SHREE HARI RAM RAM
THIS BRINGS CLOSURE TO THIS POSTING ! WE HAVE MANY QUESTIONS IN THE PENDING QUEUE AND NEED TO MOVE ON ! RAM RAM
I am 44 years old govt. employee, residing in Delhi having two daughters, 19 yrs and 13 yrs old. My wife is also a govt. employee. For the last more that 20 years I have been living spiritual life. I am blessed with the satsang of Swami Ramsukhdasji and other saints at for many years. Daily I read Gitaji and Ramcharitmanas and do Dhyana sadhana.
My great problem is that despite giving sensual pleasures as seva to my life partner for last 20 yrs. of marriage, still she is unsatisfied and wants me to continue with the sexuality and worldly pleasures, which at this point of time when I feel myself totally disinterested in worldly pleasures and desires, do not want to go with it. Whenever I try very politely to make her understand the truth of life and sensual pleasures, she gets annoyed and starts quarreling. Now the agony is that she has started threatening me for divorce. Though I am not afraid of divorce, as the same will be more conducive in my sadhana, but the problem is that if I opt for the same, it will have a very bad effect on the future of my daughters who are at present my utmost responsibility (till they are marriaged). Under these circumstances I fail to concentrate fully on my sadhana. If I opt to continue with the present situation, apprehension of her being currupt will be high.
Please suggest me a viable solution. I can compromise on every point except to indulge in sensual pleasures.
Reading this thread with great interest and am impressed with the depth of the
replies. Brahmacharya is not merely an enforced celibacy but it is a life lived
with an awareness and union with the universal consciousness. Dharma is laid
down in the scriptures and we must all follow our dharma. Dharma must dictate
the pursuit of Artha and Kama to achieve moksha. As far as the relationship in a
marriage is concerned the union is physical, physiological and spiritual only
then the marriage is successful. In an ideal relationship the physical act of
sex for procreation is a sublime duty of the partners. Sex for lust and physical
pleasure with one partner can also fall within the ambit of fulfillment of
desires if it is with mutual consent, in a spirit of giving and guilt free. If
this is absent then it is not dharma and is a waste of energy and is not in tune
with the universal consciousness. As we progress on the upward path of shreyas
we will transcend the need for such indulgences and both partners in a marriage
will accept true Brahmacharya. I hope my comments do not offend any one on this
forum. I humbly accept that I have a long path to traverse before i am in any
position to advise any body on this forum.
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Thu May 20, 2010 7:33 am
Jai Shri Krishna
Life teaches one that rarely is anyone ever satisfied. You are fortunate you have
experienced this early on in your life. This is the truth. Imperishable can never be
satisfied with the perishable. this is everyone's experience, but they continue to live
Swami Sharnanandji Maharaj when asked Why must we give happiness to someone?
he replied -
If you have taken pleasure from someone, then you become indebted to them, therefore it is inevitable to
give enjoyment to others. The one who gave you happiness, has taught
you to give happiness. You cannot give happiness to the donor of
happiness. Therefore giving happiness to those that are suffering is
freeing ourselves from indebtedness.
Hope this helps - Radha Rani
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Thu May 20, 2010 6:18 am
Dear Raj Kumarji and Geeta
Your personal behaviour is governed by the
geans and chromosomes inherited from your ancestors. Yours and your Life
Partner's genes and chromosomes are different and hence the conflict.
Your family responsibility is your first duty. She does not want the
sensual pleasures for all the 24 hours of the day. Spare some time for
your spiritual activities and try to involve your family also in that
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -------
|| Ram Ram ||
Dear Raj Kumar Ji, thank you for the question!
Thank you for taking the bold step in letting this forum know your major personal issue, even though this is a very difficult problem but you are not alone, many families face similar situations. In my humble opinion it is difficult to advise through e-mail due to the complexity of a personal situation.
I am happy to learn that you have interest in Ramayana and Gita, the studying and knowing about these is time well spent. But the real benefit is when our objective becomes to imbibe these principles in our life. The scriptures are like a mirror for the mind. God resides in everyone's heart, we will be sees Him only when our mirror is clean (or when the mind is pure).
