Wednesday, September 29, 2010

[gita-talk] Re: The Bhagavad Gita Daily - 5-4


|| Shree Hari  ||

Ram Ram

Gita 5-4

Saankyayogau prthagbaalaah pravadanti na panditaah  |

ekamapyaasthitah samyagubhayorvindate phalam    ||   4 ||   

It is the ignorant not the wise who speak of Sankhyayoga (Discipline of Knowledge or renunciation) and Karmayoga (Discipline of Action) yielding different results; because one who is well established in either one, gets the fruit of both (God realization). 4


In Lord's opinion, Jnanayoga and Karmayoga are the two disciplines of this world (Gita 3-3) and the result of both is the same. At the end, both equally liberate one from the world and then one realizes the true self. Therefore, both are independent disciplines for liberation.  

From "Gita Prabodhani" in HIndi by Swami Ramsukhdasji.


Shree Hari  Ram Ram


PLEASE LISTEN TO GITA MADHURYA  AUDIO IN ENGLISH OF CHAPTER 5 AVAILABLE for FREE.   By listening several times, it will become very simple to understand the GITA.  Click link -


Let us know how you liked it.  Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram



Gita Prabodhani  in Hindi

Bhagavad Gita Recitation  -  B.R. Soni  (melodious)  
Gita Madhurya   books on tape in ENGLISH (NEW)
Five Gita Verses for Daily Recital   (You Tube)
Series of Gita Lectures by Swamiji  
Bhagavad Gita AARTI   (You Tube)


Gita Discussion - Post message:

Recent Activity:
All past 3650+ messages are accessible and searchable at

24,500+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at


[gita-talk] Re: India, Can there be Hope and Opportunity to Dream for All ? Insights - Gita !


Dear friends,

Sub:Tryest with Destiny

When I passed out my BE with gold medal  in 1973 ,I was given two books and a testament.Somewhere in them,it was mentioned  Ć¢€œTryest With DestinyĆ¢€ during independence day.In 2009,after 36 years,I feel that it is not " Tryest With Destiny" but "Tryest With Family Rule".Family rule at all levels i.e.from village to nation.This is the Institutional Culture that INDIA  has invented after Independence.Well,this may not be good for democratic INDIA whose constitution promises each citizen an opportunity "to dream".

Can the CHILDREN of half naked coolies,the harijans,the "adivasies" (backward people) in the remote villages afford "to dream"?  Is there a "HOPE" for them?  What is the common bondage for the citizens of INDIA?  Is just a culture dominated by a few?  or what?

Without addressing this issue properly,INDIA travelled for 62 years with some pockets of good growth and a vast underdevelopment and undevelopment resulting in social turbulences and large scale violence we are witnessing today.

Can INDIA Inc.  address this issue wholeheartedly to avoid immediate violence and probable future worst bloodshed.



C.Venkataramanaiah BE


Human mind is programmed. It thrives on the comfort of complaining, blaming, feeling guilty. The dropping 
of this comfort is spirituality.Now whatever you do is complete, it affects the entire Universe. Spirituality does not demand that others should do the right things. We are under the illusion as if there is disorder and we are to create order. 
The System of the Universe is movement from order to order. Seeing this, action has a different meaning. You begin to participate in the scheme of the Universe instead of complaining, blaming, feeling guilty. 
Mystery starts unfolding.
Y V Chawla
Dear Sadhakas,

Hare krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka regarding Hope.
There is Hope for everyone. The very purpose of this birth is for God realization but unfortunately we spend very little time in that pursuit because of our attachment to Materialism.
Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,
" Trividham narakasyedam,
Dwaram nasanam atmanah,
Kamah krodhas tatha lobhah,
Tasmad etat trayam tyajet. "
(Gitaji 16, 21)
Which means,
'There are three gates leading to hell , lust, anger and greed. We should give them up since they lead to the degradation of the soul. '
Once we learn to see the Lord in everyone and everyone in the Lord, then we treat everybody with love and respect. Then there will not be any violence.
Pure devotional service with love towards everyone is the essence of Bhagavad Gita.
Once we learn to treat fellow human beings as our brothers and sisters, then there will be peace, hope and opportunity for everyone.
Let us get into devotional service, advance spiritually.
Let us chant the Holy Names, Be Happy and Peaceful.
Thank You.
Hare Krishna.
Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D


