Saturday, May 8, 2010

[gita-talk] Re: Advice Sought for Troubled Marriage

 

Shree Hari Ram Ram 

CLEANING UP A VERY OLD POSTING.  THIS BRINGS CLOSURE TO THIS TOPIC.   THANK YOU ALL!  RAM RAM  

-------------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Dear Sadhakas:

Namaste.

I have been asked by a close friend of our family to advise him
about ending his marriage. They have been separated for almost 4
years and there seems to be no way they will get back together.
Both wife and husband been very reluctant hesitant to end the
marriage but it is merely legalistic now with no love or romance or
any desires by either husband or wife to continue the marriage.
Also, It appears as if both parties are ready to develop other
personal relationships. There are no children involved.

My advice to him and others in a similar situation is that marriage
is sacrosanct and should not be terminated except in rare
circumstances. Marriage is an eternal bond that should not be
broken and all efforts must be made and all avenues exhausted before
even thinking of ending a marriage. But I have great difficulties in
specifying what are these extenuating circumstances, if any, that
would justify ending a marriage.

Is there any advice or information in Bhagavad Gita that can help in
situaitons like this? Are there justifiable circumstances when
divorce and end of marriage are permitted in Hinduism? While the
gravity and great significance of the HIndu marriage must be taken
into account it appears, when faced with these situations, that
there is a disconnect between practice of our Eternal Sanatan Dharma
and some of the unpleasant and worldly matters. I use the
word "appears" because I do not believe there exist such a
disconnect and dissonance.

Ram Ram,
Richard Seecharan
-----------------------------------------------------------

NEW POSTING

Shree Hari.
 
Richard,
 
Now you tell that the couple have seperate relationships.Then there was no need to seek advise in ending marriage. It was not mentioned if it was a Hindu marriage and if it was then what cause the seperation.There is some confusion as to what you really asked for and now no one is sure whether help is needed. Whether it is marriage or any other part of life, Gitaji is precise with what one is supposed to do. We do our duty and leave results to Shree Krishnaji. Everyone will reap the results of whatever they do sinful or not sinful.Every man woman and child have to one day face the results of their actions and only Shree Krishnaji decides what is sinful act or not sinful act.Whether your close friend commit sin and his wife did only they and Shree Krishnaji know. If they are Sadhaks they would know this. You must invite them to this Satsangh here and they will learn what is Dharma and learn what are the lessons of Gitaji. It is not too late to save their souls as yet so please invite them here so that they can learn from all the very great and learned people here. The heart of Shree Krishnaji is very loving and so is the heart of his devotees as we can see here.
 
Radhe Krishna.
Ram Singh
--------------------------------------------------------------

Om jai shri ram,
 
   I want to tell you a few words about husband and wife relationship according to Hindu Dharm.  Both husband and wife should sacrifice each other and not to yield to bad situations or negative vibrations.
 
     In our life, one cannot expect a boon always, but there is a down trend also, keeping the balance up and down, always swinging up and down.  Those who understand this elementary thing in life, they can lead a happy life. Those who want to separate, Let them try this, " what issues which make them disagree, what are the precedents for this issue, how our elders have dealt this problem. Likewise, both partners or both families have to analyse and come to a conclusion.
 
    If any attempt is made to separate for trivial issues, that means, both partners doesn't have enough maturity to deal with the problem, in which case, they have to approach either a family counsellor or family elders in their house. This way they can solve the problem.
 
Best ragards
Oranga - Happy living
-----------------------------------------------------------

 

I rarely participate in these discussions but it seems to me that people often quote Hindu Dharma from a male perspective and often as it suits them, so I will bring up a few issues. People use the Bhagawat Geetha as well as other scriptures as models for their lives but there are many instances where these models don't fit with social norms in Hindu and other societies.

1.      Arjuna is married not only to Panchali but to Subhadra sister of Lord Krishna and to many others. In fact Arjuna has a wife in every one of the desams that he traveled in .  Where is Dharma here? Is this Hindu Dharma?

