------------------------------------------

Scriptures say Krishna and Radha never married each other YET they are the top examples of LOVE [not passion that needs possession by marriage]. Hint is sufficient for the wise.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-------------------------------------------------------

I know 2 women from shastra. One is Mandodari and another is Tara (I might be wrong with the name - it is wife of Sugreeva). Mandodari was wife of Ravana and after Ravana's death, she accepted Vibhishana as her husband. The wife of Sugreeva (I think Tara) accepted Vali has her husband when Sugreeva ran away. After Vali's death, she accepted Sugreeva as her husband again. Don't worry about this sin.

Relationships are complex. It shows your immaturity to ask this question in this forum. I think you need to be confident about yourself and try to understand her. I hope everything that will happen will be good. Have that faith!

At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------

In another forum some one questioned me: Is there any paap, wrong?
Ans. There are only legal bindings on a human being imposed by law of the land. In all other matters, one is FREE to explore. In fact, this freedom is what makes one grow 'what you call spiritually'.
Y V Chawla

-----------------------------------------------

Remarriage should be welcome.
Mohan K Muju

--------------------------------------------------------

Marriage … re-marriage … conjugate unions … THE UNION …

There is absolutely nothing wrong in re-marriage if one chooses to … just like there is absolutely nothing wrong if one chooses to marry in the first place. But, it is worth to understand why one wants marriage to start with.

Every living being is born incomplete and perpetually look outward to fill the void(s) in order to attain completeness. Gender is one such huge void that one can't fathom how to transcend! In fact it is only next to its elder sibling, ego, in its formidability. They do not even let the fellow wonder otherwise. Every fellow inevitably starts cognizing with a self identification (The I) and what immediately follows is the associated gender. Accordingly, the languages concocted by such beings are also afflicted by the two - identity and gender.

If you consider it seriously, the two are self-crippled to be incomplete as ever. The only way they can compensate their lopsided existence is to seek relations with elements around that seem to complement them in a way. The complementary requirement from the objects sought out is to possess the qualities that are absent in oneself. Therefore, a male looks for a female and vice versa. All other relations are also developed with mutually complementary qualities in order to balance the mutually perceived difficiencies. Any void - sense of incompleteness - that is left untreated within would generate a sense of loneliness within. Everyone looks for relations only to eradicate such sense of loneliness felt within. Naturally, one develops a kind of attraction to the qualities that compenstate the lack of the same with oneself. All attractions are developed only due to the perceived loneliness in the absence of the targetted object.

Any relation, from social perspectives, can be declared a success if the completeness that is sought knowingly or unknowingly is attained and more importantly sustained. In other words, if a perfect harmony is achieved amongst the particpants in the relation to dissolve them into their collective UNITY, the immediate purpose of the relations sought is served. BUT, WOULD THAT ABSOLVE ALL THE RELATIONAL NEEDS ONE IS INFESTED WITH CATEGORICALLY?! Unfortunately, the answer remains NO!! Any existential union achieved through mutual conjugation, in spite of attaining a localized COMPLETENESS, is bound toward its own eventual decimation sooner than it is conceived!!! So, the very collective entity starts searching for alliances to fill in its newly perceived voids. The search continues forever ... That is the existential path (DakshiNa Patha).

Coming back to your case, your yearning for the pious lady is very much appreciable - it is natural as well as sane. If it is the social taboo that she is hesitant, there is no basis for that - her parents are happy and the one who wants to marry her is more than happy! If it is the religious taboo that she is afraid of, you have to make her see through the paradoxes that a religion imposes in one's ignorance with transparency from your end. IF SHE IS FEELING LONELY WITHIN, SHE SHOULD ADDRESS HER PROBLEM ASAP! It is every being's natural duty to address any such loneliness that may arise time to time. Only when one can address such existential loneliness successfully, one would graduate to spiritual considerations. BEWARE! TRANSPARENCY ALONE CAN CATCH SUCH NEEDS!! Any blindfoldedness with wishful ideas and idols (more so if they have religious or spiritual appearances) would only mislead and misplace as ever. How can a fragile existence that cannot cater to a small void within can ever fill the universe that ever is???!!!