Dear Sadaks,
Children in Africa and some places across Globe are worst compared to Indian children. Within India children in Bihar are worst than children elsewhere. But children in some countries are enjoying excellent facilities, comforts and has full freedom even to the extent of parents non interference. All is theory of Karma. A dog can enjoy total comforts and  vehicle comfort where as street dog suffers in pain and hunger. But all these everyone knows and your bringing importance does not change. Reason: How many of us understand this sufferings in our mind and take decision to become like Buddha seeking truth? Not one person among millions who know this. NOT EVEN ME. One who after seeing could get at least fed up and looses all desires on earth alone gets salvation says Geetha.


This is the thing that has been uppermost in the minds of all educated Indians. Freedom is only for the VIPs, their chamchas and families to loot the country. Latest example: the Commonwealth Games. Where the culture of dynastic rule and sycophancy prevails, equal opportunity is a myth. That is why 1/3rd. of the country is under armed revolt. The police are perceived as the private armies of the mafias who rule us. Of course the Gita too mentions such a situation in which persons of insatiable greed are mentioned as getting short shrift sooner than later.                              Hari Shanker Deo


Vasudeva Sarvam

kyaa aapka abhipraay Gitaki sikhaavaniyon per "nukaad naatak" se hai? 


Recent Activity:
All past 3650+ messages are accessible and searchable at

24,500+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at


Tuesday, September 28, 2010

[gita-talk] Re: Why at all Salvation is Needed?


Dear ALL,

The message conveys Salvation is the ultimate aim of human life and the methods to be adopted. Various religions too stress on this aspect.

Mostly person fail to concentrate on the methodology to achieve salvation. To my mind the main problem is that nobody is aware as to WHY AT ALL SALVATION IS NEEDED  ???

Unless we are sure that we would be better off than what we are in this material life, it becomes difficult to concentrate and strive for Salvation!!

Please let me clearly tell me: What good is to have SALVATION to begin with??!!  If the answer suits me then, I would fight tooth and nail to get Salvation and help others as well!

(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)


To be born as human beings, the rarest of the rare life forms, for which even the Gods hanker for, is for a purpose. Only human beings have the capacity of discrimination, the capacity to know the right from the wrong. One is born as a human after 84 lakh births in different life forms. Humans are the highest life form. We are uniquely placed to leave this endless cycle of birth and death and merge our Soul or Atma with the Parmatma or God. That is called liberation or salvation or moksha. We go through life without thinking about what we are, why we were born and what happens after our death. During our existence, we are so enamoured of the sense objects that even at the time of death, we still have some unfulfilled desires. It is these desires which bring us back to this world again and again. So to attain liberation or moksha, we should do sewa or selfless service, satsang, keep the company of holy men, sadhna or spiritual practices and most important dhyan or meditation preferably under the guidance of a God realised Guru, who has done tapas and has attained enlightenment.                                                 

Hari Shanker Deo


Dear Sadaks,
WHY AT ALL SALVATION NEEDED is a question of NO importance to people needing Salvation. He does not want salvation, better keep quiet and do your Sadana/Namasankreethana. For People needing Salvation is dream for them and one questions it is totally ignorant of salvation said Sri Ramakriashna Parama Hamsa. If one tries and gains on knowledge about salvation and he thinks salvation is definitely needed. Strictly I do not know the cause and effect of Salvation, because it is not governed by my efforts, as said in Geetha. Rightly said by a sadak, (There is  no meaning of the Salvation/Mukti for the realized ones. ShankaraaCharyaJI says "SADAA ME SAMATVAM NA MUKTIR NA BANDHA CHIDAANANDARUPO SHIVOHAM SHIVOHAM" (AatmanaasTakam),)). Please note the words there "for the realized ones". Realized one already attained salvation or set above. You have done Ph.D, you will certainly say I do not need Diploma certificate.Sri Sushil Jain, " It is a grand play, a game of life.........need for salvation is part of that game.".... It is not game. It is very hard Task says Prahalad.

