Tuesday, August 30, 2011

[gita-talk] Re: What Prayer to do to get family into the Spiritual Path and to avoid Anger?

 

Dear friends

advise wanted on what prayer to convince family on spiritual paths, as well as
keep myself from losing my temper.

Oppulence, liquour and kitty parties dictates life of my mother, brother, natal
relatives and marital family- except some older poorer relatives. Previous to
entering a spiritual life i was comfortable there- one and half years back

My husband (a Muslim) and child (at present says he believes in no religion) are
slowly beginning to understand that moderation, wisdom, justice are essential to
spirtuality. But other than my son they all aligned together, and called me
'mad' as I now travel by bus, learning inter faith music, and act as secretary
for oppressed groups. On my part I lost my temper, and told them that my family
consists of the entire earth, poor, and not them. This has hurt them a lot

Besides calling them, i meet my mother once a week. I cannot cope with lavish
upanyanams when caste is not by birth, but by quality. what is duty to one's
parents?

Ranjani (sufi spirited)

===================================================

do not convince family
continue to convince yourself
read good books
continue to prayer God as per your choice
God would take care

Badri Taneja
----------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhak RanjaniJi, Namaste!

Just be patient with all of them, no need to convince anyone of anything! You remain prayerful yourself!
Being Sufi in spirit, you should be able to see God everywhere your eyes fall.
As an individual you cannot change anyone except "youself". When you do that "Others" will have changed, for sure!
Make all of them a part of your family, why exclude them? This way you will communicate with
them and they will see you change, and they will also change!

You are already doing service to humanity, which makes one happy! Ask yourself why are you unhappy?

"Love them for what they are and not what they should be according to you!"

If you live from the above understanding, right action will emerge out of you towards them!

Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt
---------------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Dear Ranjani, I see you appended 'Sufi spirited', the great Sufi Saint
Radha Rohan Lal, was horrified at.. the suggestion that one should
change ones creed to follow his teachings, the purest thread I kow of is
the 'Golden Thread', that is at the heart of all religions.
I think there is a big difference in believing in no religion, because
one dose not believe in any Supreme/Divine, and some one like me, who
has great love for The Beloved, who finds the shackles of dogma painful
to wear.
Re '....and told them that my family consists of the entire earth, poor,
and not them.' That was Jesus' sentiment, but loosing your temper, not
good, and you see your natal relatives and marital family, are part of
the entire earth family, no distinction.
The prayer you see, is in your heart, to be your own prayer by example,
if you can cross the hurdle of not controlling your temper, then people
will slowly change around you.
So your prayer should be to The Beloved to help you to transcend your
emotional self.

Om ... Shant ...

Mike.
-------------------------------------------

Prayer to "convert" others … spiritual ethics …
The very notion of converting anyone into any particular thought process is anti-spiritual. Never dabble with the urge to convert others to think and live in your way as it inevitably creates confusion and chaos in others as well as yourself … Na buddhibhedam janayet. Anything that violates this dictat is spiritually unethical as it misleads oneself as well as others.
Any insistant association even in the name of spiritualism - be it Brahminism or Shaivism or VaishNavism or Sufism - can only turn into fanatism wherein one imposes one's beliefs on others either by intellect or by by force or by both. Fanatism backed up with intense expectation on the results from the target is always bound to generate stress within. The stress brewed within explodes in anger and madness. Dhyaayato vishayaan pumsah ... kaamat krodho'bhijaayate ... buddhinaashaatpraNashyati.
Freedom to think and act is true spirituality. Freedom to think empowers one to correct oneself without any prejudices refining one's knowledge into wisdom that eventually merges into pure awareness. Freedom to act enables one to upgrade one's actions without any hesitance enhancing one's appreciation of life around and within with better clarity and conviction. Any attempt to modify one's thoughts and/or actions due to insistence from within and/or any compulsion from around can only lead to "Buddhibheda" (confusion) bound within the cage of very insistence one exerts out and compulsion one submits into.
What is wrong if a son or a husband or any others have a difference of opinion?! In fact, purging any such independent thoughts and actions is equivalent to killing their original personality. If you insist to impose the ideas on others, only three things can happen:
1. The fellow succumbs due to inherent weakness and borrows the beliefs ignorantly;
2. The fellow pretends to accept to avoid unnecessary conflicts out of sheer survival instincts; or
3. The fellow rebells hurting the imposter back.
In either case, nobody is benefitted. Rather, all parties are hurt directly or indirectly.
On the other hand, if a person negates your opinion, you have everything to gain by investigating the reasons. In this case, if your son does not believe in "god", it means that the notion has generated conflicts in him. It could be either due to wrong preaching from your end or wrong appreciation from his end. The only way to resolve this is through an open-heart discussion where-in you let go of your presumptions to help him let go of his as well. When two open minds interact, wisdom is the ONLY CHOICE in the outcome. Maybe you will learn of your misnomers and correct yourself ... maybe he will ... mostly both will. Difference of opinion is a great opportunity to improve oneself!
One-sided or lopsided conversion always leads into conflicts. Mutual appreciation can never fail but to raise into wiser planes of relationship. Again, na buddhibhedam janayet … pause if the dialogue is not turning into wiser planes - wisdom ought to be pumped into the relation from either end. If incapable, one ought to depend on an external agency such as a teacher or a counselor.
Respects.
Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------------

