Tuesday, August 31, 2010

[gita-talk] Re: Demoniac Traits - Massive Waste of Resources Your Insights?

 

-Shree Hari_-

Namaste!

We need to look into ones heart in a big way. My son once said something that was very wise, (putting aside likes and dislikes), "If you can't get along with someone, or you object to the way they run their world, just leave them alone ignore them!", following from that, once the chance of conflict is removed, in the fullness of time you may come to respect him/her/them and visa versa.
Re: ....opposition, resistance arises due to selfishness and pride, and these are demoniac traits.  Absolutely! And demonic are the unscrupulous, who stir the fires of xenophobia, religious  difference , national ego, and so on. Resulting in wars and  suffering and massive waste of resources. How demonic is that?

Om... Shanti...

Mike. (K)

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Dear Sadaks,
Human has come over from several births from plant to animals which ranges 5 senses. He carries vasanas from these births and so he behaves is to be understood. I see a lion and never get angry on it, as I know it`s qualities, and keep distance. I see a peacock and admire and wish go close by. But the peacock maintains distance from me by running away, as it knows that most humans harm them.But if Buddha or Adi Sankara was to pass by them, one can surely note that they NEVER run away instead, they remain Satvik and calm. I am not angry on both, since I understood the creation. So also there are persons like snake, lion, peacock, deer, cow etc due to the vasanas carried by him from earlier births. Then there is NO anger, hate etc on anyone because I have fully used my sixth sense in right direction. This stage is examination for Athuma, which raises to heaven.
' A true Yogi sees Me in all beings and also sees everybeing in Me, as said by Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D.
One thing I cannot understand, why M.D.--M.b.b.s---Phd along with name. They are recognition for world, but not to spirituality. Pardon me If I am wrong.
B.Sathyanarayan


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-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Dear Hemendraji,

I know where you are coming from, but consider my words carefully: 'or you object to the way they run their world', the operative word is,  'their', not them impacting on you physically, or interfering. Maybe they have a religion you have no liking for, or a way of life...
I give a simple example , I have a neighbor who is a vexation,  he has built some ugly constructions bordering my fence line, I maybe able to go to the council and challenge his constructions they seem borderline. Easier solution, I have put up some garden mesh, planted a row of native creepers, beautiful perfumed flowers, mother natures screen. Do you think Sri Krsna would say it is not a reasonable thing to do.

But to get to the deeper points: People are used by the unscrupulous, do do their dirty business for their own ends, the old 'US & THEM' illusion.
I will paste in some brilliant observations
of the mystic Thomas Merton's on how this is achieved :

Propaganda "makes up our mind for us," yet we continue to think we are free. But propaganda is' originated by no one; "it is the mass mind, the general 'they,' the anonymous whole." Since "everyone" agrees, how could anyone be wrong?


Each individual in the mass . . . doesn't care, he doesn't hear, , he doesn't think. He does not act, he is pushed. He does not talk, he produces conventional sounds when stimulated by the appropriate noises. He does not think, he secretes cliches ' (NSC, 55).


We have become addicted "to the kind of narcotic thinking induced by the mass media." We have become zombies, dead bodies moved by evil spirits, "demonized,"....

Here and now I will say the great antidote to being turned into a 'zombie',  is to follow the spiritual path, to turn to the Divine, and away from  Demonic.

The Supreme Lords  comments in Gitaji re demonic behavior: Ch. 16

The demoniac do not know, what to do (pravrtti) and refrain from (nivrtti). Neither purity, nor good conduct nor truth is found in them. 7

Holding fast to this view, these perverted souls of false understanding, and cruel deeds, not believing in the eternal soul, appear as enemies of the world, for its destruction. 9

That foe has been slain by Me and others also I shall slay. I am the Lord, I am the enjoyer, I am perfect, mighty and happy. I possess supernatural powers. 14

This has nothing to do with defending ones people with honor, by the army and the police in this age of darkness.
It's when such forces are used upon society or it's neighbors for demonic reasons  as I outlined above.
To kill millions, and to destroy resources, to starve and operate genocide, against people who are no threat , usually on a false premise; I see that as demonic.


Om ... Shant ...

Mike.

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Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka, regarding demoniac and divine traits.
Chapter 16 of Bhagavad Gita clearly describes demoniac and divine traits.
What we need to embrace is the divine traits.
Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,
" Sarva bhuta stham atmanam,
Sarva bhutani catmani,
Ikshate yoga yuktatma,
Sarvatra sama darsanah. "
( Gitaji 6, 29 )
Which means,
' A true Yogi sees Me in all beings and also sees everybeing in Me. This self realized person sees the Supreme Lord everywhere. '
Once we learn to see the Lord in everybeing, then we treat that person , the way we want to be treated , that is with compassion.
"Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah. "
Which means nonviolence is the highest and the best dharma.

