Tuesday, February 15, 2011

[gita-talk] Re: How to overcome the sexual thoughts (KAMA)?


Namaste devotees!

This is new Posting.

Question: How to overcome the sexual thoughts (KAMA)?


Why should one drop Kaama?

Kaama does not limit to sexual thoughts … in fact Kaama means "desire" … any desire is Kaama … be it sexual or else. The suggestion is to drop the desire categorically. One has to understand why desire has to be dropped in the first place.

The desire (Kaama) has a unique effect … it generates a feeling of emptiness within. The fellow feels lacking something that is essential for one's very existence. That is THE MISERY … no one can withstand a feeling of incompleteness within. The desire triggers this sentiment with quite a precision. The fellow infested with a desire is helpless but to seek how to fill the void that the desire creates within. The desire (Kaama) also has a unique property. It is quenched only with an emotional feeling of "having" its target! The void it generates rather the void it really is has to be filled to bring in a feeling of completeness, in other words, contentment.

On the other hand, the desirer (Kaami) has a unique limitation - he/she does not have any storage where anything can be held within! So the fellow develops dependency (though it pretends a kind of ownership in vain) on mind that generates a chain of thoughts in an effort to assure the fellow of "having". But, the mind does not have its own room either ... the thoughts drain away from it as soon as they raise. The mind develops dependency (again wrongly expressed as a notion of ownership trickled down from 'its owner') on the body as it can presumably store the images of thoughts in its repository of brain. But the body (brain) cannot hold any object ... it can only hold only images ... but the images get distorted and worn out as the body ages! The body develops dependency (again wrongly expressed as an act of ownership inherited from 'its prdecessor') on the world around as if to replenish its imagery consistently.

Therefore, one fails to fill the void within in spite of the infinitude of thoughts and actions one keeps exerting seeking out in the world around. The world around being aloof of the void within cannot do anything ... rather it need not do anything as well. The fellow being burnt from within is incapable of filling the void as such. The desire succeeds to safegaurd its forte of existence - the void within. As a result, the ignorant fellow has lost the freedom as well being bound to the world around to extract the notion of filling the void. The fellow feeling incomplete from within and bound from around suffers. Therefore, one has to drop the desire from within ... to be complete from within ... and to be free around.

Yadaa sarve pramuchyante kaamaa ye'sya hridi shritaah |
Atha martyo'mrito bhavati atra brahma samashnute ||

When all the desires swarming the person from within are let go, one is destined to be free as such. The Freedom established within surely flushes the void - the hive of desires - completely establishing one to THE COMPLETENESS one truly is.

How one could drop Kaama?

But how to drop the desires … the void within seem to be so strongly protected ... the desires seem to keep pouring out from somewhere! Till the source of the desires is shut, one cannot drop the desires. Therefore, one needs to address the source of the desires as soon as a desire crops up. As RamaNa Maharshi says, keep your focus on the kindle of the sandle stick that that pours out the fragrant smoke rather than being swayed by the smoke that swirls around to fill the room. The desires are like the fragrant smoke that cannot be traced as it disperses away into the whole space around. Therefore, one needs to focus on the kindle that originates the same ... the individual ... the ego. Therefore, catch yourself whenever you entertain a desire and question why did you entertain the desire ever? Then, you may see the uselessness of the very desire and cut the knot you have tied with the same ... to let it go ...

Yadaa sarve prabhidyante hridayasye'ha granthayah |
Atha martyo'mrito bhavati etaavaddhyanushaasanam ||

Therefore, my dear friend, catch yourself as soon as you intend for progeny … face yourself as you engage in the act of progeny … interrogate yourself as you are mesmerised by your progeny … teach yourself when you are entangled in your very progeny. You address yourself prior to your progeny (desires). Again, do not be fool yourself to limit your progeny to any particular category … the ego is cleverer than you ever thought ... its only intention is to copulate with the world in one way or the other. Therefore, truthful self-vigilence is the only fool-proof way to drop the desires.


Naga Narayana.