Ask Krishna for Help..... O Krsna! What should I do?" You can also remember Caitanya Mahaprabhu: "O Caitanya Mahaprabhu, You are causelessly merciful. Please bestow Your mercy upon me. In this kali-yuga life is very, very short, there are many problems, and the mind is always upset. What should I do? I am always covered with so many obstacles in my attempt to execute bhakti. I have no association, I am very weak, and I have not obtained the mercy of Krsna. What should I do? O Caitanya Mahaprabhu, I know only You. You are causelessly merciful. Please sprinkle Your mercy upon me. You have sprinkled your mercy even to Jagai and Madhai. Why not to me? I think I am more wretched than them, and therefore I am qualified to receive Your mercy."

If you weep in this way, then Krsna will give His mercy. By chanting, your heart will be melted and tears will come. If tears do not come you should think, "I have committed so many offenses. That is why tears are not coming." Always repent like this and chant, "Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.

Excerpts from a lecture by TRIDANDI SVAMI BHAKTIVEDANTA NARAYANA MAHARAJA
Posted by
Vasanti Dasi

-------------------------------------------------

Dear Gita-Talk member,

The best prayer will be "throw your (all) thoughts away and then
pray in your thinking". This level of prayers will help you.

Good Luck! Bye!
Notesh Otes

---------------------------------------------------

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[gita-talk] Re: Confusion about Doer / Non-doership of Atma and Paramatma and Creation

 

Hari Om,

I have a great confusion about the doer/non-doership of Atma and Parmatma, which is disturbing my mind constantly. I seek your help on the question that it is said by the scriptures that there is no action or Kriya in Atma or Brahm. Brahm is limitless, ephmeral, everblissful etc., etc, and it does nothing. There is no movement in it also. If Brahm or Atma is actionless then WHO HAS CREATED THIS WORLD ? If God/ Brahm has created it through His Maya even then it cannot be
said that He is actionless. And if he is absolutely actionless then from where this World has emerged out? Great Confusion!!.

Ram Ram

Raj Kumar.

-----------------------------------

Atman or Brahm is that state of knowledge where the existence of any thing or every thing including the entire Creation arises out of no action of choice of free will. All these and the actions and reactions are just a single, indivisible, limitless, ceaseless existence without any cause or source of impulse. It is simply self-contained system in perpetuity. The absence of this state of knowledge is Maya or illusion Given tha Atman or Pramatma or Brahma being the State of this knowledge, be definition, Atman or Brahm is bereft of any action. Perception of action by choice and free will is Maya.
Basudeb Sen

---------------------------------------

Just as Sun gives only light and energy,but in its presence or just little before Sun-shine, hens start singing, birds start flying, and trees start producing oxygen. Atma is like a Torch-Light which shows the way in darkness and thereby facilitates movement, so is the soul. If the light is not there, one may fall down in ditch or miss the way. However actual motion takes place in Prakriti and when Atma is awakened, it moves in a direction of increasing peace aand purity, but if Atma is sleeping, it creates disturbance and turmoil.
What all scriptures do is to give directions about awakening; in this state Prakriti will take direction and action towards increasing peace and happiness.
This idea is explained at three places in three different verses in BG as under.
Prakrutehe Kriyamanani, Gunaihi Karmani Sarvasaha,
Ahamkara Vimudhatma, Kartaham iti manyate. 27/3
Prakrutyaiva cha karmani, Kriyamanani Sarvashah,
Yaha Pashyati Thatmanam,Akartaram Saha Pashyati 30/13

Tatraiva Sati Kartaram, Atmanam Kevalam to Yaha,
Pashyati Akruta Budhhitwat, Na Saha Pashyati Durmatihi 16/18

Due to the effect of Maya, Drashta and Drashya have been mixed up and thereby false Ego takes up the work of Doership, it creates stress, hypertension, worry etc. To destroy this false Ego and experience the light of the soul, requires enormous effort spread over several life-times. Once we come into our Swabhava of being Light to ourselves, everything starts getting re-arranged in correct way. Anugraha of Sadguru is needed.

