Shree Hari Ram Ram
THIS BRINGS CLOSURE TO SOME OLDER POSTINGS... PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND. THANK YOU ALL!
A FEW MORE EMAILS THIS WEEK TO CLEAN PENDING QUEUE
GITA TALK MODERATORS, RAM RAM
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Namaste to all,
I would like some advise on a dilemna i am currently facing. I am 32 years old and have been married for 2 yrs now. My husband and I had an arranged marriage. My husband and I experienced problems in our marriage right from the start but we thought in time we could make it work. Unfortunately though after numerous discussions, both my husband and I have mutually decided that we are not suited to each other as Life partners.I hold no ill will towards my husband and neither
does he as we think that our relationship has served its purpose ( we both found a good friend in each other).
The problem though is that My parents do not want me to end this marriage even though i have talked and explained to them that Both of us are miserable in our marriage trying to be something that we are not.I have tried to listen to my parents advise and keep trying to work at my marriage but its not working because both my husband and i are not happy but my parents insist that if we keep trying and 'ONE DAY' things will be all right. Is it my duty as a daughter to obey my parents wishes even if that means spoiling another persons life????
(my husband) as i know he will not be happy in this marriage. Please advise.
Thank you,
Namaste to all
SS
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A second marriage is NOT necesarily going to be sweeter?
A father who was in agreement with his son under similar situations.
"Mohan K Muju"
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Shree Hari Ram Ram
Swamiji used to get many such queries, he had therefore taken these questions and included them in a book called "How to lead a household life." In this book there is a section on "4. Advice Pertaining to Women" it is highly recommended that you read this section, which is available for free on the website -
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html
If you have doubts about what you read then please ask further questions. If thee is no doubt about what is written, then simply accept it. Swamiji's only aspiration was to see to the welfare and spiritual elevation of all. Meera Das, Ram Ram
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Dear SS,
You should understand that you are eternal and you are beyond body. Therefore, you (self or atma) have ultimately no birth as you are eternal. You (Self) have no father, no mother, no husband etc as you are beyond inert matter. Gita states that you (self) are full of happiness (ananda). So, be happy in every material situation. No one should be able to take away happiness from you.
Gita also states that you are part of God (Krishna) and He resides in your heart. So, God within you is your ultimate guide and teacher. When you are in dilemma, then go inwards and seek answers within. What appears to you common sense or inner voice is actually guidance from God within. So, follow what inner voice tells you. Use people around you as an aid but ultimately follow God within you. Teachings of God within you are beyond any book or person. So, follow Him instead of any book or person.
God is in everyone and everywhere. Therefore, give happiness to people around you as service to God. As God is within you, first be happy yourself. After being happy yourself, give happiness to other like your family. Making yourself suffer or unhappy is not service to God within you. Also, only those who are happy can give happiness to others. It is very important that you take action to make yourselves happy.
In summary, go inward and listen to inner voice. Do what makes you happy and peaceful. After being happy and peaceful, share that with others including your family.
At His feet in service,
G B
PS: I am sure that above advice will equip you to make right decision. If you still have doubts, please ask my email address from Gita Talk Moderators. I can assure you that no one can make decision for you. You have to decide yourself what makes you happy and what is best for you. Take help of inner voice (God within you).
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Dear Sadhaka,
I feel the topic here as most of sadhakas have mentioned is the topic of marriage rather than obeying of parents.
So foremost is to understand what marriage is all about. Many of us hv probably gone thru this satge in the first 2-3 yrs of marriage, at least I hv gone thru this very strong feeling to break the marriage in the first 2 yrs beacuse the expectations r so high in the first few yrs from each as we hv seen in the movies in the young age.
Now I am married for 21 yrs and I can very happily say that I was really wise to not commit that mistake.
To be able to respect and love people around us is a very important part of spiritual progress in our life. Yesterday only I had the question, how to develop Prem with Bhagwan, the answer I got start loving people genuinely first at home, caring for them, service mood towards them which Swamiji has repeated many times that this body has been given to us not fr us but for serving others, to make others happy.
Even if u leave this boy there is very little chance u will find another boy where u cd make 2 ends meet better.
