Sunday, May 31, 2009

[gita-talk] Re: Are Some Paths More Direct? How to Get Past Dogmas towards Common Ground?

-Shree Hari-

Dear Brethren,

What I have found is that the biggest stumbling block is dogma, it
can act as a block to progress. But if one steps around these blocks,
driven by ones own insight, then yes one will arrive at the common
ground, metaphorically the Christian will stand hand in hand with
Jain, Hindu, and Muslim etc, having also completed their winding
Simple example, reincarnation, from a scriptural and intuitive point
of view it must be. And yet of course the Church denies it.
(In all probability some paths are more direct).

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor



Understanding the wisdom/rules of life is the key

Happiness is the key value and everything else gets derived from this value.....
It is very scientific....

It is not about christian, muslim, hindu........or any other label  etc.....It is about truth, it is about our rules applicable to us, It is about the research world over on the wisdom of life....for centuries....In India too this happened vigorously and results were amazing..... Religions/labels are based the truth of life and not the vice-a-versa.....

Need today is to integrate these learnings and systematically make them available to the people especially to children without a any other subject we maths, physics, chemistry, we worry about the muslim, hindu, christian labels....We all need to get out of these labels and go to the basics...if you really want to see yourself happy and if you really want to see the world happy....

Sushil Jain


My understanding is that the Abrahamic religions is more COMMAND/ORDER based, that is why they are more orderly.
They all stress one path- faith/obedience. Disobedience is the sin.
Thus, they don't dwell on re-birth. That concept is irrelevant to them, because they want you to get it right in this life or be lost for ever.

As opposed to it, we have countless opportunities to  work at our own pace. Thus, re-birth
becomes significant. In our system, it can happen in split of a second or in eons, it is up to
us. All paths are fine, all paths are true (sort of an oxymoron, that is why at the end, in most arguments with Christians and Muslims, most Hindus look like fools!), etc. This is quite different from One life, one chance- if you do not follow the order, you eternally burn in hell. Just like a police or even a loving mother. Both have to be strict to ensure their message is followed.
Jainism & Buddhism also relatively more orderly than Hinduism (sanatana Dharma).
Because they also stress on one path-knowledge/reasoning. However, they also believe in re-birth and innumerable opportunities.
As we know, it is the Abrahamic religions that call the shots in this world.
They are prepared, proactive (within the limits, like Judaism does not seek converts);
Hinduism may be pre-pro active (as it has thought of all possibilities for all times), but what I have seen is that Hindus are only reactive. Even the number of Hindus in the world is probably not more than one or at the most two! Because, that is purely for census and for Missionaries
and Mullahs to round us up. As many Hindus are that many Hinduism is!

Koti Sreekrishna



Dear Sadaks,
There is line in Bible, ""Empty they self I shall fill it"". This same thing Bagavan in Geetha has said. Contemplate.
Once Sadaks who took to sanyasin sitting inside there hut were arguing about a boulder outside the hut, as the stone boulder was Granite or Not. A saint passing by hearing this argument said to them, "" You sadaks please tell me whether the stone inside or outside"". What was the saint saying?
Jai Sri Krishna

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!
My humble and respectful response to our Brother Dr Ranjeet Singh is as follows:
If we can see commonality among various religious practices, we can be more
understanding and respectful of other traditions and hence can live peacefully
while pursuing our own path. Our paths are generally determined by prevailing
religious practices of the place and time into which we are born. So when we see
commonality, it doesn't mean we give up what appeals to us easily. It is the
appreciation of other paths that is stressed here in our comments.
Life is One, Truth is One, various are Its expressions all lovely and beautiful!
However, if we concentrate on differences, we are likely to be defensive and
fight for wrong reasons!

What is common among human relationship is Love which when recognized as the
most important element, lets us play appropriate roles as men and women. Love is
Intelligence that knows the differences in relationships. Then gender,
nationality, race, don't seem to matter! If Love is lacking then only these
become issues.

In my understanding there are common elements between non-dual teaching of
Vedanta, Zen-Buddhism, Sufi aspects in Islam, Hasidic teachings(I think it is)
of Judaism, Taoism, Contemplative Christianity. It is just heartening to know
such is the case.� Why emphasize differences?

Jesus never claimed to be God, he is the son of God. He had Realized Self. He is
Christ-Consciousness. Bypassing the dogmas, we can feel/experience God, the
Spirit according to Bible, is like Supreme Consciousness, Brahman! God is just
representation of Oneness, not located at a place. We should not go by what
words are used because it depends on the context and the audiences.
The beautiful aspects of Christianity are service to all with devotion, charity,
and sacrifice for fellow human beings. Such qualities are to be admired, rather
than saying they don't have concept of liberation.

When Krishna addresses Him as "Me" in Gita, it means Supreme Consciousness only
speaking through Historical figure Krishna in Human form. This means all can
worship Him in whatever forms they worship with this Understanding in their own

Finally we are not reinventing new paths, we are stressing the importance of
seeing the underlying commonality across all religious practices once the dogmas
are seen for what they are and bypassed! It is inspiring to know mankind
everywhere else have also thought about the same Truth and expressed in their
own language and circumstances! We are just lucky to have Vedas where we are as
much as they are to have theirs!

Namaskar..............Pratap Bhatt


-Shree Hari-

Dear Dr. Ranjeet Singh, It was argued: "There is one God that is Christ", sorry absolute nonsense, and by they way I will show by your arguments my point is valid. Christ kept referring to His Father, and said he could do nothing without His Father, he surrendered to His Fathers will, even when he thought he had been abandoned. Jesus said also, Father forgive them for they ...", he did not say "I forgive you". The nature of Jesus was not taken by Christianity from the bible, but spun by Greeko/Roman neo Pagans.See ex Wikipedia 'Between 325 and 681, Christians theologically articulated and refined their view of the nature of Jesus by a series of SEVEN ECUMENICAL COUNCILS' THUS THE DOGMA. I will add that all Christian festivals are thinly disguised Pagan festivals. Reference to Moksha, Jesus said"The Kingdom of GOD is not coming with signs to be observed ....fore the kingdom is in the mids of you. Also, "The kingdom has come but you see it not". Also I have quoted before the death of Ego, surrendering ones life,.. Read Julian of Norwich insights of of the 'Divine Indwelling'(SELF), I posted just recently. You are confusing, the Mystic with the Fundamentalist, that was the point in my comment. By the way why do I read Sadhaks refer to Lord Krishna as Bhagavan. "As Men come to me...." I could debate and argue this further, but......?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

According to the Dictionary; Dogma is:
1.     a system of principles or tenets, as of a church.
2.     a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.
3.     prescribed doctrine: political dogma.
4.     a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.
In belief system--Sanatana Dharma, we have the freedom/right to interact with Bhagwaan however He inspires us to. Meaning that how we feel about Bhagwaan has a relation to how He(She) wants us to. Ours is not manmade religion with --specific rules. such as--you have to pray so many times a day,fast on certain days or else you must give a percentage of your earnings etc.  Concepts of Bhakti and Prema are beautifully explored in messages of Bhagwaan.  Fear is not a concept created by Bhagwaan rather it is Love of God.The problem is that some Sampradayas too have made up rules and this is what causes problems in Sanatana Dharma. Eg, some say that The Lord will not accept food that has onions and garlic. etc. Rules and more rules which sometime scare people away. We have seen from the Kathas of many Bhaktas that there is no boundary between The Lord and His Devotee--He accepted basi fruit as Sri Rama.  People use isolated verses from Scriptures to create Dogma in Sanatana Dharma and we must be wary of this.
Dogma scares people away from The Divine while Sanatana Dharma is the eternal natural path to Union with The Divine. We get pass Dogma we reach The Divine faster.




-Shree Hari-

Dear Dr. Ranjeet Singh,

I am not sure if you are comparing people of other faiths along with animals, 'no chance of Moksha, not in this life any way'.

Mysticism (as difined in the Wikipedia).

Nullification and absorption within God's Infinite Light (Chassidic schools of Judaism)
Complete detachment from the world (Kaivalya in some schools of Hinduism, including Sankhya and Yoga; Jhana in Buddhism)
Liberation from the cycles of Karma (Moksha in Jainism and Hinduism, Nirvana In Buddhism)
Deep intrinsic connection to the world (Satori in Mahayana Buddhism, Te in Taoism)
Union with God (Henosis in Neoplatonism and Theosis in Christianity, Brahma-Prapti or Brahma-Nirvana in Hinduism)
Innate Knowledge (Irfan and fitra in Islam) Experience of one's true blissful nature (Samadhi or Svarupa-Avirbhava in Hinduism)
According to Jesus, the Kingdom of God is within (or among) people,[3] is approached through understanding,[4] and entered through acceptance like a child,[5] spiritual rebirth,[6] and doing the will of God. (Ex Wikipedia)
The Seventh Heaven is something I know nothing of, But it is in the Kabbalah; apparently, never heard of it in Christianity.

Jesus answered , "I have not a demon; but I honor my Father...."
The Jews  said,  " You are not yet fifty years old, and you say you have seen Abraham? Jesus said to them truly truly I say to you before Abraham, I am....".
"Who sinned that that man be born blind, he or his parents?
"Elijah has come.... and they understood he spoke of John th Baptist,
(Reincarnated after 300 years)
Reincarnation was taught by the western Church until 553 AD.
Can one see that the Mystic cannot be tied up with dogma.
Now can one grasp how the intellect, can mull over the paradoxes twixt dogma and the written, to the point where one has to go so deep with the desire for the Truth, reaching for the Divine, to the point where you fear for your life by what you find, but cannot let go?
Can one understand what I am writing about, do you think that I am a closet Christian ?
I love the 'Divine Beloved'.
29. The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those
who worship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.

With Respect and Divine Love,
Mike (Keenor


"Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe." - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)


My dear mike
love god and thats all u need.
whats this fuss all about.
Raja gurdasani
Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna

In Bhagavad-Gita Lord Krishna explains as to who is a perfect devotee

" Mayy avesya mano ye mam, nitya ukta upasate
  sraddhaya parayopetas, te me yuktatama matah " ( Gita 12, 2 )

which means

"Those who fix their minds in me and are always engaged  in worshipping Me with
the great transcendental faith are considered by me to be the most perfect"

Lord Krishna also described who is very dear to Him.

"advesta sarva bhutanam , maitra karuna eva ca, nirmamo nirahankarah,
sama-dukha-sukhah kshami, santustah satatam yogi, yatatma dhruda niscayah
mayyarpita -mano-buddhir,yo mad-bhaktah  sa me priyah" (Gita 12,,13 and 14)

which means

" One who has no hatred towards any one,a friend to all, who has no ego,who is equal both in happiness and sorrow, who is always satisfied, self contolled, tolerant and who is engaged in devotional service with his mind and intelligence , fixed in me- such a devotee is very dear to Me."

Importance of devotional service is clearly stressed here. Pure devotional service with compassion towards every one is Bhakti Yoga.

" Yajnanam japa- yajnosmi " (Gita 10, 25) which means " Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names" (Japa).
chanting of the holy names " Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna ,Krishna Krishna Hare Hare" is simple and pure

In this Kali Yuga,  this chanting is highly recommended and it is very practical.

Chaitanya Mahaprabhu conducted this sankirtana (japa) yajna five hundred years ago.
This is a direct path to attain the Lord.
Let us chant and be peaceful and happy

Hare Krishna
Prasad.Iragavarapu, M.D
Shree Hari
Ram Ram
The response is more focused on Sadhaks then the Paths....
From Swamiji's teachings -
A sadhak (seeker, aspirant) must get past dogmas and not have insistence on his own regarding any doctrines, opinions, philosophical ideas, religious sect or religious community that he belongs to. Rather he must act in accordance to their teachings. Insistent on opinions and philosophical ideas of his own religious sect, creates animosity with other sects. Thus he is unable to be open minded and free of biases and will be deprived of good learnings from all.
Generally the limitations are our own understanding, not in them. Therefore if any of their actions are not understood by us, and appear flawed to us, then personally we must not pursue and act on those things.
Simply speaking .... Paramatma is only One  -  though Names and Forms / Formless aspects may be different.
There is no gain in any of this. Do not favor one view over another and have no differences. All this is a waste of time. Simply get engaged in God and God alone, as this birth is only for that purpose. Oh Lord, Oh Lord ! Pray that you do not get entangled in dogmas, doctrines, sects, philosophical ideas, Organizations, Groups etc. There is simply no gain in any of this -  says Swamiji.
Meera Das
Ram Ram



Dear Gita Sadhak Bandhus,

In our humble opinion, it is not the common elements that are important but those that are particular. There are many things that are common in humans and animals. Can they, therefore, become the same, or be treated like the same on that account?

It was argued: "There is one God that is Christ", and Hindu says, "Survum Vasudeva Mayam". This is not commonalty and cannot prove similarity of the two.

The neighbour's wife, one's wife and daughter have many elements that are common. They are all females, have head, neck, feet, limbs and feminine organs which are common, besides many others. But, on that basis, can one be replaced by the other? Can the daughter or the neighbour's wife also become one's wife, act as such, or be treated as such?

Similarly, in our humble opinion (the manner in which understood) Brahm and Christian God are not the same. The latter resides in the seventh heavens, while Brahm is every where and in everything. How can the two be the same, therefore?

In Gita Bhagawan Shri Krishna says: Eeshvarah sarva bhootaanaam hrid-deshe Arjuna tishtthati (18:61); meaning thereby, that Eeshvar dwells in the heart of all beings. Now,  who else says that? Do Judaism, Islam and Christianity also say the same?

Then it was also said: � in Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity and in all religions, there are approaches more direct than traditional/ dogmatic/ progressive ways to liberation. But, how can there be ways to liberation the concept of it in various religions; when there is not even a talk of liberation or Moksha in them.

Bhagawan Shri Krishna says: Yaanti deva-vrataa devaan, pitreen-yaanti pitri-vrataah/ bhootaani yaanti bhoot-ejyaa, yaanti mad-yaajino'pi maam// (9:25); meaning: MY votaries, My worshippers, reach Me, and those of  the Devas, Pitris, and Bhutas reach them; not Me.   Then it is unclear, how will worshippers of other reach Krishna then?

We have placed some of the doubts that have crossed into our mind when we read the above post and on account of which we think Sadhna on the basis of commonalty shall not lead to the destination we have chosen for ourselves as Gita Sadhaks. And, therefore, we should stick to the paths shown by the Scriptures and our great ancestors rather than devising or searching for  new ones. Bhagawan Manu, the progenitor of human race, has taught us:

Yenaasya pitaro yaataa, yena yaataah pitaa-mahaah/

Tena yaayaat-sataam maargam, tena gachhan-na rishyate// 4:178

which means, follow in the footsteps of your fathers and grand-fathers, the path taken by your ancestors, the sat-purushaas. So doing, one will not meet any harm.

With apologies,

Dr. Ranjeet Singh


This is my opinion .......

The Great Thinkers of the Past (GTPs) had a powerful sixth sence and intuition.
They observed, felt, experienced in the Nature around, within lifeforms, within
mankind and within themselves something physical, they analysed it with their
acute intelligence and described it to the best of their abilities, knowledge
and language in the form of religious scriptures.

Now we we are more evolved in knowledge, information, means of observations, and
resources of experience. We can as well feel the same physical sense and
interpret it with the help of scientific knowledge and information. We now have
the backing of experimental results and information. I feel, the Great Thinkers
of the Present (GTPs again) should review the past scriptures, instead of
believing in them blindly, and correct them whereever needed.

I am aware of the fact that my views and assumptions will not be easily accepted...but I hope, to some individuals, it may be appealing.

...Gee Waman


Shree Hari   Ram Ram

Paramatma is Eternal, and Paramatma's message (Eternal Laws and Principles - Dharma) is also eternal and unchanging not perishable and limited by time, space, causation.

From Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram   



Dear Sadaks,

Christianity said the following: 1) That world is square in old testoment. Hindu says yes, as it has Chathur Yug 4 Yugas in a square depicted in Vishnu Puran. Quran of Muslims say the world in Char (Four) slots that is 4 Yugas. 2) Christians says NO rebirth or incarnation. Here incarnation is differant from birth. It is saying about Athuman (Holy Sprit) that has no birth. Sri Krishna says Athuman has NO death or births. 3) Christians say,(a) "Love thy Neighbour as thyself. (b) Do not cast your eyes on your neighbour` s wife. (c) Show the other cheek when slapped. (d)There is only One God that is Christ"". For (a) Survam Vasudeva Mayam (b) Kama-Lust when seeing somebody wife Ref Vishnu Puran (c) forgiveness (Sowlabiyam) lived Example Sri Ekanath Maharaj of recent (d) only one Paramathuma. Christians can note Whom is Christ often calls "Oh my father In Heavens" Hindus say God is formless and can attain any form. Muslims pray formless. Some Christians this as well as that.
This is what Sri Krishna In Geetha has said to people "Moodha" (Ignorant).--- Not going in deep in scripts is cause.
 Jai Sri Krishna
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Brother Mike, right you are, some paths are more direct.
Direct paths, as I understand them, bypass dogmas, as useful as they may be for some in initial stages. It is like bypasses/loops built around the city for those traveling beyond the city. In-city and out of city traffic get helped in this ways.
The approach of Vedanta is direct Realization of who/what we are. Therefore, upon such Realization, all our actions come from this Truth of us, and not from not-knowing ourselves. Truth liberates, and ignorance, as much as we say is bliss, nevertheless, binds us.
 As you say in Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity and in all religions, there are approaches more direct than traditional/dogmatic/progressive ways to liberation.
How do we get past dogmas? Again, as you say, seeing the commonality in them helps to a great extent to broaden our visions, so we can drop/bypass non-essentials at the time.
 In my experience, I see more and more common elements in all of them now than before, and if for some reasons, I see conflicting views, I resolve in one of two ways: Either I don't know/interpret in the context/spirit it should be, or it is not relevant at this time for me.
Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt


1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..
3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the
extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.
5. Focus on subject at hand only.
6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address
etc) or personalize message to particular person
7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify
the posting.
8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-
sectarian audience. Limit the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word

Ram Ram
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[gita-talk] Re: Definite Means for Salvation - Insights / Doubts / Agree / Disagree

Shree Hari
Ram Ram
Namaskaar,  NAMASTE Sadhaks !  This is a very important topic.  SWAMIJI pleaded to pay great attention to this topic -  PLEASE RE-READ THIS MESSAGE CAREFULLY AGAIN along with the four truths -
1.  Nothing at all is mine
2.  I need nothing at all
3.  I have not the least relationship with anyone at all
4.  Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own.and if there are any doubts to ask for clarification!