Dear All,

Salvation is needed, only when you consider yourself to be under bondage of any ideology, state, situation, person or words or image. Declare your freedom, believe and act as a salvaged spirit and you are salvaged. 
Salvation, freedom and bondage are the creation of the linguistic jargon, mind and ego.
Anil Mukhi


complete untouchability with senses and worldly objects is "salvation" It is impossible without abondoning is complete surrendering to GOD without any prayer .

n. panda


Salvation is needed to dis-engage yourself from routine maladies of life and achieve a status of spiritual health that is synchronous with that of the ultimate.



Shree Hari  Ram Ram

Why at all Salvation is Needed? 

Because nothing else will be satisfying in the end.  Everything will slip through your fingers, like water when you try to cup  it in the palms of your hands.  The imperishable (atma) can never be satisfied by the perishable (world).  Swamiji has emphasized this often.   For "atma" to want "kalyan" is an "essential need" (aavashyakta).  Meera Das,  Ram Ram 


Hari SharaNam,

First of all, I really appreciate this question which is very simple in language but very fundamental for the human beings. Unless this is understood, the purpose of the human beings may not be solved.

I see many responses from many senior Saadhaks. Some of them , instead of answering the "Why" they have responded for "How to.." . I do not understand why Respected Nag NarayanJi is seeing acollision here. In fact, the need is only for theSalvation. It is different thing that the "need" loses its valuein the higher stages of the paths but we must not underestimate the importance of this need. This is not a created need. It is a natural need/tendency of the soul who is trying to be in its own true nature/SWAROOP from eternity and fortunately he has received the human body. Dear Nag NarayanJi, forgive me, I disagree with your interpretation of "Salvation" that could be the reason you might be seeing a collision. But, if you mean "Salvation" different from Freedom/MUKTI/MOKSHA/YOG/...., you might be right. In my understanding, the "Salvation" means "Freedom/MUKTI/MOKSHA/YOG/...". There is  no meaning of the Salvation/Mukti for the realized ones. ShankaraaCharyaJI says "SADAA ME SAMATVAM NA MUKTIR NA BANDHA CHIDAANANDARUPO SHIVOHAM SHIVOHAM" (AatmanaasTakam),
So what is Salvation and why is it needed at all?

Tobe in brief, if weobserve/analyze, every being is always trying to be comfortable/peaceful/relaxed/happy/.. (in the domain defined/assumed/accepted by his own nature) by removing the obstacles/worries/sorrows/.. .  Irrespective of the efforts, the sorrowsrecur. The "Removal of the recurrence of the sorrows for always"is generally termed as Salvation /Freedom/ Mukti /MOKSHA etc. ShakaraacharyJi defines the MOKSHA as "the complete destruction of the cause (i.e. VAASANAA/attachment/affinity) of the recurrence of the sorrows" (VAASANAAPRAKSHAYO MOKSHA -Vivek ChuNamaNi: 318). We should note here that  removal of the cause/KAARANA is the key not stopping thefunctionality of the instrument/KARANA (ie.. mind, body,..). The instrument must be used for its defined purpose.

Bhagavaan Shri Krishna calls it (i.e. Removal of the recurrence of the sorrows for always)as "Yoga" ( DUKHASANYOG VIYOGAM YOGSANGYITAM - GitaJi 6/23) which is synonym of its another definition (SAMATVAM YOG UCHYATE - GitaJi 2/48). People who attained this (i.e. Yoga) says "Nothing more is left to be attained and no unhappiness how so ever big can disturb any more".

Thoughthe meaning of the Salvation itself clarifies its need; but just to mention, Bhagavaan Shri Krishna also suggests/reminds that it must be attained (SA NISCHAYEN YOKTAVYO ; GitaJi -6/23) before losing this humanbody (PRAAK SHAREER VIMOKSHANAAT -GitaJi 5/23). Not only God, but all the Scriptures, Saints and the realized ones encourage us to attain the same.

