Shree Hari Ram Ram
This brings a closure to this post. thank you all.
gita talk moderators, ram ram
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Interesting.......Question is who are we? and who is God?
SJ
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very very enlightening posts ,vyas nb,and pratap bhatt bhai --you people have explained god who we are in really very nice way ,thanks .jai shree krishnaÂ
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Hari Om
We get a lot of inputs from Scriptures and Realised Souls, Saints and Sages about our Eternal Father, Param Pita Parameshwar. To His children, viz to us, the most important thing is not as to HOW IS HE but is that HE IS OURS and WE ARE HIS . A child does not look at the traits of mother, does not know as to how is she of him/her...a child has no doubt , however, that MOTHER IS MINE.
You can't get peace till you get Him. Like you He too is very eager to meet with you. You may forget Him but He never forgets you, He never disowns you. This world (Jagat) has been made by Paramatma (Jagdish) for you (Jeeva), but you have been made by Paramatma for Himself. Hence in this Jagat, whatever happens with reference to you is ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY for your turning towards Him, rushing towards Him. All Laws of Mother Nature operating in this Jagat are for inviting your attention and for attracting you towards Him. Paramatma becomes very happy when you say: O Lord..I am yours. He becomes very happy just as a father becomes very happy when child claims rights over him.
It is endeavour of Paramatma and His Laws that whenever you connect yourself with Jagat, He ensures your disconnection with Jagat. Why? So that you may get attracted to Yoga (permanent connection with Paramatma). He never let's you get peace, happiness while you are worldly. Why? So that you may turn towards Him. He gives you sorrows. Why? So that you may renounce the desire for the world. If you take one step towards Him, He takes 10 .Why? So that you may unite with your Father faster. He strengthens your belief in Him. Why? So that you do not despair. If reciprocates to your striving as you see Him in your striving. Why? So that you remain enthusiastic and not lose focus.
List is endless. Everything which is done by Nature, everything which happens in this world, every Law and provision, every incidence, every situation, every circumstance, every status...everything has ONLY ONLY one goal: So that Jeeva connects with Jagdish and disconnects with Jagat.
Says Lord in 9:10: Under My superintendence Nature has created this world to be EVERCHANGING.
Why? So that Jeeva may rush towards loving arms of his Eternal Father !
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
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Who are we?Mostly we are parasites born on and brought up by earth,spend life and perish here.The most significant thing about us is that despite being insignificant in the universe,we have acquired significant knowledge and working capacity.All that we lack is harmonious attitude and good manners.Our achievements had been and are great.As regards who is god,I prefer not to reduce His stature with my humble words,nevertheless,I suggest you to analyse a picture of Lord Krishna as a central figure playing flute and various gopis acting to His charm.It was perhaps the same thing told to Devi Meerabai by Guru Ramanandji at Benarus.He alone is the male,all other are gopis.
subhashtewari
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Hari Om
Hey Humble Saadhakjee ! Hey Mahapurush !! Aapke message hriday ko gadgad kar dete hai ! Mera sadhuvaad!!
Ek varnan Prabhu ka ye bhi hai ki Ve anaadi hain, Ve Prakruti se pare hain, Purushottam hain, sadaiva Samata main sthir rahate hain, Deendayaal hain, Deenanath hain, Sarva Samartha hain, Sarvagya hain, Param Dayaalu hain, Keshav hain, Bhagat vatsal hain, Paramatma hain, Parampitaa hain, Parameshwar hain, Gopaal hain, Govind hain, Giridhar hain, Param paavan hain, ...! Swamiji ki kitaabo main ye varnan bhi to aaya hee hoga naa, Maanyavar Mahoday ? Swamiji ki kitaabo main Bhagwaan ke svabhaav ka varnan bhi aaya hoga. Aaya hoga na Sir? To kyon nahin ham usee se kaam chalale ? Shrimaanji- Bhakti kyaa hoti hai? Bhagwaan ki leelaao ka gungaan bhi bhakti ka ek roop hai. Ye baat theek hai ki Jeeva or Jagdish dono varnanateet hai parantu ye baat bhi to theek hai ki Bhagwaan ke SAGUN SAKAAR roop ka varnan shashro main huaa hai, khoob huva hai, jam kar huvaa hai ! Kyon huva hai jab Bhagvaan varnanateet hain ? Aapne Swamiji ka ek lekh padhaa hai- 'VARNANATEET KA VARNAN' ? To Bhaiyyaji - Jaise Param Shraddheya Swamiji Maharaj ne 'Varnanateet' maanate huve bhi varnan kiya, vaise hi aap bhi varnanateet maante huve varnan karle to kyaa eitraaj hai ? Bhakti bhi ho jaayegi. Kyaa Jachee ?
