Friday, October 31, 2008

[gita-talk] Re: Diwali Wishes - from Sadhaks

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

This is the final posting of Diwali messages - GT Moderators
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhaks

Jai shree krishna

Wishing you all a happy deepwali and prosperous new year.

Regards

M. M. Purohit
----------------------------------------------------------
Please let me wish all of us a
Very happy and prosperous Diwali.
Barin Chatterjee
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the Deepavali greetings and we wish you the same.

Regards

Arya Samaj Fort
----------------------------------------------------------
The term originally was Deepavali- a collection of lamps around,
Deepem Aavali, which corrupted during the Centuries to Diwali which
has no meaning as such.
kesava pillai
----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Shri Krishna,

Warm wishes to all the Sadhaks on this holy festival of lights and a
very happy new year.

Narayan Narayan

Rajendra J Bohra
----------------------------------------------------------
SPECIAL MESSAGE

On this auspicious occassion, come, let us rededicate ourselves
towards
spreading peace & conservation ... reading online & saving trees

...

SIGNIFICANCE OF DIWALI
Diwali festival is a 5 day Hindu festival in India which occurs on
the fifteenth day of Kartika. Diwali when translated means "rows of
lighted lamps" and the occasion is also referred to as the Festival
of Lights. During Diwali, Indian homes are cleaned and windows are
opened to welcome Lakshmi, the goddess of wealth. Lamps, lights and
candles are lit as a greeting to Goddess Laksmi. Gifts are exchanged
and sweets, festive meals are prepared during Diwali. Because there
are many castes and regions in India, there are myriad
manifestations of the Diwali festival In some places, the festival
begins with Dhanteras, a day set aside to worship Laksmi. In the
Indian culture, wealth is not viewed as a corruptive power. Instead,
a wealthy person is considered to have been rewarded for good deeds
of a past life, i.e karma. On the second day of the festival, Kali,
the goddess of Strength, is worshipped on the third day ( the last
day of the year in the lunar calendar), lamps are lit and shine
brightly in homes. The lamp symbolizes knowledge.The fourth day of
Diwali falls on the first day of the lunar New Year. At this time,
old business accounts are settled and new books are opened. The
books are worshiped in a special ceremony by Indian priests and
participants are encouraged to remove anger, hate, and jealousy from
their lives. On the last day (Balipratipada) of the festival, Bali,
an ancient Indian king, is recalled and remembered. Bali destroyed
the centuries old philosophies of the society. However, in addition
to this, he is remembered for being a generous and kind person.
Hence, the significance of this day is to see the good in others,
including enemies. The Jain communities of India celebrate Diwali as
a New Year's Day. Lord Mahavira, the founder of Jainism, attained
his Nirvana on the day of Diwali. Sikhs celebrate Diwali to express
joy at the return of the sixth Guru to Amritsar in 1620; Emperor
Jahangir had imprisoned him along with 52 Hindu kings. The Guru was
granted freedom but refused to leave until the kings were also
released. Diwali is by far the most enthusiastically enjoyed
festival in India. People of different nationalities, races,
religions and backgrounds come together to share their joys
generating a feeling of universal brotherhood and inter-religious
harmony.
Balmukund Bhala
----------------------------------------------------------
Wish you All a Very Happy Deepawli...
Jai Sri Ram...
kuldip Suri
----------------------------------------------------------
Jay Shri Krishnam
I am grateful for the blessings of God.
Shridhar Pant

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Indian Friends

Happy Diwali with core of heart

With prayers
Hameedullah

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Madanji,
Deepawali greetings from me. Yes life is nothing but a DIYA OF
LIGHT. May this Deepawali help you to enlighten yourself to have a
glimps of ATMA.
Shridhar Pant

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTINGS
Ram-Ram,

Sabhi Sadhakon ko meri taraf sr Diwali ki hardik subh-kaamnayen.Aap
sabhi prabhu-kripa ke paatra ho,jo unse prapt anukampa ko auron ko
bhi vitrit karne ki bhavanaa rakhate ho.

Today while listening Swamiji's pravachan of 6th Jan 1991 (Bandhan
kya hai),a sadhak didn't understood what swamiji wanted to say but
instead of saying so,Swamiji said, 'I didn't understood fully'. He
not only lectures on Gita,he teaches us, how to live and behave with
others.Later Swamiji clarified that instead of saying "you didn't
understand.Its better to say, I didn't understand.Really Swamiji's
lectures are filled with gems.In the same lecture he explained about
bondage "bandhan" very effectively.

Ashok Goenka

---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Respected Kauraji,
Grateful thanks for your kind Diwali greetings which I very
warmly reciprocate .

Regards,
N Bhashyam

---------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari

Diwali Ki Shubh Kamanayee
May God Bless You With
Love as deep as the ocean
Friends as solid as diamonds
Success as bright as gold

HAPPY DIWALI

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura
----------------------------------------------------------

Happy Diwali to All the sadhaks,

May all our ignorance born of darkness be destroyed and lit with the
light of wisdom.

Lord Krishna says
'With their minds fixed on Me, with their lives surrendered to Me,
enlightening each other about My excellence and greatness and ever
speaking of Me, they always remain contented and delightful with Me.
In order to bestow My grace upon them, I, dwelling in their self,
destroy their darkness, born of ignorance, by the luminous lamp of
wisdom." (Gita 10.10-11)

O Lord, you are running with that lamp around, but we never look at
you.

When describing your vibhutis, You said
"I am the radiant sun among the luminaries" (Gita 10.21)

'The radiance in the sun that illumines the entire universe, and
that which shines in the moon and that which shines in the fire too,
know that radiance to be Mine.' (Gita 15.12)

Seeing your cosmic form Sanjaya said
"If there be the effulgence of a thousand suns bursting forth all at
once in the heavens, even that would hardly approach the splendor of
the Mighty Lord." (Gita 11.12)

and Arjuna said
"I see you endowed with a diadem, club and discus, a mass of
splendor glowing all round, having the brilliance of blazing fire
and sun, had to gaze at and immeasurable on all sides." (Gita 11.17)

'I see You without beginning, middle or end, possessing unlimited
prowess and endowed with number less arms, having the Sun and moon
for your eyes, and blazing fire of your mouth, and scorching this
universe by your radiance. (Gita 11.19)

O Lord, you revealed your cosmic form in 10th and 11th chapter so
that wherever we find any radiance, brilliance, the mind may only
think of You. You said
"Every being such as is glorious, brilliant and powerful, know that
to be a part manifestation of My glory?" (Gita 10.41)
You know that if this human will consider that brilliance of this
world then he will get tied down and will ruin himself. So to save
him from the traps of this world and invite to your abode you are
making so many efforts. About Your abode You have said
"Neither the sun nor the moon nor fire can illuminate that supreme
self-effulgent state, attaining which they never return to this
world; that is My Supreme Abode" (Gita 15.6)
O Lord shower your grace in such a manner, that we might never ever
forget you. We might never ever forget you.

Hare Krishna
Varun P. Paprunia

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Members,

Wish you all a very happy and prosperous Deepawali. May the spirit
of this festival brighten up everyone's life and bring us peace.
Regards,
Alice Lakra
----------------------------------------------------------
Happy Diwali and wishing you all the best!

Yours Sincerely,
Krishna and Bhishma Agnihotri
----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Sai Ram

Today is Diwali. Wishing all devotees Happy Diwali.

Ashok Gupta

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Stricktly speaking Depaavalli has been seen over so many years and
were is the charm in it. We are growing loder day by day. Our real
Deepavalli comes only once the Bagavan slays our 6 bad gunas and
gives us HIS glimpse of Sri Krishna Roop.
Dear Sadaks, I was with my mother and father (Sri Krishna & Sri
Rukmani) on Deepavalli day at Guruvayur and Mammiyur sheding my
tears to give me HIS darshan. I am blessed with wealth and health,
but this is temporary and does not give me that joy of seeing
Guruvayur Appan or Pandarinathan or Padmanaban. In Guruvayur ONLY
sadaks can enter Vaikunta Doors all 364 days with Maha Vishnu lying
posture with mother Mahalakshma at HIS feet, with great saint
sanding below.
B.Sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Wish you all a very spiritually uplifting Diwali. May the Light of
all Lights continue to illume us at all times. We are deeply
grateful that with the blessings of our sweet Swamiji, we are able
to engage in this divine satsang, learning, sharing, growing, and
uplifting each other. This would not be possible, without each and
every one of you ! Rather it was ordained for each and every one of
us to be in this together.
Thank you !

Gita Talk Moderators

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Jay Shree Krishna

In English
Wishing all Sadhaks a very auspicious and Happy Diwali. I am not
saying that in your life there is happiness etc. however, my prayers
to Prabhu are that whatever situations come in all the sadhak's
lives, make that alone your spiritual means, and consider that alone
Prabhu's auspicious and divine act that is ordained for you,
consider it as Prabhu's gift (offering). Swamiji Maharaj's messages
of truth, may these be applied in your life at the right moment in
time. Additionally, in your life you experience "For Ever Diwali,
where there is nothing but Bliss and Joy 24X7" (round the clock).
May that become your own experience and realization, and may it
become your life.... This I pray at the lotus feet of Prabhu.

Jay Shree Krishna
Rameshji

In Hindi
Sabhi Sadhako ko Deepawali ki Shub-kamana.Mai Aapko yah nahi kahata
ki Aap ke jivan me sukh,samriddhi aave....etc.,lekin prabhu se yahi
prarthana karta hu ki Sabhi sadhako ke jivan me jo bhi paristhiti
aave,usiko Aapna sadhan banale,usiko Prabhu ka mangalmay vidhan
samajkar , prabhu -prasad samajkar .....Swamiji Maharaj ki satsang
ki bate aapke jivan me moke par,samay par kam aa jay aur aapke jivan
me..."SADA DIWALI SANT KI ATHO PRAHAR AANAND.." yah aapka khudka
anubhav,Aapka jivan ho jay...yehi Prabhu charan kamal me prarthana
Jay Shree Krishna
Rameshji
-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Friends and Namaste Elders !

Wishing you all Happy ,Prosperous, Peaceful and A Safe Diwali
Sai Kumar
------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhaks, Jai Shri Krishna !!!
From Germany we wish you all a very happy dewali.
May Goddess Lakshmi always have their loving ASHIRWAADS
on all of us and on our great Bharat.
My humble request to all - please do not use any
PATTAKKAAS and other pollution making fireworks, on this holy day.
If you feel appropriate then help some other humans near you, with,
money, food
or clothes. Please see to it, that every one in our INDIA has a
trouble free sleep
atleast on GOD RAMAS DEEWALI Day. Gods Blessings and a very happy
dewali
to all Sadhaks.

Om Sen Datta
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Shashikala and Bhatt,

We are nowhere near being Saadhaks with all our mundane confusions
and worries and e xpectations. As Shri Shri Ramana of
Tiruvannamalai declared only when thought is abolished and mind is
annihilated is it possible to be a Saadhak at all. Till that time we
are all blind people trying to describe the elephant as the old
story goes. Divakaran Bangalore.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Gita-Talk Colleagues,
Humble Prostrations.
May this Deepavali enlighten all of us more about Life through the
teachings of Gita.
G.Vaidyanathan
------------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

In my heart I do understand Diwali. So with love I will re-radiate
the
divine light from my soul to all.

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike Keenor
------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Dear Sadhaks of this Divine Gita Talk Group !

Happy Diwali ! Diwali is Deepawali, literally a "row of oil lamps."
It is a festival of illumination. Let Devotion of God's name be your
lamp O Dear Sadhaks. May in this lamp oil of suffering be put, and
may God's name burn away that oil, annuling Yama's encounter ! May
the light of Atman drives out our darkness. May that light shines
forth from each of Sadhaks , a Sun in splendour, the revealed Brahmn.

Special salutations to Gita Talk Moderators. You make us do the
Jnana Yagya.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------------------
I thank you for the greetings and reciprocate the same.

Best regards,

M K Chaudhari

------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Best wishes to all of us. May our Diwali and New Year be blessed
by the Divinity!
Pratap Bhatt
------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Namaste Jee to Sadhaks of this divine site. May Diwali light the
lamp of knowledge in the life of each one of reader/contributor
sadhak and in the lives of Gita Talk Moderators and in the lives of
all else!

Nothing gives to me and to my Dear Hubby more pleasure than getting
engrossed in brain storming and conscience driven sessions of
deliberations. Forgive Dear Sadhaks if I erred anywhere!

