Friday, February 18, 2011

[gita-talk] Re: Guidance Needed for Retirement and Sanyaas

 

NEW QUESTION

Ram Ram
Thank you Moderators for providing the links to past postings. I have been going through a few of these. I am particularly interested as I am nearing Sanyaas and would like to go back to India after living abroad for over half my life. I would like to now take up the life of a recluse, dedicated only to God, study of Gita and spreading His spiritual truths to those I come in contact with. I have been deeply touched by Swamiji's teaching and see nothing but auspiciousness in making this life transition. The well settled children and wife are all properly taken care off. In fact they are willing and very receptive to me taking up this path without any desire to accompany me or pursue a life of spirituality.

I seek your guidance in suggesting conducive places for spiritual sadhana in India, to pursue a life dedicated to God. My needs are not many, but it would be good to be in a holy place, possibly where Gangaji, Saints or other spiritual activities are going on. I have some health issues, but none that should deter me from this path. I welcome your insights and suggestions.

Mohan
===========================================

PRIOR QUESTION
Respected Sadhaks,

I am 53 and may seek premature retirement from my central govt
service. Married and family responsibilities are more or less over.

I want to spend my post-retirement life in the company of Gita
scholars/students/lovers. I have been influenced deeply by the books
of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj.

Can you kindly guide me where to go?

Kind regards,
Suresh C Sharma

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NEW POSTING

Hari Om

Regarding females taking sanyaas/ stepping out of the home - Swamiji
does not subscribe clearly to that. Undoubtedly, he does not like
that. Matter ends there. Mira Dassji has precisely brought out a
comprehensive reply. Nothing more can be added.

Reg Males - let me clarify that I have narrated what exactly I would
do. In fact, it is not sanyaas, it is retirement - a vaanprashtha
type of state - for household between 50 and 75 years of age.

In that age ideally one should be going for a sadhana to eliminate
ego and mineness slowly, definitely and totally. That can be only
by "service". A household considering retirement then must always
be "accessible" because his intention is not to give pains, worries
and uncertainty to his family members, parents or wife. He does not
hate them or reject them. There is no bitterness in him. Rather
there is a preparation in him to consider all of them as Vasudevah.
VASUDEVAH SARVAM.

He seeks higher sadhana without causing any hurt to them. He always
remains ready and helpful to them in all circumstances. He knows for
sure that " any selfless service destroys mineness." Hence his
accessibilty does not strengthen mineness. It destroys the mineness-
because his "bhava" or intention is to serve to them and to all and
sundry always- without expecting anything in return. Before
leaving , he has already served them considerably and
wholeheartedly..

Further remaining "accessible" provides him and all his family
members peace, harmony and respect. It is a conscious effort for
withdrawal and betterment. His total handing over to them or to his
wife of his worldly possessions and continuous availabilty of his
body for them makes his service to them- total and complete.

Any one who simply elopes is not taking retirement. He is taking
sanyaas. The rules of sanyaas are very strict. The punishment for
errors are very serious. There is no need to do that in today's
world. It may hurt those who remain behind and you lose
opportunities of continuous service to them and seeing God in them .
Rules do not provide for your return- come what may. Their memories
may haunt you and snatch away your peace. Where is the need for such
risky course?

A retired life, with a peaceful and satisfied household , is only
ideal. It is an option to be taken only by that person who has
destroyed already considerable mineness by serving family members
and thereby peace has arisen in him and a satisfaction generated
independence has arisen in his immediate family members.. Else he
must remain in house and keep serving, serving and serving immediate
family members, parents, wife, elders, children till he develops
peaceful dispassion.

Between the age of 50 and 75 this course is logical. If both parents
or any one of them is still alive, you may take them with you to
your native place and whole heartedly serve them- as you serve God.
Old people normally like to remain in their native places. The dust
of native place is dear to all. Your wife can also if she so wants
remain with you and live a contented pious sadhana life. She can
spent as much time as she wants with her children and with you as
and when she wills. Then service to cow. Then to society at large,
to the elders, to suhasinis ( sisters , daughters from various
relations ) - all expectationless service. You will keep becoming
more and more peaceful, more and more devotional, more and more
lover of God. All this- without any past memories haunting you ! You
can focus on total elimination of vices from your conduct- mind,
speech and body in a peaceful manner. I would arrange for my own
sustenance before I retire. Question of remaining dependent on any
one for anything does not arise. If I don't have that provision, I
would strive first to do that arrangement- financials etc.

Service destroys mamata (mineness) - it is a law. If You have
destroyed "mineness" fully , you instantly become egoless - it is a
law. A Karma Yogi does that. He destroys mamata first. Ego then
eliminates automatically. If you have destroyed ego fully, you
instantly become "mamtaless" ( mineless)- it is a law. A Jnana Yogi
does that. He destroys ego (me) first. His "mamata" (mine) then gets
destroyed automatically. In Bhakti Yoga God Himself destroys your
mamata and ego. You become free always.

As simple as that!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,

Ref: Prepetina Gonsalves. Woman are said to be behind every
successful man. That is because their love and tendering care gives
man strong power. Besides woman such as Sant Sakubai, Meera Bai,
Sant Anusuya, Sati Savitri and many more did what man saints never
did. They could stop revolution of earth, they saw Yama and got life
back, Sakubai rose from death, Meera` s poision Sri Krishna drank,
for Padmavati wife of sant Jai Dev who wrote Geetha Govind, God
Jaganath appeared first to Padmavathi. Why, my wife S.Danalakshme
aged 59 has little rheumatic complaints and sicknesses. In spite of
that she prepared food for Sri Krishna limping with pain, cleans the
pooja room with great difficulty, garlands Sri Krishna neatly and
patiently. But she does much little meditation than me. But God
approves her love more than mine several folds. We are in Chennai.
She predicts things that happens. She told me about Tusnami 2 days
earlier. So woman can be much Godlier than men.

Even many Sanyasins had Ego and mineness. These can be eradicated by
constant sadana only and God` s blessings. Sant Ekanath has said,
To day is your gift my Bagavan, tomorrow I do not know what, my day
ends tomorrow nothing (my family, wealth, people around, all the
mine and myself) comes with me. Oh Bagavan you will only come that
last breath, I know. This one should remember most of the day, then
mine will disappear.

Sanyasin Dharma says Upanashids, that once Sanyas taken, a mistake
even by mind done, there is NO prayachit (No excuse)

Jai Sri Krishna

baiya sathyanarayan

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My dear elder brother Sharma ji,

Hari Om,

If ever in Rishikesh I suggest wonderful satsang opportunity.
Hari Om.
Raj Kumar
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Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Pujya Swamiji's messages in the last year, more clearly in the last
month were "Wherever you are, there Paramatma IS".. there is no need
to go anywhere.

He specifically did not recommend females to leave their household
for spiritual pursuits. Meera Das Ram Ram

Attached is an old sadhak message posting when someone asked him
this question (even though more focused on younger females, it is
equally applicable) -

Question: Girls are leaving their home for pursuing a spiritual
path. They are not wanting to get married. Swamiji, what is your
opinion regarding this?

Swamiji: If you get true association it is OK, but in this day and
age I have not seen such true associations (satsang). They should
therefore stay at home and do satsang. These days I do not encourage
women to not get married, because they are not able to get true,
good spiritual associations.

