Monday, August 31, 2009

[gita-talk] Re: WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAN / PARAMATMA ?

 

Shree  Hari Ram Ram. 

Sadhakas are requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.

This is to find if there exists that which is "not God,"  If it ever exists.

Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam

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NEW POSTING

shree hari:

ram ram.

respected avadhootjee!

by saying 'So, God is invested in everything but still HE exists separately as the Supreme Person or 'purushottam'' goes against your own words 'Thus there is nothing which is not God' said earlier in the same submission. NOTHING IS SEPARATE FORM GOD AS GOD IS EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING IS GOD (geetajee 7/19).

you say 'If we think that we are God that is false' also goes against your own words 'Thus there is nothing which is not God' please reconsider it.

again you say 'If we surrender to Krishna Bhagavan'  will you tell here who will surrender to whom and how? please support your statement with quotes from geetajee. also tell if this surrender doesn't take place will God stop loving God? see page 206 of book 'maanavamaatrake kalyaanake liye' line 10 swamijee said 'ek hee anekaroopase deekhataa hei aur anekaroopase deekhate huye bhee vaha ek hee hei'. God said (shreemadbhaagavata 2/9/32) nothing but ME, neither this nor that.

please support with quotes from scriptures what you say and then try to find if there exists 'anything that is not God'.

thanks and regards,

vuneet,

sarvottam.

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Zarre Zarre mein hai jhanki bhagwan ki...
Koi Soojh wali aankh hi pehchanti....
Why discuss a lot, truth itself prevails.....
The time u put in explaining can also be put to experience it....
Thanx
Raja Gurdasani
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Is there anything that is NOT God? (Is there anything that IS God?)

IS as well as IS NOT are our assumptions generated by our existential nature.
When upanishad says "Pratibodhaviditam matam" meaning "anything one could sense is THAT", it comes with an exclusive statement which emphasises how  the senses defy the presence of knowledge altogether toggling between the poles of known and unknown. The very notion of known and unknown (and hence, IS and IS NOT) is a projection of the senses on one's intellect which remains opaque on one side with frozen memories from the past reflecting the senses into one's
descrimination for observation. Therefore, every experience (Anubhava) remains a distorted reflection of the observations from one's memory (Smriti). The opaque memory itself is a collection of experiences in certain 'random' sequence as such. We often jump to conclude before validating the inherent limitations of
the very cognitive mechanism to ascertain the limitless. In my opinion, the
question "Is there anything that is NOT God?" is as futile as the question, "Is
there anything that IS God?"

Projecting either IS or IS NOT on "The God" is meaningless in my opinion. The
Omnipotent is IS, IS NOT as well as any other possibility that we can't even
fathom. Otherwise, it cannot be omnipotent! The whole teaching to me from such
expressions is to de-emphasise the notions habored in our perception. As a sage
taught me, THAT 'is not' till you 'are' and THAT 'is' once you 'are not'! The
'you' here is nothing but the collection of junked memories in my brain. By
dropping all the notions (i.e. dependence on the notions), 'one is' becomes 'one
is not' which reveals the fact that 'THE ONE IS' which encompasses all the
notions as well as their absence categorically! The more we excercise our
cognitive insistence, the farther we seem to be from THAT. The moment we drop
our insistence on the cognitive approval, THAT is revealed in the very cognition
as transcending its barriers altogether.

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |
Yamevaisha vriNute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa vivriNute tannogmswaam ||

Therefore, I suggest to close debates on the IS-ness and the IS-NOT-ness of THAT
which cannot be grasped by either IS or IS-NOT as they both are encompassed by
THAT in their origin as well as at their boundaries. Just like a person captive
within a box cannot fathom what the box looks like, one can never determine the
know-how of THAT which encompasses all the existence we know as well as that
beyond our very knowability.

Pratapji's notes are very valid. THAT is all-inclusive in essence and
all-exclusive in appearance. As soon as descrimination starts to dishtinguish
things from one another, THAT is not there as the very descrimination attempts
to deny THAT. In other words, one IS THAT when one is not because all
descriminations whither away when one is not. The good and bad are the creation
of the descrimination momentarily.

There is neither good and nor bad, only THAT. The very possibility of the
notions of good and bad is also made possible only by THAT. Everything remain as
is irrespective of our assumptions. Can milk become `not milk' just because I
assume it not to be? If not, is it not irresponsible of me to think that milk
becomes milk because I say it is milk?!

The projection of our assumption of good and bad makes us loose locus blurring
our focus on THAT. But, can we project our assumptions on anything that does not
exist? Therefore, everything in-spite of being labelled as per our whims and
fancies remain as is, as THAT alone.

I suggest study of "Rudra Prashna" from Yajurveda or "Vishvarupa Drashana" from
Bhagavdgita that helped me in this matter. May be, then, people find Pratapji's
comments more meaningful.

As The Rudra Prashna says,

... Nama ishumadbhyo dhanvaavibhyascha vo namo
Nama aatanvaanebhyah pratidadhaanebhyashcha vo namo
Nama aayacchhadbhyo visrijadbhyashcha vo namo
Namo'asyadbhyo vidhyadbhyashcha vo namo ...
Namo hantre cha haneeyase cha ...
Namah shivaaya cha shivataraaya cha ||

One who intends to shoot, the hands that trigger the bow string, the bow string
that flings the arrow, the space and air that transit the arrow, the arrow head
that pierces the heart, the heart that breaks, the body that stops its
functions, the one who feels dying … are all THAT, The Absolute, to whom I am
ever submitted.

Respects.

Naga Narayana

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This is in response to Swami Rupesh Kumarji -  my responses are in blue - Vineet Sarvottam

Jai Shree Krishna

 

SINCE YOU ARE QUITE INSISTENT ON GITA.... GITA  and HENCE I AM QUOTING GITA ...GITA only:

 

1 There is no God in IGNORANCE as Lord Krishna Himself has stated in BG 7 12 - NA TWAM TESHU TE MAYI ( I am not in them and they are not in me)! Is Lord Krishna wrong ? COME ON !! Dont tell me ignorance does not exist and only God exists....because if that is so why God talked about it ? This position is confirmed only in 7:14 !!

please read 'sadhaka sanjeevanee' page 493 second column last three lines. you are misunderstanding what swamiramsukhdasjee said there.

 

2. There is no God in GUNAS ! Because Lord says in 7:13 that fools do not understand that I am beyond GUNAS ! If He is beyond Gunas: How can He be in Gunas ? Read 14:19 also.

please read 'sadhaka sanjeevanee' page 493 second column lines 8, 9 and 10.

 

3. There is no God existing in idiots, moodhas , mohitas, as they do not recognise God because had there been Godhood in them they would not have remained ignorant ( BG 7:12/13/15/24/25: 9:11) misinterpretation doesn't mean idiots, moodhas, mohits exist as other than God. they think themselves other than God but THERE CAN'T BE ANYBODY OR ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD (BG 7:19)

respected Swami Rupesh Kumar is also God (Can he be otherwise? NO). Fault lies in one who considers God distant from self. please read book 'bhagvatpraapti sahaja hei' page 44 lines 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24.

 

4 There is no God existing IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD's JEEVAS because God has stated that NA CHAAHAM TESHWAVASHTHITAM and NA CHA MATSTHAANI BHUTANI in 9:4 /5. please read 'saadhaka sanjeevanee' page 606 second column lines 1, 2, 3. you are not getting it. all words are used for God. No word is in any language which is not for God as God was when words took birth.  Is God wrong? God is never wrong. Swami Rupesh Kumar is also not wrong. Nothing is wrong. But 'what exists other than God?" still remains to be replied. There is no God in Prakruti because He is beyond Prakruti. please read 'saadhaka sanjeevanee' page 475 second column lines 4, 5, 6. That Prakruti is His power only does not mean that He is there in it. if God is NOT that Prakruti,  when this Prakruti came in to existence and how? please don't take it personal as this Leela is very useful to all Sadhakas. He is causing it not residing in it ? please read 'maanavamaatrake kalyaanake liye' page 202 lines 1, 2, 3, 4. What do you say Mr Vineet ? who is asking whom?  

 

5 There is no God existing in DARKNESS ! where did this darkness came from if NOT FROM God?  God has stated that  He is TAMASAH PARAM UCHYATE ( BG 13:17) ! Is God wrong? No. How can He be in darkness when He Himself says that He is beyond it? will Swami Rupesh Kumar tell where did this darkness come from if NOT from God and when and how? please discuss this point in detail as it is the very root of discussions from respected Swami Rupesh Kumar.

 

6 There is no God in ASURI PEOPLE referred in Chapter 16. please support your statement with quotes i.e. verses. Because had God been existing in them then how they would have indulged into ....MAMATMAPARDEHESHU PRADVASHINTO BHYASUCHAKA  (16:18) ! please read it again. read 'saadhaka sanjeevanee' page 1027 central column meaning of the word deheshu and read second column lines 4, 5.  Any body who has God in Him can He do so YES, it is God's PLAY., Mr Vineet Sarvottam? Can you do so Sir ? STILL DOING AS PER GOD'S WILL. please don't take it ill, Swami Rupesh Kumar is also doing what God IS WILLING. please tell if Swami Rupesh Kumar can ever DO  ANYTHING THAT GOD IS NOT WILLING?

 

7 God states in 16:19 that He consigns ASURI people to hells again and again. God's PLAY. If God is existing in them, and Lord Krishna consigns them to hell is He not doing what is stated in 13:28? being entrusted with the script of God's Play to act like human being I am not able to supervise the Greatest Director of the Play. No comments here. but shall request you to go through the essay 'Description of the Undescribable' by Swamiramsukhdasjee.

Difficulty is we can't visualize God without removing what is not God from our sight which we can't as ALL IS GOD.

 

I have not scrolled through Entire Gita.  Kindly read carefully Vyasji's message from today. 

Swami Rupesh Kumar

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Hari Om

Satsanga has its divine impacts on each Satsangi. I am really humbled seeing how laboriously Pratapji has compiled his answers. I can imagine what kind of research, labour, brain storming , he might have done to write notes to this Divine Forum. I can see that he must have chosen each and every sentence carefully- drafted/redrafted/corrected. That is divine. That is Vasudeva ! Each and every minute spent by him has to be calculated by Mr Chitragupta (A chartered accountant sitting in the heaven, maintaining karma diary of all Jeevas) as towards Paramatma (BG 12:10) It is an example of total engrossment towards Satsanga. We all must give Pratapji a big hand. He is indeed very dedicated. This is sadhana !! Dear Sadhaks- this is called Sadhana !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Hari Om

Sadhak Avadhootaji has given a beautiful message. Indeed, divine!

When any topic is raised on this Divine Forum, it has to lead us to logical conclusion. That God is everywhere and in everyone is a TRUTH which was abundantly made clear by every sadhak in the beginning itself. Still there was an insistence that Quote Gita and tell "What is not God" !

You see, when you talk of Gita, then you should analyse that alone. I said there is no God in ignorance and QUOTED Gita. Now if there is any objection to it, an explanation is warranted as to how there exists God in ignorance. It is explained by Swamiji Himself that "NOT" (not existent) cant be part of 7:19 realised Mahatma. The world exists in the eyes of Jeeva only , and not in the eyes of God or a realised soul. It makes no difference whether the earth gets emptied or remains populated. It is goal of God as well as of the Laws of Nature to drag Jeeva towards that "empty state" viz God only.

But so what? Why did the deliberations begun? To suggest what? Even Swamiji's quotes insist on elimination of inert/ignorance, for there is no God/ very existence there. There cant be a distinction between "consciousness" and "existence". Both mean "SATTA MATRA" (To Quote Swamiji) ! Already two other distinctions similarly made, say between "mithya" and "asat" and between "What" and "what is in that what"are floating around.

Ultimately, we will have to settle down to what I wrote in my very first message to this Q - IT IS ALL A MATTER OF ACCEPTANCE ! If you accept His presence, He is there. If you dont, He is not there- of course vis a vis the acceptor/rejector !! Entire Gita is built around this acceptance / rejection ! If all is God, then when God punishes an asuri soul by throwing him again and again to hell (BG 16:19), then is He not committing the crime indicated in BG 13:28 (Hinsatyamanatmanam) ? What is then the regret of God as stated in 16:20? Hence we all should be focussed.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Jai Hanuman

Brother Sathyanarainji. You don't enjoy food without there being salt / chutney in it. If everything is sweet, there is a threat of becoming diabetic. Hence let us continue fighting. This Satsanga is a mixed menu. Believe me, I like to pull legs not to offend but to make deliberations lively. Pratapji is 100 percent right. Please do not think that we are guided by ahankaar or superiority or any other complex. You enter such divine forums only after shedding ego. Sadhaks are we. But at the same time humans. PARASPAR BHAVANA OF LOVE AND COMPASSION is there in all of us ab initio. To the inner self a fault should not be visible. How among all you saw a fault? Pls enlighten.

