Saturday, December 31, 2011

[gita-talk] Re: Clarification - Is Krishna the Supreme Lord?

 


All respected gurujanos,

I live in USA & my son who is born here had some clarification on lord krishna if you all can guide him really would be a blessings from you all

He thinks since krishna was born & had a history of father -mother & also he died at 125 years is he consider as a suprem lord or its like because he was a miracle type people made him like a lord?
because my son says he would definatly believe in lord shiva & vishnu as supreme lord because they are not born or had history of dying, so he thinks they are lord, so please let me know on this.
He also believes in lord Ganesh. since he is son of lord shiva but for some reason confused in krishna

Rashmi Patel

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-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Re Ch7: 18 comment by Jayadayal Goyandaka:'...By calling the Jnani His
own self, the lord shows there is no difference whatsoever between the
man of wisdom and Himself . Such a devote is the same as God, and God is
the same as the devotee; there is absolute identity between the two."
Comments by Swamiji also refer to the Lover and the Beloved as being one
re this Shloka. Also this is reiterated by Swamiji in a comment re Ch 18:55.
Referring to Ch19 see comment by Jayadayal Goyandaka: The whole creation
is a manifestation of God , there is nothing apart from God: to perceive
this truth directly once and for all , and to remain ever established in
it is to worship Him realizing "All this is God".

Re 'Then He said in chapter 9:27 or 28 about His Bhaktas ..I am in them
, they are in Me..why only Bhaktas? What is devoid of Him? Why not
others?' In the light of the above, how do you separate, the Lover and
the Beloved who are one?

But in spite of all this the most potent point is "All this is God" or
as per Vaasishtha all is Brahman.
Although my original post was as far as I can tell ignored, that's cool
I can handle that, but in the light of this discussion one is locked
into ones belief, so Krishna is supreme Lord as is Jesus or any God you
believe in, as Vivekananda said if you believe something to be true it
is true, but.....

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike

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Hari Om

Why should ocean be blamed for ignorance, when it is the wave that is stating ' Vasudev Sarvam' and hence "I (wave) am Vasudev (Ocean) " because "All else (Sarvam) is Vasudev" ? No one can ever render the ocean (Param Pita Parameshwar) to be at fault..as regards what 'wave' is considering itself to be. That is unacceptable.

Then comes the distinction between 'ocean' and 'wave' ...ACTUALLY , there is neither 'ocean' nor 'wave' ..it is all along an element called 'water' (Vasudev) !!!
Where is 'Sarvam' actually... there is ONLY "Vasudev" !!!

What is surrender under 7:19? Here in this verse.. Surrender (prapadyate) is annihilation of ego, identity... This surrender is qualitatively different than that which is referred in 18:66 , there it is surrender on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS ! Surrender in 7:19 therefore is not induced by any sorrows, or helplessness ..it is by a Jnani Bhakta (Premi) not by an aart or artharthi or jigyaasu Bhakta.

This entire Jagat has its roots in individualised ego( there are as many Jagats as are minds/egos) ...once that ego goes, what remains behind is VASUDEV...! What else can remain behind?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Dear Moderator:
You cannot abrubtly stop a real valid discussion on a topic
just because you feel uncomfortable.
I also live in USA since 40 years and this is a valid question many of
our children here and also in India have.
Many in India are afraid to ask, but in US they ask.
For this, we need to give basic education about Hindu Dharma
as also all that is taught in Srimad Bhagavad Gita, in simple language
to our children and also the adults must study.

I am glad Sri Rashmi Patel expressed this question.
(Balaji, we cannot publish links, kindly include the pertinent content under this topic)
Sri Krishna is not only an Avatharsa of Vishnu, but a Divine form of Avathara with all Supreme powers even during the Avathara.

Please explain to your children that God as we worship is Paramathma who is also referred to as
Para Brahmam, Parameswara, Para Sakthi, Sri Narayana and also as Sri Sri Krishna.
Pramathma in His own mercy takes the various forms, manifestations and Avatharas
when He / She will appear as a manifestation and also gets a days when He/She goes back to the original.
So, Sri Krishna being born or going away after 125 years is only as the manifestation and
Sri Krishna as He shows his real Viswaroopa, always exists and never ceases to exist;
so also Sri Ganesha, Sri Rama and Sri Siva and Lakshmi and Parvathi - in the various forms.

Bala N. Aiyer

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This topic has come more than few times
Can we suggest the moderator
How many is enough to make move
Perhaps the author of the question guide
Is it enough or more needed
Ths
Dinesh Patel
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Dear Ones, Namaste!
In all humility, I would like to make observations on "Vasudev Servameti" (BG:7/19), referring to dialogues between Sadhaka, and Niteeshji!
I think in the context that we need to understand this statement is important. "All that is here is Brahman - Consciounsess", "Brahmeva jiva na par ( Jiva is verily Brahman, not other)" are statements in Upanishadas, equivalent of BG 7/19 and made from the absolute point of view, from God's perspective so to speak, which is Truth.
Obviously, if we take any "being" as individual body-mind organism, then he/she cannot be Vasudeva because it is already a false stand being taken as an individual he/she is not! Like wave cannot claim to be the ocean as long as it really believes it is separate wave having independent existence apart from Ocean. However, we need to understand that wave is ignorance on the part of Ocean considering itself a limited entity, wave, like most do.
Ocean(as wave) can realize even as it remains as wave form that it is Ocean only all the way, and it itself doesn't even exist except in ignorance! So, then wave is verily Ocean unlimited. It is Ocean waving, playing Divine Drama Leela!

Upon realization on the part of the identified consciousness(soul/Jiva) that he/she doesn't even have existence apart from Supreme Consciousness or regains the lost memory of his true nature - swaroopa, individuality gets surrendered and is Vasudev only! There is no individual being at all, only Supreme Consciousness which is ONE BEING in all that IS!
It is important to see that Vasudev servam is Realization only in that body-mind organism, not that it becomes Vasudeva, because IT IS Vasudeva already! There was/is never an Individual entity! This is experiential or anubhutiroopah.
Thus ultimately, anyone realizing that Only God exists in Truth, he/she is only an appearance, not reality, and is as such God only, devoid of any assumed limitations!
When we say being is not Vasudeva, it is because being is not reality, it is assumed limitation, so it has to denied, and that is why we say "being is not Vasudeva, but Vasudeva is all beings".
Thus, Arjuna is also Vasudeva, even in the form he is in upon realization of his true identity!
To me, Sadhaka and Niteeshji are both right from their own perspectives if this is what they meant!

Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

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Dear Rshmi Ji,

I think your son's question is natural and it is only such enquiry one can understand better.
Please tell your son that in Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna and the Supreme (Parabrahman) are used
interchangebly. It becomes abundantly clear in many verses, for example Chapter 4 beginning verses:

4:1
I taught this eternal yoga to Vivasvat.
Vivasvat taught Manu and
Manu taught Ikshvaku.
Vivasvat is the sun; Manu and Ikshvaku are his descendents,
and patriarchs of the famous solar dynasty.

4:2
Thus handed down
in regular succession,
the rajarishis knew this.
(A rajarishi is one who is both a king and a sage).
But over the long course of time
the yoga seems to be lost in the world.
(Over time, the eternal yoga gets cluttered by tradition and
complicated by excessive scholarship; thus, it is practically lost).


Also it is Sri Bhagavaan uvaacha in Bhagavad-Gita; note it is not Krishna Bhagavaan uvaacha or
Bhagavaan Krishna uvaacha! Like when we say alcohol, it means ethanol which gets people high!
Theer are countless other alcohols like Methyl alcohol, iso-propyl alcohol, Retinol (Vitamin A)-
but when you say alcohol, it is ethanol. In this spirit, Bhagavad-Gita uses Bhagavan.
We also say, "Sri Krishna parabrahmane namah".

I am sure your son will also ask even the question which (unfortunately) Arjuna did not ask.
Namely, why was the yoga taught before was lost?
May be our notes in the parenthesis to above 2 shlokas will predict how it was lost.
We recently translated Bhagavad-Gita, especially keeping EVERYBODY in mind.
I co-authored with my nephew who is 31 years younger to me!).
Encourage your son to read it for free on line. Search for newbhagavadgita.

(SORRY KST JI ! WE CANNOT PUBLISH LINKS..... )

“Simple, articulate and accessible, The New Bhagavad-Gita takes a unique approach to present a modern translation of this ancient text.”
N. R. NARAYANA MURTHY, Founder-Chairman and Chief Mentor, Infosys Technologies Ltd.

“The New Bhagavad Gita is indeed new, because it presents the eternal truth in modern language, so everyone can understand and learn from it.”
L. SUBRAMANIAM, Violin Maestro and Composer

“The New Bhagavad-Gita can be read through or opened to any page to receive your enlightening message for the day.”
PATRICIA SMITH, Founder, Peace X Peace and Editor, Sixty Years, Sixty Voices
“...a welcome addition to the literature on Bhagavad-Gita.”
M. G. PRASAD, Board Member, Hindu University of America

Excellent work. A modern interpretation of a timeless classic, with many original insights. The authors deserve kudos for their initiative and hard work in bringing it together.
R. PRASAD, Chief Rubbernecking Officer, San Francisco Bay area

I am sure your son also will ask on "Creation according to Hinduism".
He can read my book on line on that subject.

Regards

KST

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bhagwan shree ram and   bhagwan shree krishna  are the incarnations of the supreme god VISHNU .as our mythology says BRHMA is the creator VISHNU is the maintainerSHIVA is the destroyer  of this universe  .so they are also GODS only they chose to do the LEELA .,bhagwan ram is known as maryada purushottam as he did every thing for the ideals .bhagwan shree krishna is said to be LEELA PURUSHOTTAM as he did so many leelas in his human incarnation .bal leela ,ras leela ,and became the sarathi of arjun in mahabharat yuddha and he encouraged arjun rather persuaded him to fight against kauravas [a dharm yuddha ].

Chaman nigam

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Thanks for a very essential question

This is the one question that all devotees and
seekers must ask and must know the answer for sure.

The supreme form of Krishna was not the visible human
form when he was in existence in Dwapar Yuga.

The supreme form was HARI.
This is easily confirmed if one refer to second last
verse of Gita text (the eighteenth chapter).
Here the Krishna clarifies his infinite form as Hari
For further detiled inquiry the Geeta states various stgages
of human awareness as

four stages of finite or individual
individual Wakeful
individual Dream
individual Sushupti
individualSelf or Atam sakshatkaar

three stages of Infinite or whole awareness
Purush
Uttam Purush
Sat Purush or Hari

same stages are there in Christianity

Finite/individual forms
Wakeful
Subtle
Astral
Self

wholesome forms
Son of God
Holy Ghost
Holy Father

same stages are for Rama

wakeful
Swapan
Sushupti
Atam anubhav

Purush
Puru-shottam/uttam Purush
Sat/Divya Purush


same stages are for Shiva
wakeful
Swapan
Sushupti
Atam anubhav

Purush
tatva
Sat

--
For global peace ;
Act local please.

With best greetings

DR PUNEET GUPTA

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Hari SharaNam,

Dear Respected SaadhakJi,

I read that page referred by you. I do not disagree with this in its absolute meaning. To go deeper towards realizing this absolute truth, I would suggest you to study the whole flow from 7/4 to 7/19 which concludes at "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" without skipping 7/12-7/16 and then try to find out for yourself (this should not be answered by some one else as it is can not be analyzed/examined by intellect) from where the "TRIBHIR-GUNA-MAYAI-BHAAVAI" ( note that it is not in VAASUDEV / SARVAM ; NA TU AHAM TESHHU TE MAYI - 7/13) has come and why the Lord has used the words "BHAJANTE" and "PRAPADYATE" towards realizing the truth "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI". Note that "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" should not be limited by the intellect, influenced by TRAIGUNA and the part of the APARAA/lower PRAKRRITI nature of VAASUDEV. It (i.e. VAASUDEV SAVAM ITI ) is not the object of the intellect. It is attained only by the surrender of the Self to the Supreme Self (i.e. the innermost Self of every beings & everything ).

On your other concern, first of all All, SwamiJi does not say wrongly. One need to understand the essence in deep and in the context. Do you think SwamiJi would say "the Supreme Lord KRISHNA, in whom is everything, by whom everything proceeds, the controller of the PRAKRRITI/MAAYAA, can come under the influence of his own MAAYAA and be deluded"? If you say yes, then there is no point of even talking/trying to cross the domain of MAAYAA as even if one goes beyond it, will eventually be back under its influence. If not, then how ARJUN of Bhagavad Gita who was once deluded can be equated to Lord KRISHNA?

Again, a name is used to refer to what it means and in which context. One is free to call anything /any being / himself /herself Supreme but he/she should not forget the meaning/essence of the Supreme. The Supreme is not the one who once was under the influence of PRAKRRITI/MAAYAA and then later becomes free (i.e. MAAYAATEET) from it. The Supreme is ever free from MAAYAA and is ever the controller (MAAYAADHEESH) of his own MAAYAA & the beings under MAAYAA (i.e. MAAYAADHEEN). Since, MAAYAA, MAAYAADHEEN, MAAYAATEET are all of the Supreme, therefore the Supreme is EVERYTHING (i.e. VAASUDEVA SARVAM ITI). Yes! until the Truth is realized, as a part of saadhanaa, one can have the view of seeing the Supreme in every things/beings (including Arjun, Saadhak, Niteesh, Vyas...) irrespective of the names, forms, conscious levels towards attain the Supreme. Here, the key is the Supreme/VAASUDEV and not the others.

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey

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TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS HERE IN GITA TASLK -
IF LIVING BEINGS (as stated by Shree Vyas NB) ARE "OTHER THAN VASUDEV" , IF NON-LIVING BEINGS also ARE "OTHER THAN VASUDEV", THEN WHAT IS TERMED VASUDEV in Gita 7:19? THAT LIMITED VASUDEV, WHO IS LIMITED TO KRISHNA ONLY CAN'T BE BE "SARVAM" AS THAT LIMITED VASUDEV EXCLUDES SO MANY LIVING AND NON-LIVING BEINGS.
I beg your pardon here and finish this submission without accepting whatever is said WITHOUT STATING "DOOJAA KAHAAN SE AAYAA?"
Humbly
Saadhaka.

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Hari Om

What was the original Q and where are we? Why do we get away from the very object of GT Group? Take for example, an innocent Q from son of Rashmiji. Her son had trouble in accepting Krishna to be God. Instead of clarifying her Question, we are deliberating now as to how every Narottam or Sarvottam or Radha or Mira is God ! Ha...!

It is time to cure. Why? Because any insistence , however genuine that may be, is improper. 'Nigrah Kim Karishyati' ..says Gita - means 'insistence does not help'. If we carry forward this concept of Vasudev Sarvam without looking at its essence, that day will not be far away when every Jeeva shall say: I am Bhagwaan..I am God.."Hey..Is Gita 7:19 false?" ! Imagine the chaos then !!! Already a clear trend towards that is visible. We have self proclaimed Gods in every street. Scriptures predicted such trend centuries ago. This Divine Forum is a small Forum but is a genuine one dedicated to Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Swamiji never liked any one claiming to be Guru or God. We are sadhaks and our aim should be to remain so. He was asked thousands of questions (Just As: In this Divine GT Forum hundreds of Qs are asked) ..in how many answers did He insist on BG 7:19? Reply...!!!

So It is time to cure.

Gita 7:18 first. 'Jnani tvatmaiva me mata' ..That Jnani is My aatma (soul) . That is how Lord Krishna views such Jnani. It is His view not that of Jnani. On the contrary, such Jnani takes refuge in Him(7:19). Such Jnani considers entire world to be pervaded by Him...sure ! But such Jnani does not consider himself to be Lord...Never. If he and God are the same, how can the question of his surrender to Him arise? Why should he surrender to himself? He surrenders to Lord, who according to him is the source of all including him. Such Jnani can surrender only when he considers Jagdish to be superior than him (Jeeva).

Rightly therefore said Sankaracharyaji:

SATYAPI BHEDAAPAGAME NAATH TAVAAHAM NA MAAMAKI NATSWAM |
SAAMUDRON HI TARANG KVACHAN SAMUDRO NA TAARANGA ||

Here, Shri ShankarachaaryaJi says to Lord VishNu: It is true that the differences between "I" and "You" have gone but still "I am your's and you are not mine" in the same way as "wave is of ocean but ocean is not of wave".