Devotional service purifies our hearts, and gives us the divine traits.
Thank you.
Hare Krishna.
Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D

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Vasudeva Sarvam
Brother Mike ji!
There are two words that never separate from each other.  Attraction and Aversion (Likes / Dislikes).  Wherever there is attraction for someone (liking), there will be aversion (disliking)to the others.  Wherever there is hatred towards someone, there itself there will be love/liking towards another.   If there is liking / attraction for peace,  therefore there is aversion to lack of peace (wars, conflicts, differences, opposition, dislikes etc) There is nothing new about this because likes and dislikes are two sides of the same coin.   They always remain together.  Is anyone ever able to separate the two?  If they have done so then tell me?   That which has been called "demonaic" it is the existence of that alone that have given existence to " divine" or "angelic".
so be it,  most humbly
A Sadhak
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Respected Mike;

I have often admired your posts and insight. But this one bothers me. Should Arjuna have been counseled in the way you outlined by Shri Krishna? Please share your insight. Thanks.

Hemendra Parikh

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[gita-talk] Re: Bhagavad Gita - Daily - II CHAPTER 4 - 26 II

 

Gita 4-26

srotraadineendiryaanyanye samyamaagnisu juhvati  |

sabdaadeenvisayaananya indriyaagnisu juhavti  || 26 ||    

 

"Some offer hearing and all other senses as sacrifice into the fire of restraint; other Yogis offer sound and other objects of senses into the fire of the senses."

Comment

In seclusion, restraining the senses from indulging in the sense objects, thus exercising self control is called 'sayamroopa-yajna'. In practical life, being free from likes and dislikes, while senses are moving among the sense objects, is called 'vishayahavanaroop-yajna'.

The act of fire sacrifice (havan) is complete only when there are no more objects left to offer in the fire. The reason is that fire sacrifice is possible only when there is no residue left of the sacrificial objects. As long as there are objects still left, the sacrifice is not complete.

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PLEASE SEE REVISED GITA 25


Gita 4-25

daivamevaapare yajnam yoginah paryupaasate  |

brahmaagnaavapare yajnam yajnenaivopajuhvati || 25 ||    

"Some Yogis perform sacrifices (worship etc. yajnas) as an offering to God alone; while others offer the self as sacrifice by the sacrifice of discrimination ('Vichar or by thought) in the fire of the Supreme."

Comment

Regarding all actions and objects as not ours and also not for us,  and  believing these to be exclusively  the Lord's and for Him only, this form of sacrifice is called "bhagavadarpanroop yagya". Merging one's existence in God's existence or complete annihilation of ego is called "abhinnataaroop-yagya." 

 

From "Gita Prabodhani" in hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

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Shree Hari  Ram Ram 

Dear Sadhaks, 

This week was the 25th anniversary of the publication of the great treatise "THE BHAGAVAD GITA - SADHAK SANJIVANI by SWAMI RAMSUKHDASJI" .   Read it, encourage others to read it, listen to it, get others to listen to it, study it and gain from it. It is invaluable.

CLICK ON LINKS BELOW FOR INVALUABLE RESOURCES - 

- THE BHAGAVAD GITA -  SADHAK SANJIVANI  (ENGLISH)  


THE BHAGAVAD GITA - SADHAK SANJIVAN  in Hindi 

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-  Bhagavad Gita Recitation  -  B.R. Soni (melodious)  

Five Gita Verses for Daily Recital  (You Tube)


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[gita-talk] Re: Krishna is Supreme Controller - Then what is the role of Stars in our Life?

 

Hare Krishna Prabhu Ji,
 
Sadar Pranam,
 
I have a small confusion. In BG 7.20, 7.22 & 7.23 Lord Krishna is emphasizing that men of small intelligence worship demigods (Devi Devtas) and their fruits are temporary. Actually these benefits are bestowed by Lord Krishna alone. So Lord Krishna is supreme controller. So we should have complete faith and surrender to Krishna only. In such a situation what is role of Nakshatra (stars) positions in once life. if One is having complete faith in Krishna, whether his star / zodiac position will act differently or not ?
 