Pratapji' s writings are always keenly awaited by us. He has remarkable clarity on CONSCIOUSNESS. But I somehow enjoy wit . Afterall Satsanga need not always be DRY . There has to be debate, agreements, disagreements. None of us is realized. But we have desire for the same. In the process a lot of SAT comes into experience.

In this Satsanga we have to rise above good and bad. Sorry, Pratapji, if you felt bad. Fight between us must continue. There is divinity and VASUDEV in that also. Let us broom in everything together. But fight we must continue. Where is enjoyment in Satsanga without fight- pure innocent fight?

By the way, so as to continue fighting (this time it is genuine, Pratapji) ... QUESTION OF FACT.... Pratapji - in which "translation" of Holy Gita (7:12) you DID NOT read the meaning of " na twaham teshu te mayi" - as "Neither do I exist in them, nor do they in Me" ? Pratapji- any other translation is WRONG !! Quote the book from which you lifted an OTHERWISE/DIFFERENT (as quoted by you) translation, and after quoting, stop believing into it !!! After all, this time it is purely a matter of translation of Sanskrita into English. I invite Brother Mike also to share "translations" of the above verse available with him. I invite ALL SADHAKS to share with this Divine Forum "translations" available with them quoting the books/publication etc.

Madanji Kaura? Shrikant Joshiji ??  what your Libraries say on 7:12 ? Holy Gita has over 5ooo translations.

Let us continue  !! Bliss has to be bit superior only to that. Not very largely different. Afterall, there is INNOCENCE and SELFLESSNESS here too !!! Compassionate and Egoless we have only to accept in ourselves. Once we are sadhaks they flow naturally unto us. If we are lacking, Satsanga brothers and sisters will forcibly put us on course. During last one year, we can count as to how many of us have had their egos put into place. Hence keep fighting.
By the way, so as to continue fighting QUESTION OF FACT.... Pratapji - in which "translation" of Holy Gita (7:12) you DID NOT read the meaning of " na twaham teshu te mayi" - as "Neither do I exist in them, nor do they in Me" ?

Here is Jee Jee in elements ! Come on !!

After all, this time it is purely a matter of translation of Sanskrita into English. Come on ! Let us fight and have fun !! Bliss has to be bit superior only to that. Not very largely different. Afterall, there is INNOCENCE and SELFLESSNESS there too !!!


Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear aspirants of gyan and vigyan;

In chapter 9 verse 4 shree Krishna says '
mayaa tatam idam sarvam', that HE pervades the entire universe. Thus there is nothing which is not God. BUT we should not think like those of the impersonal Mayavaad camp that God has become the tiny jiva or soul. The idea is that if you have a piece of paper and tear it into many small pieces, the original paper is gone and only the small particles are left. That is not the case. The universe is produced from God's (Bhagavan's) achintya Maya-shakti. The Lord has multi-energies and Jada-shakti or Maya-shakti is just one such energy. From this energy matter is created and also destroyed.
So, God is invested in everything but still HE exists separately as the Supreme Person or 'purushottam'. This is stated also in the same verse,
mat-sthaanee sarva-bhutaanee na chaham eshu avasthitah'.
If we think that we are God that is false. We are part of God eternally. He is the supreme controller and we are always controlled, either by mahamaya or yogamaya.
If we surrender to Krishna Bhagavan then we come under His love and affection and if we surrender to Maya, which is also Krishna, since it is His energy, we come under the control of the three modes of material nature - goodness, passion and ignorance. It is like a loving father who sees that his child is naughty and therefore calls a tutor in to teach the child and reprimand him for any misbehavior.

Hari Om Tat Sat

Avadhuta

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
I am glad Satsang continues. I request other sadhakas to respond on recent posts by us, if they will. My use of Consciousness is to point to "ME"(Lord Krishna in Gita), Bhagwaan, God, Reality, Brahman, Absolute, not relative as all names are. If it is not helping sadhakas, I would be
happy to stop posting as I don't know how to bypass using IT.
No sense in wasting sadhakas time, I agree wholeheartedly.
All my posts on this subject already has answers to issues raised by Shashikalaji, and Vyasji, unfortunately they didn't convey the message I intended, it may be my inability to express through words.

Before I finally respond to their posts beyond what I have, I would say few things.

When one understands everything(no exception) IS Undistinguished Whole, Pure Being-Consciousness, and every name is false superimposition that withers away
as that name, upon inquiry, highest and absolute discrimination(viveka) has already taken place in such a one! To take one's stand or true identity as THAT, is jewel crest of viveka(Viveka chudamani). Names are Mithya-false, and not the Existence which is Immanent, Transcendental, permeating through that name and beyond! When something perishes, that something becomes one with its source, Consciousness, from which it originaed, from which everything originates and merges! Thus, it doesn't become nothing/non-existent ever.(Nabhavo vidyate Satah.. 2:16).
Names
end because they begin. Waves and Ocean has such relationship.

Moreover, we cannot experience any object, including body, world, dream, illusion! We do use the language such I saw-experienced rainbow, horizon, mirrage etc but it is not true.
The Only Experience we have is Being Conscious of whatever (as thought).
Body, tree, dog, or rainbow etc; objects we see don't tell us what they are! Such objects don't participate in our naming them.
Such objects are our Subjectivity-Consciousness!
They are only thought-objects, not "objects in themeselves"! A dog  or even body we call "mine" is thus a thought in Conscousness. Thus "we" have to be Consciousness!  It is the
only connection we have with world objects. Experientially they are Consciousness-Awareness only, not gross- inert, but subtle stirrings in Awarenss stream(chit-vritti).There is no object or a thing in our experience! This is the very reason why Vedanta says "Everything is Consciousness", God, Divinity, Vasudeva. Very important to understand that.
Now when we verbalize such experiences, we bring in subject that sees or experiences, and object experienced(duality in mind only). Unfortunately real subject is mistaken as body-mind organism, instead of Consciousness as the only Subject for all of us. Object is a concept, name, relative to one another to distinguish for practical reasons(Vyavharanaya), not reality etc. In fact all names are His names only, as they point to Consciousness, HIM! Vasudeva Sarvam is THE Understanding in the mind that used to see names as real and was attached to them before. Outside objects continue to be what they are, rainbow, mirage, circle of a running fan, horizon, are seen for what  they are by Saints and Sages just as by an ordinary person. They have lost power of attachment over Realized one, on the contrary, they help remind him/her of God everytime they appaer!
In this scenario, how can anything be not God?
Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

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Dear sadaks,
Sri Shashikala have you Sat? If so please describe for benefit of Sadaks.
Do you know that circle caused by fan is illumined in mind by Athuman? Suppose one is dead and his (Body) is lying under fan, does he see the circle in case his eyes are open or does he feel the breeze? Then what makes the total body organ function in 3 stages of awakening, deep sleep, dream stage? Something illumines sight, senses the hearing,  senses the touch Etc.
Conscienceness is experience and Asat automatically vanishes, like darkness goes when light comes. One cannot throw out Asat. Another example our Sant often say. Snake and the rope. Pot and the mud. When Paramathuma fills in Asat goes automatically. It is HIS grace NOT your will power. Many Sant failled in their attempt and realized to surrender after many years.
This is a line in posting of Sri Sasikala, ""So Mirage is Sat? Ignorance is Sat?? Maya is Sat !!"". IS MAYA SAT? Typing error, since mind disturbed. Why not see Vasudev in Pratabji instead of advising him? He as NO differant from you or me. Each sentence of Sri Pratabji is valid as Vasudev in him has illuminated like that for Sri Sashikala to misunderstand
""With the inert body etc.  only the worldly work can get done"" thus said Sri Rama SADAK. Yes the body given for one is to do his karmas in the world. The question is how. When Arjuna thought he is going to do war, it was wrong. But when Bagavan removed that sense of "I-ness", it was karma of differant purpose, and Arjuna does not get the sins of war.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING MISSING BETWEEN SADAKS ARE PARASPARA BAVANA OF LOVE AND COMPASSION-- NOT ARGUMENT- NO IOTA OF EGO- TOTAL HUMBLENESS THAT OTHERS ARE MUCH SUPERIOR IN KNOWLEDGE THAN ONE. May be the postings are of ignorance, (Like Sri Vasudev Pratapji said about fan circle) but that circle too is part of that VASUDEV SARVAM. It has to experienced not conveyed. 
 
""In ignorance God does not exist"" in posting of Sri Vyasji. Like said above -Rope or snake,  pot or mud. Asat is illusion and SAT is ever remaining. But if illusion was not there, everyone on earth will see only SAT and will become totally silent, get Mukthi, make the earth empty. NO theory of Karma effect. Only because of Karma one comes to this earth, like Jaya &Vijaya of Vaikunt, Nala & Manigoop of Ganderva Lok. Where can Bagavan provide a place to fullfil our Karmas. Only Earth. Pardon me Sadaks where ever I may be wrong.
Jai Sri Krishna.

B.Sathyanarayan

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PART 2

Hari Om

But let me caution that Vasudev Sarvam is best adopted as an "acceptance" only. It is a matter of "experience" (anubhuti). In that "acceptance" - DOOSARA NA KOI or NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO is an essential ingredient. Because you may have to search him also (BG 15:4) beyond "asat" (BG 14:19 r/w BG 15:18). That is possible only when you become "asang" (disconnected) with asat (BG 15:3). Seeing "beyond asat" (BG 14:19) is also "disconnection with Asat" ("Yoga"- BG 6:23) and "connection with Sat" ("Yoga"- BG 2:48 r/w BG 13:27).

Seeing "beyond" something necessarily has to presume existence of that thing !! Hence you first recognise Asat to be existing.(BG 7:4- I have 2 Natures- Para and Apara)! Asat (Apara) exists there because of acceptance ("dharyate") of asat (BG 7:5- Yayedam "dharyate" jagat). In that Asat (Apara) ; God does not exist.

This wrong perception/ acceptance; that Asat is existing and binding; is called IGNORANCE/AGYAAN/AVIDYA ! What do you say Vineetji?
Hence in ignorance God does not exist. Because in order that God is there in "something", that "something" must actually exist !! Mere "acceptance" does not make a thing existing "actually" ( if that is False/Mithya/Asat) This acceptance is wrong;sans God and does not lead you to Truth/Liberation ! You get "bondage" only in return.

But if you have accepted something to be "existing" and that thing is "actually existing" (Truth / Sat) ; then that very acceptance leads you to knowledge/experience/anubhava/ Liberation - Vasudev Sarvam- systematically.

First know that you are born "bound" by non existent ASAT. You start your very journey with perception/acceptance of existence of Asat. You MUST therefore at the outset recognise "asat" and then "know" that in that asat God does not exist. DOOSARA NA KOI !!

Hence- What is not God ? Asat is not God (BG 15:18) ! Ignorance is not God (Swamiji in Gita Prabodhani- 13:17) !! And hence God says : I am not in them; they are not, in Me. Here is something which has EVOLVED out of Him , just as from a living body (say sentient) , dead nails (say inert) emerge. Now that nail can not be said to be dead, but the fact is they are non living thing- dead. So they are living as well as dead. So God is Sat (sentient) as well as Asat(inert). (BG 9:19) That inert is not existing is a fact "unknown" to you experientially. You have to "know it"( taan viddhi- BG 7:12)- "experience" it; "realise" it . It cant be subject matter of inert mind/intellect/ego/body .Truth is "beyond" inert/ different from inert ! (BG 7:5) The very characteristics of "inert" (jad) is that "inert neither knows itself nor knows others" !! Thus, Self (sentient) Himself has to discriminate and "accept" or know the Truth- via NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO or DOOSARO NA KOI !!

These four stages in fact take you in an orderly manner to Vasudev Sarvam through different ways. From these stages / corners Yogas emerge. Need for Viveka or Vishwas emerges. The importance of "acceptance" emerges. The very spirituality emerges.