But, at the same time, is it not wiser on your part to confirm the conjugate need from the other end? Observing your appreciation of her qualities regarding her spiritual orientation, it may be possible that she might be considering the social separation from her previous husband as a boon in the hiding. It is possible that she may feel liberated from the social bondage so that she can focus on the ultimate unity that relieves one from the incomplete voids of gender and identities altogether ... like Meerabai did! She may be thinking that another existential marriage/relation could be a hurdle in the ONLY MARRIAGE that is worthy ever ... THE UNION WITH LORD KRISHNA! If she is into such transcendental path (Uttara Patha), no meaning in bother her ... you will have to attend to your loneliness elsewhere.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
------------------------------------------------------

To vbp
The old beliefs of widow remarriage were based on the belief that the cause of the husbands death was due to the bad vibes of the wife which may or may not be partly true, & the reply to which i will not give to you on this public portal so as not to hurt others
However if you give me the name of the lady on my mail address i may be give you my answer which you will be free to follow or not
Regards
Balbir singh

Shree hari Ram Ram

Balbirji, we do not encourage exchange of email ids in this forum, thank you, gita talk moderators, ram ram

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[gita-talk] why all reincarnations happened in India only ?

 

When Krishna is all in all for this universe why all his referenes are limited to India . Probably in those times swarga was Himalaya and patal was south India . At the max we see referene of Lanka in Ramayana and Gandhari from Gandhar in Mahabharata . But these were part of Indian subcontinent .

Girish

=============================================

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Sunday, March 18, 2012

[gita-talk] Re: If one Accepts Krishna, but has No Desire to Chant, is that Misfortune?

 

SHREE HARI RAM RAM

THERE IS NOT BE ANY POSTINGS FOR A FEW DAYS. THANK YOU!

GITA TALK MODERATORS, RAM RAM

-----------------------------------------

If one has no desire to chant, but still accepts Krishna as The Absolute Truth, can he consider himself as being still fortunate ? I use to chant, but now i have no desire too. Could this mean that i have been cursed ?
OM TAT SAT
Dave

--------------------------------------------

OK, Naga Narayana. You put me in my place. Thanks.
Dave

----------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste! Dear Dave,

There was a great modern time Christian mystic who was trained by a
Hindu Swami, this mystic was Fr, John Main. In one of his books a
trilogy, he wrote: "You must surrender to the mantra, in the end you
will surrender the mantra", where's the curse in that?

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.

-----------------------------------------
Hari Om

First on fortunate/unfortunate/curse issue. The very fact that you have got human birth takes away decisively and completely any scope/possibility of your being ever spiritually unfortunate..till you breathe your last. If after getting human birth, still there remains a scope for misfortune, then what is the glory of this special gift of Paramatma to all of us ? There is no misfortune, therefore, at all of any nature whatsoever for any human being walking on the path which is the very goal of human birth viz spirituality. What curse? Human life is a boon irrespective of any situation, circumstance, status...! There is not even a shadow of curse over it.

You said you 'accept' Krishna but have no desire to chant His name. Let me first dwell upon 'chanting' ! 'Chanting' essentially is an 'activity' and it is a Law: You can't reach God by action. It is 'bhava' (sentiment) which reaches Him. All actions take place in the regime of Prakruti and both you (Purusha) and Paramatma are beyond Prakruti. There are two things : One- Doing Two-Happening. You are talking of 'doing' the chanting of Lord's name. But the real Naam Japa is NOT DONE, it HAPPENS effortlessly. Parrot does chanting, but in Bhakta the chanting happens. Bhava is primary !

Glory actually is not of 'utterring' the name of Lord...it is of 'becoming' of God. A Chaste (Pativrata) traditional Indian wife NEVER utters the name of her husband throughout her life (even after death of her husband)..but so what? She 'becomes' of her husband and thereby gets emancipated. Number of names chanted is not important, the concentration towards Him is important. Hence on this count also you need not worry.

But you should worry on this 'acceptance' thing. I agree with Nagaji - once you have 'accepted' , the chanting /remembrance should HAPPEN effortlessly. Acceptance and remembrance then should go together. You should remember Him without remembering. Do you need to make an effort to remember if you are bachelor or married? Hence revisit your belief that you have 'accepted' ! There is a difference between "learning" and "accepting"! Parrot also utters Raam.. Raam.. But it has not 'accepted' , it has only 'learnt' ! Hence when the cat comes, it forgets Raam...Raam.. And starts uttering 'tain..tain' ! Hence 'accept' , do not 'learn'. 'Experience' follows 'acceptance' not 'learning' ! A human ONLY can accept: I am God's, Only God is mine, nothing else is mine.

Lastly, what have you accepted? That Krishna is Truth? What does that mean? Where is 'your relationship' with Him? You must accept YOUR relationship with Krishna and Only Krishna and with no one else ! Where is negation of any other? Where is even categorical statement: Mere To Girdhar Gopal ?