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey


The bigger picture is...........
It is a grand play, a game of life.........need for salvation is part of that game.....
Sushil Jain


Why at all Salvation is Needed?

Again, I see a head-on collision between two opposite notions here - salvation and need. Salvation is is universally integral state wherein no variance can have any acknowledgeable role or appearacnce as everything is blended into THE ONE that IS. Need is something that keeps us anchored to our existential craves and pouring in differential perception of the world around as well as the individual within. Salvation is something wherein all the needs are mitigated at their roots. While need keeps even "the salvation" as a distant mirage in our imagination as a wishful thinking. 

Therefore, "need for salvation" is a self-contradictory notion in itself. 

As I see, what is needed is the relief from sorrows and pain. Any being in this universe acknowledges it positively. Ask anyone, "why are you doing anything?". The answer is almost always "I want to be happy!". The very notion of happiness is a mirrored invertion of the misery felt within. It has a meaning only as far as the miseries stay within. Once the misery is purged from within, notion of the associated happiness is also gone. 

But often, we misguide ourselves to turn the very notion of happiness into misery! In the absence of misery we cannot feel the happiness. Then we knowingly or unknowingly fall into the existential pith in serach of miseries so that we can escavate the notion of happiness again and again to expeirnece that feeling of relief. Thus we end up recycling our very existence in cycles of sorrow and happiness. Salvation is just a place-holder to straighten our approach to our miseries to reduce them and terminate them eventually in a fool-proof way ... to break the cycle in other words. 

Therefore, what is NEEDED is RELIEF FROM MISERIES ... mitigation of our cyclic tendencies stretched between the polarities of our notions. 


Naga Narayana.


Vasudeva SarvamFriend, i f you want to desperately attain your salvation, then defintely make the effort, however, if you are satisfied by your current state, then don't do anything. On it's own all with take place. Not by other's saying (Param Shraddhey Swamiji if you consider other), don't do anything. He who cannot here the Ishvar within, how will he ever listen to someone else.

So be it,




Pranams and Dandavats to all prabhujis and matajis
This is a very interesting opportunity to go deeper in the real meaning of the word `knowledge`.
Whithout sufficient knowledge one is not able to quite down the mind. (SEE THE CHAPTER 4 OF THE BHAGAVAD GITA)
Controling the senses requires a certain amount of energy and most of it comes from WISDOM. Without attaining wisdom one cannot see himself and do the necessary adjustments to avoid getting lost. To acquire suficient knowledge it takes time. Prasadam is a very nice weapon to reach knowledge cause cit (chit) is in it. Cit (Chit) is what we have lost from time immemorial.
Only thru this third vision (understanding) one will be able to get in touch with himself.
Once one is able to perform this communication with his own self then he will realize more clearly what is good or bad for himself.
Moksha  literally means "release". Release from Tama-guna, release from bondage. According to  ADVAITA VEDANTA,  the attainment of liberation is accompanied by the individual soul's (Atman) realization, by means of self-knowledge. Some amount of study is advisable.
There is no sin in being a clown or a fool if this condition can lead us to wisdom realization. That`s what human form of life is made for, to get in touch with Satya guna and get rid of Tama Gunaa.
Your servant,
Rama Shakti dd

Shree Hari-


It is the ability to look beyond the face appearance of existence, there will be some times in your life when you hear of things, read, see on TV etc. that has/will  ring a little bell in your mind, something that does not add up to excepted reality.

A fully documented account of a brain dead woman who recollected her operation in detail.

A women who remembered a past life, and moments of that life with clarity, the amazing thing, her eldest son in that past life was still alive as an old man, and he confirmed for instance how he had caught a hare in the snare rather than a rabbit, and how excited he and his mom were over the fact that this larger creature could feed them better, (They were dirt poor). This man who was a Christian brushed aside dogma , and was convinced  that she was his mother reincarnated.

A woman who was recorded as the longest surviving person who had died and was brought back 47 minutes it's on record her name is Carmel Bell, worth a look.