Question: What should they do, stay at home and do their spiritual
practices?
Swamiji: Yes they can stay at home (parent's home, brother's home)
and do satsang. I am unable to see associations that are true. In
this day and age, it is very difficult to find. If you have true and
ardent desire for God, going outside to some ashram, some spiritual
place to attain spiritual enlightenment, is an impossible task. Stay
at home, with parents, with brother, under their shelter, then it is
possible. One has to decide for them selves, but for females this is
very difficult in this day and age. Unfortunatly, it is even
difficult of males as well. True good associations are simply not
available in these times. If there is a deep longing within, many
good spiritual practices are available to attain one's salvation.
One must meet a good supporting spouse. Having the aim, "I want to
attain my salvation," that is the key. This single pointed aim is
more important than anything else. It is only possible if the
determination is strong. I tell these things with great vigor and
force, but people are simply not paying attention.

In this day and age, without getting married, females cannot easily
remain safe from the world. By having an ardent desire for God, they
can attain God Realization by being at home. In fact, with great
ease one can realize God. Become ready ! Become alert !

When your direction is not clear, when your aim is not clear, how
can God Realization be possible? With a true heart you are not
desiring God. Even among those that are here, there are only a
handful that I see that have a true desire for God. It requires a
conviction such as - "even if I die I will not commit sin."

True spiritual guides are simply not seen these days. Very few are
there, that are telling the true essence. If you take complete
refuge in God, He will guide you. There will be no obstacles.

From Discourse by Swami Ramsukhdasji in Hindi on Aug 28, 2000 at 8:30
am
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhaks

I read with interest the deliberations on this Satsanga web site. I
genuinely feel this is one of the best satsanga forum. I have
questions on this retirement issue. What about females? Can they
also consider retirement from home and go to some ashram or secluded
place and pursue spiritual goals? It is not that males only are
sufferers. Females too tolerate injustices and domination. What are
the views of Saints and Gita etc on the subject? Secondly, Mr Vyas
has charted a course with amazing clarity on the subject of
retirement. My question is why "accessible"? How "mineness" can get
eradicated when you are accessible to your family? How at the end
you get egoless/minenessless? Does Sanyaas principles permit such
course of action as suggested by Mr Vyas?

Prepetina Gonsalves
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Of the responses in favour of retirement/sanyaas , Sadhaks should
consider response of A V Raghunath.

After having rendered self less service to the immediate family and
THEREBY- ONLY thereby -gaining dispassion- vairagya or finding one
self "in nothing left to be done for family" state, if at all one
has liking for retirement, then one should migrate to one's native
place. After serving family, the next in line is "society", you owe
society a lot in fact. There you will find ample opportunities of
redeeming subtle debts and becoming totally debt free. If such a
native place is a small village/town- it is wonderful.
There one should indulge in cow service. Service to the down
trodden. Service to the elders... And slowly, slowly by rendering
selfless service lead the self to egolessness/minelessness.

However there are considerations of one's present state while
contemplating. It should NEVER be out of bitterness or anger or
frustration or helplessness or hatred or rejection or to teach
lesson to some one or out of the fact that you have been defeated or
self criticism or self perceived failure. NEVER. It should emerge
out of peace generating naturally in you of having lived a life of
Karma Yogi ( Household, Grihastha) for say 25/35 years and out of
the fact that by and large your house hold duties have come to an
end and you are not having any "real dependents" upon you- like old
parents or wife.

So long old parents are alive, if there are capable brothers, and
parents give consent, then it is another matter but otherwise, the
real God is in their feet only.

As regards better half, an option and always guilt free option
should be made honourably available to her. Live with your children
if you want, live with me the way I do or live alone in the home if
you like and are comfortable - do whenever you want whatever out of
the three options. Handover every worldly possession to her
gracefully , as a matter of duty and live your life with bare
minimum ( out of a portion of say pension or some fixed income) .
Total freedom should be given ti her respectfully with access of
yourself always available to her- unconditionally - till you breath
your last.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
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----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari
|| Ram Ram ||

Dear Sureshji,
Thank you very much for sharing your personal issue so candidly. In
some form or another many of the sadhakas face similar situations.
This is a great example of journey for a sadhaka marching
from 'Vishad Yoga' towards the 'Moksha Sanyasa Yoga'. The quality,
speed and number of responses received on this topic were very
impressive, encouraging and helpful with which you seem to found the
answer. This shows the positive dynamism of the blessed Gita-talk
group. It is not surprising to see since the group was started on
holy inspiration by none other than Swamiji Maharaj.

Few more comments:

1. Generally when we talk about Sanyasa, it is leaving the world and
going to the forest but Gitaji clearly defines who is a true
Sanyasi, "a Nitya Sanyasi or ever a renunciate is the one who
neither hates nor desires (Ref: Gita 5-3, Jneyah sa nityasanyasi yon
a dvestu na kanksati …).

2. During our spiritual journey, we are not to become despondent
while facing adverse situations, Swamji Maharaj said that we should
stay happy in all circumstances, this in itself is a great tapas
(austerity). In the introduction to Sadhak Sanjiveeni, Swamiji says
that there is no situation or a setting in our lives which we cannot
use to help us advance in our spiritual path.

3. No body is to be blamed for our seemingly bad situation or the
circumstances, it is due to our own prarabhada, people on the scene
happen to be delivering what is supposed to come to us due to our
own past karmas.

4. The beauty of the spiritual journey is to transform our life such
as to provide us with peace, harmony, joy and stability at all of
our personality levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual.
With an attitude of love, understanding and cooperation all issues
can be resolved as they affect us.

5. Gitaji is teaching us to do our Swa-dharma (duty) at all times
keeping in view the Ashram, Varna (Caste) and situation at hand, our
duty is not to be shunned at any time (Ref: Gitaji 2/31-37). Also,
our Swadharma or duty is not to judge other as to whether they are
doing their duty.

6. The ideal attitude is to strive for is to have no insistence (no
Agraha), we can advise or suggest in a pleasant manner but we should
not insist or even expect that others must follow our advice. The
insistence that people should listen to us only, do what we say,
will give us nothing but pain to us and others.

7. The world outside of us is nothing but a projection of our mind
only. (Ref: Gitaji 7-5, jivabhatam mahabahio, yaye `dam dharyate
jagat). In a given setting, it is said that 90% is the attitude and
10% the situation. With the change in our attitude of loving,
understanding and not finding faults, we will start to radiate peace
and joy only, the others will take us as a good living example and
will consider an ideal to follow, what a great one does, other
follow. (Ref: Gita: 3-21, yad-yad acarati sesthas, tad-tad evataro
janah ….). We read examples, at hermitage of saints, even the
animals of opposite nature live together in peace.

Few illustrations:

a). Life on earth is like waiting room on a railway station, people
come there, stay together for some time and then go their own ways.
Separation is the sure thing in this world, nothing is permanent, so
why get excited about something so temporary.

b). Just like on the bed of the river there are sand particles, they
travel with the moving stream, some times they come together and
other times they separate. The relatives and friends have come
together to separate only in the end. We just have to pay the dues,
sometimes we receive and other times we pay back. After the account
is squared off, debt is clear, our account is closed.

c). Just like when the boat is in the water, water should not get in
the boat, similarly, we should live in the world but the world
should not get into us. --- Sri Ramakrishna

d). It does not matter which direction the ship is sailing in but
Compass always points to the north. In the same way, does not which
activity of the world we are doing, keep our mind on God. --- Sri
Ramakrishna

Ram Ram
Humble pranams,
Madan Kaura

----------------------------------------------------------
Priy sadhak
As you say you want to retire ! So leave everything including "what
you should do" to the God. Be a toy in hands of God, play with God
as son plays with parents. "Hoihe soi jo ram rachi rakha ko kari
tarak badave sakha Ram siya Ram siya ram jai jai ram."
Thanx
Raja Gurdasani

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PRIOR POSTING
Dear Varun ji,

I am indeed grateful to all of you who have lighted candles in my
dark room. The final result is that I am not seeking retirement from
my office and will continue to remain with the family.