Pranaams

Jee Jee
Shashikala
------------------------------------------------------
A lamp lighted in a darkened room illuminates it, irrespective of
whether the
room has been dark for a day, a week or a thousand years...On This
Diwali, The
Festival of Lights, let us expand our capacity for Love, for
Compassion, for
Peace so that our Heart, Our Sacred Space is illumined with the
Light of Joy,
Happiness and Bliss...
As long as there is even a drop of oil in the lamp, it fights and
keeps away
darkness..Let this be an inspiration to always dispel the darkness
of ignorance
with Knowledge, of hatred with Love, of cruelty with Compassion, of
falsehood
with Truth, of adharma with Dharma (righteousness)..
Lets make an effort to light this internal lamp, This Diwali and
Always...

Tamaso Maa Jyotirgamaya : Lead us from darkness to light..
Rajiv Narula

------------------------------------------------------
Dear All
Happy Dewali

Ram Ram
Vadhera, Bhanu PS
------------------------------------------------------

A Happy Diwali to all sadhaks
Hari Shanker Deo
-------------------------------------------------------
MAY THE LIGHTS OF DEEPAVALI FILL YOUR HART WITH DYNAMIC POWER AND
COMMITMENTS TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE YOUR ARYA DHARMA, PARAMPARA,
BHASHAA, RASHTRA AND SAMSKRUTI .

hindukrantivir

-------------------------------------------------------
Greetings
Wishing you Health & Prosperity!!

Naren Bhiku Ram Jain
--------------------------------------------------------
Jay Shri Krishna.

Happy Diwali

Hemendra Parikh
-------------------------------------------------------
Dear all,
My best wishes to each one of you and your families for a very very
happy DEEPAVALI !
May Lord Guruvayoorappan along with His consort Satyabhama seated on
the back of Garuda Vahanam,as He went to slay Narakasura, shower His
choicest blessings on all! May He bless us with a deluge of His
divine grace so that this country is not turned into "Sonitha-puram"
any more, as is happening these days!
Love
KVG and family.
K.V Gopalakrishna
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear All,

Radhe Krishna

"Wish you everyone very very HAPPY Deepavali"

Adiyen
Aranga Nathan.S
----------------------------------------------------------
Happy Diwali to everyone!!
Deepak Kumar Vasudevan
----------------------------------------------------------
NARAYAN NARAYAN

SABHI SADAK OUR PATHAK MAHANUBHO KO DIPAWALI KI SUBH KAMNA OR NAYE

SAL MAI PADARPAN KE LIYE PARAMPITA PERMESHWAR SE UUJAVAL BHAVESHY KI

ASHA KARTA HU

[RAMCHANDRA]
----------------------------------------------------------
DEAR BHAKTHAS ,

WISH YOU HAPPY DEEPAVALI !

THIS WEEK THAMIZH KAVITHAI IS
" MAAMUNIGAL PANJAKAM "
ABOUT SRI MANAVAALA MAAMUNIGAL

DASAN,
POIGAIADIAN
Parthasarathy Srinivasan
----------------------------------------------------------

Happy Diwali
Regards,

DILIP KUMAR RAVINDRAN
----------------------------------------------------------

Happy Diwali

Vyas, N.B
----------------------------------------------------------

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[gita-talk] Re: All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone? If Rare, why Waste My Time?

NEW QUESTION:
Narayan Narayan

IN ENLISH
All is only God can be intellectually understood, but how is one to
realize it this by the Self, or to experience it?

IN HINDI
Sub kuch bhagvan hi hein yeh baat bhudi se tho shamaz mai aathi hein
Per iska shvyam se anubhav kese ho

[ramchandra]

----------------------------------------------------------
NEW POSTING
Shree Hari Ram Ram
Clearing pending queue today... month end administration.
Gita Talk Moderators
Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------
Narayan Narayan

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a
chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,
and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the
flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not
enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only
Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and
placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender
to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his
mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the
mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all
that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.
God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,
please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.
In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our
ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.
[ramchandra)

IN HINDI
Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper
udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya
niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki
kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi
keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek
bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki
goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki
maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.
Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne
kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar
muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se
abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki
jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

[ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------

Vasdev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your
time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5
attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His
being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never
apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani
----------------------------------------------------------
Narayan Narayan
IN ENGLISH
With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only
God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.
Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things
as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but
even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of
not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from
the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is
only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done
by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even
if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas
etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a
small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said "Mere toh Giridhar
Gopal.." this is realization of the true essence of God. God is
ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays
with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we
consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only
Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will
this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with
us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with
us, then who should we consider our own?
(ramchandra)

IN HINDI
Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our
bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya
hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko
apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein
nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati
hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki
Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka
pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim
hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan
hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka
Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere
tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein
Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare
sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna
mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya
sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai
rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man
bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho
phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare
(ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------
jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH
It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,
there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the
five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being
part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of
Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the
three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them
to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also
being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think
about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore
everything is God only.
Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… "Vasudeva Sarvam iti…" Gita 7:19. This
body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all
is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,
Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that
EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.
[SHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

IN HINDI

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,
aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.
ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi
swaroop
hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha
ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein
yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi
swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our
parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi
hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)
SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA
MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.
KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN
[SHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Couldn't resist to say that Vyasji has made a beautiful point by
saying "'until nothing else is mine' is added, 'God is mine' is not
really established/complete". So true!
One cannot know what God is with mind, as all knowns are objects,
however, one can know what God is not(Dusra na koi). This may sound
like bad news, but good news is that one can BE, one need not know
by mind. This is by negation!
Once negation is completely established, everything known
resolves/dissolves into ABSOLUTE BEING!
Namaskar....Pratap Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Encouraged by Vyasji's feedback, I want to re-iterate the importance
of what he said in brief about this important topic with your
permission.
1) It is a fact that if I perceive/recognize changes in body, mind,
and in the world(all being perishables), there has to be Changless,
Constancy in my experience too. This is the proof of my true nature
being that Changeless Experience of ever Being present as background
in all situations of life! We call THAT Atman-SELF-Consciousness. It
becomes obvious to Sadhaka, down the road, he/she cannot be one that
comes and goes, rather is one that is permanent. He/she grows into
this Awareness!
2) Once the discrimination between perishables and permanent takes
hold, it has life of its own, and Sadhaka is led to experience of
ONENESS of all, perishables or otherwise.
Indeed, Vasudevah Sarvam goal shines/reins.
3) Sadhaka discovers that perishable, including even insentient
objects are experienced as merely shapes of Consciousness
(Chittakaras, Chittvrittis), just as elephant-like shapes of clouds
are made up of water vapors. That which is perceived/conceived is at
the same time THAT which perceives/consceives. Consciousness knows
Consciousness only, Bhakta merges in Bhagwan, Love loves love,
Beauty contemplates beauty!
Namaskar........

Pratap Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Oh Sure! Pratapji ! " Neti Neti" - Not thus , not thus is a sure
method of quick realisation . Agreed ! It is a law that if there is
no "negation" - you cannot establish accomplishment of a method.

Mirabai said -

"Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi" - Only God is mine, no body/
nothing else is mine.

Here " Mere to Girdhar Gopal ". (God is mine) is
establishing. "Doosaro na koi" ( Nothing else is mine)
is "negation" ! A lot of people may believe that " God is mine" but
till negation that "nothing else is mine" is added, it is not
established that "God is mine" Then "God is mine" is a mere addition
to the already existing list of mineness with wife, children,
parents, house, wealth, health, power, ability etc etc !.

But, If you are able to negate totally by using only self/conscience-
all that is "doosara" (other- the world, inert, every that thing
which changes) , you get "God Realisation" instantly. No nose is to
be pressed, no eyes are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no
posture is to be taken, no dhyaan, no dharna, no astanga yoga, no
meditation, no action, no shelter of matter, no austerities are to
be performed, no Himalayas are to be visited, no house is to be
deserted, no mind is to be controlled, no antahkaran is to be
purified- simply disconnection with the "other" viz the
perishable/changeable/ world/ mind, ego, intellect, body / worldly
people/bodies/things - by whatever name you call the "inert" (
Doosaro no koi) is to be accomplished by the "self" without using
the other- that is more than enough.

" God is mine"- it is always even otherwise, the connection is
eternal , it was in the past, it is now, it will be in future, it is
not possible to be otherwise ! Just negate the inert, just
relinquish the shelter of inert- the sentient will manifest AS IT
IS .

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------
Priy sadhaks
I am of the view that we can feel similar activities of our body
like heart beat etc. in every one n can realize that all is god coz
its being done by god.
Thanx
Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhaks,
Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa says, "There is water, butter ect in
milk understood intellectualy, but to see it or experience it". Now
one has to make milk to curd and then seperate butter, then water,
then ghee. So there is effort put in. To know the process you needed
someone to teach you. To know Paramathuma you need REAL SAT Guru to
tell how to do sadana to realize GOD. Sadaks I have been repeated
telling that God is "Apprameyam". Means God cannot be seen or felt
by humans just like seeing an object. To see a very small thing
blood cell one needs microscope. To see God or realize God one needs
only Gyana which almost all puranas, scripts, Gurus are saying. This
Gyana is said to be obtained over several birth practice of
Bakthi/meditation/sadana. This is also said in prominent scripts.
Saints came up only by their previous births sadanas. Saints
themselves said so. Bagavan in BG has said do Karma and leave the
fruits to ME. Do sadana and leave the responsibility to GOD to give
us Gyana or to see HIM.
B.Sathyanarayan.

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
I was in bliss when I read recent posts on what does it mean "to
know one's Self? Here I saw connection. Knowing oneself soon leads
to Vasudev Sarvam, all is nothing but God.
The process(for lack of better word) goes like this:
One asks "what am I?" If one doesn't answer quickly, allows some
silence and listens to it, then answer may come to that mind, not
from mind, but from the only source where the answer is constantly
humming, wanting it to be communicated! One gets some
hint/intuition, unclear at the time but with a ring of truth, that
nothing one can say or think or believe is one's true self. In
Swamiji's words, it is "I am not this, not that etc". (Neti neti per
Upanishads). At best, I can only feel I am, where "I" doesn't point
to anything objective! Because objects are not "me", I, necessarily,
have to be subject!
Now at this point, if one is dead serious and is burning with the
desire to know the Truth, one sees more clearly why one cannot be
anything mind knows, believes.
This is the most important stage. One will know that whatever word
(s) one says about oneself(body. mind, my relations) is just that
object(s) as expressed by thoughts and thus limited. Anything that
is defined with names are all limited objects appearing in our
consciousness, including mind.

But, then, who is the knower of those objects? Can we say anything?
if we say, then it is object and not the Subject. So we cannot say
who we are except to feel solidly WE Just ARE!
Thus if we cannot define/name ourselves, we cannot be limited, bound
by karmas, etc etc.

Thus one gets deep intuition of that answer to be the Silence, all
knowing Knower behind all knowledge to be one's True Self, Pure
Being, Unlimited, That Knows Itself, Self-Evident-Self effulgent
Atman or Brhman or Ishwara or God. This breaks the identification
with all limitations and one is Impersonal Being! Shankara says
Chidanand rupah Shivoham Shivoham! I am ever Auspious ever new
Bliss, Supreme Consciousness!

Finally this is the Understanding with which one lives in the world
in Freedom!
Namaskar...
Pratap Bhatt
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Right you are Pratapji ! People often wonder what is the proof that
we as a soul are imperishable / permanent? Arey - without your being
permanent/imperishable you can not even conceive / perceive the
impermanency/perishabilty !!

Indeed first discrimination must be there. Once that awakens in you,
starts guiding you , you realise that on a permanent, non changing,
spotless screen only ever changing movie can play, appear permanent,
though never so ! Indeed then only " VASUDEVAH SARVAM" goal rises in
Self !

How can perishable sustain without imperishable base? Thus, there
too, in perishable, there is Vasudevah !!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------

Swamiji spoke on Vasudev sarvam, which is full of Bhakti, as well
as, the ultimate realization on Gyan path( Sarvatma Bhava). Just as
Swamiji says, don't identify with that which is perishable, True
gyan is also the same realization about Atman-anatma, I being Atma,
only constant, undivided, Consciousness, Reality, Being. Everything
perishable is also Vasudeva, if "Vasudeva sarvam" has to be true for
Bhakta, seeing God in everything perishable too! In case of true
knowledge, particularly, discovered first handed by Sadhaka through
questions, clarifying doubts, trying to play devil's advocate with
Guru/Teacher/scriptures, there is a unsurpassed clarity and not a
question of non-verifiable belief. If we look at our experience even
now, there is nothing perishable in our experience, we just don't
look at it. All perishables are experienced only by being
conscious/aware and expressed as thoughts/feelings which are nothing
but Consciousness Itself shaped as objects of perceptions! The world
as we know it to be is not independent of Consciousness!
So nothing perishable has ever been experienced by us! Thus
everything here is verily Brahman, says the Sruti! This is why
Vasudeva sarvam is ultimate Gyan.