In conclusion, dont straight away jump to Vasudev Sarvam! It is a stage after "Liberation" !! Bhakti Yogi is "alaukik" ! He too "accepts" only first, "experience/knowledge" comes later- rather rarely . Recognise first the "bondage" of Asat (BG 15:2). The "existence" of Asat. "Know that" (BG 7:12) it is due to "acceptance" of Asat/ Apara (BG 7:4-5); ignorance ! Change/Purify/ Throw away the existing "acceptance" of Asat; to really "experience" Sat/Truth ! Liberate yourself first from Bondage ! Note BG 15:4 here. "Tatah padam tat parimargitavyam" - "Thereafter" a man should diligently seek for that supreme state, viz, VASUDEV. After what? After "asang shashtren dridhen chhitwa" - BG 15:3- Cutting down firmly rooted (wrongly accepted) Pipala Tree (existence of Asat) with the formidable axe of dispassion !! Why ? Because "karmanu bandhini" (born with bondage) ; born due to/ along with Wrong acceptance/ignorance/agyaan/association with Gunas (BG 15:2 r/w 13:21)
Vasudev Sarvam is not something that easy to come into experience. We should be very cautious in that. Very firm in our FRESH acceptance. Their 18:66 becomes an aid/help/way / path !! Why? Because there is distance between "acceptance" and "knowledge/experience/realisation".Veil of Maya/ignorance creates that distance. Surrender (BG 7:14/18:66) removes that darkness !! Surrender is "prior" stage to Vasudev Sarvam and is for removal of Asat !! Once you have experienced 7:19 what to talk of 18:66, entire Gita and not only Gita all Scriptures cease to be of any substance or importance to you !! You simply become SILENT !!

That leaves only one riddle to be solved. BG 13:12 - Na sattanasduchyate- He is said to be neither Sat (being) nor Asat (non-being). Again this gets merged into 7:19 ultimately. Any Q of distinction arises only when at least 2 elements exist. If God only is existing ; where is the distinction between Sat and Asat. NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO. All relativities cease ! Sat is in relation to Asat only. Here there is only an ABSOLUTE element- VASUDEV !!

Beautiful is Holy Gita , Dear Sadhaks ! I hope, Dear John you are getting clearer and clearer. Any Qs by Sadhaks are welcome ! It is a lovely topic !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Why in Gita 7:12 God stated ..... "They ( Gunas/asat) are not in Me, I am not in them" ?  Reason is that these Gunas ( for that purpose...entire ASAT / INERT) are perishable and everchanging and mortal. Had God been with them, with the change of ASAT, or with the death of Body ...God also would have changed/died ! Isnt it ?  What are sadhaks thoughts on this?   VILAKSHAN is the VAANI of GITAJI !  Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh Joshi 
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Dear Pratapji and Vyasji

Thanks for this wonderful conversation. It clarified lot of my doubt about this pippala tree(Maya prakruti) and more importantly how to detach it and ways to realize the supreme tattva "Vasudeva Sarvam".

Hare Krishna
Venu Gopal

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

What is not God ? This Q includes references of where does God reside and where does He not ! It has to include that. If it does not include , then how the WHAT is defined ? If you want Gita references then Gita talks of -  " Neither I am in them, nor they are in Me"- this language only. But then how does that impact the conclusion? Does SARVAM not include what is in a substance or what is not? How can you find SAT or God in MITHYA ? Unbelievable conclusion !! God is not RELATIVE. The element can not be said to be possessing duality. I think we cant take the stand that WHATEVER EXISTS IS GOD in isolation. VASUDEV SARVAM wants you to reach to GENUINE PURE IS . There is no Vasudev in inert. Vasudev is the platform on which inert is shining inspite of being IMAGINARY and hence NON EXISTENT. That EVERY INERT NEEDS SENTIENT TO SUPPORT ITS EXISTENCE, does not take you to Vasudev Sarvam. If ASURI SAMPADA is Vasudev, then why Scriptures are  advocating renunciation of it? Hence, I agree with Jee Jee that you have to apply CONSCIENCE ( VIVEKA) and not CONSCIOUSNESS there. These two are totally different elements. In VASUDEV SARVAM everything remains but you dont get bound by it and in your perception that thing is nothing but God. Hence next important thing is ACCEPTANCE.  I cant imagine ASAT being part of Vasudev Sarvam.

Shri Vineetji asked Sadhaks as to what is not God. Sadhaks replied as to what is not God. giving ELABORATE Gita references. Now he should respond  back. 

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh  Joshi

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Jai Shree Krishna

This Forum is a blessed one ! Beautiful responses from all corners. Pratapji should take this opportunity as being GOD SENT to correct on fundamentals. His statement that "Where one finds MITHYA , ONLY there one finds SAT/ GOD  " needs  a reconsideration by him. It is like stating whereever there is darkness, there is light. Funny becomes the concept !! NO ! It is not that naive- the creation of Paramatma ! The DUALITY does not exist in ABSOLUTE element. He should appreciate that everything is perceived under one umbrella- no doubt. But you have to purify yourself still by picking substance out of what is part of your experience and discard the balance. Hence Conscience is vital. 

Swami Rupeshkumar

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Jai Hanuman

Beautiful Jee Beautiful !! Sathyanarainji ! The association with Sat is indeed consciousness (anubhav). Per my understanding, whatever exists can not be God. Ignorance can not be God. Asat can not be God ! Proof ? Statements of Swamiji quoted by Questioner himself:

"Man's primary duty is to accept the Truth. Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT. This too is the Truth. To accept the Truth as Truth is acceptance of the Truth and to not accept that which is untrue (False) as false, that too is acceptance of the Truth.

As I understand it, it means "World IS NOT". Paramatma IS !! Hence God says I am beyond Asat (that which changes, inert, perishable, kshar ) - 15:17 ! That means World is not God!! Simple ! Hence out of consciousness , there is need of re-looking at world ! You have identified/singled out what IS NOT and not accept that as IS !! Sarvam khalam Idu Brahman- is different. That is after change of perception/acceptance of Asat as Asat , not brooming in both Sat and Asat as ONE under Consciousness !! Already in that consciousness , reverse acceptance is existing. What IS NOT is getting experieced as IS ; and what IS is not getting experienced !! That reverse acceptance IS NOT God !! Throw it out! Flush it out to find WHAT IS GOD !!

Now look at an extra ordinary thing, from the perspective of even Swamiji:

"There is one extraordinary point that by seeing "IS" one does not see the pure, geniune "IS" but by seeing NOT in the form of NOT, the pure "IS" is seen."

Hence, Pratapji, you have separate out NOT , which is very well and already a part of your consciousness ! Thus, rather than brooming in everything under umbrella of consciousness ; you need to do reverse in fact. Throw out of consciousness , ASAT- what is NOT !! Then PURE GENUINE IS will be experienced.

That is exactly Sathyanarainji said to you- consciousness is being with the Sat and not knowing or talking or teaching about the Sat ! He is right 100 percent! But your answer to him is not. Being with Sat is not "knowing" ; it is Truth. It is positioning, it is association, it is acceptance ! It is experience. Knowing is not being. Why Atma alone is consciousness? Inert also comes into your experience. Fear or anger also comes into your experience. You have to discard them, broom them out, because there is no God in them. They are Asat !

Here is a beautiful statement by Swamiji :

and this Essence (tattva) is in reality of the form of transcendental experience (anubhav) and "When non-existent, unreal is accepted as non-existent, then Essence in the form of Existence naturally remains AS-IS (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 61).

What does it mean? Accept non existent as non existent, then the real consciousness AS-IS emerges. Now tell me how it can emerge unless you renounce Asat or see beyond Asat or disconnect with Asat? Can you renounce that by brooming in or brooming out of your consciousness ? Hence per my understanding, one has to purify/change consciousness !!

How do you do that? Apply discrimination (Viveka) !!
So that is the case ! Hence Viveka is key, not existence !!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

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Dear ones, Namaste!
This is to our bahanji, Shashikalaji on her response to me:
On Fan and circle example: In an analogy or examples to illustrate vedantic truth-[principle], we  need to understand the inherent limitations imposed by the language. When we say snake is seen on rope in a twilight, it means rope is truth, and snake is illusion. We don't say oh ya, but rope also is disappearing! Same way Fan was before moving, it remains during movement and it is when it stops moving. Circle was never there, even while running. So in the analogy you have to stop here, and say Fan is sat and circle relative to fan is mithya! We continue to refer to it as Fan even when is running and coircle is seen!
If you want to take it further as you have, fan which is part - name of a particular existence(only in thought), goes back to its source, 5 elements which together constitute nature which has ultimate being in Brahman, the Undivided Wholeness of EXISTENCE, beginning-less, and endless(anadi).
So, what disappears? only a form, not sat. Vedanta refers to Sat and such Mithyas, and don't elaborate on Asat, a non-existent, so we don't need to deal with it, like horns of a rabbit. One can only deal with Sat and that which appears as a form which perishes away.
I still continue to say that wherever there is illusion, there only sat is also there, wherever you see Jagat, there only Ishwara IS, wherever you see ornaments, there only Gold is! This put us back on track rather than to look for Sat elsewhere!
If there is no consciousness, then how can you say such and such is illusion. Illusion - mithya (seen different than what it IS) cannot be validated without Consciousness!
Consciousness Itself is self-evident, and makes everything else evident as existence.
It is Chit of Sat-Chit-Ananda, God is experientially Consciousness, encompassing Mithya, Asat and beyond them! Conscience(Viveka) arises in Consciousness, where else can it?
Actually, even word Consciousness is concept only pointing to Truth, otherwise IT just IS, whatever IT IS! This Consciousness is not just some dumb existence, it IS COSMIC INTELLIGENCE, and yet it is what we all, together are, not individuals!
When I say mirage cannot exist independently from sat, it doesn't mean Mirage is Sat,  it means you cannot say mirage without being conscious of something which you call "mirage", not that sand, distance and heat of sun-light tells us "hey I am mirage"! The mirage is conceived by mind-memory from the perceived chitta-vritti modification (Consciousness conditioned as object) triggered by what is seen out there! Vedanta says objects perceived by Consciousness is at a zero distance from IT, is one with IT.
Your interpretation of my post is not true when you imply mirage is Sat. I have never implied Mithya is Sat, I say Mithya cannot exist outside of Sat. As a matter of fact nothing can ever exist outside of Sat which is Consciousness at the same time! See, when you unfold that mirage as the appearance of sand, sun and distance, you have already seen the truth of mirage, how can you throw away mirage even after discovering the truth? However, now the mirage cannot fool you, lure you, that is all Swamiji has been implying when he says to disconnect from mithya! Such disconnection is Realization!
I am such Consciousness, and as such everything is in THAT which I AM, nothing excluded!
Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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Radhey ! Radhey !!

Yes ! Under one Consciousness everything is encompassed...Sat, Asat, Ignorance, Daivy, Asuri  everything !! But so what? How does that lead to Vasudev Sarvam ? What is proved ? Where- ever  Mithya is there, God is there? If this is the conclusion, then it is definitely faulty.  Swamiji per my recollection has said that NOT (World) has to be accepted as NOT and not as  IS.   

A story narrated by Swamiji that some sitting on the banks of a river observed that water is flowing. The other person told him, why water is flowing only? The bridge is also flowwing. Those who are walking on the bridge are also flowing. What is not flowing/ going away? That is main characteristics of INERT ! Hence I agree that FAN is not BEING !!That apart, indeed Indeed Gita is an ocean.

Radhey ! Radhey !!

Nisha

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Narain ! Narain !!

Both the distinctions drawn by Pratapji , of breaking Asat into 2 parts ... one Mithya/False and other non existent Asat ; and of WHAT as against What is in or not in appear to be irrelevant and far fetched.  WHAT includes the the essence of it which essence can not come without taking  what is in it . This is confirmed by Gita. This Mithya/False , if that is only form/cover/veil over substance and hence sentient , then which other things are left to be covered in ASAT ? Can he give breakup of what is Mithya and what is Asat, giving a couple of examples under each head? His statement that wherever MITHYA is SAT/GOD will be ONLY found there.....defies logic completely prima facie. May be he has some extra ordinary beneficial cause behind that.. How that is possible ? Please enlighten.

Coming to the statement that WHEN ONE REALISES THAT ATMAN IS CONSCIOUSNESS AND CONSCIOUSNESS IS ONE EXPERIENCE THEN NOTHING REMAINS TO BE KNOWN - I am not clear asto how this is possible. I know that Atma is consciousness. Now how that makes me SARVAGYA - All knowing? How there generates only ONE experience thereupon. Gita does not support it. Gita says that EVEN in GUNATEET Mahatmas , the phases of Sat, Raj and Tamas come into their experiences. ( Read BG 14:22) . How then EXPERIENCE remains one?

Narain ! Narain !!