When I mentioned something about my family members, my purpose was
not to judge/degrade them. It was merely that I as a hubby, as a
father, as a guardian, in my social context was feeling exhausted
like an old cow, unable to yield milk and then the owners deciding
to sell it to the butcher and get some money.

Now, when I am convinced that the family members like many many
others in the world are heading towards the bottomless well/pit and
are not listening to the wise counsels of the great saints then, how
long will I continue dragging myself towards the pit with them? My
possessive wife does not stop me from reading scriptures, rather she
assists me in that, but because she out of her own insecurity and
cruel possessiveness of me feels a little comfortable that "at
least, the hubby is at home" Her "God puja" consists of single point
"sakaam bhavâ" that hubby remains in her grip and so remains other
members of the family (Shashikala bahan, I AM NOT TERMING MY WIFE
IS COPPER AS IRON, BUT DO NOT EXPECT ME TO CALL HER COPPER AS GOLD).
When I use the word "creepers" for her and other members, my aim was
not "creep" but the creeping plant which wants to grow up always
seeking support, i.e., dependency on others. Let me assure my
learned readers/participants that I am nearly detached " but I love
to be with nature, eco-friendly ashrams, Gita loving people, simple
and honest persons" not because of some desire/lust, because as the
Swamiji mentions "underground water is everywhere, but our purpose
is served only by the handpump/well"

Life so far, in family context, has been a "Tale told by an idiot,
full of sound and fury, signifying nothing", borrowing from
Shakespeare and its end if continued the way my wife and others want
me to go on, will be ˜not with a bang, but with a whimper" again
borrowing from T.S. Eliot.

I was not talking of sanyaas/retirement to become something
else "when there is lot of noise coming from the loudspeakers around
you (round the clock), the only option is either get out for some
other place or put some earplugs for ever. Nevertheless, woman is a
purgatory" no one knows better than I do.

I have been to the Gita Bhawan, Rishikesh several times and was
present there when the Swamiji breathed his last but detached and
aloof. If someone can please tell whom I should meet there, I will
not waste a single day and will be happy to travel to Rishikesh
again.

Thank you all from the core of my heart. All of you have helped me a
lot and thanks a lot to the moderator for running such a wonderful
divine group. You have not only taken me to the divine water but
have made me to drink it.

Kind regards,
Suresh C Sharma
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear sadaks,

To seek God or liberate or to do perfect sadhana (spiritual
disciplines) if these are within our efforts, we could have been
long ago become one with Godhood. Since we are only trying but not
with complete renunciation, we are coming back here again and again.
This is our experience. Sadhaks touch your hearts and say is this
not true? Truth is always like neem leaf taste - bitter. Illusion is
like sugar.

Mr. Sharma question is answered in so many angles. We have dealt so
much about surrender earlier.

One`s Karma only Bhagavan knows as HE said to Arjuna that past,
present and future HE knows. Mr. Suresh can stay where he is, he can
surrender to God, let HIM (Bhagavan) decide where and how to be.
Then the path will be perfect. Saying things like - you should do
like this, you have to see about your grandchildren, you have to see
to your parents, and so on. The truth is ultimately what happens is
HIS will. Just surrender and be relaxed like Prahalad.

Jai Sri Krishna
baiya sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------
Sanyaas is one of the four Ashramas in our scriptures. Who is to
enter it, when is he to enter it, is dependent on the dictates of
the Shastras (scriptures) – not on our conveniences and
inconveniences faced in life. It is not an escape route.

Shri Bhagawaan has also said:

Tasmaat-shaastram pramaanam te kaarya-akaarya vyavasthitau/
Gyaatvaa shaastra-vidhaan-oktam karma kartum iha-arhasi// 16:24

"Therefore let the scriptures be the authority in determining what
ought to be done and what ought not to be. Having known what is
prescribed in the ordinance of scriptures, you should act
accordingly in this world." (Gita 6:24)

Respectful regards,

Dr. Ranjeet Singh.

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Hare Krishna

Mahalakshmiji, you have indeed hit the bull's eye. No doubt about
it. Sureshji, if your family is stopping you from walking towards
God, then just renounce it. Don't give a second thought to it. After
death of this body, only dharma and God will go with you. No one
else.
But from your posting, it doesn't seem so. It seems that they are
not stopping you but they are merely disinterested of your
inclination towards spirituality.

Also your reason for Sanyaas is not detachment and dispassion but
dislike. The reason for this dislike is your family is not
conducting themselves as per your expectations. If you had not
expected anything from them then you wouldn't have been so confused.

And also one who has expectations how can he become a sanyaasi??
Lord says "Arjuna, you must know that what they call Sanyasa is no
other than Yoga; for none becomes a Yogi, who has not abandoned His
sankalpas(thoughts of the world)" (Gita 6.2)

Expectation comes only after sankalpa. After clinging on a worldly
thought, a desire erupts. (Gita 2.62) Sanyaas is for those who don't
have any worldly thoughts. You have failed in HSC (renouncement of
desire) but you want to pass post-graduation (sanyaas)!! [Graduation
is to be freed from worldly thoughts.]

Sureshji, please don't take theka of others. Just send your family
on a vacation, on a long long vacation. You might have read this in
Swamiji's books

TERE BHAVE JO KARE BARO BHULO SANSAR
NARAYAN TU BAITHKE APNO BHUVAN BHUVAR

Sir, just chill out and engage in God. Don't worry about them. God
is more worried about them than you can imagine. Just serve them and
break your mineness. That's it.

If you are still confused then go to Gita-Bhawan, (Rishikesh,
Swargashram) and take wise council of those souls who have been
closely associated with Swamiji for many years. Reveal to them all
what you said here and they will guide you surely.

Thanks,

Hare Krishna
Varun P. Paprunia
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Suresh Sharma,

RETIREMENT WITH A MISSION IS LIKE A FLOWER WITH FRAGRANCE.

We greatly appreciate your willingness to seek suggestions for your
retirement era. Please consider tracing your roots and adopt and
rehabilitate your ancestral village. Everyone of us must take care
of our own mother, our own mother tongue and our own mother
(ancestral) village. the great need of this time is applied Bhagavad
Gita.

Sincerely,
A.V.Raghunath
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One has to go within and find the true self......
one has to practice whatever has been read and understood to
experience the true self....
Understanding is whole thing.....

Sushil Jain
----------------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING
Hari Om

Some final thoughts on the subject:

1 Never look out for an acknowledgement from family of what you have
done for them. It is a desire not liked by God. It hurts your
spiritual goals. A curt answer that whatever you did was your duty
will then hurt you more.

2 Never seek mercy from near and dears. An answer that you were
foolish enough will readily come. Self pity also doesn't make
surroundings really strong. It is contagious.

3 Never impose your thoughts over the family members. You will have
no answer to the counter question as to whether every soul is
independent or not.

AKKAL SHARIRA OOPAJE, DIYA LAAGE DAMB

Wisdom arises from within. If some body tries to impose it, he is
perceived as poisonous snake.

Don't invite disrespect for you.

4 Remember each soul is accumulating Karmas of their own. You have
got connected with them because of contractual karmic obligations
and the moment accounts are settled, all will part ways. It is a law.

5 Set examples of decent conduct irrespective of its immediate
results/reception. Children will use them when there is real need
for the same irrespective of your presence at that time.