The moment we start thinking in terms ki mujhe usse kuch nahi chahiye(I don't need anything from anyone) whether yr husband, yr parents, yr siblings, yr any near ones life will become so simple then u wll not need anything from yr ownself and slowly mein aur mera mit jayega, very difficult but can come with time slowly day by day.
Yours in service
RG
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Namaste
The will of the parent is most important factor which I thing not to be diregarded. What is the reason of unhappiness is not explained. After the separation, even if you get married with any one, you will have the same problem and how long you are going to change your partner. Make a success by developing the intimacy. Once you give the chance or scope to your temporal thinking and feeling, then there is no stoppage. The present marriage is just a temporary alliance for sustaining the life togrther in this life.
Vijay Ghormade
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Dear SS,
After going thru your email, I have noted few things from what you said and what you did not say! You said that both you & your husband are 'Good Friends'. which means the relationship is not bitter. Normally a girl is never in a hurry to get out of wedlock if she is chaste and dutiful to her husband. Socially a girl is not given respect if she is seperated from her husband, especially when she is still young. She is eyed with doubt in any social get togethers/ functions.
As you are keen on getting out of the marriage, the only possibilities I see is that
1)Either the marriage is not consummated
2)You feel (for whatever the reasons in the past before marriage) one of you had got involved into a romantic relationship which is not making THIS marriage work
Your parents are right and from their perspective, socially they have to face questions from the society after performing their duty. I also practice Palmistry-Facereading-astrology as hobby and have seen many cases. If you and your husband are 'Friends' and if either of you are not having any other relationship(Pre or Post Marriage), then you can still work out a solution.
I have already gone beyond acceptable limits on public forum.
Best Wishes,
DSK Rao
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Namaste.
My simple suggestion to all of you will be to try (non-alcoholic) spiritual studies (Ch 2 Bhagvat Gita will be a good start) and seek spiritual guidance individually until the matters are resolved. Being honest to yourself is the most important thing.
If you two are real friends you have made it easier already so why worry? What's the difference between good friends and good partners? Not many! Maybe you both have high expectations of each other and you need to lower them both physically & mentally.
As a married couple we know there is no perfect couple in the world. Hence we are encouraged to pray to Ram Sita, Radha Krishn, Shiv Parvati. Try some prayers, yoga, meditations, scripture readings and see.....
Best wishes in the difficult journey of life.....
BalMukund Bhala.
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Pranaam to all,
I am responding to a multiple of posts in this one mail
Beginning with the one addressing the problem of marriage
that is not working out, while I believe you ar the best person
to decide, there are some things that do not quite make sense.
For one, friendship is an integral part of marriage.
Husband and wife both perform the role of friend to each other too.
So, if you both feel you have found a friend in each other, then
that should actually be a factor in strengthening your marriage,
not a by product of ending it.
I agree with what some sadhaks have said in this forum that the
idea opf marriage has gotten misunderstood over time and today
it is a case of what one can get of value out of a relationship (not
just marriage).
Value based concerns now override our moral based concerns,
a major factor in the deteriorating morality all around.
but morality being what it is, it cannot be imposed by its very nature.
It has to be voluntary, meaning a call from within for it to work
Once the call is heeded, it requires work to be done on the part
of the sadhak to make it fruitful.
One of the consequences of this is that children aer frequently blamed
for not obeying their parents, without going ionto the reasons why that
is so. When they see the lives being led by their parents, they don't
want to end up like that and thereore they don't listen.
Would you take advise on running a business from a TATA or
from a failed businessman?
The obvious answer is TATA, since we base our reasoning on the
results and not on the method, even though the failed business man
may have used fair tactics and still failed.
And one must not forget that Parents are human too
they too can make mistakes and the child may have to live with for
the rest of their live, unless some turn of luck helps them.
We read many cases of fathers and daughters, mothers and sons
and what not illicit relations being involved in incestous relations.
Would it have been right for the child to obey its parents or guardians
in such a case? Obviously no.
So I don't agree with Mr. Vyas' statement that he has yet to find a
single example from history of mankind, where an ultimate loss
has occurred to a child by being obedient to its parents..!
And yet at the start he says that Unless the wishes of parents
are such that parents incur a sin thereby, it is duty of children
to obey them.
