Saturday, February 28, 2009

[gita-talk] Re: Bhagavad Gita - Daily One Verse Brief Explanation - II 2:32 II

|| Shree Hari ||
Ram Ram

II 2:32 II

yadrucchaya chopapannam, svarga-dvaaram apaavrutam
sukhinah kshatriyaah partha, labhante yuddham idruhsam

"A righteous war throws open the gates of heaven to all the warrior
class participating in it. Only a blessed few, even among
Kashatriyas, will have such a golden opportunity offered to them. "

From Gita Prabodhani in Hindi pg. 41 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

----------------------------------------------------------

Yadruchchaya = by itself / by will of God
Cha = and
Upapannam = come
Svarga-dvaaram = the gate of the heaven
Apaavrutam = opened
KshatriyaaH = warriors
Paartha =O Arjuna!
Labhante = obtain
Yuddham = battle
Iidrusham = such

English translation:-

O Arjuna, happy are the warriors, who get such a battle that comes
unsought as an open gateway to the heaven.

In Sanskrit language, the definition of a `Kshatriya' i.e. a warrior
is `YaH Kshataat Traayate SaH KshatriyaH' i.e. a person who protects
the masses from the injuries, pains and sorrows arising due to
lawlessness and misrule in a society and a nation.

`Swadharma' i.e. innate nature of a warrior is to protect the good,
to destroy the wicked and to establish superiority of righteousness
over the unrighteousness.

A person who saves mankind from destruction is a `Kshatriya' i.e. a
warrior. Kshatriya is not a caste or a creed in India. A person who
has a mental capability, physical capacity coupled with a lasting
enthusiasm and a burning desire to defend the weak and the poor,
besides the preservation of traditional culture and territorial
integrity and sovereignty of a nation against all acts of
aggression, is called a `Kshatriya' i.e. a true warrior.

A warrior is never content with domestic pleasures and comforts. He
is the first person to stand up against the unrighteousness and
fight against all the evil and wicked forces, till either he gets
killed in the process or succeeds in the battle and upholds the
righteousness.

A true warrior's intrinsic nature makes him an ideal candidate for
fighting in a battle. It does not imply that a warrior always seeks
enmity, creates hatred and initiates a fight without a rhyme or a
reason. However, whenever a righteous war is inevitable as the last
option, a warrior is always ready to face such challenges in life. A
true warrior should readily avail of every such opportunity to fight
an unsought and righteous war. The ultimate fruit of action, of
fulfilling obligatory duties to a society and a nation, is the
attainment of the heaven for a true warrior.

Please refer verse 32/65 in Udyogaparva of Mahaabhaarata wherein it
is stated, "Oh thou best of men, there are only two types of persons
who pierce the constellation of the Sun and attain unity with the
Brahman; a Sannyaasee who is deeply stepped in Yoga and a Kshatriya
who succumbs to death while fighting in the battlefield."

Also please refer verse 72/18 in Udyogaparva of Mahaabhaarata
wherein it is stated, "The sin that is committed by killing one who
does not deserve to be killed is as great as the sin of not killing
one who deserves to be killed."

In the case of Arjuna, the 13 years of trials and tribulations in
the exile are over and a fresh new lease of life has been unleashed.
Arjuna ought to rise to the occasion and seize the opportunity to
excel in demonstrating his true mettle, in such a unique and
wonderful situation. For Arjuna, diffidence and despondency are
totally out of place at this juncture, when the tide of fortune is
on the ascent for him.

The tide of fortune and the opportune moments come to one and all,
which are in conformity with the theory of evolution in the ascent
of man. Blessed are those who utilise such advantages, however, not
for selecting the option of `Preyas' i.e. for satisfying selfish
desires and aggrandisement, but for selecting the option of
`Shreyas' i.e. what ought to be done in every challenging situation,
without bothering about a favourable outcome, irrespective of
personal likes and dislikes.

Lord Krishna draws attention of Arjuna to the divine role that he
ought to perform and reprimands him for the dishonourable stance
that Arjuna has taken at the very crucial moment in the royal
battle.

Please refer the verse 5 in chapter 16 in Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta,
where in Lord Krishna has boosted the self confidence in Arjuna by
declaring, "The divine nature is deemed for liberation from the
cycle of unending births and deaths, while the demoniac nature is
deemed for perpetual bondage. O Arjuna, please do not grieve, as you
are born of divine nature and you have been selected to perform a
divine role by the will of the Supreme Being."

Thanks & Best Regards,

Shrikant Joshi
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mike,

Thank you for maintaining the momentum of the meaningful dialogue.

In response to your observations, I would like to submit as follows;

In Sanskrit language, 'Maanasa' has two meanings. One is of mental
origin and the other one is the famous glacier in the Himaalayas.
Hima
means ice and Aalaya means home.

In a poetic form, "Ramate Na Eva Hansasya Maanasam Maanasam Vinaa"
i.e. The mind of a Hansa bird is not interested in anything else but
the famous Maanasa glacier.

By the way, the famous German airline is named Lufthansa i.e. Air-
born Hansa bird. Luft mean Air in German language.

As illustrated in chapter 10 of Shreemad Bhagawad Geeta, Lord Krishna
has described, "Mad BhaavaaH MaanasaaH JaataaH, Yeshaam Loka ImaaH
PrajaaH" i.e. all beings in the Universe have My mental origin and
the human beings are the sons of those fourteen sons i.e. Manus, who
were in turn sired by the seven Sages.

In Sanskrit language, 'Maanava' means belonging to or related to King
Manu. Therefore, son of King Manu is called as 'Maanava'.

It is the progression of every being from Markata (monkey) to Maanava
(human being) to Maadhava (Lord Vishnu).

The rudderless, unhindered play of human mind is equated with 'Markat
CheshtaaH' i.e. monket tricks.

The cold blooded, merciless, intellectual play of a human being
leads to hegemony and tyrannical rule.

When the trio of physical body, mind and intellect is singularly
focussed on the the Self then and then only, a human being attains
the state of 'Maadhava'.

Now coming back to your question, "Is there not a danger of
rationalizing profundity, with science?"

I fully appreciate comments from Shri Vyasaji today. The full and
final truth is indeed 'VaasudevaH Sarvam'. As a student of science,
having belief in the building block theory, as on todate, this can
be equated with E=m C squared. Tomorrow another 'Albert Einstein
Plus' will come up with yet another superior equation based of
modern String Theory and we will go through such updates for time to
time.

Therefore, let us continue the phase of 'Tushyanti Cha Ramanti Cha".

Thanks & Best Regards,

Shrikant Joshi.

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Shrikant,

I believe we may have the makings of a meaningful dialogue.

Reflecting on your statement pasted below:
'The mind needs the rudder of the intellect, without which it goes
helter skelter. The intellect does not get focussed on gross level.
It needs the subtlest of the subtle entity the Aatman to focus.
Under the presence, supervision and the guidance of the Aatman, the
trio of the....'

I will paste in a version of Bhagavad Gita CH. 10. 9 -

Macchittaa madgatapraanaa bodhayantah parasparam;
Kathayantashcha maam nityam tushyanti cha ramanti cha.
(ramanti seems to have various translations)

CH :9 With their minds and lives entirely absorbed in me,
enlightening each other and always speaking of me, they are satisfied
and delighted.

You notice Shri Krishna talks of the 'mind' being absorbed in the
'Divine Beloved', plus of course lives and talk, a sort of positive
feedback, round and round, to one assumes a sort of divine tipping
point,(avalanche affect), is reached. Is intellect involved? I am
not sure, but never the less juxtaposed to this, see the paste from
the book 'The Cosmic Game',(Lila?)by Dr, Stanislav Grof,[..I have
not yet met a single individual who has had a deep experience of the
transcendental realms and continue to subscribe to the world view of
western materialistic science. This development is quite independent
of the level of intelligence, type and degree of education, and the
professional credentials of the individuals involved...]

Is there not a danger of rationalizing profundity, with science?

Dear Sadhaks this is to me, a wonderful opportunity of divine
dialogue.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike keenor
----------------------------------------------------------
NEW POSTING
Brother Vyas,
Your comment on the Mind/Intellect, and the role of ATMAN,
is the best I have read, you did deal with the same subject some time
back, I was a little perplexed by it, either you have done a better
job this time, or I am starting gain some wisdom, or maybe a bit of
both, whatever. But I would encourage all Sadhaks who are a little
fogy in this area, (like me), to read these comments with care.