I also agree with Nagaji that when you 'accept' your relationship with Krishna, thereafter all your actions can only be towards Him only JUST AS: Everything done by a chaste wife is towards her husband only. Consider in this respect the following two liner:

HAATH KAAM MUKH RAAM HAI, HIRDE SAANCHI PREET ! 'HARIYA' GRIHASHTHI SANT KI, YEHI UTTAM REET !!

Said Saint Hariyaji: Work on hand, the Lord's Name on tongue and 'true love for God' in heart...these 3 traits are the ideal rules of a true householder Saint.

TRUE LOVE FOR GOD- comes to you effortlessly (Happens) - when you ACCEPT - MERE TO GIRDHAR GOPAL, DOOSARO NA KOI ! It is a law: Love emanates effortlessly out of 'mineness' ! Here you have 'accepted' mineness with Girdhar Gopal...that is it ! Now all of the above 3 traits will come effortlessly in you !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
-----------------------------------------------

Spirituality is not to give relief through experiences including chanting. It is to show that stable relief through experiences is not possible. Suddenly, every experience becomes 'live' whether painful or pleasurable.This liveliness is chanting 24x7.
Y V Chawla

--------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka regarding accepting Krishna.

Prahlada Maharaja described nine processes in the seventh Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam that are recognized as pure devotional services.

1. Hearing ( Sravanam) the glories of the Lord.
2. Chanting( Kirtanam) of the holy names of the Lord.
3. Remembering ( Vishnu Smaranam).
4. Serving the Lord's lotus feet.
Goddess Lakshmi is constantly engaged in serving the lotus feet of the Lord.
5. Deity Worship ( Arcanam).
6. Praying ( Vandanam)
7. Executing orders ( Dasyam)
Like Hanuman who executed Lord Rama' s orders.
8. Serving as a friend ( Sakhyam). Krishna was Arjuna's friend in the battlefield.
9. Complete surrender ( Atma Nivedanam).
We can serve the Lord in any of the nine ways. But in Kaliyuga, the chanting of the Holy Names is advised because it is simple, and practical. Serving the Lord in any way , helps us advance spiritually.
Thank You.
Prasad. A. Iragavarapu, MD

-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,
Sri Dave you are blessed.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!

DaveJI, Of course, Swamiji has spoken below about the great benefit of chanting when one is sincere and gets immersed in it. Chanting has to go down from the lips to the heart with feeling every word as if engaging God in a one to one dialogue.

However, it is perhaps true in your case, that chanting has generated a desire for Absolute Truth. I am talking based on my experience. It is not that chanting should be stopped forcefully, but chanting itself may be adding another aspect in your life! One must be honest to examine the feeling of not chanting whether it is due to boredom or laziness or it is natural!

It may also happen that you may get back to chanting more vigorously after pursuit of Truth by clear understanding of what Krishna is experientially! As I feel, Devotion is like a sacred water sprinkled over the path of Knowledge to keep it wet with Love on the way to Realization.

Therefore, my suggestion is to leave it to Krishna to make this decision for you while you sincerely pursue your Divine desire for Absolute Truth without holding on to or refusing to whatever comes naturally your way!

Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------
Dear Dave,

I am a bit intrigued with couple of your utterances: "have I been cursed?" "accept KrishNa … no interest in His chants"

One has to take FULL responsibility for whatever happens to oneself. If there is any curse that can be effective on any … it ought to be one's own! Nobody can curse anyone. Trust me. The eternal truth is "one is solely responsible for whatever one becomes". One ought to help oneself. Nobody else can ever help when one is not receptive. Same way, one's doom remains within one's own belief. Nobody can create such a belief when one is not receptive. One alone is one's friend as well as foe in all his/her deeds.

Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamavasaadayet |

Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuh aatmaiva ripuraatmanah || 6.5 ||

Therefore, the only curse possible is to let beliefs of doom and raise eclipse one's appreciation of THE TRUTH; in other words, one's ignorance! You would lose interest in chanting or anything else either when your intended results are not perceived or when your intentions change. Therefore, the right questions are: (1) Why did I fail to receive the results intended in chanting? and/or (2) Why did I lose interest in chanting? These questions remain relevant ONLY IF you care. Is it bothering you that you can't chant anymore? Then you should answer these questions for your own sake. Maybe, the answer is in the confusion between "acceptance" and "not chanting" ... just a perspective for your benefit ...