6 Serve, Serve and Serve. Destroy mineness/ego/likings and
dislikings using one weapon only- expectationless service. That is
possible only when you are in your home- dealing with people who are
not "actually" yours. Once the thought comes in your mind that they
are not "yours" the service by you becomes real and divine and lifts
you spiritually. Before that it is "selfish"- arising out of
mineness and hence done for self and hence producing bondage. Lucky
are those guys who realise before serving that the servicee
is "actually" not mine.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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MY respects to all in this foorum....
I am noting the interest in this topic....very strong indeed!
One has to think deeply and ponder all the varieties of responses.
Let me add one more thought into the mix.....my gurudeva, A.C.
Bhaktivedanta Swami, mentioned occasionally to his disciples that
the last straw which drove him to finally take sannyas was when his
wife traded his Srimad Bhagavatam for tea. She had threatened, and
he told her, "tea, or me"......she made the choice. So, there is
definitely a line which a sadhu must draw, of being willing to
tolerate only to a certain extent.
Are there offenses to the concepts of Guru, shastra, or sadhu in
the home? Analyze this before deciding whether it is a fit place
to reside. And then know, that purification will surely take place
once having departed.....again, another story from the life of my
guru, is that shortly after leaving for sannyas, he was gored by a
bull. I do not remember so much the story, but it is documented in
various places.....there is a biography six volumes called Srila
Prabhupada Lilamrta if you have inclination. Even one whose only
intent WAS and IS to spread bhakti, to give an opportunity to others
to learn Sanatan dharma....still....so much pain and suffering on an
external level. So, know that whatever you choose, you must come
to the level of "atmarama" finding pleasure in the self alone. This
level is very high....and to attain it, you may certainly need to
take steps to seek out exalted association....the Lord will guide
you if you sincerely cry out to Him.
respectfully,
Mahalaksmi Dasi

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Jai Hanuman

Finally a short practical event from every day life:

You are in a car which stops at a signal. A beggar spreads his hands
and you give say Dollar one to him. A friend sitting beside will
call that payment as "donation" . So will God.

You reach home and your son comes to you and seeks money. You give
him say Dollar one to him. Same friend will not call that payment as
donation. Nor will God.

Why?

Now compare these two payments. At both places you did your duty. At
both places you didn't expect money to be returned. At both places
you wanted the recepient to become happy. At both places you
renounced.

What was the difference between the two payments then? This is
question !

Answer is - To the beggar you never considered to be "mine" while
paying. But you considered your son to be "mine" while paying. What
else was the difference? This difference has changed the very karma
and its results.

If you give monthly expenses to your wife without considering,
inside your heart, her to be "mine"- Law of Karma will classify the
entire amount as "donation". If not- bondage!

How easy ! How practical!! How Simple!!! That is Swamiji
Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Hare Krishna

As I understand, Sanyaas should be taken only when one is completely
detached (teevra vairagya). In some cases such a soul does not
renounce world, in fact the world renounces him. Example of
Shukdevji fits the bill, whereas in case of Arjuna and Janaka etc
even after realization they did not take sanyaas. A sadhak should
make his spiritual practice in accordance with the situation he is
in. If solitude becomes must for sadhak's spiritual progress then
God will change his situation where he can do his sadhan alone.

Sadhak's duty is only to serve others and not to find anyone's
fault. If anyone's fault is visible then rather than hating him,
sadhak should pity him and pray to God for his welfare. The biggest
point in serving is to fulfill other's ethical wishes. He should not
force his spiritual views on worldly people, because it will prove
counter-productive. Swamiji gave discourses only to serve humanity.
He never sported attitude of "I can improve others. I am more
knowledgeable than others etc". Whatever Swamiji gave He gave only
with the intention to serve. We should also carry the same sentiment.

Hare Krishna,

Varun P. Paprunia
----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Yeah ! It is Marcus Brutus " Dear Julius Ceaser !! Dear Bhaiyya !
Hope you didn't mind my arrow like response. We at GT Group are like
a family. I keep on taking such liberties. Bad habit according to my
Hubby. In fact, I had to go through a snub from my Hubby but then I
wrote what indeed I felt right. Welcome to this family. Please keep
writing and contributing. You are now a part of really selfless and
divine forum. Please keep sharing your views. In fact "Et tu Brutus"
I should also say because of your humble and genuine approach and
your capacity to appreciate such brutal attack. Hats Off to you. May
Lord Krishna be always with you. Indeed you have a heart made of
Gold. This world is sustained on the strength of people like you.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Shashikala

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir,

Since you are still young at 53, you should devote some more years
in doing your karma by doing social work of your liking and to the
uplift of down trodden and poor people.

Best regards,
Sivaraman.V

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Jai Hanuman

We as humans have to face this peculiar creation made by God as an
acid test.This world is simply an examination hall for each and
every human being. Here is the world which like greggary(sweet) or
salt from which ever side or way you "consume" it is sorrowful.
(DUKHALAYAM) Biggest treachery comes from the closest people. There
is no way a permanent element can derive pleasure out of temporary
element. Now what is our role? How to go about it? How to conquer?
How to pass with distinction marks from this examination?

Art of Living in this world as taught by Swamiji is simple. Don't
try to change the circumstances. Change yourself. Don't judge
others. Judge yourself. Problem is that generally we judge others
and pardon ourselves. It should be reverse. Once you concentrate on
your duties and others' rights - you are on right path. But ego does
not often let us do that. We often end up talking about our rights
and others' duties. How wife should behave, how children should
behave etc etc. What we don't pay attention to is that "talking"
doesnot help. Conduct or silent example setting before the kids
helps.If you want some one to live as per Gita- the best way is to
live yourself as per Gita. At the appropriate hour the vibrations
will be caught by the children. Any hurry or insistence invariably
gets counter productive. You have no capacity to mould others as per
your wishes. That you can't do. You have capacity to mould yourself
as per wishes of others. That you can do. Where is the wisdom in
attempting what we can't do and ignoring what we can do !

I oppose bitterly this "mind" only because it always suggests what
we can't do. From the perspective of mind it is natural because it
exists in "nothingness" only- past/future! But from ever
existing "self" point of view- it proves fatal. Hence scriptures ask
you to drop reliance on mind.

Once we are on right path- what is my duty - the result in due
course is miraculous and unbelievable !!

What is the result ? Result is that "dukhalayam" gets converted
practically into "God" Himself (Vasudevah Sarvam) ! Once you don't
desire anything from anyone - then that anyone becomes God -as far
as you are concerned. This is something which sounds extra ordinary
but my experience has taught me that it is true.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhak
Dear Suresh Sharma
I feel while remaining with the family, you can still have God
realisation by having detached view, Sakshi bhav, surrendering
fruits of all actions to God, leaving Karta Bhav and of course
meditation and Bhakti to wards Supreme God what so ever name you
call him
Thanks

G K Agrawal
----------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krsna

Respected Suresh ji

I have been following your mail and the replies. I fully understand
you confusion. Please don't lose your faith in Sri Krishna. Give
your thought or desire some time. If your faith and devotion is
strong and it doesn't deplete with time and surroundings and
circumstances Sri Krishna will show you some way out. In the
meantime completely surrender to Sri Krishna. He will take care of
your problem.As Sri Krishna states in the BG 9:22 "Ananyas
cintayanto maam ye.....yoga-ksemam vahamy aham"

Hare Krsna
"srivally k"

----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Sharmaji ! Did you observe what Mike told ? "I don't judge" ! How
can you judge creation made by our Great Father ? After all we are
His children only - nothing more! Consider the "certainty" flowing
out of Mike's expression and experience! I told you before that you
are "pure" (open) hearted person ! This is how spiritual
reconciliations take place- notwithstanding
culture/caste/colour/country/civilisation etc !!! That is where Holy
Gitaji and Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj shine like Polar
Star!