My reference to science and the spiritual, is that it is easy to see
things backwards, 'cart before horse'. Swami Vivekananda predicted
the coming of wireless telegraphy, by his understanding of the
universe, through the 'The science of Yoga',as he referred to Yoga.
A friend of mine many years ago said, "I couldn't believe what I was
reading, he,(Swami Vivekananda), was writing about the theory of
relativity years before it came to light".
So I would say we are of one accord, Science, lags the 'Ancient
Wisdoms'.
In passing Shrikant Joshi, pointed me to Bhagavad Gita 10.9, I think
this has had a positive outcome.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor).
----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Brother Mike ! The beauty of Gitaji is that acts as a mirror also !
As is our belief, so does it manifest itself. I read your message,
as usual with interest. Without interfering into your joy of BG
10:9 , let me state that the joy envisaged there, does not result
by mind or intellect getting absorbed in Divine. Being inert and
active, they can not reach Divine at all. They can focus
themselves , however, as a child focuses its sight on Moon, unable
to reach there. The joy arises because of their remaining in
equanimous state. On one hand they do not have any desires of
world , having understood the futility thereof. On other hand, they
cant reach THAT element which is even beyond their own very cause-
NATURE ! Hence the mind/intellect do not have any option but to slip
into silence/stability/ motionless . The reference by Shrikantji of
Atman being the ultimate guide to mind/intellect should be
understood only with reference to Atman itself getting absorbed in
Divine, being part of Divine itself. Once the Master ( Atman) is on
one path, the servants ( mind/intellect) MUST follow him, as a
law ! His views should not be extended to mean that Atman gives
directions to mind/intellect. It can not do so ! It is not empowered
to do so ! Hence falling of mind/intellect into an
optionless/equanimous zone, creates the joy within referred in many
verses including in 10:9 referred by you. That state of inert is
referred in Holy Gita to be the end of INERT ! That also addresses
your distinction between mind and intellect. Note also, that while
Raaj Yoga ( Meditation) emphasises upon the stability of mind, but
Gitaji emphasises upon the stability of intellect. In a stable
intellect, equanimity and Viveka shine.

As regards reconciling Science and Spirituality , I must hesitate
to state ( not being a student of science at all ) that till
Science comes out with a conclusion that there is nothing existing
in the universe except Paramatma, (No gas, no liquid, no solid, no
matter) and that the same element is reflecting / manifesting
itself in different forms based on the perceptions of the perceiver,
I am afraid, the journey of Science will not be over. What
conclusions can be arrived at when some one takes as basis a thing
which actually does not exist at all ? There is one idiom in Hindi –
" ANDHE KO ANDHERE MAIN BADI DOOR KI SOOJHI" ( A blind man in
darkness has seen something which is far away! ) That is how the
science is going- the modern science. In Gita : Science ( Vigyaan)
has been defined to be " VASUDEVA SARVAM' ( All is Brahman) !!

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------
BHAGAVAD GITA RESOURCES

Please see list of Bhagavad Gita resources at:

http://www.karmayog.org/bhagavadgita/

(compiled by karmayog.com)
Shrikantji / Sadhaks if you have come across other great resources,
please kindly send note to us with link. Ram Ram

===============================================================

|| Shree Hari ||
Ram Ram

All Sadhaks can and should contribute as well. Discussion /
clarification is encouraged

OTHER REQUESTS FROM SADHAKS -

Please feel free to take the lead in any of these areas so that all
sadhaks may benefit.

- Introduction to Chapters (GT MODERATOR FROM SADHAK SANJIVANI)
- Chapter Summary - Principles and Laws emanating from it.(N.B. VYAS)
- Summary of Chapter from Sadhak Sanjivani "AS IS"
- Yes, Epilogue / Important Facts in each verse good to bring out.
- Any subtle thoughts / interpretation (MIKE)
- In-depth explanation of "Om Tat Saditi Srimadbhagavadgitaasu,
Upanishadsu....." is a very good idea. (GT MODERATOR FROM SADHAK
SANJIVANI)

From Gita Talk Moderators
Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram
We deeply thank Shri Shrikantji Joshi for taking the initiative to
support this divine work of daily one verse Bhagavad Gita
explanation and Shri Madan Kauraji for the Gita Prabodhani
translation Chapter 1 and 2 and to Mrs. K Asani for requesting shloka
explanation on a daily basis.
From Gita Talk Moderators
Ram Ram

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[gita-talk] Re: Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man ?

i would like to ask these great ones, is it a crime to be in love?
Not only being in love alone, but with some one that has a family,
what do you think of a woman who is in love with a man that has a
family? do you think the woman is committing any sins? as they say
love is blind and we are all human, so as the great ones in sadhak_
insight, can you give any explanation for this act of human, is it
normal or is it a sin?

kind regards
sharmilla
----------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram

Feedback on Future Questions to be Addressed by Group -

Beauty of Gitaji is to answer all questions by bringing back the
spirituality in daily life. Why do we have to divide life into
spiritual life, social life, family life etc etc?
Why to break that Holistic approach which is the solution to our
problems of such divisions? Also some apparent solutions may not be
directly addressed in Gita but learned Sadhakas may have experienced
in different ways, so what is wrong to help someone?
Gitaji has all answers but to dig them out in proper context, and to
make them applicable in a given situation is an art we are all
learning. Pratap Bhatt

For the time being, we will post similar types of questions,
provided questioner (sadhak) commits to reading the Gita, and shares
feedback from sadhak responses received.

From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------
NEW POSTING

Loving All:
Pranams.

There were couple-few in this responses who have pointed finger at
Krishna, fine, if they want to compare themselves with Krishna,
let's straighten few things:- Krishna, even as a human being, was
such an elevated soul that before even entering his mother's womb
miracles were happening, is it true for you?

- Krishna lived with Gopies-Gopas and all other men-women of Gokul
only up to the age of 10 or 11 (not even teenage, someone can
correct this), then is this love a physical
attraction/sex/lust/passion or any such sort?

- When in youth, women wanted to marry him and that was the
custom/norm of that era to allow many wives so he fulfilled the
desires of women (e.g., he came to rescue Rukmani who was asked to
marry someone against her will). Please note, it is not his desire,
he ran after fulfilling.

- He liberated those 16000 women who said to him that we were
abducted by this demon but the society will not accept us. People
will always think of us as impure and say that these women have
spent night at another man's house..., they will not accept us or
give proper respect to us so please accept us. Krishna did...!!!
He gave them love, respect and status in that society.

- Krishna was constantly threatened to be killed and yet he did what
was needed to be done for these women, man, friends, families of
that society. Men-women like to portray Krishna's pure-selfless love
as an excuse to their physical attraction/lust/passion/etc. Can one
really compare themselves with Krishna, even as a human being? Can
you even do an iota of what he did for that society? How he
uplifted women? How he helped and supported his friends and family
members? To what extend selflessness, kindness, egolessness,
compassion, love flowed from him for the mankind?

Think... think and think it over what are you saying and who are you
doubting and with whom are you comparing yourself...???

humble regards,
always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel
----------------------------------------------------------
Life is to seek freedom from rebirth and rebirth is due to attachment
and desire and the life should be lead with a mind to reduce the
desire and attachment and anything towards detachment is good and
that which increases attachment and desire is not good but when you
do it you apy for it by pain associated with it. Sin is not like the
one you find in Christian literature. So you are desire is to bind
you more to carnal desire and hence lead you to utter despair.
Freedom is to free one from habit and habit is formed due to
attachment! So habit is formed and repeated habit leads to rebirth...
a long answer but that is how it is!

Ramayan R.S.
----------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari
Ram Ram

RAJUJI - Draupadi did not have five husbands. The five Pandavas
were only One. Swamiji has explained in one of Vishesh pravachans.
If someone can recollect the specifics please share to clarify
Rajuji's statement. Meera Das, Ram Ram

----------------------------------------------------------
RAM RAM!
Respected sadhak/ sadhaka,

Yes it is a sin being with a married man. unless he is a widower.
for todays times. it is illegal in hindus.

But circumstances in past marriage can be bad for the man as wife
may have married him for money, power etc. and tensions can rise
because of this or aduletury on any part. any way getting a divorce
is difficult for todays law.

In ancient times kings used to have many RANIS like dashratha,
pandu, krishna bhagwan many rishis etc.. but that time was generally
not kali yuga and dharmic laws were obliged by all. (Artha, dharma,
kama, moksha) were the service goal of a wife and husband.