Naarad N Maharishi  

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Dear Ones, Namaste!
This is in response to Vyasji on his observations on my recent post.
Interested sadhakas, please bear with me for a while if you can. It is worth resolving issues raised before we close the topic at my end.
I think it is important to see asat as non-existence, cannot be perceived, don't need to deal with it, done with it as it doesn't exist. False or mithya, on the other hand, is in fact Sat, One Existence of all beings appearing as different named objects taken as real due to Maya or ignorance! This way we seek God in those objects, in the world, in the nature, animate or inanimate, because He is already hiding there as EXISTENCE.
Any objects such as stone or Dog have existence in Consciousness we all share, as stone or Dog don't know own existence, so each such existence is in/due to Consciousness. This means Consciousness(apparently inward) and Existence(apparently outward) are ONE Reality of all our experiences! We cannot be conscious and not existing or vice versa! One cannot say anything is false without first positing its existence!
"This is false" means "
this is(ISness
)" and "it is false as that name".
This brings another point home: There is Sat-Ishwara-God only manifesting as diverse nature, they are not two. Disconnecting or disassociating with perishable nature's objects is this understanding. Then only Vasudeva sarvameti is true because nothing else can be existing! "Harihi eva Jagat, Jagat eva Harihi". Upon this Realization, one cannot see anything but GOD. "Sarvam Khalu idam Brahman" says Upanishadas.
This is the mother of all Discrimination(viveka)!
BG 13:19(Prakritim purusham cha eva) says Purusha(chetna) and Prakriti are beginning-less(anadi). I can quote other verses of Gita!
Isn't it the reason why Nature(Existence) is worshipped in Sanatan Dharma? Many glorious hymns are written to adore God as nature. Besides, don't we feel so great when we find ourselves in Nature? when we see mountains, oceans, rain forests, animals, etc. we are elated, one with them! Should we not, because they are perishable as such?
Swamiji is telling us, to me, that objects are perishable, so don't be attached to them, hold on to them, you can't, even if you want to! See the truth of this and get free from them first.
This is the beauty of his message, once we are free, the same objects are now Divinity for us, as they were neutral right from the beginning representing GOD. We, in our ignorance, give them power they don't have to rule us!
The rest of Vyasji's points are covered in recent postings!
By the way BG 7:12 translates as "whatever beings are of Sattva, of Rajas,  of Tamas, know them to proceed from ME, still I am not in them,
THEY ARE IN ME.
  It doesn't say:"I am not in them, nor they are in me" in the verse.
This is like reflection exist in mirror, cannot exist without it, still mirror is not in it.
Smell exist in air/wind and yet wind is not in it! It is the contextual!
Finally God is everywhere,  in everything says scriptures, meaning that "God" and "everything" and "everywhere" is God only, not two!
In all humility and respects......namaskar.Pratap Bhatt

 

 

 

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PRIOR POSTING

Jai Hanuman

Pratapji Maharaj. How the illusion ends and not "being of the fan" ? How does "fan" exist ? If circle disappears, the fan also disappears. Where is the being of Fan? Does it not change constantly, even when not running ? Is it not constantly merging into non being/destruction? Is it not running (changing) even when not running and thus creating a different illusion than that of circle ? Hence your distinction of Sat, Mithya and Asat need be revisited and brought into line with only Sat and Asat- as Scriptures do ! You must take whole "inert" in one basket !!

Are we not "experiencing" bodies, things though Asat? Do we not "experience" dreams though Asat? Yes! But whether that is Truth? No ! Are we "experiencing" Sat ? Are we experiencing Vasudev Sarvam? No ! But whether that is untruth/false?

How "consciousness". (support or non support/ validation or non validation by Sentient) then can change the characteristics of Sat and Asat? Hence do not corelate everything with Consciousness ! (Otherwise, some body will again say... Hey Pratap, again the same thing) !! Here Conscience is vital not Consciousness. You cant answer all the Qs that easily by "Consciousness" which is nothing but "being" ! It has to encompass "non being" into it, if the existence of that non being is accepted by you as existing ! You must thus apply Discrimination there !! You must see beyond Asat to find Sat ! You have throw away validation/support theory on this paricular subject. That theory is vital else where, not here ! You cant see Sat with the help of Asat (not vice versa) ! You cant say - Wherever Mithya is, Sat is there ! Absolutely wrong! Conscience is still needed there! Clear? Ask Q, if not clear !!

You yourself said - "Mirage is my own imagination, but in Truth it is whatever it IS. Can it exist without Sat of sand and Sunlight? So mirage doesnt exist independently from Sat!" .

So Mirage is Sat? Ignorance is Sat?? Maya is Sat !! No ! You have to eliminate them before you realise 7:19 !! Whatever it is, cant be it is !! It is not that easy, Sir !! Support/Validation by sentient can be due to ignorance too !!

You have to rise above "Consciousness" Pratapji ! "Conscience" is the key

Why I am advicing so? Simply because "consciousness" is "being"/ "existence" / that which "really" IS !! If in that consciousness, asat is lying in the garb of sat , you have to throw it out ! You cant say: It exists and hence it is, and hence Vasudev Sarvam? Too easy !! Can it be that easy Sir ? You are talking about "Maya" of Daddy, the Great. "Durtyaya" (7:14) is that Sir! It is not some fun, if one decides to use intellect. You must use- Discrimination. Consciousness is of no essence there. That is the end not the beginning. At how many places in Gita you saw reference of Consciousness? Why did you need see? Think about it !!

You must see "beyond" Asat. You cant find Sat "beneath" Asat. You have to throw away/disconnect from Asat ! You cant succeed in that with theory you put forward of mirage or fan !! Re-read your message. Take each and every sentence and validate that with reference to Gita verses! You will understand. It is good academic exercise. Believe me, results will be eye opener to you. There is nothing wonderful that you answer every Q under the Sun with the stick of Consciousness. Why? Because it is impossible to do so! Why? Because consciousness encompasses the existence of Asat also !! When you realise 7:19 - Asat gets out of your perception totally, because you have nothing to desire out of it ! That is how it becomes "absent" not by merging by a broom of "consciousness" everything under the Sun, illogically ! !

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
This is so important that we must share points that seem different than learned Sadhakas!
This is to see where we differ if at all we do!
Vyasji says on John Forth's response "In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it?". With all the respect to him, I humbly submit that "whatever" exists is God. God cannot be dependent on something to exist first, something needs God to give it a freedom to exist as whatever name which is false anyway! John correctly points that temporary modifications happen in God(Divine), temporary modifications being mithya-false, (not asat which is ever non-existence)! God remains untouched even as "a thing" perish away to be another form/name! Names and forms are God's hide and seek game! He continues to play as long as He wants to, and then he throws them away and Realizes Himself in the form of Swamiji, for example!
God is the cause manifesting as effect in the world.
Basudebji has also explained it nicely this way as I understand!

With equally great respect I would say to Sathyanarayanji when he says "Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness."
Only when one understands "Consciousness"  deeply, experientially, one fulfills his purpose on this earth. I hope sadhakas see this in the spirit, I am saying and not just discard by saying "oh, Pratap is saying this same thing over and over!" Isn't it wonderful to answer all one's questions by just repeating the name of God!
When one understands Being(Atman) Is Consciousness IS God, and all there is as ONE Experience, nothing else remains to be known!
Conscience is not Consciousness in this context, please!
Then he says "Tree, animal etc  also lives. That is not consciousness."
Let alone tree and animal etc, all there is, IS Consciousness". (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman), says Vedanta!
Then he says "Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.". Right you are! Being with Sat is Knowing, because knowing is Being too! That which you are, you have forgotten, so to remind, you have to know who you are, you have to remove ignorance by Divine Grace, by hearing Truth from the lips of Gyani-Guru, such as Swamiji! 
Surrender(acceptance) happens in Understanding, not by ego-individual's effort!
Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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Hari Om

This is divine satsanga ! The messages from Pratapji, Ramchandra, Shahji and from Sathyanarainji are really worth reading. In fact Pratapji has desired me to elaborate further/ beyond my one sentence of last message: In ignorance God does not exist. This note is in deference to his request. He wanted to be corrected hence I am also taking liberty of correcting him on some points stated by him in his message. For the Lovers of Holy Gita, I have extensively referred BG verses in this message.Hope my 3/4 hour labour helps sadhaks.

Every that thing/body that changes is Asat. The world made of 5 elements and the mind, intellect and ego - of total eight elements is "actually" Asat/Inert (Apara-BG 7:4) different from Sat (Para) ; and that
Asat is "actually" non existent.(BG 2:16) This is key !

When you take this stand then only four stages referred in my last message merge into "Vasudev Sarvam"- BG 7:19 ! Hence distinction between SAT and ASAT is an example of "Conscience"/ Discrimination (VIVEKA) and not of "Consciousness". (CHETANA/EXISTENCE) . Hence there is no distinction between "asat" and "mithya/false" with reference to existence/consciousness. Both are part of Consciousness and both "exist" though due to wrong acceptance. Both Asat and Mithya/ false (distinction made by Pratapji) must be dealt as Asat(non existent) only ultimately. If you distinguish then again the key helps only through "non existence" route ! You cant proceed logically unless you club both as "asat". Thus, Pratapji, there is no need for such distinction.

Note here that Asat very well exists if you "accept" it to be existing. In fact you are born with that wrong "acceptance". With what otherwise a karma yogi or jnana yogi disconnects ?- ASAT ! With what a bhakti yogi connects?- SAT !! In that ASAT which is accepted by you - God does not exist !! WHAT IS NOT GOD?- Asat is not God !! ( I am beyond Asat-BG 15:17)

In this connection the following verse is very important -

BG 7:12

Whatever entities are born of Sattva, of Rajas and of Tamas (the mode of inertia or ignorance) , know them all AS EVOLVED from Me; yet still neither I am in them, nor they are, in Me.


Here note the progression, logical steps: between what gets evolved out of God and thereafter in what He exists / does not exist or what exists/ does not exist in Him.

Something may evolve out of Him and still He may not be existing/residing in it !! What is that in which He is not residing ? - ASAT ! WHAT IS NOT GOD? Asat is not God !!
What has evolved out of Him is existing (out of ignorance actually) , but He is not in that; and that is not in Him. Hence you MUST disregard that. What do you say Vineetji ? Hence, Pratapji, here again your premise that "What is not God" is different than "What exists in Him or in what He does not exist" needs revisiting.

Why ? Because, You start your journey with very acceptance of existence of Asat viz What is not God ! Whatever you accept wrongly is not God - AS A LAW !! Hence, Gita also starts journey keeping in mind a Jeeva's that wrong "acceptance" state only. Once you start with acceptance "What is not God"(Asat); the residency issue is next logical consideration; and that cant be distinguished inter se, as you have attempted to do !!

Vasudev Sarvam should not be straight made a subject of knowledge- as the Questioner has attempted to do. He has been rightly crossed and countered with reference to dozens of Gita Verses by many sadhaks.  Swamiji and Holy Gita as I understand emphasize"accept  (Gita 7:19) ; then eliminate "asat" out of it or extend your "self" to be beyond it ; so that the real "knowledge" comes to you ! You must "know....that" (viddhi.. taan- 7:12) !! That knowledge is rare (sa Mahatma sudurlabh).

Hence begin with "acceptance" of Vasudev Sarvam, dont justify that in a hurry , simply believe that !! One should not jump to Vasudev Sarvam that fast. You must reconcile voice of God in Gita first.(An input to Vineetji for his "serious study"). What do you say Dear Shrikant Joshi? It is your subject also, Dear !!

Also note in the above verse- "know that" (taan viddhi) ! It has to be a part of your knowledge, in other words, experience. "Knowledge" here can be an output of "acceptance" (NABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH/ Mere to Girdhar Gopal- Bhakti Yoga) and "acceptance" can be output of "knowledge" (NASATO VIDYATE BHAVO/ Doosaro Na Koi- Jnana Yoga/ Karma Yoga). You choose!

Former needs "VISWAS/Faith/Trust"; later needs VIVEKA/Conscience ! You need to "know that" because you are born "bondaged" -
Karmanu bandhini manushya loke- BG 15:3 ) basically, as a human being. Hence "Vasudev Sarvam" needs steps to reach. (Sa mahatma sudurlabhah)

Now how to reach from here to Vasudev Sarvam? If you take any stand that asat is not existing and only God is existing (BG 2:16); or Sat is different than asat (BG 7:4) or God is beyond asat (BG 15:18) ; always the aforesaid words of 7:12 or 9:4/5 become true in relation to 7:19 !! But NOT, in relation to 7:19, if you take the stand - Asat is existing ! (Hence Bhakti Yoga is superior to Karma/Jnana Yoga) ! If something is not existing, how can God be in that; or how that non existent thing be in God ? If that is not existing, then what is existing ? That translates into only God exists- Vasudev Sarvam. But it translates in 2 stages - First, VASUDEV SARVAM (All is God) (BG 7:19 read with BG 9:19) ; (Acceptance)

Then "after you have cut the Pipala tree" (15:3/15:4 ) ;

Second- VASUDEV (There is only God - BG 2:16) !! (Knowledge/experience/realisation)

Another beautiful reconciliation comes in the bhava that since Only God exists ; therefore how can anything else be in Him or He be in anything else ! When there is only ONE where is the talk of second? Where is the very Q of "something else" ? Again here anything other than God is not existing, and therefore Only God exists !