With His Divine Grace...let there be no inertia in this acceptance.   

Ram Ram


Urgent advice to Vishook Ji:

We have dealt with many cases such as yours so this is coming from lots of experiences and similiar cases.

Your dreams and behavior indicate you are suffering from severe depression and you urgently need medical treatment and counselling and support from your guru or Swami or respected elders.

Obviously, you have assumed responsibility but also severe remorse and guilt for the bad things in your life. Also, you are badly affected after being rejected and you are now desperately seeking solutions. I am afraid to say it but one can glean dangerous suicidal tendencies in your writing and appeals for help.

Please forget everything except getting professional psychological help to deal with your problems. Go to a psychologist; go to your guru or anyone who can guide and counsel you; and most importantly, go to Gita.

Bhagavan is there to help you only if you can drop all false ego and pride and seek His help. Read Chapters 2, 9, 12, and 18 in Gita, then the other chapters.

Arjuna was also despondent and almost suicidal but Bhagavan convinced him to get rid of the cowardice and despondency and to act, not shirk his responsibility by running away from his duty and obligation.

You too should do this - seek Him for solace and comfort; get strength and courage from Gita; take hold of yourself and cast aside the weakness, rejection, and disappointment, and grab the reins to take control of your life.

Your well-being and wellness depends on you, not on anyone.So, take care of your life and get yourself back to normal. Read Gita before your sleep and you would never have a
bad dream again! Have faith in Him, go to Him, and you will be cured just as Arjuna was cured of his afflictions..

May Bhagvan Bless us all,

Krishna S Narinedath

Man is entirely independent, eligible, and capable in attaining their salvation.   When Bhagwaan bestows on this Jeev a human body, he also graces him with the rights, independence, capability and eligibility.  Paying attention to this point, therafter considering those objects that are received which will later part from you as "MINE" (apnaa) is the main fault, due to which all the other flaws and faults arise.  In this entire cosmos not even a small thing such as a strand of hair is ours.  Therefore - 
1) By accepting that NOTHING IS MINE, one becomes faultless, free of all flaws
And now when "nothing is mine" then what and why should I desire? 
2) When one accepts that there is NOTHING I WANT, then one becomes DESIRELESS, the instant that he becomes desireless, he becomes "EQUANIMOUS" (Yog, samtaah) and "chitta vritti nirodh" - He attains all -  Righteousness (dharmaatmaa), Yog (union, equanimity), gyaan (perfect knowledge) and becomes Devotee  (Devotion and Worship of God). 

On becoming either of these salvation is definite, because in reality man's true nature "Self" is free of all faults, free of all desires, free from all attachment and Self is a part of only Bhagwaan (ishvar ansh). 





Shree Hari

 || Ram Ram ||

 This is in response to Mr. Vishook Sharma's' note!

Dear Vishookji,

It is amazing that you had these wonderful dreams but in my humble opinion, the dreams are only dreams they cannot be taken as real signals for the things to happen in future.

It does not matter how bad a person may be, in God's court it is not a barrier to spiritual advancement.

In Gitaji Verses 9/30-31, there is declaration from Lord Krishna:


"api cet suduracaro, bhajate mam anayabhak

sadar eva sa manatavyah, samyag vyavasito hi sah"


Even if a man of most sinful conduct worships Me with exclusive devotion, he should be considered as a saint, for he has rightly resolved.


"ksipram bhavati dhamatma, sasvacchantim nigaccati

kaunteya pratajanihi, na me bhaktah pranashyati"


Soon does such a man becomes virtuous and secures lasting peace. Know it for certain, Arjuna, that My devotee never perishes.  

In Ramcharit Manas, thee is a declaration by Lord Rama - (Sunder Kanda 44-1)

"sanmukh hoi jiva mohi jabahi, janam koti agha nasahi tabahi"


The moment a creature turns towards Me, the sins incurred by it through millions of lives are washed away.

These declarations have been proven to be true in our scriptures by many sinners who turned into true devotees of God .The only condition is that they must not change their firm resolve. Turning towards god, and an exclusive love for God.

The requirement is simplicity (Saralta) and sincerity (Chaturai show will not work).

In Ramacharitmanas, Lord Rama says-

"nirmal mana jana so mohi pava, mohi kapata chala chidra na bhava"


Only a man of pure soul can attain to Me; I hae an aversion to for duplicity, wiles and censoriousness.

In my view you are very fortunate that you have been blessed with a good wife. Showing your sincerity in day in and day behavior will earn you her unflinching trust.

Preaching to others without practice on our own does more harm than good to other. It is possible it may do some good to others but to the one who is preaching it will only help to boost his false pride and arrogance which are demonical traits (Asuric Sampati) only.

In Ramcharitmanas (Lanka Kanda 78-1) -

"para updessa kusula bahutere, je acarhi te nara na ghanere"


Indeed there are hosts of people clever in instructing others; but who practice good morals themselves are few and far between.

Pray to Almighty for things to turn around for you!
|| Ram Ram ||     

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura


Shree Hari-

Dear Vishook Sharma,Namaskar,
Since the respected Moderators have put your questions in this thread, I will
thus reflect upon them.
Now you know the Bhagavad Gita better than I for sure, but here is the paradox,
I love GOD, and loved HIM long before I had anything to do Gitaji, do you Love
GOD, not theoretically, but absolutely, where when you think of Bhagwan, a
softness comes upon you, a feeling of love and gentleness pervades your heart,
you become Love, do you understand what Divine Love is?

With your indulgence I will paste in, to remind you, some Shlokas:

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9:

29. The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those
who worship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.
30. Even if the most sinful worships me, with devotion to none else, he too
should indeed be regarded as righteous, for he has rightly resolved.
31. Soon he becomes righteous and attains to eternal peace; Arjuna, know you for
certain that my devotee is never destroyed!

So what right have you be to pass judgment on yourself, and condemn yourself to
damnation, it is almost like you have turned your anger on yourself, so get that
anger under control, (anger management?)

If you have any props like booze, drugs, gambling, unhealthy pleasures, dump
them, there is only one support you need, check out point 4 on the original
question of this thread.

Your dreams are good guidance and I won't dwell on them, they are timely and
have a quality of grace about them.

I am going to give you a tip, and will do my very best to get this point across:
Contemplate upon you sins, feel that energy of remorse, clearly you are
remorseful, contemplate don't rationalize, try to feel that remorse, stare at
your weakness and hypocrisy, don't back off, go with your remorse. Being in a
sacred place may help, best be alone, i.e  alone with Bhagwaan. HE is there call
out to HIM from your heart, what else can you do?

Vishookji you may not realize it now, but you have started your journey Home!

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (K)


Hari Om

Both Sadhaks viz Gauravji Mittal and Vishookji Sharma have raised genuine Qs. I must congratulate them for being transparent and honest. I see a special level of sincerity in both of them. I would urge them to carefully read the advices of our Sadhak Brethren.

Let me first take up issues raised by Sharmaji. You may kindly note that we all sin when not in equanimous mode. Hence if you have made sins of say wife abuse, there is nothing extra ordinary about it. A human keeps doing sins every second- the very non facing towards Paramatma( Vimukhata) and facing towards world is a chain-creator of sins, sins and sins. God resides in Equanimity. Except when you are equanimous your all karmas have some sin hidden in them. Some less, some more, but definitely some.

There are 3 steps now to become sinless. Out of these 3 steps you have already completed 2 , believe me on this.

But you are making one grave and one not so grave but still a serious mistake. Grave mistake is that you are carrying the guilt too much and are having suicidal thoughts- rather than addressing the same, you are getting worried. This is not at all good. Now that proves that you have not yet checked your tendency of sinning. Because in those thoughts too the highest ever possible sins are hidden - suicide; further pains to your wife; wastage of precious human life,disrespect to Self, not considering the world to be divine/testing ground, etc ! The forgetfulness of Paramatma is continuing, unabated.

The second not so grave but still a significant error is your belief that since your wife is still distrustful of you, you will go to hell or you will be considered to be continuing the sin.In fact sins have captured your mind deeply as evidenced by dreams. Sins have, as a law, already made you fearful and restless. Your peace has been snatched away by fear. This is however a good form of fear, ultimately.


(Based on the principles and teachings of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and on verses like 9:30/31 of Holy Gita)

What is silver lining in this cloud is your realisation/inner feeling that you have been sinning. This very fact is the first step of your ceasing to sin. You can't become error free unless you see the error in you, as distinct from you - it is a law. The realisation represents that distinction between ever stainless soul(self) and stains. Ultimately, It is non acceptance of sin in you-because you could see it.
It breaks the assumed affinity.

Next step also you have taken - of telling others/admitting openly that you were sinning and that now you are regretful/remorseful of the same. This puts your sins further away from you. When you regret, your "svabhav" (habit) melts and starts getting changed. A penance or confession relieves you always. Regret is also a way of distinguishing yourself from /non acceptance of error in you. Error when it is seen, goes away from you- It is a law. But regret alone should not be too long and internal to make you incapacitated for ever or generate fear in you. You are fearless by nature. Fear goes when you address it. Saying to others of one's faults is a gem of a quality, very few people know how good is this quality and how decisive this gesture is to become sinless. This also reflects straight away the stainlessness in you.

It is a law - that both PAAPS (sins) and PUNYAS ( virtuous conduct) INCREASE CONTINUOUSLY and automatically when they are kept secret and not revealed to others.

Thus telling others of your sins is literally halting automatic and continuous growth of sins.

Now you are only one step away from total destruction of it- I REPEAT "TOTAL DESTRUCTION "- as if it never was ! That is- a resolution that you shall never repeat it again. Just one firm decision. I SHALL NEVER NEVER ABUSE MY WIFE AGAIN-Come what may. Firm Resolution !

You are therefore adviced:

1) not to ever repeat abusing wife; and

2) turn towards God and seek equanimity.

You in fact have become a huge debtor to your wife. You must start repaying immediately. You must honestly and with complete sincerity now serve your wife in the best possible manner. You must strive to impart maximum happiness to her. MUST . You must happily repay her debt.

Don't worry or feel concerned or judge yourself by the yardstick of her pardoning you or not or of her trusting you or not. Keep serving her, keep serving, serving and serving - as you serve God, considering that to be your DUTY, your goal. See God in her. Welcome each and every disrespect/ignorance of you by your wife and others. Become happy when you get tough non appreciation, reminders of past conduct, sarcasm, or revengeful conduct, or a hard slap on your face. Inside you should be knowing that this disrespect is reducing your debt towards her and is result of your own karmas only and faster and more it comes to you, more graceful is Paramatma towards you . Never ever carry a negative feeling and never deter from your resolution of not abusing again to her. If she becomes soft to you or respectful to you , then don't become happy either and there upon deter from your resolution. In case of difficulty : Cry before God when you are alone.

That puts you in equanimous mode. In sinless mode. In dutiful mode.In no expectation mode. In redeeming the debt/liability mode . In loosening the bondage mode. Towards the original you- AMAL (ever faultless) almost in no time - KSHIPRAM- in fact from the very moment of your aforesaid 2 resolutions.

BUT never think about suicide.Never think that you are sinful. Never worry about hell. Never feel fearful.By the way, fear will go the moment you are dutiful. Always feel you are of God now. Don't expect anything in return to your changed conduct. You simply keep serving your wife, as a sincere devotee (sadhak) serves his God. Surrender lock,stock and barrel to Paramatma. Be fearless. Be worryless. Be griefless. Be doubtless. Don't set any yardsticks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


What has been said is the truth but most people realise this only when
they are on the point of leaving this world.  Hari Shanker Deo


Shree Hari. Ram Ram.

1.Nothing is mine at all
2.I need nothing at all
3.I have not the least relationship with anyone at all
4.Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own.

I have 2 questions.

How can I accept above these facts? Main thing which I do is that I try to remind myself of these facts. Swamiji's books also remind me of these. But still, it is difficult to remove maya i.e. self's identification with body. Hopefully, it will happen one day.

Another question is that how should I act with above understanding. I know I need to take care of family, children and work. But still, more details are needed. For example, in India I have not seen my family doing housework. They will get someone to do their work. But in US, I have to do all house work. I have to cut grass, fix electrical problem, dig holes, do dishes, do laundry etc. I don't do many stuff and my house is mess. Is that OK? How much one is supposed to work? This is just one example. We need to make such decisions all the time. Similarly, at office there are different quality of same work.

Ultimately, nothing is mine. This house is not mine. I can do reasonable work which will pay do. How much effort should I put to improve quality of work?

It is difficult to apply the above 4 principles when we don't truly realize them. We need to make lot of decisions related to application of above principles. I hope I make them right. But many of them are confusing.

Ram Ram
Gaurav Mittal


Dear Moderater,
I send you a message about myself because I need help.There are so many ppl who send many kinds of messages and you ppl give them a chance to find advise.I am waiting and waiting for advise but you did not give me any.I am guilty as hell for abusing my good wife.I am suicidal now with the feelings of guilt. Meditation give little relief in short time period and then I feel suicidal again.I am afraid of dying because I will go to hell. Even the great Yudhistir went to hell for a little bit because he spoke just a little lie.Where will  many of us big liars go then after death.I preach but did not know what I was preaching.Help me learned ones.Tell me what to do?
Vishook Sharma.


Dear Sadhaks,
Ram Ram.
My wife wrote about my abuse to her.I am an arrogant man and always think I am better.I studied Geeta and lecture on it.What I preach was opposite to my actions to my wife.God gifted me a good wife who was devoted but I did not accept her goodness.When I start to read the mails from this group something hit me but I was still full of my own arrogance.I wanted to read more so when I go out and give talks I can show off my great knowledge.One night I had a dream, my wife and I had died and there was the attendance of Death coming towards us. They took me and I ask why they are not taking my wife. Then we saw some celestial beings coming for her. I called to them that I am her husband why are you taking her alone.They said, you cannot  be in heaven because you are a wicked person.I asked them what did I do for them to say that. They said I preach God's name and God's word and yet I abuse my good wife and yet expect to go to heaven? I woke up in sweat and very afraid. I am trying to be a better person since that night.I do not want to go to hell.I started being nice to her.Then I had the same dream again. I said but I am nice to my wife now.They said that only because you are afraid of hell and reminded me that God knows everything that humans do not know.I was shaken. I was feeling that I was doing enough to get to heaven. I decide to talk to a doctor and found out I was a bully with anger problems.I am getting better but  my wife still is afraid to trust me.I did not get the dream again since.I know now that I deserve to go to hell for what I did to my wife.I am ashamed.I will spend my life regretting my actions.I know now that anyone who know Geeta can never be abusive.I deserve to go to hell.My salvation is the result of my actions and because I do bad actions I must get hell as my salvation.
Vishook Sharma

Hari Om

The beauty with great Saints and Sages of Sanatan Dharma has always been that they explain in mimimum words the highest truths to the world at large. Take for example today's sadhak message where in Swamiji has quoted Goswami Tulsidasji Maharaj:

Tulsi mamata Raam se, Samata sab sansaar

Raag na rosh na dosh dukh , daas bhaye bhav paar

Mineness only with God and Equanimity with the world- with no attachment or aversion ; no sorrow of having flaws ; with these attributes one who has surrendered to Him ( depended upon Him) attains emancipation.

What has been left to be covered? How simple ? How easy? VILAKSHAN ! Kitni saral baat ! Kitni Sundar baat !!

The four principles of Swamiji under discussion straight away lead you to aforesaid state !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Dear Sadhak-insight
Read the story of Pandwas and Kauravas. in Mahabharata.Both wanted help from Lord Krishna.Duryodhan asked for the whole bench of soldiers to fight war.While Arjun wanted Lord Krishna God.As God was with Pandvas they won the war . Similalrly if we remember God every day and tell him that every thing you own,I owe nothing then God will endow healing grace upon us. This is what I believe.
Truly yours
Shankerprasad S Bhatt


“Humans have a history of just 7 million years....Humans are evolved animals...there is no need to consider present humans are favoured by `Supreme`... because after another 7 million years… a superior species of animals is going to evolve...
“So go on doing Good Karmas so that your life on Earth will be happier...your `Soul` will take care of itself.."
So stated our brother Shri Gee Waman jee in his post. But he did not tell on what basis had he said so. He had not witnessed them personally seven million years before, nor probably would he be there to vouchsafe them at the end. How could then he say all that?

If what he said was on the basis of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, then our respectful submission is that it is still a theory and not become a Law to grant us the authority to challenge the divine Scriptural truths on its basis, or reject, spurn and repudiate the ultimate truths and words of  Bhagawan Shri Krishna Himself.

Animals are still there for any one to see, as are also humans and the higher beings: the Devaas. How could it be said then that they were evolved from the animals and a superior species of animals would be evolved from them in the future?