So the direction to obey is subject to Dharma.
If its against Dharma, one is free to disobey, not otherwise
This poses another problem.
Parents are supposed to be wiser by the greater years of experience.
So How does a child decide whether what they are saying is dharmically
correct or not?
Is the child to assume that he/She can be wiser than its own parents?
We have had cases like that (Example of Shri Prahlad)
But we cannot expect that it is so in every case.
Which brings us back to square one.
Should One Obey Their Parent's Wishes at All Times?
We do not exactly live in times where elders are role models
fro the next generation.
The western countries made an attempt at rectifying this situation by
taking away children from abusive parents and putting them in foster homes.
Some of those cases were successful, most were not
The bond between a child and its biological parents cannot be broken
without psychological consequences. And if the biological parents are also the ones who nourish and bring one up from childhood, then the bond is much stronger, and going against their wishes puts even greater stress on the person who has to make such a decision.
The solution is to go back to the roots of the problem.
How it started, why it started, what one wants and how one can reconcile to a solution that is as near to Dharma as possible if not fully dharmic.
This requires that communicaton lines be open between parents and children.
Even if it means you have to do it at this stage of your Life.
Both you and your husband have to sit together first with each other, then each with their parents, then with their in-laws and finally all together.
It calls for a lot of work, yes, but unless you are all clear as to what you want and the reasons thereof, any solution may just be a half hearted attempt at a solution that may not last.
If you can also involve a person that is respected by both families,
all the more better. But without total honesty, A solution does not seem possible.
My apologies If I have offended anyone,
Pranaam
With best wishes,
from
Rahul,
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Dear Friends,
It Sounds nice to say We are good friends but we cannot live together as husband and wife.
Please do not feel that you are doing a Favour to your Parents by continuing this relationship.
Not that i am against so-called Breaking The Marriage.
Please understand that lots can be done before being at that,
You two will also argue that we have done enough,
Please Analyse things once more,
CAN WE NOT MAKE THIS MARRIAGE SUCCESFUL?WHY NOT?
Make a Very Sinciere effort ,
I am personally confident YOU WILL succeed
BE TRUE TO YOUSELF<NOT TO PLEASE YOUR PARENTS
nS
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hello
Try to take guidance from God
if you do not get an answer
try to take Answer from your inner-self
during this time keep praying to God to guide you
say
HariBol HariBol HariHariBol
Badri Taneja
-------------------------------------------
until you do not tell the inner and true reason for your dissatisfaction, nothing that I say will be a good as on knowing you true reason for lack of satisfaction.
HINDI
jab tak paraspar asantushti kaa kaaran nahee kahenge (bataayenge), koee bhee baat kahanaa utanaa uchit naheen hogaa, jitanaa kaaran pataa honepar kahanaa.
astu.
savinay,
saadhaka.
-------------------------------------------
Hari Om
Parents are always wiser than children. Unless the wishes of parents are such that parents incur a sin thereby, it is duty of children to obey them.
Your statements conceal the core reasons more than they reveal. You have not given reasons as to why you both can't be happy as married couple , at the same time, you have also stated that you both have found 'a good friend in each other' ! Marriage is not some ' platform' where the key determinator is 'happiness' ! Why your husband can not be happy after an arranged marriage which took place after factoring all such things? Why you can't be happy?
It is ego ...coupled with no respect for the institution called 'marriage' on either side.There are no 'suitability criterias' for a marriage to function..each must adjust to other. Ego does not let that do. "Trying to be something that we are not" is too vague and inexplicable excuse. What kind of that 'something' is other than 'actual' or can be other than actual? We are not married to our own concepts, thoughts, personality, likes and dislikes..we are
married to some one else's concepts, thoughts, personality, likes and
dislikes..! Hence marriage is called 'adjustment' by two individual souls. Else it is ego...with scant respect for marriage, and inflexibility on both sides. Of course, a good prospect of being able to live without each other only adds fuel
to the fire.
Good enough upto that, but your parents do not see the situation as such, and hence perhaps they have advised you. See the future situation as they see...!
