Shree Hari Ram Ram
LAST ROUND BEFORE CLOSURE ON THIS TOPIC. RAM RAM
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I am a Psychiatrist and work on SUICIDE PREVENTION.
What are the spiritual inputs one could use in this activity
samaantha
Dr Harish Shetty
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Shree Hari Ram Ram
Please read the SUDDEN AND UNTIMELY DEATH SADHAKA MESSAGE postings at -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/3212
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/3213
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Please also read previous GITA-TALK discussions on this topic -
Why one must not commit suicide ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1750
What happens to a Soul when one commits suicide?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4511
Why Should Suicide be Called Aatma Hatya?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4547
Any role of Prarabdh in Suicide? and it's effect on Outcomes ?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4548
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Dear sadhak you can inspire your patients from lives of Lord Ram,Sri Krishna and many saints.They never thought of committing suicides in their exra ordinary suffering.Homeopathic medicines are also useful in diminshing this negativity.
subhashtewari
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actually no body wants to die --only when a person [delinquent children ,unsuccessful persons , persons on heavy debts ,women married in loveless marriages .people hurt by their own people or when the point of no return comes in life ---love ,finances social prestige or some great shock beyond the ability to sustain people go to that extreme to end their lives ,--no hope --situation .as i think spirituality certainly teaches one to be hopeful in most hopeless situation ---to find happiness in the most unhappy situations --to give people who do not deserve yet do not expect any thing from them ,trying to forget hardest hurt ,forgive who has done the severest harm to you ---this is my experience from life .thank you
dr harish shetty --
jai shree krishnaÂ
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Saadhaka asks the Questioner (Dr) :
How do we know about the physical, mental and spiritual conditions and happenings a being experiences when the dead (suicide completed) can't tell anything to disclose all that?
When suicide is NOT complete, it is something else like effort to put down the body BUT not suicide.
Humbly,
Saadhaka
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Suicide happen in a state of extreme fear, physical handicaps/sickness/disability, uncertainty, hatred, insecurity, scarcity, high expectations, as a result of limiting beliefs some people develop over the years. Limiting beliefs that this should happen, this should not happen, I can not do this, I am not good, no body loves me, etc. Limiting beliefs which may not be true at all.....
Self-enquiry/encounter is the best way to dissolve these limiting beliefs. Spirituality helps in the self-enquiry/encounter process since Spirituality is about
Being one with One/God...
Power of happy thoughts....
Understanding the rules of nature / the bigger picture
Wisdom of life...
Abundance of everything in nature
Unconditional happiness within,
Loving self and others as it is, giving love
Acceptance of what is and then playing the best role .....
Living in joy, happiness, bliss....
Clear understanding of spirituality could bring people out from being negative to positive, being positive to happy natural state.....
This is best done in early stages to experience the wisdom of life and build conviction...
Of course, if the patient is in a critical stage he may need suitable medical attention first....
Sushil Jain
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Physiological and psychological ailments … role of spirituality …
I believe that the cure for any problem remains in its own domain though there are schools arguing for cure from alter-domains e.g. PraaNic Healing, Reki, etc. Though I understand their stand from a theoretical perspective, I hold skepticism on two grounds: (1) Even if one could address ones problems from alter-domains, the route within the domain ought to be the quickest and most effective; (2) correlation across domains of ailment and treatment cannot be established to develop confidence and growth in such approaches.
Dr Shetty, your question stands on two possibilities. If you are hoping for potential spiritual solutions for physiologically handicapped cases of retarded cerebral activities, you (a physician) are the solution for that. I do not believe any spirituality would restore such physiological impairments. At least I am not capable of fathoming such a possibility. However, such patients are definitely spiritual platforms for others to practice as Pratapji mentioned his personal example. Such a case is the most effective one for ego's observation. The ego that falsely beams on owning body, senses, etc. is given a shock treatment to realize how stupid its assumptions on life could be! A person of spiritual bent can learn a lot through such service.
HOWEVER, SPIRITALLY ROOTED MEDICAL PRACTICE (AND ALL OTHER HUMAN PRACTICES) WOULD MAKE AN IMMENSE DIFFERENCE TO HUMANITY AND LIFE ON EARTH IN GENERAL. The best that can happen to the unfortunate handicapped from a spiritual doctor is the spiritual compassion and exposure to such awareness. One, it provides a congenial ambience for the immediate existence. Two, one could possibly hope for the spiritual values to percolate into the system for a future bloom. Three, a spiritually aware person can acutely feel how severely handicapped is the ego even within the healthy environment one is blessed with and hence empathize the situation with the handicapped; the empathy can play a key parameter to convince the handicapped that the very handicap could be a gateway for a fortune from spiritual perspective to redeem confidence and esteem within. Best example I can think of is Gandhaari who chose to blinden herself so as to empathize her husband's problems and then advise him. Of course if the patient chooses to remain blind to the treatment like DhritaraashTra did, even Lord KrishNa cannot help! Spirituality is also limited ... it cannot penetrate one who refuses to seek it!!