The experience of Fr. Bede Griffiths as explained by him:

I would like to share with you something of my advaitic experience...I was overwhelmed and deluged with love. The feminine in me opened up and a whole new vision opened. I saw love as the basic principle of the whole universe. I saw God in the earth, in trees, in mountains. It led me to the conviction that there is no absolute good or evil in this world. We have to let go of all concepts which divide the world into good and evil, right and wrong, and begin to see the complimentarity of opposites which Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa called the coincidentia oppositorum, the "coincidence of opposites."

A simple line of Vasishtha: Ch. 2: 329 The illusion of the world is produced in every mind differently and severally.

All this just scratches the surface, one can put on ones blinkers cover the ears and hope these paradoxes go away, or one could want to learn the truth of reality!
Then one will start to unfold the purpose and reality of what one is all about, one will find great books great sages, saints, and you will become amazed as your eyes start to open!

Om ... Shant ...

Desire is the cause for development of karmic loads.   Desires can be stopped by bringing the mind to zero.  This can be achieved thru meditation.   Mind got the nasty habit of pushing u to sadness and happiness and vice-versa immediately.  Once this is achieved salvation is within reach.  All human beings at some births strive to rid off from this chain of birth and death.  This is the ultimate goal of our birth.
with namaskarams

Dear Sadaks,
Once we know that there is better job or better place to live or better comfortable life than the present, or better ways to become rich and the famous, we choose our likes. But the the choice does not end there. Next world number 1 rich man or worlds number one famous etc. Here also it does not end. Next to see places on planets Etc. By this time his age ends and probably born as poorest in a slum. All by his discrimination faculty. The same faculty some like Buddha, Christ, Saint Ramana or Ramakrishna, so many used it towards the thought what is beyond life and death. While doing so, their total interests were diverted away from world and they were like beggar or like mad man to the world. But they got the answer that what they see or know is nothing at all and their real place of life is on heaven is the answer came to them. Presume an ant in room, knows how much and that much alone we (Most modern fully educated) know. Once that knowledge on reality is known, he abandons everything on earth and seeks god.  
Here comes the role of Guru or GOVIND to a seeker. Seeker of eternal bliss NOT the seeker of world interests.


Mr Kuldip Kumar Kaul has asked the very basic question: why should I endeavour to seel Salvation unless I know for sure that is the best thing to achieve?
All persons do not get maximum pleasure by getting the same thing: some like money more than freedom or self- respect, some people like sweet food, some other like bitter/ sour/ hot food. Some peole like nature, some like books to read. Some like to become sportstar, some others film stars, some like to be poiliticians, some like to be scientists. These differences arise due to combinations of three Gunas of various degrees and proportions. Each person does and like things that the inherent gunas force them do in the face of emerging external environment. And, the path of doing and liking things get determined by the consequences of actions taken in preceeding periods and the gunas.  There is no choice. Similarly, it is observed that very few people like to achieve salvation and the rare few are forced by the gunas and cirmstances to seriously emndeavour to get Salvation and almost no one really achieves Salvation. So that is it. Whether there is a justification for pursuing Salvation or not, it does not matter: most people will never thing ogf seriously try for Salvation because their gunas and circumstances will not permit them to think of Salvation as something more desirable to achieve than any thing else.
So, one need not worry about trying to get to understand why Salvation is the greatest thing in human life to achieve. Rather, one can be easily convinced that to try to get Salvation, a person will have to forgo all the beautiful and enjoyable things in the World.So salvation is as good as denying all other things in life.
Yet, the rare few try to get Salvation and make considerable progress along the path to Salvation weven if they do not achieve salvation. These people obviously get something by doing so and are happy. They maybe exceptions in society and appear abnormal to others. But still they try for Salvation and are happy with that goal.
They say that one can enjoy all the pleasures of material life without Salvation but has to simultaneously bear the pains  and sufferings that human body and mind attracts in the pursuit of all material pleasures. They say that with sufficient progress towards Salvation or achieving Salvation one enjoys all the material comforts and pleasures of material existence without having to pursue these worldly benefits as the benefits flow unto them and they enjoy the same without any associated sufferring/ pain due to disappointment or frustration. Which is logically better, any one can judge. But it is not for everyone to try for Salvation.
Basudeb Sen