According to our knowledge and belief, the site is dedicated to the spread of the teachings and knowledge of Gita and is particularly meant for Gita Sadhaks. Why should we be bringing in extraneous and controversial matters onto it? Why should we be implanting Western theories of evolution while discussing those matters? Would they be of any help and use in the Gita Sadhana? How?

Our humble opinion is that we should not transgress the aims of the site and concern ourselves only with them and the accepted authority, Shrimad Bhagavad Gita.

With apologies,

Dr. Ranjeet Singh
In whateve field you are in, sincerely following the path of Purusharthas or discharging your duties according to the principles of Purusharthas (Dharma, Artha, Kama and Moksha) is the only means for Salvation.

Love and Love alone.....
Paritala Gopi Krishna


Dear sadaks,
1)"Nothing at all is mine'' is perfect fact truth, but many are ignorant. Mr Brila rich man, assets, big family, large friends, hefty bank account, all were there 2 minutes before touch down by the air craft in which he was traveling. But the flight caught fire. 2 minutes later became Zero. Nothing at all was his (Brila)
2) When nothing is mine, then it becomes that"I need nothing at all" automatically.
3)"I have not the least relationship with anyone at all'', means for Sanyas Yog. Not for Baktha or Grahasta. Baktha needs Sat Sangh, Guru, and sadaks to mingle with to sing the glory of God. Grahasta has father, mother etc to whom he has to fullfil his karmic debts not avoidable.
4) "Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own", in other words Sri Radha said, "Sri Krishna is my own" and HE disappeared and Radha had to cry profusely. When nothing is mine- I need nothing at all- I do not have worldly relationship, then Bagavan is in me and everywhere around (omnipresent) naturally.
Jai Sri Krishna


1. Nothing is mine at all---except my Girdhar Gopala
2.  I need nothing at all---My Krishna takes care of all my needs, why do I need to worry about anything at all ? Uski mergi hi meri margi.
3.  I have not the least relationship with anyone at all---does anyone else exist except HIM ?
4.  Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own......... ..Mere to Girdhar Gopal, doosra na koi.
with Love,
A sadhika
Sadhna Karigar
Crystal clear is Sadhna jee's understanding  of Love ..................... doubt can never arise ,should Krishna sanctify nari 's   narinder-ness ..................
Krishna is my Life, Krishna is my Being

Krishna is my Breath, Krishna verily  my Consciousness

Krishna is the heart yearning for Fulfilment

Krishna himself the fulfilment of Love

Krishna  is You

Krishna is Me

 Krishna  is The Union of You and Me

 HIS  Gift His  Grace !

Krishna, Krishna, Jai Jai Krishna
narinder bhandari

I would read the same four sentences as follows:

1.  Nothing at all is mine but I am just the same as every other thing.
2.  I need nothing at all, nor does anyone really need me, yet all things are
3.  I have not the least relationship with anyone at all, yet each one in the
universe is my closest relative.
4.  Bhagwaan (God) is my own as wllas of everyone else: in Bhagwan we exist and
But there are other principles as well.
How I wish, I could perfectly practice at least the above four simple principles
all the moments of the rest of my life.
May God bless me in my desire to achieve that state.
  Basudeb Sen
Hari Om

Sadhak Ravi
Erraboluji ! Your message is understandable! The message of Swamiji on
the other hand is divine and COMPLETE ! Even a word from Him can not be
incomplete, here there is a whole page !! You are not able to fully
understand the completeness merely because you have erroneously
presumed that by this message, what is contemplated is "throwing of
things (physical disconnection with worldly things) from possession"
and " physical disconnection with worldly people"! It is not so. You
have to renounce "importance" only thereof internally at
mind/intellect/antahkarana level and become detached by "bhavas" (inner
sentiments) and not physically. Once you grasp this, and read Swamiji's
message again, it will surely appear COMPLETE to you.

 Shri Anil Bhanot ! Stay put in this Satsanga forum as you have been staying since long. "Kabhi to Deen
Dayal ke bhanak padegi kaan" ( Some day surely the sound of your presence in Satsanga will reach the ears of Paramatma and His
compassionate and benevolent eyes will turn towards you) !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Jai Hanuman

would often say that one teacher narrated whole day to pupil the
mathematics formulae reg multiplication. When in the evening teacher
asked the pupil as to 16 multiplied by 2 is how much? Pupil replied - 8

Wamanji ! How can you make good karmas by ignoring your
soul as you are soul only ? "Conscience" is a fragment of soul only
which guides you to do good karmas. Soul is not a separate entity than
you. You are soul not BMI. How can you keep yourself in bondage
thinking "soul will take care of itself"? Are you body and not "soul"?
If you are not "soul" then who is "soul"? Some ghost? Some vampire?

needs salvation from body because with the temporaryness of body ,and
mineness with body the permanency of soul and mineness with Daddy the
great is forgotten.Hence container has had blinding effect on the soul.

The Question of "body worrying about salvation of the soul" does not
arise, because body is inert and cannot worry at all. All worries
belong to Jeeva only. Mind , body and Intellect (BMI) is not "you".
They are container. You are resident in container. This is fundamental

Humans are not evolved animals. They become animals
later on when they disrespect human birth. It does not matter to you or
me as to what happens after 7 million years and as to how a superior
species of animals is going to evolve. Already enough wait of such type
has been made by all of us, and we should wake up now from sleep of
ignorance- now that we are humans. We should worry for our emancipation
rather than waiting for 700 million years to admire what kind of
superior species are going to evolve. Whatever kinds of animals are
here at the moment , we have to get rid of them and reach unto the
loving arms of Daddy the Great.Already for millions and trillions of
eons and ages we have wasted in admiring the evolution process.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Narain ! Narain !!
Sadhak Ravi Errabolu! Message of Param Shraddheya Swamiji is complete in all respects. Your message is also not wrong. Only thing is that you have not gone deeper and your association is not continuous. You need "things" is your assumption only. The fact is that your needs get supplied to you without your taking any responsibility or assumung any need for the same. Does a child assume any need for himself/herself ? Still the necessities get supplied. Here the deliberations are at the 'highest' level- realisation/benediction level. In reality, your need is not "things", your real need is "Paramatma" !  Once you say you see Bhagwaan in all, then the last para observations of your message become redundant. The very notion , wife/children , mine or that of other, you have to ultimately relinquish. Had you really felt the way you have expressed in message, the divine message of Swamiji Maharaj would never have appeared incomplete or dangerous to you. There is hidden "need" of worldly possessions and people inside you, there is an importance inside you of them still in you, which makes you react in this manner. It may be subtle, but it is there definitely. Satsanga/ Such succint messages of Swamiji are meant to take that thorn out of your person. REMEMBER: Once you depend upon God, dependency over things ceases entirely. It cant be that I depend, still things are necessary !
Narain ! Narain !!
Naarad N Maharishi

Jai Shree Krishna
This refers to message of Shri Anil Bhanot ! Calling to a Saint of the level of Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj to be a "fakir" in fact reflects "fakirpan" of  the caller only.  "Fakir" though it means "detached" in a sadhak's language but it also means very poor /pennyless / worthless in the language of lay man. It is a sarcastical remark by a person who himself is very poor. Poor by conduct, poor by thoughts, poor by bhavas, poor by achaar and poor by vichaar. As Swamiji would often say as you are so looks the world to you. Anilji must introspect a simple fact. IS HE NOT CONSTANTLY READING GT MESSAGES ? Yes ! He is !! By love or hatred or sarcasm. Has he been out of this Divine web site ever? I saw his similar messages in the past also. ( I made my own thorough research when I decided to participate actively in deliberations) Now he is attached to Satsanga. He will definitely reap its fruits. Even the sinner most, if he ever attends Satsanga gets benefitted. Sure! It is like doing "Ganga snaan" ( Taking dip in Holy Ganges) . Some do snaan in " Vaisakh" month (May/June) when Sun is fiercely burning. When you take dip, your entire body feels cool and blissful. If you drink some water, there is soothing relief to the whole body and soul. Another is in "maagh" month ( January/Feb). At that point when you enter Ganges , you are frozen. Entire body shivers.Your hands and fingers become movement less. You try to get out of water as early as you can. Both "snaans" get you same result. But how painful is "maagh" snaan ?
Shri Anil Bhanot ! Never forget that God never pardons disrespect to His Devotees. He may pardon disrespect to Himself but NEVER NEVER to His Devotees. Why are you sinning for no apparent reason? As a habit, is it? If you dont agree, say politely, give reasons, seek clarification. Why sin ? No ! Brother !! As a habit you should not sin. There is an idiom - " ANDHE BINA AWADE NAHIN, ANDHO DEETHO SUHAVE NAHIN" . Without blind person as a friend you do not relish, and as soon as you see him you hate him. Same is the state with you. Without reading this Divine Site messages you dont appease. You must read. And the moment you read, you become full of hatred. Any way, I can humbly remind you that talking ill of Saints and Sages is a kind of sin, which is not forgiven ever by God. Take this into consideration.
Swami Rupesh Kumar


Dear Sadhak,

1. Nothing is mine at all---except my Girdhar Gopala
2.  I need nothing at all---My Krishna takes care of all my needs, why do I need to worry about anything at all ? Uski mergi hi meri margi.
3.  I have not the least relationship with anyone at all---does anyone else exist except HIM ?
4.  Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own...........Mere to Girdhar Gopal, doosra na koi.
with Love,
A sadhika
Sadhna Karigar

The message is so perfect.. How to add to such perfection? Knowing that one can so easily attain emancipation in this manner accepting that Supreme Love, Knowledge, Emancipation makes God Realization automatically attainable. God has declared in Gita "Know that Matter and Spirit are both without beginning" (13/19) "Oh Arjuna! Know Myself to be the Ksetrajna(Spirit)also in all Ksetras(Matter)(13/2)
Accept that you are Spirit (Purusha) and so are different from Matter. Do not accept the relationship that you are (Prakriti) Matter so as to derive pleasure from it. By accepting the relationship of I- ness and mine-ness one commits error. This body is not mine, not I, the world is not ours as we are Gods only.

catherine andersen

With respect I disagree with the four points for salvation and actually is a defeatist attitude of irresponsiblity and despondancy which Arjun was a victim of - this is not non-attachment doctrine of Lord Krishna but a "rejection" doctrine of the fakir.
anil bhanot

Shree Hari  Ram Ram
Anilji, Namaskaar!  You cannot get away by simply making a statement, without pointing out what exactly you consider defeatist, irresponsible and despondent.  Please be brave and if you feel so strongly, kindly take the time to bring out the specific points of concern and don't be sorry!  We will all benefit from these insights as it is all Mangalmai (auspicious).
From Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram

The article is not complete. If a normal person reads this article It is possible to lead him to a wrong direction. They have good intention (please do not take me wrong) and it has to be expressed properly.

<I need nothing at all>
<I have not the least relationship with anyone at all>
<Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own.>

As long as I live in this world with this human body and mind I need the necessary things. I use them and forget them. Basically I am detached with the things I need. We have to depend on God to provide what we need. If we do not have them then we have to go through suffering.

I have loving relationship with people I come across. I do not have attachment. I see that Bhagawaan in those people i come across. I see God in my wife, children of my own.

Bhagawaan is mine and others too. If I think Bhagawaan is mine alone there is always a chance for my mind to think Bhagawaan is not others.
The basic thinking in all these terrorists mind my God is great and not others.

The real definite means of salvation comeS with adopting to true divine love.

Ravi Errabolu
Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar,

When your Body, Mind and Intellect...that is `You`..accept that `your` soul is divine and BMI is the `container` of the soul...then why do you think that the container will have any effect on the soul...Soul is divine, then why it needs salvation from the body...why the body should worry about the salvation of the soul?

This Planet Earth has a history of 450 millions of Earth Years (The time taken by the Earth to go round the Sun is one Earth Year, because the cycle of seasons repeats after completing one revolution. The year of every planet is the time taken for one revolution around the Sun..e.g. for Saturn it is about 22 Earth Years)...out of which about about 300 million years is the history of Lifeforms..bacteria, insects and other animals...Humans have a history of just 7 miilion years....Humans are evolved animals...there is no need to consider present humans are favoured by `Supreme`...because after another 7 million years..a superior species of animals is going to evolve...

So go on doing Good Karmas so that your life on Earth will be happier...your `Soul` will take care of itself...

...Gee Waman
I suggest that next time when you address anyone, you say 'Namaste".  All our great luminaries - Shri Raam, Shri Krishna, Mata Sita, Rishi Dayananda - said NAMASTE.
Dr. Satish Prakash

"The main flaw, which gives rise to all other flaws is to accept the things that are acquired and lost as our own.  In fact, in the infinite universes (cosmos, Brahmaand) even the smallest particle of dust is not our own.    Therefore "nothing is mine at all"  -  by accepting this fact, flawlessness ensues in life..."
Indeed, truly, this is the MAIN FLAW! The "I-ness" and False Ego that influences us to think "we own things." But, how can we, as a practical and pragmatic matter, living in this gross materialistic world cast aside the "I-ness" so that we can come to the realization that "nothing is mine at all" ?
Start by studying and living Geeta; no just studying, reading, and discussing, but actually living according to the principles and teachings of Geeta.
Ram Ram
Deosaran Bisnath


Shree Hari-

I have a favorite grounding argument for those forcing others to bend their knees to God as they consider others should, who damn people to death or punishment, or to hell and so on, because they will not acquiesce.

I say go to a quiet place on a clear night, lay on your back look up at heavens, and see the tiniest speck possible, and realize that, that tiny  speck, could easily be a cluster of galaxies, whose light started its journey, before the dinosaurs walked the earth.

And ask them, "Do you think THAT which Created and Sustains ALL that ever was, is, and ever will be, needs you puny efforts to bring his Kingdom into being", these deluded souls are completely blind.

'... In fact, in the infinite universes (cosmos, Brahmaand) even the smallest particle of dust is not our own.    Therefore "nothing is mine at all"....'

You see, such succinct comments by Revered Swamiji lights up my soul.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor


:Shree Hari:
Ram Ram
Definite Means for Salvation
Bhagwaan out of His grace has bestowed upon us this human body so that we may attain salvation.  Besides attaining salvation, this human birth has no need, purpose, object, use or concern what so ever.  This body, wealth-possesions, property-house, wife-son etc. whatever worldly things that are there, they all-in-all are acquired and will go away.  A man may become very rich, strong, scholarly, he may hold a high ranking position, may have a large family heritage, but without attaining salvation all these things will be of absolutely no use.   They will be like a marriage procession without the bridegroom, i.e. all these worldly enjoyments and possessions will be useless.   Therefore it is the main duty of a man to attain his salvation.
In this connection there is a vital fact, an extraordinary point and that is - For attaining one's salvation, all of mankind is entirely independent (swatantra), competent (samarth), worthy (yogya), and entitled (adhikaari).  Because Bhagwaan bestows upon us this human body, then with it he also graces us with the freedom, the competence, the worthiness, and the rights to attain  salvation.
Now the question arises that for attaining one's salvation what should man do?  The answer is that if man firmly accepts the following four points with  determination then he will attain salvation -
1.  Nothing is mine at all
2.  I need nothing at all
3.  I have not the least relationship with anyone at all
4.  Only Bhagwaan (God) is my own.
The main flaw, which gives rise to all other flaws is to accept the things that are acquired and lost as our own.  In fact, in the infinite universes (cosmos, Brahmaand) even the smallest particle of dust is not our own.    Therefore "nothing is mine at all"  -  by accepting this fact, flawlessness ensues in life.  On becoming flawless, man becomes righteous, he becomes devout, he becomes spiritual, he becomes a saint.

When nothing at all is mine, then what thing should I need?  Therefore "I need nothing" - by accepting this, man immediately attains a state of desirelessness in his life.  When man becomes free from all desires, man becomes a yogi. In other words, he attains yog in the form of equanimity in all aspects in life. "Swamatvam yog ucchyate." (Gita 2:48). When there is no desires, he also attains Yoga in the form of complete repose of mental disposition (stillness of the mind). "Yogaschittvruttinirodh." (Yogadarshan 1:2)
Man's essential nature is naturally detached - "Asango hyuyam purushah." (Brhadaa 4:3:15). By not accepting a relationship with any object or being that comes together and later separates, he experiences detachment from them. On realizing and experiencing this detachment, he becomes wise (jnani).
Every being is a part of only Bhagwaan  - "Mamevaansh jeevaloke" (Gita 15:7). Being a part of Bhagwaan (God), only God is our very own.  No one else besides God is ours. In this manner, accepting this intimacy, affinity "sense of mine" with God, a man becomes a devotee.
On becoming righteous (dharmaatmaa), Yogi (equanimous), Wise (jnani) and a devotee (Bhakt), it implies his Salvation.   It is not difficult for this to happen; because in reality, man's essential nature is Divinity.  In that Divinity -  flawless, desireless, and detachment are self evident.  And that divinity is a part of Paramatma (God). Therefore it is the aspirant's duty to accept these four facts with a firm resolve.  Then his salvation is definite.

From "Salvation of Mankind" Chapter 5 -  in English pg 66 and "Maanav Maatre ke Kalyaan ke Liye" in Hindi page 69  in  by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram
For ENGLISH WEBSITE please visit: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji. net
For full online discourses in Hindi: http://www.swamiramsukhdasji. org

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Saturday, May 30, 2009

[gita-talk] Re: Money - Insecurity - Why? What is Gita's View on Getting Rid of It?

Shree Hari    Ram Ram



QUESTION: We accumulate money because we feel insecure at all times. Why?  Gita's view on getting rid of this insecurity would be helpful.
Ram Ram
Jay Narayan
vinayak yajnik


Dear Sadhaka, Namaste! I want to express my sincere appreciation and gratitude to be part of the forum. I learned from all of you! Several discussions of late are telling me that this is the time for me to close those topics. I see limitations on my part, to a greater extent, to convey the "Understanding" and also to a lesser extent, it might be inherent limitations of words, and some haste on our part to compare words against own background/vocabulary and be too quick to accept or reject rather than make reconciliation attempts. (My views)  It seems, over the years, I may have bored sadhakas by repeating "Consciousness" in almost all my postings, I am sincerely sorry. All my answers to my questions were answered from knowing just one Truth, the deep rooted meaning of "Consciousness", which I found to be the same as God. I wanted to share that, not to convince "only way". In all my knowing, I only know Consciousness-God in wordless experience. If I cannot use this sacred word, I cannot write anything spiritual. If this sounds intellectual, Vedanta will be intellectual! The experience, of course, is expressed through words-thought-philosophy-vision, for which mind-intellect serves as instrument of God beyond words!!! The answer is communicated by GOD who made mind-intellect for this purpose(satsang is example). I see the Light of Consciousness appearing as the Diversified World, not dual, the world and the Light. The world is manifest God who remains Unmanifest, Being of all, SELF, in the very Maniferst! Wherever and whatever is mithya, separate names/forms, there and there is sat upon which everything is superimposed! This is the final truth to me! Namaskar........Pratap
For Swami Rupesh Kumarji and Other Sadhaks - 
Shree Hari Ram Ram
Statements such as - 
"For God's sake dont bring this chetana ( consciousness) ,
ocean , waves every now and then."
are both disrespectful of other sadhaks and clear expression of personal
opinions and feelings.  If this has been misunderstood by us, you may clarify 
or apologize.  We are unable to review all messages for appropriateness 
and adherence to guidelines.  Therefore we seek your utmost cooperation in strictly 
following the guidelines established for this group.  
Sincerely,  Gita Talk Moderators,  Ram Ram 
Priy Sadhaks
Bhagwanji Said,
Niryogkshemvaan= Donot worry about your holdings
Yogkshemvahamyaham= I take responsibility of all your health wealth .....
Hope it is clear,
Kalpna Dixit

Hari Om

"Developing mineness" with everything is not bad, it is bad only when it is with inert. Developing "mineness with Paramatma" therefore is not at all bad rather IT IS THE ONLY WAY for realisation.

Similarly holding on of"Daivy Sampada" viz values derived from teachings of Saints, learnt from reading of Scriptures and good traits automatically manifesting in you due to your being a sadhak or due to grace of God or due to turning towards Him are never to be renounced/transcended. Sure since they are property of divine, you should not consider them to be earned by you (and be proudy) . But you should hoard/preserve them. They are "Divine Properties" , they are Dharma!! Should you renounce "Divine" Himself? Let them remain with you for ever. They are part of your natural self as they are part of your "faultlessness" ! Their manifestation is automatic upon shedding of evil. Hence, the values/hoardings of assets of ideal conduct should never be dropped- come what may. (It means effectively rejection/renunciation of inert). Swamiji never ever renounced His divine qualities! Why this topic at all should come up? To prove what? What is the Q?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Dear Nishaji,Thanks for showering the wrath of your disapproval as that is the fire thatpurifies my appreciation continually removing my disease, "the ignorance", thedesease you have correctly pointed out.There seem to be again a misnomer that I could be advising or teaching peoplearound ... I am acutely sorry for such misnomer ... As I am no teacher to nobody. No advice at all from my side ... only my loud wonderments...Coming to Shikihidhwaja's case, let me recount what I understood ...Shikhidhwaja renounces everything - I mean everything - very truthfully as aserious seeker. Yet ... there was something missing deep in his heart ... "whereis this Moksha hiding?!" His wife Chudala comes to his help. She suggests him,"Moksha cannot be attained when there are wants!" Shikhidhwaja reflects upon thesuggestion seriously and tells, "No, there are no wants." Chudala says, "But,you want Moksha!!" Shikhidhwaja instantly receives the knowledge and liberateshimself to be THAT where there is no need to have a notion of Moksha anymore. Asfar as there is an attachment, a want, everything remains a notion captive inone's mind. Removal of mine-ness even from the greatest value of all - TheMoksha - becomes extremely essential to attain the same. No wonder why Shankaraexclaims, "na muktirna bandhah" concluding on the self awareness in his AatmaShatkam.I agree with you, when I AM THE SENTIENT, there is no inert. I have no problemthere. I would like to supplement the statement, "there is neither a sentientanymore THERE". ONLY THEN THE SOLE SENTIENT IS A POSSIBILITY. Its veryinsistence makes the same a "concept" or a "notion" to me which in turn keepsits conugate (the inert) alive distinctly as a disagreement in my veryinsistence.I have no problem in what you say. There is ONLY ONE. You want to call it"SENTIENT" -that is fine for me. After all anything that could be ever told/perceived couldnever be anything but THAT. THAT is all that is "good","bad; "sentient" or "inert; ...Namah srikaavebhyo jighaagnsadbhyo mushnataam pataye namah ... I salute themachine like existence, the murderers, the robberers ... I salute you O Rudra!As YOU are The Lord of all ... YOU ARE all. You ARE the "bad" as well as the"good" where there is no meaning for any ... Nama ishumadbhyo dhanvaavibhyashcha... aatvaanebhyah pratidadhaanebhyashcha ... aayacchhadbhyo visrijadbhyashcha... asyadbhyo vidhyadbhyashcha ... aseenebhyah shayaanebhyashcha ... vo namah... YOU ARE ALL where there can not be any dualities and polarities ... ONLY ONE... YOU ... O! Rudra!THAT is verily everything including the void of the nothingness ... nothing canever transcend THAT - Tat u naatyeti kashchana ... Tat u naatyeti kashchana ...Tat u naatyeti kashchana ...How you want to call THAT makes no difference to THAT ... If you want to agree withTHAT, the agreement is verily THAT ... even I want to refuse the same, the veryrefusal remains THAT as such.Therefore, please keep fueling the fire of knowledge that purifies me to leaveme as I am ... AS I TRUELY AM ... O Divine Fire! Let me not harp on who I couldbe body or mind or soul or Self ... inert or sentient ... real or unreal ... letme be what I am ... simply as I AM ...Thank You.Respects.Naga Narayana----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jai Hanuman
Mr Nagaji, As I understand, I don't believe that there is any need of "relinquishing goodness" as it is natural to Self. Self is pure and faultless. Now fault is bad and its absence is good. Hence one is only achieving one's natural self - that is why the qualities of BG 16:1/3 "manifest" in you and goodness becomes property of Daddy the Great/Self.
Secondly, this theory of "ownership" given at the beginning of message does not support the conclusions given at the end of the message.  You can't say, without contradicting yourself:
that a true student does not talk/refer about Guru (Saints/Sages/Scriptures) and presents/perceives/talks/repeats studiously about His teachings, views, thoughts etc and rather presents ( "presents" because in GT forum , we as a sadhak/contributor present only vide messages views) those views as his own thoughts.
That no "ownership" should be claimed over Guru's teachings.

To my limited mind this is contradictory- Because ownership comes the moment you present a thought as your own. Hence it is beyond my mind/intellect. I do not want to dwell upon it excessively , as I know it is a matter of "acceptance" ! I find no danger in claiming even ownership of divine properties/ teachings of Saints and Sages and values emanating out of sacred Scriptures as they are dear to me and are part of my natural self and property of my "sadhya". If there is anything wrong in establishing "mineness" with Paramatma and claiming ownership with Him ( as a child claims with Mom) , then only there is anything wrong in loving, hoarding, respecting, claiming ownership over, establishing mineness with the Divine Teachings of Saints /Scriptures and hoarding values. We have stories of Saints narrated in Scriptures , infinite stories, who held their values (dharma/principles/niyamas) dearer than their lives and closer to them than anything else. We are happy and doubtless with that.
Namaste Jee
Jee Jee

Jai Shree Krishna
We all are in Satsanga here. "SATSANGA"- association with Truth. Hence I will not tell asat (a lie).  The truth is the entire theme of original Q is lost. The very discussion has taken different shape.  Instead of addressing "money", insecurity without it, Why we feel insecure? and Gita's Views ?  we now find each and every message is contradictory and in different direction - nothing but a web of words and sentences.
The topic started with "shelter of money". One Sadhak stated - money is raddi thing . In fact Swamiji many times told that and used "raddi" word Himself for money. Next came a poem praising money and claiming that wherever money is there, Naraina is there. Money and Naraina were inseparable and glorifying and respecting inert.It was stated that since time immemorial fire, water, air etc are being worshipped and only inert is worthy of respect.( Forgetting completely Gita teachings and the fact that  in Vedas , the Demi Gods representing the air, or water, or fire are worshipped, and hence only sentient is getting worshipped).   It was also stated that to respect "sentient" or "sadhaks" is dangerous. ( Forgetting completely that he himself has literally worshipped and bowed before another sadhak in that message and earlier messages- HE HIMSELF). Suddenly, it was also stated that nothing should be hoarded, not even sacred teachings.
Nishaji ! I appreciate your concern. But tell me how one goes ahead? "Acceptance", afterall is always at SELF level only !!
Swami Rupesh Kumar

-Shree Hari-

Dear Vinayakji,

I have been following the ebb and flow of this debate, and sense some have an
implicit love of, or at least rationalization on having or acquiring, a pile of
money, thats fine by me, that's their business.
No point in judging.
Just sometimes someone else does the hard yards for one.
A real piece of advice go and read 'Re: Bhagavad Gita - Daily - II 2:71 II',
(that is the current one), read it in entirety, go have a cup of chi,  or take a
stroll, or water the flowers, and read it again, think about it, meditate on it,
talk about it whatever.
I believe, if you can take on board this article with grace, you will never need
to ask this question again.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).

Radhey Radhey
Swamiji would often talk as to how in Kaliyuga reverse intellect is in full bloom. "VIPREET BUDDHIH" - as refereed in Gitaji 18:33 ! It is clearly visible everywhere. Else why would one feel that the world is worshipping inerts? No ! In reality inerts do not exist at all, where is the Q of worshipping them? They are represented by Demi Gods ! How can you yourself praise fellow sadhaks and tell others that praise of humans is dangerous? In which Scriptures "respect" is prescribed to be given to inert? What was the Question? Where has it reached? Avadhoota Gita !! What about Shrimad Bhagvad Gita? Read this, read that ! Baba ! Have you read Choodala/Shikhidhwaja episode yourself? Read there verses regarding " Diseases of mind and body" in the same Choodala/Shikhidhwaja/Kumbha episode. Respect ( importance) to a non existent thing is a disease !  One should never argue for the sake of arguing. When only SENTIENT is existing in the universe , how can respect or praise of sentient be "dangerous" ? You are sentient only. You are foolishly believing that your existence is based on inert, Prakruti ! Thus inspite of being IMMORTAL you are getting fear of death and are under ignorance that your very existence is due to Prakruti. Is it not a disease ? How can ever existing sentient soul be dependent upon non existent inert? So Simple ! This is how intellect gets hidden by MAYA ( money included in definition of Maya) ! This is disease of mind. I pray Learned Sadhaks seriously cure this disease of the ailing souls. Give now bit of a sympathy  forgetting childish remarks reg hoarding of values. Darkness is too thick. Sure, willingness is needed at both ends.
Radhey ! Radhey !!
Nisha Chatterji


Dear Ms Shashikala,

Thanks for your frank response. I used the same vocabulary that was there in
your own suggestion. I thought that way there would not be confusion at least
this time! Anyway, let me explain.

To me, "HOARDING" the way Swamiji used in the paragraph you posted means the
following: "Claiming ownership on anything that is not mine with an acute
intention of protecting its existence with a single objective of promoting its
utility to promote the system I assume to occupy in return". This is the
context, I kept using the phrase "urinating to mark territory" often. In other
words, hoarding meant to me "ownership" - be it by arrogance or by passion
knowingly or unknowingly.

With reference to Swamiji's teaching, why do you (and many others) come to a
polarized notion that I am suggesting to reject the same??!! I am amazed by the
way simple statements could be so twisted.

Hoarding values in the above context means "development of the delusive
mine-ness with same" - that is as "bad" as developing mine-ness with anything

Studying Swamiji's teachings objectively without developing any subjective
notions reveals The Truth in his teachings. Same way, keeping our transactions
with the world objectively without developing any subjective notions in terms of
passion, emotions, relations and other forms of ownership reveals THE SAME TRUTH
as well. In fact, all the teachings of Swamiji, as I understand, focuses on this
Then, if we do the same toward his very teachings, ... that to me is the biggest
mistake we could ever commit.

Anything and everything HAS TO reveal THAT, The Absolute when our transactions
with the same is transparent without any tinge of subjective projections and
distortions due to our perceptorial limitations - THAT IS THE LAW, because THAT
IS EVERYTHING; be it the Prakriti, Purusha, scriptures, saints, all human
beings, animals, plants, inert such as water, air, earth, fire and space …
Hoarding anything is bad because it promotes the false notion of ownership in
one's perception promoting the belief of what we "see" as the truth concealing
The Real behind our notional perception. .

Therefore, perpetual correction within is essential for a spiritual seeker as
one could easily mislead oneself under the cover of the so-called "values".
Dropping mine-ness on the already rejected  aspects (the bad things) is very
easy … dropping the mine-ness on the coveted values (the good things) is
extremely hard - the outburst in this forum from the revered fellow seekers is a
No wonder why The Death spells out its caution to Nachiketa: "Kshurasya dhaaraa
nishitaa duratyayaa durgam pathastatkavayo vadante", spiritual seeking is like
walking on the razor edge, be careful. That is all I tried to tell. There is
nothing called good or bad anywhere except in our perception. Therefore,
correction within is all that matters. WHAT I AM TRYING TO LEARN FROM SCRIPTURES
AND SAINTS SUCH AS SWAMIJI IS: "Do not try to escape from a seeker's
responsibility of self-cleansing by making something else a scape goat which is
easy ... but dangerous."

fellow seekers) is a live testimony for this great truth - everything (even the
great teachings of all the scriptures) belongs to the world and never make any
attempt to develop mine-ness with any. In fact, every sentence that has come out
from him emphasizes this to me - never develop mine-ness, and never let I-ness
grow whatsoever is the circumstance BECAUSE NOTHING CAN BE OWNED. I cannot see
anything but self-correction in all his teachings. I am completely taken aback
how this could be annoying to many of you who show so much respect for him.

A true student would not repeat what the teacher says - he/she would always say
what he/she understands in all sincerity. Repeating teachers words studiously
does not necessarily make one a true student. Therefore, please do not think
that one is not a worthy student just because the teacher's words are not used
verbatim. One who reflects the teaching in sincerity is worthy of being a
student ... I am sincerely thriving to be one to Swamiji ... to many great souls
I have witnessed ... to many great souls I have heard of ... to many scriptures
I am blessed to study ... to everything I could ever perceive ... and to the
universe .... that is all.


Naga Narayana.

Jai Shree Krishna
The queries of Pratapji should be addressed. At the outset let me state that "VASUDEV SARVAM" is not a subject matter at all of "karma" or "thoughts" or for that purpose any "karan". It is a feeling, an experience, an attitude. Hence much of what Pratapji has written becomes INAPPLICABLE . Where does the Question of acknowledging or not acknowledging it to be difficult comes where it is not at all a subject matter of a "thought" or "karma" or utilisation of mind/intellect ? It is an "ANUBHAVA" ! It is absolute. IT IS EITHER THERE OR NOT THERE. It does not come to you by any sort of planning or sadhana. You simply start realising that everywhere there is Paramatma ! Who has told it is difficult? Jee Jee Shashikalaji told that those people are very rare and that is what Gitaji also told. Once Gitaji tells that whether you acknowledge or not acknowledge- how does it matter? It is another matter that neither Gitaji nor Jee Jee Shashikalaji told so. Because you took shelter of inert mind, that this thought crossed your mind if I acknowledge it to be difficult , whether it will become difficult. To see Paramatma in all is not difficult, the person who sees that is rare. How can you realise " VASUDEV SARVAM" if you are applying your mind into methodology of the same? THINKING does not establish hold.
A reference to "CONSCIENCE" everytime when you encounter unpleasant people or unpleasant things or unpleasant happennings, and an acceptance by self that every where there is Paramatma MAY help you better than thinking about the concept, arguing about it, applying the intellect, trying to go deeper into theorum etc. You just get going. Take enemies, first. Start seeing God in their even violent actions vis a vis you. Your mind should not be working to find faults in others. Your mind should be positioned in equanimity ( first step) to "feel" the Paramatma every where. TAKE HELP OF CONSCIENCE ( Viveka). Dont read a statement , say of Jee Jee and think how to now create the next message for posting ! ( Take this observation constructively- rather feel it) !! YOU START FEELING RATHER THAN THINKING ! For God's sake dont bring this chetana ( consciousness) , ocean , waves every now and then. If you are really serious then go along the above lines. May be I am lucky. Feel yourself to be totally novice. Remember only God and have a feeling towards the world as having been made by God.
Swami Rupesh Kumar

Swamiji Rupeshkumarji,

Thanks for your gracious consideration on my potential error in suggesting "not
to hoard anything including Swamiji and his teachings". But, I beg you to grant
me the privilege for concluding on my statement myself. Making a blanket
conclusion on somebody's "blanket statement" leads to resonance in the very
error making it unpalatable.

AVADHOOTA: O immortal One, yet looking at inert with such attachment, affinity
and praise appears as holding deep desire within.

Is the Avadhuta blaming the inert or alerting himself of the potential misnomers
one could develop toward the same? I think the wise Avadhuta refers to the
second as the first has no use or meaning! Labeling the inert as anything does
not bring any change within ... change within alone can bring change within. If
you think the inert can bring change within ... you are contradicting yourself.

Bhaj Govindam: " Drishtva maa ga mohavesham" ( Dont look at inert with affection
and attachment) !!

Is Shankara telling the inert this or the "sentient" human? Who is he teaching -
fellow humans or fellow stones? Who is the beneficiary? Who needs this advice?
Stone or human?

Rupeshkumarji: Praising Mother earth for wealth being showered on us !!
praising "insentient" Prakriti or the self-proclaimed "sentient" human?? I hope
you do see the danger in what you are recommending ... I truely hope so. ...
Give reasons and explain ...

Thank you very much for the warning. Yes I am aware of what was mentioned -
"praising the Prakriti is the only way of returning and relinquishing all the
ownerships that we have imbibed all our lives". If you have any other way, pl.
let me know. If you want to quote Swamy Ramsukhdasji, every other sentence in
his teachings tell this "return what belongs to the world back to the world".

Praising the mother nature reminds me how everything belongs to her and not me.
That removes all my fears of loosing anything as it reminds me that nothing
belongs to me in the first place. On the other hand, the same reminder keeps a
perpetual awareness of non-belongingness within revealing the infinitude of
freedom and completeness within ... revealing me the eternity that I AM. One who
appreciates the inert (Avidyaa) as well as the sentient (Vidyaa) in union with
truthful sincerity attains THE UNITY of all:

Vidyaancha avidyaanch yastadvedobhayam saha |
Avidyayaa mrityum teertvaa vidyayaa amritamshnute ||

Therefore, my dear friend, I do not see any difficulty in praising "the
insentient Prakriti" - in fact, I feel so much aware of myself as THAT through
the same. I hope that satisfies your quest for the reasoning behind what was

Regarding your conclusion on my statement that "on other hand you are telling us
to not preserve even teachings of  Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj
?  We should forget the teachings of Swamiji , is it? !!!!" IS TOTALLY

background for one's understanding, please ask for clarification. That is
seeking. Judging somebody just because something does not makes sense - that is
anti-seeking. I am nobody to teach anybody ... but, the outbursts of labeling me
warranted the same ...

I appreciate your generosity to let me conclude on my behalf myself:

MEANT WAS JUST THE OPPOSITE! Pl. refer to my response to Ms. Shashikala on what
I mean by "hoarding".


I appreciate you appreciation.


Naga Narayana





Jai Shree Krishna
Divine ! When I considered becoming member of this GT Group , one of the biggest propellant for me was to notice coincidences (  Divine Will) clearing emerging. I found that many times the Question raised gets answered simultaneously. That is hall mark of Satsanga. What will you call it except,  Divine ?!?! We are amidst Satsanga of really high order.
Mr Naga's  few observations:

Remaining AVADHOOTA O immortal One, yet looking at inert with such attachment, affinity and praise appears as holding deep desire within.  Read over :  Bhaj Govindam ? " Drishtva maa ga mohavesham" ( Dont look at inert with affection and attachment) !! Praising Mother earth for wealth being showered on us !!  praising "insentient" Prakriti or the self-proclaimed "sentient" human?? I hope you do see the danger in what you are recommending ... I truely hope so.
Now keep this visible ( and not bury it under ego) as it is a law that if a fault is visible, it is "going away" from you. Humans ( sentient) should be praised, O Jeeva ! Know that inert does not exist at all. It exists only in sentient.  Order of inert as stated by a Sadhak, live stocks, people, sadhaks, Paramatma ! That is the touch of Swamiji..

You expressed danger in what other sadhaks have said.  Kindly give reasons as to why you see the danger following a particular advice and why what is being proposed by you is beneficial.  Satsanga must be supported by reasoning, not by making blanket statements. Now give reasons ! Give reasons as to how "sentient" changes colours by "self proclaimed" or "non self proclaimed." ? Give reasons and explain as to  what are your theories and how they are beneficial to this forum?

You said "Beware my sister ... hoarding values are as dangerous as hoarding money for a serious seeker. Hoarding glories of particular entities - be it gods, be it nature, be it scriptures, be it rituals, be it relations, be it teachings, be it the gurus,... be it Swamy Ramsukhdasji' s teachings ... be it Swamy Ramsukhdasji himself! I sincerely suggest to study Swamiji's writings with care without any idolization"

Any objection to the above statement will be justified. It is sheer injustice to this Divine Forum to suggest that "values" should not be "hoarded" ( preserved) ! Arey ! On one hand you are glorifying Prakruti so much ( Refer above) and on other hand you are telling us to not preserve even teachings of  Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ?  We should forget the teachings of Swamiji , is it? !!!!

Swami Rupesh Kumar
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
I am so grateful to all sadhaks for sharing the wisdom, Grace is flowing through and through upon us! just few observation on "Vasudevah Sarvam"!
The way I see, it is never too late to come upon the truth of "Vasudevah Sarvam".
I appreciate the caution as stated by Shashikala Bahanji, though!
Sadhakas, don't you also think that our acknowledgment of it being difficult stops us from exploring it further? Don't we need to take next steps, if path of knowledge appeals to us?
Don't we need the courage along with caution as mentioned in Gita/Upanishad: "Naye atma bal-hinen labhyate"?
Now the Crux: In fact we have never experienced "inert",  nor can we ever!
Everything and nothing( its absence) is only CONSCIOUSNESS of that! An object regardless of what we call it- inert or sentient, merges into CONSCIOUSNESS at the moment of its perception and then only it is verbalized/conceptualized as "inert" or "chaitanya" of which we take body-mind as subject-knower, another concept.
THE ONE and ONLY Reality thus gets divided as subject-object-knowing! This is Tripura Rahasya(secret of triad)!
That which knows through us IS CONSCIOUSNESS and what is known by us is also same CONSCIOUSNESS as its Vastu or stuff!  "WE" are Ocean of CONSCIOUSNESS, it is true, sadhakas! Can Ocean ever know wave as consisting of other-than-itself?
If wave doesn't see this fact, not interested in it, it sure can THINK being "other"!
This "thinking" establishes its hold on wave(non-existent-me) throughout the life until Gita and the likes of Swamiji reminds us "You are the Ocean, You are ME"!
This is Vasudevah Sarvam" as I understand!
Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt
Hari Om

Message of Prasadji is really very timely. Welcome, Prasadji. Keep contributing. The fact is that Gita, Ramayana, Upanishads, Saints and Sages, Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj, all want us to renounce inert- no two opinions about the same. Whoever gives a contrary opinion is certainly has not grasped the message of Sanatan Dharma. He can't be Yogi, he can only be Bhogi.

In this forum, there is no place for attachment or aversion. One has to rise above the same- Equanimity. We talk at very subtle level here and when we write we assume (and we must assume) that we are "sadhaks" only and not anything else.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Narain ! Narain!!
The topic of "money" is going to get hot. After all "Devi Maya" pervades the entire regime of Prakruthi. She is the Queen. " Devi hyesha gunmayi mam maya durtyaya" ( BG 7:14). This Devi captures the egos/intellects/minds all so effortlessly. Poor Narayana gets hidden in the ignorance, in the smoke of  addiction to the inert, and in the darkness of BG 18:33. Yes ! Divine Sadhaks !! Kaliyuga indeed is spreading its dark wings over the Jeeva! PRESERVE THE VALUES, Dear Sadhaks ! HOARD THE VALUES NOT THE MONEY ! There is nothing dangerous in  holding on to the teachings of Saints and Sages. The divine teachings of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj are to be held on. They must never be forgotten. Had there been the provision or need for "relinquishing the goodness" , in Gita first three verses of Chapter 16 would not have been there.

Mr Naga Narain please clarify as to what you mean by not "hoard the values" of Saints and Sages, Swamiji in particular for duties sake, for sadhak-hood's sake for the sake of humanity.

Narain ! Narain !!

Naarad N Maharishi

Namaste !
Moderators you need to play a more decisive, stronger role.  It is unfortunate to allow such discussions that seem to indicate "shedding goodness"  in some messages glorifying evil... as seen in past several discussion around drugs, abortion, and in this one money.  Many posting and remarks should be better screened.  There should not be double standards. I have therefore stopped actively participation after earlier discussion around drugs.  I de-subscribed also but rejoined because Sadhanaji requested me for the same. It is overall a good forum.

Respects to all.

Audrey Rodrigues
Jai Hanuman

Mr Naga Narain! I refer to your advice to me reg non hoarding of values, teachings of Respected Swamiji and reg my reading of Chudala/Shikhidhvaja story in Yoga Vaashishtha.

I am sorry , even a thought to renounce goodness, rich values, heritage, and of not preserving/hoarding Swamiji's teachings to us, and not seeing Paramatma in Him (idolisation referred by you) - is unacceptable to us.

Namaste Jee
Jee Jee

Raam ! Raam !!
This is Kaliyuga !  Even the "values" which we have inherited from our parents, scriptures, Saints and Sages etc should be dropped.  Divine G T Moderators keep saying - Pls dont  condemn other Sadhaks, pls dont comdemn other sadhaks. Here the very "Siddha" , Param Shraddheya Swamiji Maharaj has not been spared, right under the nose of GT Moderators.  Now the motives are getting directed towards even Swamiji's teachings. .
 Saints have said :
( The labourer of Maya , money, becomes Jeeva ! How then shall he know what is devotion ? ).
ABC of Hindu Sanatan Dharma is that  "Inert" does not exist, Only "sentient" exists.
Anirudh Joshi


Dear sadhakas
Hare krishna,

"Idam adya maya labdham,
Imam prapsye manoratham,
Idam astidam api me,
Bhavisyati punar dhanam" (gita 16, 13)
Which means

The demoniac person thinks
" I have so much wealth now,
I will gain somemore as per my plans, so much is mine and it will increase in the future, more
And more. "

" Sama dukha sukhah sva sthah,
Sama lostasma kanchanah" (gita 14, 24)

Which means

" Who regards alike happiness and distress, who looks upon a
Lump of earth, stone and a piece
Of gold with an equal eye,
Such person has transcended
The modes of nature"

Hare krishna,

Prasad iragavarapu
Jai Hanuman

One of the most essential things to achieve on your path to emancipation is disconnection with inert. Money is inert. You must renounce the "SHELTER" of it. The question also is with that reference only.

It is not material whether inert is good or bad, poor or rich, creation of Daddy the Great or creation of Mom Nature, grace of God or of Demi Gods; result of good karmas or of sins; medium of doing well to others or of causing violence to others ; necessary for yogakshema or not ; available in plenty or not; black money or white money ; in bank or in asset; you have to get rid of it at "bhava" (inner sentiment) level as well as at utilisation for "me and mine" and above all at SHELTER level of it . You must renounce the liking for it. You must reject the importance of it inside you. You must not consider it to be worth striving for unless when that is with reference to your performance of "swadharma" ( prescribed duties) . A Bhakti Yogi and a Jnana Yogi do not even need to throw a cursory glance at it leave aside striving for it. It is only "karma yogi" who may have to strive reasonably for it as a part of duty. That too for "others" not for "me" or for "mine". There too he has to understand that receipt of this is subject matter of "past karmas" and only "putting justifiable efforts for it" (dharma) is subject matter of sadhana. Inside your heart you must remain detached with it. You must have your eye set on "sadhya" ! You must not have any liking for it. You must see faults in it- dukh doshanu darshanam, if that helps in renouncing its importance. Scriptures, Saints and Sages have done that. Nothing wrong in that.

You must relinquish it physically for welfare of others, even otherwise. That you won't to be able to do if you have strong liking for it or you consider it to be a worth talking about medium of providing you "any shelter". Hence with reference to taking shelter of it- it is always a most third grade/inferior medium - irrespective of whether you are yogi or bhogi ! Because better than that is shelter of say land or gold ( inter-se inert level too). In inert also, among constituents of "artha" also, there is classification of superior/inferior etc. ( Sthawar/ Jangam). Some artha is live stock. Some is fixed. Some is floating.

I again say and I have said time and again in the past, bringing "Vasudev Sarvam" so fast in deliberations is not correct. That concept is too different to be used for establishing importance of inert. There is no Vasudev in it, if it is seen with a liking. Existence of Vasudev in it does not make it important. For that matter, what does not consist of Vasudev? Vasudev only has to be in focus. Goddess Laxmi and "aishwarya" and "shree" all have to be forgotten. Rare, very rare are those who can fit in to experience that way. Else it is very easy to say, since Vasudev is in it and hence shelter of it is the shelter of Vasudev. It becomes non sensical - the very distinction between inert and sentient; between sat and asat; the very presence and need of discrimination (viveka). No Dear Sadhaks ! It is not that easy- sadhana or knowledge or emancipation. At least not this much easy. You can't first discriminate and then mix inert again with sentient because of - Vasudev Sarvam. You don't know about the very concept then.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

Dear Vyasji,

Thank you for offering me the nectar of Swamiji's wisdom - "When a person is
freed from desires, ALL OBJECTS GET PLEASED with him".

Yes I do take it. The reason for that is that the realized one transcends all
the self-proclaimed territorial existence altogether.

Yastu sarvani bhutaani aatmanyevaanupashyate |
Sarvabhuteshu chaatmaanam tato na vijugupsate ||

He sits in the very treasury of ALL. What else could be ever there for him to
desire for?! When he is THE VERY WEALTH, Bhagavan Vasudeva, what can dare to run
away from him??!!

Yasminsarvaani bhutaani aatmaivaabhoodvijaanatah |
Tartra ko mohah ko shokah ekatvamanupashyatah ||

When the very Lord has established in one, the whole universe is established in
the one. Then, how can any corruption enter The One in terms of desires and

Yes! I do take IT!! Thanks for offering it though.


Naga Narayana.


Hari Om

Discussions on topics like this ought to become involved as what is at the centre of these discussions a Jeeva's attitude /bhava towards as peculiar a thing as money. The term "Maya" has traditionally been associated with "money". Indeed money has capacity to occupy human senses , mind, intellect and ego to the tilt. Real sadhaks should observe keenly with an equanimity. We all are Jeevas and we have by Divine Will accumulated under this forum to "deliberate reg Sat"! Satsanga !! Money is an important topic to deal with.

Any distinction between "attitude/bhava of Jeeva towards money" and "money itself" is non sense, as it is only the attitude which can ever come in focus, discussion, and importance not the alone inert (non-existent) element itself. It goes without saying, repeating and insisting that if money is stated to "inferior" (raddi) or "superior" ( bhag of Bhagwaan), it is not "money" which is inferior or superior but how Jeeva considers that to be . When I said money is raddi (third grade, most inferior) it was from the point of view of Jeeva. In my point of view, as I have read/seen and understood what is my bhava towards money is represented by my observation- that money is raddi. And I stand by it ! Similarly money is excellent, bhag of Bhagwaan is also essentially Pratapji's bhava only towards money.

Hence talking about subject matter alone without reflecting "attitude/bhava" towards it, is IMPOSSIBLE. Even equanimity is bhava only! Both Mr Naga and Pratapji are unanimous that attitude of individual towards money is determining factor.

Discussions here therefore are only focussing on attitude towards money- always. Ab initio they have been so. So far also ALL participants have reflected their attitude only towards money- It is another matter that some may be aware and some may not be aware of this fact.. The very need of distinction should not arise. If it arises that means it arises out of attitude/bhava towards the same only. Indeed the "maya" of Lord Naraina is "durtyaya" (BG 7:14) !

How can it be money alone ? The talker about money is sentient (Jiva) and Jeevas are different. Hence all discussions/differences/ agreements belong to Jiva only. Money is constant, inert. Some say it is good. Some say it is bad. What difference does it take to money? Difference is among the sentient not the inert? Where is doubt? Who raised the doubt? Why ? It goes without saying.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Thanks to pratapji for an apt appreciation and clarification. Unfortunately, I
am not such a gentleman.

Some sadhakas, particularly brother Vyasji, have shown aversion to the praise of
"inert" and have even declared that praising fellow human beings ("sentient"
sadhakas) is superior to that. Sincerely, good luck there! Have you observed why
the inert is preferred for worship in terms of idols, pictures, etc. in our
rituals? Have you noticed how all our Yangnyas hover around the inert?? Have you
noticed why all our gods represent the "inert" cosmic forces? I recommend the
study of Avadhuta Gita with care.

There seem to be a hype on the glory of the "sentient" as translated to the
"human individuals". My friend, I would like to warn you on this as a serious
fellow seeker. Can you ever see the inert gloat under praise and sulk under
insults? Can you ever see a "sentient" human not gloat under praise and sulk
under insult?? You seem to be lucky in seeing one in Swami Ramsukhdasji ... but
how many can you see more??? I recommend praising the inert with absolute
respect as the Panchagneyas do ... worship The Prakriti which never shows any
reservation to be one with The Purusha all the time! Praise mother earth for all
the wealth she showers on us!! Chant her glory for making our very presence a

Deep aversion is shown toward the so called "money". Have you noticed that
"money" is just a device marking our territories just like a wolf would urinate
to mark its territory. What it really represents is the abundant wealth The
Prakriti showers on us ... be it food or shelter or knowledge ... all belongs to
her ... but we urinate to mark our territory there!!! Who should be praised
here? Sincerely! I am confused ... the so called "insentient" Prakriti or the
self-proclaimed "sentient" human?? I hope you do see the danger in what you are
reommending ... I truely hope so.

Sister Shashikala, thanks for the recommendation on the wonderful article from
Swamy Ramsukhdasji on the dangers of hoarding. It remains a mistery to me how
any meaning contrary to what Swamiji says could be conceived from the posting
that happened to pass through me!!!

But agaian, my dear sister, I recommend you to study the Chudala and
Shikihidhwaja from The Vaasishtha very carefully. Attempting to hoard -
urinating to mark our territory - is, of course, the danger we tread upon some
times knowingly and most of the times unknowingly! Don't you see the same
pattern in the so called serene activities such as Satsang as well. Beware my
sister ... hoarding values are as dangerous as hoarding money for a serious
seeker. Hoarding glories of particular entities - be it gods, be it nature, be
it scriptures, be it rituals, be it relations, be it teachings, be it the gurus,
... be it Swamy Ramsukhdasji's teachings ... be it Swamy Ramsukhdasji himself! I
sincerely suggest to study Swamiji's writings with care without any idolization
... then you see what wonder He reveals through his inimitable simple ways and
examples in living as well as in writing.

I agree Akka. Hoarding is the only problem we nurture within. What is
responsible for that? We or the "inert" things around such as money or knowledge
or power or food or shelter or anything else??

The useful question here is ... whether the agenda of spiritual seeking is to
find a lame excuse to escape from our fundamental responsibility for correcting
ourselves or just to correct ourselves? That is the context in which I learn
with deep respect from our fellow Sadhaka, Pratap Bhat, as all his writings
appear to hover around this core idea most of the times.

Swamiji Rupeshkumarji, in my understanding, Bhagavan Krishna teaches regarding
the attitudes we harbor within toward various things around ... not on the
things around! His Spouse, the things around, is in The Perfection already ...
no need for correction s there. But, the one harping within is not anywhere
close to he same perfection around - that fellow needs correction!! Bhagavadgita
and all other scriptures tell me this univocally - correct yourself!!!

Let me re-iterate for my own sake ...

Correction within is what I need - let me stop urinating to mark "my
territories" ...

And, no correction is needed anywhere else as such - because there are no
territories in Mother Nature in the first place. Yet She accommodates our
ignorance, in spite of the intellect and knowledge She showers on us
perpetually, so compassionately. For me Prakriti is THE LAKSHMI. "Money" is just
a figment of the same in our imaginaion. I recommend you to study the Shree
Sukta with care.

If you think otherwise, Good Luck there!


Naga Narayana


In this world insecurity is increasing and that is why everybody tries to  collect money for the futures safety of the family.The real message is that we have to give a portion on money for the use of down trodden people instead of keeping everything for us,We have not to run after money and wealth.We have to find time to remember God and offer Him prayers.
The money to be earned by fair means by our own efforts.This is the meaning of our life efforts.
Truly yours
Shankerprasad S Bhatt

Namaste, Dear Ones!
Bharathiji's message reflects the practical wisdom regarding anything we call temporary or inert, they deserve our understanding, love and care!
Once again, nothing in the universe that is evil or good in and of itself, specially inert objects! As long as we find the reasons for our misfortunes in things external, we will never find a solution and freedom! Lucky are those who find no faults "out there".
How can we say "money or any inert" is bad or good without bringing the culprit "me", who at least has some sentience to know? Does "money" come and grab us or we are running after it? How can we be constantly too critical of things, too quick? How can we be equanamous if we continue to blame things for our downfall? When we stop blaming, then only we can turn inward where we may find the "trouble maker" hiding!
Equanimity is born of seeing things for what they are, first, without labeling them "good" or "bad", inferior or superior etc etc. This provides for objective space in the conditioned mind, and lands us into safety and security zone by acting with discrimination and dispassion.
Down the road, we may also discover the true meaning of Swamiji's message between and beyond words, that dissociation with inert by Self is realization that it is the case already, not rejection or undermining inert, it is to see experientially that they are all what we are in essence! When devotion flows through us with acceptance of "only God' is mine, none else" the meaning becomes clear that since God is everything, and everything is God at the same time, "everything else" becomes God as one Totality of Being where "separateness-me" loses its independent assertion, and serves the WHOLE! Nature unfolds as it should/does only to serve the Cause!
This is not the case for or against "money"!
Namaskar..............Pratap Bhatt

Shree Hari.
Ram Ram.

We feel insecure because we are attached to inert matter which has no existences (BG 2.16). The body and this world are perishable and we have to leave it in due course of time. Viyog is guaranteed and that makes us insecure as we cannot let go our attachment or self-identification with matter.

Developing nitya-anitya vivek (discrimination between real and unreal) can easily get rid of insecurity. Our self is sat chid anand (eternal, full of knowledge and full of happiness). We are part of Paramatma. We are not this body and our self is not associated with this world. When we develop this discrimination, we stop giving important to unreal. We understand that we are part of Paramatma and we are changeless and eternal. Then, there is no insecurity.

Insecurity can also go away by understanding that Krishna is the Supreme Lord of all worlds and our eternal best friend (BG 5.29). If the most powerful is our best friend and He loves us, then why should be worry. The insecurity goes away when we develop feeling of mineness "apnapan" with Bhagavan. We and everything belongs to Krishna. I am Krishna's and Krishna is only mine.

Swamiji says that the mother loves both good son and bad son. She does not see how much work her son has done while feeding him. She loves him and cares for him unconditionally. Similarly, Bhagavan loves us and ready to do everything for us. But unfortunately, we don't want him. We don't call him as mother. If a child becomes happy with toy or his sister, then mother does not come. Similarly we become happy with material objects. We don't call Him as mother.

Accept that Bhagavan loves us and call Him. Develop the feeling of mineness. Then, this insecurity will go away.

chinta deen-dayal ko man sada anand
Krishna, who is protector of weak worries about us. Mind is happy all that time.

Ram Ram
Gaurav Mittal

Hari Om

I had promised GT Sadhaks that I will give some very commonly unknown principles reg "money" ! At that point I decided to search Swamiji's books and compile a list. But Divine Law is that what you desire for welfare of others presents itself sooner than later. Today's Gita Treatise on 2:70 by Swamiji presents one such "great" principle:

"When a person is freed from desires, ALL OBJECTS GET PLEASED with him. How to know this? We know it because things automatically come to such a person without any effort. The things are eager to approach him for being fruitful through utilization by him"

Divine, isn't it? "Things" becoming "pleased" and getting "eager" ! How beautiful ! To a layman it may appear strange, but to a Gita Sadhak it is not (BG 7:19 read with 9:19) !! This is how money gets "eager" to get a cursory glance from "detached soul" !!

Any takers? Mr Naga Narain?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!
Sadhaks have not glorified "money", and Kaliyuga is not set in either!  I re-read Naga Narayanji's message, and think it is glorifying only Narayana with Laxmiji!
Each of lines starts with "If Narrayan is......Laxmiji is.......If Narayan is.....Laxmi is....."
There are lines like "If Narayana is The Absolute (Para Brahma), Lakshmi is the very desire for attaining the same, Mumukshattva." and so on...
Laxmiji is shown/seen to be in many aspects and never glorified as "money", on the contrary. Laxmiji is worshipped as knowledge, food, Energy-shakti, human accomplishments etc etc. Please check it out.
I read BG Ch 16 as suggested by Swami Rupeshji, and found not a single verse put blame on Laxmi even as "money/Wealth". Ch 16 is not about Money at all. It, rather, describes those who are given to demoniac nature due to anger, lust use unjust means to hoard wealth for sensual enjoyments versus the attitudes of those who are given to Knowledge.
He says "Money, it's possession has been the root cause of many evils and calamity in this world.  It boosts ones pride and ego. It definitely makes one FALL. I repeat FALL." I don't see this to be the case. If some one falls due to "money", how can we blame money?  King Janaka, and many such kind Kings in past and some rich people even today didn't fall, they rather served their subjects, or provided so many jobs to people.
No, money doesn't boost pride and ego, rather, people boost their pride and ego through Money! Poor money gets blame being inert, helpless in the hands of Egoistics!
My respects to Naradji in all humility,  but the way I see is that Nagaji's poetry honors Laxmi-Narayan in all their divine aspects, not "money".
Laxmi represents Aishwarya/Samarthya(Wealth-Resources-Just Power) in all apsects, Bhag of Bhagwaan, and is never inferior(raddi), unless our choices make it so!
Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

Jai Shree Krishna
Bharatiji ! Your statement that Gita never talks about money at all is incorrect. Refer BG 16:12 ( Here Lord talks about the people who 'hoard' money- money in sankrita is referred as ARTHA). BG 16:13 is entirely dedicated to "money" only. Where ever, the word "lobh" ( greed) is employed in Gita , it denotes money only.  That does not mean that your message has any faults. It is a beautiful message. But since we are in a sadhak forum of really very high standard, I must point out as a sadhak should always point out. This forum should never ban pointing out the errors and praising of other sadhaks, in my humble view. When you point out errors, you are dutiful. If we dont point out, who will? Similarly praise is never of "jad" (inert) sharira or name. It is always of "unmanifest" Sadhak. Sadhak is not "body" made of bones and flesh. Sadhak is always "sentient" (chetan) , genderless and a "bhava sharira".
Swami Rupesh Kumar



Shree Hari   Ram Ram
Bhagavaan says -  SARVAGUHYATAM... best of best.and Swamiji emphasizes this point over and over again.. Lord says - Take refuge in ME.  Not of the world, not of this body, not of the family, not of husband, not children, not knowledge, not group, not position, not beauty, not health..NOT MONEY... not anything... dependence, reliance on ONLY BHAGAVAAN.  The Lord says then become free of ALL WORRIES, ALL INSECURITIES... ALL DOUBTS....TOTALLY FREE !  TRY IT !  NOT JOKING.... SIMPLY PLUNGE ! TAKE A DIP,  IMMERSE in the bliss of SHARANAGATI AND BECOME COMPLETELY SECURE ALL THE TIME!   Try it ... you have nothing to loose.   Maa Suchah !    Meera Das,  Ram Ram


Jai Hanuman

How does Divinity reflect in Satsanga? I often found while listening the discourses of Swamiji that He answered a Q which is hidden deep within you without your even asking the Q. I remember me and my hubby used to go to hear Swamiji in person with desire for solutions to our problems and we invariably got right guidance. Invariably, Dear Sadhaks ! The same thing we are consistently observing in this Divine GT Group satsanga forum also. Topic of "hoarding money" gets answered by today's Gita message by Swamiji as under. It is not coincidence. Many times Learned GT Moderators also become divine mediums to bring out topical message:

Consider the following, Dear Sadhaks:

"On the other hand, if they misuse this discrimination in hankering after pleasures and prosperity, they can be more harmful to the society, than even wild beasts. Animals and birds eat food, only to sustain their life, they never hoard. But human beings are given to hoarding, whatever they get. Therefore, they create obstacles to the utilization of those things by others."

What do you say Pratapji? Mr Naga Narayanaji ?

Namaste Jee
Jee Jee

namasthe mr.vinayak, this is my humble opinion. based on your question: it looks like you are addressing the question as general question: Money - Insecurity - why ?   But not everyone thinks that money is insecurity at all. Money like everything else is needed for our living and that is all it is there to it. We take care of some of our necessities thro money, we take care of our body with certain things, we take care of our mind with certain things. Money takes care of the things pertaing to body as well as mind too (in certain things) at a bare minimum level. I have heard many people say: why does some people need so much money..why do they do so many unnecessary things to aquire money.. Do not think what others do. Define what  money is for you and why you need it and for what you need it. WHat is the purpose for you needing to get money.
For your other question: What is Gita's view on getting rid of it ? Gita never talks specifically about 'money' at all. Gita mentioned about discrininating between temporary(changing) and permanent (non-changing) from absolute perspective.
Our body itself is so temporary then what say money. Gita does not say, not o take care of this body..although it is temporary. Gita states that, to do all our actions and try doing the actions but not getting worried or anticipating the fruits of our actions which is very difficul(3rd chapter - karma yoga). DO everything what you feel you need to do in this world but by the attitude of surrendering to that God which will make our mind calm and after that, you will feel peace irrespective of whatever that comes your way. It does not mean that if you have money, you will not have peace and hence you need to get rid of what Gita means is: You can do everything whatever you have to do,whatever you feel like to do with the undestanding to your own consciousness that you need to do the right things. (Again, this 'RIGHT' thing is relative and you know in ur heart before you do any action whether it is a right thing or not).
Hari Om

I agree with Vasudev Sathyanarainji. Goddess Laxmi  alone, is not money. Here we are talking about money.   Laxmiji (money) comes in 2 forms to one's home.

One - when she comes alone due to an affection like that of a mother to her loving son. Here come most categories of money desirers and general people. They love and respect money excessively and not very seldom , they love and respect only money . Their desire for money is very focussed, singular and a long sustaining one coupled with concerted efforts. They love money just as a child loves mother. Here Laxmiji comes on her vehicle - Owl. The entry of Laxmi blinds a person as Owl becomes blind in day time. It reverses the intellect just as an owl can't see in day time and can see only in nights. Ego, pride, cruelty, dishonestly, lies, sinning, ruthlessness, competition, jeolosy, fear of losing, worry of maintenance, change in attitude of surrounding people, hypocrasy, bad habits in children, selfishness etc come together in plenty. Soon it makes a human rush towards south. It aids only thus in down fall of Jeeva because there is no Dharma there. Here too there are distinctions - Artha only ( Earning money only, lesser bhoga of the same). Artha and Bhoga ( earning money as well as enjoyment thereof). You need help of destiny for either or both.

Two- Laxmiji comes with Naraina. When she comes with Naraina ( to artharthi bhaktas, and those karma yogis who have walked on the path of giving, giving and giving or to Aart Bhaktas for removal of their sorrows); she comes on the vehicle which is not owl but Garuda. ( When Garuda flies, from its wings there is sound of richas of Samveda). This Laxmi is based on the desire of Naraina, does not blind you with pride and in quantity is only as much as Naraina wants, based on the "yogakshema" of Bhakta. Here the money enhances Dharma and Dharma enhances money- this circle gets formed. Bhaktas receiving this money spend the same so as to enhance Dharma.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
Jai Shree Krishna
 It indeed appears as if "kaliyug" has set in.   Paragraphs and paragraphs glorifying money!  Money, it's possession has been the root cause of many evils and calamity in this world.  It boosts ones pride and ego. It definitely makes one FALL. I repeat FALL.  Mr Naga Narain should particularly read Gitaji Chapter 16 ( I think Brother Mike Keenor  also posted some excerpts) to find out what kinds of vices enter a human when he worships money.
Swami Rupesh Kumar
Narain ! Narain !!
These lengthy messages, as well as, clear lack of conformity with Gita, Scriptures, Saints and Sages.  Vasudev Sarvam is too different a concept to be quoted every now and then. What about discrimination between sentient and inert?  Many "siddhis" ( occult powers) , many achievements, that way are independent of Naraina. Naraina has granted these things in abundance even to His enemies. Hence just because money is also known as Laxmiji and because Laxmiji is spouse of Naraina, to write a poetry in honour thereof is a poetry honouring money and not Naraina or Laxmiji. Mind plays a trick!. The deep rooted affinity with money and inability to rise above the importance of money is clearly evident - these views need to be re-considered.   All Scriptures, including Gita , all Saints and Sages, including Swamiji have asked to not have mine-ness with  "jad" ( world/worldly possessions) , and it is only for utilizing it to serve the world,  hence undue glorification and respect to it is not the goal of a sadhak.  One has to reject the importance of money from the mind. This is not possible with such eloquent praising going on. Sorry ! I disagree with your view point.
Narain ! Narain !!
Naarad N Maharishi



Hari Om

The message of Deosharanji Bisnauth on money is a very well compiled message. Most of the things he stated matches with overall views of Scriptures, Saints and Sages etc. Beautiful message !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Shree Hari    Ram Ram

This is not exact words from Swamiji's message... but my understanding is that insecurity has nothing to do with how much money we may have !  or how rich (wealthy) we are!

Somewhere in a lecture Swamiji talks about a rich man is he who has the least number of wants (desires) and a beggar is he who has the most wants and desires.  so I am assuming that one who has the least wants may also be fairly secure.  Therefore (again an assumption) the insecurity comes from having too many wants and desires ...and the fear of not being able to fulfill them.. .on the other hand security comes from less wants and desires.

One who has faith in God and in Gita 9:22 and knows full well that God will provide for all "aavashyaktaa" (essential needs) will never have to feel insecure or worried about money.   Meera Das   Ram Ram

Dear Sadhaks,
Very True!!! We tend to find false in everything else except ourselves.. Money is maya, woman/man is maya, world is maya etc etc. We see all kinds of  mayas when our drishti is not on the Absolute, SELF, Paramatma, Brahman or Consciousness. We need to shift our drishti from maya to Parmatma.. Only HE exist...
If we see Maya at all this means we have not seen Gopala at all.
rich is Gopala, poor is Gopala
sukh is Gopala, dukh is Gopala
tu is Gopala, main is Gopala
where is maya when all is Gopala ?
with Love,
A sadhika
Sadhna Karigar


Dear Sadaks,
Sri Maha Lakshmi is in the heart of Sri Vishnu. HE has given HER that status. Sadaks are thinking in terms of currency and coins or gold. These things came only recently. In old age time Sri Lakshmi is considered as 9 Lakshmies, starting from Daniya Lakshmi, Santhana Lakshmi etc. SHE is blesser of wealth. In most cases SHE blesses saints/ Bakthas. Like in case of Badrachala Ramadoss, only mother Seetha (As lakshmi) tells to Sri Rama (Vishnu) to save Ramadoss by paying dues to the muslim king called Taanisha. Of recent in 20th century Thyagaraya in south India sang so many songs on Sri Rama wonderfully. But he saved not a penny. He had only one daughter for marriage. But mother Lakshmi sends another Baktha to Thygaraya helps to perform marriage in grand manner.
The question is very clear. We are not answering correctly. In the question note the word "accumulate" which is none of us should think to accumulate/aquire more money by means of greed or desire. Only money that comes by Dharmic business or by doing Dharmic Karma along is safe. Police, politician accumulate money which is incorrect. That is what Sri Vinayak means I hope.
Sadaks please do not pull God and Goddesses in our discussion.
Sant Tukaram was offered by Marathi Shivaji gold and ornaments. He said in his abang that is equal to cow flesh, because he wanted money to come by hard work and not as gift. Thygaraja was offered by king Saraboji gold ornaments. He refused and said he is happy in the Rama Nama. He was doing well with what ever he got. So money coming by way of praise or as gift is not good he said, as and when gift received he becomes credited to oblige king Saraboji. May be to sing on king praise.
One to have money or not is not in his hand. A child born with golden spoon is blessing of HER for that child in earlier birth did plenty of Dana/Dharma/Service. Accumulate money is totally wrong.
Jai Sri Krishna


Hari Om

I have never stated anytime, anywhere that there is any thing wrong in having money. I just at the outset stated that money is the most inferior thing in the world - and I stand by it. It is the most inferior thing from every point of view including for hoarding it, possessing it and when saved for future by even a non sadhak. There is nothing wrong in genuine saving of money. It is a very good topic in fact, from spiritual and sadhak point of view. A lot of things should be deliberated on the subject.I shall also deal fully on this topic. Swamiji Himself at a quite a few places talked about it.

At the outset let me state that money ( Goddess Laxmi) as far as one human life is concerned does not necessarily stays only where Naraina is there. Similarly, where ever Laxmiji is there, it not necessary that Naraina also shall be there. I have no doubt on the same. It is not necessary, but some sadhaks , saints may be in a very affluent state like King Janaka. But everywhere it is not found.

Traditionally, the real bhaktas have been found to be poor. In Bhagvatam also Lord Krishna says that I first take away entire money from Devotees (Bhaktas) and then I give them entire affluence in abundance- as He did with Sudamaji. Hence the Bhaktas are not necessarily always always rich. More often than not they have lived poor from worldly possessions. That is one great propellor to drive a sadhak intensely towards "detachment" from worldly possessions and the desire for it.

Similarly, abundant wealth till their death has often been found with enemies of God be it Raavana or Kansa or Duryodhana or Shishupala and many many others . In Kaliyuga we find very frequently such giants. In fact excess money with a person frequently if not almost necessarily,generates ego in a human being which causes his downfall. That when read with BG 9:30/31 - na me bhaktah pranasyati - clearly suggests it is not necessary that wherever is Laxmi , God also will be there. Not at all necessary.

In fact there is one beautiful two liner very oftenly quoted by Saints and Sages :


Son, Wife and Money remain (adequately) also with a sinner.

We shall deliberate further reg observations of Pratapji also and on many commonly unknown principles pertaining to money from books/discourses of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Shri Ramsukhdasji Maharaj.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N



Money - Insecurity - Why? What is Gita's View on Getting Rid of It?

Prathap Bhat: Do we really need to find faults with "money" in itself? I think faults, blames, attachments, insecurity, greed etc etc lie within ourselves in terms of our attitude toward "things outside".  They don't hold us back, on the contrary we hold on to them as means of security which they don't possess, for no fault of theirs! What we need to possess always possesses us!

I think Pratapji penetrates the bottom of the question precisely � Yes ... "I" is the problem � not the money! Getting rid of Lakshmi is a rediculous idea � getting rid of our wrong notions toward the same is an excellent idea. As a matter of fact, this is  true toward anything else as well.  The very notion of "getting rid of something" shows a very strong ownership on the same thing ... who are we to "acquire" or "get rid of" anything at all? Eeshaavaasyamidam sarvam - if we insist to perceive ownership, that belongs to only one fellow, The Life, Vasudeva.

If we think money (wealth) is causing us some problem, that just proves that our attitude toward the same is corrupt. If our attitude toward wealth is corrupt � our appreciation of Mother Laksmi is incorrect. If our appreciation of Her is incorrect � our appreciation of Her Spouse, Bhagavan Narayana, is incorrect as well.

Lakshmi (wealth) stays where her spouse, Narayana (life), stays. They are inseperable even in one's ignorance. We crave for wealth when we crave for life and vice versa. We try to assert our ownership over wealth because we believe to
own our lives as well. We are in trouble because we have not bothered to understand, appreciate and respect the life we are bestowed with in the first place. When we have no understanding, appreciation and respect for Narayana, how can we ever show the same toward any of His devine components such as Mother Lakshmi?

If the Narayana is the life we own, the Lakshmi is the wealth we own � 

if the Narayana is the life we are blessed with, the Lakshmi is the life supporting  resources we are blessed with.
If Narayana is the everlasting name we crave to own, fame is the Lakshmi we will pursue �                                                                            if the Narayana is the only fame in our understanding, His name is the Lakshmi we seek.
If Narayana is the comfort we bargain, Lakshmi is the money we chase �  

If Narayana is the only comfort in our understanding, His memory is the Lakshmi we follow.
If Narayana is the position we crave to gain, Lakshmi is the success we chase �
If Narayana is the only Position we see ever, His heart is the Lakshmi we stay at.

If Narayana is the birth we rejoice, Lakshmi is the parents and children we love
If Narayana is the creation (Brahma) that we worship, Lakshmi is the knowledge (Gnyaana) in Him.
If Narayana is the life we celebrate, Lakshmi is the accomplishments we are proud of �

If Narayana is the essence of life (Vishnu) that we worship, Lakshmi is the food (Anna) that radiates from Him.
If Narayana is the death we dread, Lakshmi is the ageing (dissipating energy) that we fear �

If Narayana is the abode of Peace (Shiva) beyond our lives, Lakshmi is the energy (Shakti) that pours out from Him.

If Narayana is The Absolute (Para Brahma), Lakshmi is the very desire for attaining the same, Mumukshattva.
Getting rid of Lakshmi is rediculous - useless as well as impossible. Getting rid of our ignorance regarding Mother Lakshmi reveals the knowledge of Her Spouse - Bhagavan Narayana, Himself.

Maa gridhah kasyasviddhanam � never ever try to own Mother Lakshmi even in the subtlest levels of devotion � She does not "belong" to anybody; if at all you insist to perceive belongingness, She belongs to Him, The Vasudeva. As a matter of fact, She is inseparable from Her Spouse. Never ever attempt to split the inseparable union of The Two - Life and Sustenance ... never pretend to own a dominion independent of THAT UNION to believe hegemony over THAT either � the very notion brings calamity obliterating our very presence into the oblivion of ignorance overwhelmed with miseries.

I bow to Pratapji � what we need is correction within � that is all.


Naga Narayana


Shree Hari   Ram Ram

Swamiji has been very clear about real money ( wealth)... real security... Swamiji says God likes simplicity. He does not like trickery.  In Swamiji's eyes... true wealth, true security was chanting Bhagwaan's name constantly. Only this is true wealth, true security. Only this wealth will go with us. In today's world people may call us fools - people call those clever who earn a lot of money. But the money stays here and God's name goes with you.   The choice is ours to decide who is really a fool ?   The best things in life are easily available to all... air, water..... etc.  God's name is open for one and all. All have a right over it. You can spend all you want and it keeps growing - it never diminishes. This age and time is very good for those who want to attain God.  Let no one remain poor. Everyone can earn this wealth.  Therefore earn true wealth. Make it your nature. Never forget God. Always chant His name. O Lord - let me never forget You - says Swamiji.     Meera Das,  Ram Ram



Shree Krishna
Money is received by you without efforts so long as it is necessary for you. Beyond that it is received by operation of destiny and no amount of efforts can get you money beyond what is destined for you. Hence it is a useless topic to deliberate upon. When you have no role to play in getting it by your present efforts, why you should waste time ? Idiots are those who run after it. YOU DONT GET MONEY BY YOUR PRESENT KARMAS.
Swami Rupesh Kumar
shree hari:

ram ram.

essence of Gita is verse 66 of chapter 18 in which is said one shall have no worries (how to live, how to accumulate things and money etc) when surrendered completely (not depending on anyone except Paramaatmaa) and that's all. do surrender and experience the truth.

kachchaa saadhaka Sarvottam


Namaste, Dear Sadhakas!
Do we really need to find faults with "money" in itself?
I think faults, blames, attachments, insecurity, greed etc etc lie within ourselves in terms of our attitude toward "things outside".  They don't hold us back, on the contrary we hold on to them as means of security which they don't possess, for no fault of theirs! What we need to possess always possesses us!
As long as we continue to find faults outside ourselves, we will never be free of problems.
Money has no power in itself to hold us back or to make us free. It is an instrument we humans have devised with God given intelligence to handle fair exchanges of goods and services as our societies become more and more complex due to science and technological growth, national and global markets etc. To the extent, the system is abused,  we all become victims! It is our own faults, not of money.
Once we stop finding faults outside, we can look within us more objectively and will definitely find the source of our insecurity in our desires to be secure.
Ultimately we may discover that our highest security is in knowing there is no security "out there" and there is no insecurity "in here"!
Just by discovering that desires are rooted in our feelings of "inwardly lacking" due entirely to the self imposed limitations of identification with "body-mind", Security is ours!
Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

Dear Sadhaks
I read a book called Star Signs written by Linda Goodman. Her theory on insurance has helped me great deal establish a fairly comfortable relationship with money.
Thank you


Hari Om

Money is the most "raddi" (worst/most third grade) thing in this world. Even prostitutes, robbers, sinner mosts, under world men, devils and demons have money with them. If that is some yardstick of progress or achievement.

Better than money are "things" , like food grains /cloths etc. If you don't have money but have things you can still live. Better than things are "animals". Horses, cows, dogs, goats, sheep ,fish etc the things are generated out of them. Better than animals are "people"- other human beings. You get money/things only from other people. Even your body has been received by you from other people only. Better than people are devotees of Paramatma . They serve humanity at large without any selfish motive. And then of course is the Paramatma Himself - the PARAM ASHRAY DAATA- the upper most limit of shelter. You need no other shelter once you have taken shelter of Him. The very desire for shelter extinguishes.
Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Shree Hari   Ram Ram

Swamiji says that it is so strange that day and night we are engaged in efforts to earn and accumulate those things for security (money, wealth, titles, knowledge, power, etc) that do not go with us... Whereas  we do not accumulate those things that go with us (e.g. divine name recitation, purity, non-violence, truth, sacrifice, austerities,  etc.) . 

Gitaji / Swamiji have been perfectly clear... everything received will CERTAINLY depart.   We are ansh (part, fragment) of only Paramatama (Supreme Consciousness). We will not last anywhere in the world.  We are only a traveler.  This is everyone's experience.  Have you so far seen anyone, continue to stay here? or take anything with them when they depart?   Swamiji continues to emphasize that we must respect our "anubhav" - your own personal experience. 

What insecurity would there be if we truly understood the message of Gitaji / Swamiji regarding our true Self?     Meera Das,   Ram Ram


Namashkar to All,

As in Vedanta:
This Human birth is the right moment to attain Samadhi.
This is in steps ... after practicing Yog (Karma, Bhakti & Gyan) we come to a state of 'Uparathi' (desireless of materials), then we come to 'Dharna' ( desireless for Living attachments), it is only then we start practicing 'Dhyan (Meditation) which leads to Samadhi and Moksha.




-Shree Hari-

  Dera Vinayak Yajnik

The great false god of riches and greed. 'mammon', has become the universal
deity of the world for so many.
The world we live in has been crafted, over the millenniums, slavery, imperial
exploitation, human exploitation, capital exploitation. Whereby the whole human
structure of this world is built on money.
The way the heartless exploiters control a dark empire, is by fear, the fear of
poverty, of loosing ones status in society, also fear for ones life.
The unbridled greed of these dark ones, is now in the process of destroying the
planet, and the fabric of society.

What these dark ones don't want you to realize is summed up very neatly by Meera

Also to understand the fate of these dark ones as they are described in Bhagavad
9. Holding this view, these ruined souls of small intellects and fierce deeds,
come forth as enemies of the world for its destruction.
10. Filled with insatiable desires, full of hypocrisy, pride and arrogance,
holding evil ideas through delusion, they work with impure resolves.
11. Giving themselves over to immeasurable cares ending only with death,
regarding gratification of lust as their highest aim, and feeling sure that that
is all
12. Bound by a hundred ties of hope, given over to lust and anger, they strive
to obtain by unlawful means hoards of wealth for sensual enjoyment.

......20. Entering into demoniacal wombs and deluded birth after birth, not
attaining me, they thus fall, Arjuna, into a condition still lower than that!

With Respect and Divine Love.

Mike (Keenor)


Shree Hari

Ram Ram

Here is an interesting analogy by Swamiji between Money and Paramatma realization-

Swamiji says  - You cannot survive with money alone.  If a person does not see the face of money for his entire  life, he can still survive; but he cannot survive without food and water.  The goal is therefore not money, but to have the things (food, water, clothes, shelter)  for sustainance.  We have given a lot of importance to money. It has become more important than even food.   The brain has been destroyed by thinking that one cannot do without money.  We do not realize what is truly more important.  Money is just the means. The importance is of the objects (things - food, water etc) that are needed for sustainance.

The same rule does not apply for spiritual matters. In attaining Paramatma,  the importance is of the end (goal), not the things.   - Paramatma realization is not through things i.e. karan (body, mind, intellect etc) .  We are separate from the "karan."  God realisation is karan nirpeksh i.e. we are not dependent on the karan (instruments - body, mind, intellect) to attain Paramatma.   We have to separate ourself from the instruments to realize Paramatma.  Therefore let us give importance to Paramatma- to the  end, the goal - not to the objects / instruments - body mind intellect.

Meera Das

Ram Ram


Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar

It is very true, that we save money for emergencies in the future, for medical
treatment, for the education of the kids, for buying houses for the kids, for
marriages of sons and daughters, for travels, for recreation etc...if money is
not saved, we do feel insecure...
But the real problem is many many families do not have enough money to maintain
the family at its bare the question of saving money for the future
does not had to mouth has become very the present
Many people are losing their jobs, kids, after completing their education do not
find jobs...That is why youths are standing in long ques for Siddhi Vinayak
Earning more money is always not possible but avoiding unneccesary expenses is
always possible...restrict the family to only one kid, dont buy luxury and pride
items, avoid excess purchases...
Some people are not happy even if they have large number of shoes, sarees,
shirts and ornaments...So change your attitude from materialistc to satwick food, avoid bad company, smoking, liquor and such vices
and spend as much time as possible..with your family.... and save atleast 10 %
of your income for the future emergencies...
If you are are likely to be cheated...if somebody says.. you give
me this much money...I will double your money...dont believe in such
people...and most important of all...dont believe in Amulets, angaras,
sacrifices and vratas....just simple prayers, meditation and yoga will help you
in finding the right path and overcome the difficulties...

...Gee Waman


My feeling is that there is nothing wrong in being successful and rich;  The issues is that properly utilizing the money we have is often more difficult than even earning it.   We must give - Dana or Charity -  and Bhagavan tells us to whom you should give, and how to give:
To give is right, gift given with this idea, to one who does no service in return, in a fit place and to a worthy person, that gift is held to be S�ttvika.
And what is given with a view to receiving in return, or looking for the fruit, or again reluctantly, that gift is held to be R�jasika.
The gift that is given at the wrong place or time, to unworthy persons, without regard or with disdain, that is declared to be T�masika.
GEETA 17 verses 20 to 22
Steadiness in Yajna, austerity and gift is also called 'Sat': as also action in connection with these (or, action for the sake of the Lord) is called Sat.
Whatever is sacrificed, given or performed, and whatever austerity is practised without Shraddh�, it is called Asat, O P�rtha; it is naught here or hereafter.
GEETA 17 verses 27, 28
This is how you get rid of the insecurity - Bhagavan says to give in a fit place and to a worthy person. Most people who have this million dollars in the bank or in the mattress (you really should not have it there!), think of the money all the time, 24/7 and develop delusion and conceit:
"This to-day has been gained by me; this desire I shall obtain; this is mine, and this wealth also shall be mine in future.
"That enemy has been slain by me, and others also shall I slay. I am the lord, I enjoy, I am successful, powerful and happy.
"I am rich and well-born. Who else is equal to me? I will sacrifice, I will give, I will rejoice."  GEETA 17 Verses 13 to 15
Get rid of that insecurity and conceit - give some, give Dana, to those who deserve - to those who need it to teach Geeta, to educate people, and to help those in need.

Work hard !  Imbibe in the Geeta !  Engage in Satsangh and give and help for good causes else that wealth is worthless.   Remember, all we do, all we offer, all we give, all our actions, and how we live our lives are done as an offering to Bhagavan.
Whatever thou doest, whatever thou eatest, whatever thou offerest in sacrifice, whatever thou givest away, whatever austerity thou practisest, O son of Kunti, do that as an offering unto Me. GEETA 9 Verse 27
Another important aspect of wealth and education,  is the inherent risk of False Ego, Ostentatious lifestyle, and Arrogance, even religious arrogance - they "disregard ordinance." Bhagavan alerts us to forsake those qualities and get rid of the "I-ness":
Thus deluded by ignorance, Bewildered by many a fancy, covered by the meshes of delusion, addicted to the gratification of lust, they fall down into a foul hell.
Self-conceited, haughty, filled with the pride and intoxication of wealth, they perform sacrifices in name, out of ostentation, disregarding ordinance;
Possessed of egoism, power, insolence, lust and wrath, these malignant people hate Me (the Self within) in their own bodies and those of others.
These malicious and cruel evildoers, most degraded of men, I hurl perpetually into the wombs of Asuras only, in these worlds.
Obtaining the Asurika wombs, and deluded birth after birth, not attaining to Me, they thus fall, O son of Kunti, into a still lower condition.
GEETA 16 verses 16 to 20
Forsaking egoism, power, pride, lust, wrath and property, freed from the notion of "mine," and tranquil, he is fit for becoming Brahman. GEETA 18:53
Money and riches cannot provide you with security if you are obsessed and conceited with it; nor is it a path, by itself, to becoming a Brahman. That money and wealth, if used properly for Dana, in the service of the needy and to educate and inform people about Geeta, will provide you with all the security you ever wanted, as well as a sure path to becoming Brahman. Bhagavan gives it to you; He gives you freedom to use it; ultimately, it is your choice whether you rise, or fall down into a "foul hell."
Ram Ram
Deosaran Bisnath



Dear Sadaks,
Money came in existence only when alternative of goods exchange was difficult and when times money by way of coins came. Money to have is definitely NOT wrong, but how much and dependability counts. From our Gurus or saints the answer goes. Have enough to basic requirements only. Do not save for next generation. Do not do anything harmful, cheating, robing etc for money. Do not praise anyone for money (very importantly said). Do not plan to have money for few months next. In short, do not be attached to money. Means like you do all karma for survival in Dharmic way, have money only to the extent that comes. Do not run behind it. This is For only normal sadaks as beginners.
For Sanyasins, mumukshus (people trying for mukthi. Have food for that day only. Do not beg food more than 5 houses saying Bikshandhehi. Have only two clothings one to wear and another as spare. That money in form of Gold, Silver, Clothings etc which comes more than said above to be distributed same day. (from Sri Buddha Upadesh). Morefully important said, even if you have one paise, only handful of food to eat, only one cloth spare, a small hut to dwell it has to given off in event of a Bikshu approaches. Like the man who gave only silver coin he had to Chirst, like the good lady had only one gooseburry to eat gave it to Adi Sankara, like that saint Vemmanna gave away a small clothing that he wore when a old man asked for it, like the great Vaishavite saint Pogai Alwar was sleeping in a small hut room (in darkness with a small candle with not enough light to see) place for a person to sleep, when Boothat Alwar came in rain knocked the door, the 1st sant said please come in there is place for 2 people to sit, the 3rd Payyalwar came in knocked the door both 1 & 2 said please come in there is place for 3 to stand. The 3 saints were standing in darkness on rainy night. They felt there was 4th someone else rubbing and pushing them. The 1st saint closed his eyes and saw in his Divya Dhirsti (ability to see and know anything near or far) that Paramathuma Sri Vishnu was among them rubbing HIS shoulder against the 3 sants. A beautiful the 1st one sang, next another wonderful song the 2cd sang, and the 3rd sang in praise of Bagavan WHO took love on them to be amidst them. Totally 12 great Vaishavite saints.
All these means have something, but someone nedds be happy to give. For general humans give your might leaving minimum to yourself.
Jai Sri Krishna

It is our attitude towards money that is more of an issue than money itself.   Money is not the be all and end all of existence. Money is not everything. We should remember that everything that is perishable in this world is an illusion including money. So while we should earn it and keep it we should not think of it as being paramount. Money like life comes and goes so we should not be over attatched to it. There are other things in life besides money. About feeling insecure, just how much money do we need to feel secure? There is no end to it.

Hari Shanker Deo
Vinayak Ji, the person who accumulate money because of of insecurities is just that--an insecure individual period. When one accumulates money in order to help those that are less fortunate--that is not insecurity rather it is Sewa--a strength. Do Sewa and help others and see how fast you forget about everything else. Christians and Muslims do sewa and get others to come into their faith. We must do Sewa not with the intention of harvesting Souls into our Dharma rather we must do so because it is our Dharma to do so.
Insecurities comes from not liking yourself and this can be as a result of many things. The first step in getting rid of insecurities is to realise that we are all from Divinity. We are all dear to Bhagwaan. When we realise that The Supreme Being loves us all, how then can there be any insecurities? When we rely on humans to make us feel secure--that is courting disaster. Do not rely on people telling you how good/wonderful you are--know that you are by your own conduct, your own thoughts, you yourself. You know yourself more than anyone else, learn to love yourself and suppose there are qualities in yourself that you do not think is good conduct then seek to remedy them.Many people say--I hate myself for being so weak, I hate myself because I am dependent on such and such a person or such and such a thing. Seek to become independent and if you cannot do it alone, seek the help of those that you can trust and they will guide you.Love yourself as you are from Divinity and spend time helping those that are needy( do not look for thanks in doing so either). Our life will be occupied with that which is Dharmic and the time will past in contentment and peace.
Narain ! Narain !!
Consciousness is a universal truth. It need not be repeated in every message. If you have to blog this fact to sadhaks, then the better way is to keep typing it continuosly and posting. Here for sadhaks we have to adapt ourselves. Anything , any concept cant be that important that we keep repeating it and repeating it. We lose creativity there, fresh thoughts cease to arise in mind and we get stuck like a needle of gramophone record. Hence my observation was in interest of Pratapji Bhatt. He should re visit, his observations. That he likes a particular word excessively, that personal liking or wisdom or expertise  should not become a penalty for readers. He  has talent and he should step beyond "consciuosness" !! Narain ! Narain !!
Money ! Sure, we should address the INSECURITY as a whole. But the Question is related specifically with money. Hence we should concen trate on the same BASICALLY and lead to logical conclusion.
Narain ! Narain !!
Naarad N Maharishi



Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!
I appreciate and thank Naarad Maharishiji for the comments regarding my post. However, I feel I should clarify my understanding on the subject.
As he says I didn't use the word "Consciousness" this time as I use in all my postings.  Consciousness(GOD) is the only Reality there IS, everything we experience is Consciousness, It is only Consciousness that appears as our body, mind, World, and Universes imagined or otherwise. How can I not use it when we talk about TRUTH?
No one can ever be out of "hang" of Consciousness!
If only one Realizes one is Consciousness!( Knower of Brahman becomes Brahman, says Upanishad). I am neever tired of hearing, talking and writing about Consciounsness-God!
It is always fresh and new everytime I contemplate on it! It is I, It is YOU, it is ALL!
Regarding the relevance of Changeless and Changeful, I have to say that the question is "why do we feel insecured even as we accumulate money?".  Answer has to address the insecurity first. Money is only one of several ways we try to feel secure, We go for fame, power, relationships, possessions etc. My(?) answer goes beyonf money, and eliminates all insecurities by saying that there is never lasting security in the pursuits of objects "outside of ourselves" as they are all perishable-changing and thus limited. Only That which is Full, Unlimited, and therefore, Changeless Being can give us the Highest Security! It has no dependency whatsoever, and is Bliss! This Changeless is Consciousness!
If we can stop chasing objects, and turn inward, we will know that we are already Secured!
Ignorance of this knowledge made us chase changefull objects!
And lastly why find fault with money, it is intelligent social arrangement of exchanging goods and services for evolving societies and its needs. It is only our ignorance that is to be blamed, not money.
We need to acknowledge the need/use and stay away from wants-greed!
Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt


Bhagvada Geetha's ultimate answer to all the questions that arise in your Being, my friends ................
IS " Acceptance "   Accepting  yourself ..........    Accept Yourself .................
and accepting yourself can only happen.........   if you come to ' know yourself '
which can never really happen ... all that can  happen is that you could become aware of "What you are Not "
and that too..........  only , if you so do choose !
if that you donot choose, nor the longing for the Self arise in you....
you may keep asking question after question after question...
 and keep listening to the answers true from the Knowers of Truth  ..............
and also repeating the words intellectually  enjoyed,  to others asking the same questions from you ....
much joy and fun, it could be .... with feelings  deep, of being spiritual....................,
 but ....the Self you shall know not ................ ah !!!!
and unless the 'Self is known' ............ you will always  remain a seeking thirsting soul ............
 beautiful, no doubt; knowledgeable, no doubt; a maha atma , no doubt.........
 but ..... you will remain a seeking thirsting soul   !!   thirsting to be yourself ..........
 the Nothingness that you  truly are  !! 
 narinder would love to draw your attention to a beautiful story of the learned Narada, who goes to the unlearned 'eternally- 5 - year old Sanatkumar' , with deep humility of ' not -knowing the self '........
 Chandogya  Upanishad , chapter VII, Section 1.......
read for yourself, friends , and revel in the Bliss of Truth.....................
that is ....... if you have the Joy of knowing that ' you do not know'  ............
and should your Mind say to you ..... that you do already know ..............
 you will enjoy the Truth of the story anyway, perhaps, even more lovingly , laughingly , Narinder says !
Such,  truly, is the beauty of self-acceptance !    allow narinder to illustrate.................
with reference to the topic under discussion...............   should nari 'accept ' Insecurity' ................. he is immediately filled with security ........... anxiety and fear flee .................
and should narinder ' Not accept'....  should narinder  woo security ....................... fear and insecurity  is all that he gets .......... the more he woos , the more insecure  he gets to be !!
jai jai Krishna ................
AUM !!


Feelings of any kind of insecurity including money related ones are the result of not being aware of Rules that govern us, how nature works, missing wisdom,........

If we are strongly aware of the fact that there is abundance of everything in the world and enough for all of us............there is no need to feel insecure on any account.........All insecurities can dissolve....

Most of the time, we are not aware of this and if we are aware, we do not trust or have the patience for the Nature to prove you that......

That is why it is called a Grand Play.......

Sushil Jain


Shree Hari

Ram Ram

This statement of Swamiji's has touched me deeply.  Sadhaks PLEASE read carefully....

"In reality, the essential things for the sustenance of this body have already been pre-arranged by Paramatma  (Divinity, God). In fact, by desiring, one creates roadblocks in the flow of these essentials in life."

This is a very amazing point for sadhaks.... interestingly all essentials for all beings are already provided for... how amazing this point is !!!  We cannot relate to it, because of deep seated attachment to this body and all it's related baggage - fear, insecurity, worries, all for the upkeep and maintenance of the perishable inert... that is bound to perish and separate from us.

To read entire posting, please visit -

Meera Das

Ram Ram

Narain ! Narain !!

Money ! Most third grade thing made by humans in this universe. What kind of money a  turtle needs to live for more than 100 years? We have gone mad behind finding security in possession thereof. Take shelter of Narain and then there will be no need of any shelter ! What kind of shelter money , a jad vastu (an inert thing) provide to Jeeva , a chetan vastu ? The very thought is stupid. Never saw Honey Bee ! What a painful death it dies. Oh ! When , the most Beloved Part of Naraina, Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj writes, where remains any scope of any deliberation ? Nectar flows there. Take holy bath. Read ! Read again ! So that Sant Shiromani Himself sinks unto you !
Arya Pratap's explanation is not upto the mark. He should go deep. For the first time, however, I saw a  CHANGE in  him. He has not used term "consciousness" perhaps for the first time in his messages after a long time. In any case, on the topic of hoarding of money, the relevance of CHANGELESS and CHANGEFUL is hardly there. He has talent and should serve the brethren with more researched contributions. He can do it. He should do it now that he is out of hang of  "consciousness " !
Arya Basudeb ! Right you are ! Narain ! Narain !! Arya Sarathi ! Yes ! Keep reading ! Start contributing too !!

Keep it up , O Sadhaks ! Such forums do not exist in plenty in this Shrishti ! Narain has been graceful on you all. Keep improving your "selves" so that Divine enters . Remove the false covers- money, ego, intellect, from the SELF and be blissful.
Narain! Narain !!
Naarad N Maharishi
Dear Sadaks,
Practically saying what people save money to avoid insecurity is because of experiences they see or felt. In many cases money (Sri Mahalakshmi) plays great role. When in old age nowadays to perfotrm simple operation heavy amount needed. Also to days comfort of Air Condition room and car, good food, respect in society, home many appliances, dish TV, computor and net connection etc from where one can get money at old age. Middle age man seeing this at LARGE, feels money is security. Actually when money neeeded NO one helps is another fear as such money taken as security.
But one thing man has to know that money alone will help is risky.
Practically speaking money is important, but money is not everything. So money management needed as per the guide lines of Sastras.

Today we have so many gadgets, for our comforts. TV, Dish, Washing machine, cleaning machines, electrical appliances, air conditioners, computer and net etc. Then  money to spend for maintainance and repairs.

Our health insurance, hospital expenses (expensive). With all these requirements we have to keep money as security.

Being so, if one totally depends on money NOT on God, then money can be harmful or even risky to life. IN Quran it is said that part of money to be kept aside for poor. So does Christianity. Same told in depth in Hinduism. Handling of money is told by Sri Krishna to a king who had Samanthaka Diamond which gave gold daily.
If one opts to be Sanyasin or completely attached with divinity, money has to be managed day to day basis. That is what ever got has to spent the same day in a proper manner to a noble cause, leaving nothing for tomorrow.
Jai Sri Krishna

Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!
Why do we feel insecured at all?
Swamiji has already answered it!
Feeling  of Insecurity is intrinsic to our mistake in considering us as mind based person anchored in Body, self-imposed limitation! We chase security for such an "ever changing person" through things(including money) that also keep on changing! Not possible to be secured this way, sadhakas!
To feel secured one has to identify with that which is WHOLE(purna) and therefore, Changeless, Deathless, and Stands Under all changes as Constant Being!
If we investigate, such Changeless is already within us, as our Being, our True identity, our Home! The very reason we can say that "this body-mind" I call mine, and the world I experience "out there" are changing, it is only if I am that Changeless. Only a "Changeless"  Being can recognize "changes", whereas that which itself changes cannot!
Since I do recognize changes, I have to be THAT Changeless Being, no doubt about it!
 So it is the proof positive for us to take our true stand as THAT Changeless and the Highest Security, Immortality will be our First Nature!
Namaskar........Pratap Bhatt


In Gita God tells Arjun to give up all fear (including the fear of future insecurity) and submit to God who will take care.   He also says God knows what is going to happen in the future which we do not know. Submitting to him is the ultimate insurance against future uncertainty.

Also, Gita says that it is under the influence of material desire that people work with the attachment to fruits of action. It is desire to protect material happiness that makes on to accumulate money. Gita calls for giving up material desire. When you give up material desire you do not need money either now or in the future.

basudeb sen


Sir, The forwarded (attached) message is great and I thank you so much jayashree
sarathy partha



:Shree Hari:
Ram Ram

It is evidential truth that when this body was born, it was tiny, and
now it has become big ! It is not that it all happened in one particular year,
rather the body was constantly changing, year after year, month after month, day
after day, hour after hour, minute after minute, second after second. Now what
does this really indicate? This proves that it is constantly changing. And it
and only changes. If it was not constantly changing then how would it
change everyday? On changing where is it headed? It is headed towards it's end -
Death; This is absolutely the Truth without any doubt. This life is moving
towards Death. There is no doubt about this. The amount of time that has been
lived so far, that much of time one has died! Now futher ahead how much life
remains, one does not know. But certainly as many years that have gone by, that
many years of life span has been reduced. That much of time death is
nearing. There is no doubt about this. This life is going towards death. This
body is going towards non-existence. One day it will be entirely non-existent.
Today it "IS", and one day it will be "IS NOT". But the desire remains to engage
in sense pleasures and accumulation of things, to hoard money, this is such a

Simply pay a little attention. To earn money and to utilize it for a
good cause is not a sin; but to get on this obsession of hoarding is sinful.
This does not mean that money should not be accumulated at all. It also does not
mean that when a need arises to simply not spend. To not spend money for sister
- daughter, priests, diseased person, hungry man, one without clothes, a poverty
stricken man is sinful. By hoarding ultimately what will you do? If you are
unable to spend when a need arises for either yourself or for others, then what
is the use of hoarding? This body wont remain. When this body becomes
non-existent, then what will be the use of that money? If the earnings are
through honest dealings and if it is utilized for essential work then it is
discretion, otherwise the greed for money makes one looses their senses. One
becomes so attracted to money that when Lakh rupees are accumulated in cash,
then one finds it difficult to part with them. By mistake when one or two
thousand are spent, then one feels very sad that the capital, the principle was
used up ~ If the son spends it, then one becomes angry on him for
reducing the base. One tolerates being economical on food and clothes, but the
base (principle) should not be reduced and must remain as-is well protected. If
you are asked, what do you intend to do with the base, the principle, the
The body is going away, death is nearing every moment, this money
stacked as-is (not utilized) what use will it be?

I am not saying that you must leave the money, throw it away, or destroy it. But
on having the money, still undergoing difficulties, not even spending it for
useful and essential things, then what is the purpose of that money? One must
come to their senses that if Bhagwaan (God) has given them this money then it
must be utilized for the best of best work. While living itself, utilize it for
your self as well as others. Simply by being a miser, continuing to
increase the count, bank balance, what will be gained? Even when the best of
opportunities come your way to spend that money, then too the feeling is that it
will be better to have someone else spend it; if our money is not utilized that
would be better.

Gentlemen ! Please listen very carefully to what I have to say. Just
like work pertaining to charitable causes, best of best spiritual events where
there is association with Truth, religious ceremonies etc , at that time too if
the sentiments are that it will be better to let some one else cover the cost,
let me be free of this trouble, then what will you do with this money? Just like
a businessman is thinking to buy the maximum at the cheapest price, because the
market price will be higher in the future, and some places have already
increased the price. However since it is still cheap over here, let me even
borrow money by paying interest and buy the maximum quantity that I can. In this
manner, the greed that arises for buying, like that the greed does not arise for
spending (for good causes) which will go with us. However much you spend for
good causes, that much will go with you. Therefore there must be that
greed that let me utilize this money in best of best work and causes.
Each and every one must be informed that for this work I will make a
contribution. Your turn may not come; because it is very difficult to get such
an opportunity. (to be continued)

From "Saadhan Sudhaa Sindhu" in Hindi page 639 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

Ram Ram

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1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
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extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
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Ram Ram
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