Thus Gyan/Bhakti are not separate experiences as I see it. I see
this coming out of Swamiji's message if one were to read between the
lines as he always calls God, the supreme Consciousness (Paramatma)!
When he says "Only God is mine and I am His, and no one is mine", it
is for his audiences who may be just beginning on the path so they
will have initial discrimination between perishables and Atman which
one is.

But ultimately one has to arrive at God being all and everything is
nothing but God, then even the world of objects is not devoid of
Him, thus experiencing (not only believing) Vasudeva Sarvam!

Pratap Bhatt

----------------------------------------------------------
Narayan Narayan

The chatak bird, only depends and lives on rain water. One time a
chatak bird was flying and it was hit by a baheliye. It fell down,
and Gangaji was flowing. The chatak bird, kept it's beak over the
flowing water, so that by some chance the Ganga water would not
enter it. Similiarly, we too must depend exclusively on only
Bhagwaan for our support. Wandering many places, depending and
placing reliance on others, what is there to gain? Simply surrender
to the one Bhagwan, where is the need for another? A child in his
mothers lap, even has the courage to scold a King, even though the
mother is not a complete embodiment of strength. But God is all
that. Taking refuge in Bhagwan is easy, simple and costs nothing.
God has said – one who comes to me just once, saying I am yours,
please protect me, I make him free of all fears, that is my vow.
In this there is no new work that needs to be done, only our
ignorance (our mistake) needs to be wiped out.
[ramchandra)

IN HINDI
Chatak keval varsha jal per depend rahta hein. Ek bar chatak uper
udd ra ha tha ek baheliye ne usko mar diya. Tho vah neche girgaya
niche ganga ji bah rahi thi. Chatak ne apni choch uper kar the ki
kahi gangaji ka jal mukh mein na cha la jay. Vese he hamare ko bhi
keval ek bhagvan ka hi sahara rakhna chahiye.

Jagah jagah bhatak ne se dushro ki garaj karne se kya labh ek
bhagvan ki sharan lelo phir dushre ki kya jarurat hein (balak maa ki
goud mein bheta hota hein tho raja ko bhi dhamka deta hein jab ki
maa sharvshaktiman na hi hein, phir bhagvan tho sharvshaktiman hein.
Sarnagati bhahut sasta, sugam our shareshth sadhan hein. Bhagvan ne
kaha hein ''jo ek bar bhi saran mein akar mai-apka hu esha kah kar
muz se rakhsha ki yachna karta hein u-se mai samashth praniyo se
abhayay ker deta hu yeh mera verth hein. ha mai naya kam karne ki
jarurat nahi hein keval apni bhool mitani hein.

[ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------

Vasudev Sarvam is Vasdev Sarav roopam, why worry about waste of your
time. You are his, how could the time be yours? Recognize all the 5
attributes of God, you will have the utmost faith and belief of His
being every one's and in all forms of this prikriti (Nature). Never
apply question mark to your belief. God Bless. Hari Motwani
----------------------------------------------------------
Narayan Narayan
IN ENGLISH
With a true and simple heart accept that you are only God's and only
God is mine. God has said this Jeev is a part of Him and Him alone.
Being an ansh.. part, we are specially His. To consider other things
as our own is a grave mistake. Everything else is perishable, but
even the perishable is Bhagvaan's lower nature. But we instead of
not considering them to be Bhagvaan's, we begin to look at them from
the perspective of enjoying and accumulating these things. It is
only God, the description of that extraordinariness cannot be done
by anyone. Paramatma is infinite, beyond, without boundaries. Even
if all the descriptions of Paramatma from the scriptures and Vedas
etc are put together, even they will not be complete in describing a
small part of Paramatma. Just like Meera Bai said "Mere toh Giridhar
Gopal.." this is realization of the true essence of God. God is
ours and will always remain ours. Besides God, no one else stays
with us, cannot stay with us, then besides God, who should we
consider our own? In the end, one will have to consider only
Bhagvan as own. If we think… will this body stay with us? Will
this house, this family stay with us? Will land, wealth stay with
us? Will respect, name, fame stay with us? Nothing will stay with
us, then who should we consider our own?
(ramchandra)

IN HINDI
Sache dil se(herday)sawikar ker le ki hum bhagvan ke hein Our
bhagvan hamare hein. Bhagvan nein jeev ko khas apna aanas bathaya
hein Aanas ho ne ke nahte hum khas bhagvan ke hein Dusare chij ko
apna manna bhahut badi galti hein Bhaki sab kshanbhangur hein
nashvan hein halanki khanbhangur Nashvan bhi bhagvan ke apra prakati
hein Per hum usko bhagvan ki vashtu na manker bhoj our sangrah ki
Dharastri se dekhte hein. Ek parmathma hi hein unki velaxntha ka
pura varnan koi ker Sakta he nahi vah aanat hein,apar hein,ashim
hein,aaj den tak Ved, puran adi shastro mein parmatma ka jo varnan
hu-aa hein Vah sab ka sab ektha ker liya jaye tho us-se parmatma ka
Kisi chote anas ka bhi varnan nahi hoga. Je-se (meera bai ne-mere
tho girdhar gopal.....) Yeh asali tatav ki shamaz ki bhat hein
Bhagvan hamare hein sada hamare rahege. In ke shivay dushara Hamare
sath rahta hi nahi reh saktha nahi phir bhagvan ke sivay Kisko apna
mane annat mai bhagvan ko hi apna manna padega. Vichar kare-kya
sareer her dum sath mai rahega, kya ghar kutumb Sada sath mai
rahega,kya jameen jaydad sada sath rahegi, Kya adar satkar man
bhadai sada sath mai rahegi,jab hamare sath Koi rahne wala nahi tho
phir hum kisko apna mane kisse prem kare
(ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------
jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH
It is written in our scriptures that other than the eight elements,
there is nothing else… earth, water, fire, wind, space (ether) (the
five main elements) and mind, intellect and ego. These eight being
part of Paramatma's Nature (prakriti swabhav), they are a form of
Him alone. The body is made up of the five elements and even the
three mind, intellect, and ego are of Paramatma, but we assume them
to be ours which is the mistake we make. This embodied soul also
being part of Paramatma's Nature is part of Paramatma's form. Think
about it, other than these elements, what else is there? Therefore
everything is God only.
Sab jagah Ishvar roop hai… "Vasudeva Sarvam iti…" Gita 7:19. This
body, the senses, the mind, the intellect, everything.. all in all
is Paramatma, but we believe them to be ours and become bonded,
Because the ultimate, best of all and truthful point is that
EVERYTHING is ONLY GOD.
[SHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

IN HINDI

shastri mein in 8 chijo ke sivay kuch nein hai -prathvi,jal,tej,vau,
aakash,(panch mahabhot)our man,budhi,or ahankar.
ye aatho(8) parmatama perkrti(shbhav) ho ne se permatama ka hi
swaroop
hein. panchmahabhoto se bana huaa sharir or man ,bhudhi ta-tha
ahankar bhi bhagvan ke he hu-aa in ko hum apna manlete hein
yehi galti hein. jeev bhi parmatama ki prakarti ho ne parmatma ka hi
swaroop hu-aa aap vichar kare aath(8)prakarki apra prakirti jeev our
parmatama -in(10). dus ki sevhay our kya hein sub kuch parmatama hi
hu-ye. (sub jag ishwar roop hein.-VASUDEV SERVAM(GEETA-7/19)
SARIR INDRIYA MAN BHUDI SUB KE SUB [PARMATAMA]KE HEIN IN KO HUM APNA
MAN KER HUM BHANDAN MAI PADE HU-AA HEIN.
KARAN KI ANTIM SARAVSHRETH OUR SACHI BHAT YE HI HEIN
[SHIVKUMAR NARAVAT]

----------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY OF RESPONSES FROM PREVIOUS QUESTIONS
Questions:

1) Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for ordinary people
like me ? If it is rare to be able to realize this, then what is the
point in wasting my time in seeing in everyone God only ?

Do not be discouraged by word "rare". God has said he is Sulabh
(easily attainable) whereas devotee is "durlabh" rarity. "All is
God" is a reality. IT IS. That is ALL. Therefore no question! God
Realization is simple and easy, only we have to be in our simplest
form, like a child seeking His mother. Ignorantly, we do nothing
but "waste our time". When something is really not mine, what right
do I have to "use" or "waste" it? It is self-importance only. Unless
conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS GOD AND GOD IS ALL.
Therefore move forward or time will move forward.

2) What should be my goal of life?

The only certain goal of life is The Death (of all my goals..etc.)
Our goal in this life should be "God Realisation" only.
I am of my Raam and Raam is mine. Sins of many lifetimes can be
instantly wiped out when we become God's. Mine-ness with God is key,
thereafter after everything is automatic. There is only One, Only
Vishnu. Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi. Only
God is Mine, No one else is.

3) Which Scripture should I read and believe in?

Any scripture will do … ONLY IF one wields the resolve required.
Believe in yourself. Gitaji is the greatest scripture and time that
is well spent. Let there be one scripture -Bhagavad Gita and let
there be one occupation only - service to the supreme personality of
godhead. "The gates of heaven are guarded by the hounds of hell that
lay within", now with wisdom of The Gita, will add "Turning to God,
will put a leash on these brutes". Gita is for All without
discrimination. Arjun is within each of us.

4) How to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ?

If you want "Vasudeva Sarvam" It IS and you have it. Read Sadhak
Sanjivani. It is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND (jad,
inert) and instantly you will be Vasudev: Sarvam." Virtually none
have succeeded so far in controlling the mind, therefore throw in
dust bin, as one cannot attain the imperishable by
the perishable. Mind complicates. Gets stuck on one verse in Gita
Chp 6. Mind is an obstacle in God Realization. This fellow (mind) is
difficult to remove, and also helpful in digging out the filth, by
being a reflecting mirror. I need this fellow till he becomes the
Peace within and vanishes. God is beyond Mind. Self out of
ignorance, falls pray to mind and positions in alien Nature, thus
suffering. (Gita 13:21) Who gets liberated? SELF is eye behind all
eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu). Vasudevah Sarvam cannot be realized
by body, mind, intellect (BMI), as inert cannot realize sentient
that is beyond nature (Gita 15:18). Clearly covered in 50+ Gita
verses. Realization is thru' renunciation of BMI. Stop using Mind at
all – first, Vasudevah is beyond mind. Rely on your conscience, on
inner expressions (bhavas). Surrender Mind to God. Be a child,
Daddy is only a subject of belief. Renouncing shelter of BMIE, that
are continually renouncing you. Only by faith and bhava (inner
expression) Vasudeva Sarvam can be realized. Gita addresses three
main paths 1) Gyan yog, 2) Karma yog and 3) Bhakti Yog to
realization, one must assess based on own nature, aptitude and
liking the right path for themselves. Therefore carefully read
Gitaji. Disowning mind is jnana path.

Begin by desiring God. Then "Nam Samaran" (rememberance of God). Do
not be complacent. God is within you and everywhere. He is all
pervasive. To realize this - Meditate. Take shelter of "open eye
meditation" to realize "All is God" – Sahaj Sadhana" i.e. Father of
world is beyond knowledge. Don't wait see God Everywhere. Try It.

One either sees God or sees the World. For Chitta Sudhi
(purification) see only God, like seen in devotee's stories –
Prahalad etc. It is unwise to confuse knowledge with knowing,
(knowledge through experience). Feel what is live, with every
Breath, heart beat of your body. Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If
all is God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. Dedicate
all to Supreme Almighty and be absolved of all consequences. Lord
Krishna has blessed all approaches.

5) How belief can have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief?
If there is belief, how there can be doubt?

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind; Belief is output of what
we have other than mind. Belief can never be , if there is doubt.
Belief is when there is no proof of empirical nature. Child jumping
into mother's arms has no doubts only faith. We are where our mind
is and until curtain (mind) remains, realization is not possible.
We are the Absolute Being, which is Impersonal Intelligence (Supreme
Consciousness) that knows Itself beyond all beliefs. Shraddha, trust,
acceptance originate out of self, which is beyond inert (Jad) Mind.
Gita 7:21 says " I stablise shraddha" i.e. Remove all doubts from
shraddha. "Sthitosmi gat sandeh… " I am positioned in doubtlessness.
Only way to God realization is treating the dualities equally -
faith and doubt, known and unknown. etc On must be free of biases.
How can anything be not THAT? In order to have doubt, a knowable
object must be there. In case of THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't
know anything. When we don't know anything, how the very basis of
doubt will arise. Doubt on what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.
Bhakti marg – no doubts. there cannot be wrong in any words
whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner.

6) How "true bhajan" can be done only by "self" ?

Bhajan is Bhajan, if you are not the "doer" and you belong to only
God and God is Everything. Now what is the problem? Be only God's,
thus become free of all problems. True Bhajan is not with the Mind
and always by Self (Gita 18:73). It is where God appears sweet to
you. Love of God is real bhajan, which arises from inner sentiment,
naturally and spontaneously e.g. mother/child. All work becomes
God's work, for His children, living in His house. This is bhajan.
Connection is only God. (Yat karoshi – Gita 9:26)

Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Loving Divines,
Pranams.
Beautiful, beautiful satsang indeed... Thanks to all for sharing
the views and experiences. Thanks to moderatorji for managing it.
The bottom line is whether it is, let it be a doubt, faith, trust,
acceptance, rejection, mind, intellect, body, argument, peace, love,
brotherhood or whatever, all, everything, arise from IT and merges
back in IT, ultimately, it is Vasudevam Sarvam, any way! when it
arises waves of restlessness emerges and when it merges it is all
very, extremely peaceful, feel it...!
all is beautiful... Thanks everyone. humble regards,
always at Thy Holy Feet

Manjula Patel
----------------------------------------------------------
Definitely everything in this world is God. Rest is all illusion.
This is for everybody since it is true. Hari Shanker Deo
----------------------------------------------------------

2nd FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS:
Dear Sadhaks, Thank you for right advices to me. I too feel that
mind is obstacle in perceiving reality.

QUESTIONS: But how "true bhajan" can be done only by "self" ? Also
Nagaji said - "Belief must necessarily have doubts" - how belief can
have doubts? If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,
how there can be doubt?

Kindly enlighten. I am feeling over whelmed by nectar flowing from
all of you. Jee Jee Shashikalaji- thanks, I will try to put mind
away while practicing all is God. I see a point there.
At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan
MM Purohit
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Priya Sadhaks

Thank you! Thanks a lot! Vasudeva smiled on me when I came in touch
with this Gita Talk Group. What a discussion. I AM FULLY SATISFIED .
I am happy to be part of such a divine family. Thanks in particular
to Tamma and Akka. I am fully satisfied and feel I have just now
taken bath in the Holy Ganges. I read entire discussion twice again
today. My wife also joins me in thanking you all. She also read.
Thanks again.

MM Purohit
----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Sorry Naga Bhaiyya, if I hurt you. I am proud to be your Akka.

Once you have distanced your "self" with "your" mind- the summit is
not far away. Swamiji says the moment something starts appearing
different than us, that thing is GONE ! Kaajal so long it is in eyes
it is invisible. When it is at a distance , on the finger, it
becomes visible. Whatever is visible is not YOU ! Scene and Seer are
always different !!

The moment one starts cracking jokes on his own mind, it is a clear
indication that one has separated himself from it. ( It is my
personal Experience with this FELLOW). This mind, Tamma Bhaiyya, is
so solid that otherwise that it will never let you crack a joke on
it. After all it controls the body and more often than not- Self
Himself. My hearty greetings to you on this count. Journey has
really now attained pace. The water shall now flow faster towards
the ocean.

Pranaam- from younger Akka to elder Tamma. Pranaam from deep within.
Namaste Jee
Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

Reading Jee Jee Shashikalasji's last comment, put me in mind of a
metaphor (I think it is mine): "The gates of heaven are guarded by
the hounds of hell that lay within", now with wisdom of The Gita,
will add "Turning to God, will put a leash on these brutes".

With Respect and Divine Love. Mike (Mike Keenor)
----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

My hearfelt congratulations to Naga Narainji. Indeed you have
exhibited to all of us a divine greatness. Indeed to accept
something arises from within-Self . Indeed divine only is playing
His Lila. Indeed you, me, your Akka all are THAT only ! Indeed this
Satsanga brought Vasudevah Sarvam in all of Us. Indeed Lord Shiva is
with all of us. Lovely response by you. My pranaams to you. Please
keep contributing to Sadhak's questions- it my humble request.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

Those who go against Bhagwaan, they too receive strength from
Bhagwaan, then what to speak of those that are doing Bhajan, will
they not get strength from Bhagwaan? You simply turn towards God,
then sins of a million years will be wiped out, but if you do not
turn towards God, how will this sin of million lifetimes be
destroyed? Bhagwaan gives strength to enemies, as well as, His
loving devotees. In Kaliyug, simply on the support of recitation and
recollection of divine Name, one can cross the ocean of life.
Ramchandra

IN HINDI
Bhagwan ka virodh kar ne wale danvo ko bhi bhagwan se bal milta
Hai tho kya bhagwan ka bhagan ker ne waloo ko bhagwan se bal nahi
Mi le ga aap bhagwan ke sanmukh ho jaoo tho karodo janmo ke pap nast
Ho jayege per aap sanmukh hi nahi hoje tho pap kese kateje.
Bhagwan shatru-o ko bhi shakti de te hai premiyo ko bhi shakti de te
hai. Kalyuj mai ek name adhara sumir sumir nar ut re paar.
Ramchandra

----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

One important thing which I feel will give this holy debate
regarding belief a grand final end.

"Doubt" is always on that thing about which we know something and do
not know something- on what is subject matter of knowledge.. In
order to have doubt, a knowable object must be there. In case of
THAT Supreme Consciousness, we don't know anything. When we don't
know anything, how the very basis of doubt will arise. Doubt on
what? Hence - Belief and Belief only.

Hence Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj stated in one of his discourses,
that in the path of Vishwas, (Bhakti Yoga) there should not be any
doubt and in the path of knowledge (Jnana Yoga), there should always
be doubt. This topic was elaborately debated in this forum only a
few months back.

Nagaji, kindly forgive me if I have in any manner caused distress to
you. We all are part of Him only. Your offerring in the divine fire
of this Jnana Yajna is as great as are of all others.

Rajendra J Bohra
Narayan Narayan
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
This is in reference to comments by Sadhakas on my previous
observations on belief and doubt! At the outset I echoed
reconciliatory tone to see how we can see Nagaji's statement "belief
must necessarily have doubts" and views expressed by others "Believe
without doubt - all is God". I didn't imply right or wrong on
anyone's part.
In the spirit of sharing I would like to observe the following as
some questions are raised! I am using the context of path of Self-
Knowledge here as we all are sharing knowledge and minds.
The entire teaching of Upanishadas emphasize dialogues between Guru
and desciple where disciple asks questions, raises doubts and get
pointers to discover his/her true nature. He/she is encouraged to
inquire, not what to do or to believe in even what Guru says! It is
the first handed discovery of SELF by him/her which is most
effective in establishing one as SELF! Upon hearing the truth from
the lips of Guru(Shrawana), desciple looks at inner experience
taking place right at that time and later(Manana). Down the path
(Nididhyasna/Meditation), there is THE Knowingness beyond beliefs!
It is said that God is such knowingness and not a matter of belief
in the Advaita Vedantic context!
It is also said that God is beyond Knowledge. What it means is that
God cannot be the object of mind or God is not like any other
knowledge where one is subject-knower and God is object-known. Why,
because all objects are limited and God cannot be one!
However, God is Knowingness-Consciousness-Atman-Brahman Itself that
knows all there is to be known. God is PURE Subjectivity, not even
the Subject.(this is not theory, please)
What is known is limited always but Whatever it is that knows is not
limited by anything known, which is God or SELF or our true
identity. Self knows SELF, doesn't need to believe. Knowingness is
not perceiving by mind, but apperception, meaning Knowingness
knowing Itself beyond a shadow of doubt.
What is the meaning of Vasudeva Sarvam in this context? If all is
God, then our Body-Mind-World also have to be GOD. In Vedantic
teaching the first understanding is "I am not the Body-mind
individual I thought I was", this is the descrimination-viveka. But
the final teaching is "All there is, is Consciousness-God-Vasudev-I
AM", this is Vasudev Sarvam.
Here "I" points to Absolute existence-Consciousness and not an
individual I.
"I" is not body-mind but body-mind is also "I". Such Realization
has to be conveyed to sadhakas, so mind is called in to do this. It
is not the same mind that was worldly before, but servant of SELF so
to speak! Swamiji's messages, and Scriptures are communicated this
way by mind even though the teaching originate beyond mind!
Namaskars....Pratap
(Pratap Bhatt)
----------------------------------------------------------
I am overwhelmed by the Love and Concern from my fellow Saadhaks …
after all it is truly worthy to have such Satsang. So, let me
rejoice my experience with the Praarthana dawned out of the occasion
… raising from The Shiva, the ocean of everything …

Everyone is pleading ... drop this fellow - the mind (let me add the
body to the list since mind is inseparable from the body) ... so do
I ... but this unfortunate fellow that I am with does not seem to
respect it. But ... I see that the truely unfortunate one is me who
is standing in between begging this fellow not to ditch me in
lurch ... I cannot fathom how to see anything without him. When I
urge him for the reason, he tells me that I cannot see anything
without him as far as I keep seeing through him. Just shift your
sight … you will see ... he hints. But, you see ... I can not
dismiss him as he does not belong to me, he can not quit as he is
tied to me … I have to find the knot ... I have to release that
knot ... therefore, I am helplessly waiting till this fellow
realizes that he should retire! He has promised me that he will
retire when I develop confidence that I can see without him ... He
assures, "I will definitely quit when you are ready!" … Therefore, I
am preparing to fathom how one could possibly see without him ...
and, see what …

But, …

I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts - as I
see and as I can …
I have to yet face The Bhairava Nartana - the wrath of desires and
fears … within and around …
I have to yet invite The Shanmukha to destroy my three fold ego
rooted in body, mind and experience …
I have to yet receive The Ganapati to help me appreciate the Gana
Nartana as is … as he leads …
I have to then collect all my courage to become the stage for the
Taandava Nritya of The Rudra to burn away all my vasanas and sins …
I have to then let the Deva Ganga flow through me to wash away the
ashes of the vasanaas and sins …
I have to still receive the blessing of The Mother to experience her
great brother the All Compassionate Life …
Then I have to wait for the blessings of The Shiva, The Peace … as I
am in This Blissful Life …
I am still inviting the Gana Nartana - the floating thoughts …
still, as I see to and to appreciate it as I can …

Therefore, …

I pray …

Let all The Ganas bless me to be worthy of receiving them, The
Thoughts and The Actions, as I can …
Let The Bhairava evoke The Courage in me to slaughter my desires and
the fears …
Let Lord Shanmukha bless my with The Knowledge, breaking the three
cities I have built shattering the imposter hero (Nayaka) hiding
within …
Let Lord Vinayaka bless me with The Wisdom to remove the traces of
this flase Nayaka within …
Let Father Rudra bless me with The Strength to withstand the removal
all my urge to dscirminate enroute …
Let Mother Gowri bless me The Compassion which mitigates the very
instinct of any discrimination ….
Let Lord Shiva shower the The Peace where there is no more
discriminations, dualities, conflicts, relations, emotions,
thoughts, actions, … revealing ALL as just THAT … and THAT as ALL …
Let The Kaivalya break all the gates that I pretend to guard to
flood its agents, The Ganas, The Thoughts and The Actions, the
fellow Sadhakas and their alerts, into me … AS THEY ARE …

I pray … I plead within …

Never believe … never doubt …
Never believe in what you have, in what you know, and in what you
are … The Serpent of ignorance poisons you with the venom of beliefs
and doubts …
Never doubt the nature, the freedom, and the completeness … The Bull
of inertia stampedes on your very existence in the rage of desires
and fears …

But, … do believe … do doubt …

Believe that you cannot have, believe that you cannot know and
believe that you are not … to be The Serpant of wisdom that is lucky
enough to embrace the Neelakantha …
Doubt your possessions … doubt your knowledge … doubt your
identities … to be The Bull of courage that is worthy enough to
carry the Mahadeva …

Because, … I know … I fathom from the depth of my existence …

Once The Rudra arrives riding me and comforting me around his neck,
the twins - faith and doubt – naturally vanish into Him leaving no
more doubts and no more beliefs … but just HIM.

Therefore … let me pray …

Naga Narayana.
----------------------------------------------------------
Just a personal note …

My understanding is that there cannot be wrong in any words
whosoever uttered in whatsoever manner. The very Bramhan makes every
syllable, every sound and every atom to their perfection as such. In
that case, how can anything built by these basic building blocks can
be NOT perfect?!

Also, however detailed one can express oneself, all the expressions
remain a tip of the iceberg, the experience beneath the expressions
remaining infinitely concealed. Thus, every expression in this world
has its own legitimacy in terms of the experience that backs it up.
Following is my opinion on finding wrong in somebody's utterances:

1. Finding something wrong or objectionable in some body else's
utterances is utterly erroneous in itself since nobody can access
somebody else's iceberg of experience and hence get disqualified
automatically.
2. It is useless to find wrong and objectionable aspects in
somebody's writings as it does not bring any new understanding – one
who finds wrong is sticking to what he already "knows" – retaining
one's ignorance intact.
3. It is dangerous to make an attempt to find errors in others
because the very attempt is to justify one's own errors and even to
conceal the same.

Anyway, to let you know, writing is the medium of my meditation - to
purge my thoughts. Therefore, I practice unconstrained writing - it
goes as it comes. Any restraint is an obstacle from the ego. At
least while writing, I, as an ego, do not want that to intrude in
the job of my colleagues – mind, intellect and body – who truly are
helping the process of my self-cleansing. I don't normally revisit
the writings, because the editor often becomes the ego. As you
understand, the purpose of my writing is to appreciate my own
difficulties … NOT TO TEACH ANYBODY! All thewritings posted were
impersonal in nature … I request you to treat it the same way … and
let me keep it the same way.

Obviously, I have no intentions to negate anybody or hurt anybody …
as it so happened … the opinions passed through me has converted a
healthy discussion into a warring debate wherein both Shraddha and
Bhajan are thrown into air … If it turns to this, I do not need to
post these worthless opinions …

I apologize as per somebody's request in the postings … I apologize
as per my wish … if I have hurt anyone knowngly or unknowingly …
just ignore this fellow. Thank You.

Be Blessed and Be Blissed.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
----------------------------------------------------------

PRIOR POSTING:

Dear Shri Pratap,
Ultimately it is all Shraddha. Yoh yah shraddaha sa eva saha. Gita.
Divakaran Dr. Subbanarasu
----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Pratap Bhaiyya. Nothing wrong has been told by me, Jee to Naga
Bhaiyya. Where is doubt Jee in belief? Did not I use all four -
faith/shraddha/viswas/trust? Add also to that Jee , "acceptance"
word so adored by Swamiji Ramsukdasji Maharaj, Jee! What is wrong
with our reply, Jee?

Yes- mind should be kept in deep freezer Jee? What did you think, it
means literally ? No - it means relinquishing the shelter thereof.
Swamiji many times called it as a "dog" also Jee! Many great Saints
and Shrimad
Bhagavatam called it as such Jee. You have to look at "bhava"
Bhaiyya, not the
specific words / language used. There is no negativity there Jee !

Bhaiyya! If SELF is eye behind all eyes (Chakshushashya chakshu)
rightly stated by you - When I said "eye can not see itself", then I
referred to that eye viz "chakshushashya chakshu" only ! Happy
Bhaiyya! I meant to say - Self is not subject matter of knowledge
nor is Paramatma who is Self only. Example given was that of eye. It
can be any eye Bhaiyya! Physical, antar drishti (inner eye), vivek
drishti (conscience eye) or your great "Chakshushashya chakshu" Jee!
Any eye !!

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Akka and others!

I am overwhelmed by all your attention on the thoughts passed
through this fellow (mind, in your vocabulary; you may even include
the body here to make this unfortunate fellow complete) who is
unworthy of such attention. It shows it has stirred many of you as
it did to this fellow and to me. Great! He has done his job!!
Please keep throwing these sacred stones at me anyway … your poor
Tamma (spoiled younger brother) in distress really needs them …

I am trying to alienate and remove this fellow … but frankly he has
no shame … he keeps bothering me with his thoughts and actions … he
even
pretends that he is providing me the solution to get rid of him as
well! … I may
have to wage a war against this fellow … but I still want this
fellow by my side
… On one side weakness of attachment, he is still dear to me, giving
up on him
does not seem
to be as easy as you all univocally declare – you seem to be really
lucky there … or, can you give up on your poor Tamma just like that?!

On the other side, he really helps me dig out the filth embedded
deep in my person, This fellow is just a mirror reflecting me and my
filth truthfully all the time … I still need this fellow's help to
reveal my
filth to its core !

The conflict will go on in a sweet way, and in a painful way
irrespective of my wishes … one good thing is definitely happening …
the awareness of The Knowledge, The Bliss and The Peace. I know we
all mean the
same thing … how can anybody utter anything other than THAT when
THAT is
everything … I will try to understand better …

I need this fellow's help … till THAT FELLOW reveals The Rudra Natya
through his agent, till HE becomes THE PEACE within and around … he
is bound to
vanish when The Shiva is revealed in me as this fellow is nothing
but Him …
once he is gone, what am I without the mirror … The Nothing, The
Shiva.

Thanks to this fellow who is facilitating me into a Mumukshu, and
Moksha … as far as I do not show my tantrums to collect the filth
back … Please
dare me or beat me, if I show any symptoms to do so …
Thanks for showering your concerns … that means a lot to me.

Love.

Naga Narayana
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Pratapji has indeed given certain points worth understanding.

Please note that "to believe", is the power of "self" who is beyond
mind and Arjuna at the end of Gita confirmed that doubtless belief
exists. A
child also confirms this. Hence it can not be said that if doubt is
not there,
then belief also is not there.

Clarity on this basic thing can change a sadhak. What did Krishna
say in 7:21? He said " I stablise shraddha". What is that
stablisation ? Removal
of doubts from shraddha. That proves shraddha must be doubtless !!
And that it
can exist without doubt. Clear ?

The use of words "putting mind in deep freezer" or "pure belief"
or "true bhajan" (in Swamiji's language "asli" bhajan) etc. are to
stress the
difference between what is commonly understood and what is reality.
No body in
reality puts the mind in deep freezer. But there is no doubt that if
we want to
realise Paramatma, or "Vasudevah Sarvam" then we must renounce the
shelter of
inert-
mind/body etc. Hence "drop the mind" or "put the mind in deep
freezer" - it is not negativity, but necessary.

However beautiful, versatile or amazing this mind may be, for
Paramatma realisation or attainment of peace, it is an obstacle
therefore it
should be renounced.
Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

I am happy Pratapji agreed that shraddha, trust, acceptance etc are
not outputs of mind. It is true. They originate out of self, which
is beyond inert.(Jad)

Question here is not as to what is dictionary but the issue is that
we are addressing here a sadhak's question of a spiritual
significance to help
sadhaks in their spiritual pursuits. In religion, in Hindu
Scriptures, in Gita
the terms have been used inter changeably. Gita calls it "shraddha"
or
"nishtha".

How do you help a sadhak by telling him that belief can't exist
without doubt?
Is that answer to his query? Is that substantiated by
Gita or Ramayana or by any Scriptures? What about one who considers -
"Vasudevah
Sarvam" as his spiritual bhava?

Is Gita wrong? Are Saints and Sages wrong? Are Scriptures wrong?
Quote a single
scripture where it is stated that belief cannot exist without doubt?
What about
Gita? Where does it say that belief can't exist without doubt?

Now to say that "belief" originates from mind and "faith" originates
from self- Not a correct argument at all !! In no scripture it is
stated so. We are talking about Gita here.

Hence sadhaks expressed their disagreement. I too did it and I stand
by whatever I said.

Rajendra J Bohra
Narayan Narayan

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
I feel compelled to share some observations on posts commenting on
Nagaji's observations on Belief and Doubt resonating deeply with me.
It seems to me the meaning of "Belief" as he uses could be different
than others commenting on it, which could well be the reason, among
others, for differing views, nothing more. We all have different
meanings of the same words depending on our own conditioning /
exposure to those words. I have reconciled it this way. Most common
notion of
belief is something one believes in when there
is no proof of empirical nature based on mind, including sense
perceptions, intellect, memory, ego-self(Mind-stuff). Then they
say "just believe, don't doubt, drop the mind etc etc". This way it
may get used interchangeably as Faith or Shraddha.
However, for most people, it is not clear that Shraddha(Unshaken
Trust) is not at the level of mind, it is beyond mind, emanating
from the ultimate Knowingness beyond all beliefs.
Unfortunately enough, then, belief is taken to mean at mind level by
them, so the doubt arises invariably. When belief is at mind level,
doubt lurks behind it, like a two-sided coin: one cannot have belief
and not have doubt, is perhaps what is meant to convey! They rise
together, are sustained together and die together! Just as desire
and fear, pain and pleasure, and host of such seemingly dualistic
terms. The moment one desires an object, there is fear of not having
the object of desire simultaneously, one may not notice the real
cause being desire itself. This is so because it is mind's nature in
absence of correct understanding! Correct understanding is that no
such pairs of opposites exist. E. G. Cold is not opposite of Heat as
two independent entities, only one with the degree, termed as other.
When we say "belief" it is relative to "doubt" only whether we
acknowledge or not, mind knows/needs it being relative terms. If, in
a mind there is no doubt, then no belief either, meaning rising
above both to THAT absolute "knowingness" of Atman, Consciousness,
wordless reality of ALL! In the absence of darkness, there is Light
only and nothing else, then do we need to call light a light? It is
THAT whatever it is! Similarly when mind is stripped off doubts(all
such duality) and stand naked, one can say it has "pure belief,
divine belief etc etc" as conventions but understanding is it is the
Absolute THAT! This is my reconciliation between belief(mind based)
and shradhha or faith(beyond mind).

On another point, "part cannot know Paramatma" implying we are part!
But what we are really is not the part(body-mind) that tries to know
God. We are not eye that wants to see eye, we are The Eye behind all
eyes(Chakshusya Chakshuh)! We are the Absolute Being which is
Impersonal Intelligence(Supreme Consciousness) that knows Itself
beyond all beliefs, to the extent even ignorance/beliefs cannot
exist without IT! (statements like "I don't know or I am ignorant"
are such Knowingness and we are THAT!).
Another point on mind is that with such deep understanding, the mind
becomes objective instrument to serve the SELF, and not a useless
thing to be put in freezer! I try not to use negeative terms for
such a beautiful instrument helping us on Sadhana to have a glimpse
of our true nature! In such glimpse, mind recognizes itself being
non-existent in itself whose existence is borrowed from Atman-SELF
as instrument to serve!
Still another point is that everything seems coming from what we
call mind, even words of scriptures and sages when spoken or
written. The difference is that Intimations of impersonal truth-
intelligence, right actions, acceptance, etc. originate beyond mind,
and mind having such glimpse only communicates that for the benefits
of sadhakas!
Namaskaras.........Pratap
(Pratap Bhatt)

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Naganarayanji,
When a child jumps from up to down, does he do so after thinking
whether he will
fall into his mother's hands, does he have any
doubts there? Does he? What! Does the child not have faith /
belief in the mother? This is faith/belief without any doubts, then
how can you say that without doubt one cannot have faith?
Absolutely ! one can have faith! Even small child has, then what to
speak of adults. Ramchander

IN HINDI
Naganarayanji,
Jab ek bacha uper se niche kudta hai ye souch ker ki sidha apni ma
Ke hatho mai jayega tab us bache mai koi douat hota haikya?
Lekin kya us bache mai apni ma per visvas bhinahi hota ?
Ye hai visvas bina sandeh ke aap kai se kah sakte hai ki sandeh ke
Bina vishvas nahi hota hota hai hota hai hota hai
Chote bache ko bhi hota hai bado ki tho bat hi kya.

Ramchander
----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

One must drop the mind because, God is beyond mind. Mind is not
instrument of "knowing"- even if for argument sake it is - then God
is beyond knowledge.

What is not subject matter of "knowledge" can only be subject matter
of "belief". Belief can never be , if there is doubt ! NEVER !!
There are specific verses in Gita and why one or two , there is one
entire chapter in Gita which deals only with belief. I humbly don't
agree, with whatever Nagaji has stated re compulsion of doubt with
belief and frankly it makes no sense to me. (I seek his apologies ,
as a sadhak, humbly).

Muraliji - as Rajaji says - Throw away all doubts to the winds. Yes -
All is God! Yes- it is easy. Yes- mind is not required there! Yes-
there should not be any doubt. Yes- there should be belief.

Rajendra J Bohra
Narayana Narayana

----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Just start seeing God everywhere as expressed by Sathyanarainji and
Gurdasaniji. Don't wait for anything. You can't go wrong, all wrongs
will go away.

Try it, try from functioning of your body. Try with your parents.
Try with your wife. Every day resolve - today I will try to see God
in every one. See instantly how the entire world changes for you.
That will enthuse you more than this academic tangles of knowers,
knowable and knowledge. Know yourself to be of God! That is all the
knowledge is. There can not a belief if there is doubt. Kick away
the doubts totally and stick to belief - All is God !

What did Arjuna say in the end of Gita? Forgotten? He said to Lord
Krishna-

"Sthitosmi gat sandeh, karishye vachanam tav"
( O Achyut) I am now positioned in "doubtless" state, now I shall do
what you say."

That is belief without doubt. Pure Belief. Divine Belief. Real
Belief.

Doubtlessly and with complete belief start your journey towards -
Vasudevah Sarvam right now. See the God in your wife and mother to
begin with. Keep on adding fast to the list. You will never fail in
your belief. Never doubt. Always believe. You can do that ! You must
do that ! Where was doubt when you said - Mother is mine ? Was there
no belief then? How simple, How easy !!

Go ahead Muraliji. Throw away all doubts. Have solid stone like
belief. You shall realise very fast - It is easy! As easy as it was
when you said - Mom is mine!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Yes ! Rush to Him like a child - just as Sathyanarain Bhaiyya. and
Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya said.

Yes Jee! Daddy is only a subject of belief. Eye can not see itself
Naga Bhaiyyaji. Can it ? Then how can part of Paramatma "know"
itself? Daddy is beyond knowledge. Even Daddy of this world is
beyond knowledge ! Any doubts there - Naga Bhaiyya?

Doubts are outputs of mind and only mind. Belief is output of what
we have other than mind - Self. Self can believe. It believed only
in the world. It can reject also the world! What then is the problem?

No - Naga Bhaiyya , this doting sister finds it incomprehensible -
"if mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us any more?"
Or "Doubts boils the faith, faith freezes the doubt" or "Whenever we
are scared by what we don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of
what we have believing what we have and doubting what we don't have"
Where is the question of belief in what we have? It is knowledge ,
then Bhaiyya? No belief there! Belief is needed only when there is
no knowledge ! Your aforesaid sentence would have been perfectly
alright had you used word "knowing" instead of "believing" in the
first part and "believing" instead of "doubting" in the second
part. "Knowing what we have, believing what we don't have".

Yes ! "working with mind is also a belief and dropping the same is
another". So all along there is belief only - isn't it ? It has to
be because belief/acceptance is power of "self". Now once you drop
mind - there are no doubts, because all doubts arise out of mind
only. Where is doubt in a child when he rushes to the loving arms of
his Mom ? Because there is no mind there - no doubt there ! But
belief/faith is always there whether you have mind or not. If you
have mind then there is doubt also. When you drop there is belief
remaining ! As simple as that !

When you drop mind, pure belief remains which beliefs takes you to
Eternal Daddy ! Just as Raja Gurdasani Bhaiyya says - approach
Paramatma as a child approaches his mother mindlessly, doubtlessly,
full of faith, belief, shraddha and vishwas !

Go ahead Naga Bhaiyya, try this doting sister's advice also.

Namaste Jee !

Jee Jee
Shashikala

----------------------------------------------------------
Your 2nd question shows how you fall prey to tricks of mind.
Remove all doubts, arguements. Feel what is live, with every breath,
heart beat of your body.
Why, yes, thats too practical & without any disguise.
Do it right now.
Thanx
Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------------------------------------
M M Purohit: If there is doubt, where is belief? If there is belief,
how there can be doubt? How "true bhajan" can be done only
by "self" ?

We always think in terms of knowns and never pay attention to the
unknown for the very reason that we cannot grasp it. Then, how can
we attain The All when we have no clue of the unknowns – we get
perplexed. We always want an answer (belief) to sustain our
existence. Cleverly we see that the mind cannot know the unknown and
come to conclude, "I act through the mind for everything. That is
not possible. Let me drop the mind. Then, I will know the
everything." We forget the fundamentals in the hurry – how can we
know the unknown without the knowing instrument, mind? Also, if the
mind is dropped, the knowns are not there with us anymore! If we are
with the mind, we are with knowns only. If we are not with the mind
we are with the unknowns only. The All should include both the
knowns and the unknowns (and if there is anything beyond). Then how
can we ever attain The All?! That is our precarious situation in
appreciating The All. Working with mind is also a belief and
dropping the same is another! When we are dissatisfied with what we
have, we chase what we don't have doubting what we have and
believing what we don't have. Whenever we are scared by what we
don't have, we shut ourselves in the cocoon of what we have
believing what we have and doubting what we don't have. Doubt boils
the faith and faith freezes the doubt. Neither position can take us
to The All. At best we keep shuttling between two poles of opposite
perceptions – fear and desire. In the frenzy of switching our modes
of association between faith and doubt in quick successions, we
never notice that the belief and doubt had never separated from each
other even for a moment. We never noticed that one appeared as the
other in quick succession. Only when we see that we are being fooled
by these two ideas, we may attain THAT. Therefore, the only way is
to treat both the polarities – faith and doubt, desire and fear,
known and unknown, and all other such dualities – equally
simultaneously so that they neutralize each other letting us to be
what we are, The All. Yet such a statement being made through the
same dual media (thoughts, speech, and writing) remains dual in
nature balanced on the fulcrum of faith and doubt and such dualities
only.

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |
Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaiva aatmaa virunute tanum swaam
||

One cannot attain The Absolute by any kind of discrimination – be it
listening to prophecies, repeated reading, educated discussions, or
excrutiatingly intellectual thinking. Untill one frets with the
biases that are triggering the very discrimination – what is good
and what is bad in a biased search for attaining the good and for
abolishing the bad – one cannot attain THAT. If one just pauses
without interfering with anything within and around, THAT is
revealed in everything within and around as such.

How can anything be not THAT? Then how can I wield the bias of faith
and doubt toward any – be it everything, be it something or be it
nothing when everything, something as well as nothing are nothing
but figments of my imagination and when anything and everything
including this imagination is just THAT?? True Bhajan is not doing
it while doing it … and doing it while not doing it … to be THAT
irerspectively whether I am doing or not doing letting the doing
lead me to itself because all the doing belongs to THAT as such.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
If you see the idol in temple as Idol then you cannot see Bagavan.
But if you see as Bagavan and shed tears, you never see idol. But
idol and Bagavan exits. There was one saint in south India known as
Kannappa. That man saw Shiva linga as Bagavan Shiva. From the idol
one eye blood was coming. The man removed his eye and placed on the
eye where blood was coming. Blood stoped. Next eye in the idol
started bleeding. This man removed his another eye to place it on
Shiva. Bagavan appeared. To day that place is in Kala Hasti.
Sri Krishna had pretended to suffer from head ache. The remedy was
that HE required any one bakthas dust from his/her feet.
Narada/Satya Bama/ other refused to give dust from their feet. They
saw Sri Krishna as Lord of Lords. But gopies new the situation and
gave dust from their feet. Gopies saw Sri Krishna as Bagavan and as
Gopala with abundant love. One can see a idol of Sri Krishna and
also see HIM as Bagavan when Niskama Prema Bakthi dwells in the mind.
One Baktha by name Poothanam in Kerala lost his son on the first
birth anniversary. But sat in front of idol of Sri Krishna and sang
a song "Gyana Paana". One can get this song by CD. In the song he
sang that "when you Krishna is as my son, why should I bother for
children". Sri Visnu sent Puspaka Viman in 1645 in which Poothanam
flew to Vaikunt like Tukaram. Here Poothanam saw idol of Sri Krishna
but with deep love as his child. Tukaram saw Panduraga idol as
Bagavan. Idol and Bagavan are one and the same. But we do not realze
it.
B.Sathyanarayan

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PREVIOUS POSTING

Hari Om

I agree with Raja Gurudasaniji. It is only we who complicate what is
otherwise an easy and instant process. We complicate it by
succumbing to the suggestions of mind that-it is difficult, it is
difficult, read chapter 6 of Gita -time, practice, gradual , -they
are tricks played by mind.

It is mind which blocks us only on Chapter 6 of Gita, on one verse
there , and does not let us explore entire 700 verses of Gita. It is
mind which suggests us that God Realisation is difficult.. Mind so
suggests because it is part of Nature. God is beyond it. It is
function of mind to suggest so- if self is positioned in nature, if
self is worldly.

But "self" out of ignorance and stupidity gets undiscriminative and
gets enticed/attracted towards nature and then quite easily falls
prey to the tricks of mind and in fact becomes slave of the mind.
Self is dishonest there. Mind is more honest- it never leaves its
cause and position - Prakriti. It is self who leaves his position
and gets himself positioned into alien Nature - and hence it is
Self who suffers.( Gita 13:21).

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------
In Bhaja Govindam, Adi Shankara says"Tvayi mayi anyatra eko
vishnuhu, vyartham kupyasi mayyasahishnuhu" In you and me and
others there is only one only Vishnu. Why are you cross with me?
Divakarosmi.
"subbanarasu divakaran"

----------------------------------------------------------
PREVIOUS POSTING
Shree Hari:
Ram Ram Murlimanohar bhaiyajee!

Bhajan is 'bhajan' and bhajan is 'bhajan' only, true or false is
ABSURD NOTION. whatever you do (any actions done by body, mind,
intellect etc) is 'bhajan' if you ACCEPT you aren't the DOER as you
are GOD'S only and God is Everything. What problems are there now?
If problems are there, you aren't God's THIS IS DEFINITE. Be God's
only and you won't find any problems ever.
Ram Ram bhaiya.
Sarvottam.
----------------------------------------------------------
I fully support the statement that god realization is most easy.
Nothing can be easier to this.
Whoever says it is rare has not gone through swamijis sayings/
explanation in sadhak sanjivani,
I strongly recomend & say that god ralization is simplest. But if we
cant realize that means we are not in our simplest form, we
complicate ourself. We should seek god like a child seek mother.
Thanx
Raja
(Raja Gurdasani)
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadak, Prohit
It is not dificult see GOD in everyone. For instance I see God in
you WHO is illuminating this question in you. If you do not see GOD
in everything, you will be seeing the world. World is subject to
changes and destruction. Where as Athuma in nondistructable. You see
world you get pleasures/worries/pain. You see GOD in everything your
mind gets purified. (Chita Sudhi)
Gnaneswar saw GOD in buffelow and buffelow spoke. Prahalad saw GOD
in pillar Narashima came. One Bramin at Puri saw Jaganath in a
person affected by leprosy, the man became Jaganath gave Dharshan.
Jayadevar saw Krishna in his wife (made her dress like krishna) he
saw Jaganatha. Tukaram saw GOD in a beggar, Panduranga appeared.
B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Your question is why Bhajan is done by self only and not by mind.

What is "true bhajan"? It is a state where the name of God is
appears sweet to you. God should be liked by you-naturally and
automatically.

"Love for God is real bhajan". This is an inner sentiment. It arises
from "self" - "acceptance by self"- due to" mineness with God". Love
for God then is natural, spontaneous and automatic. You remember
then God , without remembering, without any conscious effort at your
end. Just as , if you are Brahmin,/ married you need not remember so
always. You are that even without remembering. There after all your
deeds and actions will be automatically in accordance
with "brahminhood"/ "married".

Similarly when you have "mineness" with your child- the love for the
child is automatic. You don't have to "do" something. Your mind,
ego, intellect, body thereafter shall automatically do the deeds for
the good of that child.

Hence the real bhajan emanates from the "self/soul" - when self
establishes mineness with God. Thereafter even if you are doing
worldly duties, you in fact are doing God's work only - in other
words Bhajan only. When you have "become" of God, then your bhajan
has started. Now if you are sleeping, then who is sleeping? God's
child is sleeping! When you work , you are working on behalf of God.
When you take care of family members , you in fact are taking care
of God's children, His agents. You have connection only with God.
When you eat, you are eating God's prasad only. Where you live is
God's house only. That is bhajan.

Bhajan is not "tota ratant" (parrot like chanting-without
mineness/love) . Had that been so , all parrots must have got
liberated. In practical life also we find many "bhajananandis" who
like a parrot keep chanting God's name but still we do not witness
peace/bliss/radiance in them. Reason is they have not
established "mineness" with God. God is one of many for them. Aeons
may pass , but true realisations may not come. They will have better
lives, more peace than others, better children but that is all. Such
people normally call realisation to be a "gradual process". They get
split between world and God. World is still "mine" for them. To the
extent world is mine there is no bhajan by them. Hence primary
factor is mineness with God.

If you have established mineness with God- by accepting " I am of
God, only God is mine, nothing else is mine" - your each and every
activity is a bhajan.

Real "bhajan" is never "done". It "happens" . Your mind then will
not have to be forced to do bhajan. Automatically, it will get
directed towards God. Since it is "inert" , it will not be able to
reach God but then since Self has become of God- mind will attain
tranquillity automatically. It will stop wandering for sense
gratification- because mind's director Self is not interested in
sense gratification. . It will spontaneously chant God's name only.
Your entire body will start getting "chinmay". Each and every
action/inaction/silence etc will be bhajan only.

Hence the true bhajan is "mineness" with God and that mineness is
established by Self only through correct acceptance as above.
Automatically God will become sweet for you, love for God will be at
all times, in all deeds.

Chanting God's name alone without mineness with Him is only a good
karma, which will give you good result and with that result it will
extinguish. A married Indian traditional woman never utters the name
of her husband throughout her life, still because she has
established "mineness" with her husband- she is considered his
always. Similarly once you have established mineness with God - you
have become of God. Nothing more need to be done. Even when you are
answering nature's call or when you are taking bath- you are doing
bhajan only.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas NB
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

This refers to observations of Shri Sheila Maharaj. If you can tell
us, precisely what clouded your understanding, out of shared
messages, perhaps we can address the same. Please specifically quote
the sentences from the sadhaks, instead of general, broad
statements.

Why don't you consider and post a direct question on your areas of
doubts, to this group? May be then more clarifications shall flow in
a focused manner to remove clouds.
Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas NB
----------------------------------------------------------
Jai Hanuman

Murali Bhaiyya! The underlying theme behind the following is called
Bhajan:-

1 Main to mhare Ramjee ki, Raamjee hamara hai !
Raamjee hamara manne laage bara pyaara hai !!

( I am of my Raam and Raam is of mine. Raamji is mine, therefore He
is very loveable to me)

2 Bigree janam anek ki sudhare ab hi aaj ! Hohi Raam ko naam japi,
Tulsi taji kusamaaj

( All sins of uncountable lives come to an end, instantly , IF YOU
FIRST BECOME OF GOD and then chant His name and renounce bad company)

Hence becoming of God is of essence. Forcibly chanting His name and
then taking a stick in hand and running after the mind - Hey mind !
again you
wandering like a dog, come ,... chant , chant is not bhajan. It is an
action/karma/deed. Here self becomes slave like and runs after the
mind. He
accepts suggestion of mind that realisation is a slow and gradual
process. Mind
enjoys freedom.
Self becomes indeed helpless, out of ignorance ! Here the self
continues to be
of World. Hence mind continues to wander in the world.( Mind is a
faithful
servant. Since self is stupid, it also becomes so- a machine rarely
makes a
mistake).

Out of fear/uncertainty self also tries to establish mineness with
God while continuing mineness with world-and hence this drama of
mind !

Only once in Gita this type of Dadagiri attitude is recommended- in
case of Raaj Yoga only. There Gita grants the sadhak mineness with
the mind/body
etc for time being. There it says - it is difficult. AT ONLY ONE
PLACE IN GITA
"PRACTICE" HAS BEEN RECOMMENDED. Only one place. That is in Chapter
6.

In Bhakti Yoga essence is "mineness"-there the mind follows self
like a dog. What else mind can do when Boss, Self has changed? Self
can ignore
mind, but mind can not ignore self. Mind is inert, because of
recognition/respect by Self-it is alive. What else then mind can do?
Tape
recorder does a better chanting of name- does it get liberated-
Bhaiyyaji? What
about parrot? There is no point in harping excessively upon "naam
smaran"
without becoming of God.

Simple formula:- Mere to Girdhar Gopal, Doosaro na koi
When you firmly decide the above for you-your all actions become
bhajan only.

Yatkaroshi, yadashnashi,yajjuhoshi dadasi yat! Yattapasyasi Kaunteya
tatkurushva madarparna !! ( Gita 9 : 26)

What ever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you give, whatever
austerities you
perform - offer to Me.

When you have become of God- the offerring is automatic. The "doer"
( Karta) has
become of God - what has remained to be done ?? Each of action of
giving, doing,
eating etc has become Bhajan-automatically.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Purohitji,

I wish to supplement my earlier posting.

May I give a very simple experiment for you to try. Place a coin at
the bottom of the bucket full of water. Stir the water. Try if you
can see the coin. Now allow the water to become still. Again see if
you can now see the coin. Stirred water is like a stirred mind and
still water is like a still mind. In both cases the coin is there
but in one case, we can not see it and in another, we can clearly
see it.

It is the mind that is the curtain (Avaran) between body and 'Self'.
So long as this curtain remains, in my judgement, realisation is not
possible. It does not matter what path we choose to get rid of this
curtain.

I do not know if you have heard of Shri Hanuman Prasad ji Poddar. He
was popularly addressed as 'Bhaiji'. He is a known 'Premi Bhakt' of
our time. Maharaj ji (Swamiji) was also very close to him. He used
to say "Jahan Man, Wahan Hum" (We are where our mind is).

A.H.Dalmia
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Shri Murli Manohar Purohit

In the verse, Please read "rare" as "adbhut (in Hindi)" . Please do
not get discouraged by the word "rare" ; that is only a mishap of
translation.

On the contrary our dear Shri Krishna, our revered Shri Krishna has
made enough references in the Gita which actually mean that the Gita
is meant for all humans and equally to all without any
discrimination ; whether rich or poor, whether powerful or weak ;
whether male or female ; whether paapi or otherwise ;
whether "ordinary" or extra-ordinary . . . . . .

Arjun is "anuraag", symbolic of "affectionate devotion" ; Shree
Krishna is calling the Arjun within all of us . For further
clarification, may I add, Shree Krishna has addressed Arjun
as "Bharat" at times and as "Parth (friend)" at other times.

Hence please do not interpret that the Gita is restricted only
to "rare" . .. . . Please do pick the Gita . . . that is THE
scripture you may read and follow ; further may I suggest to you the
YATHARTH GITA by Shri Adganandji.

Sailesh Kumar Mohta

----------------------------------------------------------

IST FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: I am confused with contradictory advice. Shri
Sarvottamji says "disown the mind" , while A H Dalmiaji says "use
the mind and remember from mind". Sir what should I do ? Should I
disown the mind or use it? Is it possible to remember from mind? Did
Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or self?
Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner. MM Purohit

----------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL QUESTION: Is Gita 7:19 (All is God) is it or is it not for
ordinary people like
me ? What should be my goal of life? Which Scripture according to you
should I read and believe in? Bharatiji in recent posting has advised
to see everywhere God/self only, what do I do ? If it is rare to be
able to realize this, then what is the point in wasting my time in
seeing in everyone God only ?

Please advice me and oblige. At your lotus feet and of Bhagwaan, Sir

Murli Manohar Purohit
----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

I agree with Mike fully. To experience "Vasudevah Sarvam" ( All is
God) - one has to take shelter of "open eye meditation" and that is
the stage to which Arjuna reached at the end of Gita. It is called
in Hindi- "Sahaj Sadhana". In this no nose is to be pressed, no eyes
are to be closed, no ears are to be blocked, no breaths are to be
controlled,- no practice, no asanas, no restraints, no efforts, no
actions, no controls - simply shelter of mind, intellect, ego, body(
inert) is to be renounced. ( Luckily these elements are already and
continuously renouncing you ! )

There is no other way except Sahaj Sadhana ( open eye meditation)
for a striver of" Vasudevah Sarvam". If you use mind there, you will
not be able to perceive Paramatma in a stone or in poison or in
death or in dirt ! Only by faith and bhava (inner expression) , you
can see God there- no other way!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------
Re: Murli Purohit

Jai Shree Krishna

Muraliji. Sarvottamji is right. To my knowledge and belief, no MOM
can ever create a child who can ever succeed in challenging /
refuting / successfully proving Taat Shree ( Swamiji Ramsukhdasji
Maharaj) to be wrong.

Sarvottamji has rightly quoted Swamiji. He is right.

I can claim to have read/heard millions and trillions of words of
Swamiji. I never found His sayings ever to be even controversial -
leave aside , doubtful - to say " wrong" is out of question !

Rajendra J Bohra
Narayana Narayana

----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Hanuman

Murli Bhaiyya ! Did not I tell you " not to use mind" ? Any way ,
because you " used" your mind you are now "confused" ! It is more
difficult a machine Bhaiyya than machine controlling an air craft !
Zoom !! In a fraction of a second this mind can travel from Japan to
Africa ! ! Not even a second ! Why , Bhaiyya, you are hell bent on
this machine? In future , make it a point not "to use your mind"
where such serious issues are getting discussed.

You are relying on controlling this machine?? Muraliji- have you
lost logic, Bhaiyya ? There is an element called as "conscience",
is that element sleeping in you ? - Millions and trillions have
tried to control mind in the past, Bhaiyyaji - none succeeded in
straightening out this curly tail of dog-called "mind". Why don't
you better place it in a deep freezer, not to be used till there is
some worldly need ? You are getting carried away by worldly advices !

Sarvottam Bhaiyya is right - absolutely right Swamiji is there
behind him. Don't worry about throwing the mind in a dust bin. How
can you get "imperishable" element by using "perishable" element?
How can you get "unchangeable" thing by using "changeable" thing,
you can? How can you get "sentient" by using "inert"? How can you
reach the "cause" using the "effect"? How can an eye see itself? How
can the "seer" become the "seen" ?

Tell me, HOW CAN ??

Raam Raam Raam ! You must "disown" mind , Murali Bhaiyya, you should
not "use" it ! "Bhajans" are done by mind - sheer nonsense. Who gets
liberated?

Raam Raam Raam ! Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Shri Purohitji,

According to Gitaji, there are three major paths to achieve God.
These are called 1. Gyan Yog, 2. Karm Yog, 3. Bhakti Yog. All
ultimately lead to God. There can be no doubt about it. The choice
of path is not for an individual to advise but for an individual to
assess based on his own nature, aptitude and liking. Having chosen a
path, the sadhak must stick to it for cosiderable time to get
results. Hence it is important for you to carefully read Gitaji,
assimilate what God is saying, what your fellow sadhaks have said
based on their individual understanding / experience and what
finally decide what appeals to you most.

Disowning the mind comes in the category of Gyan Yog and Nam Smaran
comes in the category of Bhakti Yog.

A.H.Dalmia
----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Advice given to Purohitji by Sarvottamji is absolutely correct,
authentic and supported not only by Great Saint of the rare class of
Swamiji but by all Vedas, Upanishads, Ramayana , Yoga Vashishtha
and all other major Scriptures of Eternal Sanatana Dharma. Purohitji
can blindly follow the given advice.

Purohitji may note that one simply CAN NOT realise Paramatma or
experience Vasudevah Sarvam ( which is even a higher state )
by "using" the mind, intellect or body. NEVER ! I repeat -
N E V E R !!

If you can reach/grasp Paramatma by mind then He will be graspeable
by any machine also ! ! ! If we subscribe to the views that

1-mind can reach to Paramatma, and/or 2- remembrance / bhajan is
made by mind, and/or 3-control of mind and running after the mind
and forcing the mind to think about God is essential, and/or 4-
purification of antahkarana is a pre requisite for realisation,
and/or 5-efforts are necessary for realising Him, and/or 6- you
must "do" something to realise Him and/or etc etc

then at least 50/100 verses of Gitaji will be proved wrong-what to
say of other Scriptures !!

Mind is inert, ever changing and part of Nature ( apara prakriti)
and it is categorically declared in Gita that Paramatma is beyond
nature( Gita 15:18). One cannot reach Paramatma by "using" the
mind /body etc , one can reach Him only by "renouncing" the
mind/body etc. THIS VIEW IS FINAL ON THE SUBJECT. Mind is given for
use when you "act" . God is realised only when you "do not act" !
How mind then can help you?

Poor mind cannot even know its own cause , Prakriti , how it can
help you in knowing the root cause of the cause of even Prakriti ? (
Many times mind even fails to explain its own functions, logics as
to why it acted in a particular manner at a particular time ).

Here are short answers to your specific questions-

1-True Bhajan is NEVER done by mind, it is always done by "SELF"- I
repeat NEVER !.

2-Arjuna's remembrance in Gita 18:73 arose from. "SELF" not from
mind.

3-You should "disown" the mind rather than "use" the mind.

You may feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------

What should be my goal of life?

Can anyone define what a goal means without any ambiguity? Generally
goal is the end point for an action as we perceive. Can there be any
end point for any thing? Therefore, the very concept of goal is
quite tentative in nature. Harping on it and chasing it restlessly
is an illusion. As one can never reach the intended goal of drinking
water by chasing a mirage, one can never attain the intended goal of
being happy by chasing any number of goals. The goals are the
biggest hurdles in one's spiritual progress.

"My" goal is a bigger illusion. First of all goal is of questionable
tenure in itself. Even if it is tentatively accepted, it always
resides outside me! Then how can I ever say it is mine as if it is
under my absolute control?!

I cannot agree there is a goal even for life as it extends beyond
time and space boundaries – "yacchanyattrikaalaateetam tadapyomkaara
eva". If the question is limited to the perceived life span of an
individual, the goal belongs to the life not to the individual.
Then, the only certain goal of life is The Death.

If at all I would like to claim "my goals", the only one worthy of
pursual is The Death – the death of all my goals, purposes,
aspirations – collective and categorical termination all my
pretentions of owning objects, actions, thoughts and desires.

Respects.

Naga Narayana
----------------------------------------------------------
-Shree Hari-

The nature of mind was dealt with in some detail not long ago.

Murli Bhaiyya, in response to you question below, I offer some
thoughts.
"Did Arjuna in the last chapter, remember through use of mind or
self? Please provide me with clear answer. I am a beginner." When
The mind rests in the Self, one is said to have gained a yoga
level [BG 6.18].
Fixing the mind can takes one through inward states to the Knowledge
of God, the Supreme End [BG 5.17].
Yoga should be had when the mind is restrained by practice and
detachments [BG 6.35].

There are some that practice open eyed meditation, simply become the
observer they do not look, they are detached, where then is the mind.

Remember also, we all approach the Divine by many diverse ways, Lord
Krishna has blessed them all. Do not judge yourself a beginner. Who
can judge who is, or is not closer to the Divine Truth. It is unwise
to confuse knowledge with knowing, ( knowledge through
experience).

With Respects and Divine Love.

Mike
(Mike Keenor)
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Shri Murali Manohar JI,

When all we do even by way of a living is dedicated as
"Krishnapanamastu" as recommended by Shri Ramakrishna Parahamsa., no
activity will be waste of time. When we dedicate activity to the
Supreme Almighty we are absolved of the consequences.
Subbanarasu Divakaran
----------------------------------------------------------
Which Scripture according to you should I read and believe in?

When I am not ready to correct myself, no scriptures can help. With
my beliefs, I may get a consolation … a temperoray symptomatic
relief … but not a cure. Cure for my miseries remain aloof to all
external agencies since I safegaurd it leaving no access to anything
else. I even pretend I lost the key myself when critical scrutiny is
attempted. It is all upto me to acknowledge the presence of the key,
to make up my mind to open the safe, to choose clean up the safe, to
clean up the safe without any hesitation, and to dare throw away the
safe itself. No scriptures can help me. In fact nothing can ever
help me … unless I wield the resolve toward the same.
Yes, if I resolve all my internal conflicts to proceed with an
undeterred resolution, everything I come across becomes great
scripture revealing The Absolute. Any scripture will do … ONLY IF I
wield the resolve required.

What should I believe in? No belief can help in this process because
belief can never exist without doubt. However, we cannot act without
a belief. Yes, a belief is required to start – that I have the key.
Also, we can never move away from what we are with without a doubt.
Yes a doubt is required that it could be the time to get the damn
key afterall since everything outside this so called safe seem to
throw only miseries at me sometime as bare thorns and sometime
thorns hidden in flowers. Then, another belief is required – that I
can clean up the safe; backed with a doubt, cleaning this safe could
probably the solution. Finally, a belief is required – that I can
throw away the safe; backed with a doubt why should I keep this darn
thing after all. Once all beliefs are mitigated (with which all
doubts are automatically dissolved), one may realize that there was
indeed no key because there was no safe as well. But till then,
we "believe" we have the safe and grope around for its key. Mostly,
all our goals are hinged on this groping around for this key. Till
we grope around we are subjected to the wraths of beliefs and
doubts. There is no escape route but to face them; because, every
attempt to escape multiplies them and they swarm me more ferociously
like mad street dogs. Inviting help from outside seem to aggrevate
the situation further till I am on the verge of escaping. But once I
take the resolve to face them on their turf, help pours in from all
the directions … and they flee in terror to the oblivion, their
abode.

Therefore, my suggestion is … believe in yourself if at all
you "have to" believe in something. Then, you may have a chance.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------------------------

Jai Shree Krishna

Very good Jee! If it is rare why to waste time? No Jee! Do waste
time in more important tasks Jee. But find out first whether that
task is more important than this Jee. Wastage of time in seeking -
Vasudevah Sarvam! Where does the brain ( mind ) not take us?

Murli Bhaiyya. If you are serious first stop using mind at all. In
Vasudevah Sarvam this is first step.

Mind is not meant for use on Vasudevah Sarvam related issues- simply
keep the mind in deep freezer. It is useless even otherwise on
spiritual matters.Don't give any trouble Bhaiyya to this machine. It
can travel only in past and future , while Vasudevah is a subject
matter of present. Vasudevah is beyond it, Bhaiyya. It is
fundamental. Just don't get carried away by the mind and people with
mind. Rely on your conscience instead. Nothing you will achieve if
you use mind. There is no shortage of mindful ( sharp intellectuals)
people in His regime. He wants "bhavas" which poor mind can not
generate ! " Bhavgraahi Janardan" ( God looks at your inner
expressions) !

By the way why do you consider yourself to be ordinary person? Are
you not son of the king of all the kings? First believe that and
confirm. Then only you will get glimpse of path ahead.

Regarding Scripture, if you have mind more than heart then Read
Gitaji. If you have heart more than mind then read Ramayana. But
Gita also read after surrendering to it. Best way always is not to
use mind at all. Surrender mind to the God. He only can straighten
out this curly tail of dog, Jee .

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------
question in consideration is

who is gita for?

gita mahatmaya verse 7 says:

ekam shastram devaki putra gitam
eko devo devaki putra eva
eko mantras tasya namani yani
karmapy ekam tasya devasya seva

In this present day, people are very much eager to have one
scripture, one GOD, one religion and one occupation.therefore, ekam
shastram devaki putram gitam: let there be one scripture , one
common scripture for the whole world-Bhagavad Gita and let there be
one occupation only- service to the supreme personality of godhead
sri Krishna.

your servant

piyush gupta
----------------------------------------------------------

I do not know anything but a lot of thoughts here are convoluted and
confusing for anyone wishing to understabd "Who am I". Teaching of
our real nature should be done in a systematic and methodical way so
as to gain true understanding. Simply jumping back and forth and
using terms which by a qualified and trained teacher have not been
unpicked and unfolded so as to be understood, clouds our
understanding.

Sheila Maharaj

----------------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari:
Ram Ram!
Bandhu! What happened with me following Swamiji, will surely happen
to you in no time. You needn't wait for it to happen. Please read
below and do what you find for you:
"what do you want?" asked Swamiji.
"Vasudev: Sarvam" I replied (and perhaps it is your quest, too).
"It is and you have it." Swamiji said.
"But I don't get it." I said.
"I said It IS and you have It." Swamiji said.
"Jee Swamijee." I could say.
"Bhaiye, it is your mind who is in between, DISOWN THE MIND. Mind is
jad, don't take it as 'yours'. Instantly you will be Vasudev:
Sarvam." Swamiji said
And what happened then is beyond description.
If you think Swamiji gave me 'the path' please follow Swamiji.
Scriptures? Swamiji directed me to read Sadhak Sanjeevanee. I know
NO OTHER SCRIPTURE.
Ram Ram!
Sarvottam
----------------------------------------------------------
All is God (Vasudeva Sarvam) Is this for Everyone?

I understand that this question is whether the prescription "All is
God" is for every one or not. Nothing is for every one. As Krishna
says one deserves only what one understands and one receives only
what one adapts. As Bhagavan Vyasa says, "NEVER PRACTICE SOMETHING
THAT IS ALIEN TO YOU! DIEING AS WHAT YOU ARE IS FAR BETTER IMBIBING
ALIEN BEHAVIORS!!" All the prescriptions from the scriptures for
self correction are variant and are designed to suit persons
according to their nature.

But, "All is God" is neither a "prescription" nor can
be "practiced". It is The Reality. If you think otherwise, God
remains a notion, a belief, an illusion to you! God is Everything –
even The Nothing cannot be excluded from It. Insistence on any
specific form, force or concept remains a questionable acceptance
regarding God. Since God cannot be objectified, It can neither be
prescribed nor can It be practiced! IT IS. That is ALL.

When God is All, there is nothing left to say "for whom?". Of course
it is everyone and everything. That is the fact irrespective of
anybody's notions – one may say yes and another may say no. It does
not matter. Yasyaamatm tasya matam – One who says "no" can be aware
of only the negated for sure if at all one is aware of anything at
all. Vignyatam avijaanataam – all one perceives is rooted in IT
irrespective of whether one understands or not, whether one
acknowledges or not, whether one accpets or not. The very cognition
collapses in the absence of The Self, The I. Matam yasya na veda
sah – One who says "yes" has no clue of what is being asserted.
Avignyaatam vijaanataam – THAT remains a concept or a notion or an
illusion in one who insists on THAT.

Therefore, the question "whether ALL IS GOD is for everyone?" is
invalid in itself.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.
----------------------------------------------------------
God is within you and everywhere. He is all pervasive. To realise
this you have to meditate.
Hari Shanker Deo

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Shri Purohitji,

The fact that we are all human beings, it is clear that God wants us
to realise him in this birth. Hence there can be no doubt as to what
should be our goal in life. "God Realisation".

Greatest scripture, I can say with confidence, is Gitaji. If you
want to read scriptures, this is it. If you decide to do so, please
buy commentaries on Gitaji by name 'Tattva Vivechini' and 'Sadhak
Sanjivini'. Both are Gita Press publications. Both are thick volumes
and both must be read slowly and carefully (no rapid reading).

When ever we embark on a path to anywhere, we always have to make a
beginning. Hence if we wish to choose the path to God realisation,
we have to make a beginning somewhere. This in no way can be
considered as waste of time. Truthfully, it is the only time well
spent.

Now, where to begin? The first thing to embark on this path is to
cultivate a desire to realise God. If that exists, then the next
step would be intensify that desire to realise God by promising to
oneself that I will not desire for anything worldly, I will only
long for realising God. Having done that, start 'Nam Smaran'. Nam
Smaran does not merely mean chanting of God's name. It involves much
more. Emphasis is on the word 'Smaran'. What is Smaran? It means 'to
remember'. How do we remember? We remember from the MIND. Hence,
when we do Nam Smaran, we must ensure that we continuously, during
this period, remember God. Every time we attempt that, our mind goes
back into the world. Everytime, we must bring it back to God.How
does the world enter our mind? It enters either through 'Desires' or
through our 'Gyan Indriyas' particularly eyes and ears. Hence during
Nam Smaran, we need to Chant God's name (It need not necessarily be
loud. It can be done by moving the tongue but without opening the
mouth. Then it will be silent) Hear God's name in our mind
See the form of God in our mind. This is where we begin. At no
stage we need to get complacent.

A.H.Dalmia
----------------------------------------------------------
"Why waste my time deliberating on `ALL IS GOD'?"

Agreed, don't waste "your time". Then can you "use" that time for
something good? The concept "use" is intriguing in itself. It
implies whether one received "enough" happiness in return
of "sacrificing" one's time. Even from this mundane perspective,
have we ever applied overselves to be really happy over the time "we
sacrifice"? The answer is surely bleak – if we had, there should
have been no trace of miseries in us by now! In our own ignorant
appreciation, we do nothing but "waste our time".

Now comes the more apalling concept "MY TIME"! Where is "my time"?
Can I ever own time? In that case I should have the authority to
manipulate it. The scientists are waiting for such a chance so that
all the fantasies of freezing time, reverting time, extending life
span, expand happy moments, erase unhappy moments, etc. can be
realized. When something is really not mine, what right do I have
to "use" or "waste" it? Even if I claim, would it become true??

The concept of "my precious time", "my precious things", etc. are
nothing but the self-significance, self-importance and self-
promotion that our egos indulge in their lust for survival. Unless
these notions are conquered, one cannot attain The Truth – ALL IS
GOD AND GOD IS ALL.

If you want to entertain such appreciation, move forward. Else, the
time will definitely move forward … as always.

Respects.

Naga Narayana

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