In todays times generally men marry second or fall in affair for
lust not love. (99%) cases.

So law in kaliyuga has made second marriage difficult. a sin. in
kaliyuga. anyway law have own faults as case specific laws are not
flexible in India at present.

Second marriage may be allowed for getting a son/ child if first
doesnt have it(as per shastras) or death of a first wife ( for
approvable reasons after social, police investigations).

Yours truly,

kalrav pande
---------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadak,
chirag almoula says, "" Every breath taken without god in our life
is the only sin"". Plants and animals also breath without knowledge
of the creator. Does iy mean sin?
Probably you mean that every thought that is not linked with God is
a sin.
Jai Sri Krishna
B.Sathyanarayan
------------------------------------------------------
There is no sin in loving a married man - provided you love him like
you love any other person, animal, being. We as humans, have right
to love all - and only the person who can love all without
discriminating between rich and poor, ugly and pretty, or any other
perspective, is dear to GOD. So, love this married man like you
love your servant, your colloeague, your seniors, your brother, or
any one else.

Forming relationship with a married man is not considered good
because you are hurting his wife and spoiling his family life. This
is certainly a sin. You would be chating on your family - which is
again a sin.

Anita Sharma
----------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Every breath taken without god in our life is the only sin.

chirag almoula
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhika,
GOD and LOVE, these 2 words are highly misunderstood and misused
words. That is why people put -motherly love or brotherly love or
divine love or pure love whatsoever when they address love. So first
think what do you mean by love. Yr message conveys that you are
talking about illegal physical relationship between a married man
and woman, in fact it should not be termed as "love", and its not
accepted in any societies.

Love is the purpose of our existence. There is only one Love exist,
and that is Love for God. All other so called loves are just
material/bodily attachments in disguise.So if we love Krishna, the
true Love flows from within and all other roles are played well
according to His Will.

Dear Chetan, Anish and Sharmilla, Socrates became a great
philosopher, but her wife was so cruel and rude to him and his
disciples. Prabhupad became the leader of Krishna Consciousnes
movement but his wife was against him. We can get many examples
where someone become great because of his/her spouse or he /she
himself/herself was not really willing to lead a normal
materialistic family life. So the excuse of not having a satisfying
husband-wife relationship for extra marital relations is not
appropriate.If someone accept the sour relationship as bitter dose
given to him/her by God, his/her sexual desires get sublimated into
creative powers and he/she becomes divine tool of Krishna

sri-bhagavan uvaca
kama esa krodha esa
rajo-guna-samudbhavah
mahasano maha-papma
viddhy enam iha vairinam

The Blessed Lord said: It is kama only, Arjuna, which is born of
contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed
into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this
world.

Krishna Himself have sais that this desire itself is the root cause
of all the evils. Beware!!!

And does anyone think that by having more we can satisfy our
selves ? No, Swamiji said that if some one thinks that by getting
more we will be more happy and satisfied then its like putting ghee
(purified butter) into the fire, and thinking that it will
extinguish fire.
Societies at different places and yugas have different norms.. So if
some one is allowed to have many spouses(legally married) or not, is
a subject of government law. Although Muslims are allowed to have
more then one spouses in certain cases by their religion but they
are not allowed to have more than one wives in some countries like
Canada. Extra marital relations are not permitted in any society, or
country.
Before comparing one self with Rama or Krishna, one needs to know
his own true Self. The purpose of human body is to merge with God.
Please donot waste yr human birth, establish yr self in Yoga and see
how amazingly the true Love flows from within.
with Love,
A sadhika
sadhna karigar

----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Yes ! Love is blind, Jee !

Says Holy Gita:

As fire is covered by smoke, mirror by dust and embryo by placenta,
so is knowledge (truth) concealed by desire.
(3:38)

Indeed worldly love (desire) blinds a human, in 3 stages. First
stage as fire gets covered by smoke. In the first stage desire veils
the discrimination lightly. Fire can burn even when it is covered
with smoke. This is ideal time to get out.

The second stage of blindness is of the type of non reflection of
truth- when dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, it can not
reflect an object. Here the blind human can not decide what he ought
to do and what he ought not to do! He is confused at this stage.

When, dirt accumulates on the surface of mirror, even though it does
not reflect a face, yet it can be known that it is a mirror. But
when an embryo is covered by the placenta , it can't be known
whether child is male or female. Similarly, truth is, so much veiled
at this third stage , that one totally forgets his duty ( swadharma)
and his desire(love/lust) is intensified.

Veil, Confusion and Sin. Sinning occurs in the third stage. Out of
these three sin is regarded as most deadly defect.Desire is the root
of sin. When a human resolves not to commit sin in future, the
defects are rooted out and his sin begins to decay. But when he
renounces the desire, totally, all his sins perish.

Hence the suggestion of Mira Dassji is ultimate and only remedy
available. No doubt about the same.

Obstacle in implentation: Stupidity ! A stupid has two
characteristics as a law. One - He does not know. Two- He does not
listen to others !! There BG 3:33 says- of what use is external
restraint?

There only thing which helps is good company, SATSANGA. But due to
habit of not listening others , stupids remains so, till
destruction !

Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj and Scriptures have vehemently iterated
that stupidity / agyaan is the real obstacle to one's freedom.
Stupid talks when he should be listening. Questions when he should
be answering. Argues when he should be accepting. Justifies when he
should be negating. Defends when he should be conceding. He simply
loses capacity to listen. Conscience keeps getting disrespected and
tends to become more and more veiled progressively, become more and
more dormant. As soon as, desire is born, a human's truthful path is
covered with its smoke. If it is given scope for enhancement, it
makes the path totally dark. THUS- Absolutely blind becomes the
human when bitten by desires.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sarmila Sai Ram
Put yourself into the shoes of that woman whoes husband is having an
affair. While his wife and children are waiting at the dinner table,
he is sitting having dinner in some luxury restaurant with his girl
friend and will tell the wife that he cannot afford to give her
money to buy things for his own children. Think of all those lyings
and cheatings and the sufferings that the poor woman and innocent
children goes through. Think of the dark and painful nights when a
woman is sitting bed waiting for husband to come home. He comes in
the middle of the night and tells her that he was doing over time at
work and goes to sleep leaving her wondering about is he telling the
trueth? It is easy to say Love is blind and that we are all
humanbeings. However, think of the consequences of the sufferings
that the whole family has to go through just for the selfishness of
one person. The woman who falls in love with a married man and
manipulate him is a sinner as she creates so much pain and
sufferings to whole family who were living peacefully.

Kind regards

Shakuntla Vishani
----------------------------------------------------------
Based on my understanding there is NO Sin or Hell in the true sense
in Hindu Dharma. Per my knowledge, Sin and Hell are concepts
introduced by the Abrahamic - Christian Faith. We folle The cause
and effects of Karma in the Search for Paths of Dharma, Artha, Kaama
and Moksha. Even here, Kaama and Artha are not wrong purushartha but
just a driving force and our Dharma teaches that our Karma driven by
Artha and Kaama, though unavoidable in some ways due to attachment,
greed and sense pf pleasure, we must practice them withing the rules
of Dharma. Our Dharmashastra changes accourding to the period we
live. The effects of karma does not wait for our death to dispense a
punishment in hell as in Christian teaching (as I understand), but
the effects start now and in this birth and also affects out future
births and progeny. With the laws and thoughts of monogamy, being in
love with a person and having a sensual affair with a partner
disrupting a family will cause a grief in the other partner and
family and that is what causes the ill-Karma. In ancient society,
accepted norms of marriage varied in various society like in India,
some parts of Kerala, some parts of Ladhak and polygamy and
polyandry were accepted at that time but not in this day and age.
So, disrupting a marriage and family through any illicit
relationship is a Bad=karma carrying a bad effect. Just because you
are greedy or in need you will not rob another person of his money,
jewelery or food. It is similar. To err may be human but will lead
to human suffering. Even if the priest does it or his wife does it,
they will carry the Karma.

Bala N. Aiyer
--------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friend, I have read your question. I agree with
whatever our scriptures say. But, with one small variation.
When you meet someone, or see someone, you may be attracted
due to some quality in the person, male or female. The thought
of LOVE need not necessarily end up with 'falling in love'. It
can very well lead to knowing the person better, creating a
friendship, where you keep a certain balance. A relationship
need not lead to a physical one. AS Humans, we have the power
to think and learn. And this is one basic point that one can
learn of, without necessarily worrying about it. Good Luck.