If you are talking of the ego-borne psychological issues that has not impaired physio-chemistry within beyond repair, well you (as a physician) should play less role and let the spiritual practitioner within to take over the case. I do not want to lecture you on this. Medicine is a noble profession indeed. But, not necessarily the humans who practice it. Bhagavadgita is the best text for educating the doctors like you to appreciate the subconscious depths of such issues to enable yourself to educate and empower your patients to treat themselves appropriately. No amount of external help can remove the self-inflicted problems from within. I beg, doctors like you should study such scriptures in depth and apply a fraction of your appreciation in your daily practice. More than anything else, IT HELPS YOU! Of course IT HELPS THE NEEDY ONES AROUND IMMENSELY!!
Respects.
Naga Narayana.
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Dear Sadaks,
If a person suicides, he remains without sense organs (20 items like 5 pranas- 5 gyanedryams etc-) The suffering is 10 fold, as that jeeva suffers in hunger, thirst, sleeplessness, inability to convey by speech- action etc. Once a person understand this that his suicide is only for 10 fold sufferings, he will abstain from suicide. Above said is in our Sastras.
B.S
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Dear Ones, Namaste!
As a Psychiatrist, you know more, Dr. Shetty, about chemical imbalance and other physiological disorders involved in a patient who are depressed and thus thinking suicide. You must be administrating drugs to take car of that part.
I would tell patient that these drugs work wonder if you start leaving a God-centered life! In the beginning, I would not overwhelm patient with too much of traditional spirituality, I will wait for that!
We can change one's thinking to more positive, gradually wiping out the hopeless picture patient draws/sees for his/her doomsday! He needs to be assured that there is nothing in the world that cannot be resolved if one lives with trust in God, God being that Intelligence, Power, Love within us! Patient's trust in Life needs to be restored by restoring trust in those people or circumstances around him that leads to distrust, disbelief on his part. Assure him everybody loves him, not out to get him.
Talks between Doctor and patient should be such that he should look forward to meetings. He should be allowed to talk his heart out. I have found that such people need our ears more than our advise!
Such meetings are helpful to bring him back from his lows!
At some opportune time Doctor can lead him to meet some wise people, draw him to Satsangs, point out good books, some informative shows, spiritual movies, etc.
Based on personal experience, I can tell it is important for patients to be in the company of people who are volunteering their time to provide comfort to mentally challenged people.
I am volunteering a mentally challenged person who seems to have regained self-esteem from our friendship over the years. Now I have become fond of him, and think its my good fortune I was given him to take care who is taking care of me, is God in disguise!
Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt
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PLEASE READ GENERAL POINTS RELATED TO SUICIDE from question and answers session with Swamiji -
Question: A few students commit suicide, while failing in an examination. Why? How to solve this problem?
Swamiji: They commit suicide because their failure is an obstacle to their honor and praise that they desire. There is no joy in commiting suicide. Those who try to commit suicide but somehow escape it explain that suicide involves great suffering. He who commits suicide commits the deadly sin of murdering a human being and in future he has to suffer the worst tortures. So students should study the sacred books and keep company with great souls. Their company can root out such sins (evils)
From: "Be Good" pg 141 in English by Swami Ramsukhdasji
Question: Whatever the man remembers at the time of death (at time of leaving his body), that he will attain, does this ruling apply to even those that commit suicide ?
Swamiji: Yes! it applies to those who are committing suicide as well. But for those individuals it is very difficult for them to be in remembrance of God (auspiciousness). This is because they are committing suicide out of deep pain and suffering, but their desire remains to be happy. Secondly, when the life force is leaving them, they are repenting of their act, but they are unable to do anything about it. Thirdly, while life force is leaving, they undergo terrible and immense difficulties. If their inner feelings are pure, if they have faith in God, if they desire to remember God, then they will not do this terrible crime of committing suicide. Lastly, it is because the inner intellect is impure, that one thinks of committing suicide. Therefore those that commit suicide have a major downfall. Skanda Purana says that such persons do not attain salvation for several lives to come. Therefore, intelligent people must never ever think of suicide even out of forgetfulness or mistake.
From "Prashnouttermanimala" pg 94-95 by Swami Ramsukhdasji
Question: Is it proper to have "physician (or other) assisted suicide" (compassion based assisted death) or not?