Now one way is also seeing beyond that (actually) non existing (but believed/accepted to be existing) thing ( BG 14:19) !! Hence BG 15:18 ( I am wholly beyond Asat) !!

Beautiful is Holy Gita, Dear Sadhaks !! What a joy and peace it imparts when you dive deep into it.

To be contd.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

==========================

PRIOR POSTING

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NARAYAN NARAYN,

That which cannot be comprehended by this intellect, that which cannot be understood, but yet is the Truth.  THe shortcomings are in our understanding, not in the Essence (Divinity),  therefore the Truth,  will ever rise,  it will not diminish.  With practice and study one cannot realize this, because this practice takes place with the inert (jad), as without the body, mind, intellect, senses, practice and effort cannot take place.  With the inert, one cannot attain the conscious, the sentient.  Sentient can only be attained by the sentient.  With the inert body etc.  only the worldly work can get done.  Paramatma we have to only beleive, we have to only accept.  Because  just like there is Gangaji,  what practice and effort is needed to know that this is Gangaji.   If you accepts that everything is Paramatma then the sentiments that this is the world will be wiped out and only Paramatma will remain, that is already ever present in ever pour, every particle, every being, every where.  ..... 

I bow to this ever merciful over and over again.     

[RAMCHANDRA]

IN HINDI  

HAMARI BHUDHI ME NA AAYE , SAMAZ ME NA AAYE PER BAAT THO SACHI HEIN KAMI HAMARE
ME HEIN. TATAV ME NAHI. ESLIYE SACHI BAAT BEDHEGI HATEGI NAHI. ABHYAS SE ANUBHAV
NAHI HO TA KYOKI ABHYAS JAD SE HO TA HEIN.

SHARIR,INDRIYA , MAN, BUDHI,KE BINA ABHYAS NAHI HO TA , JAD SE CHETAN KI
PRAPTI NAHI HOTI. CHETAN KI PRAPTI CHETAN SE HO TI HEIN.JAD SE SHANSARIK KAM
HOTA HEIN."PARMATMA KO KEVAL MANNA HEIN" SHAWIKAR KARNA HEIN. KYOKI YEH THO ESHA HEIN "JAISE YE GANGAJI HEIN -ESME ABHYASH KYA HEIN.SAB KUCH PARMATMA HE HEIN
-YEH SHAWIKAR KARLO THO SHANSAR HEIN-YEH BHAVANA MIT JAYEGI. OUR PARMATMA
RAHGAYEJE. JO KI VASTAV ME HEIN.
"ROM ROM PRATI LAGE KOTI KOTI BRAHMAND"
HARI KI LEELA BADI APAR
BANGAYE AAP AKELE SAB KUCH, NAAM DHARA SHANSAR
MAAT PITA GURU SWAMI BANKER KARE DAANT FATKAR
SUT DHARA ARU SEVAK BANKER KHUB KARE SATKAR
KABHI ROG KA ROOP BANAKAR BANTE AAP BUKHAR
KABHI VED BAN DAVA KHILATE AAP KARE UPCHR
KABHI BHOG SUKH MAN BADHAI HAJIR ME NAR NAR
KABHI DUKHO KA PAHAD PATAKTE MACHTI HAHAKAR
KABHI SANT BANKAR JEEVO PER KIRPA DHARSTI VISTAR
ANGINAT JANMO KA DUKH SHANKAT  CHAN ME DEVE TAR
KABHI DHARNI PER SANTAN KE HET DHAR MANUSH AVTAR
AJAB ANOKHI LEELA KARTE SUMIRAT HO BHAV PAR
ANGINAT SWANG RACHATE HERDAM DHANYA BADE SARKAR
ESE PARAM KIRPALU PRABHU KO VINTI BA-RAM-BAR

[RAMCHANDRA]

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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
As learned sadhakas say, this is divine satsang.
We appear to reflect different views in our deliberations about God is present or not in ignorance, negativity etc. We may be saying same in different words we use, I hope!

I think the question is What is not God, rather than God is or is not in something!
As we all know God, the Infinite Absolute Existence cannot be contained in finite objects but all objects are within Him or they don't exist. If anything is manifest existence, it already is fundamentally God Unmanifest. It is already too late to call it a non-existence. Non-existence cannot be perceived, like son of a barren woman, says Vedanta! We are talking about Being-Existence, in this context, not what that existence appears as, good or bad, has God in it or not!
If Being is not cognized as God in anything perceived, desires, attachments are just waiting there!
As Vineetji has put it, this is also what Swamiji says to explain "Vasudeva sarvam".
There is Sat and then there is false-mithya(Sat appearing as names/forms). Asat is out of question being non-existence! Where one finds Mithya, only there one finds Sat-Existence absolute! Ignorance and negatives are such false superimposed on Sat.
Whatever objects allegedly devoid of God need "ME", the Conscious-Being to validate their existence, so they are not independent Reality! The world as we commonly know is not independently experienced! No one has ever! The world in reality IS God(Ishwara), only separate objects are mithyas!
Mirage is my own imagination, but in Truth it is whatever it IS. Can it exist without Sat of sand and Sunlight? So mirage doesnt exist independently from Sat! Can a reflection be there without mirror and light reflected by object? Can circle be seen without a fan running? What appears as circle is Fan all the way as it was before circle, during circle, and after the circle ceases to be! Seeing circle is illusion, but once it is known it is Fan, it cannot bind us, rather is useful! Illusion has ended, not the being of a fan!
Gita's message is to see God-Sat in all that which appears as Mithya, and not get attached to names/forms. This is the Beauty of its teaching! We need to go beyond saying "God is not in Ignorance", it is not even discussion Vineetji started as I see it.
In summary, Ignorance or any attributes on Sat is false, that is why we can Realize God, the only Sat, otherwise Ignorance, if it did exist independently from God, it cannot end. Thus wherever mithya is, there and only there, Sat is, God is!
In light of this understanding(only Vidya, the rest is avidya), anything gets resolved in God!
 Vasudevah sarvamiti! ..........Namaskar.....Pratap Bhatt

--------------------------------------------

Dear Sadaks,

("There was that one  Bhagwaan alone, there is  Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT.) (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).) said by a sadak. In the beginning God alone existed, then manifestation of Leela Vibuthi, then after MAHA Pralaya only God remains. World is Maya crated by Bramaji. Once Bramaji life span ends, the world ceases to exist and abides in Paramathuma. But Sadaks my understanding is that only through this world of experience and behavior one can reach GOD. So the body and the supporting system world are essential per my understanding. Many Gandervas, Kinkaras, even Naradh had to come to this earth to wash away their karmas. Everything manifests and abides in Paramathuma for some reason.

Another fact, Paramathuma IS and the world is also there as leela vibuthi. The world changes according to yugas and Karmas, but NOT Paramathuma. To understand the illusive world is a test or exams for man to elevate or keep in birth and death circle. That is the Truth. Example: Sidheswar of Sholapur jumped of cliff as he failed to see GOD. The karma (Action) jumping to death is paid by Bagavan lifting him up from falling and gave him Dharshan. Bakth Gora chopped his hands just for promise on Vital. God definitely knew Gora has the ability of Bakthi to chop his hands. But God waited for the Karma to happen and served him. Later GOD gave his hands and the dead child.

Our respectable Sri Vyasji says, "Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?"

You exist and mirror show your face. The fan exists and circle appears only when Fan runs. World exist and shape of world being round shows horizon. You are Athuman- the mirror is reflection. Fan is object and circle is illusion of your eyes which registers any movements in frames that brain takes in. The Athuman is the power behind brain function fan and circles are objects. So is world as example. Once the objects are not getting registered in mind, then GOD alone appears. Bible says, "Empty thyself and I (God) shall fill in"

Jai Sri Krishna

B.Sathyanarayan

---------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
This is so important that we must share points that seem different than learned Sadhakas!
This is to see where we differ if at all we do!
Vyasji says on John Forth's response "In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it?". With all the respect to him, I humbly submit that "whatever" exists is God. God cannot be dependent on something to exist first, something needs God to give it a freedom to exist as whatever name which is false anyway! John correctly points that temporary modifications happen in God(Divine), temporary modifications being mithya-false, (not asat which is ever non-existence)! God remains untouched even as "a thing" perish away to be another form/name! Names and forms are God's hide and seek game! He continues to play as long as He wants to, and then he throws them away and Realizes Himself in the form of Swamiji, for example!
God is the cause manifesting as effect in the world.
Basudebji has also explained it nicely this way as I understand!

With equally great respect I would say to Sathyanarayanji when he says "Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness."
Only when one understands "Consciousness"  deeply, experientially, one fulfills his purpose on this earth. I hope sadhakas see this in the spirit, I am saying and not just discard by saying "oh, Pratap is saying this same thing over and over!" Isn't it wonderful to answer all one's questions by just repeating the name of God!
When one understands Being(Atman) Is Consciousness IS God, and all there is as ONE Experience, nothing else remains to be known!
Conscience is not Consciousness in this context, please!
Then he says "Tree, animal etc  also lives. That is not consciousness."
Let alone tree and animal etc, all there is, IS Consciousness". (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahman), says Vedanta!
Then he says "Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.". Right you are! Being with Sat is Knowing, because knowing is Being too! That which you are, you have forgotten, so to remind, you have to know who you are, you have to remove ignorance by Divine Grace, by hearing Truth from the lips of Gyani-Guru, such as Swamiji! 
Surrender(acceptance) happens in Understanding, not by ego-individual's effort!
Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt

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Shri Hari Ram Ram,
 
By fact there are  two diffrent entities:  (God=Bhagwan) and (Kudarat =Scintific Circumstantial evidences=The Vyavysthit Shakti/force/power).
 
In our lokik world, we interchange or exchange the usages of two words:  God=Bhagwan and Kudarat.
 
We have the concept that GOD is the doer, creator, and goes favor to his Devotees.  For example, the role of Shri Krishna in Maha-Bharat. This is the general concept prevailing in the society/community. This things are just beliefs, but are not facts.
 
Everything is happening around us are due to the presence of Kudarat, in its natural/destined ways.  We are feeling/experiencing the effects of these destined Scientific Circumstantial evidences (your presence or you are one of the evedences in happening around you.  In other words, my presence or I am one of the evidences in hapening around me, the outcomes that I have craeted earlier but I have forgotten now).  This is how the Kudarat/nature funcions around everyone.
The roles of Shri Krishna, Bhishma-Pitamah, Duryodhan, Karna, and others in Mahabharat are by their desires, expectations, and commitments to their beliefs.
 
 
The GOD  (the omniscientiest person) is completely different from Kudarat.  God does not involve or interfere with what is going on in the society, community, or in nation.  If HE does interefere or involve then 'Everybody should be happy as they are created equal and have the same amenities and wealth.'
 
In fact, the GOD is within each of us and is the same in each and every individual.  The GOD present in each of us is not fully enlightened or not fully 100% self-realized.  If it is fully 100% self-realized, then it becomes 'Omniscientiest: knower of ecah and evrything  (past/future/presence) in the universe.   The Atma within each of us is parmatma, if it is fully 100%  self-realized.
 
There are very few 100% FULLY REALIZED PERSONS/Paramatma-Conscious in the universe, who are able to enlighten others.
  
Jashwant Shah

 

 

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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

At the Lotus feet

(Obeisance at the lotus feet of Swami Shri Ramsukhdasji this message is being transmitted through a Sadhak)

Your instructions "at the very least test my words and see" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 80); If you do so then I too will undergo a trial and get examined / confirmation of whether what I am saying is Ok or not!  I speak from the strength of the Gita.  (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 84); that in my practice and reflection I have discovered that which has been inspired by your talks that " Everything is only Bhagwaan" -  This is Gita's best of all principles"  (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 207);  "Other than that One Paramatma, nothing has ever manifested at all!" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 221);  Rather "There was that one  Bhagwaan alone, there is  Bhagwaan only, and only Bhagwaan will remain." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 223).