Jayantilal Shah
-------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!

Raj KumarJi's question is natural in earlier phase of sadhana on the path of Self Realization.
I would like to point out two most important aspects as I see it.
1) Atma(n), Paramatma, Brahman, God, Self, they all point to Essentially One and the same experience! Atma, Self are used when we talk about individual body-mind, and Paramatma or Brahman is used when we talk of Vishwa or Brahmand or Universe!

2) All of above words point to Experience, not to "something" that we know by senses and mind. What we know with mind is an object of perception which we name with the help of memory/mind. Thus, anything with the mind is limited knowledge and cannot be Atman or God. However, most certain Experience in us is that of being conscious(sat-chit), regardless of whatever object we are conscious of. This experience is called Atman, a word pointing to such experience. Even Atman, Brahman, God, Self are words only when spoken, not experience.

Then, Atman or Brahman is pure Existence common to all objects and things of this world including our individual bodies. Thus Atman equal to Brahman is Reality of the world as pure Existence on which we superimpose forms and names, such as mountains, rivers, animals, man, trees, etc etc.

Now why there is no doership in Atman/Brahman?

Just as Sun light/heat sustains the life and its movements/changes etc on the planet earth, doing really nothing, remaining in its natural state of shining, same way, Atma is such shining Presence of Existence, Invisible but experiential, which brings body-mind into action as is natural, being a part of prakriti. This is also called in Gita actionless action, non-doership arising from the body-mind. Please not carefully, so-called doer is only an after-thought "I did it", known as ego!

Who created this world?

This world is not created by God, rather, God is this manifest world, and beyond. If we consider God as separate being who created this world, then, it has to be assumed that at a point in time there was absolutely "nothing existed" except of course God, who created this world. Then, God as Existence was there already, so "nothing existed" cannot be true at any time till infinite regression!!! Thus one reaches the conclusion as did great Rishis of upanishadas, that this world, which is manifest God, has to be beginning-less and endless even in its physical aspect!
Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Because we are dealing with mind/intellect, this question is tricky to answer, in the same way that a scientist who is trying to observe 'dark matter' (which is 5/6 of the cosmic material), the commentator observed that the scientist has a problem, being his equipment is not dark matter.
Nevertheless I will attempt to build an hypothesis:

Ex Wikipedia.
Philosophical schools such as Advaita (non-dualism) see the "spirit" within each living entity as being fully identical with Brahman – the Principle, whereas other schools such as Dvaita (dualism) differentiate between the individual atma in living beings, and the Supreme atma (Paramatma) as being at least partially separate beings.[3] Thus atman refers to the individual spirit or the *****observer being***.[4]
Note *****observer being***

Vaasishtha:
1803, 1804. If there is development to a high degree in

understanding the complete absence of this delusion of the

world born like the colour of the sky, then, the nature of

Brahman (or the Absolute Reality) can be known; but not

through other action. There is no other auspicious means

except (the knowledge of) the complete absence of the

visible world (for the realisation of the Absolute).

1805 The highest (or Absolute) Reality is not known at any
time by anybody without (realising) the impossibility of the

natural existence of this visible object, called the world.

Imagine you are watching a movie , you observe it and follow the story, but you are not part of it, merely the observer, now some people can become obsessed, and fail to be grounded, they start to identify with the movie, think of those 'Star Trek' obsessives 'Trekies'.
If the Self gets to identify with the Divine Play, and considers it to be real, he thinks he is the dooer, not the observer.
Just a few thoughts.
Om ... Shanti ...
Mike.
-------------------------------------------------