Kalidasan
----------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krishna,
There are few black sheep every where. It's our bad luck that our
Sanatan Dharm is spoiled more by these so called Pundits than by any
one else. I don't think that even Mughal kings like Aurangzeb had
done that much harm. So its my request to not to follow such
pundits. Use your own VIVEKA and take decision.
Ashok Goenka
----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------
I am not a great one! May be that is the reason, why I think it is
NOT a sin. Just because today's society does not accept such
relationship (as written by other person except between mother and
child or sister and brother etc), it does not become a sin by
itself. The consequences of what you do with that love and
because of that love, is a different story and then because if it
hurts someone else, mentally, physically and/or emotionally, for no
fault of one's own, and your actions are the cause: well now you
have committed a sin. So if you loved, but did not do any thing
which will cause such a misery to you and anyone else, then how that
is a sin.
For example, you love someone and you decided to help his wife by
getting her a job, will that be a sin? Or paid his child's tuition
fees: is t a sin?
In the days when it was allowed to have more than one wife (or more
than one husband), whether all spouses were sinners? Of course not!!
Pranam!

Sarvate, Dinesh G

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Dear sadak Sharmille,
What is seen or saw are both illusions beyond perceptions. First of
all you are seeing wrong things that gets into your brain. The
priest is in disguise as a priest. His wife still worst. Both are
under the guise of divinity or priesthood behaving not like humans.
But there are so many people who perfectly behave more than so
dressed priests or so saints. Does that mean you can also behave
like them? What is differance between you and them? Looking at the
priest, his wife and yourself, there will be people wanting to
satisfy their urge, will give lame excuse and behave like the
priest. Sant Tukaram was white cloths. Kabir doss was in muslim
dress until last. Dress or name or roop does not mean their purity.
In christinanity, " Thou shall not cast your eyes on neighbour`s
wife". Quran also says the same. Marry another lady but not
somebody's wife. Hinduism lays down clear rule about behaviour of
men and woman. There is so many examples of womanhood who were very
powerful with their chastity. Choice is your.
Jai Sri Krishna
B.Sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Dear Sharmillaji,

While reading this email, realize that you are flawless, there is no
sin in you at all in the present moment. Please stop reading and
inquire, whether you are sinful or commiting sin at present moment.
You are free of all sins, all evils, all flaws, all blemishes in the
present. Completely free of them. You are pure and perfect at this
very moment. Gitaji (Gita 15:7) and Ramcharitramanas (Ishvar Ansh
Jeev avinashi chetan AMAL sahaj sukhraashi) have confirmed this. you
are AMAL (free of all impurities). Have an inherent conviction of
your flawlessness, your PURE SELF and that SIN CAN NEVER ENTER YOU
HENCE FORTH. Now knowing full well that there is no sin in you at
the present while reading this email, become free of all worries,
all confusion, all fears, all regrets, all doubts.

If henceforth at any time evil / sin appears to come to you, like a
dog that comes to your door for food, then ignore it, it will go
away. Simply ignore! Remain detached! If it continues to persist
then Swamiji says - invoke God "Hey Naath! Hey Naath!!" Gitaji
clearly states "The Lord looks after His devotees in all respects"
(Gita 9/22). He safeguards their flawlessness and frees them from
those sins / evils, which merely flash. Now onwards - why should
you worry? Why should you fear? Why should you be confused? Depend,
on His grace - He who has made us all flawless will also
safeguard it. By having this faith in His grace, flashing
of sins / evils will cease for ever. This is God's / Swamiji's
personal guarantee.

Let us know where the issues are, moving forward. We may appear
harsh, but a mother only scolds her own child and not other
children, because of the love and affection she has for her child.
So please do not go into a shell, but continue to share and ask for
clarification.

Meera Das
Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------

namasthe sharmila ji, Many sadhaks have already sent the message and
in addition to that, this is my humble opinion. both both your
questions, either a married man loves a woman other than his wife,
or a woman loves a married man...either way, both these people are
not doing the right thing.

also, if anyone gets involved in this kind of situation, it may be
better to see a counsellor immediately and any person in this whole
world will say that both these people (married man and the woman)
are not doing the right thing.

In these messages, someone asked about a different question..what
about a man if he loved a married woman..even in that case, that man
and a married woman are not doing the right thing.

Also, a person if they are involved in this situation may be having
low self esteem of themselves and they need someone to appreciate
them and feel that if at that position if someone says they love.
Please we need to remember that only LOVE tawards GOD will bring
peace in our hearts. All other love towrads everyone else in this
world is called relationships. We as humans (man or a woman) undergo
and go thro the relationships. As oothers mentioned, we need to make
sure that our actions do not hurt or harm other people or break
apart other families. Please , if anyone going thro this situation,
please let them start join any yoga or meditation routines which
will help them control the physical body as well as mental emotions
as well.

Namasthe,
Regards.
Bharathi
----------------------------------------------------------

I think sharmillaji is asking guidance i-- how to break the barriers
and impediments I one person , within and between persons and the
society at large.
Hurting self or others is sin for the soul and spirit
This person I think is asking as I gather is not what is sin but how
to avoid the situation?
God realization self realization by bhakti as meera did in her
pursuit for krishna and stay for divine happiness by love thru
bhajans is may be what sharmilaji and many other human beings are in
similar situation in karma yoga so probably worth to open the heart
and help.
Dinesh Patel

----------------------------------------------------------

Interesting posts. But please consider this: Draupadi had 5
husbands - polyandry. Did she love them equally?

Lord Krishna himself had several "loves". What is "Sin" (Paapam?)?
Who defines it? Is it societal or personal? What is "Universal
Love"? How do you arrive at that stage? Can you "love" in a
detatched manner? These things one can only answer for oneself and
conduct oneself accordingly. In the process of doing so, be kind
and compassionate to yourself and others. Do not judge either
yourself or others harshly. Good luck.

Raju

(it would help if you can provide us your last name in future
postings - GT Moderators)

---------------------------------------------------------
Sat Nam

Is it a sin for a married man to love a single woman?

The answer is the same as the previous question of a woman in "love"
with a married man.
It is all illusion! We think we love when indeed it is the mind
that loves. But the mind is cocooned in this illusory pursuit for
happiness and desire, thus causing ill consecuences that generate
Karma through which we have to work on. The tamasic guna that keeps
us grounded and unable to see the Divine Light in us keeps us in the
choosing for actions that will generate suffering in those around us
and consequently in us.

"Know that both Purusha and Prakriti are beginningless; and know
also that all modificastions and qualities (gunas) are born of
Prakriti." Ch XIII, V19.

"That elusive happiness which originates and ends in self-delusion,
stemming from over-sleep, slothfulness, and miscomprehension, is
called tamasic." Ch XVIII v39.

Cannot we realize that every action generates an energy wave that
after its effect will come back at the generator, us?

"In the creation of the effect (the body) and the instrument (the
senses), Prakriti is spoken of as the cause; in the experience of
joy and sorrow, Purusha is said to be the cause." Ch XIII v20.
Purusha here is the jiva, the individualized soul personality
conditioned and limited in duality.

We must be aware of our every action. Intent is not enough. We
think we are pursuing happiness. But how can we seek happiness when
happiness is not seeked. All we feel and think and feel is nothing
but Tamasic happiness. Happiness has to be manifested in within
without any other purpose than Divine Union. Love never causes a
disruption in the cosmic harmony. Love never expects reciprocity.

One can be in love without disrupting present relationships. Love
without expecting anything in return. Any other form of love that
causes pain and suffering, to others is just a tamasic illusion.
Please understand that.

"Seemingly eclipsed by My own Yoga-Maya (the delusion born of the
triple qualities in Nature), I am unseen by men. The bewildered
world knows not Me, the Unborn, the Deathless." Ch VII v25.

Sat Nam
jose rodriguez
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear friend, Many writers have clearly told on the
implicatrions of this. I want to add one more point. I
am now running 63 yrs. I am telling this from my
exclusive experirence. Love itself in the present day
jargon is emanating from LUST and there is no real love
of persons without looking the physical nature of
individuals leaving a very small percentage of Blind people
loving. Hence, my sincere advise to youngsters is at
least you can preserve decade old culture by arranged
marriages and a small fear to divorce because of
soceity's comulsions.Let us not imitate the west in this
at least.Our family bonds are stronger than that of any
world communities.Let us preserve something Good for all
and for posterity.With regards,

M.Hariharakrishnan.