For this discovery the access and pathway was your discourse "Man's primary duty is to accept the Truth.  Paramatma IS - this is the TRUTH and the World IS NOT.  This too is the Truth.  To accept the Truth as Truth is acceptance of the Truth and to not accept that which is untrue (False) as false, that too is acceptance of the Truth. In essence, there is only one Truth and that is that besides That One Total, in entirety Bhagwaan there is nothing else at all -  Vasudeva Sarvam" (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 131). 

 "There is one extraordinary point that by seeing "IS" one does not see the pure, geniune "IS" but by seeing NOT in the form of NOT, the pure "IS" is seen." (Manav Maatre kalyaan ke liye - pg 1).  The question that was stated in front of over 21,000+ Gita talk sadhaks  " State what Gita tells us about  'WHAT IS NOT GOD / BHAGAWAAN / PARAMAATMAA'? giving quotes from Gita only " in other words "that please reveal what is not Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma?" and what does Gita state regarding this?  and to state "only based on what is stated in the Gita."  that technique by which in the form of an outcome to accept unreal (UNTRUTH, IS NOT) as "is not" and to accept Real "IS, TRUTH" as "IS". 
The answer / explanation to this has been presented by many sadhaks that are very thoughtful and with deep inquiry, but in all these there was not that answer which indicated that there is no Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma.  That "Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma" that is not there, that can be known when one first knows what that essence of Ishvar, Bhagwaan, Paramatma  really is?  That "IS" (Existence, Truth) is only One.  That element "IS-ness" cannot be described, because it is not the subject of the mind, intellect and speech" and "where there is description of That, there is no Essence (tattva) and where there IS the Essence (tattva), there is no description.
(Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 58), "Through use of words, Essence (tattva) cannot be described.  and as such the Essence neither Non-existent (IS-NOT) nor Existent (IS). And this   sadhaks "Essence" tattva is in reality spoken off by comparing with "non-existence", therefore what name to call it?  there is no name for it, in other words no words are capable of reaching it." (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 60),  and this Essence (tattva) is in reality of the form of transcendental experience (anubhav)  and "When non-existent, unreal is accepted as non-existent, then Essence in the form of Existence naturally remains AS-IS  (Saadhan, Sudhaa, Sindhu, pg. 61).  In other words - "Vasudeva Sarvam" 

Since  you pointed out to explain, thus this was uncovered, and besides this the 21,000+ sadhaks are now independent in bringing out opposing points to this one.  Has any thing been attained?  Your strength is the Gita and my strength.  It is you alone. 
This has been shared only due to Bhagwaan's grace.
Vineet
Sarvottam

Again to all sadhak, I join my hands and pray that absorb the essence of this message, and anything that is not essential consider it a mistake in my understanding and forget it, as I am a toy filled with flaws. 
Vineet
Sarvottam
------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

You are right Dear John Forth ! Welcome ! In order for God to be in "something" - that "something" must exist... isnt it? If "something" is not existing at all except in ignorance ; how God can be there in that ? Does river in a desert caused by mirage exist ? How can God be in that river which appears only to deer but exists not in a desert ? Does your face in mirror exist? Does a circle appearing by constant running of fan exist? Does horizon exist?

Therefore, in asat (false- what you call to be "temporary modification" ) the existence of God is denied by Gita ! He might have been the cause of the same, the master of the same, the creator of the same, the controller of the same, the owner of the same but He cant be said to be "existing" in the same/ "residing" in the same. Chaos shall emerge if that stand is taken. Hence Gita is very remarkably cautious, specific and categorical on this. Saints like Swamiji Ramsukhdasji has precisely brought out the difference for benefit of humanity at large. Because the very ASAT is actually non existent. It only "appears to be existing" due to ignorance.

Clear, Sir? Come back should you need more elucidation. Follow particularly this thread with special attention. A lot of clarity will emerge out of deliberations.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Dear Vineetji, in Gita, or in Vedanta, one cannot find any suggestion to say what is not God.
If one says "this is not God, then the person who says IS conscious being (Hindi:Uska Hona). That which he calls not God, also has the being, even if it is illusion, it has being! Now see the beauty, when one says "This is not God", one already has acknowledged "this IS" and so God is already in its ISness, in its being whatever it IS. God is smiling when we call any object by a name! This proves the impossibility of experiencing what is not God if Being(honapan) is seen as God which IS true.
That is why, perhaps, Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, it is only veiled by our ignorance!
Next we need to prove this Being is only ONE Reality of all beings, because then we can prove a being cannot be destroyed even when a being is seemingly destroyed!
A particular name/form disappears, then it still IS in another form. A Seed, combined with water, sunlight, earth, intelligence that plants it etc all become tree! Tree gets back to great elements, and great elements derive their being from "I" or "ME" as Awareful Being(Krishnaji uses "ME" for Himself to mean this). And Awareness IS ever IS. So it is easy to see Being is ONE manifesting as many, and can never go out of beingness!(Nabhavo vidyate satah: BG 2:16).
Divinity-God-Supreme Consciousness-Unmanifest is vibrantly expressing through all manifest sentients and in-sentients, alike as THE EXISTENCE. But we get tangled up in names/forms only! Everything is rooted in ONE Tree, with branches, leaves, trunk, buds, flowers. It is this Connectedness of ONE Immprtal BEING that we call GOD!
Thus everything one sees is in God, as God, for God, from God, to God!
This is the hint Vineetji may be giving us for Vasudeva sarvam iti!

Namaskar...Pratap Bhatt
---------------------------------------------------
  
Basudeb Sen
Shrastra (Creator) and Shistri (Creation) cannot be distinguished into two. If one tries to do so, it will be difficult to arrive at the Creator as the question will arise ad infinitum as to who created the Creator at any stage. Therefore, the Creator and the Creation has to be the same logically. If God is who has created everything, then he must be everything in creation. So, everything that existed, exits or will exist in future is God. The existence of non-God is impossible.
Assume that X is non-God. But X is the creation of something. God being the only creator or source of everything, X , as part of the creation, is created by God. But the creator and the creation being the same, X has to be God. So, the assumption of X being non-God is logically false.
You may question how can God be everything - both good and evil, right and wrong, Sun and the moon, Day and night, Saint and thief, human and animal - all at the same time? This question arises because of ego and attachment to forms. Once the ego is gone and attachment to forms disappear from mind one can realize that unless the creator allowed all these opposites cannot co-exist.
So, the answer to your question is there is nothing that is not God. In Gita, read Biswarup Darshan portion where Arjun is able to see everything in Lord Krishna when Lord grants him Divine Vision and his illusion of distiguishinh different forms temporarily disappears.
Basudeb Sen
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Hari Om

The message of Vasudev Sathyanarainji is one of the best messages I have ever read on this Divine Forum. My Pranaams to him. You are absolutely right, Sir ! Absolutely based on sound knowledge of the Scriptures and of Holy Gita.

I bow to you, Sir, from deep within.

In fact you have precisely addressed one of the four corner riddles presented by Holy Gita in 7:12/9:4-5. (They are not in Me, I am not in them) ! Another corner is BG 9:19 (I am both Sat and Asat) !! 3rd corner is BG 13:12/ 11:37 (He is neither Sat nor Asat. ... You are beyond Sat and Asat ) !! 4th corner is BG 2:16 (There is no existence of Asat; there is no absence of Sat).

And then is BG 7:19 -All is God. Later on: There is God Only !!

Your message imparts a lesson to all. Gita has infinite bhavas. The aforesaid four corners of riddle, in my humble view, are stages by which you understand Holy Gita. When you reach ... 7:19, you become SILENT.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
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Jai Hanuman

Congratulations Divine Sadhaks for providing real sattwik heights to Satsanga in this thread ! All responses are absolutely SAT. Rupeshji, Naaradji, Jayantilalji, Ranjankumarji and Anirudhji - right you are, absolutely right ! Brother Sathyanarainji ! Beautiful, Brother ! Really Divine ! Oye Tussi Great Ho Jee! We are privileged to be in your company, Sathyanarainji!

Infinite are the rays of knowledge emanating from Gitaji ! It is one of the most intriguing puzzles/challenges if somebody reads Gita on the strength of his/her intellect or mind or ego or sense of having understood it. It is Divine voice, after all. It can prove all to be right and all to be wrong ! It did not spare even Arjuna when he was under "ignorance" mode. Everything spoken by him in Gita has been ruthlessly and unceremoniously dismissed by Lord Krishna. That is how Gita works. No body can boast to own it. Gita is a master in itself. Surrender to it and it becomes your greatest friend.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala 

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PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadaks,

What Paramathuma created is Samasti Shriti upto Sri Bhramaji. In it HE created different combinations of 3 gunas.  There after the creation was Vesti Shriti Sri Bhramaji works. It was then the ignorance came in. In Chirstian philosophy and Muslim thoughts there is one called Seten or Sitan (Agynan). Please read Srimath Bagavath and Geetha 10th Chapter with hidden meanings. I will quote sloka, verses details later.

The agynan stands separate as that is the tool that tests all humans to see the purity. Only due to Agynan people become terrorist, cruel, cheaters Etc. The swaroop of Agynan is Ravana, Duryodhan, Kans. There previous Karma is connected to Agynan. I am not fully Gynani. I still have flaws. The level of flaws may very less. Some may have more level of flaws. Only when one comes out of the test as Sant Tukaram said- Kamini and Kanchan, he is divine with God. Scripts are very clear that upto Brahma Lok there is sleep, hunger, and desire. Only Humans have the gift to directly reach Vaikunt or Kailash. Gyan is Swaroop of Bagavan. So agyan cannot be from Bagavan or part of Bagavan. Bagavan has killed so many bad ones that were in Agynan. If Bagavan and Agynan are one, then where is the question of Samhar. The Samhar is to body not to the soul. The Agynan is perishable with the body. So Bagavan removes Agynan from soul and sets it free. Bagavan is called Purushotam, means completely flawless in all aspects. Then Bagavan does have absolutely NO flaw. Only WHO is Purushotam can make other flawless.

Existence (Energy)= M to the power of C (Conversion of matter) Scientifically

Some are dead though they are living says many scripts and saints.

Only when one understands fully his purpose of coming on this earth is Consciousness.  Other conscience is ignorance in disguise, like to say one is living. Tree, animal etc  also lives. That is not consciousness. One who fully follows principle of Geetha or Puranas Dharma and lives by it, is consciousness. Speaking or teaching or just knowing about Sat is not consciousness, but by being with Sat.

Sri Naaradh anger can be felt by Sri Sarvottam. How is it possible? A most minor not traceable amount of Agynan makes one feel the anger.

Negative and positive are not temporary modifications. They are result producers permanently when manifestation takes place and abides in Paramathuma. Any thing on earth or other 13 worlds works only on these two. Only when negative and positive are there bulb light up. There is negative and positive energies in all living things. Once when a person becomes totally positive (Like Adi Sankara- Buddha- Christ) no anger, desires Etc in them. Their energy level radiates to 12 Km radius, as such, by their Dharshan alone one gets to realize.

Pardon me

Jai Sri Krishna

B.sathyanarayan

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Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!
 
I request Moderators to tell contributors to quote specific teachings of Swamiji in print rather than giving page nos etc as Vineetji has done. If it is a serious study than they must take pains to QUOTE from the books so that all Sadhaks may benefit. By giving page nos of some book and then making categorical remarks of Swamiji teachings being impossible to be wrong will not help westerners to understand. I dont think in any Swamiji's books IT IS CATEGORICALLY stated that  in AGYAAN God resides. It must have been in different context. And why... bring Swamiji unless there is need for clarification ? Is not in Gita itself it is written that I AM BEYOND DARKNESS ( BG 13: 17). Read Gita Prabodhani Hindi Page 372 : Swamiji has stated:-
 
Just as in Sun darkness can never come ; in God AGYAAN can never come, it CANNOT come, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO COME.
 
 I am referring to same Swamiji.... Mr Vineet..... AS IT IS !   Now please kindly share with us the results of your SERIOUS RESEARCH and STUDY as early as possible.
Raam! Raam !! Raam !!!
 
Anirudh Joshi
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Bhagvad Geeta does mention the manifestation Divine in various Natural Phenomena
as detailed in Chapter 10, its central message is how to become Divine.Verse
52/2 deals with this: When your intellect comes out of mud of attachment, you
will be able to read the open book of Nature - will not require discourses.
Hence what is not God is not the central theme of Geeta. To come out of
attachment is to become God or God-like.
Jayantilal Shah

-------------------------------------------------------
Jai Shree Krishna
 
SINCE YOU ARE QUITE INSISTENT ON GITA.... GITA  and HENCE I AM QUOTING GITA ...GITA only:
 
1 There is no God in IGNORANCE as Lord Krishna Himself has stated in BG 7 12 - NA TWAM TESHU TE MAYI ( I am not in them and they are not in me)! Is Lord Krishna wrong ? COME ON !! Dont tell me ignorance does not exist and only God exists....because if that is so why God talked about it ? This position is confirmed only in 7:14 !!
 
