Saturday, January 31, 2009

[gita-talk] Re: Bhagavad Gita - Daily One Verse Brief Explanation - II 2:5 II

|| Shree Hari ||
Ram Ram

II 2:5 II

gurun ahatvaa hi mahaanubhaavan
sreyo bhoktum bhaiksyam apeeha loke
hatvaartha-kaamaamstu guroonihaiva
bhunjiya bhogaan rudhira-pradigdhaan

"Better it is to live on alms in this world than to slay these noble elders, because after killing them we could enjoy only blood-stained pleasures, in the form of wealth and sense-objects."

From Gita Prabodhani in Hindi pg. 19 by Swami Ramsukhdasji

Chapter 2, Verse 5 is as follows;

Gurun = the teachers

Ahatvaa = instead of slaying

Hi = indeed

Mahaa-Anubhaavan = having many experiences and the most noble hearted

ShreyaH = better

Bhoktum = to eat

Bhaiksham = alms

Api = even

Eha Loke = in this world

Hatvaa = having slain

Arthkaamaan = wealth and desires

Tu = indeed

Gurun = teachers

Eha = here

Eva = also

Bhunjeeya = enjoy

Bhogaan = enjoyments

Rudhir- Pradigdhaan = stained with blood

English translation:-

Better indeed is to live on alms in this world than to slay these noble-hearted teachers and great souls with exemplary performances and a variety of experiences. But if I kill them, then my enjoyments of wealth and desires in this world, will be stained with their blood.

Arjuna is still entangled in his personal role and personal relationships with Grandsire Bheeshmaachaarya and Guru Dronaachaarya. He is unable to capture the big picture. He is unable to comprehend the basic fact that the impending battle is not to settle personal scores but to ascertain the supremacy of righteousness over unrighteousness.

Arjuna continues to argue that he has no axe to grind with Grandsire Bheeshmaachaarya and Guru Dronaachaarya.

"Chastity is either abstinence or continence: while abstinence is that of virgins or widows; continence is that of married persons." …..Jer. Taylor.

It reminds me of a Shloka of Santa Raamadaasa in Marathi language;

"Shukaa Saarikhe PoorNa Vairaagya Jyaache, VashishThaa Pari Dnyaana Yogeshwaraache" i.e. while Shukaachaarya, the son of Maharshee Veda Vyaasa was an eloquent example of a man of complete abstinence & great knowledge and Brahmarshee VashisTha was an epitome of the complete knowledge of the Self; Yogeshwara Lord Krishna excels both of them.

Both Bheeshmaachaarya and Dronaachaarya represented the very top of the ladder and were towering personalities in the Kuru kingdom.

Bheeshmaachaarya had taken a vow that he will never marry and will never sire any children and he will always defend Kuru kingdom at any costs and consequences. His mother Satyavati had earnestly urged Bheeshma to sire children out of wedlock with Amba, Ambika and Ambaalika so that there will be a successor to the throne of Kuru kingdom. Bheeshma politely refused and suggested Maharshee Veda Vyaasa to sire them.

Drona, the son of Rishi Bhaaradvaaja, even though Brahmin by birth was the most respected expert in every aspect of warfare and their finest techniques. Before the arrival of Drona, Guru Krupa used to teach the Pandavaas and the Kauravaas. Drona proved himself to be far superior to all the contemporary experts in the art and science of military and therefore he was revered by all as `Guru Dronaachaarya'.

Bheeshmaachaarya proved his mettle by fighting like a ferocious lion for the first ten days similarly Dronaachaarya proved his worth by fighting tirelessly for the next five days out of the total eighteen days of the royal battle.

Arjuna's argument is, "What is the point in such bloodstained conquests if they ultimately result in the elimination of such finest of men like Bheeshmaachaarya and Dronaachaarya? And even if I succeed in eliminating them, what is the fun and enjoyment in the worldly delights, which are smeared with their blood? Even though both have their own personal compulsions to represent the Kauravaas against us, I beg to differ with you Lord Krishna and I prefer begging than slaying these noblest men; as in any case I will be impoverished by the heartless squandering away of their precious lives. At least, I do not want to be blamed for their slaughter in the annals of the history."

Arjuna continues his earnest appeal to Lord Krishna to sanction the exit or escape route for him. Lord Krishna has earned a title of `Rana-Chhodadaasa' i.e. one who ran away from the battlefield while fighting with King Jarasandha, as a tactical retreat. Arjuna thinks the he also does not mind a similar title as it is a path of the least efforts and softest option for him.

Lord Krishna patiently waits till Arjuna concludes his stellar arguments as if being himself a person endowed with the finest knowledge in the world.

Thanks & Best Regards,

Shrikant Joshi.


II 2:5 II

An Exceptional Fact

Lord Krsna, in the second and the third verses, orders Arjuna to array himself by casting off, petty faint-heartedness and fight.  But Arjuna gets him wrong, because he thinks that Lord Krsna had ordered him to wage war, so that he might enjoy the pleasure of kingship.* Arjuna however perceived only evil, in waging the war. He said that it would be better for him, if his opponents killed him in the war.  So with his mind affected by grief he sat slumped on the seat of the chariot (1/47).  He had also said, that Duryodhana and his companions being goaded by greed, were prepared to wage war. Now Arjuna says, for himself that if he carries out his order and wages war, he will enjoy only blood­stained pleasure in the form of wealth and sensual enjoyment. Thus, he perceives nothing but evil, in waging war.

When an evil comes to us, in the form of an evil, it is easier to do away with it, than when it comes in the garb of something good. Ravana and devil Kalanemi, could not be recognized by Sita, and Hanuman respectively, because both of them disguised themselves, as sages. Similarly, Arjuna perceives that it is virtuous not to wage war and it is an evil to wage the war, but he is completely mistaken. Hence, even Lord Krsna, finds it difficult and time consuming, to bring Arjuna round, to the realization of this fact.

Today in the name of unity in society, people are determined to abolish caste, stage of life system (Varna Asrama) thinking of their action, as virtuous. But they are not thinking about the disastrous consequences, that this abolition would force the people, to lead a degraded and demoniacal life. In the same way, in the accumulation of wealth, people do not perceive falsehood, fraud, dishonesty, knavery and treachery etc., as evils. Thus, here for Arjuna also, an evil of unmanliness has disguised itself, as righteousness and thus he says how he can slay his noble elders. It means, that whatever Arjuna considers a virtue, is in fact, an evil. But, it does not appear to him, to be an evil, as in the abandonment of his duty, has crept in the guise of virtue of nonviolence, because of his attachment for his relatives.

Appendix—The feelings of elders and preceptors such as Bhisma and Drona etc., are noble and pure because even while waging the war, they have no partiality.

From "The Bhagavad Gita - Sadhak Sanjivani" by Swami Ramsukhdasji pg 77-78 in English.


Shree Hari
Ram Ram
Thank you Shri Shrikantji Joshi for taking the initiative to support
this divine work and to Mrs. K Asani for requesting shloka
explanation on a daily basis.
From Gita Talk Moderators
Ram Ram

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[gita-talk] Re: On Being a Chaste Wife - to be Married Soon ! Seeking Advice!

Shree Hari
Ram Ram
Due to significant back log of pending emails... ONLY RESPOND if
previously not already covered by other sadhaks.
From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram
To Divine Brothers and Sisters

Thank you ! This little sister of yours could not have got a better
wedding gift. Each of my brothers and sisters were so right. Thank
You Vyasji and Raja Gurdasaniji in particular. Yesterday myself and
my fiance read the responses together. Oh ! They are so good. He has
agreed to be a "patnivrata" ! I said "Damn care" ! He assured me
that there will be no need for me to take a course in Judo or
Karate. I said "Damn care" !

Pranaams from both of us.

Shalini Bhardvaj
Jai Hanuman

A concluding verse (often quoted by Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj ) :



Just As: A married girl even while being in the home of her parents
never forgets her husband

Similarly: A male even while being in this world should never forget
Paramatma (Hari)

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee

In India a lot of importance is given to "chaste wife" ( Pativrata).
I want to know what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?
How does she conduct herself? How does her conduct impact her home?
Are there any visible results in her family? How does she get
emancipated from this worldly ocean merely because she is Pativrata?

I may hasten to add here that I am scheduled to get married in
second week of February this year. Hence an early advice from from
this Satsanga forum will be appreciated. Sorry for trouble..

Shalini Bhardvaj
Shree Hari
Ram Ram
REGARD. Please quote Gita/other scriptures, wherever possible and
avoid personal opinions. Kindly be CONCISE. Ram Ram

Pavitra is the word meant for pious feelings and acts both inner and
outworldly.With malign to none,one should love all and that is the
way leading to God. So live life that way.