----------------------------------------------------------
If this is wrong, were all the women who loved Krishna and married
him also wrong? He was supposed to be in a human form and we cannot
justify it by saying he was God.

I think the answer is much more complex than what is dictated by
normal morals.

e.g. In the Gita it is said that the I love the one the most who is
loved by many. (Please provide Gita Shloka - From Gita Talk
Moderators)

In this case, if any action of yours causes greater good for many
others, than the pain caused to a few in the family may not be
wrong. There are people who because of falling in love with a
married person have achieved greater good for society which they may
not have done without this other person in their lives.

I think we have to think of the greater good of a larger number of
people rather than see society in terms of the smaller unit of
family. Sometimes, an outsider can cause greater and faster growth
in a person than a spouse. This growth may spur a person to much
greater heights that may not be possible in the cocoon of a
marriage.

If it was all about family, then Krishna wouldn't have advised
Arjuna to kill his own relatives.

Even Arjuna had more than one wife. If not, there would have never
been an Abhimanyu. If Subhadra had not married the already married
Arjuna, there wouldn't have been an Abhimanyu who was a great part
of the victory of the Pandavas over the Kauravas.

Chetan

Shree Hari Chetan, please include your last name in future
postings. Gita Talk Moderators. Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------

Prem as one of the 10 laxans of Maanav Dharma
holy vedas prescribe 24 years to 48 years of brahm charya for man
and 16 years to 36 years braham charya for woman
but for holy vedic vivah it is one of the pre -requisites that there
should be preeti between would be vivah couple and therafter they
should live fully with mutual preeti .

in vedas sex is for only re-production purpose and not at all for
entertainment or joy or fancy or business or porno.

brahm rishi vashishtha had 3 times sex with his dharampatni
Arundhati for santaan (child) production and she gave birth to 3
putras .
why? coz garbahdhan is a holy vedic sanskaar and putra prapti is
possible with proper sanskaar vidhi in holy vedas there is
recomendation to produce up to 10 putras. but all will not marry at
least half of them. they will go to sanyaas
or aditya brahmcharya or go to Rishi maharishi line and become
devata group people. this is required for a rashtra to be strong in
all fields . why ? coz it increases the porushey on the land. Holy
vedic Porushey has powers to do wonders and make the maanav jeevan
shukhi and sampaann, while advancing towards Mokhsa.
in all the four ashrams prasapar (mutual) preeti is very much
recommended.

Therfore preeti poorvak samajik jeevan yapan is fully allowed if the
preeti is not for ulterior motives .
ramans shriman

----------------------------------------------------------
I sincerely DON'T believe that it is a sin for a married man to love
a single or married woman other than his wife or for that matter the
other way around!
It is not always the case that it is not love and just lust...as
love will not make other people suffer!!!
what about a case where the married man/woman never got the love
that he/she desired in the first place? I ask you this
question....what does a man/woman do if his/her sexual desires and
desires for love is not ...i repeat not reciprocated in the same
manner or even lesser manner in which he/she has given!!!
To put it simply...what does a man/woman do if he/she doesn't get
100% in a relationship where he/she has given more than 100%??????
Is it not sin on their partner who "makes" such situations and ruin
the lives of people who have not indulged in any sexual activities
before marriage thinking that he/she will save it for his/her
partner for after marriage...and then he/she finds that his/her
partner is not interested in sex at all !!!!!!!
What does that person do????????
Waste his/her life?????
just so that they don't fall into the bracket of "sinners" by the so
called keepers of religious faith !!!!!!!!!!!!
i dissagree completely with it!!!!!!
i don't think that the said person has committed any crime!!!!

Unless his/her sexual desires are fullfilled in the marriage the
person goes through so much agony which only these people who
suffers can understand!!!!

Anish Naik

----------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone..!
I just want to asked whether it is a sin to love a married
man ?.....even gita says that to love everyone....!no offence no
issue but as i was reading this forum put up by Sharmilaji, found
interesting...but certainly not agree with the answers....i respect
everyone's individuality and its a free to speak out your view, but
i personally dont agree with answers that it is a SIN....paramatma
is great.....thanks...hari om
ajay mehta
----------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari Ram Ram
Ajayji, this forum is not just about personal opinions and views.
It is about understanding the principles laid down by Sri Bhagwaan
in Gitaji and other scriptures, and awakening the "vivek"
discriminative faculty that we have been blessed with, to uplift our
Self by the Self. God has clearly stated in the Gita -

"Uddharedaatmanaatmaanam naatmaanamvasaadayet
Aatmaiva hyaatmano bandhuraatmaiva ripuraatamanah" (Gita 6:5)

"A man must raise himself by his own effort. He must not degrade
himself; for the Self is his own friend and the Self is also his own
enemy."

The point is that man alone is responsible for his own spiritual
rise or downfall. No one else is.

If you have misunderstood the message of Sri Bhagwaan, then sadhaks
can help clarify, therefore please be more specific in your
responses. This forum is not about free expression of your
beliefs / opinions and values system.
From Gita Talk Moderators,
Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
sita ram
To all who show their concern in my question, i am happy to hear
different views and comments.thank you so much i understand fully
what you all are saying. it is so confusing to me grow up seeing this
happening over and over.
DO YOU THINK PRAYER HELPS TO MAKE A PERSON BETTER? i saw a
priest(pandit)who suppose teach us to be loyal, he is having an
affair in spite having his wife and kids,also the wife is having an
affair also. i am sorry if i am asking the wrong questions or making
anyone angry,

ram ram
sharmilla
----------------------------------------------------------

The answer could be understood in another way...
If you love and get married to him and then another
woman comes up this very question......What would be your
answer.....?
If your answer is sin.......then it is sin even now.....

Sushil Jain
----------------------------------------------------------
Hare Krishna,
Of course the married man is more sinner, he is double responsible
than you.
But you should think of yours only. What ever you do will make or
break your life.
You are an innocent girl who is trapped by a demon.
You pray God to give you courage and power so that you can rid of
this demon.
If you want a happy future, get rid of this demon.
Pray God whole heartedly he will listen to you, its guaranteed.
Ashok Goenka
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

It is both the parties who have sinned ! But it is no solace to
either party
that other too has sinned. Every sin is individual in quantity and
quality.
Punishments are also individually meted out. The world/nature also
treats both
differently and individually. Law of Karma too operates differently
for each one
of them. Imprints on consciousness also would be different.
Naturally, because
both have different genders, different circumstances, different mind
sets,
different duties/dharmas, and different 'bhavas' (inner
expressions) !

It should be understood that in such cases the world/nature metes
out punishment
to lady more than to the male. In the instant case too, there would
always be a
backing to the married man by his family , once he retraces/
promises to retrace
. Entire family would wish/hope/pray that he comes back and almost
certainly
would welcome him back and forgive him when he retraces - to save
the family.
Nature also may protect/ provide for innocent ones of that already
existing
family too. They have not commited any sins. But who would come to
the rescue of
female, even if in percentage terms the male is at more fault ?

A Lady always has more responsibility and always has to suffer more.
Females
conceive not males. Nature has made both differently. Effects of
fall out etc
are also different for both. Fame and ill fame are directly
controlled by Divine
Laws. Who will forgive her? See the history. Who suffers more? Who
will take her
in arms when she retraces ? What ashamed parents can do? God - yes !
But the
world/Mother Nature ? They are lesser likely to forgive her than in
case of male
having family ! Right or wrong- but this is a fact well known to
each of us,
WELL IN ADVANCE , that female is generally at disadvantage ! This is
how it is !
Why , is a different question altogether- not of any help to the
sufferer.

Apart from famous sayings such as Love is blind, To err is human
quoted by the
questioner, in the example given by her, there is one more equally
famous saying
prevalent in the world is that it never remains hidden when one is
drunk and one
is in love ! At that point disadvantage of not having a home of her
own for
balance life is with female not with the male.

Hence it is no solace to know that other too is sinning. She should
immediately
do what Mira Dassji has suggested. No two opinions about the
same.Mike too
brought out the same exactly, and so only is correct.

"Getting carried away" - is unilateral ! No other, but one's own
mind, and one's
own desires make one to get swayed or slip/fall. Each human has
conscience to
refer to. Each has got history to look at.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Sharmillaji, In your last posting, I sense a justification... words
like
"carried away" and "it happens to a lot of women".... OK ! Now
FORGET ABOUT THE
PAST ! Right now you know the Truth as expressed by all these
sadhaks. You
know that this food contains POISON.