Doership … doing … action …
Action and inaction are two notions devised by the living beings to enable themselves to participate in the "actions" of their "choice". Again "choice" as well as "actions" remain mere notions within the individual who percieve the same.
The Action IS eternal and real being synanymous with The Universal Unity (Brahman) - IT eternally remains integral with The Eternity as such. In other words, The Action is inseparable from The All-Pervasive Absolute and hence remains all-pervasive as ever. The Absolute pervades everything as The Action to maintain the integrity amongst all through the perpetual change they are subjected into.
Karma brahmodbhavam viddhi brahmaakshara samudbhavam |
Tasmaat sarvagatam brahma nityam yagnye pratishThitam ||
Therefore any claims that "Brahman/Aatman is inactive" is utterly meaningless. The Action (Karma-Yagnya cluster) alone is THE TRUTH.
On the other hand, the "actions" (pl note the plurality) are momentary and illusive. An action (action with particular percieved context) is notionally percieved by imposing illusive dimensions and boundaries by one's cognitive mechanism to facilitate the individual to understand one's loci in the all-pervasive action network from an individual perspective. That is the mechanism provided to enable interaction (Yagnya) between mutually percieved objects (Prajaah). Specificity amongst the matter (objects), energy (actions) and interaction (changes) - Prajaa, Karma and Yagnya - ought to be momentary. Yet THE CLUSTER remains eternally the same - matter is conserved, energy is concerved and hence the collective change amongst them is also conserved!
Now comes the most important irany in our understanding - doership (ownership on action)! Any claim or ownership on The Action ought to be false and wrong. There cannot be any owner as UNITY reigns. There ought to be a second to own! Even in the specificity, no one can ever own any action. Any perceieved action within its dominion remains a collective activity disbursed amongst infinitude of entities. Who can own an action except The Action itself. Therefore, the scriptures make an astute observation that there is no doership. Please do not get misinterpret "no doership" to "no doing". Also, do not mislead yourself to understand "no doing" as "no action" either.
Monolithic Action is The Universal Existence and hence is THE ONLY REALITY ever.
Doing (specific action) exists from individual perspective, but not in universal sense.
Doership is an utter myth - from individual perspective as well as universal sense.
Respects.
Naga Narayana.

---------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,
Bhramam has creation is called Samasti Sristi- After that Bhramaji continued called Vesti-Sriti.Actions refereed is Karma- Karma done only by having a body. Whereas Sri Vishnu is called - Aakarmanaya, Sarvakarmaya, Nishkarmaya. This relates to different types of actions by Bhramam.
Say man invented computer- software up in- it works. But the inventor does not work with computer. After invention it works by itself. So also human body. Like computer problems- so is human health problems. So humans should understand that everything is set in and he works as per Karma. So he is not the doer. But when he works against settings (Dharmas) he becomes the doer.
B.Sathyanarayan

------------------------------------------

Let us imagine a total emptiness, no universe - nothing. At that moment (or time but let us remember the dimension of time also was non existent but for sake of understanding we need to take some analogy) only Parabrahman existed WHO was characterless, formless. No movement and totally still as you described. At some moment, a flutter occurred in HIM and HE perceived I AM BRAHMAN. The moment this flutter occurred of HIS being Brahman, HE though remained formless, assumed an attribute or virtue of compassion. Brahman in this form was once again still but a flutter occurred again - I AM ALONE, I WANT TO MANIFEST. With this resolve, HE created Maya. Let us understand, for omnipotent Brahman, for any act HE needs to have a resolve only - doesn't have to do any kriya. Gita-7.14
{Verily, this divine illusion of Mine, made up of the (three) qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in Me alone, cross over this illusion.}
Brahman then manifested in every being as HIS own reflection.

{only one soul manifests in every being, the way many reflections of (a) moon are visible in water.}
This is also described in Bhagwad Gita Purushottam Yoga
(Gita 15-1) {the indestructible peepul tree having its root above and branches below}

In the above picture you can see the reflection of tree in water appearing in inverted form (roots above). upright tree is Brahman, water is maya and reflection is the universe.
For governance of this universe, HE created the rule book of Karma which is flawless without any exception.
Hope this may throw some light on the query; bearing in mind that for describing Parabrahman or Brahman no analogy is perfect, they only aid us to clear our vision.

koham

-----------------------------------------------

i am sure you have read sri gita jee , by self or by the help of some body who knows sree gita jee, Â if gita can not answer these basic small questions, who else can.Â
this is my personal view.
ashok gupta
delhi
---------------------------------------------------------

the brahman is in us and we are in the world. When i do yoga in the morning on the barsati (terrace) and qi gong (budhist way of harnessing life forces) in the evening one feels the oneness with the cosms, try and breath it every minute the rest of the day (not always successful). The sun rises every morning in east and sets in west- in this cosmic splendour i feel the brahman. It has brought me immense peace.

Ranjani
------------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Please read postings by Swamiji on this topic

The Self is Not the Doer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2565

There is No Doer or Enjoyer; It is Merely Assumed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2382

Doership and Enjoyership are in Nature Only, Not in Self
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2340

The Self is Neither a Doer, Nor an Experiencer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2327

There is No Sense of Doership in the Self
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1976

There is No Doership, Nor Enjoyership in the Self
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1895

Neither God is the Doer, Nor Self (Jeev) is the Doer.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1582

The Self is a Non-Doer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1362

The Self - Neither a Doer nor an Enjoyer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/688

PLEASE ALSO READ PREVIOUS GITA TALK DISCUSSIONS ON THIS TOPIC

How to perform actions without sense of doership?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4008

Then who is the doer? Please help clarify -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3398

Is God a doer or a facilitator?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1057

QS: Gita 13:31 Self (Atma) is neither doer, nor experiencer

AND MANY MORE......