Just do not end the marriage in a hurry. Wait..! Damn care about.. "even if that means spoiling another persons life???? (my husband) as i know he will not be happy in this marriage." ! He was agreeable to marry you 2 years back, he happily married, and now if inspite of your making an effort he is not likely to be happy... then..it is his dilemma not yours. He must sort out the causes of
"not being happy"... not you. You need to wait. Why you too are not happy?
Because he is not happy? No...that is no yardstick.
"Finding a good friend in each other" is not why a marriage gets performed.
Still, now that 'good friend' has been discovered in each other, efforts need be made to convert that 'friendship' into 'marital love'. What distinguishes the two states? Why 'good friendship' can't mean 'marriage' when marriage has already taken place? This is not clear from your posting.
If he has some other choice in mind, he has to throw that away. Where is the option to him? Similarly you have to do, if that is the case. Where is the option to you? Remember: Human Life is not some pleasure ground..it is always a place where you have to do your 'duty' ...duty is not always pleasant. Both must adjust. You have to go through the challenges caused by 'bondages of karma'
..running away from them will invariably bring more tough circumstances. In movies, you may find solutions and options, but in practical life..it is different. Your parents know that.
Hence give some time...wait ! Even otherwise you are reconciled to
separation...get mentally detached but still do as your parents have advised. I am yet to find a single example from history of mankind, where an ultimate loss has occurred to a child by being obedient to its parents..!
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
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Dear Sadaks,
If your husband does not beat you, your husband needs counseling and you are to stick with your husband, listen to him only, obey only to him and NOBODY else as per Stree (lady ) Dharam. Deviation from this you are NOT performing your Karmas that of past birth and as of now and you may have several births henceforth to be born as human.
B.Sathyanarayan
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Namaste
The will of the parent is most important factor which I thing not to be diSregarded. What is the reason of unhapinness is not explained. After the separation, even if you get married with any one, you will have the same problem
and how long you are going to change your partner. Make a success by developing
the intimacy. Once you give the chance or scope to your temporal thinking and
feeling, then there is no stoppage. The present marriage is just a temporary
alliance for sustaining the life togrther in this life.
Vijay Ghormade
--------------------------------------------
It is your Ego which has decided that both of you are not suited for each other.
By nature this Ego is blind and has 100 children consisting of Strong Dislikes
as one of them. There is a verse in 3rd. Chaapter of Geeta which reads as '
Indriyasya Indriyarthesu Ragasweshau Vyavshthitau; Taayor Vasam Na Agachhet, Tau
hi ashya Paripanthinau. So you have become thee victim of your own Raga and
Dwesha.
It is not that you have not to obey your parent's wishes; it calls for an
effort from within to correct your own situation.. Without doing this, if you
just take divorce, next is likely to be worse than the present one. Marriages
are made in Heaven and only registereed on Earth. It is not possible to give
more advice than this from a distance. Best thing is to approach a Saintly
Person and work out positive inward changes.
Jayantilal Shah
-------------------------------------------------------
Your Paents want two tings (a) that you do not end the marriage and (b) keep
trying to make the present marriage a success. You can obey your parents even
if you disagree with them and continue to remain unhappy if and only if your
husband agrees. I he insists on ending the marriage immediately or soon, you
have no chance of obeying your parents. Talk to your husband, if he is willing
not to end the marriage formally till your parents are alive. If he arees, it is
fine. Buit if he insists on ending the marriage immediately or soon for reasons
of his own or his parents, explaun that to your parents and tell them that in
the given situation you can prolong the marriage for a while that may involve
litigation and defending the marriage in the court. Maybe under that
circumstances your Parents may not insist on your continuing with the marriage,
But, you must at the same time, do and offer something that would make them
happy and feel comfortable that do ot have to worry about the future of their
daughter.
Basudeb Sen
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Dear SS, Namaste!!!
You are 32 and married so you can make the decisions which are just and fair for
all parties involved in this matter of staying together or separation from
marriage.
Not so much as duty to parents as you are wife and share life with your
husband, but as your parents, your well wisher, whose advice has some value as
it comes from their experience, you should give it fair chance to work. You
will never know this if you don't give a try!
You and husband must give everything you got to make it a success as 2 years of
marriage is not enough time to know each other.