Dear would-be-Patni,
For a successful married life, it is necessary that it is a couple of
Pativrata and Patnivrat. After marriage the girl goes to her husbands
home i. e. husbands family, wherein she has to adjust with her in-
laws and other family members. She is Patni, Bahu, Bhabhi and so on,
and soon she is likely to be a mother, and each of her role has
certain duties and responsibilities. Whatever, she should not lose
her self respect. If any member of the husbands family is harrassing
her, she should deal with self-respect.
In many families, it is a custom to say, we have performed
`Kanyadaan` and now she no longer belongs to our family. Her fate is
bound with the husbands family. That outlook need be changed. Her
parents should always support her if she is harassed at her `Sasur`

---Gee Waman

Dear Sadhaks,
My contention is that notwithstanding the question of surrender and
devotion to husband, is this surrender not subject to the tenets of
the laws of Dharma? Should a wife allow the husband to trample her
personality and existence? I think this is not correct. I think that
the duties and rights of both are completely inter-changeable and
must be full of giving and serving rather than taking or expecting
any thing.
This is a maturation of a relationship where when there are no
desires from each other. In such a relationship one rises in love
rather than the cliched falling in love.

Vispi Jokhi
Based on the issues addressed by Mahalaxmiji and domestic violence, how to you deal with a situations like that? Can she still follow dharma? What should a person do if she encounters a hubby like that? What are the alternatives available to her? Should she walk out of the home? What do scriptures state in this respect?



Lot of thoughts have been expressed by experienced sadhak. They all
are precious.
I would say Have ABHINN BHAV (Sentiments of inseparableness,
undivided, feeling of oneness). THAT U TWO BECOME ONE ENTITY HAVING
RAJA Gurdasani
Loving Divine,
I have nothing new to share except reiterating it in a different way
what has been already said...
Pati Parmeshwar OR Parmeshwar hi Pati?
It is ultimately paremshwar who is praised and prayed in pati.
Bhagwan said in BG, if you pray demi-god/goddesses, it reaches me!
So called pati in worldly sense is just a very miniscule one - no
different then patni - mamaivaansho jive loke...(BG)
If saint like Swami Ramsukhdasji has refrained himself from being
praised and worshipped , whom are we to promote pati ?
Meerabai was visiting a saint. He denied seeing a female.
Meerabahi send a message that there is only one male in this entire
universe, we all are female, who this new male has popped-up I do
want to see him... The saint came out of his hut feeling ashamed
and bowed down to Meerabai.
Just like patni has her duty to perform, pati equally has his - no
Just like pati is an atom of God, patni is too - no difference!
If patni can attain salvation worshiping parmeshwar in her pati
(demi-god), pati can too if he sees pareshwar in patni (demi-
goddess) - no difference!
Patni has been treated and worshiped as goddess in tantrik sadhanas,
nothing new!
Even Ramkrishna Parmhamsa worshiped his wife Ma Sharda as divine
mother. So break free of your notion of Pati Parmeshwar and attain
salvation just by seeing Parmeshwar in all...!
humble regards.

always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel
Please act according to your consciousness.
S S Bhatt
Hari Om

Mahalaxmiji ! Sadhak Venu in fact grasped the concept advanced by
Scriptures precisely in his latest post. It is a topic on which a
lot of precedences are available. Still I briefly reply to some of
your observations:

You say:

I do not have a problem, provided the man accepts his own
shortcomings, and does not pretend to be something he is not.

I say:

RIGHT. This dharma is a "bhava" of wife. It has nothing to do with
the conduct of husband. Insistence upon hubby accepting his
shortcomings is inappropriate and egoistical. This is precisely
where this dharma helps wife. God will never make hubby admit his
shortcomings !

You say

There is difference between seeing my husband as my own
personal "god", and recognizing him as the original, Supreme
Personality of Godhead.

I say

equal to a tip of needle? One who can manifest from a pillar or
from a statue made of stone, can He not manifest in husband? By the
way God is always personal.

You say:

I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own
sense of what she considers appropriate conduct.

I say:


You say:

There is a point where men will demand things that are totally
adharmic in the name
of, "surrender".

I say:

Every sadhan requires you to become "egoless". If hubby wants you to
do an "adharmic" conduct, do not obey him. Simple ! This dharma does
not require you to become servant or slave! Not at all ! Even God
does not expect you to be that.

You say:

There will often be times, in most marriages, where the man does not
have perfect conduct.

I say:

Where is the need for a perfect conduct from other side? Who is
perfect? Is wife perfect? Who has right to demand perfection? If
hubby seeks that in wife, he is wrong. But how does it matter to her?

You say:

With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man can
be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated. This
takes maturity, strength, and power.

I say

Sure ! You have written too little. A great wife brings back her
husband from hell or even from jaws of Yama. She is POWER in
herself. She is 1000 times superior to males! She is SHAKTI.

You say:

Without this maturity,
there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be

I say:

The hubby, however cruel he may be, will "actually" become God for a
devoted wife- ultimately-but as is the case with every other sadhan
after complete annihilation of her ego ! This is promise of Gita
and promise of all scriptures! Only the one who tries can know
this ! But in practice at the beginning itself generally a woman
surrenders and thus easily becomes egoless.

You say:

It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, "Oh, well, it's her

I say:

Every marriage is made in heavens based on your prior contractual
obligations. Where is doubt on that? What else except "karma" of
each can be responsible for what happens in this world ? Is God that
cruel that He will let you suffer on account of others' whims and
fancies? Only the "doer" suffers! No one else on his/her behalf.

You say:

Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and
physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a
while until he has some self control.

I say:

Why until he has some self control? It is an individual decision. A
separate karma in itself. Another option is to leave him forever.
Another is to lodge a police complaint. Who says no?

You say:

How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife?

I say:

We are talking here about the wife. Even when hubby is good to wife,
it is not necessary he is serving God.
You say:

This goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service
mood has to be mutual.

I say:

UNILATERAL. One's duty is always right of other. Duty and Right are
opposite terms.

In any case, Mahalaxmiji, a female has as many options of God
Realisation as a male has. It is her prerogative and choice as to
which she adopts. Every human being is independent in performing
his/her karmas.


Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


My dandavat pranams to all in this fourm.....

In regard to Vyasaji's inquiry, "Is there harm in seeing husband
as God" response is many fold. Does husband want to be seen
as God? If he truly has qualities of a sadhak, then he would defer
from any open demand for such, giving example of humility, love,
affection, and a balanced human being. At the same time, I believe
that yes, truly, my husband, and any husband, in the heart desires
that the wife should see him as HER god. I do not have a problem,
provided the man accepts his own shortcomings, and does not pretend
to be something he is not.
But there is a vast difference between seeing my husband as my
own personal "god", and recognizing him as the original, Supreme
Personality of Godhead. In as much as, one who has a drop of the
ocean in his palm, and thinks, "I have the entire ocean" is
certainly in illusion.....but at the same time, he or she certainly
does have the ocean in the palm of the hand!
There is too much abuse toward women today. I have personally
taken a course in domestic violence training. Although I recognize
the necessity for a wife to be vigilant at all times of her
husband's needs, in regard to being considered her worshipful deity,
I personally would never suggest that any woman give up her own
sense of what she considers appropriate conduct. There is a point
where men will demand things that are totally adharmic in the name
of, "surrender". A woman in this age of kali yuga must be fixed,
within her own heart, in understanding the tenants of scripture, and
the process of elevating her heart, through sadhan, so that she can
help her husband. There will often be times, in most marriages,
where the man does not have perfect conduct. The idea of him
being "God", with a capital "G" indicates that he can do no wrong.
I think that to try to act on this understanding is a big mistake.
But to accept him in the position of a "god" to the woman is a
different matter. Even the "gods" err at times, the Srimad
Bhagavatam is full of descriptions where they became enamoured of
their own power and beauty, committed offenses to their guru, and
then were cursed, or otherwise fell from their position.
With the help of a chaste, loving wife, who has maturity, a man
can be helped to see his shortcomings without being humiliated.
This takes maturity, strength, and power. Without this maturity,
there is every possibility that the woman will allow herself to be
This is my answer to Vyasaji's question. I believe he is
coming from a position where he does not necessarily even imagine
the inappropriate conduct that males, coming forth from
disfunctional and irreligious backgrounds, can inflict on their
wives. It is not appropriate or intelligent to say, "Oh, well, it's
her karma". Better to say, if the woman is being sexually and
physically abused, even verbally if it is extreme, step away for a
while until he has some self control. I believe that will give more
emphasis to the woman's role of being the better half of her
husband, she is trying to help him in serving the Lord, correct?
How is he serving the Lord if he is abusing the wife? The Lord
says, "One who says he is my devotee is not my devotee, but one who
says he is the devotee of my devote is actually my bhakta". This
goes both ways in husband and wife relationship.....service mood has
to be mutual.
I believe that to encourage a woman to have a bona fide guru, who
guides her to bhakti, linking with the Lord through devotion, will
allow her to discern how to treat everyone with humility and grace,
including her husband In the tenth canto of Srimad bhagavatm,
there were several wives of smarta brahmans, who against their
husbands desires, took food stuffs to Krsna and Balaram. The
husbands were too absorbed in their rituals to pay any attention to
the boys.
In this pastime, it is clearly explained that the wives were so dear
to the Lord, due to their willingness to accept His position, set
aside their dharmic relations, and serve Him regardless of any
external considerations.

Mahalaksmi Dasi

Hari Om

By the way , however he may be,

Is hubby not always in mind? Is he not a "real" Teacher? Is he not
Protector? Is he not Creator? Is he not Preserver? Is he not
Controller? Does he not carry the same burden which wife does? Like
God, does he not annihilate/destroy ego? Does he not prevail
ultimately? Does he not love ? Does anybody want to lose him? What
then is the difference between him and Him ? Does God not give
pains? Does God not rule? Does God not punish? Does God not instil
fear? Is God not authoritative? Does God not wash our eyes with
tears till they are clean enough to behold the reality?

What do you say dear Sadhaks?

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B


Dear Sadhakom

Vyasji asked a final question, in his latest response, on 'seeing
God in and treating husband as God'. This posting has taken many
turns and apparently is reaching this end - 'husband as God'. This
seems to be a logical for the discussion. When you treat 'husband'
or any body else for that matter as God, the standards mentioned
for 'pativrata', plus many more could be there, are a automatic fall
out of such belief. Spiritual-minded humans goal is to reach God and
there is no best way to treat the closest person with you as 'God',
in this case 'Pati' treating 'Patni' or Patni treating Pati as God.
Its the attitude, not the standards that make the way to Goal. Both
Pati and Patni have equal chance to win the game in this field of
spirituality. If my fellow saadhkom review the entire set of
responses on this topic, you would see a connection 'treat him or
her as God' is the basis for the responses.

Venu Komanduri


Thanks and regards to Sashikalaji, diamonds of advice from you to
ladies. Being a lady, you experienced and poured them out of life
and heart. Easy to understand and are logical too. What you
mentioned here is not as a tattvavaada, but as a tattvadarsibhi!!

Perhaps points 7 and 11 need some more details on your direction, or
your advice can be misunderstood. Remember your advice is universal
and applicable to all daughter-in-laws.
I would tend to add for point 7 is 'do not reply, but understand her
before making your point', for 11 is 'listen and share your
appreciation on good and concerns on bad'. 'Ignoring' can cause
difficulties later. There has to be balance in relationship.

Venu Komanduri
Pativrata means to be faithful to your husband. If she conducts
herself like this then her home will be like heaven. Her family will
prosper and by doing her duty she will be adding good karmas which
will definitely lead her to the right path and ultimately to

Hari Shanker Deo

Shree Hari, Ram Ram

1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?
A Pativrata wife is one who -
- Accepts "husband" as he is, and serves him through words, deeds
and thoughts i.e. follows Patni Dharma (wife's duties) rigorously.
- Has implicit faith in husband. A rare quality! e.g. Tulsi
- Does not seek any reciprocation from her husband
- Gives unconditionally, without expectation in return
- Simply by seeing Bhagwaan in her husband, can attain realization.
Nothing else is needed
- Is focused on her and her duty alone and becomes the shadow of her
- Draupadi is ideal wife - read Draupadi's advice to Rukmini.
- Sita ideal, provided there is Ram on other side
- Pativrata Dharma is not dependent upon husband's conduct
- Pativrata Dharma is not "servanthood" at all. It is a "bhava"
- Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to women, guaranteed
method for liberation/God Realization
- It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma. Almost
all women can observe this dharma. Key is relinquishing "Ego"
- "Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife" is the complete seNse in
PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.
- Per Vyas - Dharma is sadachar (virtuous, righteous, moral conduct
that should be followed), but it is practically impossible to stick
to in todays life.
- Chastity comes from your inner soul.

2.How does she conduct herself?
- do duty and proactively extend even more, obey all in husband's
family, do not talk back, don't react, listen, observe and stay
quiet, do not add fuel to fire ...They know more about each other
than you do. Take care of younger children and sister-in-law.
- she has strength of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring
him back, and also be as protective as durga when it comes to duty.
- SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND AHIMSA essential qualities for a
woman. (Gita Chapter 13)
- She acts according to her husband's desire, obediently and most
- act according to your consciousness.
- Bhavas towards husband come comparitively effortless.
- tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian marriage
- Mostly listen to your heart and you won't go wrong.
- Forgive others for their mistakes. This will strengthen the
- Respect and love the new family
- Beg Krushna to bless us with divinely qualities and
lead a contented life

3.How does her conduct impact her home?
- No ego clashes.
- benefits in personal, family, societal, all of mankind. following
Bhagwaan's ordinance, physical well-being, harmony, peace, spreading
fragrant happiness to all.
- Always Peace. Respect! Purity! Power! She is "Grihalaxmi" ! She
is "Annapurna" (Feeder) !! She is "Shakti".
- Obedient children
- Live a "Pavitra" life - pious feelings and acts both inner and
outworldly with being malign to none. One should love all and that
is the way leading to God.

4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely
because she is Pativrata?

- surrendering to husband far more natural than surrendering to God,
our personal experiences have proved that.
- all karmas, gets dispelled though her husband may be bad
- it is a chance for liberation from rebirth that only woman have.
- complete surrender, where wife has no ego, no desire, no wishes of
her own at all.
- She gets Realisation. She gets emancipation. She gets rewarded by
- A great wife is Shakti herself
- principles of surrender leading to "egoless", "desireless"
and "mamataless" (Gita 2:71)
- If we neglect to cultivate our love and affection for God, can we
truly find satisfaction?
- Prayer for blessings to walk alongside with husband, led and
guided by God and with presence of Guru at all times.
- Pativrata i.e. Faithful conduct will lead to good karmas,
righteous path, prosperous family, heaven on earth and ultimately
- ABHINN BHAV (Sentiments of inseparableness, undivided, feeling of
- Bottom like is just like a married woman does not forget her
husband, similarly never forget Paramatama.

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ?
- Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am God's. This whole
world is God's, so serve all as God's per Gita's without expecting
- Sri Krishna is foremost, and knowing that our relationship with
Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence that no one can take
- It is unwillingness to observe "egolessness" or drop the ego that
prevents one from following this dharma.
- Surrender unto Paramatma and do your duty.
- Accept Bhagwaan as everything (all relations)
- Do not give up your devotion to God
- Know yourself! All answers lie within!
- Key is to being satisfied within one's own Self (where Supreme
Lord resides).
RIGHT. This dharma is a "bhava" of wife.

- Believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji, but general, in
Gita (16-24). Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this
subject. Fortitude, piety, a friend and a wife are four tests in
times of adversity. She is convinced in her heart of hearts that she
cannot even dream in the world of a man other than her husband.


- option of pativrata dharma is a preferable one though not a
- Even in earlier days many wives did not qualify - Sita, Draupadi
- Today's time, a chaste wife is one who maintains fidelity, stays
together through good and bad times, and views other men as either
brother or father.
- absolutely necessary girl - patibrata and boy - patnibrata
- Dharmapatni- one who walks the path of dharma along with the
husband. She ensures that the husband walks the path of dharma!
- Marriages are destiny for the couple - only factor functioning
is "prior contractual obligations".
- Marriage Vows- not "patni"- but beloved friend. Friendship, trust
is the cornerstone. A two way street.. to walk the spiritual path.
- Compatibility, man-woman and their families - very important
- NO Dowry; No Extravagant Weddings or flaunting of Wealth
- Be humble, loving and caring
- Become a daughter to the new family
- also learn from your mum-in-law because she knows your husband the
- It should not be a burden to become "chaste wife", rather natural
- Marriage is Sacred, offering everything one is given - body, mind
and spirit
- love, loyalty and compassion - Key to good married life
- "chastity"- monogamous relationship, brings social structure much
needed for healthy progeny.
- Is Chastity a one-sided thing? Unfair?
- are you sure that pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected
to be? This appears male-oriented views.
- Only the "doer" suffers! No one else on his/her behalf.
- Acceptance by both families, without interference
- Sacred Mantra - "You cannot get a better spouse than the spouse
you have now".
- Communication - Key
- Love so much such that one cannot live without the love. Love
conquers all!
- the body is for creation, full expression, celebration
- Swamiji's focus was more vivek, how to quickly attain Salvation!
- Read Naari dharma (duties of a woman)
- why such a hard line for women? The scriptures say, what is most
precious and worthy of honor has to be safe guarded accordingly with
utmost care and love.
- Many good Gita Press books for Nari dharma
- standards are written mostly by male community and obviously are
- A husband that expects Pativrata must ensure that he is deserving
husband to Pativrata.
- there is no best way to treat the closest person with you
as 'God'. Simply speaking treat Him or Her as God.
- many similarities between Hubby and God !
- whom are we to promote pati? both can attain salvation worshiping
parmeshwar in each other. break free of the notion of Pati
Parmeshwar and attain salvation just by seeing Parmeshwar in all...!
- duties and rights of both are completely inter-changeable and must
be full of giving and serving rather than taking or expecting any
- maturation of a relationship where when there are no desires from
each other. In such a relationship one rises in love.
- In each of the married woman's roles there are certain duties and
responsibilities. she should not lose her self respect and deal with
situations with self-respect. If harassed, her parents must always
support her.

Ram Ram



Jai Hanuman

Advices which I gave to my daughters before marriage –

1. Never praise your parents ( us )before your in laws. We know how
to command respect and honor. We don't need you for that. If you
praise us , then some day you may have to hear criticism also.

2. Take particular care of the sisters of your husband. " JAAI SORI,
MAAI SORI" ( If daughter is happy, mother is happy) !

3. Don't react to any one's conduct vis a vis other. They might be
having their own reasons, old issues supporting the conduct.

4. Give your views if there is need. Do not insist. Never talk with
your in laws reg your husband. They know him better than you !

5. Never talk regarding your in laws with your husband ! He knows
them better than you.

6. Don't bother if they talk with your husband regarding you. They
are entitled to do that. He is their son/ brother !

7. Do whatever mother in law tells you. Don't reply back , even if
she is bit harsh/unreasonable! It takes two to fight.

8. Never talk leave aside complain about any one to your husband.
A lot of things loose significance of their own. Talking about them
only prevents their natural death.

9. You simply do your duty. Serve your in laws more than you served
us. There is no ego of yours vis a vis them. Because you are agent
of your husband before them. Serve them not as "your" Mother/
Father/Sister in law . Serve because they are mother/father/sister
of "your" husband. Act not in your independent capacity vis a vis
them, but as agent of your husband. Then nothing will hurt you.
Because you have not established any relationship of your own. All
relationships are due to relationship of your husband. ( Once you
are an agent, ego reduces drastically)

10. Respect everyone, but be "devoted" to only your husband.

11. If your husband talks about any of his relations, bad or good,
listen and ignore. Say – you are the best judge. Never add fuel to
the fire. If according to you he is wrong, say so with reasons.

12. Take particular care of children in your sasuraal. Spend money
on them. Love them really.

13. Never tell a lie to any one particularly to your husband- come
what may ! If you don't want to say – better boldly say " I don't
want to comment" than " I don't know" , if you really know. Either
keep mum or speak truth as a law. Truth prevails.

14. Never compare before any one your parents' house and your new

15. Be pro active in household work. Become happy if you are
required to do some more work on some day. Never hesitate in working
more. The body doesn't depreciate if you work more. It becomes
stronger. Feel happy if you have lightened someone else" work
load. " I will work, you take rest" – this should be the goal.

16. SELF RESPECT means respect of self by self not respect of self
by others. Doing one's duty diligently is real self respect.

Namaste Jee
Jee Jee

Hari Om

A genuine Q arises ! Whether in fact this "dharma" is the easiest
for a lady to follow? Well ! Answer is that nature/circumstances
definitely help.

Consider the followings:


1 When a girl leaves her parents' home upon her marriage, she never
demands foodgrains, tea, sugar, bread, butter etc from her parents.
She knows that her husband, that is taking her to his house will
arrange for her meals also. There is no doubt in her mind.
She "naturally" does not worry.


This worrilessness has also to be attribute of any sadhak who
surrenders under BG 18:66 ! One who surrenders should not worry how
he will be taken care of by the God ! But in that surrender, do
worries cease easily ? No !

Point proved: Surrender by wife is more natural/spontaneous/
worriless than the surrender under 18:66 ! Nature helps wife !


2 A wife NEVER forgets her husband- come what may ! Naturally ! Even
when she goes to her parents' home, but after sometime she says to
her mother - "I must go now. He must be experiencing difficulties
without home food".


A devotee (one who accepts I am of the God, only God is mine) is
supposed to never forget God. But is it that easy ? No ! Our
experience proves that !

Point proved : It is easier and natural for a lady to observe
pativrata dharma.

3 A newly wed lady "surrenders" everything- lock , stock and barrel.
Her home, her parents, her body, her "gotra", her caste (surname),
her dressing, her relations, her conduct, her existing living style,
her friends, everything in favour of her new home. Nothing is old.
Some hubbies affectionately change her name also. Nothing me,
everything you. SHE ACTUALLY DOES IT and LIVES WITH IT !

Similarly : A devotee is required to do that when he "surrenders" to
God. His conduct has to change. Nothing me, everything God.

Which one is easier?

Why aforesaid difference of easyness? Fact is that there are 2

1 Acceptance by self ( This a devotee "does" by pondering over - I
am of God. This is over, presumably. In case of wife it is automatic
and natural- I am married. A pativrata only has to slightly change
it- My God is my husband. This is pending and under debate !

2 Implementation of decision, acceptance , strengthening of the same.

Now this is difficult for a devotee. Quite natural and easy for a
wife ( Refer aforesaid 3 examples drawn from our direct experiences.
I can give dozens of such examples) ! Implementation under

What we are debating here is which course is easy. Both in
acceptance and implementation , wife stands superior and faster than
other devotee. Now she has option. " I am of God ( husband is not
God. I have duties towards him) " or "My husband is God" !

In both the cases she has to do same- Chop wood, carry water ! In
both the cases "egolessness" is mandatory !! Then why not consider
hubby as God? Does God not exist in him? Is it not a certified
independent method of God Realisation? Any shame in that? Any loss ?
Any impropriety? Any thing wrong?

What do you say, Dear Sadhaks?

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
When the husband expects that his wife should be Pativrata, he
should ensure that he is deserving husband to Pativrata, that he is a
`Patnivrat`..If the husband is neglecting the wife or illtreating
her, she should just neglect him and, if it comes to that , leave him
and look after her children.
The one sided Pativrata concept is the outcome of male dominated

Gee Waman

Hello Shalini,
Chastity comes from your inner soul. I remember once when a
nauch girl wanted to sing for swami vivekananda at a King's court
and he refused because he was a Sannyasi. She became upset with him
and sang a song of Lord Krishna. Her song brought him out and made
him regret his refusal.
Chastity is in the mind and soul, not on how one dresses or behaves.
If your mind and body and soul belong to your husband, then no
matter what anyone says your only guide should be to please your
husband. And only when he is dharmic. You should have the strength
of a savitri to follow him to naraka and bring him back, and also be
as protective as durga when it comes to duty. But mostly listen to
your heart and you won't go wrong. The little voice in your head
should be your best guide.
Your habits and Character would have been formed from birth by
your household. Do not give then up but also learn from your mum-in-
law because she knows your husband the best. And get protection from
your father-in-law if he is a fair man when it comes to keeping your
mum-in-law from bullying you.
One final suggestion for all these are but suggestions, I
remember once my mother's mother-in-law had made 3 chutneys for
three sons when they were going to work. My mother commented one is
enough and that she is spoiling her children. (Just newly married),
A decade later when my mother had two sons, me and my younger
brother, my father came home to find that she (my mother) had made
Chapati for me and Puri for my brother). Case in point.

Hope this helps some.
Hari Om.
The only way to explain the code and conduct of an indian woman is
Even today we have live telecast of Ramayana is to make us
follow the foot steps of Sita.
THe tolerance and toleration are the foundation of an indian
We should read Sundara Gandam now and then to develop such
divinely qualities.
Then comes the 13th chapter of Gita---It teaches what qualities
a man who follows krushna should have.
He clearly explains the imporance of SATHYAM,DHARMAM,SHANTHI AND
I THINK THAT EVERYWOMAN born as an indian should possess these
The next step is to follow the Bhagavadham where there are vital
points that we have to follow.
we should beg Krushna to bless us with such divinely qualities and
lead a contented life.
Every woman should keep reading such divinely writings to free
ourselves from lust,greed and filth.
We should be able to forgive others for their mistakes. This will
strenthen our relationship.
In india Marraige is a commitment and resposibility.
It is a bondage for the growth of a cultured family.
Its not possible to just advice as experience of each woman will
But we should respect and love the new family with whom our bondage
is initiated.
With regards,
Ushasridhar.(we should not just advice but practice it before
(Hope this would be published Krushna!!!!!)

My dandavat pranams to all in this forum,
With deepest respect, and appreciation, I would like to accept
that Vyasaji's concerns that in this age, a wife's service to her
husband should be considered extremely urgent, high level of service
to the Lord. (I pray my wording is correct, please advise if I have
phrased incorrectly)
I am asking for clarification, please. You mentioned that this
type of dharma is covered in Krsna's instructions in the Bhagavad
Gita. I know of only two verses, which I personally do not see as
referring to service to the husband as being bhakti, although
service to a Vaisnava (one who is absorbed in devotion himself) is
bhakti, regardless if that person is husband or not. So, service to
husband could be bhakti if the man is following a mood of service to
God, otherwise if he is not devoted to the Lord? (I will answer my
own question....if the wife is devoted enough, through her
association and prayer, it is possible, though not always happening,
that the man may be affected.......sometimes the women can end up
dead in the attempt, if he is a person who is prone to loosing
control of his emotions.)
The two verses I am familiar with in Gita are first: chapter 1
verse 40,
adharmabhibhavat krsna, pradusyanti kula-striyah
strisu dustasu varsneya, jayate varna-sankarah

"When irreligion is prominent in the family, O Krsna, the women of
the family become polluted, and from the degradation of womenhood, O
descendant of Vrsni, comes unwanted progeny."
In the explanation of this verse, by Srila A.C.Bhaktivedanta
Swami, it is said, "The varnasrama religions's principles were so
designed that the good population would prevail in society for the
general spiritual progress of state and community. Such population
depends on the chastity and faithfulness of its womanhood." also
mentioned, "On the failure of such varnasrama-dharma, naturally the
women become free to act and mix with men, and thus adultery is
indulged in at the risk of unwanted population. Irresponsible men
also provoke adultery in society, and thus unwanted children flood
the human race at the risk of war and pestilence."

These words of my guru are certainly very pertinent to today's
society.....there is always consideration of war by some of the
leaders just to keep down the animalistic population, many of whom,
due to their misfortune, were not wanted by their father, or their
mothers, or both. This is a heart breaking situation, there are
many perhaps reading this forum today who may be pained at the words
of Gita, as they may never have known their father, or their birth
mother. My heart cries for those in this condition, and I pray you
understand that I am not writing this to cause any grief. Please
forgive me, if my words are causing any pain.

But my point in bringing out these verses, apart from
appreciating that service to the husband and family is essential for
society to be functioning nicely, is that this verse does not
emphasise bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna, or Rama,
or however an individual would refer to him as.

The other verse I(I mentioned two verses from Gita that I am
familiar with) that mentions women, is in the tenth chapter, verse
34, where the Lord says, "Among women I am fame, fortune, fine
speech, memory, intelligence, steadfastness and patience."
Certainly, all these qualities enhance a marriage, and a women who
possesses them, but they do not in and of themselves constitute
devotion to God.

Please kindly give your understanding, from Gita, where
devotion to the husband is considered topmost. The last chapter
gives one verse, which is often quoted, perhaps misquoted, to
emphasize (in temple situations) that husbands should NOT be given

"man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, mad-yaji mam namaskuru,
mam evaisyasi satyam te, pratijane priyo 'si me

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your
homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise
you this because you are My very dear friend." well 18:66......
sarva-dharmam parityajya, mam ekam saranam vraja,
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo, moksasisyami ma sucah.....

"Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I
shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear."

next verse is also very pertinent, (18:67)
idam te natapaskaya, nabhaktaya kadacana,
na casusrusave vacyam, na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati.........
"This confidential knowledge may never be explained to those who are
not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to
one who is envious of Me."

So, for a women to stay with one man is certainly an
austerity. The newness of it wears off, the mood of service has to
be predominant, and thus the heart will become purified, when the
motive is to serve, and not to be the enjoyer.....but this is not
the only venue for women to serve in this day and age.
Respectfully submitted, Mahalaksmi Dasi


Hari Om

With due and really heartfelt respect to all my Sadhak Brethren, I
must state that from what I understood so far from the
deliberations, there are many wrong statements from many sadhaks
this time on this question. I give a correction list which of
course is open for deliberation .

1 Pativrata Dharma is not "servanthood" at all. It is a "bhava"
(inner expression duly certified by dozens and dozens of Holy
Scriptures - almost every Scripture and Every Saint- of Sanatan
Dharma. Servants are not called "Devis" / "mothers"/"Satis" /
Shaktis and are not remembered respected for aeons/ages !!. They are
ultimate powers / masters and never servants.

2 It is VERY VERY easy in Kaliyuga to observe this Dharma
than "practically impossible" ! I would agree if someone suggested
to me that for a female any other dharma(other than pativrata
dharma) in Kaliyuga was VERY VERY difficult, almost impossible. Any
other Dharma - I repeat - if she is married.

3 There is no need of a Raam on other side to bring out a Sita from
a female. Absolutely no need. Every female irrespective of how her
hubby is can conveniently observe this dharma.

4 It is a wrong statement to suggest that there is no reference of
this Dharma of in Holy Gita. All Dharmas are covered in merely 700
verse long Holy Gita. It is another matter that we do not understand
the "bhaavas" of Gita.

5 One's duty is always right of another ! Hence between the
duties/rights of husband and wife , there will be always dis-
similarity. There will always be clashes of ego. Winner is the one
who relinquishes ego. It is not that in any other sadhan
relinquishment of ego is not mandatory. FACT IS THAT IN ALL KNOWN
SADHANS "Egolessness" is mandatory.

6 Among the alternatives , even if they are in dozens, for a female
the observance of "Pativrata Dharma" is the easiest, fastest, best,
the most adored and the most respected . Kaliyuga or for that
purpose no other Yuga can ever be an obstacle to the same. On the
contrary, the Kaliyuga is the most ideal yuga for this "dharma" for
female and of course the easiest.

7 What can be a talk of similarilty between two life forms where one
is decidedly 1000 times superior to another? Non sense ! Females are
always superior to males. Unfortunately most of them do not
know/accept/believe that.

8 Not seeking reciprocation is not unique to this sadhana alone , it
is mandatory for every sadhana prescribed by every religion.

9 Scriptures like Gita are meant certainly for all genders!
True ! Then how on earth some one can claim that a particular
dharma is prescribed by males ? Isn't that a height of non sense?
Unbelievable !!

10. If Puranas, Vedas, Scriptures, Smritis, Holy texts like Gita or
Ramayana etc are respected - they are respected because they hold
true in all ages, all yugas, including present Kali Yuga.

11. Gita is meant for humanity at large for all castes, creeds,
colours etc Hence it is not surprising that all dharmas/disciplines
are covered by it but not specifically named.

12. Real reason behind resistance to this Dharma or argument beyond
logic in connection therewith - according to my personal humble view-
is not Kaliyuga or present times, but stupidity and incapacity /
unwillingness to observe "egolessness" . The supporters therefore
logically will not be able to accomplish any "saadhan"
as "egolessness" is mandatory everywhere !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Shree Hari

|| Ram Ram ||

Dear Shalini, thanks for a good question!

On this topic, believe, there is no direct reference in Gitaji but
in general, there is a related verse Gita (16-24):

tasmac chastram pramanam te
jnatva shastra-vidhanoktam
karma kartum iharhasi

"Therefore, let the scriptures be your authority in determining what
ought to be done and what ought not to be done. Knowing this, you
should act only on accordance with the sanction of scripture".

In Ramcharit Manas, there is a specific reference on this subject.
The "ideal of Women" comes in Aranyna Kandh (5/1-6), when Lord Rama,
Sitaji and Laxmanji visited Atri Rishi as they were leaving
Chiterkut. Atri Rishi's wife Ansuiyaji gives the instructions to

ansuiya ke pda gahi Sita, mili bahorri susila binita.
risipatni mana sukha adhikai, asisa dei nikata baithai (1)

dibya basana bhusana pahirae, je nita nutana amala suhae.
kaha risibadhu sarasa mridu bani, NARI-DHARMA kachu byaja bakhani (2)

matu pita bharta hitkari, mitaprada saba sunu rajakumari.
amita dani bharta bayadehi, adhama so nari jo seva na tehi (3)

dhiraja dharma mitra aru nari, apad kala parikhahi cari.
brddha rogabass jaRa dhanahina, amaha badhira krodhi ati dina (4)

aisehu pati kara kie apamana, nari pava jamapura dukha nana.
ekai dharma eka brata nama, kaya-bacana mana pada prema (5)

Jaga PATIBRATA cari bidhi ahahi, badapurna samta saba kahahi.
uttama ke asa base mana mahi, sapanehu ana purusa jag nahi (6)

Sunu sita tava nsama sumiri nari patibrata karahi
tohi pranapriya rama kahiu katha samsar hita (doha 5-B)

Then Sita, who was so good natured and modest, met Anusya and
clasped her feet. The seer's wife felt extremely pleased at heart;
she blessed her and seated her by her side. The she arrayed Sitaji
in heavenly robes and ornaments which remained ever new, clean and
charming. In affectionate and mild tones the holy woman then began
the discourse on wifely virtues, making Her an occasion for such
discourse" Listen, O' Princess: a mother, father and brother are all
kind to us; but they bestow only limited joy. A husband, however,
bestows unlimited joy (in the shape of blessedness), O Videha's
(Janaka, who had lost the consciousness of the body) daughter; vile
is the woman who refuses to serve him. Fortitude, piety, a friend
and a wife - these four are put to the test only in times of
adversity. A woman who treats her husband with disrespect - even
though he is old, sick, dull-headed, indigent, blind, deaf, wrathful
or most wretched - shall suffer various torments in hell (the abode
of Yama). Devotion of body, speech and mind to her husband's feet is
the only duty, sacred vow and penance of a woman. Thee are four
types of faithful wives in this world: so declares the Vedas, the
Puranas and all the saints. A woman of best type is convinced in her
heart of hearts that she cannot even dream in the world of a man
other than her husband.

O' Sita, women will maintain their vow of fidelity to their husband
by invoking your very name, Sri Rama being dear to you as your own
life. It is for the good of the world that I have spoken to you on
the subject."

Now the question might arise, why such a hard line for women? The
scriptures say, what is most precious and worthy of honor has to be
safe guarded accordingly with utmost care and love. I am assuming
that a standard must be there for men for their charter of duties

|| Ram Ram ||

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura

Hari Om

Let us straight away go to the fundamentals. All Scriptures sing
glories of Pativrata Dharma. A wife at the time of marriage itself
by nature and the very circumstances is ideally placed for the
role, hence it is very easy for her to get going. Next easier task
is a male's "Service to his parents" . Both are INDEPENDENT
does his duties (dharma)- as per all Scriptures and particularly as
per Holy Gita principles . But in case of male , his household
duties extend to a much higher scale and hence it becomes rather
difficult and more effortful to concentrate exclisively on his
parents. But for a female it is comparitively effortless and quite
easy to devote exclusively her "bhavas" (inner expressions) towards
her husband.

In both the cases , BG 7:19 (2nd part- Vasudev Sarvam) read with BG
4:11 ( first part "ye yatha maam prapyadante taanstatheva
bhajamyaham") and Principles of surrender BG 18:66 are basic verses.
In case of female, additionally BG 2:71 status of
being "egoless", "desireless" and "mamataless" is achieved faster.
(There may be many more verses of BG supporting her, but I have
picked these verses to explain her conduct.I will add more verses if
they occur to me. I shall be very happy if sadhaks discuss
additional supporting verses too of BG. I am sure there will be many
more. In fact all Gita readers can attempt this really good
exercise )

BG 7: 19 principle of "all this is God"- Vasudev Sarvam , allows
wife to see God in her husband. When all is God then there is
definitely God in husband also. Hence wife determines/accepts her
husband as God however or whatever he is- AS IT IS !

BG 4:11 says- However, the way devotees worship Me, so do I
respond/approach them.

Since wife sees her God in her husband, hence God manifests to her
on account of her worship to her husband only.

Then comes the principles of surrender under 18:66. Here the wife
has only one dharma - the service/shelter of her husband. Her
husband is God for her and hence her surrender to husband is
surrender to God. There is no need for her then to observe any other
divine karmas like fasting, meditation, holy dips, worships,
charities etc etc. Only one rule, one task, one duty ! Here the
natural circumstances additionally help wife. The principles come
very very handy/ naturally to her. Also come very handy/naturally to
her the requirements of getting peace/liberation under BG 2:71 !

Hence she gets liberated in only one life time easily.

I may add here that in my view it( Pativrata dharma) is only an
option, a really powerful option, not a compulsion for a female. She
may like Mira Bai decide to see God in Krishna and not link her
devotion to her husband exclusively. But then there may be a
difference between "devotion" and "duties". There too she has to
consider husband as God's representative and do same "chop wood and
carry water" but with a different "bhava" .. Here she sees husband
as God and seeks God in husband only. Hence the option of pativrata
dharma is a preferable one though not a compulsion. There is not a
remotest clash here.

In next posting we shall discuss, how quite naturally, easily and
without even knowing , an ideal wife by her conduct/duties starts
meeting with the standards / requirements of the aforesaid Gita
verses- once she accepts her husband as God on AS IS WHERE IS BASIS.

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B

Both the question and the responses by sadhaks are educative and
naturally interesting to all of us. I request Brother Vyasji to
specifically tell as to whether suggestion of Sadhanaji to be
primarily of God ( not husband) and then doing duty is permitted as
per Scriptures and if so, which alternative is better and why. Which
is easier? A slightly detailed observations regarding the pro and
cons of both alternatives will help . Pls also address common
feeling that half of husband's punyas get transferred to wife and
half of wife's sins get transferred to husband. Is it correct?

Asha Verma

"Both the Pati (in vrata) with wife" is the complete seNse in
PATIVRATA. With Rama-Sita was a Pativrata.

Numerous wives were unfortunate. They didn't qualify like Sita
corrected Rama at times; Draupadi as well. Dakshayini did not return
home when she was responsible for her husband Siva's humiliation in
her parents' home. E.g. Ahalya, Tara and Mandodari instead of no
equal Pati to march who had a Vrata, are still counted among the
pativratas who were actually Sativratas. i.e. they had a Vrata of
Sati; With Dashratha, Kaikeyi was neither a pativrata nor a
sativrata; that' all.
Dr Shastry
Dear Shaliniji,
Please refer Mahabharata (VanaParva)where Krushna with Satyabhama
visited the Pandavas first time after DyutaKrida. Satyabhama asked
Draupadi how she is controlling all Pandavas. Panchali replies that
by following Pativrata Dharma,& she explained the same to
Satyabhama. Please read those carefully. It is practically
impossible to follow in todays life. My personnel opinion is that
even Panchali have not followed it according to Mahabharata.
According to Vyas - Dharma is Sadachara & you should stick on it.

jay Shrikrushna
Anand Joshi
Dear All,

gitapress has very good books at throw away prices in different
languages. you can go through them. Like -
Bhartiya Sanskriti shastron mein nari dharm
Adarsh Nari Sushila
Nari Shiksha
Bhakta Nari
Nari Dharma
Nari Ank

hope your queries regarding chastity, ideal wife, women dharma and
goal of womens life can be realised by reading them.

kalrav pande
Dear Sadhika Shaliniji

Since you have contacted Gita Talk forum, to the extent I read Gita,
Gita has specified various yoga methods for peaceful life management
and they are applicable to all human beings - by mentioning the
word 'yah' (whoever). No distinction made between the sexes or
castes or religions even.

I respect female to my heart and consider them higher in their role
of reproduction and upbringing. If you find any word in my response
offensive, that may be due to my wrong choice of word but not the

If you are charmed by the respect shown for 'Pativrata', please take
the spirit. The standards are written mostly by male community and
obviously are biased. Husband and wife should have same standards to
each other - Pativrata and Sativrata. Going extra mile always helps
your partner, but not to the extent you lose your freedom to pray
God / stand for justice and stand for what you think is right.

Like many wise people mentioned in this post, you may consider God
as your priority for liberation and definitely husband and wife can
combinedly make it more practicable if they are able to see God in
each other to begin with.

Finally you are the judge and so use your judgement. God bless you
and your marriage.

Venu Komanduri
Venuji, please post your other question as a separate TOPIC. thank
you, Ram Ram


Dear Sadhika,
Chaste wife is one who considers all other men as her brothers,
friends or sons. But chastity is just one condition of being a
1. what are the standards of one being a Pativrata wife?
Accepting "husband" as he is, and serving him through words, deeds
and thoughts is considered the Patni Dharma(wife's duties). One who
follow patnidharma rigorously is called pativrita.
2.How does she conduct herself?
She acts according to her husband's desire. She is the most
obedient, humble servant of her husband.
3.How does her conduct impact her home?
No ego clashes.
4.How does she get emancipated from this worldly ocean merely
because she is Pativrata?
Its not "merely". This is a path of complete surrender, where wife
has no ego, no desire, no wishes of her own at all. This is a kind
of "tapa". Nothig is for the wife, everything is for the husband
only. She considers husband superior to God. It is kind of bhakti
yoga, where the wife accepts her husband as God.

Do you think you are ready to be a pativrita ? I would say that
accept Krishna as your God instead of accepting a human form
(husband) as yr God. Just accept firmly -Only God is mine, and I am
God's.This whole world is God's, so serve the world including yr
husband and in laws according to Gita's principles without expecting
anything.Bring Love, care and happiness in yr family by serving
egolessly, considering everyone as God's.
Read Gita and apply its principle in daily life and you will be fine.
with best wishes and Love,
a sadhika
Sadhna Karigar

Hari Om

It is not at all surprising to find a lot of responses to this
question. However as I see majority of the responses insist
for "ideal combination". That is against the very concept, very
theme, very reality of marital life. "Marriages are made in
heaven" . Marriages are destiny for the couple- only factor
functioning is "prior contractual obligations". Otherwise how can
two souls who were so strangers sometime back get so close that
later on the beard on the face of male becomes only the distinction
between two souls.

A pativrata wife doesnot seek any reciprocation from her husband.
She is focussed on her and her duty alone. She becomes the shadow of
her husband. Nothing explains more clearly the principles
of "surrender" to a sadhak than the conduct of an ideal wife. The
more stubborn a husband is, more shine comes in the role of wife.
Hence let the discussion not insist on "bilateral" conduct.
It is easy to lay down conditions for an ideal marital life. How
wife should be and how husband should be. Question here is how a
wife should be- irrespective of how a husband is- Raam, Raavana,
Dhritrashtra, whatever or however he is.

Hence let us talk of the wife alone. She gets Realisation. She gets
emancipation. She gets rewarded by Paramatma and His Divine laws and
principles. She gets highest respect ultimately from all quarters .

Look at the end result:

In the home of a pativrata wife, there is always peace. There is a
power emanating from the very presence of the lady- such a power
that even an evil thought can not come in the mind of other person
in her presence. She is Queen of the House. She is "Grihalaxmi" !
She is "Annapurna" (Feeder) !! She is power in herself. She
is "Shakti". Her children are always obedient. She gets universally
respected . Even the air which touches her body becomes pure enough
to purify others. There is a special aura around her. She is the
ultimate Lady !

We shall discuss next the principles governing her conduct.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
My humble respects to all in this forum.
I have just a little thought to offer here.....that isn't
always understood unitl a woman has gone through a lot of
experiences. If any individual, (man or woamn) wants to be happy in
a relationship, the key is to being satisfied within one's own
self. As much as we are thinking that the clue to our happiness
comes from the other person, we will be unhappy. Within our
hearts, each and every one of us, is the Supreme Lord. Unless He is
remembered, glorified, served, etc, as well as the husband, (or vice
versa, for the man) how can the living entity feel satisifed?
Certainly, executing dharma of a wife is essential, it is part of
being a cultured human being. It is however, secondary to
relationship with the original husband of all, Sri Krsna. When we
know in our hearts (or we should know) that He is foremost, and our
relationship with Him will not end, there is a deeper confidence
that no one can take away. Without this confidence, we with always
be looking for approval and confirmation from persons in this out! We will lose ourself if this becomes our
focus. Do not give up your devotion to God, even if your married
life demands all your time. It is not truly our time.....not being
able to pamper ourselves, to knit, crochet, to read our favorite
books, or go to the gym, hairdresser, etc. may all be sacrificed,
but if a wife sacrifices her time to give bhajan to her relationship
with the Lord, then there will be no peace. That is my the wife of Ramachandra Dasa.

gurudeve, vraja-vane, vraja bhumi vasi jane,
suddha bhakte, ara vipra gane, istha mantre, hari name, yugala
bhajana kame,
kara ratri apurva yatane, dari mana charane tomara,
jani yache ebe sara, krsna bhakti vina ara, nahi guche jivera
karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karma bhoga,
karma chadaite keha nare,
sakala chadiya bal, sraddha devira guna gal,
yanra krpa bhakti dite pare
chadi damba anuksana, smara asta tattva mana
tara kahe niskapati rati

sei rati pratanaya, sri dasa gosvami pai, ei bhaktivinoda kare nati
Only one verse of the translation remains solidified in my
consciousness....."karma, jnana, tapa, yoga, sakalai ta karm
bhoga".....which means that all these processes, of karma, jnana,
yoga....are actually cheating. They do NOT in and of themselves
produce bhakti, devotion to the Supreme Lord. My humble prayer, oh
newly wedded bride, or bridegroom, never forget that sadhu sanga,
for the man or the woman, will keep our consciousness balanced. If
the woman is more of a sadhu than the man, no harm, she will happily
give her association, with humility, love and affection. If the man
is more of a a sadhu than the wife, no harm, excellent.... it is
certainly much more natural for the wife to be feeling subordinate
to the male....BUT EITHER WAY......respect always the need to see
one another as saintly persons, and search always for high minded

respectfully submitted,
Mahalaksmi Dasi
Dear sadaks,
Pathivratha is a chance to get liberated from being born again. Only
woman has this chance Not Men. Woman` s all karmas, gets dispelled
by Pathi Vartha Dharma though her husband may be bad. Such woman
need NOT do any pooja, sadhana etc says the script Pathivratha
Dharma. In the line of scripts on Dharma, there is husband
(Householder) Dharma, Guru Dharma, Pthiru Dharma, Prayachita Dharma,
Manu neethi sastra Etc. In Sri Rama Pravabam it is said that Man` s
sins does not affect his wife. But wife sins DOES affect husband. It
is a gift God gives to be a woman. When used totally dedicated
towards husband, her Jalma completes. That is why Pathivarthas I
mentioned earlier had extrodinary powers. Why not men teach these
Dharmas to their sisters before giving away in marriage?
By nature woman body is designed with Karuna, Daya and ability to
bear children Etc. Man is generally agressive, workholic, egoistic,
Etc. But if his child shows eminence, man will say it is MY son. On
contrary child is inefficient, he will abuse his wife, saying "Look
at your son" . Mostly woman are supressed by men. Otherwise they
have wonderful qualities.
May be some woman are not.
Jai Sri Krishna
baiya sathyanarayan


There could be millions of questions.....
The answer is one.......Know yourself.....
You have all the answers......

Let us purify our true self and everything will be clear.....
the body is for creation, full expression, celebration......

Sushil Jain
Hari Om

A good question indeed! At the outset pls note whether the other
party is Raam or Raavan , it doesn't make any difference to Sita or
Mandodari- both were great ideal wives. Ideal wife is not dependent
on there being Raam on the other side. Pativrata Dharma is not
dependent upon husband's conduct- not at all. For that purpose no
duty of a human being seeks a reciprocation from other side.
Moderators can confidently amend the summary of responses to that

Once Sethji Jaidayalji Goenka said to Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj
(both were very close- Swamiji gave very high regard to Sethji- in
fact Sethji was role model for Swamiji- both ultimately realised
Parmatma in one life time )-

If God wants to give me birth again then I would like to get born
as a female. Because in that life form IT IS VERY EASY TO REALISE
GOD !! There are no tedious Yogas etc to be performed.

That Realisation / Emancipation comes to a female merely by looking
God in her husband. As simple as that. You need to do nothing else.
No fastings, no duties, no karmas, no rituals, no austerities.
Nothing except "becoming of her husband by mind, speech and body" !

Pativrata Dharma is a special short cut given to a female. It is a
special concession by God to a female. It is very easy, very
respectable, very very beneficial, very powerful and very certain.
If husband luckily is "hard/tough nut" then very very fast also.

Simple rule is:

Tumhi mere mandir, tumhi meri pooja , tumhi devata ho!

Only Hubby is my temple, only He is my worship and only He is my God.

There are great principles involved in this short cut for women. On
the roots there are reasons why it is so easy or so successful. I
don't see much difference between principles involved in "surrender"
under BG 18:66 and a lady deciding to follow pativrata dharma .

To be contd

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

Swamiji focused more on vivek i.e. we are not this body and we
belong to Paramatma.

If your husband is good then you will be more happier by serving and
pleasing him. That is duty of pativrita.

But unfortunately, most people in this Kali yug are fallen. They try
to use their position to exploit others.

Remember at all times --

tvameya mata ca pita tvameva

Accept Krishna/Ram as everything. Surrender unto Paramatma and do
your duty. Consider Ram/Krishna as your husband, mother father etc.

It is better to stand up and not let people take advantage of you.

Best wishes for your marriage.
Gaurav Mittal

In my earlier comment i had given the prescription of the advice
given by Draupadi to Rukmini . Draupadi is one of the ideal Indian
womanhood, Sati, along with Gandhari , Savitri , Damayanti ,
Maitreyi , Gargi , Arundhuti , Kunti, Sita, Shakuntala, Khana and
many others.

To my mind it is most essential to ensure the compatibility of the
husband and wife . For that , proper match in the level of level of
education , intellect , knowledge and wisdom , cultural , moral ,
etiquette , likes and dislikes , values and some such personal
qualities are essential prerequisites . Matching family background ,
financial , educational , moral and ethical of the husband and wife's
family , is also a requirement . In the marriage there should not be
any sort of 'dowry' , directly or indirectly, all the expenses of the
marriage shall have to be balanced . Girls family must not have to
incur more expenses than the boy's family as that are of girl's
family ; the groom may have to share fully or partially, similarly
the bride also , if she is employed.Show off in the marriage to be
restricted .Girl must not be denied the rights of her lawful
inheritance rights from her parents since she has been married off .
Girl shall never be blamed if the couple do not have a male child .
Dowry , in any form post marriage must be stopped.

The boy's family must accept the girl as the daughter of the boy's
family , and vice verse for the boy , the boy must be accepted in
the girl's family as their son. Absolute sense of equality ,
equanimity , unconditional love , compassion , giving , caring ,
sharing , laughter , joy ,smile , patience , perseverance , sense
of happiness and bliss must be the ambient condition.

With these existential ambiance , it is absolutely necessary for the
girl to be " patibrata" and the boy must also be " patnibrata" in the
same vein. As per social sysem , daughters are to live in the
husband's home , and take husband's title , but that shall never mean
the the girl is inferior to the boy and the reverse thing is not
socially acceptable. Boy must try to stay with his parent's home if
he works around and if there is not a extremely difficult problem in
that.The boy has to face tremendous problem to balance the love and
attention his his mother and his wife. Here both the wife and mother
must have a large kind heart to appreciate with a sense of unbounded

On the issue of 'patibrata' vis - a - vi , the girl must be a
willing partner in husband's sexual desires and both must be
thoroughly understanding and sharing of each others physical,
mental / psychological needs. Self gratification in sex life is
utterly wrong, instead unconditional love , caring , sharing ,
laughter and smile must be a hall mark in their relationship. No
problem on earth is more important to sacrifice these essential

The girl must take husband's father as her own father , mother as
her own mother , brothers , sisters and other relatives as her own
and so is a must for the boy. The girl's family must never meddle in
the girl's husband or family unless it becomes a requirement in a
negative situation , but never when things are going beautifully all
right in the name of showing love to their daughter.

Girl must take up unconditionally the household chores in the spirit
of giving , even if she may be a working woman and the boy also share
unconditionally and if he does not know , he must learn , along with
the boy's mother and father , to the maximum extent possible. Girl
must understand , her mother - in - law has become aged and she is
young and if she can give some relief to her mother - in law , what
is that a big deal ?

She must very sacrificially look after the needs of the husband's
parents and other relations . Having said this , the recipients here
must not , I repeat must not demand , as a right to get all the
services the girl desires to do voluntarily and care and share to the
maximum extent they will be able to share with the sense of
gratitude and love.

Every good and sustaining relationship must be based on " giving
unconditionally without any expectation of return". This is very
hard task but extremely fruitful proposition because the gains in
such acts will be manifold which is beyond imagination.

The girl after marriage may be incapacitated due to some debility ,
may not be take up her chores , may be be able to sexual
gratification to her husband , they the boy must give the same level
of love , take up the chores , duties and responsibilities of the
girl and must not seek another woman for sexual gratification .
similarly , if the boy loses the capacity for earning , becomes
incapacitated due to illness or sexually , the girl must strive her
maximum to honourably earn livelihood and must need seek sexual
gratification outside.

Regarding in law relations , there must be an unbounded love and

Unconditional love , caring , sharing without any expectations are
the basic tenets of any relationship. God , whatever , definition ,
meaning and concepts , human beings have been able to creat in the
God , 'unconditional love' is the only definition of " GOD".
Trillions of cell function in the spirit of sharing , unconditional
love.Be 'gluon' to 'quark' , be in ' transcendental samadhi in the
vision of ' dance of Shiva'

rathindra prasad lahiri
KINDLY BE CONCISE! Also in future include if from scriptures / any
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

You are talking about chaste woman..Pativrata..but are you sure that
pati himself is as chaste as woman is expected to be?

Under guise of holy Gita, this appears to be a male oriented, male
dominated conversation expecting woman to be pativrata and not pati
to be chaste!!

Ramesh. M. Jhalla
Dear sadaks,
Chaste is the quality of a lady who is very rare. Pathivirtha means
a lady who has taken her husband as Vartham (Yogam). A lady who does
anything for her husband blindly, obeys her husband blindly, takes
total care of her husband is known as Pathivartha. Such lady powers:
1) The Tulsi plant with we all know is a lady who was so. But her
husband was bad.
Even Sri Vishnu could not defeat that man. Sri Vishnu in disguise as
her husband could remove her powers thereby killed that Rakshas. But
the lady cursed Sri Vishnu to become stone as Sri Vishnu act was
stone hearted. So Sri Vishnu became Salagram which is very
auspisious. The lady became Tulsi by the boon of Vishnu. 2) Another
lady could stop rotation of earth. 3) Another lady could make
Thrimoorthy (Bharama, Vishnu and Shiva) a infants. 4) Another lady
could resist any curse by great saint Konkanar. 5) Duryodhan mother
cursed Sri Krishna that HIS decendants be destroyed- and it
happened. 6) Lady Savitri could cheat Yama (Demi God of death) and
bring back her husbands life.
In Astrology it is said if a lady is chaste, her husband has long
life. Normally such ladies to certain extent are there even today.
They have the power to foresee things, to predict things that will
happen, and also can prevent her husband from troubles. There is one
such lady I closely know.

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Having taken male body, its little odd to advise on being "chaste
wife", but as sister or daughter about to be married I can tell few
things that may help.
We are human being first, so as human being let us be humble, loving
and caring in general. Nice man or woman only can become chaste man
or wife.
If its a joint family scenario, then become(act like) daughter so
others feel comfortable around you so at least one less complain.
It should not be a burden to become "chaste wife", rather natural.
How? Think of marriage as relationship between man and wife to
fulfil natural and God ordained instincts for healthy progeny, and
therefore sacred. Having entered the relationship, one makes the
other complete by offering everything one is given, body, mind and
The most important element of orderly functioning of any society is
being chaste. Remember, attractions on physical level fades away fso
fast, and conflicts will dominate relationship affecting you two and
families on both sides. One may not realize the cause being physical
problems or boredom or blame game played by both.
So it is better to have lower or down to earth expectations right
from the beginning. You are there to give at all levels and in the
process accept whatever comes your way(Gita).
When this happens, just weather the storm and you will be glad you
Physical aspect is but one aspect and there are so many beautiful
aspects such as friendship, love, freedom and the mutual feeling "my
spouse loves me the most"!
I live by one mantra that helps me all these years in married life,
specially in adverse situations, if at all they arise. "You cannot
get a better spouse than the spouse you have now". It may seem very
hard sometimes, specially in early years, when tempers run high, and
anger takes over to think this mantra. At this time remind yourself
again and again of the above mantra. This time shall pass also, just
As husbands we can always help wives to be chaste by being chaste
Communication is another important tool. Talk things over by
overcoming "I am not going to talk to you now" feelings.
Care for others in the family so the husband feels relieved as he
may be duty bound to care for parents, unmarried siblings etc etc.
Love them so much so that they will not be able to live without you.
Lastly, remember whatever be the problem ultimately it is your Love
for one another that will pull you out from the perceived dump!
Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt

Lot of benefits.

(1) You will be automatically following the rulings of the
(2) Your hubby will be one of the happiest men on the earth.
(3) Your children will be proud of you and themselves, besides they
will grow up
like healthy kids.
(4) The family will remain organised.
(5) Biological benefits, such as no danger of AIDS etc.
(6) A real sense of 'satisfaction'
(7) You will be a source of 'satvik fragrance' in the society.
(8) You will become a 'happiness generating unit' of the Supreme

And, if by Lord Krishna's grace, your would-be husband is also of
the similar coviction, then both of you will be adding a cementing
factor in the prevailing disgusting environment of 'family

The world needs such relationship between husband and wife, if we
have to save the mankind from further degeneration into disorganised
psychic individuals suffering divorce, barren living-in
relationship, family-disoriented children etc.

Besides, you will be a respected person in the eyes of all.

Suresh C Sharma
Dear Shalini,

Lovely question. Recently I had the opportunity to listen to the
Bhagavatham and the story of Devahuthi and Kardama was being told.
The speaker extolled the virtue of a dharmapatni- one who walks the
path of dharma along with the husband. The wife ensures that the
husband walks the path of dharma! Anyways when Kardama asks
devahuthi what she wants for all the years of seva she has
done for him without a single thought for herself, she is surprised
that he even asked her such a question! She says that her very seva
brought total fulfillment that she could not think of anything to
ask for! The Bhagavatham went on to explain how when a
woman "demands" to be "paid" for her services as a "wife" she
ceases to be one and becomes a "vaisha". Janaka tells Rama that Sita
is his sahadharmachari.

Before I got married, my grandma presented me with a book on wedding
vows. It is interesting to note the use of the word sakhi for wife
during the course of taking the vows- not "patni"- but beloved
friend. In this beautiful path of friendship, trust is the
cornerstone. And it is a two way street. The goal of the sacrament
of marriage is for both to walk the spiritual path together. The
"walking" of the path of life together makes the journey joyful. The
focus is on the "divine".

Yes, part of making the commitment of marriage is "chastity"- of
being in a monogamous relationship. This brings social structure
much needed for healthy progeny- for the long term welfare of family
and state.

All the very best and blessings to you and your fiance.

Meenakshi Srinivasan

I think this question is asked by Shalini Bhardvaja. Such quqlities
of the girl can be evaluated by asking her questions when you chat
with her. Mostly we can judge from the family she inherits. No body
can predicted whether she is loyal or not. Sometimes some people try
to match their horoscopes. Before marriage there are many meetings
and at that time by asking questions we can judge the other party
In this connections we have to rely on our luck and the religous
ceremony done during the marriage.
If you keep her with love, loyalty and compassion then there will
not be any barrier in your life.
My best wishes to you both
If you want to read a book written by Utsala on Ideal marriage
Please inquire into Inner Traditions publication written by a south
India Girl who married with the President of Inner Traditions
Truly yours
Shankerprasad S Bhatt
Dear shalini,
As some one has advised, in India it is one who who has sex only
with her husband. To my knowledge even a president of India who
knowledge of our ancient Hindu philosophy was extraordinary and
great had an affair with another lady but his wife just stopped
sleeping in the same bed and also never talked to him for nearly 30
What i want to say is we are all humans and we can err. This
chastity business is something which every religion including
Christianity,Islam imposes on women only and i think it is UNFAIR. It
is upto you as human to decide.

captain Johann samuhanand



In Kaliyuga, senses and indriyas are in a shithil state. weak state.
So in todays time chaste wife is one who does not copulate any man
other than her husband.

Being obedient, serving your husband, treating any other man as
father/brother, standing strong in odd-good bad times without
breaking relation is enough.

Try as many of these points as you can. Books on Naari dharma are
available in market.

blessing yours
kalrav pande

On being a chaste Wife
My feeling on this issue, Draupadi appears to be most ideal as per
our scriptures.The advise given by Draupadi to Rukmini, Sri
Krishna's wife on this particular issue when asked for , is most
rathindra prasad lahiri
Sita is an example
Provided there is Ram on other side
Dinesh Patel

1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..
3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the
extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.
5. Focus on subject at hand only.
6. Do not include links to the other sites.
7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).
8. Do not personalize message
9. All responses may not be posted.
10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.
11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-
sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.
Provide English word bracketed.

Ram Ram
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