Enough Qs have been asked. Enough distractions have taken place from the original topic. Now it is our turn to ask Qs to Humble Sadhak..curing process..sure :

There is a person referred in Gita 16:14 who says: ..Ishwaroham ahambhogi siddhoham balvaan sukhi..(I am God..I am consumer of worldly pleasures..I am powerful..I am happy ( Don't you know as to Who am I ?) ! Now the person referred in this sloka is also claiming : I am God...! If you apply Vasudev Sarvam as an equation, what is wrong with that man referred by Lord in chapter 16? Why he should be thrown to hells and why Vasudev should meet with him there in the form of horrible pains ..moodhe janmani janmani (16:20) ..birth after birth ? Why? What has he claimed? He simply felt: I am God. What is wrong in his claim? Is Gita 7:19 false?

Lord Krishna said in 13:12..na satnashduchyate...I am said to be neither sat nor asat ! Why? Is Gita 7:19 false? Same Lord Krishna said in 9:19 ..Sadsachhahamrjuna..I am sat as well as asat. How come, Dear Humble Sadhak? Further, He said in 15:18.. Yasmaat ksharamateetoham aksharadapichottam - I am beyond perishable (prakruti/Jagat) and I am superior to imperishable (Purusha/Jeeva). He goes on to say: I am Purushottam ! How can God proclaim Himself to be superior to Jeeva when all is God ? Is Gita 7:19 false? Reply..Dear Humble Sadhak ! It is a Q to you? Is Gita false?

Lord Krishna said in 9:6/7: All Jeevas reside in Me, but I don't reside in them. Then He said in 7:12/9:6-10 .. Neither they are in Me, nor I am in them ! Thhen He said in 7:6/7: Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidast Dhananjay...! Then He said in chapter 9:27 or 28 about His Bhaktas ..I am in them , they are in Me..why only Bhaktas? What is devoid of Him? Why not others? Does that mean 7:6/7 are false ? Why not those who are referred in chapter 16 stating : "Ishvaroham" are getting excluded ? Are they not God? Why not all other Jeevas? Is Gita 7:19 false?

Lord says in 9:11 - "Avjaananti maam moodha.." Who are those "moodhas" ? Why their desires, karmas, knowledge etc are 'mogh' (futile) ? Is Gita 7:19 false? Refer 7:14 also..why those people are stated to be 'dushkritana moodha..naradhama' ? Why? Is Gita 7:19 false ?

Reply..Sir..It is a Q to Humble Saadhak. Asking Qs is one thing and replying is another. You have quoted Sadhak Sanjeevani one page..how many shall I quote ?

Sadhaks should refrain from reading Gita using intellect..it then becomes a riddle, a grand riddle...still as valid, divine, and correct as before ! Said Swamiji: You can understand Gita the best by surrendering to it. Why did Swamiji say so? Why you should surrender, when All is God..you are also God? To whom do you surrender? Is Gita 7:19 false?

Let us not encourage people claiming: "Hey I am also God." No verse including 7:19 entitles a Jeeva to claim equality with Jagdish..no verse ! Already enough claimants are there on this planet stating : Ishwaroham ahambhogi...!!! "Aham Brahmasmi" ..this is not 'sadhana goal" ...! Where is Brahma when there is 'aham' ? Where is 'aham' in Brahma? Ha...!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Shri Hari

Just read this in facebook - http://www.facebook.com/sadhaksanjivani

This is not specifically for Rashmiji, but for other sadhaks in the discussion. Swamiji never fails in providing the insights at the right time regarding the discussion that is going on.

Sadhak Sanjeevani (Swami Ramsukhdasji) - Detailed Commentary on the Gita
The surrender of a man of wisdom, is different from that of a sufferer, the seeker of knowledge, and a seeker of wealth. So, the Lord has called him His own self (7/18) because according to him, there is none other entity, besides the Lord. The Lord Himself declares, `Like clusters of yarn-beads formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me' (7/7). As in a rosary made of yarn-beads, there is nothing besides yarn, so in the world, there is nothing, besides God. One who realizes this fact, is said to take refuge, in Him. This realization is, real surrender to Him. (SS 7/19)

meera das, ram ram

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Shree Niteesh Dubeyjee!
Swameejee explained 'Vaasudev: sarvam' on page 497 of Saadhaka Sanjeevanee (Fifth Edition samvat 2044) and there He asked a question. Kindly answer that question first.
After stating, 'is prakaar jab aadi aur antamen jab ek bhagawaan hee rahate hain tab beechamen doosaraa kahaanase aayaa?'
Also my question to be answered is, 'doosaraa hai hee kahaan?'
One more thing : Either all names are of God's or NO names refer to God. How can Vaasudev be differentiated from Krishna or Arjun or Vishnu or Lakshmee or Ganga or Himalaya or whatever that can be named? Do you mean Swameejee stated wrongly, 'isaliye yah sab Vaasudev hee hai.' ?
Please guide me towards what is IS.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

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Hari Om

Ha...! I agree in toto with Sadhak Neetish Dubey. MOST CERTAINLY , all Narottams, Sarvottams, Dubeys, Prataps, Nagas, Madhavs, Keshavs, Mikes, Rashmis, Shashikalas, etc etc of this world ARE NOT..are not...are not... "Vasudev" referred in Gita 7:19 ! Most Certainly !

One should NEVER be 'matvaadi' ( a person stuck, like with fevicol, with one view) ! One should be 'tatvaadi' ( a person viewing the 'essence' of any view ) ! Vasudev Sarvam is concept needing you to 'experience' essence.. not talk of letter ...! Quoted Param Shraddhey Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj many times the immortal words of a Saint:

MATWAADI JAANE NAHIN TATWAADI KI BAAT ! SOORAJ UGE ULLUVA GINE ANDHERI RAAT !!

A person obsessed/ stuck with a concept/view point can never understand/know talk of a person who understands the 'essence'. Just as: An owl considers dawn (rising of the Sun) to be a dark and cloudy night !!

An obsession with Vasudev Sarvam is indeed such and therefore according to me, Scriptures prohibit you to refrain from just talking casually about the same..! One ought to be serious..a rare JNANI..a Mahatma...!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Why children? Even the elders are beseized with such doubts. To clarify at the outset one must understand the very concept of Divine Gods and Goddesses in Sanatan philosophy ( popularly known as Hindu philosophy). I may suggest that the following articles be read where the concept has been discussed.
"One God, many gods Part 1&2" in May and June 2006 issues of Ahwan magazine. Search the web for ahwan org - God bless all - Sri Bimal Mohanty

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Dear Ones, Namaste!
All such questions from our children or anyone must be answered as best as we can and I think all sadhakas have answered them in the best possible ways too!
So, I will say this: It is all right to discuss whether or not Krishna is Supreme Lord, but I would emphasize the following point!
It is more important to find out what does Supreme Lord mean to me? Is the body of Krishna, born and died was Krishna's essence? Is a body of anyone else, for that matter, alone an essence of that person?
As Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesha all may be in our mind as ideas, symbols, images, beliefs, based on what people, scriptures, have told us and what we may have seen in movies, or TV serials.
What do these mean in terms of my daily life? Shouldn't we inquire and find out what is behind these names? If these names don't bring about devotion, right knowledge, compassion, Love, Peace, what values do they have in believing who is Supreme and who is not!
I think we should help ourselves as well as our children who asks such questions by inspiring them to find answers to such questions!
To me, this will have more meaning in addition to answering what we have done here!
Namaskr...........Pratap Bhatt

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Just meditate and imagine one single entity having myriad of forms ploughing upon every existence in cosmos,you may start realizeing his greatness,HE is very explained in Holy Bhagwat Gita in chapter 9 sloka 5.Just don't be confused by tales or pictures.
subhashtewari

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Hari SharaNam,

Dear SaadhakJi,

Your finding is correct that the string "KRISHNA" is not found in those verses. But, I did not mean and expect you to look for the string or its spelling in those verses. I think we all know that the use of any word in any communication lies in what it means/points/refers to. I mentioned what is stated/meant by BHGAVAAN KRISHNA about himself or what is stated by Arjun & Sanjay about BHAGAVAAN KRISHNA who is also referred by many other names (e.g. VAASUDEV - 11/50, 18/74, VISHNU, HARI, MAADHAV, JANAARDAN, KESHAVA, HRRISHEKESH, MADUSOODAN, KESHINISOODAN, ARISOODAN, GOVIND,........) in the Bhagavad Gita but the same SUPREME can be referred by any other name not mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. I hope it helps you understand the fact.

Regarding your question/comment " if ONLY Krishna is 'Vasuev: Sarvam' and Arjun and ALL beings are NOT, then why do we say Gita 7 : 19 is not False?".

The Gita 7/19 says ...
After many births, the GYAANI BHAKTA who PRAPADYATE/surrenders to me (MAAM) and claims/realizes the truth "VASUDEV SARVAM ITI" is really the great soul (MAHAATMAA) found in very high rarity (SUDURLABHA).

If we pay attention to this shloka. It calls the one who makes such claim MAHAATMAA but there is no any indication that it becomes VAASUDEV. So, in my understanding, any being can never be VAASUDEV but VAASUDEV is everything including that being as all the materials of the beings are of the Supreme. The same can be seen in that case of Arjun. Arjun does not claim that He has become VAASUDEV even after getting his delusion destroyed, he says "KARISHYE VACHANAM TAV" (18/73) although the truth is "VAASUDEV is Arjun also" (10/37). If a being claims it is VAASUDEV, it is not the being but the VAASUDEV only.

This may be more clear by the following line of VISHNU-KSHATAPADI by Sri ShankaraachaaryaJi.

SATYAPI BHEDAAPAGAME NAATH TAVAAHAM NA MAAMAKI NATSWAM |
SAAMUDRON HI TARANG KVACHAN SAMUDRO NA TAARANGA ||

Here, Shri ShankarachaaryaJi says to Lord VishNu:
It is true that the differences between "I" and "You" have gone but still "I am your's and you are not mine" in the same way as "wave is of ocean but ocean is not of wave".

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey

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--kindly listen to krishna bhajans  all your misunderstandings will be blown d=off and ask your son also to listen to then there are so many cds available nowadays this is my humble suggestion .jai shree krishna .if ypu allow me i can suggest you some .

Chaman nigam
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Shree Niteesh Dubeyjee!
Saadhaka couldn't find the very word 'Krishna' in any of the verses cited by you as below :
KRISHNA is Param Brahm ! (10/12)
KRSIHNA is the Supreme Knowable! (9/17, 11/18, 15/15, 13/12)
KRISHNA is Supreme Abode ! (10/12)
KRISHNA is the Abode of Brahm, Dharma, Bliss, Peace, Nirvaan! (14/27, 6/15)
KRISHNA is Supreme Ishwar of all the lokas & beings! (4/6, 5/29, 9/11, 10/3, 15/17)
KRSIHNA is ParamAatma! (15/17)
KRISHNA is Aadi Purushha! (15/4,10/12, 11/38)
KRISHNA is Maha Yogeshwar! (11/9)
KRSIHNA is the inner-most soul of all the beings! (10/20)
KRISHNA is Eternal Father, Mother, Teacher, Friend of every beings! (9/17, 11/43, 5/29, 9/18)
KRSIHNA is Supreme, nothing is beyond him, everything is within him, everything is from him! (7/7, 10/8)
KRISHNA is Everything (7/19)!
In verse 19 of Chapter 7 also there is no word Krishna.
Brother, please guide me to correct my understanding that if ONLY Krishna is 'Vasuev: Sarvam' and Arjun and ALL beings are NOT, then why do we say Gita 7 : 19 is not False?
Humbly,
Saadhaka.
-------------------------------------------------
Rashmiji,

Sorry if I sound harsh. Whenever I fail to respond to seemingly irking questions from my son, or anyone else as a matter of fact, it just reveals the fact that my appreciation on the subject is lacking, if not, insufficient at the least.

Therefore, my suggestion is to strengthen your appreciation encore regarding what you think is KrishNa! Just like any concept or idea, KrishNa is also oblivious to start with. Arjuna is an excellent example for learning KrishNa, The Vaasudeva or any other spiritual idea.

KrishNa is simply a distant idea to start with for Arjuna ... a distant cousin. Once they meet, the friendship spurts from the association that grows deeper and deeper. KrishNa becomes his best well-wisher as the vested trust and affection grows deeper.

KrishNa becomes his comrade and ambassador to promote his well-being as his faith in the wisdom on the other end grows! The same trust grows KrishNa to become his guide for living which KrishNa does whole-heartedly. How can He just ignore the deep-grown trust and affection from his dearest friend?!

The same trust grows into reverence as Arjuna starts visualizing a great teacher in KrishNa. He just surrenders himself empowering his dear friend to rule his understanding with the abundant wisdom that KrishNa oozes out.

The reverence to a teacher turns into an abyss of devotion in the disciple as his Tanu (body), Mana (mind) as well as Dhana (core existence) is disciplined, cleansed and filled with that very devotion. The disciple turns devotee of highest rank as the action as well as the thought converges into Devotion, a deep-sensed surrender to The Lord.

As the devotion grows deeper, the fellow starts rising to newer and subtler horizons of appreciation of The Universal Truth radiating from his beloved fellow being,cousin,friend, well wisher, teacher,AND Lord. The Lord becomes the revered opportunity to the devotee for self-emancipation (Manonaasha) as well as Self Awareness (Aatmabodha). The devotee turns an ardent Mumukshu yearning for an eternal merger with The Truth.

As the Mumukshattva grows into subtler awareness ... Arjuna BECOMES nothing and KrishNa REMAINS AS EVER ...

Therefore, Rashmiji, charm and mend your appreciation on what KrishNa is for yourself. Automatically THAT oozes out from you and seeps into the fellow beings ... naturally ... eventually ...

Rashmiji, with my experience, I can assure you that KrishNa happily plays any and all roles that one can ever conceive ... nobody ... relative, friend, foe, ... guide, Guru, Bhagavaan ... THE TRUTH ...

HE IS. HE just IS.

It is up to us how we enable ourselves to see Him. We may refuse the vision as DhritaraashTra did ... we may embrace the vision with absolute reverence as Sanjaya did!

It is upto us how far we would like to grow into HIM :). We could be a Shishupaala and loathe the very idea ... are we could be a Uddhava and just be The KrishNa, be His shadow if manifestation is a must!

Accordingly our actions, thoughts and speech manifest for other's benefit.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Good he believes his father. If he can say you are also born like me and you will also died before me to his father- imagine the situation. This boys earlier birth Vasana is now being produced. Even during Sri Krishna`s period there was a king called Poundraka Vasudevan who was saying exactly the same this boy is now telling. I do not wish to say what happened to Poundraka Vasudevan.
B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------------------

i believe krishna is the supreme ,ultimate and is every thing -----
jai shree krishna
Chaman nigam

------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam!

Who is KrishNa?

Referring to Bhagavad Gita, Arjun is talking to his friend KRISHNA only who is referred as the Bhagavaan in "Shri Bhagavaan Uvaach" by Bhagavad Gita.

DRISHTVEVAM SWAJANAM KRISHNA - 1/28

NA KAANXYE VIJAYAM KRISHNA - 1/32

ADHARMAABHIBHAVAAT KRISHNA - 1/41

SANYAASAM KARMANAAM KRISHNA - 5/1

CHANCHALAM HI MANAH KRISHNA - 6/34

APRAAPYA YOGSANSIDDHA KAAM GATIM KRISHNA - 6/37

ETANME SANSHAYAM KRISHNA - 6/39

HE KRISHNA HE YAADAV HE SAKHETI - 11/41

TESHHAM NISHHTHAA TU KAA KRISHNA - 17/1

Sanjay is also referring to the same Bhagavaan of "Sri Bhagavaan Uvaach" as KRISHNA.

NAMASKRRITVAA BHOOYA EVAAH KRISHNAM - 11/35

YOGAM YOGESHWARAAT KRISHNAAT SAAXAAT - 18/75

YATRA YOGESHWAR KRISHNA - 18/78

If you can not accept this fact that KRISHNA is the same Bhagavaan as in "Sri Bhagavaan Uvaach", then I do not think you are reading Bhagavad Gita.