Please don't rush to any decision and tell your husband also that you should try
hard to make it work as much as possible.
One principle I have discovered is if you can weather this storm of unhappy
phase going on right now in your life, you will surely find that
"One cannot find a better spouse than one already has". I am confident of this,
provided you both have a mind-set that both are interested in making it work and
not want to run away from each other. You will also discover that its a small
price to pay to weather it than to run away and possibly regret later on! What
helps is the firm conviction that it can work! And you already have not ill will
for each other, so you are way ahead of the game!
You can also go to marriage counselor, some friends, read spiritual books,
involve some elderly people other than parents who can see objectively and
advice impartially!
Having said this, I will add: If after sincere try by giving your best,
situation doesn't improve, then, you can go for the mutual and amicable
separation remaining friends forever. For this to happen, you must accept the
situation your are in now, and assume witnessing stand, speak little less, avoid
talking, walk away from each other when angry or upset, but do talk at length in
normal situations to find out what works and what doesn't.
Whatever you do please consider interests of all parties involved, yourself,
husband, his family members if involved, or are reasons for your discomforts,
and your parents, in all decisions!
Above all, please pray God to give you the courage to face it and make it. You
may discover that it is strong egos that is destroying it, or images you have
for each other that doesn't allow you to relate with each other! We relate
through images we have for each other and about ourselves that destroys the
marriages!
I wish you the very best that Life has to offer.
Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------
My Child,
I am distressed to read your post, really distressed I am. Your problem is not
about following parents' advice but adjusting with your life partner or the one
with whom you chose to live the life. I opened this post as I thought it is
about Pitr vaakya paripaalana and such silly concept.
A few years back my daughter had the same problem and I did not force my will on
her. In fact, I have given her good education and brought her up in nice
environment. I was and am still, confident she knows her life better than I know
her life. She was of the same age as yours when she decided not to compromise. I
still venture some suggestion.
You have not explained to me where the non compatibility arises. Is it
subordination or Pati-Patni our woh? You do not have to explain that; but you
search yourself for the answer. Is the non compatibility irrevocable? Is the
chasm so deep and wide. My child, these are issues you have to decide and
determine. Your parents are definitely in a better position than I and fellow
members of this group to give suggestions. But ultimately you are player facing
the ball.
From your English, I am sure you had good exposition and well qualified to take
wise decission. Take it. According to me, the decission must be yours, without
parental influence. BUT, before you jump "out" decide and plan your future. Be
sure what you are going to do with your life in future. Do not let others
(including your parents) toy with your life. If there is no defect in your
husband, and none in you why the disparity arrives? Think about it and then act.
God bless you my child; I wish you all the best
Krishna
---------------------------------------
Dear Friends,
It Sounds nice to say We are good friends but we cannot live together as husband
and wife.
Please do not feel that you are doing a Favour to your Parents by continuing
this relationship.
Not that i am against So.called Breaking The Marriage.
Please understand that lots can be done before being at that,
You two will also argue that we have done enough,
Please Analyse things once more,
CAN WE NOT MAKE THIS MARRIAGE SUCCESFUL?WHY NOT?
Make a Very Sinciere effort ,
I am personally confident YOU WILL succeed
BE TRUE TO YOUSELF<NOT TO PLEASE YOUR PARENTS
nS
--------------------------------------------
Caught between a rock and hard spot. i.e. listening to your parents versus your brains and heart. At the end of the day - it's you and your husband lives and if both are unhappy now only after a couple of years of marriage, just imagine what might be in awaiting you. One can make decision only known facts.
If we are to use the essence of the teaching of the Gita, face with a challenge deal with it and move.
Mangal Deolal
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According to me it is not necessary to obey your parents wish because you both
are adult now .
aruna singh
------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram
Namasteji, Along with the responses you receive, it may also be helpful for you
to review the following -
How to Lead a Household Life -
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html
Also please review responses received to similar questions in the past
Advice Sought for Troubled Marriage
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3571
On being a Chaste Wife
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4066
Seeking Advice on Dilemma Regarding Life Partner
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3623
Gita Talk Moderators,
Ram Ram
-----------------------------------------
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Ram Ram
--------------------------------------------
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