"My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am
sure of this!"

That is real "advice" ! That is what is "warranted" !! You can't
be "Judge" in this world made by Paramatma !! That is "Satsanga" !
That is "nectar" ! That is "Divine" ! This is "Mantra"! This
is "guidance" ! Believe me on that ! ( I am taking this liberty of
asking you to "believe me" because you addressed the Question to me,
too )

That propels you to shed your"ego",your "intellect",
your 'mind," .your" "mamata" (mineness) , your "likings" ( Raag) and
your "dislikings" (Dvesha) !.That requires you to get rid of
your "antahkarana" - by not acknowledging the same to be "yours" !

That makes you subdued too. That also makes you a child. That is
reality. That is "SAT" within the meaning of Gitaji.

That is "viveka" (Conscience), my Dear Sharmaji !

This is " Geeta Talk Group" ! Most certainly this is "Humanity" !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sharmaji,

I don't see why you have to go any where.
If you are comfortable in the place you have lived all these years,
just stay there. If not, just find a surrounding you are comfortable
with.
You already love Gita Ji and also have been deeply influenced by
the books of a particular Swami. You have Internet, pretty much
wherever you are. Just translate sections of the book you like
to English. If it is already in English, re-write in your words.
Share your insight with others, who may be interested.
That is one way to spread your learning among others who may not
have thought of such things, but not averse to it.
Even if you can spread it to one other individual, that is plenty.
You can also share on the Internet. Start a blog site to
post your insights.You are all ready in parama-satsangh.
Joyfully participate in life- you can only do it, when you have
internally withdrawn.

Enjoy

KST
Koti Sreekrishna

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Suresh Sharmaji, Let us follow the Lord in doing good karma and
you can think of joining us . --Prem

Prem Kumar Khullar
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Shashikala bahan,

Et tu Brutus.
______________

Dear Sadhna Karigar ji,

Much help indeed.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mike,

Your affection has wrapped me from all sides. (Manas : ab mohi bha
bharos
Hanumanta / Binu harikripa milahi nahi santa - Now, I am convinced
Hanuman that
without God’s grace, we cannot even meet the saints)
__________________

Dear Pratap Bhatt ji,

Your words have opened my eyes, and they make me sad also, though I
know the
truth of ‘shubhashubh prityagi’
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Baiya Sathyanarayan,

Your words are like torch to me. I can now see the path more clearly.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Raj Kumar ji,

You make my heart weep and my eyes damp, out of sheer happiness.
This forum has
really helped me. Krishna’s grace â€" unbounded and all around.
________________________

Dear Capt Johann Samuhanand,

Much grateful for the kind words and guidance, easy to practise.

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Bandook Singh ji,

I will continue my duties towards all â€" vasudhaiv kutumbkam.

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Vyas ji,

Bura jo dekhan mai gaya, bura na milya koi
Jo ghat dekha aapna, mujhse bura no koi.

Once again thank you all for your valuable guidance and making me
see the light in right perspective. I will continue my job and
remain with the family - reading scriptures, attending satsang,
meeting saints and leading a life in a yagyamaya manner.

Kindest regards,
Suresh C Sharma
=================================================================
Dear Sadhak,
The situations you just described are excellent circumstances for
God realization-
1. Free from reponsibilies
2. Free from worldly attachments
3. Considering yr self total failure means no dependency on yr own
strength

So instead of putting yr self in Golden Cage(due to attachment to
satvik guna) you should completely surrender yr self to God and be
free(jeevanmukta)
In my opinion you should insist on Paramatma Prapti(God realization)
not on ritualistic sanyaas or good company etc.Do satsang,go and
spend time in ashram, live with realized souls, but always look
inside, and know that I am God's and only God is mine. Knowledge,
devotion and liberation all will come with this knowing only.

With lots of Love,
a sadhika
Sadhna Karigar
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sureshji,

Your predicament was summed up so well by a comment made by Jeshua
the
Nazarene, "a prophet is not without honor except in his own country
and in his own house". I just recently made a comment on send to
entire group at another time)
Your country is the World of the Spirit, I have gone through the very
things you have gone through believe you me, I too live in the World
of the Spirit, we dwell in the same land, not Geographically you
understand.
Did not Sri Ramakrishna Paramahams, say God is closer than your skin,
if the good Swami was correct, you do not have to go anywhere to find
'The Beloved', I sure you know 'He' dwells in your heart.
It took me years to come to terms with things like Christmas, I
saw/see it as a time of gluttony and excess, built on a fable,
borrowing from the Pagans,(no disrespect to the Pagans intended).
I had to detach or go mad, but also honor the good things that happen
,like decent organizations that give the poor and destitute a decent
feed at that time, and we by presents that can be distributed to the
poor.
My lesson in this life is to open my Heart, and not to Judge, I am
sure of this!
Of course the family know me as an oddball, but also they know me as
one without hate, one who will help when there is need.
I have been blessed with so much Divine Love, I have met so many,
many, Great Souls, what a Divine forum this is, is it not?
In passing I am retired but am a very busy person.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!Sureshji, I read your respectful responses to
sadhakas who attempted to answer your question on retirement and
sanyas. My experience tells me that if you have so many reasons to
retire and take sanyas, chances are it will not work for you,
particularly when these reasons are: you don't like situation and/or
behavior of people around you.It sounds like you may be forcing it
upon you(I may be wrong). I am not saying they(spouse/children) are
right in their own rights, but to think "they are wrong and
therefore, you have nothing to do with them" may be the the wrong
thinking as I see it. When one doesn't have any reasons, but only
happiness/love in whatever and wherever one is placed(not where one
places oneself), then, by all means, retirement and sanyas will work
better for one. We generally try to do or undo things to be happy
which, at best, works for short time and we are already looking for
something else to do or undo out of boredom.When we are already
happy and loving, then we do or undo things as if we are playing to
celebrate the life, because we are not looking to get anything which
will make us happy, we just are!I have learnt from life never to
possess another human being be that person your spouse, children,
friends, siblings, parents or whoever. Sometimes we possess by
making someone guilty or self pitying ourselves in front of them or
demands on them, or all such subtle tricks. One's sincerity and
honesty with oneself and above all love for truth will show the next
step. Namaskar
Pratap Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadak,Bagavan said, "Loka Sheman Vahamiyam". Means HE takes
care of the whole creation. So dont worry who will teach your
grandchildren. Your time is running out. Only you have to put your
effort which only will work out. Mostly seekers left homes and
stayed amidst nature to avoid social obligations such as marriages
etc. Even saints living with family were also remained detached and
so they were called excentric.This birth balance time can be
untilised purposefully in Sat Sangh, Bajans, Namasankeethan Etc.
Control all emotions, aviod being slave to toung (taste and talk),
see only God`s statue, walk only to temples, your free time spend in
meditation.

Jai Sri Krishna
baiya sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------

My respectable Sharma ji,

I am a 44 year old Police officer in Delhi Police and for at least
20 years of my life I had been privileged to attend the Satsangas of
Swami Ramsukhdasji alongwith reading of his books (particularly the
book "Geeta Probodhini", which influenced my life, greatly).
Sharmaji, for the last few years I have also been going through the
same social situations as has been described by you and the same
thoughts also come to my mind. I have tried my best to search for
the so called "serenity under a Banyan Tree" but found it no where.
My dear elder brother, we should not forget that we have some basic
needs in our life to be taken care of, so long as we are (rather we
have to) dragging the loathsome weight of this body and for that
very purpose we need society, which I donot think, is wrong. With
the increase of age, our medical needs also increase, which cannot
be avoided.