2. There is no God in GUNAS ! Because Lord says in 7:13 that fools do not understand that I am beyond GUNAS ! If He is beyond Gunas: How can He be in Gunas ? Read 14:19 also.
 
3. There is no God existing in idiots , moodhas , mohitas, as they do not recognise God because had there been Godhood in them they would not have remained ignorant ( BG 7:12/13/15/24/25: 9:11)
 
4 There is no God existing IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD's JEEVAS because God has stated that NA CHAAHAM TESHWAVASHTHITAM and NA CHA MATSTHAANI BHUTANI in 9:4 /5 . Is God wrong? There is no God in Prakruti because He is beyond Prakruti. That Prakruti is His power only does not mean that He is there in it. He is causing it not residing in it ? What do you say Mr Vineet ?
 
5 There is no God existing in DARKNESS ! God has stated that  He is TAMASAH PARAM UCHYATE ( BG 13:17) ! Is God wrong? How can He be in darkness when He Himself says that He is beyond it?
 
6 There is no God in ASURI PEOPLE referred in Chapter 16. Because had God been existing in them then how they would have indulged into ....MAMATMAPARDEHESHU PRADVASHINTO BHYASUCHAKA  (16:18) ! Any body who has God in Him can He do so, Mr Vineet Sarvottam? Can you do so Sir ? 
 
7 God states in 16:19 that He consigns ASURI people to hells again and again. If God is existing in them, and Lord Krishna consigns them to hell is He not doing what is stated in 13:28?
 
I have not scrolled through Entire Gita.  Kindly read carefully Vyasji's message from today. 
Swami Rupesh Kumar
 
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Narain ! Narain !!
 
No Vineet, Sarvottamji Maharajs ! I was never angry !  
 
If I ask you - Iis God not there in SIN? In Stool ? You will not be able to say NO ! Then if  I ask you why should not I sin when God is very well in that ? What will you reply? How in that case Gita will be "LIVED" ? How the distinction between 16:1 to 3 and balance chapter 16 will be drawn?  If you conclude: There is no God in so and so then your reference of BG 7:19 will be futile. Moreover the biggest fault lies in corelating BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! If all is God who will surrender to whom ? Why? No Vineetji Maharaj ! By telling  that you are in surrendered mode only already...nothing will emerge, because then why 18:66 is there in Gita. WHOEVER TALKS ABOUT GITA ONLY INTRODUCES HIS INTELLECT. IN FACT AFTER UNDERSTANDING GITA....... ONE BECOMES SILENT.   By the way, Gita is full of verses WHERE LORD HIMSELF HAS TOLD THAT HE IS NOT IN THAT OR HE IS BEYOND THAT. I am not narrating because I want you to read yourself. How else will you read Gita otherwise?
 
Narain ! Narain !!
 
Naarad N Maharishi 

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there is two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are studying the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, The Bible:1. Mass 2 Energy except these two nothing else
 
Ranjankumar
 
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Shree Hari:
Ram Ram.
Revered Answerers :
Shree B. Sathyanarayanjee :
Your statement There exists Agyan apart from God needs Quotations from scriptures referred by you.
Please view at pages 202, 203, 204 of Manavamatrake Kalyanke Liye (Hindi) ISBN 81-293-0497-X and ascertain if Ajnan (ignorance) is NOT GOD. If Ajnan is NOT GOD all what Swamiji told us in those pages becomes untrue which is IMPOSSIBLE.
 
Shree Naarad N MahaRishijee :
Your anger is natural as you, too couldn't find 'What is NOT GOD'? Please help us find 'What is NOT GOD?'  We seek your help in finalizing the search. 
 
Ram Ram.
Vineet,
Sarvottam
------------------------------------------------
 
How can anything not be God especially as there is only The Divine Reality in which all of this, both apparently positive, and apparently negative, arises as a temporary modification of The Divine.
 
 "John Forth"
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Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
This is to respond to Sathyanarayanji's post!
Even Ignorance cannot exist apart(as independent reality) from God which is Absolute Existance= Consciousness! Whoever says ignorance exists independently from God, is himself/herself Conscious-Being only. And God is Conscious-Being!
It is like: to say I am dead, one has to be alive! or to say I was not there before my birth, I have to be there to say "I was not". Also I have to "know" that "I don't know(ignorance)" so and so,right? So, again knowing-ness has to be there which IS Consciousness!
So you see, ignorance cannot exist without being conscious of ignorance! We cannot experience our non-existence and therefore, everthing is I-Sat-Chit in which knowledge and ignorance, likes/dislikes, pairs of opposites are perceived only! And the stuff (vastu) of all such perceptions is Consciousness-God! In otherwords, all our experiences(includig mundane ones) are undenyably "KNOWINGNESS"! ONLY God IS!
Namaskar.......Pratap Bhatt
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Hari om

I have said earlier and I repeat that there is God everywhere. But for any individual soul His presence is entirely dependent on "acceptance" by that individual ! There is God no where if an individual soul does not "accept" that ! Hence existence of God vis a vis an individual Jeeva is entirely dependent upon his "acceptance" / "sveekruti"/ "maanyata" !! What is fact is immaterial because, in ignorance mode, that truth is not manifested. Entire Gita teachings are designed to first identify this classification and then reveal the truth; so that individual "accepts" the same. Till he (individual) accepts presence of God ; THERE IS NO GOD existing for that soul.

Satsanga is ultimately for individual Jeevas; for emancipation of individual. There is no mass emancipation. Hence truth has to be viewed from "acceptance"/Sveekruti/ Manyata yardstick only. Even God does that only.

If we say, God is in all , then the Questioner says: I asked you to tell me as to where the God is not.  I tell God is not there in ignorance.

I go a step further. I dont presence of God  in every that thing in which I dont believe that there is God. In fact God also believes exactly what I believe, as per Gita . He deals with an individual under exactly that belief only. COME ON !!

Of course, I am awaiting as eagerly the outcome of this very special serious research which has been undertaken by some of the Learned Sadhaks. Naturally, the study cant conclude that "God is in all" because that was the answer each and every sadhak gave clearly but was not accepted and search was continued, and a request was made to GT Moderators reg advicing us    "to live" Gita and not merely indulge in "rituals" !

I also await linking of BG 7:19 with 18:66 !! Basically, I believe that a question can not arise and should not arise as to what is not God at least in that individual who believes himself in what is stated in BG 7:19. Because the very Q suggests doubt ! Very Q suggests a possibility of God not being somewhere ! Very Q suggests something inequally prevalent - be it wisdom or knowledge or Jnana or Bhakti or anything- not SARVAM !! The very Q suggests an individually known truth and not universal truth !!!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jai Shree Hari,

The BhagavaanJi has described the Brahman (i.e. GOD) as "NA SAT NA ASAT UCHYATE - Gitaji 13/12" (i.e. GOD is neither SAT/ nor ASAT). In otherwords, GOD is not bound by the duality of SAT(i.e.sentient) and ASAT (i.e. insentient). So, as long as we are in the realm of SAT and ASAT, we can not realize the ONE who is beyond SAT and ASAT (TVAM AKSHARM SAT ASAT TAT PARAM YAT - Gitaji 11/37). He is just the ONE who is everything.

May God bless us all.
Niteesh Dubey

---------------------------------------------------------

Hello!
 
Jai Manav
There is only two _________(plz fill with appropriate word) in this present universe whether you are seeking knowledge from the studying of the Gita, The Ramayan, The Vedas, The Kuran, or The Bible
 
1. Mass
2 Energy
 
Nothing else beyond this.
Ranjankumar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Dear Sadhak Sarvotham,
You wanted to know, from Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'.
Agynan (Ignorance) word which is there in Geetha as well as in Upanashids. It also says that Agynan existed Anaathi Kal (Time unknown) -Source Vivekachdamani, Padma Puran, Garuda Puran. There exists Agynan apart from GOD.
Can anyone call or say that GOD exists in Agynan (ignorance).
Jai Sri Krishna.
B.Sathyanarayan
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!
 
One wonders as to how deep knowledge of Gitaji can be there and how Gitaji "impacts" individual brains, minds, intellects, egos and Selves ! Grace of Gitaji is infinite.. We all are keenly awaiting the outcome of Divine Serious Pious Study being conducted for the benefit of Sadhaks by Vineet Sarvottamji. I am sure a lot of precious gems will emerge out of this study. Indeed we want to learn how to "live Gitaji". The aura woven around such a blessed  Sarvottamji and Vineetji is unprecedented in the history of GT  Group.
 
Waiting anxiously.
 
Raam ! Raam !! Raam !!!

Anirudh
-------------------------------------------------
Jai Shree Krishna
 
Keenly awaiting the outcome of this "serious study"  !
 
Swami Rupesh Kumar
 
-----------------------------------------------------------
 
Radhey ! Radhey !!
 
Genuinely, I also believe that EVERYTHING IS PARAMATMA.
 
We all are obliged to Divine GT Moderators under whose permission, supervision and jurisprudence such a serious study of " WHAT IS NOT BHAGWAAN/PARAMATMA/GOD " We Sadhaks are due to get some special results of this remarkable special and serious research and study. I would urge Divine GT Moderators to let us know EVERYDAY regarding the progress achieved in this study and the outcome of this serious study?

Radhey ! Radhey !!
 
Nisha
------------------------------------------------------------

Narain ! Narain !!
 
Did Swamiji ever says such things? .......  such as -  if they are not able to find out what is not God from Gita...then they are not "living Gita" as then they are merely indulging into "rituals"  ?
 
Now, a note will be given answering the Qs ...after ascertaining from this "serious study" (all other things on this Satsanga site have already been proclaimed by the Questioner to be "rituals"... right under the nice nose (s) of Moderator Brother (s) ....  Narain ! Narain !!) which note will be seen by GT Moderators....and if they find that the same is going to help Sadhaks...then they shall put it on the site ?  Otherwise " KHEL KHATTAM" !! What a drama ? What a serious study ? What a way to " LIVE GITA" ? What a way to appease "favoured" contributors ?  Narain ! Narain !!
 
You are Great , O Questioner and O Brother Moderators !  But we are anxiously awaiting the results of this "serious study" !! I pray to Lord Naraina that some "new substance/ some secret" springs out of the magician's hat... to benefit us all. It should NEVER be " TAAIN TAAIN FISSS" ! It should not be " KHODA PAHAAR .. NIKALI CHUHIA....WOH BHI MARI HUI" ! I hope Moderators are quite seasoned in that regard. These mails have gone to 20000+ people....with declaration of serious study and not a ritual...after blaming them that they are not "living Gita" !!! O World ! Here is the realised soul giving you nectar from Gita !! Catch your breath.
 
Narain ! Narain!!
 
Naarad N Maharishi
-------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Namaste

Since GITA tells us everything IS GOD, and does not tell us that there
is anything that is NOT GOD, then the logical inference is there is
nothing that is NOT GOD.

Trying to prove a negative when there is no proof or evidence of the 'negative fact'
is impossible; hence, one may have to resort to negative inference which is
not sufficiently robust in many cases to prove the negative beyond a reasonable
doubt.

But for me, and I hazard a guess this would be the case for most, if not all
sadhaks, there is no doubt that GITA is absolutely clear that GOD is all, He is
everything, and I fully accept that there is nothing that is NOT GOD even though
it is not explicitly stated as such in GITA.

Still, I am open to any references from GITA and other Scriptures that clearly and
unambiguously states that anything is NOT GOD. Of course, there isn't any such
reference because Bhagavan Krishna tells us in many verses of GITA that He is
All, He pervades, He is Omnipotent, and He is Everything. Good enough for me.

Ram Ram,
Deosaran Bisnath

----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Shri Hari!
Shri "Vineet ji" is absolutely right that where the feeling of "What is not God" ends, saadhak lives in the only and ever existing "IS".

Regarding the talking point, as far as I remember at this point of time, Bhagavaanji has not said "WHAT IS NOT GOD" directly to Arjun though he did say that he is not in something and that something is not in him.
1) Feelings created by DEHI/JEEV being influnced by the 3modes of Prakriti. (7/12).
 "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" (7/12),
2) I am not in beings and beings are not in me though they are held by me. "NA CHA AHAM TESHHU AVASTHITAM, ....." (9/4-5-6).