Answer: It is not true compassion, rather it is lacking in proper understanding. A doctor's duty is try to keep the patient alive to the best of his ability; because no being wants to die. A diseased patient who is unconscious for years, he could gain consciousness someday. I have seen such a situation.
From "Prashnouttermanimaalaa" in Hindi pg 136 by Swami Ramsukhdasji
ADVICE PERTAINING TO WOMEN
Question: What should a wife do if her husband beats her and gives her trouble?
Answer: The wife should understand this to be the restitution, revenge (badlaa) and debts from previous birth, that are being paid off in this form. Therefore she should understand that her sins are being destroyed and that she is becoming pure. When her parents find out about this, they can take her to their own house because they certainly had not given their daughter in marriage to be beaten up !
Question: What should she do if her parents or parent's side cannot take her into their house?
Answer: Then she should bare the fruits of her past karmas (actions). Under such circumstances what else can the helpless lady do? She should patiently, perseverently bare the abuse of the husband. By baring this, she will become free from sins and further along it is possible that her husband may start liking her. If she is unable to tolerate the husband's abuse, she should confront him with it and live separately from him. She should lead a fearless life, earn her own livelihood, worshipping God.
A man should never beat a woman. Shikhandi was born only to kill Bhisma. When he came in front of Bhisma, Bhishma could not raise his hands to shoot him. The reason is that Shikhandi was a female in his previous birth and even in this birth, he was born a female and later became a male. Bhisma therefore considered him to be a woman and did not attack him.
Unfavorable situations in life arise only due to some sin. During such times if one engages in devotion and worship of Bhagwaan (God) with fervor and enthusiasm, then the gains will be two-fold. On one hand the sins will be destroyed and on calling out to Bhagwaan (God), your faith and trust (Bhagwad vishwaas) in Him increases. Therefore when adversities and misfortunes aise, women must not be disheartened and lose their courage.
When adversities and misfortunes arise, one must never ever think of commiting suicide; because a person incurs deadly sin by committing suicide. It is as much sin as commiting murder of another. Man thinks that by commiting suicide, his sorrows will come to an end and he will become happy. This is absolute blunder, because firstly the previous sins did not get destroyed, and in addition new sins were incurred ! Those who had attempted to commit suicide and were saved from the clutches of death, have shared their experience that they had to bare a lot of pain while committing suicide and later deeply regret saying it would have been better if they had not tried to commit such a crime, but what to do now? Such persons who commit suicide become ghosts and evil spirits and in that form they remain hungry and thirsty and undergo intense suffering. The point is those who commit suicide meet with grave misfortune and bad circumstances.
From "How to Lead a Householder Life" in English pg 68-70 by Swami Ramsukhdasji
Questioner: In foreign countries mostly people's character is degrading, adultery, violence and various sins are also taking place in abundance, then too those countries are progressing, why is it so?
Answer: That progress is worldly and material progress. Worldly and material progress is not progress as such at all. Spiritual progress is in fact real progress. He who does not have a spiritual eye, but has a material and worldly eye, they alone see worldly progress as great. In foreign countries, even on having worldly progress the people are unhappy from within. They are not peaceful, out of vexation they are burning within due to which suicides are increasing over there. The end result of material progress is destruction. Previously in our country the men with demoniac tendencies "rakshas" had much material amenities, but they destroyed others and they destroyed themselves as well. Ravana had made significant material progress, but the end result was that he destroyed all the people in his kingdom and also destroyed his wealth. The situation was so bad that in the end there was no one remaining even cry at the horrible condition!
In Mahabharat (Vanparva, Adhyaa 97) there is a story of Maharshi Agast's wife Lopamudra who desired some beautiful clothes and jewellry. To acquire money to satisfy this desire, Agast went to three kings - Shrurvaa, Bradhnashva and Trasdasyu. But at all three places he carefully studied the income and expenditure accounts. He thought that by taking any money from either of these people will cause distress to other beings, thus he took nothing from either of the kings. Then the three kings talked among themselves and said that there is a demon king named "Ilval" who is most wealthy; therefore for getting money he should go to that demon king only. Then the three kings along with Agast went to this demon. There they were able to acquire a lot of wealth. The point is that wealth that is in access of one's requirements is plentifully available among devils and demoniac people alone, not with kings. Therefore he who hoards wealth and protects it, is called a demoniac person. A demoniac person perishes - "yakshavitah patatyadhah" (Srimad Bhagwat 11/23/24) (to be continued)
From book in Hindi "Desh ki Vartamaan Dashaa aur Uskaa Parinaam" by Swami Ramsukhdasji
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