Dear Sadaks,
First if your age if less than 50, your body chemistry will work on your desires created by thoughts, emotions and food. In Geetha Bagavan says, withdrawing from Adharmic sexual/emotional thoughts is itself Tapas of Mind. Same time I have seen a sanyasin Vasista cave near Rishikesh engaged in sex with someone wife. Christianity says, Thou shall not cast eyes on neighbor wife. Hindu Dharma says, seeing with lust on someone wife leads to hell where you will be given a copper heated doll of the lady (Neighbor NOT your wife) you liked, to embrace and suffer with burns. Reference from Bagavath. There are young people who totally refrained from sex and emotions. It is blessings. It is because of their Body chemistry. Three Gunas said in Geetha are based on this chemistry. Food plays a very great role. Another way to input the mind away from sex, is think of flesh (Goat or sheep) hanging in a meat shop. Then tell the mind that your are playing with flesh for flesh satisfaction and how ignorant you are. Commonly seen on road side is, a dog and bitch (Lady Dog) engaged in sex. Normally many dislike. But then tell the mind you are doing the same in closed shelter and turn the mind on divine lectures and sat sangh. Another message said in our Sastras- This body is of 9 holes- Nava Dwara Puri. Escape from this you will see GOD. Sri Krisha or Sri Rama had children. But they had perfect Gyan about householder life. Say if one does sex with his wife on Ekadasi Day, and if the woman conceives, the child born will be like demon. Even to have sex with wife there are perfect rules laid down.

A thing of beauty is joy,but sensual sight is lust for most of us.A view of beauty generates plesant feelings,but sensual sights just overwhelm our mind if
samskar disciplines are low or missing.Meditation and listening to enlightening sermons help moderate thoughts and perversions.Vegetarians diet and proper disciplines in life too help.



Even after reading and hearing anything, when "sensuous desires" comes infront of you, then it drags you down. If this is the dilemma, then a simple, easy solution is - make your enemy your friend. In other words, whenever "sensual desire" are troubling you, and when the sensuos object is also present and available, then take that sensuous one and begin to sing and chant the glories of the Lord. It is not possible that you will not succeed in this. Speaking from experience. So be it. Most humbly,

sab kuchh padhate aur sunate huye bhee jab saamane kaam aataa hai to vah neeche ghaseet hee letaa hai. yadi yah samasyaa hai to sabase saral upaay hai : shatruko hee mitra banaa lenaa. arthaat, jab bhee kaam sataaye aur kaaminee bhee upalabdh ho to kaamineeko saath lekar keertan karane lagen. aisaa ho naheen sakataa ki safalataa naheen mile. anubhoot hai.
First, why one wants to overcome sexual instinct?
Just see, be aware of the arising of sexual instinct or any other instinct without any idea that it is good or bad. Something happens at the core. It is not a practice.
Y V Chawla



Dear Sadhak_insight,
You have now now forayed into one of the most controversial issues facing the Human Kind, Philosophers and "Godmen", "Sanyasis & Sanyasins",
since centuries...
And opened up a new and interesting debate...

Sex is among the Primordial,powerful and natural "senses"
that have been endowed to the Human by God or Universal Intelligence...the need for this is very simply, to ensure the procreation and sustenance of the Human Race...
It has been the experience of the vast majority of humans,that over the centuries,Man has utterly failed to conquer or gain mastery/control over the instinct for sex...(a very small number of exceptions,notwithstanding), let alone controlling it...however philosophers/scientists have discovered ways to channelise this powerful source and put it to the use of the common good...and produce geniuses...in different fields...by using a technique called "the sublimation of the sexual energy"...
The Hindus have been pastmasters at this...and have mastered the technique of arousing the Kundalini,usually signalled by the occurence of "urdava retas",and similar visible physical signs...The figurines of Nataraja Half male/half female dancing in ecstacy clearly depicts his urdhava-retas(semi-erection) status...
The Hindus do not hold the symbol of Linga & Yoni in reverence for nothing...it will not be out of place to mention here that the Linga is depicted in an erect position,and,not in a flaccid position...WHAT DOES THIS SYMBOLISE ?
There is a lot to Hinduism,which,at the risk of repitition (is a way of Life(Dharma),and not a religion)...which our ancients hid from the laymen,for reasons best known to them alone...and did more harm than good...
Celibacy,held in high esteem for long,has begun to lose it's high pedastal,as the number of celibates who secretly break all rules and instances where in a kind of vengeance, revel in the worst kind of sexual orgies...
Repression & Suppression of the sex energy has been found by Man is almost impossible...The Hindus too were aware of this and "invented" Tantra,and Tantric rites,and many ioff-shoot philosophies, to achieve Godhead...!
To my mind the fault plainly lies with our "Gurus","Sants",
"Philosophers" and the Learned among us... for deliberately hiding the above facts with detailed explanations to our fellow beings from avery young age itself...
Treating Sex Education as taboo is a major cause to arouse the curiosity of the younger generation to learn the wrong things or learn things wrongly
from people whoo themselves know next to nothing about the Science of Sex..
The Hindus had under Vyatsayana published a treatise on sex the famous " KAMA SUTRA"...but latterday "learned Hindus?",did little to popularise it and bring it up to a more scientific level,making the study of SEX Taboo...!
Well,to be brief,it is in my opinion a WASTE OF VALUABLE TIME AND ENERGY to even think of overcoming SEXUAL THOUGHTS...
It will be better,in my humble opinion to channelise these thoughts into socially more productive activities...
Wishing you the very best,
Yogesh Lajmi.