ENGLISH TRANSLATION:
One description of God is also that He is sanatan, eternal, beyond Nature, ever positioned in Equanimity, superior to humans, the most kind and benevolent, all powerful, all knowing, the protector and controller of universe...! Has not He been described so in the books of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Maharaj accordingly? There is SAGUN SAKAAR form of Paramatma also. Scriptures are full of singing His glories and describe in many ways. One form of Bhakti is also 'singing His glories/deliberating/talking about Him' !! Even Swamiji has written an article - Describing the Undescribable !! Isn't it? So what is wrong, Sir, if we also describe Him the way we want to, inspite of He continuing to remain beyond description? Pranaams
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
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God!!!!!!!!!!!!
hello from nyc in t he blizzard
LOve these replies today I am Very grateful for the dedication of members
moksh
Sophia
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Dear Ones, Namaste!
As our humble Sadhakji has pointed, God cannot be described in words, can never be an object of our perception by means of sense organs, and mind.
Why, because if God is such an object, it has to have a name, if so then God becomes limited like any another object of our experience, which cannot be the case!
Based on our own experience of ourselves, if we eliminate all names(son, father, mother, doctor, engineer, husband, wife, worker, boss etc etc), then what reemains is pure EXISTENCE, which itself is Consciousness, Knowingness!
Above all this Consciousness is not limited by the objects appearing in it(as pointed out above)! SO, Pure and undivided TOTAL Existence(devoid of names or all names included) in our experience is CONSCIOUSNESS! These words also are merely pointers as is word GOD!
Thus, Who are we? Based on above explanation for satisfying mind, we say WE ARE, we cannot say who by saying this or that names, simply WE ARE!
Again "WE" doesn't refer to individual body-mind organism, rather, points to experience of BEING.
similarly Who is GOD? God is just a name to communicate the inner experience of BEING CONSCIOUS, which is impersonal, unlimited by any name!
Since BEING CONSCIOUS is always present in Waking, Dream, Sleep states of our being, it is our nature, our REALITY, and thus called CONSCIOUSNESS!
See that all objects we know arise or appear and disappear just as waves in the OCEAN or WATER, but only WATER remains! Such is GOD!
Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt
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Hari SharaNam,
Who am "I"? I will let the questioner seek its answer by himself/herself. Knowing "I" does not guarantee knowing the "GOD" but knowing "GOD", nothing remains unkown, whole integral system is known.
So, Who is "GOD"? It can/must not be defined by the imagination of limited capacities of the human minds.
Vedanta Darshan, in very beginning, defines the GOD as "the one from whom the world is created, sustained & dissolved " ( JANMAADASYA YATAH ; BrahmSutra - 1/1/2). This definition is not the creation/imagination of the author's mind although the author is beyond the realized souls. This definition is based upon the scriptures (SHAASTRAYONITVAAT ; BrahmSutra - 1/1/3).
Taittiriya Upanishad -3/1 also defines "GOD" as the one from whom everything is created, maintained and dissolved.
YATO VAA IMAANI BHOOTAANI JAAYANTE | YEN JAATAANI JEEVANTI | YATPRAYANTYABHISAMVISHANTI | TATVIJIGAASAVA | TATBRAHMETI |
Srimad Bhagavad PuraaNa also starts with the same word "JANMAADASYA YATAH" (1/1/1) to offer prayer to the GOD.
Patanjali Ji MaharaaJ, in his Yog Darshan, just after mentioning the Sutra "ISWARPRANIDHAANAADVAA -1/23" (i.e. one can also attain the goal by surrendering to the God), says "... PURUSHHA VISHESHA ISHWAR-1/24" i.e. GOD is VISHESHA PURUSHHA. Please note the word "VISHESHHA". Bhagavad Gita calls GOD as UTTAM/PARAM PURUSHHA/ATMAA/BRAHM (10/12,13/12, 15/17-18).
Kapil Ji Maharaaj, in his Sankhya Darshan (3/55-57), also says ISWAR is the one which directs/controls PRAKRRITI thats why ISHWAR is called SARVAVIT SARVAKARTAA.
May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey
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Question: who are we?
Answer : You are being (Is-ness, Existence) only, nothing else. [hamaaraa swaroop sattaamaatra hai. maanavamaatrake kalyaanake liye page 149].
Question: who is God?
Answer : Whosoever speaks about God [paramaatmaa], only speaks of what is learnt from others only as One who has realized God, can't describe [varnanaateet kaa varnan naheen kiyaa jaa sakataa] Remember "jahaan varnan hai, vahaan tattva naheen hai aur jahaan tattva hai, vahaan varnan naheen hai." [saadhan-sudhaa-sindhu page 58].
Humbly,
Saadhaka.