Now comes the burning question, then "Where to Go"? My dear
brother, with all my sincerety, honesty and experience ( whaterver I
have gained by the grace of my Gurudev) I very truly and whole-
heartedly request you to please take refuge in ATMA. This is the
only place I have found to be most secluded and Serene. When you
are established in your realself, ATMA and when you have made
Brahmakar Vritti, you will find real great bliss, satisfaction and
the most Serene Place in your life, no matter where you are sitting,
whether in a birthday party or marriage party etc. Sir, as and when
you try to run away from these places, I am sorry to say, you
unknowingly create another bindings of Raga and Dwesha, which simply
add another hurdle in your way to attain real and eternal tranqality
in your life which you can attain even while sitting in your office
or at home.

Gaining Brahmakar Vritti is neither easy nor difficult. All it
depends on our sincerity. Try this-- throw away all intelligence
you have gained throughout your life, feel like an innocent child
and surrender yourself to God. Cry and cry desperately for him like
an innocent stubborn child. Feel yourself like Arjuna and listen
Him preeching Geeta. (Geeta Probodhini is best) Believe me, He
will come to your rescue and make the way.

If ever in Rishikesh, I can suggest satsang opportunity.
Ram Ram

Raj Kumar

Dear Sharmaji,
I read with interest your post and reply by friends.You say your
family responsibilities are over. But from what you write about your
son,daughter and wife that you are deeply involved in their views and
way of life though they are adults.Your main problem is trying to
control their way of life to yours and just because they as adults
donot agree with your way of life, you tend to blame them and also
your way of bringing up. You think you failed somewhere. You are
absolutely wrong in your view.Your wife and children have been
magnanimous in not enforcing their view or way of life on you . You
want to go on world tour or Indian tour of theertha places, i am sure
your family will allow it. do that and you will understand what is
GEETHA OR DHARMA.
With kind regards.
captain Johann samuhanand

----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Bhaiyya Sharmaji ! Very good Jee !! Bhabhiji should not eat
Golgappes because you don't like Golgappes !! Excellent Jee! Wahe
Guru! She should become like a "Gandhari" – is it? If children get
happy by birthday gifts, you feel they are becoming greedy !
Superlative Jee !! Why will they learn that as they become happy by
taking, there is someone becoming happy by giving also ? You don't
like what your son is doing ( Cellphone/ TV addiction) , good –
understandable ! But then what is objection to you , if he does not
like your watching News on TV ? Whatever " I LIKE SHOULD HAPPEN" –
Is that what you are suggesting, My Dear Bhaiyya ?? What is wrong
with Bhabhiji and kids if they expect you to behave in accordance
with their wish, particularly when you yourself have same
attitude ?. Hence they are in complete tandem with you !! Bolo
Jee !! Boliye Sir !

Your complaint is that Mrs Sharma is a great supporter of Son.
Anything wrong there? Are you not a supporter of your son? Who
doesnot support Sons/Daughters? If she is supporting a wrong
conduct , according to you, then it is her dereliction of duties.
Why you should transfer yourself under a banyan tree? If your
nephews etc do not approve of your Gita ways of living, then you
should take sanyaas? Which way is this Bhaiyyaji? Bolo ! " GITA WAY
OF LIVING" !! Approval of nephews/nieces is necessary for you? They
told you honestly that they are too young. Remember your being at
that age!

"Rajasic/Tamasic Creepers "!! These are the words you used for God's
children !! Pray to night before the God and say sorry to God –
don't forget to do that !! On one hand, you have registered your
house in the name of my Bhabhiji ( What a great love and
affection) , on the other hand you cannot even tolerate a sight of
her peacefully taking bites of delicious golgappes- which kind of
SAMATA ( EQUANIMITY) is this? Is not clearly a love / mineness
hidden beneath the outer layer of hate? Former is RAAG as per Gita.
Latter is DVESHA as per Gita ! Under which banyan tree you will find
practical situations like this to become EQUANIMOUS?

She is working in a bank. She does not need your Retirement cheque.
OK ! Now don't leave the job. Don't make them happy. Say You are not
retiring, Jee ! BECOME " Viviktadeshasevitvam" ( referred by you)
while remaining at home only. Become also " Asaktaranbhishvangam
putra daar griha dishu" ( Referred in previous sloka of BG 13).
Start accumulating money EXCLUSIVELY FOR YOURSELF AND ONLY FOR
YOURSELF_ for next 4/5 years. Don't even give an air of your current
pay cheques. Talk sweetly ! Try to throw bitterness from your
conduct. Inside your heart, there should not be an anger in you for
them, nor an ego in you as to how they will manage, nor a worry in
you, nor an impetuosity in you to know their reactions. Nor should
there be any outer proclamation of revolutionary conduct by you.
NOTHING in front. Let them ignore you. Let them drive their own
lives. When they demand anything from you, then take a call. There
you should think- CAN I DO AND SHOULD I DO ?

Keep in touch Jee !

Namaste Jee
Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sharmaji Your problem is that you are too good a person but
you are taking care of your family in an obliging manner. Now
that the children have grown up and they have started reflecting
upon in their own way- you still desire an attention by them
towards you. You feel the family should circle around your wishes,
tantrums, and thoughts. Come what may- it will not happen. It is not
correct for you to so expect. Spiritualism arises from within-
Sharmaji ! It can not be inflicted by an injection in the
youngsters. Ladies across the globe are like that only. At least
yours is earning and then eating Pani puri. God may create
circumstances in which instead of pani puri ,the very you get
eaten. There is nothing unusual emanating out of your narration
which can drive you to take sanyaas . Dont give much attention to
them. Concentrate on yourself. All are good. All are of God only.
This world has been made in such a manner that it in the end imparts
sorrow only. Hence dont think of going anywhere merely because your
beloveds are not behaving as you like them to do. It is injustice.
Ignore them. Pay attention to your duties and not to the duties of
others.

Regards Bandook Singh
----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

My Dear Sharmaji ! Thanks for honest expressions. You indeed have a
pure heart. But Facts as they appear to me are that ONLY you are at
fault- I seek your forgiveness. That every soul is self
centered /selfish is not something which is a new revelation. That
nobody except Paramatma is you/yours/for you is crystal clear to
you, me and all. PROBLEM WITH ALL OF US IS THAT WE KNOW BUT WE DON'T
ACCEPT TILL WE GET SHOCKS ! We know that this body, world, kith and
kin are not ours but still we complain that they don't listen to
words of wisdom. Now what is special about it? It is so ab initio.
But going under some banyan tree is not the answer to your emotional
confusions and complaints. Bitterness, complaint,
frustration,dejection,helplessness, rejection of present status,
expectations of a better conduct from your beloveds, feeling of self
worthlessness , likings , dislikings, cold anger, desire, all of
them are existing inside you and you only. Will your mind not emit
those emotions under a banyan tree? Will the memories not haunt you
there? Believe me – they will !

Now what to do ? Consider if you are so insistent on the following.
1. Don't leave the job 2. Take a small house nearby your existing
house on rent and shift there- all alone.3. Stop spending a penny on
any one except on yourself. 4. If kith and kin come to you, tell
them with folded hands --, " Thanks. Now I shall concentrate on
myself.I have a lot to do for myself. Please don't worry about me. I
shall take care of myself. Please be happy. God Bless you, all".
Then start your sadhana as a " Bhakti Yogi". ( My earlier suggestion
was reg Karma Yoga).