An advice from a saint, guru or a wise elderly person could prove to be very helpful. Based on Swamiji Maharaj's teachings, please reflect on the following thoughts:
1). By God's grace no one gets a problem which he or she is not capable of solving even though may be seem very difficult. Pls. have courage that this situation can be managed.
2). Swamiji Maharaj points out in the introduction of Sahak Sanjivani in Hindi that whatever situation good or bad we happen to get can invariably help us in progressing on a spiritual path.
3). Bad situations are unwelcome by everyone but they do teach life's hard lessons. Many great men went through a lot of suffering. There is natural dispassion towards the world.
4). Our scriptures lay heavy stress on adhering to Dharma at every stage of life, may it be at any level, individual, family, society, national or Manav Dharma. We do not need to search for what our Dharma is, it is given to us in terms of circumstances and situations unsought for.
5). In Snatana Dharma the life span of 100 years into four stages or Ashramas - Brahmcharya (Student, 0-25 years), Grihastha (26-50 years), Vanprastha (51-75 years) and Sanyasa (76-100). These days, life expectancy for average person is less than 100 years, so in your case it is the beginning of Vanprasha ashrama, which means slowly leaving the ties, developing detachment, doing service to others (including immediate, larger family and socity without any expection
6). Our scriptures four Pursharthas, Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha. This order is very meaningful, Dharma is first here, which says that Artha (Wealth and possesions etc.), Kama (Worldy Desires) should be according to Dhrama then the Mokhas is assured. The individual initiative effort in terms of new actions is required for Dharma and Moksha while for Artha and Kama, it is mostly governed by Prarabhda (fate). Swamiji Maharaj advises - A Sadhka should be happy with what comes as a result Prarabhda and he should be careful about new actions. Our righteous duty is to protest the right of others on us. Our duty is not judge how others are performing their duty (Exception - our duty to children).
7. Our scriptures say very clearly, the objective of physical union (in Grastha Ashrma) is to promote progeny only and it is not meant to derive sensuous pleasure. If we want to pursue the spiritual path, it is a must to follow the restraint.
8). A sadhka on a spiritual path knows very well about the mission of life, it is the union of individual consciousness with the supreme consciousness or Paramatma. The joy we derive by association with the worldly objects is transitory. It also has a place in our earlier phase of life. If we do not graduate from this stage, we have to continue to stay in the cycle of birth and death.
9)..To keep calm, content and happy in the midst of what comes is the austerity of mind (Tapas) Gita 17-16)
10). One of the best away to work on a problem is team work, with mutual understanding and respect. When there is good communication in relationships, there is no problem which cannot be solved, employing softer emotions also helps. A person's heart can be as soft as butter or as hard as a rock, depending upon how we approach it.
11). If nothing seems to work, with a sincere heart call out on God for help. We all know that the worldly mother cannot ignore a crying child and then how can the Divine Mother not come for help!.
|| Ram Ram ||
Date: Wed May 12, 2010 11:06 pm
At the same time, wastage of a single drop of semen for fun is a terrible sin. Gruhustha Ashram does not mean for a sadhak to be an entertainment place. So long as you are doing your DUTY , you are entitled to indulge in carnal pleasures, but not just for FUN. Procreation- giving birth to children is your DUTY, once you are in Gruhustha. Husband has a right to seek cooperation from wife and vice versa. It is your DUTY to then indulge into physical union. That Kaam has been stated to be a 'vibhuti' of Paramatma. (BG 7:11). There is nothing wrong in that.
But other than that....Scriptures do not permit free play. What is the difference then between a human and an animal? Even animals have appointed seasons to indulge into physical union. They mostly do it in secret (except perhaps a dog and a bitch). A Sadhak therefore is entitled to indulge into necessary austerities in this regard. You have not been given human birth to indulge in sensual pleasures. Hell is the outcome for such pleasures. If it is for procreation- no two opinions that it is your duty. But if it is just for FUN or for meeting demands of body...it is not your duty to fulfill that always. Can such demands of body ever get satisfied ? No ! A human has to renounce them ultimately, such desires can not be fulfilled by consumption.
You can not please all around you, under the garb of DUTY. Your duty is what you CAN do, and what you SHOULD do.