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================

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Monday, August 29, 2011

[gita-talk] Reflections on NIJ NIJ KARAM NIRAT SHRUTI REETI - from Ramcharitmanas

 

Respected Sir

The response - to my Q - from the divine sadhaks is very important to me since this will give directions to me as to what should i do/think to/and progress in my endeavor
towards my ultimate goal.

RAM RAM JI

man mohan batra

Respected Sir

Lord Shri Ram, on a query from Shri Lakshman Ji, tells an easy path of devotion

"Bhakti ka sadhan kahaun bakhani, Sugam panth mohe pavahin prani"

and says 'NIJ NIJ KARAM NIRAT SHRUTI REETI"

I now request the divine sadhaks to kindly reflect on NIJ NIJ KARM and
SHRUTI REETI"

I wish to follow the directions,guidance and advise that Lord Shri Ram Ji
is referring to.

Ram Ram Ji

man mohan batra

----------------------------------------------

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[gita-talk] What Prayer to do to get family into the Spiritual Path and to avoid Anger?

 

Dear friends

advise wanted on what prayer to convince family on spiritual paths, as well as keep myself from losing my temper.

Oppulence, liquour and kitty parties dictates life of my mother, brother, natal relatives and marital family- except some older poorer relatives. Previous to entering a spiritual life i was comfortable there- one and half years back

My husband (a Muslim) and child (at present says he believes in no religion) are slowly beginning to understand that moderation, wisdom, justice are essential to spirtuality. But other than my son they all aligned together, and called me 'mad' as I now travel by bus, learning inter faith music, and act as secretary for oppressed groups. On my part I lost my temper, and told them that my family consists of the entire earth, poor, and not them. This has hurt them a lot

Besides calling them, i meet my mother once a week. I cannot cope with lavish upanyanams when caste is not by birth, but by quality. what is duty to one's parents?

Ranjani (sufi spirited)

===================================================

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[gita-talk] Confusion about Doer / Non-doership of Atma and Paramatma and Creation

 


Hari Om,

I have a great confusion about the doer/non-doership of Atma and Parmatma, which is disturbing my mind constantly. I seek your help on the question that it is said by the scriptures that there is no action or Kriya in Atma or Brahm. Brahm is limitless, ephmeral, everblissful etc., etc, and it does nothing. There is no movement in it also. If Brahm or Atma is actionless then WHO HAS CREATED THIS WORLD ? If God/ Brahm has created it through His Maya even then it cannot be said that He is actionless. And if he is absolutely actionless then from where this World has emerged out? Great Confusion!!.

Ram Ram

Raj Kumar.

-----------------------------------

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Please read postings by Swamiji on this topic

The Self is Not the Doer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2565

There is No Doer or Enjoyer; It is Merely Assumed
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2382

Doership and Enjoyership are in Nature Only, Not in Self
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2340

The Self is Neither a Doer, Nor an Experiencer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/2327

There is No Sense of Doership in the Self
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1976

There is No Doership, Nor Enjoyership in the Self
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1895

Neither God is the Doer, Nor Self (Jeev) is the Doer.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1582

The Self is a Non-Doer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/1362

The Self - Neither a Doer nor an Enjoyer
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sadhaka/message/688

PLEASE ALSO READ PREVIOUS GITA TALK DISCUSSIONS ON THIS TOPIC

How to perform actions without sense of doership?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/4008

Then who is the doer? Please help clarify -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3398

Is God a doer or a facilitator?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/1057

QS: Gita 13:31 Self (Atma) is neither doer, nor experiencer

AND MANY MORE......

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

===================================================

Related Link: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net (english)
Related Link: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org (Hindi)
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Sunday, August 28, 2011

[gita-talk] Re: Thoughts on the importance of the repeated lines of Bhagavad Gita

 

Hari SharaNam,
May I request you to express your thoughts on the following lines which are repeated by Lord KrishNa in Bhagavad Gita.

1) O Arjun, People follow my path in every way. (MAM VARTAMAANUVARTANTE MANUSHYAA: PAARTH SARVASHA: -3/23; 4/11)

2) Better is one's own duty, though devoid of merit, than the duty of another well adopted/performed. (SHREYAAN SWADHARMO VIGUNA: PARADHARMAATSVANUSHTHITAAT - 3/35, 18/47).

3) Fix your mind on Me, be devoted to Me, sacrifice to /adore/worship Me, bow down to Me. (MANMANAABHAVA MADBHAKTO MADYAAJI MAAM NAMASKURU - 9/34,18/65).