Start concentrating on "self" . Start eliminating- as Shashikalaji
told you- " Raag " ( Likings) and "Dvesha" ( Dislikings) from your
conduct. Your real enemies are Raag and Dvesha. Try to put "
Equanimity" in your conduct. What is the problem to you if Mrs
Sharma likes "golgappes" ? According to you she should eat only what
you want her to eat – Is it? This is example of Raag/Dvesha ! You
have to conquer this. No you cant make youngsters behave as you want
them to behave. YOU CANNOT ! Can you control your own mind and body?
No !

You need a lot to do with your own reference!

Believe in what Swamiji says in Sadhak Sanjeevani or Sadhan Sudha
Sindhu. Believe that nothing is yours. Believe that " I am of God
and ONLY God is mine." Never give up your job – else there is a
danger that you shall lose both ends. " DUVIDHA MAIN DONO GAYE ,
MAYA MILI NA RAAM " ( In dilemma, I lost both. World as well as
God) ! Start implementing Swamiji's teachings. You have reached to
present state of " Vairagya" ( Dispassion) only because you served
in the past your wife and children. SERVICE DESTROYS MINENESS- it is
a principle given for benefit of entire humanity by Swamiji
Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. Live such dozens and dozens of laws/principles
stated by Taat Shree in His books/discourses/messages etc.
Concentrate more on that !!

There are other methods also. Keep writing/reading. You are in a
right, divine forum.

Your kith and kin shall ignore you only so long as you consider them
to be "yours". The moment you really believe that they are not
yours, they will become "Godly" for you ! Try this !! All dirt is
there in "mineness" only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas NB

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Respected All,

I am greatful for the guidance.

Dear Sadhna Karigar ji, very sensible indeed. My problem is that I am
a total failure or misfit in the society. I do not attend the
marriage parties where lot of noisy filmy songs and DJ dances etc.
make me sick even if I keep safe distance. I do not attend birthday
parties because the children celebrating the birthdays are more
interested in the gifts they get "we the gift-givers turn
them into greedy beings. I do not approve of my only son's obsession
with learning modern filmy dance and his addition to cell phone and
TV (he does not like even my watching the news channel) " I am a
total failure as a father for no fault of mine. I cannot take my
wife for outings because she is fond of eating "golgappe" etc and
above all she is a great supporter of her son's activities basically
completely spoiling him from spiritual point of view and making him
into a socially clever fellow. My daughter is in the job and
interested in getting materialistically rich just like any other
young lady. My nephews and niece do not approve of my Gita's way of
life, they say they are too young for these boring things. No one in
my family circle is interested in Swamiji's literature, but in Shani
Mandir and tantrik puja etc. I have realized to the core of my
heart that I cannot change or influence anyone in my family for their
real betterment. Wife and son are feeling happy at my idea of
premature retirement as they will get a few more lakhs of rupees.
Wife works in a bank. I am not finding fault with anyone, but that
is their "prarabdha". Should I continue to be in the family to
nourish the "rajsik and tamsik" creepers (though all this
is "vasudevam sarvamiti")? It would be a pleasure should I
become manure for any "satvik" plant.

Gita also teaches - Viviktadeshsevitvam, aratirjansansadi (dwelling
in a secluded place and lack of desire to be in the crowd) supports
my decision to seek sanyas. Though I want to be in the company of
the saints "bodhyantah parasparam".

Dear Prem Khullar ji, while I agree with you fully, and by seeking
retirement and entering into the Sanyas, I am sure I can better
serve God's needy creatures with more freedom and time. I have been
studying and conserving birds and their habitats in Haryana since
1976 ˜sarvabhoot hite ratah".

Dear N K Srinivasan ji, nice suggestion. I want to have regular and
continuous ˜darshanâ" of saints ˜gyan vigyan astikyam"

Shashikala bahan, I am a complete failure in family life and will be
a big failure if I persist in my meaningless social efforts. I am
reading the scriptures in general and Sadhak Sanjivani / Sadhak
Sudha Sindhu in particular. Your arguments are faultless, yet I want
to run away from the consumerist society and want to lead a perfect
peaceful natural life under some banyan tree in an ashram. Your
˜bhabhi" is interested in money and will be happy to get my post-
retirement cash and monthly pension; I have already registered the
house in her name. For myself, I do not need much and out of my Rs
15000 plus monthly pension, I just need one fifth of it at the most.
I do not think in this modern society my family members, present
and/or would be, will be interested in a ˜yagyaacharatah karma" Let
them be in their fool's paradise (if I can use the term of Henry
David Thoreau).

Dear Mahalaksmi Dasi ji, I appreciate your optimism. But I am a sort
of "sarvaarambh prityagi".

Dear Hari Shanker Deo, I am seeking company of spiritual people and
something within me says "get out of this dirty consumerist social
life".

Dear Vineet Sarvottam ji, Is there some Ashram in Churu also? Yes,
you are right. I recall Kabir's vani ˜rahna nahi, desh begana hai"

Dear Vyas ji, I am indeed indebted to you for detailed guidance,
practical and yet spiritual.

Still, I am a little confused.

Kind regards,
Suresh C Sharma

----------------------------------------------------------
Sir,
You must develop faith on our scriptures and establish firm
relationship with Gita itself can give you guidance on where to go,
what to do etc. Me too is 53 by age but I never feel my age because
I am engaged in service. Never worry about future or my past. We
must live in present. We are never free from responsibilities. Our
main duty is to know and serve. The more we know the more we serve.
Offer our service to the Lord while doing and we must leave it. Take
up the next till the Central Government terms end. We never end our
karma till the time of our departure from here. So that do not think
about a retirement from central government job. Still you can get
engaged in Gita service and the service with the Lord if you change
your attitude, not your situation. You have no control over the
situation only control is to develop over your mind.
Love, krishna das.

----------------------------------------------------------

If at some point in time when you are closer to a decision, you can
help us to help the needy children for their education, health and
mind.

Padmanabhan Sundaram
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Dear Sadhak,
Swamiji Ramsukhdasji, never encouraged such things as like taking
early retirement , he never asked anyone to leave the job and take
sanyaas (as far as I understand his teachings.)
yr desire could be called a Satvik desire, but no matter what desire
leads to sufferings. So Swamiji says-donot even desire for
liberation/mukti.
Only desire for God is Worth desiring.Have only one desire-
Krishna/God and He will show you the path to reach Him.

Yogusth kuru karmani(Do yr karma while established in Yoga)
Working or retired doesnot obstruct yr path for self
enlightenment.Start yr spiritual journey RIGHT NOW, at this very
moment, wherever you are.Donot make it a future goal.

Nasto Vidhyate Bhao, Nabhao vidhyate satah (Gita 2:16)
The unreal has no existence and the real has no cessation...
So nomatter where you are the Real is with you every moment and the
unreal is leaving you every moment.

Detachment from the unreal is sanyaas, and knowing the difference
between what is real and what is unreal is Knowledge (Gita Ch 13 &
14)

Accepting everything as God's is Bhakti (Vasudev Sarvam)

Now tell me to follow any of these paths-karma yoga, gyaan yoga or
bhakti yoga, where do you need to go ?
Nowhere/anywhere/everywhere ?