Secondly, the first page of Sadhak Sanjivani starts with Ganesh Stuti, Gajananam Bhoot Ganadi Sevitam Kapith Jambu fal charu bhaksnam............ Please also explain the importance / relevance of such stuti in view of BG 7.20. 7.22 & 7.23
 
Regards
 
Urs Servant
Sir,Just see the basic issue. Read or listen to what others or scriptures
say.Come to yourself. You can not depend upon any body to see the Truth. It is
always known, understood, seen first hand. Words can take you up to a
point. Gita is not like a text book where one can come to readymade
conclusions. Gita is like a 'live' wire. It strikes against what you are
holding. This striking produces sparkles of Truth.

Y V Chawla

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Krishna is Supreme Controller - Then what is the role of Stars in our Life?

Akbar used to revere saints and particularly a Fakir dwelling in certain village. The village suffered severely due to draught. The villagers requested the Fakir to get some help from Akbar as they know how Akbar respected the man. The Fakir agreed and went to Delhi palace. He was lead directly to Akbar's chamber as the chamberlains knew who he was. Fakir was requested to wait since Akbar was praying. Fakir happened to listen to Akbar's prayers. 

Akbar was praying Allah for great empire, its expansion across the world he knew, its prosperity, his popularity and pwer, and what not. The Fakir realized … this fellow is mere a beggar! … How can he "give" anything?! … How can he solve any problem??!! He said to himself ... when Allah is the only GIVER, why ask anybody else who can be nothing but a beggar as such???!!! 

He returned before Akbar got up from his prayers. 

Of course, the story goes that the emperor ran his intelligence to find out why the saint was at his place and helped the villagers to get out of that draught with ease. But, how many draughts and how many villages even an emperror can handle? Only He can handle the world the way it ought to be. 

Even if any cosmic power is construed as THAT, the understanding remains dubious and questionable … 

Yadasya tvam yadasya deveshvatHanu meemaasyameva te manye viditam ||

The greatest of all the emperors is also a beggar! So are the stars and planets ... so are all the cosmic powers ... everything is under His spell and will do whatever they ought to ... be it The Sun or The Fire or The Air … be it the lord of of The Cosmos, Indra himself … even The Death cannot surpass what it is prescribed with. Everything is bound to the duties prescribed and cannot do otherwise ... nothing can transcend THAT ... 

Bhayaadasyaagnistapati bhayaattapati sooryah |
Bhayaadindrashcha vaayushcha mrityurdhaavati panchamamh ||

Even when you see the role of people around and the stars around, all their roles are embedded within The Role that IT IS. All the roles that you may ever fathom are also released from THE SAME, will roll within THE SAME and will disperse into THE SAME. Therefore, why depend on anything when they all depend on The Vaasudeva? 

YatpraaNena na praaNiti yena praaNah praNeeyate |
Tadeva brahma tvam viddhhi nedam yadidamupaasate ||

Why don't I depend on the very BASIS for everything as I AM???!!! … Why anything else???!!! I wonder … I ponder … being puzzled how my sight gets short to be lost in the oblivion of short-sighted beliefs and notions again and again … being eager when will I shed my ignorance ... Lord alone knows when His Grace ought to descend on His dust clinging to His feet ... 

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

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Dear Sadaks,
 
Krishna controls through stars (Tools) as elecric/electronic power acts through machines (Tools) to control production! Stars are set as per One's past and present karmas. One who has realised Self or known Krishna as the main controlller to him Star effect does not touch him no way, though seemingly as if acting but to him it has no role to play!
 Narayana Narayana

(Kuldeep Kumar Kaul)
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Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.
This is in reference to a question from a Sadhaka.
Lord Krishna gives us the freedom of choice. If we worship Demigods, we get them in the end but if we worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then we end up in His kingdom.

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita,
" Jyotisham ravir amsuman,
Nakshatranam aham sasi. "
( Gitaji 10, 21)
Which means,
Of the lights I am the radiant Sun, and among the stars I am the moon.

Lord Krishna says,
" Devanam asmi vasavah. "
( Gitaji 10, 22)
Which means,
' Of the Demigods, I am Indra , the king of heaven. '

Lord Krishna says,
" Rudranam sankaras casmi. "
( Gitaji, 10, 23)
Which means,
' Of all the rudras , I am Lord Siva. '
Lord Krishna says,
" Senaninam aham Skandah. "
( Gitaji 10, 24)
Which means,
' Of the generals I am Kartikeya , son of Siva. '
What this means is, whether we worship Sun, Moon ,Indra ,Siva, or Siva' s son, we are basically worshipping the Lord Krishna but as Lord Krishna clearly explains in Bhagavad Gita, if we worship Him directly , then we go to His abode.
So let us engage ourselves in devotional service, with total surrender unto His lotus feet and reach Him directly. For this Kaliyuga, devotional service in the form of chanting is highly advised.
Let us chant the Holy Names and advance spiritually.
Thank You.
Hare Krishna.
Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, M.D