On the other hand, if you do not have any doubt about this fact that KRISHNA is the same Bhagavaan as in "Sri Bhagavaan Uvaach", then no imagination/logic/mapping is needed to understand who is KRISHNA as the same Bhagavad Gita says:
KRISHNA is the Param/Uttam Purushha (superior to immutable Purushha and beyond mutable Purushha) ! (15/19, 10/15, 8/22, 13/12, 11/37)

KRISHNA is Param Brahm ! (10/12)

KRSIHNA is the Supreme Knowable! (9/17, 11/18, 15/15, 13/12)

KRISHNA is Supreme Abode ! (10/12)

KRISHNA is the Abode of Brahm, Dharma, Bliss, Peace, Nirvaan! (14/27, 6/15)

KRISHNA is Supreme Ishwar of all the lokas & beings! (4/6, 5/29, 9/11, 10/3, 15/17)

KRSIHNA is ParamAatma! (15/17)

KRISHNA is Aadi Purushha! (15/4,10/12, 11/38)

KRISHNA is Maha Yogeshwar! (11/9)

KRSIHNA is the inner-most soul of all the beings! (10/20)

KRISHNA is Eternal Father, Mother, Teacher, Friend of every beings! (9/17, 11/43, 5/29, 9/18)

KRSIHNA is Supreme, nothing is beyond him, everything is within him, everything is from him! (7/7, 10/8)

KRISHNA is Everything (7/19)!

May The Supreme Lord KrishNa bless all!
Niteesh Dubey

--------------------------------------------
Rashmi Patel . . .

The answer you give your child, will depend on his age. . . . LOL. ..

IF , the child is old enough to understand, what narinder would say to him , IS :

The supreme, the Lord of lords, the Light of lights . . . is NOT a name ..... and is , therefore , all names . . .

The Name that is music to your Heart and Soul is the Name for you . . .

To narinder .. there is No sweeter music than the chimes that resonate from the name Kruishna, Kruishna Kruishna . . .

Krishna it is . . . and Krishna it shall remain . . . . Krishna , Krishna , Krishna . . .

Krishna is Rama..... Krishna Shiva .. .. Krishna is Ganesha . . . .Lo !

Krishna, who is the self in all . . . not the body born, but THAT un-nameable Consciousness ,

who can not NOT be Shiva and Ganesh too !.

SO, dear son .....

Shiva it is . . Shiva Shiva, Shiva . . . Om namo Shivaye . . .

Ganesha it is , yes . . . Jai Ganesh, Jai Ganesh, Jai Ganesh, Jai jai . . .

narinder bhandari

aum
-----------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

I have said often and without fail, that not every discussion can be co-related with the principle of Vasudev Sarvam. Vasudev Sarvam is a personal experience/realisation and not some mathematical equation or Law of Physics.

When I said : " Lord Krishna went back to His Abode", I meant He unmanifested from Human Form, and completed His Leela while remaining in the Form of Lord Krishna/ human and ceased to also remain in His Leela Form and human body (avtaar body). What has this statement got to do with His Omnipresence? His Omnipresence was there before He took avataar, it was there also during the period of His remaining in a Human Form (body) and it continues to be even after His completion of Leela in Human Form (body). Where is the suggestion to the contrary? How that statement affects, His Omnipresence? How can it?

In any case, almost entire of my message referred by you was copied, almost AS IT IS, from Sadhak Sanjeevani..Gita verse 'Janma Karma Me Divyam' .. BG 4:9 including the sentence quoted by you. When I write in this Divine Forum, I always meticulously try to quote, as far as practicable, the views of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj only..the presentation /selection/ order only is mine..as a rule, rest all are teachings as grasped by me from Swamiji's books/pravachans.. As a rule ! Accordingly, what I have stated , in this case, is quoted/ copied AS IT IS from Swamiji's immortal Treatise on Gita..Sadhak Sanjeevani ! Hence He also said in SS , BG 4:9, the same words "Lord Krishna went back to His Abode" ! Rightly so, because otherwise how will you express/ccommunicate the tenure of Lord Krishna's avtaar in Human Form? Can you tell me any other form of expression?

You are an ardent bhakta and believer in Gita and also follower of the teachings of Swamiji and hence please be happy that I have quoted AS IT IS from His book- Sadhak Sanjeevani !

Pranaams !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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As per the Upanishads and Gita, everything in this creation is nothing but a manifestation of God. God exists in everything and every where. God is never born or dead and He always exist in everything that is born , living, unliving, dead of transformed. So, your son, you are God as much as Krishna, Siva, Brahma and Bishnu are because God exists in and pervades everything. But all manifested forms of God do not exhibit the same features and do not show up all the main
properties of God. Some of the important properties of God is that God does not have a desire, does not have an ego of being a doer, He is unperturbed by whatever transformations that goes on in Him, He being the entire Creation. He is beyond material and sensual happiness and sorrow. He is immensely powerful and yet has no pride. He does not distinguish his various manifestations as different, good or bad. As a human being, Lord Krishna possessed all the properties. For Him kauravas were as dear as the Pandavas . He was unaffected, unperturbed by any event, even the consequences of the Kurukshetra War. He made efforts to prevent the War but never thought that He had failed to avert a War because He did not see himself as a doer. He did
nothing to satisfy His selfish goals if any. He was never angry. He was never rude. He was always calm and smiing. He was the mightiest among the people in his time. Since He was all properties of God personafied, He is equated with God.
As for Brhama, Bishnu, Shiva - they are also manifestations of God. They also exhibited many major properties of God. So they are the same God as well. The question of who is God or who issuperior does not arise. Such thinking is God's device to keep human beings search for God in vain. One who is able to perceive God in everything does not find that question meaningful
Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

This question has caused me to reflect:

Lord Krishna, was born to queen Devaki at midnight in the prison. As soon as the child was born, Lord Vishnu appeared in divine form and the prison was filled with a dazzling light.

Jesus was born in a manger, and it was marked by a star, and angels were present.

Both appear to have come from the womb of a women.

Then both were made from the elements.

Strange entrance for the Lord of all.

Both parents of these two had to protect these two infants from death.

And what of Lord Shiva.

I followed a thread re Krishna was blue, multiple answers.

Juxtapose to all this: ' If there is development to a high degree in

understanding the complete absence of this delusion of the

world born like the colour of the sky, then, the nature of

Brahman (or the Absolute Reality) can be known; but not

through other action. There is no other auspicious means

except (the knowledge of) the complete absence of the

visible world (for the realisation of the Absolute).

The highest (or Absolute) Reality is not known at any

time by anybody without (realising) the impossibility of the

natural existence of this visible object, called the world.' [Vaasishha]

So as I see it In the 'Play of consciousness', Sri Krishna is supreme Lord as per Lila of those who bow to him, as Jesus is to those who bow to him, Shivi......

But beyond all that, all is Brahman.

Mike
------------------------------------------
There is only one Supreme Lord for the entire mankind who is ajo (not born), formless and Ineffable. Vedic Rsis named Thee Nirguna Brahman from ever expanding Brahmand. Vishnu from "one who spreads in Vishwa". Wise men describe Thee with different names. In Vedas Brahman and Vishnu are not the Names but Epithets. In Vedas Cosmic Word OM is Brahman.

As Adi Sankracharya says all others with attributes and form are Saguna Brahma- gods and not God.
Regards
Prem Sabhlok

--------------------------------------------
Dear Rashmiji:

Hari Om. God is both born, and unborn; with form and formless, and what else He is only He knows and only He can tell.

Lord Krishna (as also Ram & others) are incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

God is:

Generator
Operator, and
Destroyer of all that has been, is and will ever be.

In Hindu thought, Brahma is the Generator, Vishnu is the Operator and Shiva the Destroyer.

Operator has not only to work more and hard, He has to set standards for others to follow. So, all the incarnations
descend on the earth with the sole aim of demonstrating how a human should lead their life. Krishna did just that and so
He is an incarnation of God.

Thanks and regards,

Janardana N Mamtora
-------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Saadhaka question where can Sri Krishna go somewhere. When Radha Matha felt that Sri Krishna is in utmost love on her, carrying her from the group of Gopies, that moment Sri Krishna disappeared from her vision only. Radha wept and Gopies consoled her.
Sri Arvind Kaushik posted, (Though I am unborn, of imperishable nature, the Lord of all beings, yet, subordinating My nature (prakriti), I manifest Myself, through My Yogamaya). Like we say my leg and my hand considering this body, by Sri Vishnu Maya Sri Krishna appeared. The same doubt sri Naradhji had- So went to each wife of Sri Krishna and he saw Sri Krishna in each house with each wife at the same time. Bhramaji also had doubt on Sri Krishna- He took all Bala Gopas one day to his lok. But to his surprise he saw same bala gopas are there in his lok as well as in Gokulam on earth. For that Bhramaji sinned and had to do Tapas on this earth. My Deavaki, Arujuna, etc could not understand Sri Krishna when HE pretended to have head ache. Only Gopies understood. A gopi Chitayanthi got Moksha even without seeing Sri Krishna. When one Christ disciple suspected the raise from death - Christ said, "Blessed are those who believe in me without even seeing me". 13 Years Budha brother in law was with Budha but he was not blessed rather than a man who saw Bhuda only once. When kings and great rich men approached Budha to obtain his blessing with costly offerings (Which Budha gave it away same day to others), a farmer Soradoss obtain everlasting blessing from Budha by offering a Lotus flower and gained moksha. So making one to believe in Sri Krishna is impossible unless HE wishes. Great men like Bishma realized Sri Krishna very late, but Kunthi Matha realized much earlier to anyone. This is evident from the boon she asked Sri Krishna- "Oh Krishna please give me eternal Duk (Sufferings)". Are we not shamed by asking Bagavan give me this and that? Are we stopping with one request to Bagavan? One of the 12 Saints (Alwars) was asked by Sri Ramanuja to visit Sri Varadharaja in Kanchipuram to gain vision as he was blinded. When this saint went there, he simple sang a song and walked off. Sri Vishnu as Varadharaja called the saint and said why he forgot to get a boon to gain vision. Saint said, "Oh God this (Chaksus) eyes is perishable along with this body , why disturb you with my request". Mother Meera drank poison knowingly that this body without Krishna NOT worth living. But this poison was drank by Krishna, like in the case of Prahalad. That is Sarvam Vasudevam- If I find fault with any one,-- then my concept of Sarvam Vasudevam is LOST. One saint loved by Sri Ranganatha (Sri Visnu) was behind a woman. Another Baktha criticized. God said , you fellow have no business to point out my Baktha. I will take care of him. Since you found fault with him, I refrain from you.
B.Sathyanarayan

-----------------------------------------------
Dear sadaks,
Further to my earlier posting. When Sri Vyasji said, "Sri Krishna went
to HIS abode", means HE went to Vaikunt. Vaikunt is clearly and in
detail described in Srimath Bagavath, Vedas, and in Upanashids." Madam
Saadaka can understand that, Sri Krishna on earth completed HIS
mission and continues HIS control from Sri Vaikunt too. To kill demons
and people like Kans HE need to show a form. HIS form HE can became
invisible and visible as HE pleases. By this ordinary eyes one can
only see HIM as Krishna. With Divya Dristi Arjuna saw Sri Visnu and
pleaded to close that vision and give him normal Sri Krishna roop.
Only by Gyana Dristi one see HIM as Sri Vishnu. In Duryodhan Sabah,
Sri Krishna took Virat roop. How have seen it? Duryodhan seen it
partially but said it is black magic. The best example for Vasudevam
Sarvam- is- that Vasudev in Duryodhan illuminated as Magic because of
his Ahamkar. For Beshma, HE illuminated as GOD. For Dukshadan HE took
away blindness and gave HIS vision, but in him God never illuminated
as God. So to see HIM, one has to be tuned to that frequency called
Niskama Prema Bakthi. For man with green glasses, everything around
looks green and for red glasses. It is the glass that make look in
different colours, but the object is in original form. So God is the
unchanging, blissful etc, but it our mind (Glasses) makes us look
different. It is NOT HIS mistake but ours.From Vaikunt HE can come and
go any fraction of a second. Sri Krishna from Dwaraka gave robes to
Drowpati at Hastinapur while being disrobed. How this possible?
Think. He is omnipresent but not visible to everyone. Geetha says we
can see HIM by Gyana only. Geetha HE says to Arjuna,'' Bakthi I cant
give you Arjuna- you have to inculcate". There was a King in Kerala
earnestly trying to see Krishna. But failed for years. But his quest
was constant with faith over several years. Then he realized that his
kingly robes, guards, etc to be deserted and alone with most simple
clothes he stated visiting Guruvayur. He saw Krishna when his heart
melted with tears. The Palava king astrologer predicted, that he shall
die of snake bite on 3rd Poornima day. On advice and faith, he
traveled to Guruvayur and stayed alone. The snake did bite him, but he
arose from death. After that he constructed outer periphery wall of
today. This is called surrender in both cases. What illuminated these
2 men was faith & surrender that they saw Krishna. So if one start
with faith alone the belief on Krishna comes. That faith indirectly
called Bakthi which Sri Krishna said HE cant give and one has to try
by himself in Geetha.
B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------------------------c

This question is not relevant for participants off Geeta Talk. What is important for your son is to study Bhagwad-Geeta under the guidance of some knowledgeable person and then try to understand its utility in tranforming and divinising our dailly life.
Jayantilal Shah

----------------------------------------------------

Ajo'pi sannavyayaatmaa bhootaanaamissvaro'pi san
prakrtim svaamadhisthaaya sambhavaamyaatmamaayayaa (Gita 4/6)

Though I am unborn, of imperishable nature, the Lord of all beings, yet, subordinating My nature (prakriti), I manifest Myself, through My Yogamaya. (divine potency)

Arvind Kaushik

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Sadhak Vyas NB wrote
Lord Krishna went back to His Abode ,
Question is : If Krishna is considered Paramaatmaa (Vasudev: Sarvam vide Gita 7 : 19), how can He go somewhere? This goes against the virtue of being Omnipresent. An explanation will be appreciated.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

--------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rshmi Ji,

I think your son's question is natural and it is only such enquiry one can understand better.
Please tell your son that in Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna and the Supreme (Parabrahman) are used
interchangebly. It becomes abundantly clear in many verses, for example Chapter 4 beginning verses:

4:1
I taught this eternal yoga to Vivasvat.
Vivasvat taught Manu and
Manu taught Ikshvaku.
Vivasvat is the sun; Manu and Ikshvaku are his descendents,
and patriarchs of the famous solar dynasty.

4:2
Thus handed down
in regular succession,
the rajarishis knew this.
(A rajarishi is one who is both a king and a sage).
But over the long course of time
the yoga seems to be lost in the world.
(Over time, the eternal yoga gets cluttered by tradition and
complicated by excessive scholarship; thus, it is practically lost).

Also it is Sri Bhagavaan uvaacha in Bhagavad-Gita; note it is not Krishna Bhagavaan uvaacha or
Bhagavaan Krishna uvaacha! Like when we say alcohol, it means ethanol which gets people high!
Theer are countless other alcohols like Methyl alcohol, iso-propyl alcohol, Retinol (Vitamin A)-
but when you say alcohol, it is ethanol. In this spirit, Bhagavad-Gita uses Bhagavan.
We also say, "Sri Krishna parabrahmane namah".

I am sure your son will also ask even the question which (unfortunately) Arjuna did not ask.
Namely, why was the yoga taught before was lost?
May be our notes in the parenthesis to above 2 shlokas will predict how it was lost.

Koti Sreekrishna

------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhak,

It is a very important question and should not be answered in a routine fashion
by making statements only out of belief. When we discuss about 'Godly persons'
it is not proper to use adjective like supreme or lord's of the lord as it implies
other are inferior or superior. Whereas GOD itself is enough without any adjectives.
It is easy to say supreme in whatever we believe in but this always eludes children
as we sought of indirectly tend to fall in competition between various representations/manifestations
of God.
First explain to him what we mean by God or when Krishna says who am I? ...that is the bigger
question to attend to. You can say we always address Krishna as person and Krishna as true soul
of God. No one can deny that Krishna was born and died as physical entity but survives as spirit
and soul touching like sky to all wisdom seekers. Now, those who represented that supreme entity
before and after were neither more or less compare to that supreme soul or those who represented
the supreme knowledge from time to time. Being born in India and in Hindu family we have advantage
of believing in Krishna with faith and unshaken belief that Krishna is a God. But at the same time we should not
fall into comparing business anymore on spiritual platform. Discuss about the supremacy of message and
contents and you will realize the greatness of message and who so ever represents that truth in/for you
is God ever living on this earth. I appreciate the zeal and truthfulness of innocence of question but we must
address the issue squarely without killing inquisitiveness in children.
In today's context it pains you when we market Gita in such a fashion that it becomes a political issue, this is the result of marketing done by some self styled masters of Gita, this becomes disservice to the great message. It is not truthful of us to believe that Gita will survive through our preaching or marketing, this message has and will
survive many centuries without our efforts.
In conclusion, all Godly figures are supreme and represent the only one universal truth.'SARV LOKE EK NATHAM'.
You can get best meaning of it in one of Vishnu stuti' SHANTA KARAM BHUJAGSHAYANAM MEGH VARNAM SHUBHAGAM...'
Get correct translation and meaning of these verses for your son.