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Dear sadaks,
We are Jeevathumas (Numeral but finite) and God is Paramathuma.(Singular and infinite)
B.Sathyanarayan
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Hari Om
Great Divine Question befitting this great Divine G T Forum !
Who are we ? We are children of God. Who is God ? God is our Father- The eternal father. Our ONLY OWN.
We are tired travellers and God is final destination.
We are water in clouds, rivers, ponds , atmosphere, gutters, pipes etc and God is ocean. We must reach ocean because till we do not reach there we can not be peaceful. Till we reach ocean, we must flow /change forms and must remain peace-less and sorrowful ! Where is happiness without peace? We want happiness, only happiness, absolute happiness.
We are players and God is Umpire and Captain .
We are strivers (sadhaks) and God is Goal (Sadhya) !
We are students and God is Teacher.
We are dumbs and God is Jaggery.
We are thirsty and God is Water.
We are Purushas and God is Purushottam.
We are actors and God is Director.
We are atmas and God is Paramatma.
We are wives and God is husband.
We are SARVAM and God is VASUDEV.
We are pebbles and God is Himalaya.
We are clouds and God is Sky.
We are rays and God is the Sun.
We are body and God is Heart.
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
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Who am I? … What is God? …
Interesting indeed …
We have to understand one thing before we step forward here. A question raises only due to a need and will wield its authority until the need is mitigated. It would not subside until then, no matter what rationale we can amass around the same! Therefore, no question can ever be "answered"! Also, no question ever "exists" on its own either!! Therefore, it is wise to look at the need that triggered the questions rather than wasting resources on the questions themselves.
What makes the current questions all the more interesting, rather intriguing?! The underlying need remains mystical from one's appreciation.
Who am I? The need for this question is to identify oneself in order to interact with others. Such a need keeps varying in its texture and demands. But, almost always it is rooted in some other need! Also, the very identification depends on alien entities rather than oneself. How can such a needy and dependent state of existence can ever sustain?! Such states are born only to decay and die. Of course, new needs originate from the carcass perpetually - Sasyamiva pachyate martyah sasyamivaajaayate punah! Eventually, the question remains "unanswered" as ever ...
Who am I? Rather everything knows its answer. If at all I know anything, it should be the "I" as such! How can this "I" know anything else without knowing Itself?! And, yet … THAT is the last thing one can ever explain for sure! Why? Because, the very notion of explanation is hinged on entities other than oneself!! Therefore, even if the whole universe is explained THAT cannot be!!! Therefore IT IS THE ONLY known ever and is known even to the most ignorant of all; and yet, it remains unknown to the most intelligent ever - Yasyaamatam tasya matam matam yasya na veda sah! Why? Everything is predisposed to seek outward rather than inward - Paraanchi khaani vyatriNaat svayambhooh !!
What is God? The question is self-deceptive! Who can know that?! By definition God ought to be Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient transcending all the dominions of existence - time-space, matter-energy, knowledge-ignorance or any other - categorically. Then how can any fathom what THAT could be when all these cosmic dominions put together cannot even have a glimpse of the same??!! SURELY, IT IS AN IMPOSSIBLE QUESTION TO ANSWER. But, why then this question is the most intriguing as well as ancient to the human mind???!!!
Who is God? Again, a question has no rationale for its own basis except that it believes to stand on a need. To start with, the body-mind cluster that is baffled with its own limitations in its existential loci starts appreciating the fact that its paths are verily carved by many external forces acting upon it simultaneously and perpetually. Then it lands into a deeper level of baffling when it realizes that every entity is subjected to the same limitations. It starts wondering then ... Who could be operating these entities to act the way they do! What force could be binding these to be what they are?!What intelligence is bridging communication between them??!! In whose belly this infinitude of existence survives as is???!!! Who ensures integrity in their existence as well as in their transactions????!!!!. The mystery deepens as one "progresses".
Again, why one entertains this question? Why a Duryodhana wants to bind a KrishNa, THE FREEDOM as such?! The reson is simple. One is paranoid of one's very existence due to the uncertainties in one's transactions with the world around. One wants to settle this uncertainty positively. That is a survival need. No uncertainty can let any being sleep tight! As one remains utterly unsuccessful to keep one's loci of living for certain, the question keeps haunting from within ... who is this fellow? who is this God??
Kenshitam patati preshitam manah kena praaNah prathamah praiti yuktah |
Keneshitaam vaachamimaam vadandti chakshuh shrotram ka vu devo yunakti ||
Unless the needs - to identify oneself and to understand what governs transactions around - are mitigated, the questions remain engraved in one's consciousness. Only when one starts appreciating the self-effulgence of the "I", one could retard one's query "Who am I?". "I" was, is and will be forever independent of the objective relations one would ever perceive!! Similarly, only when one realizes the potential of an all-pervasive universal reality, the question "What is God?" starts fading from the horizons.