Thanks to all!
Niteesh Dubey

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Hari Om

A Divine topic, indeed. While Dubeyji has quoted here 3 examples of 'same words' used in Gita at different places, but in Gita there are a total 45 instances where same words have been used at different places. ( Refer Gita Darpan by Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj) !

In BG 3:23 Lord talked about Karma Yoga. In BG 4:11 Lord talked about Bhakti Yoga. Meaning thereby that Paramatma is ideal for a sadhak both in Bhakti Yoga and Karma Yoga.

Arjuna considered taking alms ( pardharma) better than indulging in war. Therefore, Lord, by BG 3:35 , advised Arjuna that war (sva-dharma) is better than taking alms (bhiksha) . Lord thus insisted that own prescribed duties (svadharma) is always better than duties of others (bhiksha) ! Second time, vide 18:47, Lord insisted using same words, that even if your own dharma appears faulty or deficient (as compared with pardharma- dharma of others), still one must follow sva-dharma only. Conclusion: Neither you should get disinterested in your own duties by thinking them to be inferior nor your eye should shift from your own dharma to other's dharma by thinking that other's dharma is superior to yours. On the contrary, based on the circumstances present before you, you should do your karma ( duty) diligently and enthusiastically.

In 9th chapter, Lord directed Arjuna suo motto...the nectar of His Kripaa flows here from Lord's side, but here there was a subtle pride in Arjuna of his striving and Purushartha. Therefore Lord said 9:34. Here your benediction (kalyaan) / God Realisation is stated to be through 'Bhagwatparaayanata' ..taking shelter of Paramatma. So till there is 'aham' , let there be 'Bhagwatparayanata' ( shelter of God).

But in 18:65 ..in God Realisation 'Bhagwatkripaa' ( Grace/Benevolence of God) is medium. In 18:65, Lord spoke same words after ruthlessly breaking the pride of Arjuna and threatening him with 18:58. Arjuna's pride took a hit when Lord said in 18:63...Do as you wish. That crushed the pride of Arjuna. Thereupon the Param Kripalu Paramatma said...Manmana Bhav...!! So after 'aham' is broken...it is only Grace of God. (Bhagwatkripa).

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------

Excellent observations indeed.

Mama vartma anuvartante … all ought to follow ME

Yadi hyaham na varteyam jaatu karmaNyatandritah |
Mama vartamaanuvartante Manushyaah partha sarvashah || 3-23||

The whole creation is structured in such a way that everything follows an ideal of its own imbibing the behavioral patterns of their idols trying to emulate the fruits that their idols seem to enjoy – Yadyadaacharati shreshThah tattadevetaro tathaa …

There is no need for the idols to do anything to appease the followers. Yet they are responsible for what has been followed. Lord KrishNa, THE IDOL of all that is ever created or evolved or mutated are enabled to be transcendentally existent only due to HIS perpetual engagement in the very life in its microscopic presence encompassing its macroscopic existence. Therefore, the very genetic tendencies that drive the beings to be whatever they are is THAT as well as the very world that dictates the beings' loci operatus in itself is also verily THAT. Therefore, KrishNa reveals the fact that all actions are verily in accordance with HIS way being verily directed by HIM as well directed towards HIM.

Ye tathaa maam prapadyante taanstathaiva bhajaamyaham |
Mama vartamaanuvartante Manushyaah partha sarvashah || 4-11||

At the same time KrishNa being THE ABSOLUTE FREEDOM everything that is enabled by HIS grace should also be engraved with the very freedom from all perspectives. For the same reason, HE is whatever one perceives HIM as. He can grow into anything one could ever perceive. He was nobody to Arjuna to start with. He was heard of as a distant cousin later. The stranger becomes a friend as Arjuna grows. HE becomes the guide as the later seeks His wisdom. HE becomes the caretaker when the fellow vests all his interests in his hands. HE becomes THE GURU when the fellow prostrates begging for knowledge. HE becomes THE BHAGAVAAN when the fellow surrenders to HIM seeking wisdom of existence. HE becomes the very fellow when the fellow seeks the wisdom his very presence. The fellow becomes THAT when one attains HIM …

Yet … all the perceptions … stranger, friend and foe, teacher and disciple, mother and baby, Bhagavaan and Bhakta … EVERYTHING … remain THAT alone … verily to be whatever they are and whatever they ought to be …

Respects.
Naga Narayana.