Hari Om,

R.K.Raina

-------------------------------------------------

Namaste Rashmi,

In my previous mail i show the qualities of Krishna.Now please teach your son about the sceintific explanation of Gods in Sanathana Dharma.

Explanation for Mahavishnu: The blue colour of Vishnu denotes the colour of the sky and ocean which means the infinity/ limitless. The serpent on which Vishnu is lying denotes the coiled structure of a galaxy. The name of the serpent anantha means limitless (infinity) the ksheera saagaram ( ocean of milk) on which Vishnu is pictured shows milky way galaxy. Anantha sayana represent the silent universe/ galaxies. Symbolically Mahalakshmi ( meaning of this word is prosperity) has been attributed the position of the wife of Mahavishnu showing that any system can smoothly exist only with prosperity.

From Mahavishnu comes out through a Lotus (symbolically) the creator Lord Brahma. This symbolically presents a connection of Lord Brahma with the prapancha purhsa similar to the connection of the baby in the womb of the mother. The baby takes the energy and nutrition for growing/ cell production from the mother. Similarly Lord Brahma takes energy and material from for creation in the world. The four heads of Lord Brahma represent the four axes required for any creation: x, y, z and time axes. The Vedas (the word itself means knowledge) in the hands of Lord Brahma and the position of Saraswathy (deity of knowledge) as the wife of the creator symbolically present that for every creation knowledge/ vidya is required. The knowledge and creation (knowledge for creation) are inseparable components.

Lord Siva is the deity symbolically presents the controller of death/ destruction (the destruction is for further construction). Mahavishnu and Lord Siva are said to be connected through hearts ( which only means inseparable) Vishnoasya hrudayam siva: Sivosya hrudayam vishno â€" says Upanishads and Yajurveda. Symbolically Lord Siva has powerful fire in the third eye, powerful water and torrential air symbolically tied in the tuft and the snake around the neck ( symbol of international medical association) and thri sool in hand. All the five respectively present destruction through fire, water (flood , etc) air ( cyclone/ tempest, etc) diseases and using weapons. Parvathy (means energy/force/sakti) is symbolically presented as the wife of Lord Siva . Through this combination of Lord Siva and Parvathy, it is shown that the destruction for construction can take place with powerful application of any one or more of the above five. (powerful fire, air, water, diseases and weapon only have the destruction capacity). Thus they become inseparable hence the concept of Ardhanaareeswara comes up. In fact the Brahma Vishnu Maheswara sankalpa and the Lakshmi Parvathy Sarswathi sankalpa are the symbolic presentation of the life cycle spiritual- social and physical level when scientifically explained. Always the Hindus consider the knowledge, prosperity and sakthi/power in feminine gender. These explanations (of the gods) are the connecting layers of Vedic and puranic concepts of gods.

About other deities: In puranas one can read the stories of Vigneswara having the shape of the cross section of human brain, worshipped as the Lord who removes/ protects from the hurdles in the life. Hurdles can be as huge as elephants and it can come from anywhere just like a rat (mooshika vaahana) comes. Students who learn the six branches of Vedic subjects Siksha- nirukta- vyaakarana- chandassastra- kalpasaastra and Jyothisha, worship Subrahmanya/ Muruka, Subrahmanya is given the Lordship of six subjects. Hence six heads one for each subject. Incidentally, I feel it is worth explaining here that Ravana is said to have ten heads. It is because Ravana has the capacity of ten heads ( he has learned the four Vedas and six Vedangas and even he had tried to master the 11th subject , the Ayurveda too). Yamadharma raja or Kaala is the controller of death Yaama and Kaala (yaamasya apathyam pumaan yama: and kaalasya apathyam puman kaala) both means the controller of time. Hence the names clearly give the scientific truth that the death is connected with the time. Kaala is symbolically presented coming on a he buffalo ( he buffalo is said to be the most senseless animal, hence the time of death arrives to us senselessly â€" and takes our breath- without looking the age, religion, sex or any other parameters of the individualâ€" we say people die just like that)

Lord Krishna and Lord Rama and many heroes of the puranas and epics give us the message for elevating ouirselves from the ordinary human level to the level of incarnation/ avathara level. Their message enrich our life. They stand as role models in our life. Hence they are worshipped and celebrated as avatharas.

Shaiju

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Just observe a picture of Viraat Swaroop and feel the greatness of Lord Krishna.U will observe all gods present there.
subhashtewari

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Hari Om

Yes ! Krishna is Supreme Lord ! The Lord is beyond birth and death. His manifestation in human body, is not like the birth of common men. In case of 'avtaars' , there are 'divya' (Divine) happenings . 'Janma Karma me divyam' ...BG 4:9 ! Krishna, for example, did not take birth under the compulsion of Nature as other humans do, but He manifested Himself of His own accord in order to stage the drama of human life, for the welfare of beings. When Lord Rama or Lord Krishna descended on the mortal world, mother Kaushalya or Devaki , did not give birth to Them. First, Paramatma revealed to them His four armed divine Form , with conch, disc, mace and lotus, and then staged the drama of a child, then the mother, requested Him to conceal that divine Form. The Form (body) of Lord Krishna or Lord Rama , unlike other human beings, was not made of flesh and blood. The Form of Lord ( Lord Ram or Lord Krishna) is eternal , healthy, spiritual, unchanging, divine and is revealed.

Lord Krishna went back to His Abode , in His Form (Shrimadbhagvata- 11/31/6) . Similarly, it is said in the Ramayana by Valmiki , that Lord Rama, having decided , entered the splendour of Lord Vishnu , with His three brothers. He thus, unlike common men, disappeared from this mortal world along with His body(Form), His body was not left on earth.

Therefore, merely because history has records of say Lord Krishna's dates of manifestation, Leela and disappearance, it can not be said that He was like other humans.

What people believe as miracles is in fact the pastime of Lord.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
--------------------------------------------
Namaste Rashmi,

Krishna is not a god but his godly behavior make him a great role model for the entire humanity.Some of the specialties of Krishna is as follows:-

Lord Krishna is a friend for those who consider him a friend with suhrut bhakti. He guides you through the correct pathway, just like a friend.
Lord Krishna is a god for those who consider him a god with Eeswara bhakti. He gives blessings and atmopadesa just like he has done to Uddhava and Arjuna.
Lord Krishna is a lover for those who approach him with great affection with prema bhakti,. He gives the love and affection to them and teaches others how to submit yourself to the devotees and friends .
Lord Krishna was like a son to Kunti and Gandhari . Even while advocating Arjuna for fighting the war, he kept that status of a son, with them. They always showed the vatsalya bhakti.
Lord Krishna is a psychologist, for those who are mentally/ psychologically disturbed due to tension and worries in their life. He advised them : ‘ Do not get depressed when you are facing the unhappy experience and do not get excited, when you are facing a joyous experiences. Keep a stabilized mind’.
Lord Krishna is a sociologist, who gave the warning that the society follows the foot steps of the great men. Great men should always be careful when they do/ tell/ comment about anything or about anybody.
Lord Krishna is a social reformer, who gave the status of Rajapatnee ( Just like Mao Tse Tung, in China gave national women status for the women prisoners when he released them from Chinese jail) for thousands (16000) of women prisoners who were in the jail of Narakasura.
Lord Krishna is a physicist who said that energy and matter can neither be created nor be destroyed, if one form of energy and matter changes, it will appear in another form
Lord Krishna is a philosopher who said that successes and failures are part of everyone’s life. One has to face them philosophically.
Lord Krishna was a king maker , but never became a king even in Dwaraka. That was obvious in his performance even after Kurukshetra war.
Lord Krishna consoled everyone using applied philosophy and by taking their pain and also by giving a rational explanation of cause and effect theory for the misery in their life.
Lord Krishna kept his words of impartiality, by giving his own soldiers (Yadava sena) to Kouravas and standing himself with the Pandavas in the Kurukshetra war.
Lord Krishna kept the universal truth that none is enemy or friend to a divine power/god . He proved that everyone is equal to the almighty (god) by not taking a weapon (by himself) against Kouravas. He never treated those who are standing with Kouravas were his enemies
Lord Krishna proved himself that even the Avataras -incarnation of gods- cannot keep themselves away from performing the dharma entrusted upon them. If they do not perform their dharma, the rule of the nature will collapse.
Lord Krishna showed the viswaroopa in Kurukshetra for informing Arujuna and others, that what has told as the message of Bhagavath Geetha is the rule of the nature bestowed upon each and every individual.
Lord Krishna showed the viswaroopa to Duryodhana to warn him that he (Krishna) is unconquerable by any force or power when adharma is performed.
Lord Krishna showed the viswa roopa to Bhishma on the banks of river Ganga to inform the world that he is approachable to anyone who wishes to reach him through devotion , Bhakti, for getting the blessings, wherever they are .
Lord Krishna showed that he can bow his head before anyone and can even go ‘down to earth’ and demonstrate the level of patience by listening to everyone and to any type of defaming words , even that of Sisupala .
Lord Krishna showed the world that , whoever is on the path of adharma, need not be tolerated. Hence Krishna even did not hesitate to kill his own uncle who was literally following adharma every minute of his life. Thus Krishna protected dharma.
Lord Krishna showed the world that if Adharmic forces are powerful in a war, use the adharmic force of the same coin , to annihilate adharma, because dharma has to survive for the welfare of the society .
Lord Krishna advised Arjuna, even though, Bhishma and Drona are the men with name and fame, who know all the principles of dharma and should be respected with all honor, they were in the side of adharma . Hence one need not pardon them nor respect them while fighting in the battle field. The battle field is the place where the test for the success of dharma and failure of adharma are aimed at.
Lord Krishna showed the far sightedness by putting the idol of Bhima to Drutharashtra, when the latter tried to embrace and insult the former .
Lord Krishna was a Dharmacharya, who advised Dharmaputra, that he will not incur any sin by killing Drona or Bhishma, or any of the relatives or gurus, because the war was for protecting the dharma and protecting the country is the duty of the Kashatriya.
Lord Krishna was a great mediator and advocate of peace to one and all, all over the Bharata varsha and world.
Lord Krishna was a great, colleague who could give the help and support at the time of crisis in life as seen in the life of Sudhama/ Kuchela.
Lord Krishna did not allow Balarama to stay where dharma based war was taking place, without participating in the side of dharma. He informed Balarama that every avatara has to protect the dharma, if not possible keep away from the place where the action for protecting the dharma is taking place. He said ‘Oh Balarama, you may better go to pilgrimage….if you cannot stand with dharma’
Lord Krishna did not prevent even the self annihilation of his own people ( Vrushni vamsa) as he knew that they are leading themselves the worst quality life. They can ruin the society with all negative qualities. Better themselves killed, than the society affected by their misbehaviors.. said Krishna
Lord Krishna took the hunter with him, who became the cause of Krishna’s death and he never cursed the hunter.
Lord Krishna is the protector of all. He never took the sins of others on his shoulders, but he corrected the people to become sinless and lead the dharma based life.
Lord Krishna did not die for sinners, but lived for making sinners non sinners and for guiding them to the sinless pathway.
Lord Krishna never cursed anyone in his life, but blessed everyone, including those who cursed him (Gandhari, Uttanga, and so on).
He never cried and begged to god to protect him, when the hunter sent the arrows, resulted in the dehatyaga of lord Krishna.
Lord Krishna was a leader of the soldiers of dharma and not a shepherd for innocent people . Wherever Krishna was present, he was the leader, protector, guide, friend and advisor. He always advised everyone to depend on their own courage and strength. The divine power is within and not in the sky….
Lord Krishna never ‘get himself in the trap of Satans’, or cried for the mercy of ‘gods in the sky’.
Lord Krishna never cursed anyone or anything even the so called enemies, or even those who defamed him in many occasions. He acted as a model for others even under very crucial situations.
Lord Krishna never said take my body or drink my blood for removing the sin of the devotees. The sin of the people is to be removed by those whocommitted the sin by dharmic actions. Gods or avataras cannot become the wholesale dealers of the sin of the sinners.
Lord Krishna could see the friends and foes within and outside and could do the needful, so that none could jump from one side to the other for money or power as it is told in the stories of other religion.
Lord Krishna was a great mediator for all issues in the society just like he was for Pandavas.
Lord Krishna’s Bhagavath Geetha is a subject of curriculum in hundreds of modern Universities world over, due exclusively to the merits of the messages, not because of the ‘fear of the god’.
It is said that in hundreds of schools in the developed countries Bhagavath Geeta is chanted with the morning prayers.
It is said that Pope has given an instruction that Christian priests also should learn Bhagavath Geeta.
Lord Krishna’s approach of management is the part of modern integrated management curriculum, which even the western, developed society has adopted as a part of their life style.

Shaiju

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Rashmi : Lord Krishna is an avatar in human form of Lord Maha Vishnu. Having been born in human form, He lived like a human but showing His Godliness at various times. Living for 125 yrs is considered as Poornayus ( complete life) which for a human can extend to 125 yrs but does not mean that all humans reach that age. Lord Rama, Vamana and Parasurama are other aspects of Lord Mahavishnu in human form. In the Gita Lord Krishna says that he will be born again and again as required to destroy evil and establish righteousness (Parithranaya Sadhunam ,Vinayashacha dushkritam ,Dharma samsthapanarthyam, Sambhavami Yuge yuge).

OM,

Venkat Hari

-------------------------------------------------
Is KrishNa Godhead?

To understand how KrishNa is THE SUPREME, you may want to listen to the ardent overtures from our humble Saadhaka ... Vaasudevah Sarvamiti!

It is not the form of existence that entirely represents the Godhead ... it is the stream (rather flood) of awareness that pours out from it that makes it radiant to be THAT! If you do not realize this even after studying the Bhagavadgita, I suggest, better get serious :).

As a matter of fact, can there be anything but that SUPREME. If you can't receive the Sura Gangaa of awareness within (from any thought, organ or a cell within) and around (from any action, object or a galaxy around) ... study NarayaNa Sookta ... study Purusha Sookta ... carefully ... at your subtlest care ever ...

Try to see The Vaasudeva in every nook and corner of His Vasu (HOME).

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

-------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rshmi Ji,

I think your son's question is natural and it is only such enquiry one can understand better.
Please tell your son that in Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna and the Supreme (Parabrahman) are used
interchangebly. It becomes abundantly clear in many verses, for example Chapter 4 beginning verses:

4:1
I taught this eternal yoga to Vivasvat.
Vivasvat taught Manu and
Manu taught Ikshvaku.
Vivasvat is the sun; Manu and Ikshvaku are his descendents,
and patriarchs of the famous solar dynasty.

4:2
Thus handed down
in regular succession,
the rajarishis knew this.
(A rajarishi is one who is both a king and a sage).
But over the long course of time
the yoga seems to be lost in the world.
(Over time, the eternal yoga gets cluttered by tradition and
complicated by excessive scholarship; thus, it is practically lost).

Also it is Sri Bhagavaan uvaacha in Bhagavad-Gita; note it is not Krishna Bhagavaan uvaacha or
Bhagavaan Krishna uvaacha! Like when we say alcohol, it means ethanol which gets people high!
Theer are countless other alcohols like Methyl alcohol, iso-propyl alcohol, Retinol (Vitamin A)-
but when you say alcohol, it is ethanol. In this spirit, Bhagavad-Gita uses Bhagavan.
We also say, "Sri Krishna parabrahmane namah".

I am sure your son will also ask even the question which (unfortunately) Arjuna did not ask.
Namely, why was the yoga taught before was lost?
May be our notes in the parenthesis to above 2 shlokas will predict how it was lost.