namasthe all, This is my humble opinion.
When you say 'salvation' ...we need toknow what you feel is the definition of 'salvation' from your perspective ? When I saw the meaning of 'salvaton' in are the coupel of meanings as a 'noun'
------ - - -
the act of preserving or the state of being preserved from harm  or  a person or thing that is the means of preserving from harm   or Christianity  deliverance by redemption from the power of sin and from the penalties ensuing from it   or  Christian Science  the realization that Life, Truth, and Love are supreme and that they can destroy such illusions as sin, death, etc 
Base don my humble opinion..this is what I feel.
Being in this world and going through life..we face many situations in life..sometimes we feel very much hurt in our hearts,sad,worried and also at the same time..we come accross situations in life which are overwhelming feelings,excitedness,happiness,peace ,joy etc.
But the life's happenings..many things are not in our control and we come sin the sitaution where we are in a situation that we can only accept whatever that is happening. Yes, ofcourse..sometime , we also feel that we are in control when the things are happening according to what we thought should happen. (In the broader sense, nothing is in our control at all.).
So, sometimes, if things do not happen what we wanted..we feel worried/sad etc. ..that is ussually when we start thinking about meaning of life..why is this happening ? what is the cause behind this.. ?? why is it not in my control etc etc..that is the inquisitiveness of the mind. but when we talk about salvation..people talk about not getting hurt or living in bliss all the time etc etc..Actually we cannot change the situation at all..we can only change our attitude towarsd any situation..and that attitude comes from out mind-set..reading God related, intellectual related,spiritual talks...salvation details.ect etc...all these slowly tune our mind towards feelings of  'remaining at utmiost peace or bliss' at every moment we come accross.
But to do this..we help the mind to understand this bringing the ultimate /supreme power in our lives..which each of us call as God in their own relative surrendering ourselves to that SUpreme..we tune our minds very very slowly..and gently to let go of everything that we feel we are...that way..we slowly cultivate the habit of being in 'yoga..that is not expectaion of anything in return (karma yoga), and geteting into devotional aspect of understand God as our companion when we go thro emotional aspect.. (bhakthi yoga), and anlysis of every detail in our to how/why it is happening..with our own limited logic/reasoning of mysteries of life..(Jnana yoga)...all these integarted into onself..we raise about all these yogas..(at one will not make a differec either you beileve in God or you do not...last verses on pathanjali yoga), that is the moment you feel there isnothing to worry of anything at all..since you identify with each and every being in the world. This I feel as salvation and once we reach that..we do not even feel that we need to help other get salvation..b'case at this yourself feel u are just a instrument in this it is okay if u can is also okay if youa re unable to help etc.
In very small tersm..salvation is: feeling that tolerance,happiness,joy,peace towarsd oneself and all others in one's heart irrespective of anything one comes across.
hope tis helps. Have a nice day.

Hi Kuldip,

I like this question but I disagree with almost every answer to your question. The important thing is to understand and assimilate the concept of Salvation. Religions (which are all hoaxes and tricks played by a few) may define salvation as "Going and Staying at some place called Heaven, Jannat, VaikunTha or kailasa etc." In this definition only happiness or less than that pleasure is indicated. Because in this world happiness is but an interlude between sufferings, it may sound great to be in a place where only happiness and no grief. But that is only escapism and baseless optimism.

One must realize what is the reason for happiness and grief. Both are mental (dis)orders or at best states of mind. When mind has prejudices, it divides the incidents that are natural in Prakriti into 2 groups (to start with). One it names happiness, the other grief. Away from Prakriti these divisions are illegal. But Mana surrenders to Prakriti ( three Gunas) and sticks to these non existing groups. It then makes Atma, which does not belong to Prakriti subordinate to itself and the sensory organs and Atma in turn is made to feel the effect of these two groups. During mid summer day in tropics Atma is made to sweat, or burn though in truth no fire can burn and no wind can dry it (2nd chapter of Gita). The actual enjoyer is the Mana or better the Prakritic body. 