-------------------------------------------------------

Shreyaan swadharmo viguNah …

Shreyaan swadharmo viguNah paradharmaat svanushThitaat |

Swadharme nidhanam shreyah paradharmo bhayaavahah ||3-35||

Having said that every being is bound to follow something or the other as an idol and yet preserves its freedom to choose to perceive everything in its own way, one ought to strike a balance in what one ought to understand and appreciate from one's life – oneself as well as one's environment. Accordingly, THREE-FOLD obligations arise to every individual who lives in a society as a natural element amongst many other natural elements around – Jaata Dharma (personal traits), Samaaja Dharma (environmental dictates) and Sanaatana Dharma (eternal reality). But, one is bound to be mislead whenever one imbibes an alien nature without any appreciation. Only with a close appreciation from within one can ever naturalize whatever learnt to be one's very nature. One's core nature is obviously the greatest state of all for anyone since one is naturally at peace and joy at one's very self presence.

One is and outght to be perturbed when an alien notion displaces one's presence from within. Therefore, the suggestion is that one ought to preserve oneself in-spite of the inevitable and unavoidable observations on, interactions with, and receive synergy the world around to be whatever one is. In fact all efforts to understand the world around arises from only one desire - to experience oneself! One who looses the self-experience in all the activities is bound to be drowned in the fear of uncertainties and unknowns smothering the fellow all around.

Shreyaan swadharmo viguNah paradharmaat svanushThitaat |

Svabhaavaniyatam karma kurvannaapnoti kilbisham ||18-47||

Lord KrishNa is closing the earlier observations on one's nature, attitude and behavior in one's sub-conscious, thoughts and actions respectively here. One ought to act only being triggered by one's very core nature in all respects. One ignorantly corrupts this pure initiative by harboring misnomers on the world in one's interactions with the same. As a result, one looses focus in one's presence as well as locus in one's existence. Therefore, it is of no use - rather harmful - even if one is capable of executing duties of an alien nature well as that can never settle the individual to be what one really is! Therefore, it is in one's own benefit that one ought to appreciate one's very nature and the needs to cater to the same in one's actions, thoughts as well as desires to be whatever one is … even if one is not adept in executing such tasks …

Respects.
Naga Narayana.
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Repetition of such lines s a proof that Lord Krishna spoke as the lines were applicable to the context and that Gita is not some academic exercise written by Ved Vyas. People who believe in the historicity of Mahabhart don't have a problem with what actually occurred over 4000 years ago.
Abdul Kalam Ji suggested in an email circulated on the net that we need to initiate at least 100 PhD's in researching the ancient India's history and I hope some academic universities in India will take that up.
I for one will be willing to fund one such PhD out of a 100 and I am sure many NRI's will join me if such a programme can be started. Of course we should not rely on the mostly THUG government of India for such noble endeavours.
Anil Bhanot

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And
the various names of lord sri krishna
HariBol
Badri Taneja

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Saturday, August 27, 2011

[gita-talk] Anti-Corruption Awareness

 

The backwardness (joblessness, poverty) in our country is not due to over population, rather it is due to increase in negligence in duty, bad conduct, laziness, disregard, corruption etc. But instead of looking towards diligence in duty, good conduct, self-control, sacrifice etc, the attention is going towards finding solutions to decrease population, which will increase these evil tendencies.

- Swami Ramsukhdasji

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RESOURCES

indiaagainstcorruption.org
indiaagainstcorruption.2010@gmail.com
facebook.com/indiacor

--------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Swamiji is correct that why poverty exists in such a huge amount, not
only in India, but world-wide is greed and self interest. If any
government wants to turn its attention to the long suffering populous,
and target fairly its resources with equanimity, it will be brought
down, external or internally. On average world-wide 10% of the
population owns 90% of the wealth, not much left for the rest of us.

The ability of a nation to support itself depends on many complex
issues, the maximum population that Australia can support according to
the experts is aprox. 50 million. Much of the irrigated areas slowly
turn to salt, there is a great shortage of water, thus the deserts
remain deserts/semi deserts. Of course food can be purchased if the
nation has wealth, but other nations poor may go begging.

So getting black money/hidden wealth into the nations coffers, will be
resisted at all costs, what is so very important is to utilize, the
nations resources for the good of all.

I remember reading a comment by Swamiji that wars will be fought over
water, I consider he was spot on, not sure how well water is managed in
India, but it is a very precious commodity!

Om.... Shanti...

Mike.

---------------------------------------------

In total agreement mother(auorbindo) is a combination of wisdom, justice, meticulousness and splendour. Where is justice, when one person can keep on accumulation and the pathways to accumulation makes another poorer or a poor person cannot build a house with real estates having gone up. Are we leaving anything of mother earth for the next generation by this greed. It is not just government that is corrupt, majority of the wealthy, MNCs and corporates are corrupt. So are religious institutions which take money from such wealthy people. in the eyes of god/goddess when all are equal why should there be a separate queue for those who can pay

Ranjani- believer in justice and inter faith spirituality

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The preamble to Constitution of India begins with "We the people of India give to ourselves....". Now "We the people of India congratulate ourselves on the historic milestone in the fight against corruption".