We recently translated Bhagavad-Gita, especially keeping EVERYBODY in mind.
I co-authored with my nephew who is 31 years younger to me!).
Encourage your son to read it for free on line.
You can read the book for free on our website: http://newbhagavadgita.in/2009/01/contents.html

Regards

KST
-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Sri Krishna took Arjuna in HIS divine chariot to Vaikunt to relieve dead children of a Bhramin. There Sri Vishnu sees Krishna and talks to him about the dead children. But Arjuna sees that Sri Vishnu and Sri Krishna appearance is similar. Ordinary man cannot travel to Vaikunt. Even travelling at light speed of 1,84,000 Km per second one may take months to reach there. Besides in Srimath Bagavath it clearly says that how a soul travels to Vaikunt and in each stage in space/worlds there are devathas handing over and other devathas taking over. Finally once reaching Vaikunt one has to take bath in Virja River and then the soul sets in eternal peace and happiness. If one wants to see how Vaikunt looks like can Visit Guruvayoou in India. So Sri Krishna going with Arjuna to Vaikunt just like that in NO time and it is is NOT possible unless Sri Krishna is embodiment of Sri Vishnu. Sri Krishna when hit by an arrow sent by Jara at last times, Sri Krishna vanished but not died like ordinary man. sri Krishna speaks to his parents Devaki and Vasudev on the day of Birth to carry HIM and leave HIM in Gokulam. HE was born with 4 arms and on request of Vasudev, the infant Sri Krishna makes his 2 arm disappear and remains with 2 arms. This is NOT possible by ordinary child. Besides Sri Visnu HIMSELF cannot come on this earth to kill demons and Kans (Devaki brother), so AMSAM came to this earth as Krishna. Christians pray Jesus. But Jesus often calls as, "Oh my father in heavens". Does it means Jesus is NOT God. HE is messenger of God or can be said embodiment of God. By praying Sri Krishna it goes only to Sri Visnu. There was cowherd who was keen on saying Mantra to see God. He repeatedly approached a saint who was doing Tapas. The saint in distress said a word which meant buffalo head. This man was earnestly was daily praying using that word. Sri Vishnu appeared and blessed him. The saint having come to know this, he felt ashamed of his act. So prayer having diverse knowledge lead to doubts and lastly no results. A fruit seller went to heaven by giving fruit to krishna in exchange of Moksha. A pot maker Dathibanda hid Krishna in a big pot as HE wanted to hide. After sometime when Krishna shouted from inside the pot, Dathibanda asked Krishna to him Moksha and only then he will release Sri Krishna. For the smallest brain of human, one needs to have faith than knowledge of interrogation. Sri Adi sankara in Vivekachudamani says, " studying sastras, arguing about God, doing prayer to different devathas, etc will lead to thousands of births rather than simple belief to believe God in a stone" Bagavan Shiva came to earth many time like man.
B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------------------

Dear Friend,
i am not any gurujan nor any saint so as per my knowledge i would like to clear
you that the 'Krishna' is not the lord. he is only symbol of every mankind who
is living. When he (Krishna)says that all the world is included him, he means
that all the world is in 'every mankind'. all the other things are same thing.

you need not to worry who is god because god is no where but everywhere. you
must understand that 'Bhavna' is supreme. As you think while you doing any work,
you get fruit. all the things (living / no-living ) are part of nature, they
never dies only the position is changes. As a water, sand, clay, fire and air
makes a brick, objects are made with nature. It may be god.

thanks....

i may further explain your querry if you want?

----Sunder Lal, Chandigarh

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Rashmi Patelji - Krishna was incarnation of lord Vishnu, he has taken birth as human being and the life cycle has to end to come to a original form.
Hope above clarifies.

Om Bhagvate Vasudevaya

BALAGURU RAMANAN

--------------------------------------------

the best way to teach your son is to take him to the nearest temple, often and on festivals, and share with him , all the daily puja rituals.Â

gita is not a book, it is a life style, by which only one can understand it.

jai shree krishna

Ashok Gupta

-----------------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram

While you receive responses, please take the time to read GITA MADHURYA with your son - http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html

You can also listen to the AUDIO version along with your son. It take two to three hours to complete and it will clarify many doubts.
GITA MADHURYA
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/audio.html

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Thursday, December 29, 2011

[gita-talk] Re: Clarification - Is Krishna the Supreme Lord?

 

Shree Hari Ram Ram

At this time we bring closure to this topic, unless Rashmiji want's further clarification. We are grateful for all the responses.
THANK YOU !
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

---------------------------------------
All respected gurujanos,

I live in USA & my son who is born here had some clarification on lord krishna if you all can guide him really would be a blessings from you all

He thinks since krishna was born & had a history of father -mother & also he died at 125 years is he consider as a suprem lord or its like because he was a miracle type people made him like a lord?
because my son says he would definatly believe in lord shiva & vishnu as supreme lord because they are not born or had history of dying, so he thinks they are lord, so please let me know on this.
He also believes in lord Ganesh. since he is son of lord shiva but for some reason confused in krishna

Rashmi Patel

------------------------------------------------

This topic has come more than few times
Can we suggest the moderator
How many is enough to make move
Perhaps the author of the question guide
Is it enough or more needed
Ths
Dinesh Patel
--------------------------------------------------
Dear Ones, Namaste!
In all humility, I would like to make observations on "Vasudev Servameti" (BG:7/19), referring to dialogues between Sadhaka, and Niteeshji!
I think in the context that we need to understand this statement is important. "All that is here is Brahman - Consciounsess", "Brahmeva jiva na par ( Jiva is verily Brahman, not other)" are statements in Upanishadas, equivalent of BG 7/19 and made from the absolute point of view, from God's perspective so to speak, which is Truth.
Obviously, if we take any "being" as individual body-mind organism, then he/she cannot be Vasudeva because it is already a false stand being taken as an individual he/she is not! Like wave cannot claim to be the ocean as long as it really believes it is separate wave having independent existence apart from Ocean. However, we need to understand that wave is ignorance on the part of Ocean considering itself a limited entity, wave, like most do.
Ocean(as wave) can realize even as it remains as wave form that it is Ocean only all the way, and it itself doesn't even exist except in ignorance! So, then wave is verily Ocean unlimited. It is Ocean waving, playing Divine Drama Leela!

Upon realization on the part of the identified consciousness(soul/Jiva) that he/she doesn't even have existence apart from Supreme Consciousness or regains the lost memory of his true nature - swaroopa, individuality gets surrendered and is Vasudev only! There is no individual being at all, only Supreme Consciousness which is ONE BEING in all that IS!
It is important to see that Vasudev servam is Realization only in that body-mind organism, not that it becomes Vasudeva, because IT IS Vasudeva already! There was/is never an Individual entity! This is experiential or anubhutiroopah.
Thus ultimately, anyone realizing that Only God exists in Truth, he/she is only an appearance, not reality, and is as such God only, devoid of any assumed limitations!
When we say being is not Vasudeva, it is because being is not reality, it is assumed limitation, so it has to denied, and that is why we say "being is not Vasudeva, but Vasudeva is all beings".
Thus, Arjuna is also Vasudeva, even in the form he is in upon realization of his true identity!
To me, Sadhaka and Niteeshji are both right from their own perspectives if this is what they meant!

Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt

------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam,

Dear Respected SaadhakJi,

I read that page referred by you. I do not disagree with this in its absolute meaning. To go deeper towards realizing this absolute truth, I would suggest you to study the whole flow from 7/4 to 7/19 which concludes at "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" without skipping 7/12-7/16 and then try to find out for yourself (this should not be answered by some one else as it is can not be analyzed/examined by intellect) from where the "TRIBHIR-GUNA-MAYAI-BHAAVAI" ( note that it is not in VAASUDEV / SARVAM ; NA TU AHAM TESHHU TE MAYI - 7/13) has come and why the Lord has used the words "BHAJANTE" and "PRAPADYATE" towards realizing the truth "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI". Note that "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" should not be limited by the intellect, influenced by TRAIGUNA and the part of the APARAA/lower PRAKRRITI nature of VAASUDEV. It (i.e. VAASUDEV SAVAM ITI ) is not the object of the intellect. It is attained only by the surrender of the Self to the Supreme Self (i.e. the innermost Self of every beings & everything ).

On your other concern, first of all All, SwamiJi does not say wrongly. One need to understand the essence in deep and in the context. Do you think SwamiJi would say "the Supreme Lord KRISHNA, in whom is everything, by whom everything proceeds, the controller of the PRAKRRITI/MAAYAA, can come under the influence of his own MAAYAA and be deluded"? If you say yes, then there is no point of even talking/trying to cross the domain of MAAYAA as even if one goes beyond it, will eventually be back under its influence. If not, then how ARJUN of Bhagavad Gita who was once deluded can be equated to Lord KRISHNA?

Again, a name is used to refer to what it means and in which context. One is free to call anything /any being / himself /herself Supreme but he/she should not forget the meaning/essence of the Supreme. The Supreme is not the one who once was under the influence of PRAKRRITI/MAAYAA and then later becomes free (i.e. MAAYAATEET) from it. The Supreme is ever free from MAAYAA and is ever the controller (MAAYAADHEESH) of his own MAAYAA & the beings under MAAYAA (i.e. MAAYAADHEEN). Since, MAAYAA, MAAYAADHEEN, MAAYAATEET are all of the Supreme, therefore the Supreme is EVERYTHING (i.e. VAASUDEVA SARVAM ITI). Yes! until the Truth is realized, as a part of saadhanaa, one can have the view of seeing the Supreme in every things/beings (including Arjun, Saadhak, Niteesh, Vyas...) irrespective of the names, forms, conscious levels towards attain the Supreme. Here, the key is the Supreme/VAASUDEV and not the others.

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey

------------------------------------------
TO ALL CONTRIBUTORS HERE IN GITA TASLK -
IF LIVING BEINGS (as stated by Shree Vyas NB) ARE "OTHER THAN VASUDEV" , IF NON-LIVING BEINGS also ARE "OTHER THAN VASUDEV", THEN WHAT IS TERMED VASUDEV in Gita 7:19? THAT LIMITED VASUDEV, WHO IS LIMITED TO KRISHNA ONLY CAN'T BE BE "SARVAM" AS THAT LIMITED VASUDEV EXCLUDES SO MANY LIVING AND NON-LIVING BEINGS.
I beg your pardon here and finish this submission without accepting whatever is said WITHOUT STATING "DOOJAA KAHAAN SE AAYAA?"
Humbly
Saadhaka.

------------------------------------------

Hari Om

What was the original Q and where are we? Why do we get away from the very object of GT Group? Take for example, an innocent Q from son of Rashmiji. Her son had trouble in accepting Krishna to be God. Instead of clarifying her Question, we are deliberating now as to how every Narottam or Sarvottam or Radha or Mira is God ! Ha...!

It is time to cure. Why? Because any insistence , however genuine that may be, is improper. 'Nigrah Kim Karishyati' ..says Gita - means 'insistence does not help'. If we carry forward this concept of Vasudev Sarvam without looking at its essence, that day will not be far away when every Jeeva shall say: I am Bhagwaan..I am God.."Hey..Is Gita 7:19 false?" ! Imagine the chaos then !!! Already a clear trend towards that is visible. We have self proclaimed Gods in every street. Scriptures predicted such trend centuries ago. This Divine Forum is a small Forum but is a genuine one dedicated to Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Swamiji never liked any one claiming to be Guru or God. We are sadhaks and our aim should be to remain so. He was asked thousands of questions (Just As: In this Divine GT Forum hundreds of Qs are asked) ..in how many answers did He insist on BG 7:19? Reply...!!!

So It is time to cure.

Gita 7:18 first. 'Jnani tvatmaiva me mata' ..That Jnani is My aatma (soul) . That is how Lord Krishna views such Jnani. It is His view not that of Jnani. On the contrary, such Jnani takes refuge in Him(7:19). Such Jnani considers entire world to be pervaded by Him...sure ! But such Jnani does not consider himself to be Lord...Never. If he and God are the same, how can the question of his surrender to Him arise? Why should he surrender to himself? He surrenders to Lord, who according to him is the source of all including him. Such Jnani can surrender only when he considers Jagdish to be superior than him (Jeeva).

Rightly therefore said Sankaracharyaji:

SATYAPI BHEDAAPAGAME NAATH TAVAAHAM NA MAAMAKI NATSWAM |
SAAMUDRON HI TARANG KVACHAN SAMUDRO NA TAARANGA ||

Here, Shri ShankarachaaryaJi says to Lord VishNu: It is true that the differences between "I" and "You" have gone but still "I am your's and you are not mine" in the same way as "wave is of ocean but ocean is not of wave".

Enough Qs have been asked. Enough distractions have taken place from the original topic. Now it is our turn to ask Qs to Humble Sadhak..curing process..sure :

There is a person referred in Gita 16:14 who says: ..Ishwaroham ahambhogi siddhoham balvaan sukhi..(I am God..I am consumer of worldly pleasures..I am powerful..I am happy ( Don't you know as to Who am I ?) ! Now the person referred in this sloka is also claiming : I am God...! If you apply Vasudev Sarvam as an equation, what is wrong with that man referred by Lord in chapter 16? Why he should be thrown to hells and why Vasudev should meet with him there in the form of horrible pains ..moodhe janmani janmani (16:20) ..birth after birth ? Why? What has he claimed? He simply felt: I am God. What is wrong in his claim? Is Gita 7:19 false?

Lord Krishna said in 13:12..na satnashduchyate...I am said to be neither sat nor asat ! Why? Is Gita 7:19 false? Same Lord Krishna said in 9:19 ..Sadsachhahamrjuna..I am sat as well as asat. How come, Dear Humble Sadhak? Further, He said in 15:18.. Yasmaat ksharamateetoham aksharadapichottam - I am beyond perishable (prakruti/Jagat) and I am superior to imperishable (Purusha/Jeeva). He goes on to say: I am Purushottam ! How can God proclaim Himself to be superior to Jeeva when all is God ? Is Gita 7:19 false? Reply..Dear Humble Sadhak ! It is a Q to you? Is Gita false?

Lord Krishna said in 9:6/7: All Jeevas reside in Me, but I don't reside in them. Then He said in 7:12/9:6-10 .. Neither they are in Me, nor I am in them ! Thhen He said in 7:6/7: Mattah parataram naanyat kinchidast Dhananjay...! Then He said in chapter 9:27 or 28 about His Bhaktas ..I am in them , they are in Me..why only Bhaktas? What is devoid of Him? Why not others? Does that mean 7:6/7 are false ? Why not those who are referred in chapter 16 stating : "Ishvaroham" are getting excluded ? Are they not God? Why not all other Jeevas? Is Gita 7:19 false?

Lord says in 9:11 - "Avjaananti maam moodha.." Who are those "moodhas" ? Why their desires, karmas, knowledge etc are 'mogh' (futile) ? Is Gita 7:19 false? Refer 7:14 also..why those people are stated to be 'dushkritana moodha..naradhama' ? Why? Is Gita 7:19 false ?

Reply..Sir..It is a Q to Humble Saadhak. Asking Qs is one thing and replying is another. You have quoted Sadhak Sanjeevani one page..how many shall I quote ?

Sadhaks should refrain from reading Gita using intellect..it then becomes a riddle, a grand riddle...still as valid, divine, and correct as before ! Said Swamiji: You can understand Gita the best by surrendering to it. Why did Swamiji say so? Why you should surrender, when All is God..you are also God? To whom do you surrender? Is Gita 7:19 false?

Let us not encourage people claiming: "Hey I am also God." No verse including 7:19 entitles a Jeeva to claim equality with Jagdish..no verse ! Already enough claimants are there on this planet stating : Ishwaroham ahambhogi...!!! "Aham Brahmasmi" ..this is not 'sadhana goal" ...! Where is Brahma when there is 'aham' ? Where is 'aham' in Brahma? Ha...!!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Shri Hari

Just read this in facebook - http://www.facebook.com/sadhaksanjivani

This is not specifically for Rashmiji, but for other sadhaks in the discussion. Swamiji never fails in providing the insights at the right time regarding the discussion that is going on.