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Dear Sadaks,
The Stars have control over people who so ever it may be. For godly people, the stars effect is nullified. For worldly people they under go the cause and effect of Stars. For so many saints they were abused, underwent sufferings, sickness, but they were least affected by it or even saved by God, like Jada Bharat, Adi Sankar Etc.
B.Sathyanarayan


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Vasudeva Sarvam
If Paramatma is restricted to from of Krishna, then Gita  7 :20 , 22 , 23  can cause confusion.
So be it,
A Sadhak
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[gita-talk] Re: Even as a Spiritual Person a Little Fear Remains; Any shlokas to Overcome?

 

Hariom,


i just wanted to know how to get out of  this " FEAR" which keeps comes and goes off . Y cant we have confidence in God that he is there and everything will be taken care of?  Is there any shloka's by which can be eradicated by reciting them? can anyone  answer my question?
 
2. What is the difference between a  Thought and  a Perception?   

"shankaranandi"

=======================================================

To overcome Fear --is to stop identifying yourself with the body mind.

gokul mehta

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-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

I scanned through my Gita reference and settled on the shloka below, the firm focus upon the Supreme Lord will help you, like when someone is on a very narrow path on a cliff face, and paralyzed with fear, and a helper shouts, "look at me don't look down look at me!".

 Chapter 9 Verse 34           SADHAKA-SANJIVANI              pg  1135

Fix your mind on Me, be devoted to Me, adore Me, prostrate to Me, thus making yourself steadfast in Me, and entirely surrendering to Me, you will, reach Me. 34

Comment:—

[The Lord discloses His secret to His devotee Arjuna who is devoid of a carping spirit, and who has devotion for Him.]

'Madbhaktah'—Lord Krsna, asks Arjuna, to be devoted to Him. He should realize his real relationship with Him, that he is His and He is his. He should renounce, the assumed relationship that he belongs to a particular caste, creed and country etc.

'Manmana bhava'—The mind, is fixed on a person or a object, that a person loves and likes. So Lord Krsna, reminds Arjuna that his affinity with Him is eternal, because he is His fraction. The Lord cannot forget this affinity, but Arjuna can forget it. So He exhorts him, to fix his mind on Him, by loving and liking Him.

I hope the above will give you something to build on, that your love for the 'The Divine Beloved', will help you overcome your fears!
I consider that when all ones fears are washed away by the mutual love of oneself and the Supreme Lord, the doorway to bliss will be standing before you!

Om ... Shanti ...

Mike.
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Dear Sadak,
What fear? Is it for survival, death, sickness, enmity or unknown.
Sri shankaranandi" fear is from mother`s womb. She was fearing strongly for something that transmitted to the child. Perfect scientific evidence is there. Secondly the fear is because of your own Karma, which has to washed off. Fear of death, Say Sri Venkateswara Vajra Kavacham in which last line is "Murthum Tharathi Nirbayaha" (No fear of death), unknown fear say, Krishnastakam in last line, it says Koti Jalma Papam Vinasyathi (Crore births sins washed off). You can get from Prapati.com. Here, once the fear goes, do not go back to the world, focus on God sincerely.
B.Sathyanarayan


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Mind can see its limit. To see its limit is to touch the limitless.
~Y V Chawla
 
that's, verily ,  the Key ............. and , the Fundamental Expressions are a wealth ........... thank you , chawlajee
 
AUM
narinder bhandari 
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Even as a Spiritual Person a Little Fear Remains; Any shlokas to Overcome?

My dear friend, 

Fears can never be mitigated till desires are obliterated enroute. If one senses the dejectable odours of  fears, know that the foul smell is being emitted by the very desires which seem to emit fragrance ... one ought to always smell the desires hidden beneath the fears. 

It is like a mouse running inside a stagnant spinner wheel … Imagine a piece of cheese hanging in the front and a piece on fire behind … the fellow thinks he running for a purpose ... runs restlessly keeping a hope to put its mouth around the delicacy ahead. But, it always remains cognizant of the terror raised by the fire behind ... runs its best to escape from the wrath of the fire ... till the energy within depletes into a sleep. 

The fellow never understands why it is running, but it cannot help itself to stop due to inertia that it has built by itself by constantly fueling the same with fears and desires. When tired, the fellow may enter sleep … but the wheel of tendencies it has built continues to spin as time passes. In fact, the fellow enters sleep only to nurture its momentum further ... to get back into the chase with more energy! If the body refuses to cope with the demand within ... it shifts gear ... toward another fit and able one! But it keeps nurturing the wheel and its momentum perpetually no matter what ... fueling it with desires while being burnt bu the fears behind ... 