Hence the real release from grief- happiness-grief cycle is not going to any place as for a picnic; but dissociating Atma with Mana and body. There is a difficulty here. Though Atma is different from Prakriti, it is in the body to "learn" something, to wash some of the stains it gathere from staying in earlier bodies. Survival of the body is essential. The school building is not learning but a building is necessary for teaching and learning. It becomes then the duty of the student/Atma to take care of the building/body. The absolute necessities of the body should be provided to it for its survival. Keeping the body fid shd be taken up as an Yadhya. And remember work done for Yadnya does not entrench on Atma and hence Atma does not suffer pain or pleasure. During this activity Mana the Usurper should be fully under the control of Atma

What happens then? The first that happens is that such an atma does not see the difference between one being and another. It loses the sense of differentiating. It sees only one object in all. Hence, no enemy (nor friend). That is the real Ananda. For, that can not be disturbed by any calamity like floods, Tsunami, earth quake and even terrorism and stock exchange collapses. Without going to any place like Heaven or Vaikuntha or kailasa happiness of completely permanent nature engulfs the Atma. That is Kaivalya or as you said Salvation or Nirvana 

Now you decide for your SELF whether It needs Salvation or not.

God bless you my friend,

Vasudev Sarvam
Friend, If you experience the essential need to attain your Salvation, then surely you must make an effort to do os, however, in if you are happy in your current state, then do nothing, by it self all will happen.   By other's saying, (if you consider Param Shraddhey Swamiji as someone other) do not do anything.  [He who cannot listen to the inner guide "Ishvar", what will he listen to others? 
So be it,
Most humbly
please try to find out what for you need salvation, without which you cannot understand why you need salvation? If you think correctly and deeply, you will understand that if you have death, you have birth or even the converse is true. i.e; if you have birth you will have death. Just as if you have summer, you have winter and if you have winter you will have summer. Similarly, if you have pain, you will also have pleasure( you can even equate pain with birth and pleasure with sex). if you have respect , you have ignominy and so on and so forth. This world is full of dualities; male- female; good - bad etc..etc..
Having understood this clearly only, man struggles get out of the clutches of this duality; i.e. for salvation from death or so called birth. Naturally, when there is no birth or death, there is no pain or disease or old age etc.. of course! there is no pleasure too.

Bhuvangiri Badri Kishore


Salvation takes away all calculations- better than before, better than material life and so on.
It is ecstasy. It can not be desired. It touches you when mind is still. 
The stillness or zero ground or Reality is ever evolving where starting and ending points are the same.
Just see this paradox.
Mind cries for solving the mystery as a satisfactory calculation.
You have to be one with the mystery to see it.
There is no coming back. You are That.
Y V Chawla


|| Shree Hari ||

27th April 2010, Tuesday, Vaishaka Shukla Chaturdashi,Mangalvar
Vikram Samvat 2067, Sri Krishna Samvaat 5236

Definite Means of Salvation

God by showering His grace has given human beings this human body only for attaining salvation.  Besides attaining salvation, there is no other purpose of this human birth.  This body, wealth-prosperity, land-house, wife-son etc, all the worldly things, are all received and will later depart.  Therefore however wealthy one becomes, however strong one becomes, however knowledgeable one becomes, however high a position one reaches, however large a family one gets, without attaining one's salvation, nothing will be of any use whatsoever. It is like having a wedding without the groom, all the worldly enjoyments are of no use.  Therefore man's main duty is to attain salvation. 

There is one very important point that to attain salvation man is entirely independent, competent, worthy, and entitled.  As God gives man this human body, then along with it he gives him the independence, the competence, the worthiness and rights.

Now a question arises that what should man do to attain Salvation?  For this the answer is that man should take these four points and with a firm resolve accept them, then with certainty he will attain salvation.

1) Nothing at all is Mine

2) There is Nothing At All I Want

3)  I have No relation with anyone

4) Only God is Mine very Own.  