Sadhak Sanjeevani (Swami Ramsukhdasji) - Detailed Commentary on the Gita
The surrender of a man of wisdom, is different from that of a sufferer, the seeker of knowledge, and a seeker of wealth. So, the Lord has called him His own self (7/18) because according to him, there is none other entity, besides the Lord. The Lord Himself declares, `Like clusters of yarn-beads formed by knots on a thread, all this is threaded on Me' (7/7). As in a rosary made of yarn-beads, there is nothing besides yarn, so in the world, there is nothing, besides God. One who realizes this fact, is said to take refuge, in Him. This realization is, real surrender to Him. (SS 7/19)

meera das, ram ram

--------------------------------------------

Shree Niteesh Dubeyjee!
Swameejee explained 'Vaasudev: sarvam' on page 497 of Saadhaka Sanjeevanee (Fifth Edition samvat 2044) and there He asked a question. Kindly answer that question first.
After stating, 'is prakaar jab aadi aur antamen jab ek bhagawaan hee rahate hain tab beechamen doosaraa kahaanase aayaa?'
Also my question to be answered is, 'doosaraa hai hee kahaan?'
One more thing : Either all names are of God's or NO names refer to God. How can Vaasudev be differentiated from Krishna or Arjun or Vishnu or Lakshmee or Ganga or Himalaya or whatever that can be named? Do you mean Swameejee stated wrongly, 'isaliye yah sab Vaasudev hee hai.' ?
Please guide me towards what is IS.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

--------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Ha...! I agree in toto with Sadhak Neetish Dubey. MOST CERTAINLY , all Narottams, Sarvottams, Dubeys, Prataps, Nagas, Madhavs, Keshavs, Mikes, Rashmis, Shashikalas, etc etc of this world ARE NOT..are not...are not... "Vasudev" referred in Gita 7:19 ! Most Certainly !

One should NEVER be 'matvaadi' ( a person stuck, like with fevicol, with one view) ! One should be 'tatvaadi' ( a person viewing the 'essence' of any view ) ! Vasudev Sarvam is concept needing you to 'experience' essence.. not talk of letter ...! Quoted Param Shraddhey Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj many times the immortal words of a Saint:

MATWAADI JAANE NAHIN TATWAADI KI BAAT ! SOORAJ UGE ULLUVA GINE ANDHERI RAAT !!

A person obsessed/ stuck with a concept/view point can never understand/know talk of a person who understands the 'essence'. Just as: An owl considers dawn (rising of the Sun) to be a dark and cloudy night !!

An obsession with Vasudev Sarvam is indeed such and therefore according to me, Scriptures prohibit you to refrain from just talking casually about the same..! One ought to be serious..a rare JNANI..a Mahatma...!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Why children? Even the elders are beseized with such doubts. To clarify at the outset one must understand the very concept of Divine Gods and Goddesses in Sanatan philosophy ( popularly known as Hindu philosophy). I may suggest that the following articles be read where the concept has been discussed.
"One God, many gods Part 1&2" in May and June 2006 issues of Ahwan magazine. Search the web for ahwan org - God bless all - Sri Bimal Mohanty

---------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!
All such questions from our children or anyone must be answered as best as we can and I think all sadhakas have answered them in the best possible ways too!
So, I will say this: It is all right to discuss whether or not Krishna is Supreme Lord, but I would emphasize the following point!
It is more important to find out what does Supreme Lord mean to me? Is the body of Krishna, born and died was Krishna's essence? Is a body of anyone else, for that matter, alone an essence of that person?
As Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu, Ganesha all may be in our mind as ideas, symbols, images, beliefs, based on what people, scriptures, have told us and what we may have seen in movies, or TV serials.
What do these mean in terms of my daily life? Shouldn't we inquire and find out what is behind these names? If these names don't bring about devotion, right knowledge, compassion, Love, Peace, what values do they have in believing who is Supreme and who is not!
I think we should help ourselves as well as our children who asks such questions by inspiring them to find answers to such questions!
To me, this will have more meaning in addition to answering what we have done here!
Namaskr...........Pratap Bhatt

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Just meditate and imagine one single entity having myriad of forms ploughing upon every existence in cosmos,you may start realizeing his greatness,HE is very explained in Holy Bhagwat Gita in chapter 9 sloka 5.Just don't be confused by tales or pictures.
subhashtewari

-----------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam,

Dear SaadhakJi,

Your finding is correct that the string "KRISHNA" is not found in those verses. But, I did not mean and expect you to look for the string or its spelling in those verses. I think we all know that the use of any word in any communication lies in what it means/points/refers to. I mentioned what is stated/meant by BHGAVAAN KRISHNA about himself or what is stated by Arjun & Sanjay about BHAGAVAAN KRISHNA who is also referred by many other names (e.g. VAASUDEV - 11/50, 18/74, VISHNU, HARI, MAADHAV, JANAARDAN, KESHAVA, HRRISHEKESH, MADUSOODAN, KESHINISOODAN, ARISOODAN, GOVIND,........) in the Bhagavad Gita but the same SUPREME can be referred by any other name not mentioned in Bhagavad Gita. I hope it helps you understand the fact.

Regarding your question/comment " if ONLY Krishna is 'Vasuev: Sarvam' and Arjun and ALL beings are NOT, then why do we say Gita 7 : 19 is not False?".

The Gita 7/19 says ...
After many births, the GYAANI BHAKTA who PRAPADYATE/surrenders to me (MAAM) and claims/realizes the truth "VASUDEV SARVAM ITI" is really the great soul (MAHAATMAA) found in very high rarity (SUDURLABHA).

If we pay attention to this shloka. It calls the one who makes such claim MAHAATMAA but there is no any indication that it becomes VAASUDEV. So, in my understanding, any being can never be VAASUDEV but VAASUDEV is everything including that being as all the materials of the beings are of the Supreme. The same can be seen in that case of Arjun. Arjun does not claim that He has become VAASUDEV even after getting his delusion destroyed, he says "KARISHYE VACHANAM TAV" (18/73) although the truth is "VAASUDEV is Arjun also" (10/37). If a being claims it is VAASUDEV, it is not the being but the VAASUDEV only.

This may be more clear by the following line of VISHNU-KSHATAPADI by Sri ShankaraachaaryaJi.

SATYAPI BHEDAAPAGAME NAATH TAVAAHAM NA MAAMAKI NATSWAM |
SAAMUDRON HI TARANG KVACHAN SAMUDRO NA TAARANGA ||

Here, Shri ShankarachaaryaJi says to Lord VishNu:
It is true that the differences between "I" and "You" have gone but still "I am your's and you are not mine" in the same way as "wave is of ocean but ocean is not of wave".

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey

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--kindly listen to krishna bhajans  all your misunderstandings will be blown d=off and ask your son also to listen to then there are so many cds available nowadays this is my humble suggestion .jai shree krishna .if ypu allow me i can suggest you some .

Chaman nigam
---------------------------------------------

Shree Niteesh Dubeyjee!
Saadhaka couldn't find the very word 'Krishna' in any of the verses cited by you as below :
KRISHNA is Param Brahm ! (10/12)
KRSIHNA is the Supreme Knowable! (9/17, 11/18, 15/15, 13/12)
KRISHNA is Supreme Abode ! (10/12)
KRISHNA is the Abode of Brahm, Dharma, Bliss, Peace, Nirvaan! (14/27, 6/15)
KRISHNA is Supreme Ishwar of all the lokas & beings! (4/6, 5/29, 9/11, 10/3, 15/17)
KRSIHNA is ParamAatma! (15/17)
KRISHNA is Aadi Purushha! (15/4,10/12, 11/38)
KRISHNA is Maha Yogeshwar! (11/9)
KRSIHNA is the inner-most soul of all the beings! (10/20)
KRISHNA is Eternal Father, Mother, Teacher, Friend of every beings! (9/17, 11/43, 5/29, 9/18)
KRSIHNA is Supreme, nothing is beyond him, everything is within him, everything is from him! (7/7, 10/8)
KRISHNA is Everything (7/19)!
In verse 19 of Chapter 7 also there is no word Krishna.
Brother, please guide me to correct my understanding that if ONLY Krishna is 'Vasuev: Sarvam' and Arjun and ALL beings are NOT, then why do we say Gita 7 : 19 is not False?
Humbly,
Saadhaka.
-------------------------------------------------
Rashmiji,

Sorry if I sound harsh. Whenever I fail to respond to seemingly irking questions from my son, or anyone else as a matter of fact, it just reveals the fact that my appreciation on the subject is lacking, if not, insufficient at the least.

Therefore, my suggestion is to strengthen your appreciation encore regarding what you think is KrishNa! Just like any concept or idea, KrishNa is also oblivious to start with. Arjuna is an excellent example for learning KrishNa, The Vaasudeva or any other spiritual idea.

KrishNa is simply a distant idea to start with for Arjuna ... a distant cousin. Once they meet, the friendship spurts from the association that grows deeper and deeper. KrishNa becomes his best well-wisher as the vested trust and affection grows deeper.

KrishNa becomes his comrade and ambassador to promote his well-being as his faith in the wisdom on the other end grows! The same trust grows KrishNa to become his guide for living which KrishNa does whole-heartedly. How can He just ignore the deep-grown trust and affection from his dearest friend?!

The same trust grows into reverence as Arjuna starts visualizing a great teacher in KrishNa. He just surrenders himself empowering his dear friend to rule his understanding with the abundant wisdom that KrishNa oozes out.

The reverence to a teacher turns into an abyss of devotion in the disciple as his Tanu (body), Mana (mind) as well as Dhana (core existence) is disciplined, cleansed and filled with that very devotion. The disciple turns devotee of highest rank as the action as well as the thought converges into Devotion, a deep-sensed surrender to The Lord.

As the devotion grows deeper, the fellow starts rising to newer and subtler horizons of appreciation of The Universal Truth radiating from his beloved fellow being,cousin,friend, well wisher, teacher,AND Lord. The Lord becomes the revered opportunity to the devotee for self-emancipation (Manonaasha) as well as Self Awareness (Aatmabodha). The devotee turns an ardent Mumukshu yearning for an eternal merger with The Truth.

As the Mumukshattva grows into subtler awareness ... Arjuna BECOMES nothing and KrishNa REMAINS AS EVER ...

Therefore, Rashmiji, charm and mend your appreciation on what KrishNa is for yourself. Automatically THAT oozes out from you and seeps into the fellow beings ... naturally ... eventually ...

Rashmiji, with my experience, I can assure you that KrishNa happily plays any and all roles that one can ever conceive ... nobody ... relative, friend, foe, ... guide, Guru, Bhagavaan ... THE TRUTH ...

HE IS. HE just IS.

It is up to us how we enable ourselves to see Him. We may refuse the vision as DhritaraashTra did ... we may embrace the vision with absolute reverence as Sanjaya did!

It is upto us how far we would like to grow into HIM :). We could be a Shishupaala and loathe the very idea ... are we could be a Uddhava and just be The KrishNa, be His shadow if manifestation is a must!

Accordingly our actions, thoughts and speech manifest for other's benefit.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

--------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Good he believes his father. If he can say you are also born like me and you will also died before me to his father- imagine the situation. This boys earlier birth Vasana is now being produced. Even during Sri Krishna`s period there was a king called Poundraka Vasudevan who was saying exactly the same this boy is now telling. I do not wish to say what happened to Poundraka Vasudevan.
B.Sathyanarayan

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i believe krishna is the supreme ,ultimate and is every thing -----
jai shree krishna
Chaman nigam

------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam!

Who is KrishNa?

Referring to Bhagavad Gita, Arjun is talking to his friend KRISHNA only who is referred as the Bhagavaan in "Shri Bhagavaan Uvaach" by Bhagavad Gita.

DRISHTVEVAM SWAJANAM KRISHNA - 1/28

NA KAANXYE VIJAYAM KRISHNA - 1/32

ADHARMAABHIBHAVAAT KRISHNA - 1/41

SANYAASAM KARMANAAM KRISHNA - 5/1

CHANCHALAM HI MANAH KRISHNA - 6/34

APRAAPYA YOGSANSIDDHA KAAM GATIM KRISHNA - 6/37

ETANME SANSHAYAM KRISHNA - 6/39

HE KRISHNA HE YAADAV HE SAKHETI - 11/41

TESHHAM NISHHTHAA TU KAA KRISHNA - 17/1

Sanjay is also referring to the same Bhagavaan of "Sri Bhagavaan Uvaach" as KRISHNA.

NAMASKRRITVAA BHOOYA EVAAH KRISHNAM - 11/35

YOGAM YOGESHWARAAT KRISHNAAT SAAXAAT - 18/75

YATRA YOGESHWAR KRISHNA - 18/78

If you can not accept this fact that KRISHNA is the same Bhagavaan as in "Sri Bhagavaan Uvaach", then I do not think you are reading Bhagavad Gita.

On the other hand, if you do not have any doubt about this fact that KRISHNA is the same Bhagavaan as in "Sri Bhagavaan Uvaach", then no imagination/logic/mapping is needed to understand who is KRISHNA as the same Bhagavad Gita says:
KRISHNA is the Param/Uttam Purushha (superior to immutable Purushha and beyond mutable Purushha) ! (15/19, 10/15, 8/22, 13/12, 11/37)

KRISHNA is Param Brahm ! (10/12)

KRSIHNA is the Supreme Knowable! (9/17, 11/18, 15/15, 13/12)

KRISHNA is Supreme Abode ! (10/12)

KRISHNA is the Abode of Brahm, Dharma, Bliss, Peace, Nirvaan! (14/27, 6/15)

KRISHNA is Supreme Ishwar of all the lokas & beings! (4/6, 5/29, 9/11, 10/3, 15/17)

KRSIHNA is ParamAatma! (15/17)

KRISHNA is Aadi Purushha! (15/4,10/12, 11/38)

KRISHNA is Maha Yogeshwar! (11/9)

KRSIHNA is the inner-most soul of all the beings! (10/20)

KRISHNA is Eternal Father, Mother, Teacher, Friend of every beings! (9/17, 11/43, 5/29, 9/18)

KRSIHNA is Supreme, nothing is beyond him, everything is within him, everything is from him! (7/7, 10/8)

KRISHNA is Everything (7/19)!

May The Supreme Lord KrishNa bless all!
Niteesh Dubey

--------------------------------------------
Rashmi Patel . . .

The answer you give your child, will depend on his age. . . . LOL. ..

IF , the child is old enough to understand, what narinder would say to him , IS :

The supreme, the Lord of lords, the Light of lights . . . is NOT a name ..... and is , therefore , all names . . .

The Name that is music to your Heart and Soul is the Name for you . . .

To narinder .. there is No sweeter music than the chimes that resonate from the name Kruishna, Kruishna Kruishna . . .

Krishna it is . . . and Krishna it shall remain . . . . Krishna , Krishna , Krishna . . .

Krishna is Rama..... Krishna Shiva .. .. Krishna is Ganesha . . . .Lo !

Krishna, who is the self in all . . . not the body born, but THAT un-nameable Consciousness ,

who can not NOT be Shiva and Ganesh too !.

SO, dear son .....

Shiva it is . . Shiva Shiva, Shiva . . . Om namo Shivaye . . .

Ganesha it is , yes . . . Jai Ganesh, Jai Ganesh, Jai Ganesh, Jai jai . . .

narinder bhandari

aum
-----------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

I have said often and without fail, that not every discussion can be co-related with the principle of Vasudev Sarvam. Vasudev Sarvam is a personal experience/realisation and not some mathematical equation or Law of Physics.

When I said : " Lord Krishna went back to His Abode", I meant He unmanifested from Human Form, and completed His Leela while remaining in the Form of Lord Krishna/ human and ceased to also remain in His Leela Form and human body (avtaar body). What has this statement got to do with His Omnipresence? His Omnipresence was there before He took avataar, it was there also during the period of His remaining in a Human Form (body) and it continues to be even after His completion of Leela in Human Form (body). Where is the suggestion to the contrary? How that statement affects, His Omnipresence? How can it?

In any case, almost entire of my message referred by you was copied, almost AS IT IS, from Sadhak Sanjeevani..Gita verse 'Janma Karma Me Divyam' .. BG 4:9 including the sentence quoted by you. When I write in this Divine Forum, I always meticulously try to quote, as far as practicable, the views of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj only..the presentation /selection/ order only is mine..as a rule, rest all are teachings as grasped by me from Swamiji's books/pravachans.. As a rule ! Accordingly, what I have stated , in this case, is quoted/ copied AS IT IS from Swamiji's immortal Treatise on Gita..Sadhak Sanjeevani ! Hence He also said in SS , BG 4:9, the same words "Lord Krishna went back to His Abode" ! Rightly so, because otherwise how will you express/ccommunicate the tenure of Lord Krishna's avtaar in Human Form? Can you tell me any other form of expression?

You are an ardent bhakta and believer in Gita and also follower of the teachings of Swamiji and hence please be happy that I have quoted AS IT IS from His book- Sadhak Sanjeevani !