Are you going to continue to say that many others are consuming it,
therefore it
is OK for me to do so ? Where do you think that will lead?

Swamiji says - "You want to EAT POISON FILLED ladoos, and not be
poisoned. How
is that possible ?" The reason you are questioning and asking about
whether
this act is sinful and feeling uneasy and somewhat disturbed and
unhappy is that
you have indulged in enjoyment at other people's expense, and if you
continue
then you will have to face the pain and sorrow that follows. You
simply cannot
escape it.

The choices are simple per Swamiji - 1) Either eat the poisoned
ladoos and get
poisoned or 2) Don't eat and remain ever healthy and blissful.
Therefore no
dilly dally, no justification, no rationalization.

Read Gita 18:38 - The happiness that initially comes from union
(coming
together) appears like nectar, but in the final analysis, it is like
poison.
(Gita 18:38).

If this choosing is difficult, then I sincerely ask you to follow
through with
what was written earlier based on Swamiji's teachings - Seek refuge
in only
Bhagavan and turn yourself over to Him for guidance and help. Please
confirm
to the group that you have done so.

Meera Das
Ram Ram

----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Say Holy Scriptures thus:

Whenever youth rises upto its climax, feverish passions dance;
then , only destruction results. They alone are to worshipped , they
are the great souls and they alone are humans in this world who have
easily crossed over the perils of youth.

In the string- tossed bodily cage of the puppet doll of flesh,
endowed with muscles, bones and joints of a man or a woman, what
good is possibly there?

O Humans ! See if it is pleasing after separating the skin, flesh,
blood, tears, eyes, etc ; why are you deluded in vain ?

When you experience moon-like youth intent on lust; then you
experience old age destroying the beauty of body like a missile of
snow fallen on the face of a lotus, like a storm, the autumnal cloud
and a river, destroy the tree on the bank.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sister

By asking about 'sin', are you concerned about that person's next
life? By 'love' are you suggesting 'a marriage with the single /
married person'?

Extra marital relations are not only illegal in many countries. Its
great debate that it is allowed in some religions and followed by
kings (King Dasaratha has 3 wives - not sure if married at the same
time or different times) in Hindu religion. I am not sure how others
in this forum defends such acts in Hindu religion, such practice
(Rama practiced what Hinduism represents) is not generally
acceptable, irrespective there is sin or otherwise.

Regards
Venu Komanduri

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Self,

Love , True Love is Dharma.

It is our true Nature.

Dharma is not a belief, or a concept, or a peculiarity of region,
a race, or a religion.

Dharma is One-ness. Dharma is the path. Dharma is the goal. Dharma
is True Love and Loving.

To understand Dharma, one has to understand one’s own true Self .

And now to Danee ( not real name ) and her predicament . May I
share some thoughts on Love and Sex, as Dharma would have us
practise them ?

Your body is your husbands, even as his body is yours. It is a Gift
of Krishna to you both. Krishna plays the wife. Krishna plays the
husband. He is the love between the two. He, who knows this , knows.
He, who does not choose to know , will never know ! He remains
ignorant. And always perpetuates his own suffering with beliefs,
concepts and thoughts of his own Mind’s making; never Dharma.

The wife is a wife to her husband, when she loves him with her
body, mind and soul. A husband is a husband to the wife, when he
loves her with his body, his mind and his soul.

In reality both are not â€"two. And the aim of both is to reach One-
ness… the No-mind state; Union of body, mind and Soul.

Even to reach one-ness, true One-ness , the discipline of One-ness
is the way. It has been propounded as the Royal Yoga, or the
Ashtanga Yoga. ( yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratihara,
dharna , dhyana , samadhi ). The first shaloka ia " Atha Yoga
Anushasnam" .............. here and now, I choose the discipline of
Yoga ....)

Back to the subject. The Lord himself is the husband , himself is
the wife. To realise it, the wife and the husband have to live in
love and harmony. And a certain discipline has to be practised
within the Family…. practised for oneself, as also for the sake of
being role-models to one’s progeny… to put them on the Path of
Self-discipline.

So, the wife, the realised wife, the enlightened wife, living in
Love and Loving( Compassion ) for the whole creation, understands
that body-love is also Love, but only for Krishna ( her husband ? )
and does indeed never look at another man. She sees only in her
husband, the divine lover of Radha (herself),------------ Krishna .

So, too, the enlightened husband , loving the whole creation, does
not lust after another woman; for him, his wife is Radha , the
divine lover of Krishna ( himself ? the Self ? )

This sort of Love, however, seldom, very seldom, blossoms in this
age. And the husband and wife are always at war ! And, then
suddenly, a strong urge to find what one has not found in the
realtionship within the four walls of Family, seizes one ! And, no
sooner that happens .................. the ' third' , the ' other'
appears on the scene .................... as if to fulfil one's self-
created wish ...............

( it is different that much later , history will repeat itself, and
the blame-game shall take over in the new
relationship..............Ah ! It is a situation , where one
beggar expects from the other beggar the wealth that neither
has ......... )

In this Kaliyuga, all has gone askance. Sex has become ‘
entertainment’, rather than ‘ communion’.

India has been a Land of Dharma . God Realisation was once the
only aim of Life and living. And all conduct was defined in that
context; each person had his Prakriti, and each person was guided by
Dharma to play his role in the world but the aim was shortening the
distance between his self ( ego), and the Self ( God ) during a
particular Lifetime. He sought guidance for his conduct from the
Shastras,( the Upanishads…. the essence of which is given in
Bhagvada Geetha ). Chapters 13, 14, 17 and 18 of Bh. Gt. give divine
counsel for conduct, even though all other chapters so do too.

Now, the Play of Life comprises only of Life in the World and Life
within the Family. And , as ‘ Family’ is the smallest unit of
Society,and the values practised within the family only will get
reflected in Society, the Knowers of Truth ( Rishis, Munis) laid
down a code of conduct within the family; a code of discipline
that , if practised within the family, will also get reflected in
the conduct outside the Family.

The qualities / attitudes , which need to be inculcated as
discipline to reach Yoga ( union with God ) are given in chapter 13,
and the same are first to be practised within the family.

Sorry, I have digressed a little. Back to the Family, the husband
and wife relationship-------------! Dharma propounds about the role
of a woman, being primarily , that of a loving Mother , Mother
Prakrirt has made her a Mother ; a woman is not a woman, if she is
not ( in Truth) loving and tender to her children.

Sex between husband and wife becomes divine, if both follow
Dharma ; an Orgasm, you may have noticed , is completely a No-Mind
state ( so is samadhi !!) And orgasm , especially in a woman, is a
total body, mind , soul phenomenon . Sex is God created, and
cannot , therefore, be other than divine. But, when it becomes ‘
lust’, ( sex without discipline), it leads us away from Yoga , God
and existence. It leads the Mind into the world of senses, an
infinitely pleasure prone world, , but which creates distance
between the individual and One-ness , which Existence is !

Well, Danee, the next thing that psychology adequately teaches us (
not opposed to Dharma ), a woman has to play so many roles in the
conjugal relationship.A man seeks in his woman so many aspects of
love. She has to be a mistress , a mother, a sister, a counsellor
leading him towards One-ness of Existence ( dharma ). So too, the
woman seeks a father figure in her husband , a lover, a friend, a
companion, a guide and a guru.

But , as I said earlier, all this above becomes an understanding ,
only when Life’s aim is God realisation. Today, when Life’s aim
is only material gain and sensual happiness, all has gone awry !

Enough ! I got carried away by my own thoughts ! Do forgive me .
Dani is the blessed one…… and she is herself aware. She knows
how to live ‘ Dharma ‘ in the context of today’s movement of
Time and Space; yet, she will agree that the Basics of Dharma do not
ever change. If they do, then Dharma is not Dharma …. True
Dharma .

Krishna Himself guides the Danees of the world. He is the True
Husband and Lover . His games are inscrutable . Surrender to Him is
best .

Love to you, and Blessings.

Your own Self
narinder bhandari

AUM
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
I agree with all the views ,i agree its a sin ,but i have another
question, is it a sin for the married man to be in love with a single
woman, well you see this every day in society, different situations.
i am asking is it only the woman that has sinned or is it both
parties, for example, the man has his wife, and in love with a
single woman, and that single woman got all carried away with his
love, how do we picture this, i mean it happens to a lot of women
out there,

sita ram
sharmilla
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Bol

Of course it is a sin. It is also a sin for a man other than husband
to love a married woman. These are instances of ADULTERY.