The main fault which leads to all other faults and sins is to consider that which we received and which later departs as our very own.  Therefore "Nothing is mine – by accepting this, one's life becomes free of faults.  When life becomes free of faults one automatically becomes righteous (dharmatma).

When nothing at all is mine, then what thing should we desire?  Therefore, "there is nothing at all that I want – by accepting this, life becomes free of desires.  When man is free of desires, then he becomes a Yogi i.e. he attains all forms of equanimity – "Samattvam yog ucchyate" (Gita 2/48).  When there is no desires whatsoever, his attains "chitvruttinirodh"  (Yogdarshan 1-2).  Man's nature is free of association / attachment -  "Asango hyam purshah" (Brhada 4/3/15)  Therefore by not considering your relationship with anyone or thing that comes together and later parts, you experience freedom from associations (asang).  On experiencing freedom from association/attachment, you become a "Gyaani" (knowledgeable). 

Jeev "embodied soul" is part of Paramatma -  "Mamevansh Jeevaloke"  (Gita 15/7).  Due to being part of God, our relationship is only with God and only God is ours.  Besides God no one else is ours.  In this manner when we accept the feeling of "my very own"  (apnapan) with God, then we become a devotee.  

On becoming righteous, man of equal wisdom, knowledgeable and devotee of God, man's salvation is a certainty.   It is not that difficult to do so, because as such all of mankind's innate nature is naturally free of faults, free of desires, free of any associations/attachments and is a part of God.  The point is our Self is pure Existence.  In that Existence free of faults, free of desires, free of attachment is self-evident and that Existence is a part of God.  Therefore it is an aspirant's duty that he takes whatever is suitable from the four points and accepts it firmly, than his salvation is a certainty.  

From book in hindi "Sab Sadhano ka Saar"  by Swami Ramsukhdasji

You can also read message in Hindi  titled  "Kalyan Ka Nischit Upai"  in April folder at:    


Ram Ram

This is from one of Swamiji's old pravachans (16.12.1995)

Be Warned - Attain Salvation by This Human Body

If a man having received this human body, bestowed upon him by God's Grace, does not attain salvation, he/she is a sinner and commits suicide. Such a golden opportunity. After the time has passed there is no use in repenting. God has given us this human body, birth during Kaliyug, desire for salvation, satsang,  books of Gita Press - with all these things if we do not attain salvation - when will we? We have to make proper use of the ingredients we have received by God's Grace. All these circumstances are not attained by our efforts - they are received only by the Grace of God. There is so much of propagation of spirituality and the Gita nowadays. Make proper use of the same - no use repenting later. We are much better off than many people who do not even get to hear such things - they do not get any satsang. Your worldly work will be done by others also but this work only you can do. Such a lovely opportunity but you do not pay attention. A bit of effort from our side and we will reach our goal.

Attachment to pleasures and prosperity is the main obstacle (Gita 2:44). Do not associate yourself with those who hanker after pleasures and prosperity. The attraction for money never reduces. It keeps on increasing. The company of a greedy man is more dangerous than greed itself.

Be warned. You should not be satisfied with spiritual progress. When you earn Rs.100 you want to earn Rs.1000 and so on but are satisfied if you pray for one hour a day. You are so concerned with earning money, you are not paying any attention to the fact that time is constantly passing away. You are not living - you are dying every second. Be aware. Be warned.

Ram Ram


Recent Activity:
All past 3650+ messages are accessible and searchable at

24,500+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.

Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.

Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.



[gita-talk] Looking for a Small Skit or Drama based on Bhagavad Gita


Dear Friends

We are a group of friends who meet twice a week to discuss on Bhagwad gita. We
want to perform a small drama of appx 20 minutes from where people can gain
something from Bhagwad gita. I would appreciate if any friends out there can
help me by sending a small skit/drama for this purpose.

thanks and regards


Shree Hari Ram Ram

Sorry, this is a much delayed posting.  Hopefully there will be many more opportunities for this posting to be useful. 

Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram


Recent Activity:
All past 3650+ messages are accessible and searchable at

24,500+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at