Shree Hari Ram Ram

Attached are a few related postings from Sadhaka Daily message.
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram


Question: When sense-objects appear in front of us, then we do not
know why we become fickle or weak, what should we do at that time?

Swamiji: One who has learnt to art of swinging the stick (laathi)
from the very beginning, he alone can settle scores when faced with
the enemy. But when the enemy comes in front prior to acquiring the
art of twirling the stick, then you will have to take beating from
the enemy! You know these things discussed in satsang (association
with holy men), but when pleasures come in front of you, at that
time you forget, and those talks are of no use.

"Tab laagi sab hi mitre hai, jab lagi paryo ne kaam
Hem agan shudh haut hai, peetal hove syaam."

"They are all thy allies, my dear,
Till hour of trial is not nearby!
Gold is purified by fire,
Brass goes but black thereby!!"
Crisis is a touchstone of friendship. A friend in need, is a friend

One is learnt thing and the other is known (experienced, realized)
thing. That which is known, is real, innate, which never undergoes
any transmutation or change (no wavering). A learnt thing remains
limited to the intellect level only, it does not reach the Self
within. But that which is known (realized) touches the core
(Self). As long as a thing does not reach the "Self" level, that
thing does not filter down characteristically in man's behaviour as
it really should. He whose aim is Paramatma (God) realization, he
is never contented by things which are merely learnt. On not being
contented, his quest for Truth becomes further intensified. In due
course of his search, he gains the experience of the Supreme

One is "satsang" (Association with Truth with the Holy), and the
other is merely anecdote-telling, critical analysis and appreciation
of the holy books etc. At many places utterances of holy men,
interpretational criticism etc. are available in plenty. But the
association of God-Realized great Souls is a rarity. Men of
spiritual wisdom were very few even before (in Satya, Treta, Dvapar
Yug), but now they are even rarer. Nowadays even students do not
properly study the scriptures with requisite care, total concern and
right perspective. They appear for the examinations to merely get
by. When asked, they are not able to answer. Even that which they
have learnt, they are not able to say, then what to speak of this
knowledge of Truth. It remains far from their reach. It is my
sincere prayer that you understand the deeper and inner nature of
Truth, and not be satisfied with show of study.

When objects of sense enjoyment come in front of you, then all heard-
and-told talks go by the wayside. There is a story of a Pandit and
his cat. He used to tell spiritual tales every night. He had tamed
a cat to sit still besides him, while he rested a candle lamp on the
cat's head, allowing him to read and recite the sacred stories in
the lamp light. If any of the listeners complained about fickleness
and instability of their mind, he would say -"Look even this cat
sitting quietly and very still is far better than you men." The
next day in the midst of the story-telling, a person released a rat
in front of the cat. The moment the cat saw the rat, she pounced at
the pray, dropping the lamp. Similar is the mental state of human
beings. While listening to satsang, they keep the required silence
with utmost solemnness, but when objects of enjoyment appear before
their senses, they lose their control. Because within there is
attraction for money etc., therefore when money comes before them,
then it becomes difficult. It is not that the attraction for sense
enjoyments was not there before. This attraction was there from the
very beginning, but it was supressed. When gold is plated over
brass, it appears like gold. Therefore learnt things are like
polish or plated, but that which is experienced, known, is solidly
rooted within. He who has experience of the Self within, whatever
may come in front of him, he will not be swayed, moved and will not
waver. In all situations he remains the same at all times.

People consider Paramatma (God) realization to be difficult, in
reality it is not difficult; however giving up objects of sense
enjoyment and pleasures is difficult. (to be continued)

From "Be Good" in English pg 78 and "Saadhan, Sudha, Sindhu" pg 675
by Swami Ramukhdasji.


The Lord has said:

"Bhogaisvaryaprasaktaanam tayaapahrtacetasaam
vyavasaayaatmikaa buddhih samaadhau na vidheeyate."

"No mind that is lured by sense-objects and engrossed in sensual enjoyments
and glory of material possessions can ever enter, O, Partha, the state of
contemplation and divine communion transcendental." *

He who is intensely attached to sense-enjoyments and acquisition of material
things, cannot even conceive or decide on moving towards God. There is no
resolve to turn towards God, and when this resolve is not strong enough, where
is the question of God-Realization ?