Secondly, I can't fathom how one can "accept" KrishNa and remain "not chanting Him"! The very acceptance is chanting and the very reason for chanting is the acceptance. If the two were isolated for any reason, there is no meaning in either! THEY HAVE MEANING ONLY AS ONE ... NEVER AS TWO!

Chanting is not necessarily in some vocal sound ... that is just an expression! Appreciating the ultimate reality through an expression of such a kind perpetually is TRUE CHANTING. The expression could be a sound such as "Om", "Hare KrishNa", "a-squared plus b-squared is c-squared", etc.; or an image such as a flute, peacock feather, etc.; or an abstract idea such as time, space, gravity, etc.; or just an absolute silence. The deep appreciation of THE TRUTH amidst all the physical imagery around, sensorial noise within as well as the abstract silence beyond is the TRUE ACCEPTANCE. Then how can there be anything but a CHANT anywhere?!

When the acceptance is deep-rooted, anything that you see or not see remains a divine chant. When you realize that anything you perceive is a divine chant as such, then the very need for acceptance retires. When the acceptance is dissolved deep within, there can't be anything but chanting anywhere. KrishNa alone remains ... TRUTH IN ITS ABSOLUTE PRESTINE PRESENCE ...

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------------

In fact Krishna says in Geeta
not to do jaap of name Krishna
instead to chant AUM
that to inside heart
not just dress a statue of Krishna and simply
stop worship after offering flowers.

Infact in later stages the
AUM shall come out with each beat of heart

Krishna says human is made of three parts

JAD
CHETAN
ATMA

or

non innervated
mental
spirit

The mental barrier gives us firm belief in this mortal
world and thus our true self or spirit can not be realized by brain or by physical or mental chanting
but by enlightened heart which is seat of human soul.

so never mind to chant name Krishna
infacr Arjun had to beg a thousand times the
Krishna for gettong excuse for not chanting Aum
but taking name Krishna.

AUM,
AMEN,
AUNKAAR
AMIN

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"

--------------------------------------------

You have asked this question [to get an answer] and still say that you have no desire. Strange statement.
Humbly,
Saadhaka

--------------------------------------------------

Glories of Chanting the Lord's Name - 1

Naamsankirtanam yasya sarvapaappranaashanam |

Pranaamo dukhshamanastam namaami harirm param || (Srimad Bhagwat 12/13/23)

"I prostrate respectfully to That Supreme Essence, Shri Hari, whose Name is chanted, the destroyer of all sins and bowing to Whom all sorrows come to an end."

In this Kaliyug, the Divine Name of the Lord it most glorious of all. The glories of chanting the Divine Name is in all four "yugs" - Satya, Treta, Dvaapar and Kali (four ages of the world). However, in Kaliyug the chanting of the Lord's Name is main premise, the greatest support, the basic foundation. It is the Divine Name of the Lord that will easily lead one to Salvation and it is the best of all spiritual disciplines.

One, the Divine Name is "maansik" japa, one is "upaanshu" japa, one is "saadhaaran japa" and one is "sankirtan" . "Maansik" japa is that in which the Divine Name is chanted silently within the mind, where neither the throat, the tongue or the lips move. "Upaanshu" japa is that in which the mouth is closed, but with the throat and tongue the japa is taking place, and it cannot be heard by the ears. "Saadhaaran" japa is that in which the ears can hear and others can also hear. "Sankirtan" is that in which with musical notes and melody in a loud voice and tone, one chants the Divine Name. Besides the Divine Name, one may also sing about the Lord's divine sports, His qualities, His power and majesty etc. In all of this, the chanting of the Divine Name is the easiest and best of all.

Just as in the case of Divine Name repetition that is done in the mind, the more that the mind becomes immersed in God, the better it will be, similarly, in chanting the Lord's Name, along with the beats and tone, and the melody and musical notes, chanting in a higher pitch, the more that one becomes immersed while chanting the Lord's Name, that much better it will be.

The mind must become engaged in God and blissful while chanting the Lord's Name. It means that whether others are looking or not, whether others are chanting or not, whether the chanting has any affect on others - such sentiments should not remain at all in the mind. Such sentiments are a great obstacle in one's salvation. When showmanship and worldly impression of name-fame comes into chanting the Lord's Name, the power of the Divine Name does not have much effect.