Other ways to look "WHAT IS NOT GOD" in Gitaji:
1) GOD is called by many other names  (BRAHM, PARAMAATMAA, PARAM SHANTI, PARAM BHAVA, ANANT SHANTI, PARAM DHAAM, PARAMPURUSHHA, ADIDEV, PURUSHHOTTAM, BRAHM NIRVAAN, YOGA, SAMATA,  MOKXA, AMRRITA, AATYANTIK SUKHA, AIKAANTIK SUKHA, PARAM SUKHA,  (saadhya) GYAAN, PARAA BHAKTI,  AKARMA etc...) from different perpective in Gitaji. So, anything which is not any one of these  is "NOT GOD".

2) What ever Bhagavan ji has asked Arjun to give up or get rid of  are "NOT GOD" as only the adapted things that are temporary/unreal can be given up/destroyed. In other words, GOD does not live in the unreal which is "NOT REAL" itself. This may include any artificialities/ritual/dharma/kaam/attachment born out of ignorance. This is what I see in "SARVA DHARMAAN PARITYAJYA.."(18/66). Gitaaji is full of such advices (JAHI SHATRUM MAHAABAAHO KAAMRUPAM DURAASADAM -3/43, CHHITVAINAM SHANSHYAM YOGAM AATISHTHA UTTISHHTHA -4/42 .....).

Best Regards
Niteesh Dubey

--------------------------------------------------

Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:
Jayantilal Shah : Verses 8 to 16 of chapter 16 speak of some ignorant beings but NOT of 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. The 20 verses of chapter 15 speak of world-tree, Paramaatmaa and other beings but nothing is said there as to 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'. If you feel God is lost in Taliban you are mistaken. Nothing goes beyond God's Will. Do you think Taliban is stronger than God? No. They are having their own time like Kauravas had. please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?'
Niteesh Dubey : Verses 16 of 2, verses 4, 5, 7 of 7, verse 4 of 9, verses 39, 42 of 10 all describe what God IS but not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' verse 12 of 7 describes the 'gunas' not 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?' Please read page 478 of Sadhak Sanjeevanee explaining 'na tvaham teshu te mayi'  and you will find what God IS but not what God is not. please find and quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaa/Paramaatmaa?'
Request to Gita-Talk Moderators: Still no Sadhak is coming forward to quote from Gita as to 'What is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa?' Should the study be continued or dropped now? If closed, a separate mail will be sent answering the Question, to circulate if considered useful to Sadhakas.
Vineet,
Sarvottam.
------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Such a thing is not possible, but when veil of Avidya becomes too thick,then it
is not possible for even a dim light of the soul to come out. This is temporary
like pitch dark in the middle of the night.Verses 8 to 16 of Chapter 16 of
Bhagvad=Geeta give a vivid picture of behavioural characteristics of such
persons. Although God is still present,Divinity gets obscured. Otherwise, 15th.
Chapter starts with 'Urdhva Mulam'an assurance that at all times our connection
with God cannot be snapped.
When I read reports about Taliban in Pakistan, sometimes I feel that temporarily
God has disappeared in them. I pray that they may also get the same Light as we
get through our Satsang.Geeta's  message is Universal for those who would like
to listen.
Jayantilal Shah

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jai Shri Hari!

Shri Vyas ji is absolutely right that there should not be a place of such question itself as Bhagavaan ji has said "NA ABHAVO VIDYATE SATAH"(2/16), "MATTAH PARATARM NANYAT.." (7/7), "MAYA TADAMIDAM SARVAM GAGAT AVYAKT MURTINA.." (9/4), "..NA TADASTI VINA YATSYAAT MAYA BHOOTAM CHARACHARAM" (10/39), "VISHTABHYAMIDAM KRITSNAM EKAANSHEN STHITO JAGAT" (10/42) etc......

If we think about anything, that will be either from his APARA NATURE or from his PARA NATURE who is holding this world (7/4-5). The LINKAGE/IGNORANCE/MAAYA/AVIDYA  which we have created ourselves and got entangled by putting ourselves in the domain of APARA (i.e. by giving importance to APARA, the lower nature of God, and not the God) is the place/linkage/granthi where God does not reside. This is the thing for which God says "NA TU AHAM TESHHU" in Shloka 7/12 (i.e. I am not in them). As long as we use this lens/linkage/ignorance to see (GO GOCHAR JAHAN MAN LAGI JAAYI | SO SAB MAAYA JAANEHU BHAI  - MAANAS) the God, we will not be able to understand "VAASUDEV SARVAM ITI" .

Jai Shri Hari
Niteesh Dubey

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Ram Ram all Sadhakas who are replied below:
Mike Keenor : please quote 'what is not God' from Gita. Verse 7 - 14 says about illusion which is also God's hence it IS God.
B. satyanarayanan : Chapter 16 of Gita, none of the 24 verses say 'what is NOT God'. Please quote from Gita 'What is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa.
Deosaran Bisnath : You have said what is TRUE. There exists nothing that is not God. But the quoted verses 9 - 16 to 19, 10 - 19 to 39 donot say anything about 'what is not God'. Please quote from Gita 'what is not God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'.
Vyas NB : There exists nothing but God. This is the only TRUTH. Request is 'Please quote from Gita saying 'what is NOT God/Bhagawaan/Paramaatmaa'.
Humble Request to Gita-Talk Moderators : Kindly let Sadhakas not only read and interpret Gita but to 'live Gita' which is the very purpose of verses 19 of chapter 7 and 66 of chapter 18 as emphasized by Swamijee. Where this pursuit for 'what is NOT God' ends Sadhaka lives in what is IS.
Ram Ram.
Vineet,
Sarvottam.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.
In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"
B.Sathyanarayan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Namaste

Extremely commendable effort to link Gita 7-19:
"At the end of many births, the man of wisdom takes refuge in Me, realising that all this is Vâsudeva (the innermost Self). Very rare is that great soul."

with Gita 18-66:

"Relinquishing all Dharmas take refuge in Me alone; I will liberate thee from all sins; grieve not."I thought Gita 11-40 may also be included:
"Salutation to Thee before and behind, salutation to Thee on every side, O All! Thou, infinite in power and infinite in prowess, pervadest all; wherefore Thou art All."
I look forward to the informative and divine discussions on this, and other topics.Ram Ram
Deosaran Bisnath

-------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Shree  Hari: Ram Ram. 
Sadhakas were requested to state what Gita tells us about 'what is not God / Bhagawan / Paramatma' giving quotes from Gita only.
This is a serious study, not a ritual.
Thanks to the Sadhakas who responded and as they haven't quoted what was required, their responses have been replied duly (in RED below).
The Gita - Talk Moderators are REQUESTED TO HELP is finding the truth in 700 verses of Gita. This study has the purpose of linking verse 19 chapter 7 with verse 66 chapter 18.
Ram Ram. Vineet, Sarvottam
-----------------------------------------------------------
 
-Shree Hari-

Namaste!

Taking a lead from Shrikant Joshi regards 7:12 Bhagavad
Geeta, 7:14 says:-
Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over; those who take refuge in me alone cross over this illusion.

Thus if the question is what is not GOD, Illusions, are not God, thus everything is GOD.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
(chapter 16 wrt the "asuri" nature souls. Hence although Paramatma exists in all and in everything, however, to the ignorant ones He does not exist, for they don't "assume/accept" so !) says a sadak. Even in ignorant ones HE exists, but the ignorance is the cause to uncover Bagavan in his mind.
In ADHARMA "NOT GOD"
B.Sathyanarayan
-------------------------------------------
 
Namaste.

There does not exist anything that is "NOT GOD / BHAGAVAN / PARAMATMA".

Here are a few verses from Gita that demonstrate this:

I am the Kratu, I the Yajna, I the Svadhâ, I the Aushadham, I the Mantra, I the Ajyam, I the fire, and I the oblation.

I am the Father of this world, the Mother, the Sustainer, the Grandfather; the Purifier, the (one) thing to be known, (the syllable) Om, and also the Rik, Sâman and Yajus.

The Goal, the Supporter, the Lord, the Witness, the Abode, the Refuge, the Friend, the Origin, the Dissolution, the Substratum, the Storehouse, the Seed immutable.

(As sun) I give heat: I withhold and send forth rain; I am immortality and also death; being and non-being am I, O Arjuna!   Gita 9-16 to 19

Gita 9-19 is of particular importance, in that Bhagavan tells that He is immortal life and He is inevitable death. He is the manifest temporary, physical creation and at the same time He is the unmanifest eternal, invisible creation.

Since He patronises all, the Supreme Lord is pitaham the father. Since He comprehends all the needs of everything in creation He is the matah or mother. Since He is superior to even Prajapati who designed and constructed the worlds, he is pitamahah the grandsire . Since He is the ultimate abode of all, He is sthanam the basis of all. Since He is the protector of all, He is suhrt the dear most friend.

He is the root cause for the manifestation of existence, He is the avyayam bijam the imperishable seed. Since periodically He terminates all life, He is pralaya the dissolution concluding the end cycle for all created beings as mrtyuh or inevitable death. He is also certainly amritam or immortal and resides within the body sustaining life and distancing death. The Shabda Nirnaya states that: Since the Supreme Lord Krishna possesses in full all auspicious attributes and qualities, He is sat or the eternal unmanifest spirit sat because there is nothing independent from to Him and He is asat as well because there is independent from Him.

In other words, HE IS EVERYTHING, NOTHING IS "NOT OF HIM."

And, in Chapter 10 - 19 to 39, He provides more attributes of Himself:

I shall speak to thee now, O best of the Kurus, of My divine attributes, according to their prominence; there is no end to the particulars of My manifestation.

I am the Self, O Gudâkesha, existent in the heart of all beings; I am the beginning, the middle, and also the end of all beings.

Of the Adityas, I am Vishnu; of luminaries, the radiant Sun; of the winds, I am Marichi; of the asterisms, the Moon.

I am the Sâma-Veda of the Vedas, and Vâsava (Indra) of the gods; of the senses I am Manas, and intelligence in living beings am I.

And of the Rudras I am Sankara, of the Yakshas and Râkshasas the Lord of wealth (Kuvera), of the Vasus I am Pâvaka, and of mountains, Meru am I.

And of priests, O son of Prithâ, know Me the chief, Brihaspati; of generals, I am Skanda; of bodies of water, I am the ocean.

Of the great Rishis I am Bhrigu; of words I am the one syllable "Om"; of Yajnas I am the Yajna of Japa (silent repetition); of immovable things the Himâlaya.

Of all trees (I am) the Ashvattha, and Nârada of Deva-Rishis; Chitraratha of Gandharvas am I, and the Muni Kapila of the perfected ones.

Know Me among horses as Uchchaisshravas, Amrita-born; of lordly elephants Airâvata, and of men the king.

Of weapons I am the thunderbolt, of cows I am Kâmadhuk; I am the Kandarpa, the cause of offspring; of serpents I am Vâsuki.

And Ananta of snakes I am, I am Varuna of water-beings; and Aryaman of Pitris I am, I am Yama of controllers.

And Prahlâda am I of Diti's progeny, of measurers I am Time; and of beasts I am the lord of beasts, and Garuda of birds.

Of purifiers I am the wind, Râma of warriors am I; of fishes I am the shark, of streams I am Jâhnavi (the Ganges).

Of manifestations I, am the beginning, the middle and also the end; of all knowledges I am the knowledge of the Self, and Vâda of disputants.

Of letters the letter A am I, and Dvandva of all compounds; I alone am the inexhaustible Time, I the Sustainer (by dispensing fruits of actions) All-formed. And I am the all-seizing Death, and the prosperity of those who are to be prosperous; of the feminine qualities (I am) Fame, Prosperity (or beauty), Inspiration, Memory, Intelligence, Constancy and Forbearance.Of Sâmas also I am the Brihat-Sâma, of metres Gâyatri am I; of months I am Mârgashirsha, of seasons the flowery season.
I am the gambling of the fraudulent, I am the power of the powerful; I am victory, I am effort, I am Sattva of the Sâttvika.
Of the Vrishnis I am Vâsudeva; of the Pândavas, Dhananjaya; and also of the Munis I am Vyâsa; of the sages, Ushanas the sage.Of punishers I am the sceptre; of those who seek to conquer, I am statesmanship; and also of things secret I am silence, and the knowledge of knowers am I.
And whatsoever is the seed of all beings, that also am I, O Arjuna. There is no being, whether moving or unmoving, that can exist without Me.
Ram Ram,
Deosaran Bisnath

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