Is it really "LOVE"? Or is not "LUST"?

Clearly, it is not LOVE but LUST; love does not result in
pain and suffering for fellow human beings.

Pray to Bhagavan to help you cease this "LOVE" affair and allow
the family to live in peace and happiness.

Hari Om,

Krishna S. Narinedath.
----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Sharmilaji, Many sadhaks have firmly and beautifully responded to
your question. If you agree that they are right, and agree that what
is going on is a sin, then at this very second, stop everything...
no more rationalization, no more justification, no more - it makes
me feel good, no more he makes me feel special, no more I feel
loved, no more I love the attention, no more I love the excitement
of meeting in hiding... and all that nonsense....NO MORE !!!!

SIMPLY STOP and call out to God. call out to Him and ask for help!
He will guide you, you will see the magic thereafter. Only once
call out to Him and ask for help, and say you are helpless ! Say
to Him that even if I am a sinner, I am Yours! Tell Him that even
though you agree to what the sadhaks are advicing you, you cannot
help it. Simply do this at this very moment. He will do the rest,
because He is the Purifier of the sinful! Protector of the helpless!
Even the sinful ones attain salvation by Him alone. Even those that
are incapable of helping themselves, once they turn to Him, He will
make them capable.

This lover boy will do this again and again. Most likely you are
not the first one he is having a relationship with, and not the
last. Be sure of this. Listen to the advice of Vyasji, Goenkaji,
Shashikalaji, Gee Waman, Ben, Pratapji, Hariji, Ushaji, Sushilji and
all other sadhaks... you are getting a very clear message. These
messages are directly from God Himself.

And have you thought about where this can end up? The truth is
human life is too precious and not to be wasted away like this.
This boosting of ego, feeling good while in lust is shortlived. The
the minute it becomes old... it is another story. So far you have
not experienced the pain and suffering that follows, not only to you
but all parties involved. Please listen to the advice of the
sadhaks and seek help from God.

Believe me, if you put an end to this! All will be
relieved.. "Tyaagaatshaantiranantaram" (Gita 12:12). Peace
immediately follows when you give up from your inner being. Swamiji
says... why not leave first, what is going to leave you later on.
All will be happy and peaceful, including yourself and this lover
boy!!! There is no doubt about this ! You will see the magic!

"Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niraamayaaha
Sarve Bhadrani Paschyantu, Maa kachid Dukhbhagbhavet."

May all be Happy; May all be Healthy (free of disease),
May all experience auspiciousness and joy at all times: Let no one
experiences any pain and sorrow."

Meera Das
Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------

-Shree Hari-

Dear Sharmilla,

BHAGAVAD GITA CHAPTER 16

Led astray by many fancies,
Covered by delusion's meshes,
Addicted to gratifying
Lust, they fall into a foul hell. (Gita 16:16)

He who sets aside the counsels
Of scriptures from desire's impulse,
Attains not unto perfection,
Nor happiness, nor Goal Supreme. (Gita 16:23)

The scriptures should be your guide in
What should be done and what should not.
Knowing what the scriptures prescribe,
You should act here within the world. (Gita 16:24)

Sin is a term used mainly in a religious context to describe an act
that violates a moral rule...(ex Wikipedea).

That would answer your question.

However to extricate oneself from falling into the trap, or to
extricate oneself from the Ego ridden mess one has created, well
Gitaji 16: 24 is a good pointer, along with:

B.G. 18
Fly to him for refuge with all your being, Arjuna! By his grace you
shall obtain supreme peace and the eternal abode. (Gita 18:62)

My favorite poet/bard is Robert Burns, reflecting on Jee Jee
Shashikalaji's response, I will quote,(in modern English) these
potent words of his, "Oh Lord the gift to give us, to see ourselves
as others see us".

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike (Keenor)
----------------------------------------------------------
it is a really interesting question. this is not a question that
gives rise to a mental dilemma. No legal or social norms would
approve of this. Again no religion approves this. I wonder how
someone can have doubt on this subject.

Next, i would not get into the genuineness of your love or quality
whether it is love or lust or infatuation. that is for you to decide
being a grown person.

The word sin is very hard to define in the context of Gita. the
ordinary precepts fall away in this context. Gita prescribes that the
most important thing to do is to do ones swadharma. No matter if all
the world is against you, no matter if all of them blame you, if you
do and believe that you are doing something which is good for all and
without any attachment to the fruits of the labour, no sin attaches
to the doer. i think the venerable sadhakas would agree to apply this
yardstick.

now if Sharmilaji can prove to her own self that by loving this
married man, her action will fall exactly as per the above yardstick
definitely it wont be a sin. Now the judgement is with her.

Having said that, it is most unlikely that all the corners of the
yardstick above will be fulfilled by Sharmilajis action.

Again i wonder why Sharmilaji popped up this question in this forum?

Let us look at the way the argument is constructed a little more
closesly :

And what if it is not a sin ?

And when she is asking this question, after having loved this person
or just when planning to love ?

And what is that,
we are all "humans", not all the natural tendencies of humans are
sanctioned by the scriptures. to murder someone else may be the
natuarl tendency of a person. Does she say, murder may not be a sin ?

it is "usual" to love a person - Not all "usual" things are pardoned
by scriptures. the scriptures are here to take us away from our usual
things and render us into something superior.

i am loving this married man, is it a sin . i wont answer this
question on the social or legal front

sivaraman_rk

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Hari Om

Yes , it is a sin , whichever way , one may see that- unless that
love is the love of the nature of a sister's love for her brother or
a mother's love to her son or a daughter's love to her father. Other
than these varieties of love, any other type of love with an
already married man by a woman is definitely a sin. Be it Social
norms, ethical norms, or even be it from purely legal view point.
It is not correct to say that Love is blind. The correct statement
is LOVE MAKES A MAN BLIND. But so does greed, anger, attachment,
pride ! Yes we are humans. That is not a weakness. That is a
strength in fact. There are certain basic norms of conduct which
are applicable to humans . We are certainly not animals. We have
been given by Mother Nature and Father Paramatma a special asset
called DISCRIMINATION. A human is entitled to form his own family ,
surely ! But -
Sin no 1. no one is entitled to break others' family. That is sin in
itself.
Sin no 2 , is mis-utilisation of human birth endowed upon us by God.
Sin no 3 is breaking of societal norms and thereby causing general
disharmony.
Sin no 4 is spoiling one's own ANTAHKARANA and causing violence to
one's own self.
Sin No 5 is direct breach of the Laws of Land. Then , there is
direct disrespect to one's conscience.

No worldly love, with worldly people , in direct contravention of
accepted norms can ever be justified, under the pretext that love is
blind and we all are humans. Hence the conduct under question is not
normal and can not result in any positive results to any one. Such
love arises out of mind/body demands, generally. Such love generates
demoniac properties in one, besides. Neither SHRUTI ( History,
Scriptures, traditions, past results when humans undertook such
blind acts) , nor YUKTI ( logic, rationale) , nor ANUBHUTI (
conscience, one's direct experience) support indulging in love with
an already married man.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Hare Krishna,
I think it is sin to give pain to a person (in this case your
lover's wife and family). If a person suffers because of you, you
have to pay for it.
What you call love is only physical attraction, you can have true
love only with GOD. Rest all changes with time.
Use your conscious and think that what will you do in case the man,
you love, goes for another girl after using you for few years.
Don't trust anyone except GOD and you are trusting a man who, by
deceiving his wife, has proved that he is not trustful.
Ashok Goenka
----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

I will cover only one aspect.

One of the best yardsticks to judge if we are committing a sin , is
to evaluate as to how we would have felt had we been on the other
side of the table. In the instant case if that yardstick is applied
then it translates into the lady loving an already married man,
stepping into the shoes of wife/parents/children of that married
man. How one would have felt , had another lady fallen in love with
your husband citing the reasons - Every one is a human or love is
blind etc? No one can guage the pain which a married woman feels
when she finds her home broken due to some one loving her hubby or
due to her hubby loving someone ! Only she can guage or the Divine
Laws of our Eternal Father ! One can't estimate the pains/shame
which the children or the parents or the family members feel within
their hearts , when they find out that one of their members (he or
she) is indulging into infidelity or adultery . Only the aggrieved
or the God can measure that ! Keeping in view the above only , one
should take decisions . One should never never do what one does not
want for himself/herself !