The three impressions that exist are - impressions of people, body, and scriptures. Similarly there are three desires - money, progeny, and honor. All these lead to great downfall. Even after chanting the Divine Name, doing auspicious work, associating with holy company and Truth, giving discourses, sharing the Lord's divine pastimes, when one blends with the filth of impressions and desires, the glories of chanting the Lord's Name do not remain. However, Divine Name recitation, divine stories, chanting the Lord's Name, association with Truth never goes wasted. There will definitely be benefits from it. But due to these desires and worldly impressions, one does not benefit significantly from these, rather there is very little benefit. (to be continued)

From book "Kalyaan Path" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji
**********************************************************************
TO READ MESSAGE IN HINDI PLEASE VISIT:
http://www.satcharcha.blogspot.com
Titled "Sankirtan ki Mahima - 1" on Jan 14, 2011.

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[gita-talk] Re: Regarding Remarriage - Please Help

 

radhe radhe.

please help me convince the lady of my dreams that it is okay to marry again.her husband was abusive and abandoned her. he made it clear he has moved on and in a relationship with his attorney. i have known this lady for years and she is what i have prayed for--devoted,good, kind and very loving to god and all his devotees.she is afraid that it is a sin to remarry. the sadakas here are very knowledgeable and i am sure that you can explain to this good lady that she is doing no wrong if she marries again. her family have given their blessings and will be the happiest to see her happily married this time.

radhe radhe.

a sadaka.
vbp

----------------------------------------------------

The following information are required to answer:
1. whether the person is married, divorced or going to divorce for
his love lady?
2. what is her age and what is the age of his lady love?
3. how many children this man and his lady love are having and how
many are male children and how many are female children and what are
their ages?
4. will the children accept this marriage?
5. will such marriage will asdversely maffect the future of the lives
of the children?
what is the profession of this man?
6. what is earning of this man?
7. is the lady love of this man a working woman or housewife? will
such marriage bring any disreputation to her or to her family?
8. why this man desires to marry this lady? out of sheet love or just
to satisfy his carnal desire?
9.what trust or guarantee this man can to his lady love that he will
not misbehave or desert her in future after marriage?

RATHINDRA PRASAD LAHIRI

---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks, Namaste!

Dear vpbJi, We understand your dilemma! However, it is not clear from your post the situation you are in. For example, what is yours and lady's age now; whether this will be your first marriage. Do you need blessings of this forum to convince her to remarry or it is a genuine concern for her on your part? Since she thinks its a sin to remarry, does she have another ways to spend life differently. I am assuming child is not involved here. Do yours and her interests match in pursuing spirituality or other aspects such as children, families on both sides, specially, if you have to live in a joint family! She is your dream lady as you put it, however, are you hers? In all humility I would ask you to consider these points.

As much as marriage is appropriate for a divorced person, more so for young lady, it is still a big concern for long term commitment, specially for a lady who has gone through the abusive marriage already. I would allow her lot of time to think about it very carefully and weigh all her options including your proposal. She may be in need of understanding, love and care from people at this time!

I don't imply here to take a business like approach and overlook the overriding love and care for her you have! These are practical considerations for both of you, not just for her. You know it that Love is blind but marriage is an eye opener! After few years of marriage, physical attractions for each other are diminished as a plan of Nature! At that time can both of you say "I couldn't have gotten better partner than I have now"? Can you allow her all the freedom to live God-centered life, and join her in it? Giving freedom is receiving freedom too. Love is such Freedom in the marriage!

Even though I am not directly quoting scriptures, what I am saying is based on practical implications that comes from Scriptures/BG/Swamiji's teaching and as I have understood them in my life!

Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------------

Marriage grants the opportunity to become devout to each other.It is a social and spiritual partenership that functions with the fluid capital of love and dedication.Married life in itself is meditation.This most probably is the meaning of Khajuraho architecture--a temple complex.One failure is nothing more than an accident in life which needs rehablitation..
subhashtewari

------------------------------------------

Scriptures say Krishna and Radha never married each other YET they are the top examples of LOVE [not passion that needs possession by marriage]. Hint is sufficient for the wise.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
-------------------------------------------------------

I know 2 women from shastra. One is Mandodari and another is Tara (I might be wrong with the name - it is wife of Sugreeva). Mandodari was wife of Ravana and after Ravana's death, she accepted Vibhishana as her husband. The wife of Sugreeva (I think Tara) accepted Vali has her husband when Sugreeva ran away. After Vali's death, she accepted Sugreeva as her husband again. Don't worry about this sin.

Relationships are complex. It shows your immaturity to ask this question in this forum. I think you need to be confident about yourself and try to understand her. I hope everything that will happen will be good. Have that faith!