Normally, a marriage is a bondage for a couple. Any sadhana does have a sobering impact on the other. It MUST. Hence talking out with spouse, fixation of common goals and cooperation are fundamentals of marriage. Who can run away where from this bondage? You have to go through the rigor , you have to stay put. Divorce - easier said than done. Divorce does not help in sadhana of a householder, it destroys everything in a fraction of a second. As a threat also it is dangerous. There are as many ways of getting Paramatma as are humans. You can always strive to correct your inner bhavas. If your better half or worse half is not in tandem with your approach ...it is her/his prerogative. You are concerned with your PERSONAL DUTY towards her/him only. If somebody gets corrupt merely because you are not doing what you should not be doing...you are not at fault and are not responsible. Each individual soul has its freedom and choice. You can simply do your OWN DUTY. You have no right or need to teach others a lesson, particularly when other has decided to take own course.
Such is human life. Gruhastha Ashram is not some fun place. It is an austerity in itself...here you and your sadhana , your concepts are put to acid tests...you are straightened out by Laws of Nature. Lord washes your eyes with tears till they are clean enough to behold the reality.
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
Date: Thu May 13, 2010 3:01 am
I am afraid, Shri Raj Kumar's dilemma is not genuine. I have replied to this earlier. I do not want to add anything in the form of advice. But my appeal to all the members is that REMOVE SUCH MISCONCEPTS LIKE ABSTAINING FROM PHYSICAL-BODY NECESSITIES IS NOT THE MARK OF SPIRITUALITY.
Date: Thu May 13, 2010 12:56 pm
|Relations Abstinence ... Digvijaya|
|The apparent pertinence on abstinence in this question for spiritual attainment is lopsided, I would opine. The notion "giving sensual pleasures as seva to my life partner for last 20 yrs" makes you as dependent as you could have been on the very sensuality as such. What bound you to give this "seva" to your life partner in the first place without which you would not have your daughters on whom you are worrying now? Actually, what obligated you to seek a life partner as such?? Answer is very simple ... you are trying a notional coating on some inherent desires and fears of your own using the so-called spirituality. Whether it is sex or any other crave ... you cannot win over it by sugarcoating the same with high sounding notions in the name of spirituality. Trust me ... higher the notions sound, tougher the associated sugarcoating would become even to resist, let alone surpassing the same!|
|Abstinence is to be practiced for attaining freedom and never to build notional bondage around oneself even in the name of spirituality or Satsang or Sadhana or religion or even God. We build relations in all the directions only to anchor oruselves to our notional identities we gain in the process and tie ourselves to the associated objects/notions imposing immobility on ourselves. It is the sense of immobility that drives us feel miserable in all the dilemmas, including this one, as we feel constricted. Having the core nature of being ever-mobile within, we obviously feel like fish out of water gasping for a breath in such self-imposed constriction. The tendency to build relations and identities continues in spite of changing the field of our actions ... even with the so-called spiritual seeking. |
|The idea of spirituality is to break open the coccoon of notions and snap the bondage that keeps it intact to let go oneself to be universally free. Abstinence is one powerful tool to help oneself toward that. But, if one builds a coccoon out of the very tool to build a notional cage for oneself, it cannot help anymore! It is an axe to be used to snap all the chains, ropes and threads that bind one into a coccoon enroute. If it is used as a tool to weave more webs around oneself ... it cannot help anymore!! It is a brush to be used to cleanse off all the masks we have painted on ourselves in the name of emotions within and relations around. Instead, if it is used to apply more paints to make more masks ... it cannot help anymore!!! Abstinence is a tool to attain THE ULTIMATE ... it is not THE ULTIMATE by itself! Just like any other tool, an abused tool or path or method would leave the seeker wandering around in circles around and around in a whirlpool of ignorance.|
|Abstinence is the weapon to facilitate Digvijaya, to win over all the emotions (Dik, directions within) and the relations (Dik, directions around) systematically. Abstinence is not to create a void within to be filled with some alternative it is to FILL the person within to one's completeness so that one need not depend on anything else to be. Only one who is FILLED to one's completeness at one's core can win over the otherwise invincible web of desires and fears.|
|Therefore, my suggestion is that we shall adapt the powerful tools such as abstinence with care, caution and truthfulness.|
Date: Wed May 12, 2010 2:40 am
Dear Sadaks & Sri Deepti & Vasundara,
Try NOT to listen two side stories. Have trust in Mr.Raj Kumar. Presuming that he is telling false matter is itself is Wrong. Sadaks should always be positive in thinking. Now listening to Mr.Raj Kumar wife complaint is only going to be like TV Mega serial, which is forbidden to earnest Sadaks. Spend more time in Namasankreethan. Just reply and forget- instead remember Sri Ram day in day out. Listening two side complaints will deviate your path to liberation. You are going to get attached to stories. There were great Rishies who abstained from pleasures for years. Their wives least complained. But the Rishi new his Dharma created a floating palace in the air with much better modern facilities of today and gave pleasures to his wife. But the Rishi was never attached to pleasures while giving company to his wife, but did his part. Source: Srimath Bagavath. Woman are blessed with much powerful senses to control even SUN and the universes by their chaste behaviors. Even Tri moorthires (Bagavan Bhrama-Shiva_
Dear Raj Kumar,
Two of the great elders of this Satsanga , Brother Vyas and Sri Sathyanarayan, have given good advice and insight, how lucky you are, hang in there!