Pranaams !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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As per the Upanishads and Gita, everything in this creation is nothing but a manifestation of God. God exists in everything and every where. God is never born or dead and He always exist in everything that is born , living, unliving, dead of transformed. So, your son, you are God as much as Krishna, Siva, Brahma and Bishnu are because God exists in and pervades everything. But all manifested forms of God do not exhibit the same features and do not show up all the main
properties of God. Some of the important properties of God is that God does not have a desire, does not have an ego of being a doer, He is unperturbed by whatever transformations that goes on in Him, He being the entire Creation. He is beyond material and sensual happiness and sorrow. He is immensely powerful and yet has no pride. He does not distinguish his various manifestations as different, good or bad. As a human being, Lord Krishna possessed all the properties. For Him kauravas were as dear as the Pandavas . He was unaffected, unperturbed by any event, even the consequences of the Kurukshetra War. He made efforts to prevent the War but never thought that He had failed to avert a War because He did not see himself as a doer. He did
nothing to satisfy His selfish goals if any. He was never angry. He was never rude. He was always calm and smiing. He was the mightiest among the people in his time. Since He was all properties of God personafied, He is equated with God.
As for Brhama, Bishnu, Shiva - they are also manifestations of God. They also exhibited many major properties of God. So they are the same God as well. The question of who is God or who issuperior does not arise. Such thinking is God's device to keep human beings search for God in vain. One who is able to perceive God in everything does not find that question meaningful
Basudeb Sen

-----------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

This question has caused me to reflect:

Lord Krishna, was born to queen Devaki at midnight in the prison. As soon as the child was born, Lord Vishnu appeared in divine form and the prison was filled with a dazzling light.

Jesus was born in a manger, and it was marked by a star, and angels were present.

Both appear to have come from the womb of a women.

Then both were made from the elements.

Strange entrance for the Lord of all.

Both parents of these two had to protect these two infants from death.

And what of Lord Shiva.

I followed a thread re Krishna was blue, multiple answers.

Juxtapose to all this: ' If there is development to a high degree in

understanding the complete absence of this delusion of the

world born like the colour of the sky, then, the nature of

Brahman (or the Absolute Reality) can be known; but not

through other action. There is no other auspicious means

except (the knowledge of) the complete absence of the

visible world (for the realisation of the Absolute).

The highest (or Absolute) Reality is not known at any

time by anybody without (realising) the impossibility of the

natural existence of this visible object, called the world.' [Vaasishha]

So as I see it In the 'Play of consciousness', Sri Krishna is supreme Lord as per Lila of those who bow to him, as Jesus is to those who bow to him, Shivi......

But beyond all that, all is Brahman.

Mike
------------------------------------------
There is only one Supreme Lord for the entire mankind who is ajo (not born), formless and Ineffable. Vedic Rsis named Thee Nirguna Brahman from ever expanding Brahmand. Vishnu from "one who spreads in Vishwa". Wise men describe Thee with different names. In Vedas Brahman and Vishnu are not the Names but Epithets. In Vedas Cosmic Word OM is Brahman.

As Adi Sankracharya says all others with attributes and form are Saguna Brahma- gods and not God.
Regards
Prem Sabhlok

--------------------------------------------
Dear Rashmiji:

Hari Om. God is both born, and unborn; with form and formless, and what else He is only He knows and only He can tell.

Lord Krishna (as also Ram & others) are incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

God is:

Generator
Operator, and
Destroyer of all that has been, is and will ever be.

In Hindu thought, Brahma is the Generator, Vishnu is the Operator and Shiva the Destroyer.

Operator has not only to work more and hard, He has to set standards for others to follow. So, all the incarnations
descend on the earth with the sole aim of demonstrating how a human should lead their life. Krishna did just that and so
He is an incarnation of God.

Thanks and regards,

Janardana N Mamtora
-------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Saadhaka question where can Sri Krishna go somewhere. When Radha Matha felt that Sri Krishna is in utmost love on her, carrying her from the group of Gopies, that moment Sri Krishna disappeared from her vision only. Radha wept and Gopies consoled her.
Sri Arvind Kaushik posted, (Though I am unborn, of imperishable nature, the Lord of all beings, yet, subordinating My nature (prakriti), I manifest Myself, through My Yogamaya). Like we say my leg and my hand considering this body, by Sri Vishnu Maya Sri Krishna appeared. The same doubt sri Naradhji had- So went to each wife of Sri Krishna and he saw Sri Krishna in each house with each wife at the same time. Bhramaji also had doubt on Sri Krishna- He took all Bala Gopas one day to his lok. But to his surprise he saw same bala gopas are there in his lok as well as in Gokulam on earth. For that Bhramaji sinned and had to do Tapas on this earth. My Deavaki, Arujuna, etc could not understand Sri Krishna when HE pretended to have head ache. Only Gopies understood. A gopi Chitayanthi got Moksha even without seeing Sri Krishna. When one Christ disciple suspected the raise from death - Christ said, "Blessed are those who believe in me without even seeing me". 13 Years Budha brother in law was with Budha but he was not blessed rather than a man who saw Bhuda only once. When kings and great rich men approached Budha to obtain his blessing with costly offerings (Which Budha gave it away same day to others), a farmer Soradoss obtain everlasting blessing from Budha by offering a Lotus flower and gained moksha. So making one to believe in Sri Krishna is impossible unless HE wishes. Great men like Bishma realized Sri Krishna very late, but Kunthi Matha realized much earlier to anyone. This is evident from the boon she asked Sri Krishna- "Oh Krishna please give me eternal Duk (Sufferings)". Are we not shamed by asking Bagavan give me this and that? Are we stopping with one request to Bagavan? One of the 12 Saints (Alwars) was asked by Sri Ramanuja to visit Sri Varadharaja in Kanchipuram to gain vision as he was blinded. When this saint went there, he simple sang a song and walked off. Sri Vishnu as Varadharaja called the saint and said why he forgot to get a boon to gain vision. Saint said, "Oh God this (Chaksus) eyes is perishable along with this body , why disturb you with my request". Mother Meera drank poison knowingly that this body without Krishna NOT worth living. But this poison was drank by Krishna, like in the case of Prahalad. That is Sarvam Vasudevam- If I find fault with any one,-- then my concept of Sarvam Vasudevam is LOST. One saint loved by Sri Ranganatha (Sri Visnu) was behind a woman. Another Baktha criticized. God said , you fellow have no business to point out my Baktha. I will take care of him. Since you found fault with him, I refrain from you.
B.Sathyanarayan

-----------------------------------------------
Dear sadaks,
Further to my earlier posting. When Sri Vyasji said, "Sri Krishna went
to HIS abode", means HE went to Vaikunt. Vaikunt is clearly and in
detail described in Srimath Bagavath, Vedas, and in Upanashids." Madam
Saadaka can understand that, Sri Krishna on earth completed HIS
mission and continues HIS control from Sri Vaikunt too. To kill demons
and people like Kans HE need to show a form. HIS form HE can became
invisible and visible as HE pleases. By this ordinary eyes one can
only see HIM as Krishna. With Divya Dristi Arjuna saw Sri Visnu and
pleaded to close that vision and give him normal Sri Krishna roop.
Only by Gyana Dristi one see HIM as Sri Vishnu. In Duryodhan Sabah,
Sri Krishna took Virat roop. How have seen it? Duryodhan seen it
partially but said it is black magic. The best example for Vasudevam
Sarvam- is- that Vasudev in Duryodhan illuminated as Magic because of
his Ahamkar. For Beshma, HE illuminated as GOD. For Dukshadan HE took
away blindness and gave HIS vision, but in him God never illuminated
as God. So to see HIM, one has to be tuned to that frequency called
Niskama Prema Bakthi. For man with green glasses, everything around
looks green and for red glasses. It is the glass that make look in
different colours, but the object is in original form. So God is the
unchanging, blissful etc, but it our mind (Glasses) makes us look
different. It is NOT HIS mistake but ours.From Vaikunt HE can come and
go any fraction of a second. Sri Krishna from Dwaraka gave robes to
Drowpati at Hastinapur while being disrobed. How this possible?
Think. He is omnipresent but not visible to everyone. Geetha says we
can see HIM by Gyana only. Geetha HE says to Arjuna,'' Bakthi I cant
give you Arjuna- you have to inculcate". There was a King in Kerala
earnestly trying to see Krishna. But failed for years. But his quest
was constant with faith over several years. Then he realized that his
kingly robes, guards, etc to be deserted and alone with most simple
clothes he stated visiting Guruvayur. He saw Krishna when his heart
melted with tears. The Palava king astrologer predicted, that he shall
die of snake bite on 3rd Poornima day. On advice and faith, he
traveled to Guruvayur and stayed alone. The snake did bite him, but he
arose from death. After that he constructed outer periphery wall of
today. This is called surrender in both cases. What illuminated these
2 men was faith & surrender that they saw Krishna. So if one start
with faith alone the belief on Krishna comes. That faith indirectly
called Bakthi which Sri Krishna said HE cant give and one has to try
by himself in Geetha.
B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------------------------c

This question is not relevant for participants off Geeta Talk. What is important for your son is to study Bhagwad-Geeta under the guidance of some knowledgeable person and then try to understand its utility in tranforming and divinising our dailly life.
Jayantilal Shah

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Ajo'pi sannavyayaatmaa bhootaanaamissvaro'pi san
prakrtim svaamadhisthaaya sambhavaamyaatmamaayayaa (Gita 4/6)

Though I am unborn, of imperishable nature, the Lord of all beings, yet, subordinating My nature (prakriti), I manifest Myself, through My Yogamaya. (divine potency)

Arvind Kaushik

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Sadhak Vyas NB wrote
Lord Krishna went back to His Abode ,
Question is : If Krishna is considered Paramaatmaa (Vasudev: Sarvam vide Gita 7 : 19), how can He go somewhere? This goes against the virtue of being Omnipresent. An explanation will be appreciated.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

--------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rshmi Ji,

I think your son's question is natural and it is only such enquiry one can understand better.
Please tell your son that in Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna and the Supreme (Parabrahman) are used
interchangebly. It becomes abundantly clear in many verses, for example Chapter 4 beginning verses:

4:1
I taught this eternal yoga to Vivasvat.
Vivasvat taught Manu and
Manu taught Ikshvaku.
Vivasvat is the sun; Manu and Ikshvaku are his descendents,
and patriarchs of the famous solar dynasty.

4:2
Thus handed down
in regular succession,
the rajarishis knew this.
(A rajarishi is one who is both a king and a sage).
But over the long course of time
the yoga seems to be lost in the world.
(Over time, the eternal yoga gets cluttered by tradition and
complicated by excessive scholarship; thus, it is practically lost).

Also it is Sri Bhagavaan uvaacha in Bhagavad-Gita; note it is not Krishna Bhagavaan uvaacha or
Bhagavaan Krishna uvaacha! Like when we say alcohol, it means ethanol which gets people high!
Theer are countless other alcohols like Methyl alcohol, iso-propyl alcohol, Retinol (Vitamin A)-
but when you say alcohol, it is ethanol. In this spirit, Bhagavad-Gita uses Bhagavan.
We also say, "Sri Krishna parabrahmane namah".

I am sure your son will also ask even the question which (unfortunately) Arjuna did not ask.
Namely, why was the yoga taught before was lost?
May be our notes in the parenthesis to above 2 shlokas will predict how it was lost.

Koti Sreekrishna

------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhak,

It is a very important question and should not be answered in a routine fashion
by making statements only out of belief. When we discuss about 'Godly persons'
it is not proper to use adjective like supreme or lord's of the lord as it implies
other are inferior or superior. Whereas GOD itself is enough without any adjectives.
It is easy to say supreme in whatever we believe in but this always eludes children
as we sought of indirectly tend to fall in competition between various representations/manifestations
of God.
First explain to him what we mean by God or when Krishna says who am I? ...that is the bigger
question to attend to. You can say we always address Krishna as person and Krishna as true soul
of God. No one can deny that Krishna was born and died as physical entity but survives as spirit
and soul touching like sky to all wisdom seekers. Now, those who represented that supreme entity
before and after were neither more or less compare to that supreme soul or those who represented
the supreme knowledge from time to time. Being born in India and in Hindu family we have advantage
of believing in Krishna with faith and unshaken belief that Krishna is a God. But at the same time we should not
fall into comparing business anymore on spiritual platform. Discuss about the supremacy of message and
contents and you will realize the greatness of message and who so ever represents that truth in/for you
is God ever living on this earth. I appreciate the zeal and truthfulness of innocence of question but we must
address the issue squarely without killing inquisitiveness in children.
In today's context it pains you when we market Gita in such a fashion that it becomes a political issue, this is the result of marketing done by some self styled masters of Gita, this becomes disservice to the great message. It is not truthful of us to believe that Gita will survive through our preaching or marketing, this message has and will
survive many centuries without our efforts.
In conclusion, all Godly figures are supreme and represent the only one universal truth.'SARV LOKE EK NATHAM'.
You can get best meaning of it in one of Vishnu stuti' SHANTA KARAM BHUJAGSHAYANAM MEGH VARNAM SHUBHAGAM...'
Get correct translation and meaning of these verses for your son.

Hari Om,

R.K.Raina

-------------------------------------------------

Namaste Rashmi,

In my previous mail i show the qualities of Krishna.Now please teach your son about the sceintific explanation of Gods in Sanathana Dharma.

Explanation for Mahavishnu: The blue colour of Vishnu denotes the colour of the sky and ocean which means the infinity/ limitless. The serpent on which Vishnu is lying denotes the coiled structure of a galaxy. The name of the serpent anantha means limitless (infinity) the ksheera saagaram ( ocean of milk) on which Vishnu is pictured shows milky way galaxy. Anantha sayana represent the silent universe/ galaxies. Symbolically Mahalakshmi ( meaning of this word is prosperity) has been attributed the position of the wife of Mahavishnu showing that any system can smoothly exist only with prosperity.

From Mahavishnu comes out through a Lotus (symbolically) the creator Lord Brahma. This symbolically presents a connection of Lord Brahma with the prapancha purhsa similar to the connection of the baby in the womb of the mother. The baby takes the energy and nutrition for growing/ cell production from the mother. Similarly Lord Brahma takes energy and material from for creation in the world. The four heads of Lord Brahma represent the four axes required for any creation: x, y, z and time axes. The Vedas (the word itself means knowledge) in the hands of Lord Brahma and the position of Saraswathy (deity of knowledge) as the wife of the creator symbolically present that for every creation knowledge/ vidya is required. The knowledge and creation (knowledge for creation) are inseparable components.

Lord Siva is the deity symbolically presents the controller of death/ destruction (the destruction is for further construction). Mahavishnu and Lord Siva are said to be connected through hearts ( which only means inseparable) Vishnoasya hrudayam siva: Sivosya hrudayam vishno â€" says Upanishads and Yajurveda. Symbolically Lord Siva has powerful fire in the third eye, powerful water and torrential air symbolically tied in the tuft and the snake around the neck ( symbol of international medical association) and thri sool in hand. All the five respectively present destruction through fire, water (flood , etc) air ( cyclone/ tempest, etc) diseases and using weapons. Parvathy (means energy/force/sakti) is symbolically presented as the wife of Lord Siva . Through this combination of Lord Siva and Parvathy, it is shown that the destruction for construction can take place with powerful application of any one or more of the above five. (powerful fire, air, water, diseases and weapon only have the destruction capacity). Thus they become inseparable hence the concept of Ardhanaareeswara comes up. In fact the Brahma Vishnu Maheswara sankalpa and the Lakshmi Parvathy Sarswathi sankalpa are the symbolic presentation of the life cycle spiritual- social and physical level when scientifically explained. Always the Hindus consider the knowledge, prosperity and sakthi/power in feminine gender. These explanations (of the gods) are the connecting layers of Vedic and puranic concepts of gods.