At His feet in service,
G B

------------------------------------------------

In another forum some one questioned me: Is there any paap, wrong?
Ans. There are only legal bindings on a human being imposed by law of the land. In all other matters, one is FREE to explore. In fact, this freedom is what makes one grow 'what you call spiritually'.
Y V Chawla

-----------------------------------------------

Remarriage should be welcome.
Mohan K Muju

--------------------------------------------------------

Marriage … re-marriage … conjugate unions … THE UNION …

There is absolutely nothing wrong in re-marriage if one chooses to … just like there is absolutely nothing wrong if one chooses to marry in the first place. But, it is worth to understand why one wants marriage to start with.

Every living being is born incomplete and perpetually look outward to fill the void(s) in order to attain completeness. Gender is one such huge void that one can't fathom how to transcend! In fact it is only next to its elder sibling, ego, in its formidability. They do not even let the fellow wonder otherwise. Every fellow inevitably starts cognizing with a self identification (The I) and what immediately follows is the associated gender. Accordingly, the languages concocted by such beings are also afflicted by the two - identity and gender.

If you consider it seriously, the two are self-crippled to be incomplete as ever. The only way they can compensate their lopsided existence is to seek relations with elements around that seem to complement them in a way. The complementary requirement from the objects sought out is to possess the qualities that are absent in oneself. Therefore, a male looks for a female and vice versa. All other relations are also developed with mutually complementary qualities in order to balance the mutually perceived difficiencies. Any void - sense of incompleteness - that is left untreated within would generate a sense of loneliness within. Everyone looks for relations only to eradicate such sense of loneliness felt within. Naturally, one develops a kind of attraction to the qualities that compenstate the lack of the same with oneself. All attractions are developed only due to the perceived loneliness in the absence of the targetted object.

Any relation, from social perspectives, can be declared a success if the completeness that is sought knowingly or unknowingly is attained and more importantly sustained. In other words, if a perfect harmony is achieved amongst the particpants in the relation to dissolve them into their collective UNITY, the immediate purpose of the relations sought is served. BUT, WOULD THAT ABSOLVE ALL THE RELATIONAL NEEDS ONE IS INFESTED WITH CATEGORICALLY?! Unfortunately, the answer remains NO!! Any existential union achieved through mutual conjugation, in spite of attaining a localized COMPLETENESS, is bound toward its own eventual decimation sooner than it is conceived!!! So, the very collective entity starts searching for alliances to fill in its newly perceived voids. The search continues forever ... That is the existential path (DakshiNa Patha).

Coming back to your case, your yearning for the pious lady is very much appreciable - it is natural as well as sane. If it is the social taboo that she is hesitant, there is no basis for that - her parents are happy and the one who wants to marry her is more than happy! If it is the religious taboo that she is afraid of, you have to make her see through the paradoxes that a religion imposes in one's ignorance with transparency from your end. IF SHE IS FEELING LONELY WITHIN, SHE SHOULD ADDRESS HER PROBLEM ASAP! It is every being's natural duty to address any such loneliness that may arise time to time. Only when one can address such existential loneliness successfully, one would graduate to spiritual considerations. BEWARE! TRANSPARENCY ALONE CAN CATCH SUCH NEEDS!! Any blindfoldedness with wishful ideas and idols (more so if they have religious or spiritual appearances) would only mislead and misplace as ever. How can a fragile existence that cannot cater to a small void within can ever fill the universe that ever is???!!!

But, at the same time, is it not wiser on your part to confirm the conjugate need from the other end? Observing your appreciation of her qualities regarding her spiritual orientation, it may be possible that she might be considering the social separation from her previous husband as a boon in the hiding. It is possible that she may feel liberated from the social bondage so that she can focus on the ultimate unity that relieves one from the incomplete voids of gender and identities altogether ... like Meerabai did! She may be thinking that another existential marriage/relation could be a hurdle in the ONLY MARRIAGE that is worthy ever ... THE UNION WITH LORD KRISHNA! If she is into such transcendental path (Uttara Patha), no meaning in bother her ... you will have to attend to your loneliness elsewhere.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
------------------------------------------------------

To vbp
The old beliefs of widow remarriage were based on the belief that the cause of the husbands death was due to the bad vibes of the wife which may or may not be partly true, & the reply to which i will not give to you on this public portal so as not to hurt others
However if you give me the name of the lady on my mail address i may be give you my answer which you will be free to follow or not
Regards
Balbir singh

Shree hari Ram Ram

Balbirji, we do not encourage exchange of email ids in this forum, thank you, gita talk moderators, ram ram

-----------------------------------------------

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