Ya esha supteshu jaagarti kaamam kaamam kaamam purusho nirmimaanah | 

Every step the mouse jumps on the wheel rim, the wheel collects more momentum to sustain its own motion. The mouse never understands that it is chasing the same thing in terms of its desires that it is running away from in terms of fears ... it fails to understand that the cheese and the fire are nothing but the same ... it fails to fathom that, the two will verily pause if it pauses remaining as distant as they were ... it fails to recognize the fact that the fear seem to shorten its distance from it ONLY because it wants to shorten the distance with the desire ... it never realizes the fact that the same desire becomes fear to show itself again and again to sustain its own presence intact …and, the same fear becomes desire again and again to sustain its own presence intact. The game continues. 

My dear friend, no matter what we recite and whatever else we do (and do not do), we cannot escape this spinning wheel " UNLESS " we learn to pause to cut the fuel supply to the wheels momentum "the more often we cut the supplies, lesser would become the momentum ... letting the fellow pause completely eventually ...

Therefore, please learn to pause in life. Fears are like dogs  "you run away - they chase. Desires are like mirages you chase - they run away! But, try out pausing the game once you will realize the dog pauses … the mirage pauses as you pause.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
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Vasudeva Sarvam

The Question is -
i just wanted to know how to get out of  this " FEAR" which keeps comes and goes off .
When fear comes than simply see that who has this fear come to?  (Nothing can ever come to you, because whatever comes, comes to the mind-intellect.  Swamiji has clearly asked to not accept the mind-intellect as ours.   Whatever is not yours, in that if fear comes, what difference does it make to you?    Y cant we have confidence in God that he is there and everything will be taken care of?   As long as you have faith in yourself, till then you will not develop faith in God.   Is there any shloka's by which can be eradicated by reciting them?  There is no verse that I have come across that is greater than having complete faith and trust in God .  can anyone  answer my question?
 
2. What is the difference between a  Thought (विचार)  and  a Perception (दृष्टि)None as I know.  Both happen in the mind. 
So be it,  most humbly,
sadhak

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Just see Sir.
Mind is trying to undo fear with ideas, thoughts, may be about God and so on.
There is no way fear can be eradicated by ideas.
You have to see it as a fact, absorb it, be one with it, not assuage it by ideas.
This is concentration of total energy.
Suddenly, mind is in a fluid state.
This is your connection to the 'whole'.
This applies to stress, anxiety, anger and so on.
Just be clear that Truth is not a definite, positive, within our control thing.
Mind can see its limit. To see its limit is to touch the limitless.
For further exposition one may search Fundamental Expressions on the web.
Y V Chawla


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Shree Hari Ram Ram 
In Drops of Nectar, Swamiji when asked about fear - said the following

Question: What is the best way to get rid of fear, worry and anxiety? Please explain.

Swamiji:  Think this over seriously - Who is affected by fear, worry and anxiety?
Prakriti (Body, Mind) is affected by Prakriti (World). But the Self (Soul) remains unaffected. The Self remains the same. That Self, is the knower or the observer. Feelings and thoughts are transitory, whereas the Self is permanent.  The transitory things have no effect on the permanent. So how can fear, worry and anxiety which are temporary have effect on the permanent Self? In Gita
14:23 God declares "He sits like a man who is unconcerned, is not moved by Gunas (attributes), and knowing that only Gunas operate, remains firmly established in God and is never shaken from that state." If you understand this point, you will be free from fear, worry and anxiety. You will attain eternal joy. So, renounce fear, worry and anxiety and be established in the
Self. However, if you cannot get rid of these, pray to God, "O Lord, I am unable to get rid of them." Your surrender with prayer has great power in achieving your aim. You will get success undoubtedly.
Meera Das,  Ram Ram 

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Shree Hari  Ram Ram
Kindly read past SADHAK and GITA_TALK messages on your issue.   Please kindly provide your input / feedback after reviewing the various responses from sadhaks.  Ram Ram 

SADHAK MESSAGE
Ways to Get Rid of Fear, Worry and Anxiety
Leave All Fears. Become Fearless
Being Free from Fears and Desires - Part 1 
Being Free from Fears and Desires - Part 2
About Attachment, Fear and Anger
What is the best way to get rid of fear, worry and anxiety? 

GITA TALK MESSAGES
Leave All Fears. Become Fearless - HOW?
How to Overcome Fear of Suffering and Needing Comfort? 

Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram 

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