2.      Panchali is simultaneously married to all the five Pandvas. Dies this fit with Sanathana Dharma?

3.      Kunthi begets Karna even before her marriage- leave alone that the other pandava children all have different fathers. True, it is explained that this is due to Manthra and not due to any normal process. How do you explain this to a child wanting to learn Hindu scriptures.?

4.      Bhishma is asked to promise not to marry in order to enable his father to marry again. Where is Dharma here? A father for the sake of his lust prevents his son from a normal life. I agree that this is not given as a model but how often does anyone think of questioning this?

5.      There are many other instances which don't fit with current norms.

So, when any one gives advice to others quoting from scriptures then it seems to me that  Hindu Dharma is being interpreted in a one sided way. Various Guruji's will give various interpretations for the examples given above but when you read the Mahabharatha you can only read the written words not the interpretations.

Personally I believe that the couple should do whatever makes them happy. As far as I can see nothing in the Gita addresses the questions raised by this devotee.

Sincerely

Venkat Hari

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
 
This is to Richard:
 
I have been asked by a close friend of our family to advise him
about ending his marriage---did your close friend marry according to Hindu marriage ceremony? If they did then ---merely legalistic now with no love or romance or any desires by either husband or wife to continue the marriage..--has nothing to do with their marriage. Hindu marriage is not based on any of the above ,it is based more on respect,is a spiritual partnership..  Marriage
is sacrosanct and should not be terminated in no circumstances.You want to know where in Gitaji it advises about marriages. Gitaji preaches about Dharma which is Duty. When a man marry according to Hindu rites he performs Kanyadaan. This is the cermony where parents hands over their daughter to the husband and he swears in front God and the people witnessing that he will take care of that girl. It is now his duty to take total care of the wife like the parents took care of their daughter. He does not have a choice any more as he took the vow himself. Whether there is problem in marriage, husband is duty bound to take care of wife. No if and buts and excuses that these are moderntimes.Gitaji was spoken in ancent times but the truths in Gitaji are for eternity that is duty is duty.Anyone who follows Gitaji will never do anything against Dharma. Shree Krishnaji made Arjunaji perform his duty even though he did not want to do it. Richard,you are close friend with husband so your advise to him is that if he is a follower of Gitaji and he is cares about Dharma then he must perform his duty as is prescribed in Hindu mariage vows.. Same should be told to wife and you should tell this to her too.
 
Radhe Krishna
Ram Singh

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Namaste
Thanks to everyone for the great advice.

There is an issue that appears to be complex but it may
simple to answer. If two people are unhappy and they don't
want to be together after several years of separation and
they are pursuing relationships then isn't it proper that they
divorce and go their separate ways rather than living in
sin.
I think it is sin if you are married and although separated you
are having relationship with someone else. It is even more
sinful if you are married and commit yourself to another
person. I humbly think that it is better they divorce rather
than live in sin.
But we should not encourage Hindus to break their marriages
so how can we deal with this difficult matter in the context I described.

As for the sadhak who was not too happy with these
discussion I suggest Gita is not only about discussion of the
scriptures in isolation but how we can use Gita to improve
our lives and how to apply Gita to everything that affects
us.

Ram Ram ,

Richard Seecharan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas

We all doubtless sympathise with the estranged couples. And would do willingly
what we could to save the marriage.

My feeling is spirituality does not exist in a vacuum. It exists in, among and through the people.

Secondly Religion is not an atomic science reserved only for a few. It is an everyday practise. The word "sadhaka" means practiser, accomplishing, a devotee, an ascetic.

So, what is wrong if people ask about their worries and we answer them from our spirituality point of view.

Thirdly, i have my own doubt. What role is played by marriage in a sadhaka's life. it is totally not clear. is it a hinderance. or a help. What the scriptures say for a person who want to progress spiritually.

What type of mate to be chosen. How the life has to be conducted?