Now, to me it seems also that you apply meditation to your practice.
But first I will stand back and say right! Lost interest in the world, no longer interested in sex! Hmm you are depressed Brother!
But bear with me; in the West people often think that by launching off on the boat of meditation, they will glide across the sea of tranquility, not realizing this boat needs a rudder and a firm hand, without a firm destination, this boat can take one into the slough of despondency, stormy oceans, dark fogs and so on. The Supreme Lord said to focus on Him when one meditates.
Meditation is a vast subject, but many things can happen; physical and emotional changes can happen , chemical changes can occur, even in the brain, this is not all bad at all, but one must know how to deal with them !
Believe you me many mystics know these things, and have given guidance, ' The Dark Night of the Soul', is a commonly used term in the west, it however does herald the dawn of Divine Love.
Here is my advice. Look deep into your heart, not your intellect, look deep, see the love that dwells there pure as pure can be, ask your wife to be there when you do this, tell here not of lofty views that you have, but admit you are a child who is lost, because you are!
Surrender can be hard to do, but in purity easy to do. Understand that the wife you have can help you. As maha laksmi Dasiji said you may need guidance of some pure soul.
Maha laksmiji a minor point, there are saintly souls all over the world, never loose sight of that!
Date: Wed May 12, 2010 6:30 am
My sadar pernam.
In my opinion, you have chosen the path of Karm-Yoga. Accept the path of Karm in its entirety. The body, which is the chariot of life has a role to play. Your positive relationships with your spouse will make the journey more complete and enriching.
I would also mention that you have to look inside yourself to confirm that you are not hiding behind this religious path or religious teachings. And the problem is something else.
It is easy to blame others for our weaknesses and harder to face them.
If medical help can fix the issues that you are describing donât be afraid to seek those.
Finally, I do commend your self-less service to and love for humanity. This is the path of salvation by Gita.
I would also mention that I am just a student of Gita and only understand parts of it.
Jai Shri Krishana.
Date: Wed May 12, 2010 12:16 pm
A phase of Gruhashtha is harder than a phase (ashram) of Vaanprashtha/ Sanyaas. When you took decision of getting married, there was a resolve/decision/
Sir ! I have a Question. That elementâ¦ which you were searching and to get which you left me and an infant child mercilessly like a thief , was that element not there in this home.
Gautam replied: That element you are talking about was ONLY in this home and no where else, but had I not loitered outside, I would not have understood this reality. !!
A Story, not very true perhaps, but it has a point to prove. You can't take shelter of sadhana like that. 'Shruti' (Scriptures) do not favour you nor Yukti nor Anubhooti. You are not supposed to be a Sadhu at this age. When Eknaathji Maharaaj left his old Grand Mother and went to a Guru for becoming Sadhu, the Guru believed him. But when Guru came to know of his dereliction of duty , he wrote a message to Eknaathji... " Ekka ! Wahin Ruk Jaana" ( Eknaath, where ever you are at present, stay put there only). Eknaathji at that point was on the way in forest going to pilgrimage when message reached him. And he....sat there in the middle of jungle only, did not move an inch after getting message of Guruji. Stayed there only. Right there only where message was received by him. Later at that place only his grand mother reached, his home was built and till his grand mother breathed her last, he remained there only. Was he not a sadhak?