Atul Save

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Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar,

Political environment has a deep impact on the minds of people. Politicians are moving in a breakless vehicle making the lives of common men miserable.

The election laws are to be drastically changed. If a person is a sitting grampanch, corporator, MLA or MP..no other person from his family should be allowed to contest any election. Any person should not hold an elected post for more than two terms..after which he should be permanently barred from contesting and election. At the age of 65 years,the politician should retire from active politics. If a politician is found involved in any unlawful activity, he should be forced to resign the post and he should be tried in court of law like a common man....and so on ...

Gee Waman
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:Shree Hari:

21st June, 2008, Saturday
Aashaad Krishna Tritiya, Vikram Samvat 2065, Shanivar

Whatsoever an eminent person does, he is followed by others as
well. Whatever standard he sets, the world follows the same. Gita
3:21)

"Yadadaacarati srethastattadevetaro janah
Sa yatpramaanam kurute lokastadanuvartate." (Gita 3:21)

Comments: It is generally observed that in society, in a community,
in an organization, in a particular race, in a nationality, in a
stage in life, those men that are considered most excellent and
eminent, then other men believing their eminence, see them with
respect, and as they behave, people in their organization, groups
etc. follow suit and behave in the same manner over time.

Due to the importance of wealth and status within one's self, and
due to greed, people regard millionaires, and individuals in high
positions (e.g. leaders) as great men and they view them with
reverence and respect. Those that have given importance to these
inert things within themselves, such as wealth and position etc., in
actuality, they are neither eminent, nor honorable themselves, nor
are they able to understand honorable and eminent people, at all.
Also those that are considered ideal and excellent by such
individuals are also not in reality, excellent and honorable
people. If they have given importance to wealth internally, then,
they will be more influenced by wealthy people. Just like thieves
are influenced by the leader of the thieves. The truth is that
inspite of not being eminent and honorable, but being believed as
excellent, through other people, the behavior of these rich people
in high positions, is automatically and effortlessly propagated in
society. Just like the rich people, that are considered eminent due
to their wealth, whatever methods they resort to for earning and
accumulating wealth, those same practices automatically spread
among the others, even if these practices are kept in great
secrecy ! This is the main reason why at present times falsehood,
forgery, dishonesty, theft and corruption and other evil tendencies
are naturally spreading rampantly on their own in society, without
any schooling or teaching.

It is painful and surprising that at present people regard a
millionaire as great and honorable, but a devotee who is deeply
immersed in chanting the name of God, is not considered honorable.
People do not have the foresight that when a millionaire dies, he
will not take a single penny with him, while the wealth (Lord's name
recitation) of the devotee will entirely go with the devotee !

Those men that are considered the main heads (leaders) in their
field or place, those teachers, preachers, educators, gurus,
priests, national leaders, and rulers etc., who hold positions of
honor in society, for them it is extremely essential that there is
utmost alertness and caution in behavior and conduct, where by they
have a good influence on other people. This is because everyone has
their eye on the main leader. Just like the driver of a passenger
train has immense responsibility for the travellers. The travellers
may be fast as sleep, yet the driver must remain awake and alert at
all times. Even by the slightest carelessness, there is a
possibility of a disaster. Therefore in this world, for all those
that are considered eminent in their fields, it is extremely
essential that they apply utmost care, caution, and alertness in all
their actions and behavior. (to be continued)

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" Gita 3:21 in English
page 332 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

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MONEY - CORRUPTION OF WISDOM -

Money is not as important as a man makes it to be. Money and
its' accumulation and hoarding leads to polluted intellect, slavery, wanting, begging, unrighteousness, corruption of wisdom, ruining of nature, loss of divinity and finally a fall. Dishonestly acquired money will definitely invite fruit of future punishments. Money is not as important as the appropriate use of it. Appropriate use of money is when it is used to remove the miseries of others.
The wealthiest one, the Master of all, is one who wants nothing.
- Swami Ramsukhdasji

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CORRUPTION OF INTELLECT

Protecting the cow, can along with material development, achieve economic, ethical, social, moral and cultural development. Whereas, by the slaughter of cows, except disaster, nothing else can be achieved. Money earned by the slaughter of cows and export of beef leads to the corruption of the intellect.
We call upon all our members to do whatever they can to create an awareness among the public at large about the importance of the cow and to create a favorable public opinion against cow slaughter. No step will be small.

- Swami Ramsukhdasji
----------------------------------------------------------

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