Kasturi Kundal basi mrig dhundhe van mahi---(the aroma is coming out
from deer's own naval but he is running in the forest to find the
source/ Krishna/God is sitting right in our heart, but we are trying
to find Him outside)

with lots of Love,
a sadhika
Sadhna Karigar
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Suresh Sharma ji,

WHERE TO GO ? WHERE CAN YOU GO ? NO WHERE . EVERY THING IS HERE . I
was an air force officer for 22 years. I retired 27 years back . I
am here running a 50 bed charitable hospital and various programs.
READ GITA , FOLLOW IT AND DO NOT BOTHER ABOUT THIS LIFE AND DEATH '
CHAKKAR'. It will be what ever it may be or whatever it has to be .

SERVE THE WORLD TO THE HILT - CEASELESSLY ,UNENDLESSLY AND FOR EVER.
LOVE

PREM KHULLAR
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sharmaji,
After retirement,I would suggest that you visit several pilgrim
centres and sacred temples,like a Parivrajika, with a few items with
you.Asmall suitcase and a bag.By such visits, your mind will be
purified and also you will learn more about our poeple ,their forms
of devotion and thier simple,humble ways.The railway tickets are
quite low and you need not sppend much.After say two or three years
of religious wandering or pilgrimages, you can select a place or
ashram or suitable palce to stay...This I learnt after my own
wanderings after the age of sixty.You are much younger and should be
easy for you.You will learn more about Bharat,our motherland after
that.
Regards,
In Shirdi Sai Smaran,
N K Srinivasan
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

No Bhaiyya Sharmaji. This "more or less over" with reference
to "duties" of marital life is not acceptable. Nor did I like your
last words - "where to go" !!

But your gesture/sentiment/approach is laudable- no questions about
the same!

WHERE TO GO ? - No where Dear. Remain where ever you are. Start now
a new life with no outer change. Concentrate on removing "Raag" (
Likings) and "Dvesha" (Dislikings) from your mind / intellect/
thoughts /psyche /person ! They are roots of your worldly stays of
past, present and future!
Read Scriptures/ Swamiji in spare time. Think about the soul, your
role in this Divine Lila !

By the way who are you to decide whether you should work or not? Did
you check up with Bhabhiji ( Mrs Sharma) ? Do as she says. No
arguments on this.

Have you planned adequately for your old age ? Who will instil God
in grand children? Who will guide them to righteousness? Who will
create cultural base for them and for the family ? Who will set
examples of selfless conduct? Who will make them better humans? Only
grand parents can do that- not the parents!

No Running away Bhaiyya! Stay put !! There are lot of things to do !
We will discuss if you actively participate !

Ever thought what should be your goal for balance life? It should
be " O God- I should not be coming back again in this world in any
type of body- unless you sponsor me as your representative for your
work. I should be free forever from this circle of birth and death".
Think on these lines. Get rid of all worldly
attachments/connections/mineness by continuously and selflessly
serving all people around you with all the things you have - without
expecting anything from them in return In dreams even do not
visualise a situation where you get dependent over any worldly
body/thing. You get retired without actually retiring merely by
relinquishing dependence over the same ! That is Swamiji
Ramsukhdasji Maharaj !!

Get free! Feel free ! Dream Free ! Seek freedom ! Remaining where
ever you are ! There is no need to go anywhere ! Make your home
itself a temple. Love all . See God in all. Don't establish
any "new" connection/relationship/attachment with any body/thing-
for getting anything worldly out of them. Concentrate on self and on
conscience.

KABIRA KHADA BAJAAR MAIN SABKI MAANGE KHAIR !

NA KAHOO SE DOSTI NA KAHOO SE VAIR !!

Says Saint Kabir - I am standing in this market (worldly life)
wishing good for all and sundry. I have neither any friends (
likings- Raag) nor any enemies (dislikings- Dvesha) !

That is real sanyaas ! My Dear Brother ! That is real retirement !
Not leaving or not leaving the Government Service !!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

----------------------------------------------------------
My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm......responsibilities have
kept me so busy that I have neglected this beautiful forum, sadly.
In regard to this sacred question....what to do when one is
encountering the need to absorb oneself in spiritual practices for
oneself and others. I know that this is not exactly how the
question was worded, but truly, it is what I heard....because you
have come to the point of saying, "Where do I go from here".....
indeed, age is not truly the criterion for one being ready to absorb
oneself in full devotion.....it is a point where one finally
accepts, "I have no business in this world save and except to live
for bhajan, for glorifying the lord, for providing knowledge of Gita
to others."

I have accepted Los Angeles as my place to execute this
activity.....it is where the Lord has put me. Pray for guidance,
and it will come....Los Angeles has many, many groups of sadhaks, as
well as a very high level of vegetarian communities, vegan, raw,
east Indian, etc......and there are so so many people to give some
time and energy to as far as speaking on Bhagavat dharma. But than,
almost any city in the world these days, is needing Hari Katha to
purify the atmosphere.
respectfully,
Mahalaksmi Dasi
----------------------------------------------------------

Stay where you are. Seek a genuine Guru/Guru within. He will lead
you towards the right path. Meditate and seek the company of
spiritual people.
Hari Shanker Deo
----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Shri Sureshji, This is the same question that I had asked Swamiji
fourteen years back, while considering retirement - (should I go to
Rushikul, or Churu, or Rishikesh, or Gorakhpur), then his reply is
something that is useful to you - "Brother, wherever you are, remain
there as is, always "longing and desiring", then your work will be
done. Because that Paramatma which you think about attaining in
Gorakhpur, or Rishikesh etc. that very same Paramatma wholly and
entirely is at this very moment close to you, now and at all
times. What more, you yourself are wise and patient, but when it
comes to relationship with Paramatma, the impatience (that intense
longing) works ! Very well!

Vineet Sarvottam

----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Dear Shri Sharmaji

At the outset welcome! Great things in life don't wait for any
retirement. No outside activity can accelerate your turning towards
the ultimate. If your family has slightest of the need for your
continuing doing the Govt Job - Please unhesitantly continue doing
that. Swamiji always advocated " 24 x 7" work. Consider after having
fulfilled your responsibilities at this age of 53 ( I am also 53 and
have done all that is necessary for my family responsibilities,
married both daughters, a son and another son is ready for marriage,
all well settled- only difference is I am employed in private
sector) as to whether whatever you earn honourably and justfully out
of your employment- you should use them for welfare and benefit of
1. Those for whom you still have mineness/attachment (including your
body)- with a special sentiment always awakened in you inside that "
they are not you/yours/for you" 2 Those for whom you have no
mineness/attachment.

That is one way you can plan. Check up with your better half if she
wants you to continue working. If she says even "may be" or "as you
think fit" - work! Work so that you may never seek economic
dependence upon anyone for rest of your life. Work so that you may
be of help to category 2 people ( stated in preceding paragraph)!
Work in government without accepting anything extra. Live there like
a lotus in water. You can. You should. Work so that you may see God
whereever you get engaged in.

Ensure that today you don't need anybody for anything pertaining to
your balance stay in this world. If you feel some are dependent upon
you( say wife)- serve them with double intensity and speed.

But keep a thought burning inside you - "I am of God, Only God is
mine, nothing else is mine" . Don't expect anything from anybody-
even from God. Keep utilising whatever you have for benefit and
welfare of whoever comes in touch with you - if you can and if you
should.

All extra time in your life should be utilised in reading Swamiji's
books, Gita, Ramayana, listening to Swamiji's pravachans, singing
bhajans, doing keertans and remaining in good company always.

This is one way. Another totally different way - next time.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------
Great idea!!!!!
I have been doing the same because I have also been influenced very
deeply by the books
of Swami Ramsukhdasji Maharaj. We might be able to do share some
thoughts on some projects

Satya Kalra

----------------------------------------------------------
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