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
Sex is a part of life. Chastity should be observed in the first 25 years. The next 25 years is for married life. Next 25 years for spiritual pursuits with wife. Only the last 25 years is for sanyas means being alone. By not fulfilling your wife's maritial and conjugal rights which is your duty you will not gain spiritually. In fact sex is no bar to spirituality. Conversely chastity is no guarrantee of spirituality.
From: Hari Shanker Deo Date: Wed May 12, 2010 12:14 pm
Tue May 11, 2010 7:16 am
I'm putting down my humble opinion here. To start with, I find that you have
created a strong limitation for yourself when you say "I can compromise on every
point except to indulge in sensual pleasures.". What else is there for you to
compromise? It requires time to come out of that mindset, but I feel if you want
to save your marriage, you have to be willing to come down. Buy time from your
wife. From your spiritual point of view you think you are compromising heavily,
but from her worldly point of view she will be thinking she is compromising
heavily. There is nothing wrong with you, there is nothing wrong with her. You
have taken abstinence from sensual pleasure too seriously in a circumstance
which does not favour it. You might want to focus on other aspects of
spirituality and come back to total abstinence much later. It is not a
compromise and there is nothing for you to feel guity. Nor are you doing any
kind of sacrifice. Everything is fine and you need to take time and do some
All the best.
Tue May 11, 2010 2:10 am
Gem of an advice by Vasudev Sathyanarainji. Basically, sadhana does not mean throwing away of mundane pleasures or not taking any indulgence. It is not in your hands to consume worldly pleasures or not consume worldly pleasures. BHOGA is subject matter of PRARABDHA and not PURUSHARTHA. Can you stop cool breeze passing through you? Can you stop warm heat wave touching you? Sadhana is not abstinence
sadhana is NOT taking selfish interest in the happenings around you. Sadhana is not indulging in to sensual pleasures for getting any enjoyment out of it. Sadhana is neither liking them, NOR DISLIKING them. Getting aloof from them. If YOUR DUTY NECESSITATES indulgence into it, then you MUST. It is not that Great Saints do not eat say Laddoos. They eat, they experience the sweetness of it but they are indifferent to it
they are not attached to it
they DO NOT GIVE ANY IMPORTANCE TO IT ! Hence once you understand that I DON'T LIVE FOR SAY SEXUAL DESIRES, or ONCE YOU HAVE ELIMINATED YOUR INSIDE DESIRE /ATTRACTION TOWARDS SAY SEXUALITY
YOU ARE OUT OF IT. Thereafter your indulgence into it to say for DHARMIC / DUTY reasons
is a sadhana in itself. Just As : What is wrong in being rich? Nothing, but it should be through justifiable means. Similarly: There is nothing wrong in indulging into sexual activity with your better half, to make her happy and pregnant
.CONDITION : It should be for others, not for your own pleasure. For you it should merely be a DUTY
a DRY DUTY. Nothing more than that. BUT IF , you do not see any purpose behind the demand like Procreation etc
you are entitled to apply brakes. Not a DROP SHOULD BE WASTED FOR FUN. Hence, I requested you to find out the real reason behind the insistence.
These threats of divorce, these fears of her getting corrupt, these apprehensions of your daughters future
.they are all merely worries which you are unnecessarily carrying. If she becomes corrupt, you are not answerable to any one, provided you never failed in your duty. Your daughters' marriage etc is in the hands of God , you can only do your duty, when occasion arises. Marriages are made in heaven. When appropriate time will come, appropriate match will present himself before you. Matches for your daughters are already born, and are in this world only. You are not aware. Hence do not worry a bit on that count. If inspite of your agreeing to genuine demands
she insists for divorce..Say AS YOU WISH MADAM ! It is easier said than done.
BUT remember: Sadhana is not running away from world
sadhana is remaining in the world and getting detached at self level (inside) from them. Physical indulgence is not that important. Gita clearly says that those who physically abstain, but by mind contemplate about worldly pleasures are DAMBHEES ( Hypocrates). Hence do not give more importance to physical connections/
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
It is sad that some sadhak can write such words, "Not Even God can reform you"
and mentions his name as 'Krishna' . This remark I found in one of the messages
appearing below on this board. In fact, this Mr.Krishna's message smacks of
total EGO. I am sorry to point out this. Let me also clarify the message does
not have anything to do with me, but I felt sad that somebody is seeking
guidance and this person uses such a foul or arrogant language.