Law of Karma is absolutely ruthless ! 100 times more is meted out in
intensity, in velocity, in quality, in quality, in every subtle or
gross respect by the Mother Nature INVARIABLY to one who sins ! To
one who does that thing to another, what one does not want for
herself/himself.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
if you're in love with a married man it is best to refrain yourself
because if you act upon it and you break that home apart you are a
participant in the destruction of an intact society.

"Lift up the self by the Self And do not let the self droop down.
For the Self is the self's only friend And the self is the Self's
only foe." - Sri Krishna (from The Bhagavad Gita)

Ben
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas, Namaskar

Again this an effect of a male dominated society. I humbly would like
to ask a counter-question...If a bachalor man is in true love with a
woman having a family..husband and kids...Is it a sin?

...Gee Waman
----------------------------------------------------------

It is no crime to fall in love but if a woman falls for a married
man then it is a sin.
Hari Shanker Deo

----------------------------------------------------------
Hari om.
Yes, it is the greatest sin one could ever commit.
we should never indulge or even think of such sin.
If she does so, she is the offspring of SURPANAGA __Ravana's sister.
IT may look lovely but she will face great calamities in life.
This is Kali yug the result will be seen v.v.soon.
Any girl should go away from such sinful crime.
Reading Sundarakandam (from Ramcharitramanas) for CHitha Sudhi (self
purification) and Chanting Rama Nama will free us from 'lust'
It is evil to even think of it.
Even raising a question will make us evil.
Hari Om.
Usha Sridhar
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
They say "love is blind" but "Marriage is an eye opener".
Such love with married man with family is a big no, no!
There will be trouble down the road. It may ruin the family of
married man, another inappropriate thing.

Only a blind love can prompt one to do this. Blind love blinds us,
and is generally from physical attraction only which fades away so
fast, you wouldn't believe. It brings lot of suffering.
One can have respect for some one but to love with an intention to
uproot families is highly inadvisable. Sooner one puts break on
such relationship, the better it is for all involved.

When Love which is not of the mind, not dependent on anything,
asking nothing in return, then such love will guide you to love as
appropriate, Spousal, parental, siblings, friends, In-laws, and
above all Love for God. As a matter of fact, God is such Love!
My humble request, based on many unpleasant experiences of such
cases, as well as knowing what works in marriages, is to stay away!
What works, is total non-dependencies, non-expectations in all and
such relationships! It is hard to stay away from love like this one,
I know full well, but remain prayerful, asking help of God sincerely!
I can almost bet that it will be a blessing in disguise!

Namaskar.................Pratap Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------------

Wonderful question...
Many of face such situations....and get confused about right and
wrong...

Answer is simple.......one can find this out oneself...

If by doing something (like this one) one feels happy and all others
also feel
happy then it is not a sin.....and vice a versa..

Loving is Holy but attachment is Sin.......
In this case, it is the attachment which is causing pain......
Attachment always causes pain......

Right understanding of LOVE....is important.....and try and get to
know about it...
Know also unconditional love......which gives joy and happiness...

Wish you go after happiness......inner happiness.....not attached to
anything outside.....

Sushil Jain
----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------
Priy Sadhaks,
In my view we all are in love with each other. But with a difference
from what people call love today.
We all are in divine love .
Love always gives.
Selfishness always wants.
Like Radhaji loves Krsna and even today & forever Their divine love
overwhelms the world. It was divine love only.
Prem (divine love), Tapasya (austerity), tyaag (sacrifice), sadhana
(spiritual practice) ka naam (name) hai.

Agar aisa prem karne ki himmat ho to saare sansaar se kijiye na prem.
(If you have the courage to love like that, then love the entire
world like that). God is all.
VASUDEV SARVAM. LOVE ALL ALIKE.
Love U all
Always at thy lotus feet
Raja Gurdasani
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sharmila

Love is not a Sin. One cannot say love in any form is either crime
or sin. but to break some body elses home is definetly a crime and a
sin. You may admire a married man, you may also love him but that
does not give you any right to snatch his family's security or
happiness. He has created a life with some one else and he is
responsible for his creation, so if you truly love this person, you
should allow him to carry on his responsibilities.

Aparna gunjikar
----------------------------------------------------------
I am not a great one. I am just a man traveling through life. I
humbly submitt the following. The answer you will only find in your
heart, as Guru manifests it to you. But be aware of your mind. In
life, ego and mind must work for our soul, not the other way around,
otherwise, we will be living fully in Maya.

There is no crime, there is no sin, but there is illusion in the
mind´s pursuit for happiness. Karma does not categorize our
actions. All action generates a reaction, independently of our
intents, our illusory desires, it is the force generated by our
actions that simultaneously generate a reaction.

"O best among men (Arjuna), the person who is not disturbed by
happiness and distress and is steady in both is certainly eligible
for liberation."

14:16 "It is said (by sages) that the fruits of sattwic action are
harmony and purity (of heart and mind); that those or rajasic action
are pain and suffering; and that the fruits of tamasic action are
the various menifestations of spiritual ignorance (dullness of mind,
slothfulness, stupidity, and general helplessness in confrontation
with life's difficulties)."
14:17 "Wisdom arises from sattwa; lust and avarice, from rajas; and
(the darkness of spiritual) ignorance, from tamas."

Becoming Love is to be liberated. Sometimes we confuse (Maya)
desire, possesion and re-memory with love.

18:49 "That person comes closest to attaining perfection who keeps
his intellect non-attached to everything outside the Self, who
reigns in victory over the Self, and from whom desires have fled."

Sat Nam
-------------------------------------------------------
Sharmilaji
An unusual question. But there appears to be a genuine anxiety to
know the proproiety of such a love.
First the very fact that a doubt arose as to its propriety in
dicates the the person who raised the question must be feeling it is
wrong.
Apart from this, if such a love makes somebody unhappy (the spuse
of the married man)definitely it is a sin.
All this on the assumption that the doership is attributed to
oneself. If one genuinely believes that there was no doership and
the so called love happened without conscious doership there is no
need to feel guilty. If the matter stopped at the stage of just
feeling love without it's expression to other involved parties the
damage is less.
What the scriptures say on this is a matter to be cleared by experts
in the field.

vrsarma podury
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------
Is it a Sin to Love a Married Man?
To answer your question , first of all it is to be understood the
real inner meaning of love and the difference between love and
lust .To the ordinary love is in reality lust , lust for romance ,
sexual gratification, material possession and things of these sorts
and not real love. love is of a much higher level of inner feeling
as it is said " i belong to you ". When one is in real love , he or
she feels immense bliss in loving someone and be loved by someone in
feeling mentally without any external expressions.
Love in the guise of lust by a woman to a married man is definitely
sinful, it will break the settled family relationship, cause
friction, discord and loss of harmony in the man's family which is an
extreme vice.
rathindra prasad lahiri
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear friend, I saw your mail. I would like to answer your question.
i am a woman of 70yrs old but still a practising advocate with so
many chalenges faced in my life. The love of any kind should be
sacred pure and should not hurt the people around you because you
are a social animal. it is a pity that love is being interprested
in the present days only as a sexual love between man and woman.
there are so many facets of love. If you give importance to them you
will not ponder over the particular love which you have mentioned.

The marital love is intended to preserve the sanctity of family
life. the children should grow in a proper atmosphere. there should
be life long companionship . In any country you take the monogamy is
given importance except in Muslim Law. Even in Muslim the prophet
says that if you are able to maintain another you can have a wife.
Even that law is being changed in some progressive countries. Except
a few Muslims all are following the principle of Monogamy.

If anybody loves a married man the family breaks. Before marriage
one should be careful and later they cannot lame excuses that they
are married hurriedly and there is no love between them. Love has to
be nurtured developed because it is a physical love attraction.
Where as the motherly love is out of blood. there is no blood
relation between spouses and the off spring are the result of
lovemaking. Why a divorced woman is not marrying when she has
children? becuase she is mother. Even men who have lost their wives
will not like to marry because they have to take care of the
children. we see so many mothers young only bring up the children.

I cannot use the word sin but I can say marrying a married man is
not legal and moral and it is called adultery in the legal
terminology as far as the man is concerned.

Thank you

jayashree sarathy

----------------------------------------------------------
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Ram Ram
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