Can the exalted sadhakas explain this with reference to BG

Siva

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


--------------------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING
-Shree Hari-

I can understand Ashok Goenka's annoyance, but if one looks at the question
calmly, one realizes, that Richard is holding his question under the lamp of
Sanatan Dharma, Bhagavad Gita.
I see this question as a challenge, certainly to me as the only recourse I have
is Gitaji, and I have seen comments to the fact that there is no direct mention
of marriage in the Bhagavad Gita.

Possibly Bhagavad Gita Ch:3/19 below may apply to the question.
Therefore, constantly unattached
Perform that which is your duty.
Indeed by unattached action
Man surely attains the Supreme.

As for Hindu customs regarding marriage, that will have to be answered by
others.

I have seen a few failed marriages, often caused by desire, not only for another
person, but for booze, drugs, money, to self serve and so on.

Would desire be the the root cause of this marriage breakup Richard I wonder?

With Respect and Divine Love,
Mike (Keenor).

-----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om



The concern of the Questioner is genuine and praise worthy. But the fact remains
that this world is going its own way , which way has been brought out in our
Scriptures ages ago. Refer Ramayana- Uttar Kaand, where the direction, to which
majority would go as Kaliyuga clouds get dense , is described. Here the
questioner can only be advised to sincerely tell the couple to see the reason.
There is no need for any extra insistence. This world is going to the dogs. Let
we ourselves become cautious. To the others we can not mould beyond a limit.
Refer Gita 3:33 – NIGRAHAH KIM KARISHYATI ? The world is like the dog's curly
tail, millions have tried to straighten it out, none has succeeded. This is not
to discourage the questioner. This is not to undermine the importance of wise
counsel in human life, but this is to state that beyond a point, there is no
benefit. Many times right advice even becomes counter productive. Let there be
a session on Gita 3:33 !

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
-------------------------------------------------------------


Hello

In my humble opinion, knowledge will definitely help. Give a fair chance for the
spiritual knowledge to act on them.

As far as one is not ready to accept each other as they are, it is not going to
help them even going forward (even if they seperate and have personal
relationships) . The situation will simply continue as if it is the same movie
with diffetent characters.

You know when we like something, the next thing we will be doing is to possess
it. When we like beauty we want to possess it and then get hold of its neck
thinking that it is love. Love is surrender, not possession. That is what
devotion in spirituality teaches you. Surrender will not happen without faith
and trust. Love should make you free and if it does not make you free it will
gets transformed into fear and hatred. Infact love does not need any
expression. You just have to be in silence and it blossom
naturally.Appreciations happens naturally. When you try to express, it will get
spoiled because no words can express it in its fullness. No actions can express
it in its fullness.

Even Ego which plays spoilsport in marriages is due to lack of knowledge. Ego
brings lack of belongingness. It foster a sense of separation. Ego will dissolve
naturally without any effort when you are in spirituality.

You must have heard the sanskrit word "Pooja". "Poo" means Full. "Ja" means Out
of. So "Pooja" means "Out of Fullness". What comes out of fullness is
reverence/gratitude. It is an act of showing gratitude towards the GOD. When you
are in gratitude towards the Devine naturally you will have gratitude towards
all his creations also. Where is the place for Ego, hatred, fear then.

In Geetha, Lord Krishna talks a lot about these manifestations and more
importantly how to get out of these. (Chapter 2, text 56, 57, 66, 67 ).