God Bless this Mr. Krishna.
Tue May 11, 2010 11:29 am
One sadak posted questions for clarity.
Q1. Who has been living spiritual life? What is spiritual life? What is spiritualitya?
Sprit is called SAT in Sanskrit. One who is getting united with is living spiritual life. One living in SAT Dharm is called spiritual life. One who has attain SAT is spirituality.
Q2. Who feels blessed and reads daily Geetha? One whose a very little past Karmas and has blessing of the past.
Q3.What is the purpose? To realize Sat.
Q4. What is the understanding created in 20 years about what has been read? If read once with Shardha it is enough. Arjuna heard Geetha but could not remember. Hanuman heard Geetha at the same time from flag of Chariot. He remembered perfectly.
Q5.What sadhna has done/not done for you? Sadana done with faith yields Gyan. Sadana done with distracted mind cannot yield any result.
Q6. Who is giving seva to whom? We are sevaks to Paramathuma. Disciple is sevak to Guru. Grahasta is Sevak to Parents etc
Q7. Was love and affection part of the seva? Bodily love is not Seva. Affection unconditional is Seva.
Q8. Who is disinterested in the pleasures? One who knows Geetha Chapter 14 sloka 20. Q9.Why this world was created? Created due to threegunas like SMS in air of each Jeeva. Q10.Why so many people around us? Once there were more animals than people. Animals indulge perfectly in seasons. Men is worst than animals, because he cannot refrain from it on Ekadasi day and like those days.
Q11.Who has understood the truth? Saints, Christ, Buddha, Sathya Sai, Tukaram, Etc Q12.who is trying to make her understand the truth? It is duty of Husband. Slowly without her knowledge saying going to Cinima, take her to Sat Sangh. A little doses of Sat Sangh will change.
Q13. Who is going through the agony and why? One who commits Sin. Like the brother disciple of Christ betrayed Christ- became Mad- Hung himself. Like Akkroor close associate of Sri Krishna, robbed Semanthaka mani (Diamond)
Q14. Who is putting conditions to sadhna? Your Rajo Gunaa.
Q15. Divorce can help sadhna? Surely for honest Sadak. Like Sri Ramanuja great Vaisnavite Saint left his wife.
Q16. Who is feeling the responsibility? You and Me.
Q17.who is the doer? Karmic account Chapter 14 of Geetha
Q18.Who is failing to concentrate on sadhna? The worldly attached one.
Q19. Who is living in fear of her getting corrupt? One who is associated with bad ones. Like Duryodhan with his uncle.
Q20.Who is prepared to compromise anything except.....? This I do not understand- What compromise for what.
Mon May 10, 2010 1:16 pm
Mon May 10, 2010 9:17 am
Sadhak Rajkumarji ! At the outset welcome.
Your dilemma is multifold and is regarding conflict of duty. Both of you are very young, and it is not very unusual in today's world to have such a conflict or desire or demand. However, you are always concerned ONLY about your own duty, conduct and deeds, when you deal as a "Householder(
Before we go into the main Q and determine your DUTY, let us first determine as to what is the form of your sadhana ( Which sadhana according to you is getting disturbed, and the disturbance there in is causing conflicts in you regarding your duty). You MUST BE a doing sadhana for Karma Yoga with an inclination towards Bhakti Yoga too and towards doing austerities and conducting yourself in accordance with dictates of Scriptures, and your OWN CONSCIENCE. That is the form of your sadhana ! (Correct me immediately, wherever , my assumptions are not correct. Do not hesitate there).
NOW: The first advice to you is that find out if there is or there is not an intention of your better half to get a son behind her insistence of forcing you ! If that is so it is your Duty to fulfill her demands. Answer would be slightly different if that is not so. Also let me know what are the other pleasures/desires referred by you she is insisting for. It is always necessary for a householder to do his duty towards other family members if they are rightful expectations. You MUST therefore determine 1 What You CAN do and 2 What you SHOULD do ! If the person to whom you wed expects something from you, it is your duty to impart happiness to them, PROVIDED you CAN and you SHOULD. The Sadhana reference is more in the ambit of what you SHOULD.