When one rises above the transitory attractions of sense-objects (the unreal),
then God-Realization is not at all difficult. Where is the difficulty in
realizing what already is, that which is self-evident, ever present, real,
imperishable and eternal? That which already "IS".

So how is one to redeem one's self from the lure of the unreal, the transitory

Observe the Discipline of Karma Yoga - The Yoga of Action. The Lord has
spoken in the Gita about this Yoga in a special way and praised it's glory -
"Karmayogo visisyate" (Gita 5:2). The clarity with which Karma Yoga is
propounded and explained in the Gita is nowhere else in other scriptural texts.

The purport of Karma Yoga is : to make others happy and expect nothing in
lieu thereof. Impart happiness to all - parents, wife, children, siblings, in
office, friends, neighbors and everyone that you meet. If you follow this
declaration, the lure of the unreal, temporary will give way.

"LET ALL BE HAPPY" - Such an emotion is of extreme value, it is not an
ordinary thing. If you wish not to be lured and fickle when sense-objects come
before you, then adhere in action to this predominant thought - How to make
others happy? How can others be relieved from sorrow and pain? Wherever
possible, utilize the resources you have to serve others, as these resources
will not always remain with you, and therefore it is better that they are
utilized. This sort of expression (bhava) of keen desire and love of serving
others, will make it easy to become free from sense enjoyments.

However, if your intention (bhava) is - How can my happiness be safe? How
can comfort / relief come to me? How can I receive praise? How can my beliefs
be held strong? If such expressions dominate your thinking, you cannot be
saved from the lure of the temporary.

As we become more focused on making others happy, the desire for one's own
sense enjoyments, will slowly dwindle away of it's own accord, and God
Realization will be self-evident.

From: "Be Good" by Swami Ramsukhdasji


BENEFITS OF A FIRM RESOLVE – Not Succumbing to Sense Enjoyments

Question: Until objects of enjoyment do not appear before us, our mind
remains firm, that we shall not succumb to them. However we become weak when
enjoyments confront us! What should we do?

Swamiji: It is a very good question. The intention to avoid succumbing to
sense-enjoyments (Bhoga) is certainly a rare quality, indeed! It is a
treasured aspiration. It is true human spirit (manusyataa), to turn down the
ties of the world and awaken our relation with God, which in reality is the only
solid relation.

Till objects do not come in front of us, our mind remains firm that we will
not be entangled in the enjoyments (bhogas). Even having the intention and
resolution itself, is a matter of great milestone. It is truly an immense
quality to not desire sense enjoyments. It is definitely not an ordinary thing.
If there be even a little inclination to give up the world and turn towards God,
its fruit will not be fleeting, rather it will be everlasting.

"Svalpamapyasaya dharma traayate mahato bhayaat." (Gita 2:40).
Even ten fold gains in wealth or "the kingdom of the Three Worlds" is like a
tiny spec in comparison to this firm resolve.

When objects appear before us, we become weak and are easily enticed, so why
such is our state? It is because we think of our frailty and easily succumb,
out of accumulated bad habits. Having heard in "Satsang" (through good company)
and read books, we think of improving, but soon thereafter forget, give up and
fall back into our old ways. This habit of reverting to our old ways weakens
us. If you have developed good habits such as giving up a bad thing once and
for all, or holding fast to a thing that you truly believe and accept, then
certainly you would not have been in this miserable plight! Pardon me, do not
take it wrong; but this is dilemma indeed! We do not remain stable on the ideas
we initially think about. There is not so much vice in the objects or in their
acquisitions, as it is in our evil habits. Till there is no firm resolution or
determination in you, you will not progress in any field in your life. A very
big loss is taking place by spoiling your habits.
You will be blessed if you cultivate the habit of remaining firm on – "God is
mine". Under whatever condition or circumstance, only God is mine. The world
can never be mine, and will not be mine even now or forever.

Do not kill the intention which you once harbored in your resolve. Slaying an
idea again and again brings about birth and death. Therefore remain firm in
your resolve and let the objects of enjoyment come before your sight, but you
will not be tempted, nor will you be shaken from your resolve. You will not sip
your own spit. By remaining firm on an idea, a force will be generated within,
a power will descend. Then you will not suffer from such a plight. People may
call you a coward, abuse or condemn you, but remain firm and unaffected.

From "Be Good" by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Related Link: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.net
Related Link: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji.org
Post message: gita-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Recent Activity:
All past 3650+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

24,500+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189

Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.



No comments: