-Shree Hari- Sushil Jain ------------
What I have found is that the biggest stumbling block is dogma, it
can act as a block to progress. But if one steps around these blocks,
driven by ones own insight, then yes one will arrive at the common
ground, metaphorically the Christian will stand hand in hand with
Jain, Hindu, and Muslim etc, having also completed their winding
Simple example, reincarnation, from a scriptural and intuitive point
of view it must be. And yet of course the Church denies it.
(In all probability some paths are more direct).
With Respect and Divine Love,
It is very scientific..
It is not about christian, muslim, hindu.......
Need today is to integrate these learnings and systematically make them available to the people especially to children without a label....like any other subject we teach....like maths, physics, chemistry, medicine....
My understanding is that the Abrahamic religions is more COMMAND/ORDER based, that is why they are more orderly.
They all stress one path- faith/obedience. Disobedience is the sin.
Thus, they don't dwell on re-birth. That concept is irrelevant to them, because they want you to get it right in this life or be lost for ever.
As opposed to it, we have countless opportunities to work at our own pace. Thus, re-birth
becomes significant. In our system, it can happen in split of a second or in eons, it is up to
us. All paths are fine, all paths are true (sort of an oxymoron, that is why at the end, in most arguments with Christians and Muslims, most Hindus look like fools!), etc. This is quite different from One life, one chance- if you do not follow the order, you eternally burn in hell. Just like a police or even a loving mother. Both have to be strict to ensure their message is followed.
Jainism & Buddhism also relatively more orderly than Hinduism (sanatana Dharma).
Because they also stress on one path-knowledge/
As we know, it is the Abrahamic religions that call the shots in this world.
They are prepared, proactive (within the limits, like Judaism does not seek converts);
Hinduism may be pre-pro active (as it has thought of all possibilities for all times), but what I have seen is that Hindus are only reactive. Even the number of Hindus in the world is probably not more than one or at the most two! Because, that is purely for census and for Missionaries
and Mullahs to round us up. As many Hindus are that many Hinduism is!
There is line in Bible, ""Empty they self I shall fill it"". This same thing Bagavan in Geetha has said. Contemplate.
Once Sadaks who took to sanyasin sitting inside there hut were arguing about a boulder outside the hut, as the stone boulder was Granite or Not. A saint passing by hearing this argument said to them, "" You sadaks please tell me whether the stone inside or outside"". What was the saint saying?
Jai Sri Krishna
Namaste! Dear Sadhakas!
My humble and respectful response to our Brother Dr Ranjeet Singh is as follows:
If we can see commonality among various religious practices, we can be more
understanding and respectful of other traditions and hence can live peacefully
while pursuing our own path. Our paths are generally determined by prevailing
religious practices of the place and time into which we are born. So when we see
commonality, it doesn't mean we give up what appeals to us easily. It is the
appreciation of other paths that is stressed here in our comments.
Life is One, Truth is One, various are Its expressions all lovely and beautiful!
However, if we concentrate on differences, we are likely to be defensive and
fight for wrong reasons!
What is common among human relationship is Love which when recognized as the
most important element, lets us play appropriate roles as men and women. Love is
Intelligence that knows the differences in relationships. Then gender,
nationality, race, don't seem to matter! If Love is lacking then only these
In my understanding there are common elements between non-dual teaching of
Vedanta, Zen-Buddhism, Sufi aspects in Islam, Hasidic teachings(I think it is)
of Judaism, Taoism, Contemplative Christianity. It is just heartening to know
such is the case.ï¿½ Why emphasize differences?
Jesus never claimed to be God, he is the son of God. He had Realized Self. He is
Spirit according to Bible, is like Supreme Consciousness, Brahman! God is just
representation of Oneness, not located at a place. We should not go by what
words are used because it depends on the context and the audiences.
The beautiful aspects of Christianity are service to all with devotion, charity,
and sacrifice for fellow human beings. Such qualities are to be admired, rather
than saying they don't have concept of liberation.
When Krishna addresses Him as "Me" in Gita, it means Supreme Consciousness only
speaking through Historical figure Krishna in Human form. This means all can
worship Him in whatever forms they worship with this Understanding in their own
Finally we are not reinventing new paths, we are stressing the importance of
seeing the underlying commonality across all religious practices once the dogmas
are seen for what they are and bypassed! It is inspiring to know mankind
everywhere else have also thought about the same Truth and expressed in their
own language and circumstances! We are just lucky to have Vedas where we are as
much as they are to have theirs!
Dear Dr. Ranjeet Singh, It was argued: "There is one God that is Christ", sorry absolute nonsense, and by they way I will show by your arguments my point is valid. Christ kept referring to His Father, and said he could do nothing without His Father, he surrendered to His Fathers will, even when he thought he had been abandoned. Jesus said also, Father forgive them for they ...", he did not say "I forgive you". The nature of Jesus was not taken by Christianity from the bible, but spun by Greeko/Roman neo Pagans.See ex Wikipedia 'Between 325 and 681, Christians theologically articulated and refined their view of the nature of Jesus by a series of SEVEN ECUMENICAL COUNCILS' THUS THE DOGMA. I will add that all Christian festivals are thinly disguised Pagan festivals. Reference to Moksha, Jesus said"The Kingdom of GOD is not coming with signs to be observed ....fore the kingdom is in the mids of you. Also, "The kingdom has come but you see it not". Also I have quoted before the death of Ego, surrendering ones life,.. Read Julian of Norwich insights of of the 'Divine Indwelling'(
With Respect and Divine Love,
According to the Dictionary; Dogma is:
1. a system of principles or tenets, as of a church.
2. a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.
3. prescribed doctrine: political dogma.
4. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.
In belief system--Sanatana Dharma, we have the freedom/right to interact with Bhagwaan however He inspires us to. Meaning that how we feel about Bhagwaan has a relation to how He(She) wants us to. Ours is not manmade religion with --specific rules. such as--you have to pray so many times a day,fast on certain days or else you must give a percentage of your earnings etc. Concepts of Bhakti and Prema are beautifully explored in messages of Bhagwaan. Fear is not a concept created by Bhagwaan rather it is Love of God.The problem is that some Sampradayas too have made up rules and this is what causes problems in Sanatana Dharma. Eg, some say that The Lord will not accept food that has onions and garlic. etc. Rules and more rules which sometime scare people away. We have seen from the Kathas of many Bhaktas that there is no boundary between The Lord and His Devotee--He accepted basi fruit as Sri Rama. People use isolated verses from Scriptures to create Dogma in Sanatana Dharma and we must be wary of this.
Dogma scares people away from The Divine while Sanatana Dharma is the eternal natural path to Union with The Divine. We get pass Dogma we reach The Divine faster.
TAD VISNOH PARAMAM PADAM (Rg Veda 1.22.20)
Dear Dr. Ranjeet Singh,
I am not sure if you are comparing people of other faiths along with animals, 'no chance of Moksha, not in this life any way'.
Mysticism (as difined in the Wikipedia).
Nullification and absorption within God's Infinite Light (Chassidic schools of Judaism)
Complete detachment from the world (Kaivalya in some schools of Hinduism, including Sankhya and Yoga; Jhana in Buddhism)
Liberation from the cycles of Karma (Moksha in Jainism and Hinduism, Nirvana In Buddhism)
Deep intrinsic connection to the world (Satori in Mahayana Buddhism, Te in Taoism)
Union with God (Henosis in Neoplatonism and Theosis in Christianity, Brahma-Prapti or Brahma-Nirvana in Hinduism)
Innate Knowledge (Irfan and fitra in Islam) Experience of one's true blissful nature (Samadhi or Svarupa-Avirbhava in Hinduism)
According to Jesus, the Kingdom of God is within (or among) people, is approached through understanding,
The Seventh Heaven is something I know nothing of, But it is in the Kabbalah; apparently, never heard of it in Christianity.
Jesus answered , "I have not a demon; but I honor my Father...."
The Jews said, " You are not yet fifty years old, and you say you have seen Abraham? Jesus said to them truly truly I say to you before Abraham, I am....".
"Who sinned that that man be born blind, he or his parents?
"Elijah has come.... and they understood he spoke of John th Baptist,
(Reincarnated after 300 years)
Reincarnation was taught by the western Church until 553 AD.
Can one see that the Mystic cannot be tied up with dogma.
Now can one grasp how the intellect, can mull over the paradoxes twixt dogma and the written, to the point where one has to go so deep with the desire for the Truth, reaching for the Divine, to the point where you fear for your life by what you find, but cannot let go?
Can one understand what I am writing about, do you think that I am a closet Christian ?
I love the 'Divine Beloved'.
BHAGAVAD GITA Ch:9
29. The same am I to all beings; to me there is none hateful or dear; but those
who worship me with devotion are in me and I am also in them.
With Respect and Divine Love,
"Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down. For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's only foe." - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)
My dear mike
love god and thats all u need.
whats this fuss all about.
In Bhagavad-Gita Lord Krishna explains as to who is a perfect devotee
" Mayy avesya mano ye mam, nitya ukta upasate
sraddhaya parayopetas, te me yuktatama matah " ( Gita 12, 2 )
"Those who fix their minds in me and are always engaged in worshipping Me with
the great transcendental faith are considered by me to be the most perfect"
Lord Krishna also described who is very dear to Him.
"advesta sarva bhutanam , maitra karuna eva ca, nirmamo nirahankarah,
sama-dukha-sukhah kshami, santustah satatam yogi, yatatma dhruda niscayah
" One who has no hatred towards any one,a friend to all, who has no ego,who is equal both in happiness and sorrow, who is always satisfied, self contolled, tolerant and who is engaged in devotional service with his mind and intelligence , fixed in me- such a devotee is very dear to Me."
Importance of devotional service is clearly stressed here. Pure devotional service with compassion towards every one is Bhakti Yoga.
" Yajnanam japa- yajnosmi " (Gita 10, 25) which means " Of sacrifices I am the chanting of the holy names" (Japa).
chanting of the holy names " Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna ,Krishna Krishna Hare Hare" is simple and pure
In this Kali Yuga, this chanting is highly recommended and it is very practical.
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu conducted this sankirtana (japa) yajna five hundred years ago.
This is a direct path to attain the Lord.
Let us chant and be peaceful and happy
The response is more focused on Sadhaks then the Paths....
From Swamiji's teachings -
A sadhak (seeker, aspirant) must get past dogmas and not have insistence on his own regarding any doctrines, opinions, philosophical ideas, religious sect or religious community that he belongs to. Rather he must act in accordance to their teachings. Insistent on opinions and philosophical ideas of his own religious sect, creates animosity with other sects. Thus he is unable to be open minded and free of biases and will be deprived of good learnings from all.
Generally the limitations are our own understanding, not in them. Therefore if any of their actions are not understood by us, and appear flawed to us, then personally we must not pursue and act on those things.
Simply speaking .... Paramatma is only One - though Names and Forms / Formless aspects may be different.
There is no gain in any of this. Do not favor one view over another and have no differences. All this is a waste of time. Simply get engaged in God and God alone, as this birth is only for that purpose. Oh Lord, Oh Lord ! Pray that you do not get entangled in dogmas, doctrines, sects, philosophical ideas, Organizations, Groups etc. There is simply no gain in any of this - says Swamiji.
Dear Gita Sadhak Bandhus,
In our humble opinion, it is not the common elements that are important but those that are particular. There are many things that are common in humans and animals. Can they, therefore, become the same, or be treated like the same on that account?
It was argued: "There is one God that is Christ", and Hindu says, "Survum Vasudeva Mayam". This is not commonalty and cannot prove similarity of the two.
The neighbour's wife, one's wife and daughter have many elements that are common. They are all females, have head, neck, feet, limbs and feminine organs which are common, besides many others. But, on that basis, can one be replaced by the other? Can the daughter or the neighbour's wife also become one's wife, act as such, or be treated as such?
Similarly, in our humble opinion (the manner in which understood) Brahm and Christian God are not the same. The latter resides in the seventh heavens, while Brahm is every where and in everything. How can the two be the same, therefore?
In Gita Bhagawan Shri Krishna says: Eeshvarah sarva bhootaanaam hrid-deshe Arjuna tishtthati (18:61); meaning thereby, that Eeshvar dwells in the heart of all beings. Now, who else says that? Do Judaism, Islam and Christianity also say the same?
Then it was also said: ï¿½ in Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity and in all religions, there are approaches more direct than traditional/ dogmatic/ progressive ways to liberation. But, how can there be ways to liberation the concept of it in various religions; when there is not even a talk of liberation or Moksha in them.
Bhagawan Shri Krishna says: Yaanti deva-vrataa devaan, pitreen-yaanti pitri-vrataah/ bhootaani yaanti bhoot-ejyaa, yaanti mad-yaajino'
We have placed some of the doubts that have crossed into our mind when we read the above post and on account of which we think Sadhna on the basis of commonalty shall not lead to the destination we have chosen for ourselves as Gita Sadhaks. And, therefore, we should stick to the paths shown by the Scriptures and our great ancestors rather than devising or searching for new ones. Bhagawan Manu, the progenitor of human race, has taught us:
Yenaasya pitaro yaataa, yena yaataah pitaa-mahaah/
Tena yaayaat-sataam maargam, tena gachhan-na rishyate// 4:178
which means, follow in the footsteps of your fathers and grand-fathers, the path taken by your ancestors, the sat-purushaas. So doing, one will not meet any harm.
Dr. Ranjeet Singh
This is my opinion .......
The Great Thinkers of the Past (GTPs) had a powerful sixth sence and intuition.
They observed, felt, experienced in the Nature around, within lifeforms, within
mankind and within themselves something physical, they analysed it with their
acute intelligence and described it to the best of their abilities, knowledge
and language in the form of religious scriptures.
Now we we are more evolved in knowledge, information, means of observations, and
resources of experience. We can as well feel the same physical sense and
interpret it with the help of scientific knowledge and information. We now have
the backing of experimental results and information. I feel, the Great Thinkers
of the Present (GTPs again) should review the past scriptures, instead of
believing in them blindly, and correct them whereever needed.
I am aware of the fact that my views and assumptions will not be easily accepted...but I hope, to some individuals, it may be appealing.
Shree Hari Ram Ram
Paramatma is Eternal, and Paramatma's message (Eternal Laws and Principles - Dharma) is also eternal and unchanging not perishable and limited by time, space, causation.
From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram
Christianity said the following: 1) That world is square in old testoment. Hindu says yes, as it has Chathur Yug 4 Yugas in a square depicted in Vishnu Puran. Quran of Muslims say the world in Char (Four) slots that is 4 Yugas. 2) Christians says NO rebirth or incarnation. Here incarnation is differant from birth. It is saying about Athuman (Holy Sprit) that has no birth. Sri Krishna says Athuman has NO death or births. 3) Christians say,(a) "Love thy Neighbour as thyself. (b) Do not cast your eyes on your neighbour` s wife. (c) Show the other cheek when slapped. (d)There is only One God that is Christ"". For (a) Survam Vasudeva Mayam (b) Kama-Lust when seeing somebody wife Ref Vishnu Puran (c) forgiveness (Sowlabiyam) lived Example Sri Ekanath Maharaj of recent (d) only one Paramathuma. Christians can note Whom is Christ often calls "Oh my father In Heavens" Hindus say God is formless and can attain any form. Muslims pray formless. Some Christians this as well as that.
This is what Sri Krishna In Geetha has said to people "Moodha" (Ignorant).-
Jai Sri Krishna
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Brother Mike, right you are, some paths are more direct.
Direct paths, as I understand them, bypass dogmas, as useful as they may be for some in initial stages. It is like bypasses/loops built around the city for those traveling beyond the city. In-city and out of city traffic get helped in this ways.
The approach of Vedanta is direct Realization of who/what we are. Therefore, upon such Realization, all our actions come from this Truth of us, and not from not-knowing ourselves. Truth liberates, and ignorance, as much as we say is bliss, nevertheless, binds us.
As you say in Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity and in all religions, there are approaches more direct than traditional/
How do we get past dogmas? Again, as you say, seeing the commonality in them helps to a great extent to broaden our visions, so we can drop/bypass non-essentials at the time.
In my experience, I see more and more common elements in all of them now than before, and if for some reasons, I see conflicting views, I resolve in one of two ways: Either I don't know/interpret in the context/spirit it should be, or it is not relevant at this time for me.
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