Do come back should you feel so. Else with present data and certain assumptions , I will give my views.
There are issues relating to threat of divorce, disturbance in sadhana, a householder phase of life, uncompleted family responsibilities and obligations (marriage of daughters) and concerns regarding future impact on fidelity of spouse all with reference to YOUR DUTY AS A HOUSEHOLDER AND SADHAK. We shall deal one by one.
We also have to address certain of your beliefs (say what is more conducive for sadhana- divorce or continuity etc) and future fears/apprehensions ; and the way you are assuming the very 'Sadhana' means. Striving as householder is different than striving as non-householder- whichever yoga/sadhan you may opt for !!! Hence if you keep touching on the postings and replying you will get more clarity on the way forward.
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
Mon May 10, 2010 11:25 am
A viable solution is understanding of truth........and the truth is that Ram, Krishna, Shiva all lived happily with their wives while being spiritual, while at the heights of spirituality.
Mon May 10, 2010 12:10 pm
Simple sir, just give her company as she wants as it is your disbursal of your Karmas. But here Sri Pawan Kumar Singhal posting helps. Perform action without attachment having in mind, that this is bodily affects not THE Athuman. If you understand this, then your mind is read by GOD, HE reads NOT your actions, says Sastras. One day your unwanted desire GOD will dispose. Here you see Vasudev in her also, may be she is lusty, but that lust is illuminated by both of your Karmas. There is NO lust in you, that God knows. Even while bed side with her if you say in mind Rama Rama (Mantra Permitted anywhere in any circumstances) cleanses you- Means your Athuma though your body is dirtied. Here try to get the real story of Pingala prostitute lady who was taken up by Sri Rama.
Regarding your daughter- Leave the thoughts that they are your`s. Leave it to Sri Rama and rest in peace. Teach them Vasudevam Sutham Devam------. This cleanses crores of Sins says the sloka. Sakubai, Andal, Meera were all told of Sri Krishna leelas in their young age, resulting in divinity. That is your duty towards them and their marriage DO you think it is in your hands?
Mon May 10, 2010 12:39 pm
Dear Raj Kumar,
First I have pasted this info below without comment for your reflection.
'........However in theological terms, both the Manusamhita and the Arthashastra state that, if a husband is impotent, a traitor, has become an ascetic or an outcast, or is missing for a prescribed number of years, then the wife can leave him without blame and marry again. The Arthashastra also declares that in other circumstances, divorce can take place only by mutual consent...'
I threw this question at my wife, I actually printed it, my wife perused it, and a short dialogue ensued.
The final outcome of our deliberation, is that you must consider the welfare of you children and wife, but recognize that basically you are an ascetic.
I have been informed that in some Brahman marriages, sex is for procreation only, certainly allows one to be ascetic while still living the life of a husband.
I am not a Hindu, and clearly by my name, I am not an Indian, so I am treading lightly.
There are/were many high spiritual societies, where marriage is/was not seen as an impediment to Liberation.
My wife said to me that I am pretty much an ascetic, I don't give myself labels, she's basically correct. It is a natural process of spiritual inclined people, but wisdom and Divine Love must be factored in. (Apply your Sadhana).
Mon May 10, 2010 7:16 am
AN AGE OF 44 IS VERY PREMATURE AGE TO BECOME A RECLUSE.AS PER SCRIPTURES AT THE
AGE OF 50 ONE SHOULD START TO PRACTICE "SANYAS DHARMA"IN THIS CASE THERE IS
DESIRE OF ONE OF THEPARTNER .IF ABANDONED THERE SHALL BE PROBLEM AS PER THE
STATEMENTS. THE HUSBAND SHOULD TRY TO MAINTAIN LIFE PEACEFULLY BY COOPERATING
WITH HIS WIFE SO THAT FAMILY LIFE WILL REMAIN PEACEFUL AND TAKE CARE OF
Mon May 10, 2010 7:30 am
call it INTEGRAL Spritual Life .
"mohan K Muju"
Shree Hari Ram Ram
Please also read "Grahastha mein kaise rahe?" from Sadhan, Sudha Sindhu starting at page 882 -
Thank you for being an instrument in helping many sadhaks.
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram
A list of all topics discussed in 2009 along with their links are at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/message/3189