But the questions ought to and will remain in their subtle forms till the "I" and "God" remain discrete to each other! The need to question this discreteness further is to mitigate the very needs we started with.
Is there anything that is devoid of an "I"? Nothing can ever exist without this self-manifestation. It is fundamental for the very existence. If one "I" is different from another, who else is there to establish the obvious and unbroken communication between the two? When nothing exists without "I" how can this third party be other than "I"? Really speaking, what is this "I"?! Can anyone be isolated as such ... as some "one"?? Everything across the universe is a single monolithic existence from which not even an atom can set itself apart!! Then why identity? and, what uncertainty?? When no identities are needed and when no uncertainties can ever exist ... how can there be a question "Who am I?" and "What is God?"? ... THAT is everything one can ever fathom and beyond ... Pratibodhaviditam matam amritam ... I AM THAT ... Aham Brahmaasmi ... THAT IS EVERYTHING ... Sarvam khalu idam brahmaa ...
Till then … Who am I?! … What is God??!! … What is all these???!!! … let us roll as the questions demand … we will roll till we realize we can opt not to … we will roll till we opt NOT TO!!!
Respects.
Naga Narayana.
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Shree Hari
Ram Ram
18th January, 2012, Wednesday
Maagh Krishna Dashami, Budhvar, Vikram Samvat 2068
God is Waiting for Us
The curtain that is seen between God and us, the distance that is seen, the separation that is perceived, is in fact our own creation, not God's doing, as God is Omnipresent and is present at all times. Not only that, He is closer than our assumed sense of My-ness. He is present As-is even in the most fallen and degraded ones as well. Therefore spiritual aspirants must want that they should accept their Beloved within themselves, and become free from all anxiety or worries "nischint". When besides God there is acceptance of no other entity, then an aspirant will attain his Beloved within himself. However, as long as within remains the assumption - "I am the body" till then he will attain nothing but the world.
He who sees His Beloved in other individuals, in saints and great souls, in scriptures etc, he will have to experience separation from his Beloved. However, he who sees his Beloved within himself, he does not have to suffer the separation with his beloved. However close you may see your Beloved when seen as separate, there will most definitely be feeling of separation. However, when the Beloved is seen as inseparable (within us) then an eternal affinity is established. As long as the aspirant's inner senses perceive the existence of many, till then he cannot experience an eternal affinity with his Beloved, rather he wanders from place to place in this world to attain his Beloved.
An aspirant should never feel a sense of hopelessness with the real essence (tattva), because the aspirant has complete eligibility, rights and potential for realization of the supreme truth. It is a rule that he who can enjoy worldly pleasures, he can also turn away from the world and experience bliss. He who can develop attachment and aversion in the world, he can also renounce attachment and aversion and be able to truly love as well. He who can engage in sense pleasures, he can also renounce pleasures and be able to attain "Yog" (equanimity). He who has the ability to adopt, also has the ability to denounce.
Man endowed with desires can never love anyone. Therefore a man of desires cannot be a true believer in God. Man becomes a true believer in God, when in his eyes besides the one Beloved (God) –nothing else remains. Such a true believer attains Love by God's grace. Although God's grace is showering equally on all beings, then too that grace is only experienced when man entirely becomes only God's. Not accepting the existence of anyone else, is becoming God's.
Besides the One God, there is no one else who is my Beloved (Lover). When besides God when we love anyone else, then that love destroys "sanhaar" you and the other. This is not love, it is attachment. It is only the Love for one's own country that destroys "sanhaar" other countries; attachment to one's own organization / group that destroys "sanhaar" other organizations; attachment to one's own race, caste, type, "jaati" that destroys other race, caste, type, "jaati".
If besides the one God, if all other wants are renounced, then God will come without our calling and the world will disappear for you without trying. Hope of His attainment in the future is a mistake. One must serve others. Let there not be the slightest bit of affinity with the body and the world - this is true "renunciation" and besides That One God, do not accept the existence of anyone else, not even the slightest bit - this itself is Love.
He who is filled with desire, that being alone cannot love. Because desires are of the world and Love is of God. Man filled with desires is a worshipper of worldly sense objects. Whereas a man filled with Love, is a worshipper of God. The worshipper of the world becomes dependent and the worshipper of God becomes independent. (to be continued)
From "Sant Samaagam" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji
If in doubt regarding the translation, please read the original Hindi message by Swamiji.
FOR MESSAGE IN HINDI PLEASE VISIT Date : 16th January, 2012 "BHAGWAAN HAMAARI PRATIKSHAA KAR RAHE HAI"
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