About other deities: In puranas one can read the stories of Vigneswara having the shape of the cross section of human brain, worshipped as the Lord who removes/ protects from the hurdles in the life. Hurdles can be as huge as elephants and it can come from anywhere just like a rat (mooshika vaahana) comes. Students who learn the six branches of Vedic subjects Siksha- nirukta- vyaakarana- chandassastra- kalpasaastra and Jyothisha, worship Subrahmanya/ Muruka, Subrahmanya is given the Lordship of six subjects. Hence six heads one for each subject. Incidentally, I feel it is worth explaining here that Ravana is said to have ten heads. It is because Ravana has the capacity of ten heads ( he has learned the four Vedas and six Vedangas and even he had tried to master the 11th subject , the Ayurveda too). Yamadharma raja or Kaala is the controller of death Yaama and Kaala (yaamasya apathyam pumaan yama: and kaalasya apathyam puman kaala) both means the controller of time. Hence the names clearly give the scientific truth that the death is connected with the time. Kaala is symbolically presented coming on a he buffalo ( he buffalo is said to be the most senseless animal, hence the time of death arrives to us senselessly â€" and takes our breath- without looking the age, religion, sex or any other parameters of the individualâ€" we say people die just like that)

Lord Krishna and Lord Rama and many heroes of the puranas and epics give us the message for elevating ouirselves from the ordinary human level to the level of incarnation/ avathara level. Their message enrich our life. They stand as role models in our life. Hence they are worshipped and celebrated as avatharas.

Shaiju

-------------------------------------------------

Just observe a picture of Viraat Swaroop and feel the greatness of Lord Krishna.U will observe all gods present there.
subhashtewari

--------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Yes ! Krishna is Supreme Lord ! The Lord is beyond birth and death. His manifestation in human body, is not like the birth of common men. In case of 'avtaars' , there are 'divya' (Divine) happenings . 'Janma Karma me divyam' ...BG 4:9 ! Krishna, for example, did not take birth under the compulsion of Nature as other humans do, but He manifested Himself of His own accord in order to stage the drama of human life, for the welfare of beings. When Lord Rama or Lord Krishna descended on the mortal world, mother Kaushalya or Devaki , did not give birth to Them. First, Paramatma revealed to them His four armed divine Form , with conch, disc, mace and lotus, and then staged the drama of a child, then the mother, requested Him to conceal that divine Form. The Form (body) of Lord Krishna or Lord Rama , unlike other human beings, was not made of flesh and blood. The Form of Lord ( Lord Ram or Lord Krishna) is eternal , healthy, spiritual, unchanging, divine and is revealed.

Lord Krishna went back to His Abode , in His Form (Shrimadbhagvata- 11/31/6) . Similarly, it is said in the Ramayana by Valmiki , that Lord Rama, having decided , entered the splendour of Lord Vishnu , with His three brothers. He thus, unlike common men, disappeared from this mortal world along with His body(Form), His body was not left on earth.

Therefore, merely because history has records of say Lord Krishna's dates of manifestation, Leela and disappearance, it can not be said that He was like other humans.

What people believe as miracles is in fact the pastime of Lord.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
--------------------------------------------
Namaste Rashmi,

Krishna is not a god but his godly behavior make him a great role model for the entire humanity.Some of the specialties of Krishna is as follows:-

Lord Krishna is a friend for those who consider him a friend with suhrut bhakti. He guides you through the correct pathway, just like a friend.
Lord Krishna is a god for those who consider him a god with Eeswara bhakti. He gives blessings and atmopadesa just like he has done to Uddhava and Arjuna.
Lord Krishna is a lover for those who approach him with great affection with prema bhakti,. He gives the love and affection to them and teaches others how to submit yourself to the devotees and friends .
Lord Krishna was like a son to Kunti and Gandhari . Even while advocating Arjuna for fighting the war, he kept that status of a son, with them. They always showed the vatsalya bhakti.
Lord Krishna is a psychologist, for those who are mentally/ psychologically disturbed due to tension and worries in their life. He advised them : ‘ Do not get depressed when you are facing the unhappy experience and do not get excited, when you are facing a joyous experiences. Keep a stabilized mind’.
Lord Krishna is a sociologist, who gave the warning that the society follows the foot steps of the great men. Great men should always be careful when they do/ tell/ comment about anything or about anybody.
Lord Krishna is a social reformer, who gave the status of Rajapatnee ( Just like Mao Tse Tung, in China gave national women status for the women prisoners when he released them from Chinese jail) for thousands (16000) of women prisoners who were in the jail of Narakasura.
Lord Krishna is a physicist who said that energy and matter can neither be created nor be destroyed, if one form of energy and matter changes, it will appear in another form
Lord Krishna is a philosopher who said that successes and failures are part of everyone’s life. One has to face them philosophically.
Lord Krishna was a king maker , but never became a king even in Dwaraka. That was obvious in his performance even after Kurukshetra war.
Lord Krishna consoled everyone using applied philosophy and by taking their pain and also by giving a rational explanation of cause and effect theory for the misery in their life.
Lord Krishna kept his words of impartiality, by giving his own soldiers (Yadava sena) to Kouravas and standing himself with the Pandavas in the Kurukshetra war.
Lord Krishna kept the universal truth that none is enemy or friend to a divine power/god . He proved that everyone is equal to the almighty (god) by not taking a weapon (by himself) against Kouravas. He never treated those who are standing with Kouravas were his enemies
Lord Krishna proved himself that even the Avataras -incarnation of gods- cannot keep themselves away from performing the dharma entrusted upon them. If they do not perform their dharma, the rule of the nature will collapse.
Lord Krishna showed the viswaroopa in Kurukshetra for informing Arujuna and others, that what has told as the message of Bhagavath Geetha is the rule of the nature bestowed upon each and every individual.
Lord Krishna showed the viswaroopa to Duryodhana to warn him that he (Krishna) is unconquerable by any force or power when adharma is performed.
Lord Krishna showed the viswa roopa to Bhishma on the banks of river Ganga to inform the world that he is approachable to anyone who wishes to reach him through devotion , Bhakti, for getting the blessings, wherever they are .
Lord Krishna showed that he can bow his head before anyone and can even go ‘down to earth’ and demonstrate the level of patience by listening to everyone and to any type of defaming words , even that of Sisupala .
Lord Krishna showed the world that , whoever is on the path of adharma, need not be tolerated. Hence Krishna even did not hesitate to kill his own uncle who was literally following adharma every minute of his life. Thus Krishna protected dharma.
Lord Krishna showed the world that if Adharmic forces are powerful in a war, use the adharmic force of the same coin , to annihilate adharma, because dharma has to survive for the welfare of the society .
Lord Krishna advised Arjuna, even though, Bhishma and Drona are the men with name and fame, who know all the principles of dharma and should be respected with all honor, they were in the side of adharma . Hence one need not pardon them nor respect them while fighting in the battle field. The battle field is the place where the test for the success of dharma and failure of adharma are aimed at.
Lord Krishna showed the far sightedness by putting the idol of Bhima to Drutharashtra, when the latter tried to embrace and insult the former .
Lord Krishna was a Dharmacharya, who advised Dharmaputra, that he will not incur any sin by killing Drona or Bhishma, or any of the relatives or gurus, because the war was for protecting the dharma and protecting the country is the duty of the Kashatriya.
Lord Krishna was a great mediator and advocate of peace to one and all, all over the Bharata varsha and world.
Lord Krishna was a great, colleague who could give the help and support at the time of crisis in life as seen in the life of Sudhama/ Kuchela.
Lord Krishna did not allow Balarama to stay where dharma based war was taking place, without participating in the side of dharma. He informed Balarama that every avatara has to protect the dharma, if not possible keep away from the place where the action for protecting the dharma is taking place. He said ‘Oh Balarama, you may better go to pilgrimage….if you cannot stand with dharma’
Lord Krishna did not prevent even the self annihilation of his own people ( Vrushni vamsa) as he knew that they are leading themselves the worst quality life. They can ruin the society with all negative qualities. Better themselves killed, than the society affected by their misbehaviors.. said Krishna
Lord Krishna took the hunter with him, who became the cause of Krishna’s death and he never cursed the hunter.
Lord Krishna is the protector of all. He never took the sins of others on his shoulders, but he corrected the people to become sinless and lead the dharma based life.
Lord Krishna did not die for sinners, but lived for making sinners non sinners and for guiding them to the sinless pathway.
Lord Krishna never cursed anyone in his life, but blessed everyone, including those who cursed him (Gandhari, Uttanga, and so on).
He never cried and begged to god to protect him, when the hunter sent the arrows, resulted in the dehatyaga of lord Krishna.
Lord Krishna was a leader of the soldiers of dharma and not a shepherd for innocent people . Wherever Krishna was present, he was the leader, protector, guide, friend and advisor. He always advised everyone to depend on their own courage and strength. The divine power is within and not in the sky….
Lord Krishna never ‘get himself in the trap of Satans’, or cried for the mercy of ‘gods in the sky’.
Lord Krishna never cursed anyone or anything even the so called enemies, or even those who defamed him in many occasions. He acted as a model for others even under very crucial situations.
Lord Krishna never said take my body or drink my blood for removing the sin of the devotees. The sin of the people is to be removed by those whocommitted the sin by dharmic actions. Gods or avataras cannot become the wholesale dealers of the sin of the sinners.
Lord Krishna could see the friends and foes within and outside and could do the needful, so that none could jump from one side to the other for money or power as it is told in the stories of other religion.
Lord Krishna was a great mediator for all issues in the society just like he was for Pandavas.
Lord Krishna’s Bhagavath Geetha is a subject of curriculum in hundreds of modern Universities world over, due exclusively to the merits of the messages, not because of the ‘fear of the god’.
It is said that in hundreds of schools in the developed countries Bhagavath Geeta is chanted with the morning prayers.
It is said that Pope has given an instruction that Christian priests also should learn Bhagavath Geeta.
Lord Krishna’s approach of management is the part of modern integrated management curriculum, which even the western, developed society has adopted as a part of their life style.

Shaiju

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Rashmi : Lord Krishna is an avatar in human form of Lord Maha Vishnu. Having been born in human form, He lived like a human but showing His Godliness at various times. Living for 125 yrs is considered as Poornayus ( complete life) which for a human can extend to 125 yrs but does not mean that all humans reach that age. Lord Rama, Vamana and Parasurama are other aspects of Lord Mahavishnu in human form. In the Gita Lord Krishna says that he will be born again and again as required to destroy evil and establish righteousness (Parithranaya Sadhunam ,Vinayashacha dushkritam ,Dharma samsthapanarthyam, Sambhavami Yuge yuge).

OM,

Venkat Hari

-------------------------------------------------
Is KrishNa Godhead?

To understand how KrishNa is THE SUPREME, you may want to listen to the ardent overtures from our humble Saadhaka ... Vaasudevah Sarvamiti!

It is not the form of existence that entirely represents the Godhead ... it is the stream (rather flood) of awareness that pours out from it that makes it radiant to be THAT! If you do not realize this even after studying the Bhagavadgita, I suggest, better get serious :).

As a matter of fact, can there be anything but that SUPREME. If you can't receive the Sura Gangaa of awareness within (from any thought, organ or a cell within) and around (from any action, object or a galaxy around) ... study NarayaNa Sookta ... study Purusha Sookta ... carefully ... at your subtlest care ever ...

Try to see The Vaasudeva in every nook and corner of His Vasu (HOME).

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

-------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rshmi Ji,

I think your son's question is natural and it is only such enquiry one can understand better.
Please tell your son that in Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna and the Supreme (Parabrahman) are used
interchangebly. It becomes abundantly clear in many verses, for example Chapter 4 beginning verses:

4:1
I taught this eternal yoga to Vivasvat.
Vivasvat taught Manu and
Manu taught Ikshvaku.
Vivasvat is the sun; Manu and Ikshvaku are his descendents,
and patriarchs of the famous solar dynasty.

4:2
Thus handed down
in regular succession,
the rajarishis knew this.
(A rajarishi is one who is both a king and a sage).
But over the long course of time
the yoga seems to be lost in the world.
(Over time, the eternal yoga gets cluttered by tradition and
complicated by excessive scholarship; thus, it is practically lost).

Also it is Sri Bhagavaan uvaacha in Bhagavad-Gita; note it is not Krishna Bhagavaan uvaacha or
Bhagavaan Krishna uvaacha! Like when we say alcohol, it means ethanol which gets people high!
Theer are countless other alcohols like Methyl alcohol, iso-propyl alcohol, Retinol (Vitamin A)-
but when you say alcohol, it is ethanol. In this spirit, Bhagavad-Gita uses Bhagavan.
We also say, "Sri Krishna parabrahmane namah".

I am sure your son will also ask even the question which (unfortunately) Arjuna did not ask.
Namely, why was the yoga taught before was lost?
May be our notes in the parenthesis to above 2 shlokas will predict how it was lost.

We recently translated Bhagavad-Gita, especially keeping EVERYBODY in mind.
I co-authored with my nephew who is 31 years younger to me!).
Encourage your son to read it for free on line.
You can read the book for free on our website: http://newbhagavadgita.in/2009/01/contents.html

Regards

KST
-----------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Sri Krishna took Arjuna in HIS divine chariot to Vaikunt to relieve dead children of a Bhramin. There Sri Vishnu sees Krishna and talks to him about the dead children. But Arjuna sees that Sri Vishnu and Sri Krishna appearance is similar. Ordinary man cannot travel to Vaikunt. Even travelling at light speed of 1,84,000 Km per second one may take months to reach there. Besides in Srimath Bagavath it clearly says that how a soul travels to Vaikunt and in each stage in space/worlds there are devathas handing over and other devathas taking over. Finally once reaching Vaikunt one has to take bath in Virja River and then the soul sets in eternal peace and happiness. If one wants to see how Vaikunt looks like can Visit Guruvayoou in India. So Sri Krishna going with Arjuna to Vaikunt just like that in NO time and it is is NOT possible unless Sri Krishna is embodiment of Sri Vishnu. Sri Krishna when hit by an arrow sent by Jara at last times, Sri Krishna vanished but not died like ordinary man. sri Krishna speaks to his parents Devaki and Vasudev on the day of Birth to carry HIM and leave HIM in Gokulam. HE was born with 4 arms and on request of Vasudev, the infant Sri Krishna makes his 2 arm disappear and remains with 2 arms. This is NOT possible by ordinary child. Besides Sri Visnu HIMSELF cannot come on this earth to kill demons and Kans (Devaki brother), so AMSAM came to this earth as Krishna. Christians pray Jesus. But Jesus often calls as, "Oh my father in heavens". Does it means Jesus is NOT God. HE is messenger of God or can be said embodiment of God. By praying Sri Krishna it goes only to Sri Visnu. There was cowherd who was keen on saying Mantra to see God. He repeatedly approached a saint who was doing Tapas. The saint in distress said a word which meant buffalo head. This man was earnestly was daily praying using that word. Sri Vishnu appeared and blessed him. The saint having come to know this, he felt ashamed of his act. So prayer having diverse knowledge lead to doubts and lastly no results. A fruit seller went to heaven by giving fruit to krishna in exchange of Moksha. A pot maker Dathibanda hid Krishna in a big pot as HE wanted to hide. After sometime when Krishna shouted from inside the pot, Dathibanda asked Krishna to him Moksha and only then he will release Sri Krishna. For the smallest brain of human, one needs to have faith than knowledge of interrogation. Sri Adi sankara in Vivekachudamani says, " studying sastras, arguing about God, doing prayer to different devathas, etc will lead to thousands of births rather than simple belief to believe God in a stone" Bagavan Shiva came to earth many time like man.
B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------------------

Dear Friend,
i am not any gurujan nor any saint so as per my knowledge i would like to clear
you that the 'Krishna' is not the lord. he is only symbol of every mankind who
is living. When he (Krishna)says that all the world is included him, he means
that all the world is in 'every mankind'. all the other things are same thing.

you need not to worry who is god because god is no where but everywhere. you
must understand that 'Bhavna' is supreme. As you think while you doing any work,
you get fruit. all the things (living / no-living ) are part of nature, they
never dies only the position is changes. As a water, sand, clay, fire and air
makes a brick, objects are made with nature. It may be god.

thanks....

i may further explain your querry if you want?

----Sunder Lal, Chandigarh

-------------------------------------------------------

Rashmi Patelji - Krishna was incarnation of lord Vishnu, he has taken birth as human being and the life cycle has to end to come to a original form.
Hope above clarifies.

Om Bhagvate Vasudevaya

BALAGURU RAMANAN

--------------------------------------------

the best way to teach your son is to take him to the nearest temple, often and on festivals, and share with him , all the daily puja rituals.Â

gita is not a book, it is a life style, by which only one can understand it.

jai shree krishna

Ashok Gupta

-----------------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram

While you receive responses, please take the time to read GITA MADHURYA with your son - http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/ebooks.html

You can also listen to the AUDIO version along with your son. It take two to three hours to complete and it will clarify many doubts.
GITA MADHURYA
http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net/audio.html

-------------------------------------------------

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