With warm regards
= = = = = = = = =
Venu Gopal
= = = = = = = = =
------------------------------------------------------------
sita ram
i think you have to listen to your heart,what is it telling you , and ask
yourself do you really want to end your marriage, is it worth it ,i mean you
had to love your wife before taking or making that huge step. ask your self
these questions.
why do i want to end this marriage? why don't we love each other? why no romance
in our marriage? can i make it work? do i have to divorce? only you can decide.
in marriage you compromise, with certain things, because for me no one is
perfect only god, well its a very hurtful situation, i wish you all the best.

sorry to say this....i dont know much about this forum but i think everyone is
very intelligent i see no reason why you can give people advice, we who dont
know much as these great ones in GITA TALK.

sita ram
sharmilla doma
-------------------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
First, both must try hard to stay in the marriage seeking counsel, involving
common friend or relative who is trust worthy and fair. After giving it a fair
chance, if it is not possible for the relationship to continue and no love is
felt, then I think it should be ended amicably.
Separation should be smooth and fair to both sides. Even here one should wish
the other well!
Richard, you have done your part very well in advising them not to break away
such sacred bond just like that. However, it does appear to be one of rare cases
where it would be better as there appears to be pains on both sides in the
relationship. If they are forced to stay in it, suffering may resurface down the
road if the love is lost again.
If, at least, one of them is very sincere in trying hard to keep it going, but
cannot do it alone, it may be better to end with the understanding on both part
to do the best for each other.
You can tell them this.
God has given us the intelligence not to suffer unnecessarily. Our intellect may
not see fairly and squarely because of ego-me, but if there is impersonal
thinking, which is free of "me" and "mine" to a greater degree, then it is God
given Intelligence that charts our course of action, becomes our charioteer.
Gita tells us this.
This may be a message to present generation to bring in spirituality in their
lives rather than running around thinking "what is in it for me?". Before
marriage couples dream and depend for their happiness on physical attractions to
each other as it is natural. However, this dependency soon brings the
unhappiness because novelty wears off sooner than both think.
The best we can teach our children is that become interested in God, Scriptures,
Religion from the beginning. Once married, remember as often as you can the very
useful mantra, "I can never find a better spouse than I already have". And
whenever there is problem, which is bound to happen here and there, say "This is
just a small price to pay for the gift of this relationship". You will succeed
for sure!
Namaskar..............

Pratap Bhatt


--------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadak,
Husband responsibility is to take care of wife , like Sri Rama. Wife's
responsibility is to totally surrender to husband under all circumstances,
thereby she gets the benefit of Moksha/liberation. Difference of opinions can be
sorted out by both under guidance of learned person.
Jai Sri krishna
B.Sathyanarayan

-----------------------------------------------------------
This is the case of inner voice and feeling amongst both of them If there is any
councillor between then he can try to see that both comes together.Actually
speaking both ought to remember the words spoken at the time of marriage by the
priest or the priest about some promises taken from both of them If there is no
problem of any children it is better to give divorce and then live peacefully
instead of quarreling for the rest of the life.This s the
practical approach in human life
S S Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krishna,
I am afraid that this group is moving towards a counseling service for unhappy
married/unmarried people.
I will be happy if I am wrong.
Any way as far as I understand Gita deals with mental state of a person.
Even Swamiji emphasized more on mental state than KARMA.
If we do some thing with bad (selfish) intention then it is sin.
We live in a society and so we have to follow the norms of the society we live
in.
Ashok Goenka

----------------------------------------------------------
GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES:

FOR QUESTIONER
1. The questions as far as possible must be relavant to Gita,
relavant to Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relavant to
motivate Sadhaks to take up spiritual path
2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study
3. Only one question at a time.
4. Question must be brief, to the point and relavant to the group's
primary aim of deeper understanding of Gita.

FOR RESPONDER
1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.
3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the
extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
4. Be as concise, to the point, relevant and respectful of sadhaka's
time.
5. Focus on subject at hand only.
6. Do not include links to the other sites.
7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).
8. Do not personalize message
9. All responses may not be posted.
10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.
11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-
sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.
Provide English word bracketed.

MODERATOR
Ram Ram
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

Post message: gita-talk@yahoogrou ps.com
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe @yahoogroups. com
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscri be@yahoogroups. com
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

__._,_.___
Recent Activity:
All past 3190+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/

23,600+ sadhakas

A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189
MARKETPLACE

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now.


Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers Center.


Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! Explore new interests.

.

__,_._,___

No comments: