Tuesday, September 30, 2008

[gita-talk] Re: This Body is Not Mine

There is confusion in this mind regarding "my body is not mine and i
am not the doer". How far can/should one stretch the idea? At one
level this seems appropriate and I try to identify with it. On the
other extreme, if this body is not mine then does it mean that it is
ok to allow a man who fancies this body, may be this mind too;
access to this body? Where does one draw the line? Where does this
stand in respect to societal norms of monogamy?

Malika S
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NEW POSTING

Some messages related to this posting were lost today due to power
failure. Sorry! From Gita Talk Moderator. Ram Ram
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Hari Om

This human body has been described in scriptures in contrasting
manner. In Ramayana on one hand it has been described as "adham
sarira" ( worst of all other bodies), on other hand it has also been
described as "badi hi durlabh maanush dehi, det eesh binu hetu
sanehu" ( Human body is VERY VERY rare, given without any selfless
motive by God out of affection). The question of Mallika also
requires us to comment reg line of demarcation. Answer is "if you
consider this body to be mine , for me and me, then it is worst of
your enemies. There cant be a dirtier thing than this. But if you
don't consider it to be mine/me/for me" then it is a temple, a gift
of God to you. I will present to Dear Sadhaks both sides of the
coin. First let us take why it is a temple. It is indeed a temple,
because, in its functioning all principles of Karma Yoga, Jnana
Yoga, Bhakti Yoga and Equanimity are visible clearly. But you can
understand them and make use of them, only when you don't consider
this body to be me/mine/for me. Consider the following:

THE HUMAN BODY AND KARMA YOGA
JUST AS : Parts of the body are indivisible with the body as a
whole. They are not separate from the body. SIMILARLY: For a Karma
Yogi all bodies in the world, including, of course his own body, are
part of one SINGLE body. He considers all as part of one indivisible
world and then behaves as parts of body behave with each other!

JUST AS : Parts of your body never distinguish between a good and
bad act. For example, your hands never show a preference to plucking
of flowers as against washing the dirty parts of body. There is
no "ME" or "MINE" in the body parts. There is no ego. Each part
helps the other so that there is no imbalance. Each part is for the
entire body. That is how body survives. If parts of body start
distinguishing and start comparing "right" and "duties" then what
will happen- except disintegration, disease and death ? They are
always "Dutiful" to the body as a whole. No rights. SIMILARLY: When
you get selfish ( me/mine) , you in fact create an imbalance in the
world. Like your body if you stop distinguishing/ correlating rights
and duties , the world will become better and healthy. In karma
yoga, the sadhak renounces his "rights" and does his duty. There is
no good act or bad act for a sadhak. Everything is duty. Just as it
is for different parts of body.

JUST AS : Inspite of the parts of your body being separate from each
other but in essence they are one. If any part is hurt, you consider
the body has been hurt. SIMILARLY: All bodies/creatures in this
world are in essence ONE only. A Karma Yogi does not distinguish
between two bodies. For all he has one motto- SERVE, SERVE, and
SERVE- selflessly, without expecting anything in return.

JUST AS : There are different parts in your body . Head, nose, ears,
toungue, hands, legs, eyes etc. While our "affection" with each part
is SAME but our "conduct" with each part is different. For example,
if we touch any other person by legs, we beg his pardon but not when
we touch him by hands. We salute other by head or hands and not by
legs. When a hand touches say face , we donot wash it, but if it
touches anus , we wash it. SIMILARLY: A Karma Yogi, deals with
different people/bodies/ creatures in different manner but
his "Affection" with all is SAME.

JUST AS : Sometimes your teeth cut/chew your tongue while eating.
Then there is excruciating pain . But you never get angry with
teeth. You never think in terms of punishing them. Why? Because both
are part of the same body. SIMILARLY: A Karma Yogi never considers
any one to be bad, because he knows that both good and bad are part
of one world only, and he has to serve the world- as a sadhak.

JUST AS : Difference between eye and leg is immense-
size/nature/character/function/positioning etc wise. Eye is a sense
organ. Leg is an organ of action. Still if a thorn enters the leg,
there are tears in your eyes. If any dust particle enters your eyes,
there is trembling in your legs ! SIMILARLY: We cant separate our
own body with the other bodies of this world. Either we should
ignore both or we should consider both as one. A Karma Yogi deals
with both in a similar manner. That is honesty. A Jnana Yogi,
ignores the both. For a Bhakti Yogi- THERE is only ONE , there iare
no two.

JUST AS : When any part of the body is hurt, the other parts,
without any summoning automatically come in action to help the hurt
part. No request is necessary. SIMILARLY: A Karma Yogi forms a
“unity” with the world and all the bodies of the world. He
automatically, without any pride, naturally, serves the hurt.

JUST AS : When you wash your face by hands, there is no pride
generated in hands. Hands never give signals- Look how great we are!
They never ask special favour for themselves ! SIMILARLY: A karma
yogi never gets proudy and seeks reciprocation for what he does for
the world.

JUST AS : Parts of a female body give pleasure to opposite sex , not
to the female herself. Parts of male body give pleasure to female
body , not to male himself. Milk of mother is not for herself, but
for child. Gestures of child give pleasure to mother, not to child
itself. Everything in body has been designed for others. For body as
a whole. Injection pain is to the skin, but benefit is to whole
body. SIMILARLY: A Karma Yogi knows that whatever he has got , is
for service to "others" not for himself.

JUST AS : If any hurt portion of body heals, there is benefit to
entire body. SIMILARLY: A karma yogi reaches to the world at large,
by his service, bhaav and sentiments. He helps one and all.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
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Dear Sadaks,
On Anubhuti one sant has given full text. His name is Thirumoolar.
He wrote 3000 verses known as Thirumoolar Thirumandhiram
(Thrirumoolar Sacred text). He lived for 3000 years on hills near
Salam Tamilnadu hills knows as "Shidhar Malai" (Shidhar Hills). To
day his temple stand there with 7 well with water at anytime remains
at 7 ft. Bathing there removes many diseases. I have seen poeople
cured and experienced myself. He was great Shiva Baktha among 63
sant of Shivites. One rich gentle man fron Delhi affected with Blood
cancer with eminent doctors from Appollo, AIMs gave dead line as 6
months life. He stayed in these hills and took medicines of leaves
given by wandering sant. He got cured completely. Doctors was in
Dismay. Indian Express team was sent to Siddhar Hills and report was
published in paper with photos.
B.Sathyanarayan

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PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

In God Realisation - these principles do not give accurate results.
Scriptures are full of describing how so and so person did "tapasya"
for so many centuries or birth times. We don't find much references
of "quick realisation" except in some verses of Gitaji etc. Stress
is on the purification of Antahkarana. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj
alone and Lord Krishna in Gita have stated it is easier and quicker
than normally presumed. There are cases like of Prahlad, Dhruva etc
but majority suggest "long drawn" process. Hence if some one applies
principle of SHRUTI in determining truth reg timing required for God
Realisation the answer will be "very very long time"

This answer obviously is not correct.

Yukti principle basically involves mind and intellect. It is clear
from Scriptures and experience that element called God is beyond
mind and intellect . No amount of logic and rationale can help one
in the same. God is a matter of "belief" and not
of "logic/rationale/mind" . Mind will always suggest God Realisation
is difficult, long drawn process.

Answer obviously is not correct.

On "Anubhuti" yardstick again, none of us has any direct experience.
Conscience is God Himself but respect to it is necessary. Alone
voice of conscience , even if you respect it - does not make all
three determine the truth regarding the time required for God
Realisation. Still "anubhuti" gives better results in this area than
Shruti and Yukti- because of conscience.

Main obstacle is Yukti.

This according to me is the sole exception to the divine principles
of Shruti/Yukti/Anubhuti . Though a deliberation in this regard by
fellow followers of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj - like Mira Dasji,
Sarvottamji, Rajendraji, Mike Keenor, even Shashikalaji, Raja
Gurudasaniji, Papruniaji and other die hard believers of many many
Gita verses like 9:31 etc may by arguments in this regard prove this
exception too to be wrong. This time I am on the other side of
table. But I will be very happy to get proved wrong on this count.

Apart from above, in my humble opinion these 3 principles have
universal application in determining truth/duty/ ideal karmas and
helping us all in taking correct decisions in day to day life.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
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Dear Friends,

I have been reading this correspondence for some time. May I attempt
to respond to this particular query!

In philosophy, there are two levels - Vyavaharik & Parmarthik.
Practical & Spiritual may be some where near the real Hindi/ Sanskrit
meanings.

At the spiritual level, we are all one, body does not belong to us,
we are atma & not body, etc. This has a particular field or scope.

At practical level, we live in this body, we have to eat, drink &
support this body. At practical level, we have to follow some
restrictions/Samyam etc.

While total celibacy is not meant for Gruhasthas, restricting sex
within the married life /monogamy is necessary for good spiritual
growth.

Hope, this answers the query.

For details, Adi Shankaracharya had given illustration of the
difference between practical & spiritual.

If a mad elephant is charging towards you, you have to run & save
yourself. You can't say that under Advaita philosophy, me & elephant
are one & I need not be afraid of the elephant.
If we mix up spiritual understanding in such practical matters,
disasters may be caused.

Regards,
Rashmin Sanghvi
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Even though this question was quite interesting, all the answers
sound very mundane and a bit preachy.

I don't think the Gita is so much about morals but more about
enlightenment through thinking. Unlike other religious documents it
does not talk down to people. It makes them think.

The question that Malika has, cannot be answered so easily. Given
the right circumstances, this would not be wrong. Draupadi was
married to 5 men, Krishna had so many wives including Radha who was
purportedly married.

If Gita was a moralistic document, it wouldn't have much value. It
would become like any other religious document.

The right and wrong of a situation has to be decided by the person.

The mind has to be capable of separating yourself from your own body
and making an objective judgment in a situation, the same that you
would if you were not the person making the decision.

Chetan Temkar
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shree Hari
ram ram
Chetanji, it will be helpful, in future to point out speicific
elements that you consider mundane and preachy, as opposed to a
generalized statement. Ram Ram
Gita Talk Moderator
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PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

According to Swamiji, at present there are no obstacles, to fulfill
a husband / wife's dharma (which includes monogamy) i.e.
righteousness. Each one is entirely and forever independent in
following righteousness. It is only when actions are done against
the scriptural injunctions, that scriptures, dharma, societal
obligations etc. are an obstacle.

Regarding the issue of abortion, as Vyasji has said, the lesser
spoken the better. Even Swamiji was often strictly instructed not
to speak much on this subject. he said he did not know how to
explain these things, who would listen, who to tell these to? There
is nothing that pained him more than destroying one that is
completely helpless and at your mercy (i.e. abortion) and killing of
cows and other beings. What to do? Who to tell? Yet, it
pained him deeply, the atrocities, that are taking place today, that
did not even take place in the kingdom of Ravana. As already
clearly stated by other sadhaks, Swamiji gave a simple ruling - DO
NOT DO TO OTHERS, WHAT YOU DO NOT WISH FOR YOURSELF. That simple
statement, says it all. Nothing remains to be said after this.

Swamiji said that any action, that becomes an obstacle in the
upliftment, in the betterment, in salvation of another being, is
SINFUL action. Now what to speak of not giving another soul an
opportunity to be born as a human, the rarest form of birth, and the
only form of birth where salvation, benediction, freedom from birth
and death is possible? He has clearly stated to stay away from
such "GHOR PAAP". This ignorance must be wiped out. And we must
proactively work towards this awareness, as most of these types of
sins are purely from lack of awareness, and the two desires - 1)
sense enjoyments (BHOG) and 2) desire for more - i.e. greed
(SANGRAHA).

Hope this helps, thank you for raising this point,

Meera Das
Ram Ram

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I am saddened by this query. Let it be clarified that this body is
made of panch tatva---prithvi, jal, agni, akash and vayu and belongs
to Ishwar---who is the lord of prakriti (nature) which consists of
these five tatvas or elements. Correct knowledge of metaphysical
truths should be accompnied by correct code of action which is
dharma. Dharma encompasses morality and duties. I am the soul , not
the body or the mind or the intellect. The body or mind or intellect
are only means or contrivances available to me to perform karma. I
should perform karma which is morally sound or according to
principles of dharma. Bhagwan Manu has prescribed monogamy under
normal circumstances for human beings and that should be followed as
a code of action.

Let incomplete knowledge or semi-truths not take us into the realm
of perversion.

Atul Sehgal
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PRIOR POSTING
Hari Om

This refers to Q of MM Purohitji.

Shruti ,Yukti and Anubhuti are three golden divine principles to
determine truth, duty and ideal karma for human beings. These
principles have emanated out of Scriptures and are believed to made
by God Himself. They are universal in application and have a single
exception only. That exception is - God Realisation . These 3
principles do not apply on determining the time required for God
Realisation- as Laws made by God naturally do not apply on God
Himself Just As Laws made by a Parliament do not apply on
Parliament itself. ( Else how it can change it ? )

These three principles require you to first enquire about any
question by referring to Scriptures/views derived out of history or
historical facts pertaining to the subject/ views of learned or
elderly persons / views of Saints and Sages - What SHRUTI/ experts/
history says.

Then deliberate regarding the logic and rationale of the proposed
decision. See if that is logical conclusion. Reasons,
appropriateness etc should be established. The decision should not
defy logic. What your mind/intellect says.
That is Yukti.

Then comes your past experience on the subject. If there is no past
experience with you , check with people you believe in etc. Also
check up with your conscience , if it meets with it. What your
heart/ gut feeling/ experience says- Anubhuti..

If all three establish in affirmative- you can fearlessly decide in
favour of proposed decision. That is truthful. That is right and
correct decision.

To be concluded in the next posting.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
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Priya Sadhaks

This refers to observations of Dr Thomas stating that standards for
human conduct etc should be different for ordinary people and for
non ordinary people. He also observed that monogamy is not supported
by most of the scriptures/religions.

You have desired a more enlightened discussion on the subject.

In order to do that, and before getting deeper into the subject -
Can you elaborate further regarding your views on the subject Dr
Thomas? Can you pin point some religions or some holy texts where
this distinction between ordinary humans and other humans in respect
of such matters of standard conduct has been provided for and has
been recommended ? Can you further let us know as to how and why in
your view monogamy is not supported by most of the scriptures /
religions ? Who qualifies in your view to fall in the category of
ordinary people and other than ordinary people? Why ? Can you
support further this with some reference to some religions and some
holy texts?

M M Purohit

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PREVIOUS POSTING

Jai Hanuman

To me Monogamy is religion.

TUMHI MERE MANDIR TUMHI MERI POOJA TUMHI DEVATA HO !

MAIN HOON EK CHHOTI SI MAATI KI GUDIYA, TUMHI PRAAN MERE TUMHI ATMA
HO !!

O Dear Hubby ! You alone are my temple, you alone are my worship,
you alone are my God ! I am a small doll made of dust , you are the
life force in it , you are the soul in it.

TUMHI MERE MAATHE KI BINDIYAA KI JHILMIL , TUMHI MERE HAATHON KE
GAJARO KI MANZIL !

KOI MERI AANKHON SE DEKHE TO SAMAJHE KE TUM MERE KYAA HO !!

O Dear Husband ! You are the glitter of my Bindiyaa. You are the
goal of my bangles. If some body looks into my eyes, one will
understand as to who you are for me.

JIDHAR DEKHATI HOON UDHAR TUM HI TUM HO , NA JAANE MAGAR KIN
KHYAALON MAIN GUM HO !

MUZHE DEKH KAR TUM JARA MUSKARAADO , NAHIN TO MAIN SAMJHOONGI MUJHSE
KHAFA HO !!

Where ever I see , I find you there only. Today you appear to be
lost in some thoughts. Please smile at me or else I will presume
you are annoyed with me.

BAHUT RAAT BEETI CHALO MAIN SULAADON, PAWAN CHHEDE SARGAM MAIN LORI
SUNAADOO !

TUMHE DEKHKAR YE KHYAAL AA RAHA HAI, KE JAISE FARISHTAA KOI
SO RAHA HO

O Darling ! A lot of the night has come to pass. Please
sleep while air is rhythmically flowing and I am singing for you.
When I see you peacefully sleeping, a thought comes in my mind that
an Angel is sleeping.

Of course, Murali Bhaiyya this body is temple. Mike Bhaiyya, Madanji
Kaura , Sathyanarainji, Sarvottamji are absolutely right. No doubts
on that.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
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Hari Om

Before I continue with my compilation from Swamiji's books
of "direct life personal experiences" let me devote today's posting
in replying to Papruniaji and Muraliji. To my mind, this body is
indeed a temple. How can such a gift which has been so lovingly
given by Paramatma to His children for such a pious cause of "God
Realisation" – be anything less than a temple? Where is the doubt in
that.? It is not mine, Sure. But it is a ladder for me to reach to
my Father. How can I throw "prasaad" of Paramatma into gutter?

As regards, abortion etc , least said the better. This abortion
type of sins were not practiced even in the worst regimes of
Raavana, Hiranyakashyap, Kansaa etc in the past . We have lost the
very concept of human birth. Who are we to stop some soul from
coming to this earth - As a human being? If we take such stand how
Saints and Sages will come into this earth ?. We have ceased to be
mothers and fathers. Even animals are far far better than us.If
Mothers and Fathers do such crimes, where shall we land ultimately?.
I understand a mother is known to be safeguarding her children even
at the cost of her life. Here times have changed. Same mothers- so
that they may continue to look beautiful or so that there may not
be any discomfort, they kill the child in the womb itself. They
call themselves to be mothers ! Does any mother or father kill own
children ? Even vampires do not do that ! Child can not even cry !
Child can not even complain ! Cut to pieces – with consent of
mother – MOTHER ! Even shame itself gets ashamed ! Read Swamiji's
latest message on Sadhak site.

Coming back to the original question , here is some direct life
experiences.

JUST AS : Every female has a power of being mother. Every female
essentially reflects motherhood. But a husband or lover can not see
mother in his wife or in his beloved. He has made his brains limited
and sees the female only as wife and likes to enjoy her as wife. A
husband considers wife as a "bhogya" – an object of making"majaa"
and enjoyment. So does every seeker of worldly pleasure, every
luster , every "yaar" of a female sees the female as "bhogya" only.
How can then "mother" be visible by them in a female ?

SIMILARLY : Every person, every creature, every circumstance, every
incidence, every situation, everybody , everything in this world has
at its base/roots/essence – Paramatma residing. One cannot see God
everywhere because we have made our brains limited. We like to
enjoy, derive pleasure out of every person/body/situation etc. They
are "bhogya" for us. They are objects of making "majaa" for us. How
then can God be visible to us – in all/ everywhere? Can a husband
see mother in his wife?

Raam Raam Raam

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
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Narayan Narayan

On that which we have no power or control, to consider that thing
our own, is foolishness. We are unable to change this body
according to our wishes. We are not able to change it from old, to
young, nor from sick to being well, nor are we able to change it
from weak to strong, nor from dark color to fair, nor from ugly to
pretty. Nor are we able to save it from death and have it be
immortal. In spite of many (million) attempts, this body falls
sick; it becomes weak; it becomes old; it dies. This body is
perishable, and our true Self is imperishable. For this
imperishable essence, there can only be imperishable thing. This
body is only a vehicle to perform actions and these actions are
performed only for the world. Attachment is not the name of man,
rather discrimination is the name of man. This body is of this
world, and believing it to be your own is dishonesty, resulting in
punishment in the form of birth-death and great sorrow.

Ramchandra

IN HINDI
Jes per apna vash nahin chale usko apna man lena murakhta hein
Hum apni iccha ke anushar shareer ko badal nahin sakte. bhude se
Jawaan nahin ho sakte, rogi se nirogi nahin ho sakte ,kamgor se
balwan Nahin ba na sakte kale se goora nahin ba na sakte ku-roop se
sunder Nahin ba na sakte martuyu se bachaker amar nahin ba na sakte
hamare Na chahte hu -a bhi lakh kosish karne per bhi sareer bhimar
ho ja ta Hain.
Kamjor ho ja ta hein bhudha ho ja ta hein mar ja ta hein
Sareer naswan hein or hamara swaroop avinashi hein.
Avinashi tatav ke li ye avinashi vastu hi ho sakti hein
Naswan vashtu avinashi ke li ye kai se ho sakti hein
Sareer keval karam karne ka shadhan hein or karam keval sanshar ke
li ye. Ho ta hein.(aakkarti ka name manushya nahin hein balki
vevikshakti ka Name manushya hein). Sareer sansar ki vashtu hein
jesko apna man na bai-e-mani ka dand hein Janam -maran ka mahan dukh
(ramchandra)

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PRIOR POSTING
Shree Hari
Ram Ram

IN ENGLISH

Daughter Malika, this body and this mind, are both not ours, by
saying this the point is that neither should we remain strongly
attached to this body, nor should we be engrossed with this mind.

Now the point that remains is, while fulfilling the duties of a
chaste wife, how is one to deal with a situation, where some other
man is filled with passion and attraction for this body and possibly
this mind? You must absolutely not allow this other man to play
with your body or mind. Immediately move away from him, however
much he feels loving and adorable to you. Gita teaches us this
practical application.

Very well,

Sarvottam

IN HINDI
Malika Beti, yeh tana aur yeh mana dono hi apne nahin hai, yeh
kahenekaa taatparya yeh hai ki hum ne toh is tana mein aasakta rahe,
aurn na hi is mana mein aasakt rahe.

Ab rahi yeh baat ki ekpativratkaa nirvahen karte huye us paristhiti
se kaise nipataa jaaye, jab koyi per purush is tana per aur shaayad
is mana per anuraag se bhar uthaa ho? Aap us per purushko katiyee
apne is tana aur mana ke saath khelne mat deejiye. Ekdum usse hat
jaayiye, chaahe who aapko kitnaa bhi priye kyon ne ho. Gita yahin
vyaavahaariktaa hame sikhaatee hai.

Astu
Sarvottam
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Priya Sadhaks

It is always a pleasure to read detailed answers of Vyasji and arrow
like brief responses of Mike Keenor on this real divine site. Jee
Jee Shashikala is missing on this really deep question.

My question is to Vyasji. Your repeated reference to this shruti,
yukti, anubhuti thing - is it a universal law or there are some
exceptions to it? Can we test this always. I liked Mike Keenor
equating this "body" as temple. What do you say Vyasji and other
sadhaks? It is not ours and still as good as temple ? Pls elaborate .

M M Purohit
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Societal Norms Of Monogamy

Today's societal norms of monogamy are not in alliance with our
scriptures. The family planning initiatives of abortion etc. are a
straight road to hell.

I would request Sir Vyasji, Rajendraji, Meeraji etc. to give their
view points on this. They have seen Swamiji and done Satsang with
Him on a one-to-one basis so they would be in a better position to
opine on this.

Regards,
Varun P. Paprunia
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Priy Aatman,
Thats very fine or we may say refined Question.
The answer to this is also very subtle / micro (Sookshm). You need
to make your
mind subtle / sookshm to conceive the idea.
As mentioned by GURU Vashishthji to Lord RAMJI. It goes like this:
1. Ramji, There are two views in this life (Is sansaar mein DO
drishti hain).
One is viewing the world through the eyes of Soul (spirit), In this
view, one
sees that one consciousness (soul) in every one (Ek Aatm drishti
jiske anusaar
tume sabh mein ek aatma hee dikhai dega), And the other is seeing
from the
worldly perspective, in this field of sensory perceptions where one
sees
separate entities (Aur ek srishti drishti hai jis mein tumhe vibhin
jeev drishti
gochar honge). Oh Ram, in this world, kee both sights, one for
societal living
and one for the Self (He ram tum sansar mein do drishti rakhna,. Ek
Lok vyavhaar
ke liye aur ek swayam ke liye).

2. In Bhagwad Geetaji - Swami Ramsukhdasji elaborated in
Samdarshinah &
samvartanah. Swamiji said samvartan means equal behavior with all
cannot &
should not be done (in relationships and customary practices) but
Samdarshan
means seeing God in every body must be done because that the truth.

3. If we watch our day to day actions we feel that we dont behave
equally with
all parts of our body, we discriminate according to their function.
So when we
discriminate with our body parts how can we allow equal behavior
with other
people.

4.Adhyatm or Paramatm is a purest bhavana (Feeling, ones self
experience), this
cant be bound in any particular rule, formula, Does & donts. All
pervading God
is in your heart & will show you right path. He will send divinity
when you are
right & will send condemnation when you go for wrong.
Follow his inspirations.
Thanx
Hope it helps
Raja Gurdasani

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Dear Sadaks,
Hare Ramachandra Ram Ram. The body is sewage, filth, flesh, bones,
etc is true for people who indulge in drinks, eating nonveg,
pleasures, and going behind woman other than one` wife.
The body is an excellent tool/equipment for me to sing names of
Bagavan, to clap my hands in bajans and fold hands before bagavan,
feet to visit temples, eyes to see Neel Mega Shyamam- peocock
feather, HIS golden crown, His graceful eyes Etc.
Now how some saints used their bodies:
1) Peria Alwar one of the 12 Vaishavite, sang the greatness and
benevolence of Vishnu, daily maintained a garden of flowers and made
garland to put it on Sri Ranganathar in Sri Rangam. He had a
daughter by name Andal to whom he used to tell stories about Sri
Krishna the whole day. Andal is nobody other than mother Maha
Lakshmi desired to work along with Peria Alwar, desired to listen
the praises of Sri Narayana, took BODY in Srivalliputtur south
India. Her deep love for Bagavan ended with marrying Bagavan. Even
today one can see where Andal sat as bride in Sri Rangam Temple. In
the presence of 1000 of people she disappeared and appeared in the
sky along with Sri Narayana. Those days’ people witnessed that
scene.

2) In Tirumala Hills a person by name Thirukachi Nambi toiled
months to make a pond for Sri Venkateswara and the Bagavan came in
the form of a boy to bless him. To day one can see that pond named
as Alwar tank. His body was a tool.

3) One shivite saint by name Pattinathar of recent years,
happen to see his friend in a prostitute house. Saint said, “Why
you are indulging in bodily pleasures- Say Nama Shivaya- Don’t
waste your time”. The friend said look at the eyes so beautiful.
Saint said look at it in the early morning the eyes give nasty
paste. Friend said look at her structure. Saint said don’t you
smell filthy next day morning. Friend got irritated and gave a slap
on saint cheek. Saint walking said, “Oh Shiva this your leela”.
Within hours the friend got stroke on right hand and leg.. Here the
body of his friend for saint was sewrage as the body use is such.
The same saint` s body is divine with Nava Sidhis. One can use body
to become divine or sewrage.

Now from scripts: Gandarvas, Indra Lok people, Kinkanars etc from
other higher worlds have to take a BODY to perform penance to
eradicate their sins. Example. Nala and Maniguppa the 2 Gandervas
had to be born as trees in garden where Sri Krishna was playing. The
trees were set apart by Bagavan going in between the trees with
grinder tied to HIS hip.

Veda Vyas used the body to write scared scripts, Vasista used his
body training Sri Rama, Jatayu bird gave it` s wings fighting with
Ravana. Jatayu got Mukthi. Ravana got disgrace. Sridi Sai Baba body
became highly sacred with occult powers. So many saints and Bakthas
used their body for Bagavan

One cannot escape misuse of the body is due to his very bad karmas.
So also one cannot misuse the body for good Karmas. For Bagavan both
are same, as HE is witnessing both.

Without body for good Karmas one cannot elevate. Without body for
bad Karmas one cannot wash his Vasanas. Human body is blessed with
supreme powers without which we could not have had 108 Upanashids,
puranas, etc. But to discover that supreme power the body can be
used as DURVA did when Sri Vishnu took him on HIS lap. Prahalad said
to his father, “you may have conquered worlds, but you failed to
conquer the six enemies within you Kama, Krodha, Mada etc. Without
conquering these 6 enemies Oh father you are useless.” The same
lesson is for us. Let loose the 6 enemies and take several births or
control them to reach Bagavan. If one is millionaire NO use, if one
is Baktha he is priceless.

B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Your question regarding "body being mine or not", where to draw a
line of demarcation is being addressed by various sadhaks including
by me also in detail. Reg : "I am doer or not" - we shall address
along with this. As regards your question- On the other extreme , if
this body is not mine then does it mean it is ok to allow a man who
fancies this body , may be this mind too access to this body “ and
your question reg "societal norm of monogamy" please note, you have
a RIGHT TO UTILISE THIS BODY ONLY. That utilisation of this body has
to be as per norms of society/scriptures/ religion/ duty/ etc ( GITA
16: 24) . You have to there more rely on your CONSCIENCE , on your
wisdom and on the preachings of Scriptures etc. If utilisation of
this body is for self gratification, for getting worldly pleasures,
to feed the dictates of ego/mind etc then you are not sticking to
basic principle that this "BODY IS NOT MINE, NOT FOR ME, AND NOT
ME". Because then it is for YOU or for that person who you consider
to be mine. Basically you should utilise this body for doing "duty"
only. What is your duty ? What you CAN do, and what you SHOULD do is
your duty. On this SHOULD part, your conscience, religion, societal
norms, Scriptures etc are relevant. Both CAN and SHOULD must be
there in affirmative to constitute your doing a DUTY.

In deciding your duty , the golden principles of relying on
1- Shruti ( History, teachings of Scriptures, norms of
society/religion, advice of elders/Saints and Sages) ;
2 - Yukti ( logic/ rationale / appropriateness) and
3 - Anubhuti ( the voice of your Conscience and your direct
experiences , if any in the matter ) are extremely useful/
relevant . Results derived out of these three golden principles
while taking a decision establish truth / duty - always correctly.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Who is your THE best teacher on the matters pertaining
to "yourself"? Believe it or not ….. it is your daily experience of
sleep. Who is you're THE best teacher on the matters pertaining
to "world" ? It is your own body. Sleep tells you what is the real
nature of "YOU" – the Self. Body tells you "How you should behave
with the world". Sleep is the SAMPLE of your ultimate goal- Peace
and Happiness. A part of sleep – dreams- also tell you the real
nature of world. Your Body is SAMPLE of world with which world you
are required to deal with every day in your human life. "You" are
SAMPLE of God. Nothing exists in this world except YOU ( Jeeva) ,
World ( Jagat) and God ( Jagdish) . Disconnection by the Jeeva with
Jagat, leaves only Jeeva and Jagat behind – and that is the ultimate
goal of getting this human life and human birth. Body functioning ,
if you observe it keenly, after stopping to identify yourself with
it , teaches you beautifully the fundamental principles of Karma
Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga !!! Your Body also teaches you
beautifully the practical aspects of some of the very FUNDAMENTAL
PRINCIPLES OF SHRI MAD BHAGWAD GITA ( BG).

Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj had in his repertoire innumerable ways
to explain the truth. One of them was drawing lessons from "direct
life experiences" of all of us. On this topic of Body also he gave
many practical examples > I am pleased to present those central
themes in my own way for the benefit of Sadhaks – all of which are
also relevant to the question raised by Malika S.

Here is first part on "FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF GITA:"

JUST AS : As a law- An eye can not see itself. SIMILARLY : As a law-
you can not understand your body ( and world as body is part of
world only) unless you stop identifying your "SELF" with the body.

JUST AS : When given a bitter syrup by a Doctor , an ailing patient
drinks that syrup though quite unhappily. SIMILARLY : Inspite of
your not liking/knowing/understanding/experiencing/realising the
fact that you are separate from your body – you should "accept" this
fact . Be sure realisation/ experience of this truth shall follow
thereafter.

JUST AS : What ever flows out of body is not part of body- be it
urine/stool/ sweat/cough/spit etc. Whatever does not flow out of
body is part of body like hands, legs, ears etc. SIMILARLY: Whatever
flows out of you, whatever changes is not part of YOU- your SELF. It
is our direct experience that this body is flowing. Childhood
flowed. Youth is flowing. Sensations/emotions/thoughts in the mind
flow continuously. Ego changes. Intelecct changes. Capacity of
organs of action and sense organs is flowing. Inside our body,
blood/gases/germs/bacteria etc keep flowing continuously. Air flows
in the body. Hence the body as a whole along with mind, intellect ,
ego etc is not part of us because they/it flows/changes. (BG 2:13)

JUST AS : In your body earlier there was childhood. It changed. Now
there is youth. It will change. Sometimes disease comes and goes.
Good health comes and goes. Thoughts come and go. States of waking,
dream, sleep keep coming and going , keep changing continuously.
Moods of subtle body, stabilities, states such as Samadhi etc keep
changing. But who ever is witnessing these changes in the
body/mind/moods/states , one who is counting the changes- does that
SELF changes. NO ! SIMILARLY: One who is changing and one who is
witnessing the changes, these two are separate entities. The former
is body, the latter is You, your SELF !

JUST AS : Whenever you throw anything out of your body, there is
instant relief. Be it urine/stool/vomit/cough/tears/sweat etc.
SIMILARLY: Whenever you disconnect with anything, there is immediate
relief/peace in you. ( BG 12:12)

JUST AS : In the skin disease of "eczema" ( daad) there is itching
on the skin. When you rub the skin, there is pleasure on one hand,
while there is pain of burning on the other hand. In fact both
pleasure and pain are "pain" only , because they arise out of a
disease of skin. SIMILARLY: In the disease of "connection with the
world" , both happiness and sorrow are ultimately "sorrow" only.
Because as a law every happiness ends, and at the end of every
happiness sorrow must emerge. ( BG – DUKHALAYAM ASHASHWATAM)

JUST AS : Hairs and nails are lifeless ( Jad- inert) and they are
not separate from your body which is lively, has a life. SIMILARLY:
Both Jad ( inert/Asat) and Chetan ( Sentient/ Sat) emerge out of
God. ( Sadsachhahamarjun- Gita 9 : 19/ 7:19 – Vasudevah Sarvam).

JUST AS : If you drink water in dream, your thirst is not quenched.
SIMILARLY: whatever worldly things/pleasures you can
accumulate/consume your basic desires of "to know" /"to get?to do
shall not get quenched/satiated.

JUST AS : Your eyes can clearly see a circle created by costant
running of a fan- but the circle does not exist. Your eyes clearly
see you in a mirror, but the fact is that you are not positioned in
the mirror. Your eyes clearly see a horizon, where sky and earth
meet, but the fact is they do not. You clearly see an elephant in
your dream, but the fact is that there was no elephant who came to
your bed room while you were sleeping.SIMILARLY: You clearly see the
world but the fact is that it DOES NOT EXIST. ( BG 2:16).

In the next posting we will understand how the body teaches you the
principles of KARMA YOGA. Believe me almost each and every major
principle of Karma Yoga is hidden in the functioning of your body.

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR MESSAGE
Hari Om

Your question starts with "Confusion in THIS mind ". "THIS" ( Idam –
BG 13:1) as a rule can not be "YOU". Hence fundamentally first be
crystal clear that " I am not this body, this body is not mine and
it is not for me". Lord Krishna started His teachings in Gita at the
outset itself by distinguishing between " YOU" and " Body" – is not
it.? All the three pillars of determining any TRUTH-,viz Shruti (
History, Scriptures), Yukti ( Logic/ Rationale) and Anubhuti ( Your
direct personal experiences) also establish this fact categorically.
Body is neither You, nor for you and not yours- This is TRUTH . Be
certain, you can NEVER NEVER find peace without accepting and
experiencing this fact. NEVER. Aeons have passed already because of
this "Confusion in THIS mind"- aeons will pass if you do not accept
this truth- in this human life. Be certain on that. Nothing will
result if you consider this body to be me or mine or for me because
fundamentally this body is part of nothing only. Hence
fearlessly "accept" this fact that you are not this body, it is not
yours and it is not for you.

Now the Question comes as to the line of demarcation. Once it is
clear that I am not Body ( Including Ego, mind, intellect, sense
organs, gross body) , it is NOT FOR ME and it is not Mine, then what
can you do with this body? This is the question. Answer is that it
has been given to you and it will be taken back from you. YOU HAVE A
RIGHT OF UTILISATION.( It is yours to that extent ONLY) Utilise
this body for service to the world. Utilise this body to serve the
nature. Utilise this body to serve the Lord. SERVE, SERVE and SERVE.
Serve this body also by not allowing it to become lazy. Keep it
healthy- so that you may serve the world better. Learn from this
body. Watch as a witness its functioning. Nothing teaches the "self"
more than the functioning of this marvellous creation of God. ( I
will touch upon the same in next posting). See what a beautiful Gift
you have got from your Loving Father. Your Special Father- God – has
given this special body to His special children for a special
purpose- for a limited time. UTILISE IT PROPERLY.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

In our sight we only see two things - 1) that which is perishable
(inert) and 2) that which is imperishable (sentient). The
departments of both are separate. This itself has been called in
the Gita as "the body" and the "one dwelling in the body", Akshara
(imperishable), kshar (perishable), "field" and the "knower of the
field." Saint have also called it "that which IS NOT" and "that
which IS".

Our true Self, is dweller in this body, consciousness,
imperishable, the knower of the field. That form which we see,
which is not our true Self, that is this body, which is inert, which
is perishable, and IS NOT. That which IS is ever attained, and that
which is NOT, it comes and later departs.

First and the foremost, we must understand this point very well,
that I am consciousness and existence. I am not in the form of this
body . Since childhood, so much has changed with this body, but we
have remained the same. We are the same ones. We first see this
body and then we see the Soul (Self). First we see the action and
then we see the inner sentiments. This polish / shine that we apply
on the surface, how long will it last? If we think deeply the it
become evident that Soul (Self, Spirit) is first and then is the
body, the sentiments are first and then come the actions.
Therefore our sight should first go towards the Self (Soul) and the
inner sentiments, not towards this body.

(ramchandra)

IN HINDI
hamaray dekh ne mai dho he chije aathi hein-one,naswan(jadh) two,
avinashi (chetan) dho no ka vibhag aalag aalag hein
isi ko geeta mai sharir or shariri,kshar or akshar, kshetra,
kshetragya or santho ne nahi or hein kaha hai.
Hamara swaroop shariri hein chetan hein avinashi hein akshara hein
kshaitragya hein or roop hein jo hamara swaroop nahi hein vah
sharir hein jadh hein nasvan hein khar hein kshaitra hein or nahi
hein roop hein jo hein roop hein vah nitya prapat hein or jo nahi
roop hein vah miltha hein or bhichud jata hein sharv pratham hamko
ye bhat achi tharah samaz le ni chaheye ki mai chinmay sattaroop hu
sharir roop nahi hu hum khate thai mai bhachpan me tha vahi mai aaj
hu sharir ko dekhe tho bhachpan se lekar aajtak hamara sharir ethna
bhadal gaya ki ush ko phehchan nahi sakte phir bhi hum vahi hein hum
sharir ko pahle dekh kar phir ushme aatma ko dekhte hein phale
akarti ko dekhkar phir bhav ko dekhte hein uper se lagaye polish kab
tak tekigee.vichar karne per sidh ho ta hein ki aatma phahle hein
or sharir piche hein bhav phahle hein or aakruti phiche hein tho
hamari najar phahle bhavroop aatma (swaroop)ki tharaf jani chaheye
sharir ki tharaf nahi.

(ramchandra)
----------------------------------------------------------
Ram-Ram, This body is like a vehicle given to us (our soul) to
travel in this world and in the process to get liberation (God
Realization). When we have a car (vehicle), we use it to reach our
destination or any other similar purpose. Once that is done, we
don't remain inside it, we come out of it. Then we think of some
thing else. Also, we don't let any body misuse the car or spoil it.
Same is with this body, Krishna has given us (our soul) this
beautiful car (body). Now its our duty to take care of it, because
it is the vehicle, which will take us to the door of liberation. We
all do take care of it, The problem is that we are not ready to come
out of it, we consider our-self as the car itself. That's the
mistake we have to realize Yes realize, and once we realize it, then
no power can make us do the same mistake, which we have been making
since thousand of years, Janam-Janam. (life after life)

Ashok Goenka
----------------------------------------------------------

Actually when we understand things [body, mind, matter, time,
energyetc..] in a deeper level then we understand that many of the
social norms are for just ordinary man, not for specially
enlightened.

A fence is for an on ordinary law-keeping person, not for a robber.
fence is nothing for a robber. just like that the social norms are
for an ordinary man for his/her journey, not for an enlightened
being. that is why in the holy texts of most of the religions, you
wont find teachings supporting monogamy.

This subject needs more enlightenment

love
Dr A Thomas
----------------------------------------------------------
Where does one draw the line?

For everything, given the personal and environmental constraints, we
draw a line where we are most comfortable with knowingly or
unknowingly. We all are gifted with that ability. Monogamy,
sexuality, human partnership, etc. are purely societal norms as
correctly mentioned here. Monogamy, polygamy, polyandry, etc. are
social conventions subjected to change and hence cannot determine
the spiritual quality in any sense. As far as one is dependent on
the society for living, it is better one conforms with its
restraints to be at peace. On the other hand, to give is fair when
we receive. As far as our worldly interactions are considered we
need to keep redrawing lines of understanding as the world keeps
changing. We become incompatible with the dynamic world around if we
let our notions freeze to their past. The survival instincts we are
borne with is to adapt ourselves to the circumstantial demands as
far as we depend on the world.

The sexuality is neither good nor bad in itself just like any bodily
function (except for its additional physiological implications
particularly with the women folks) it provides perceivable happiness
while dragging us into its enslaving trap binding us with crave and
lust. But, …

Yena rupam rasam gandham shabdaan sparshaanshcha maithunaan |
Etenaiva vijaanaati kimatra parishishyate ||

All the perceivable happiness we extract through vision, taste,
smell, sound, touch and sex are all momentary in themselves and are
non-existent without the support from something that runs the show –
the existential vitality that ensures bodily life. The very
cognition is rooted in one's vitality without which all the
experiences vanish to oblivion.

Na praanena naapaanena martyo jeevati kinchana |
Itarena tu jeevanti yasmaadyetou upashritou ||

The very vitality is not just the existential vitality rooted in
involuntary functions of this body such as breathing, heart beats,
etc., but something on which all these functionalities are
dependent. All the pleasures and pains that we experience are
facilated only by this force which cannot be perceived as such.

Swapnaantam jaagaritaantam cho'bhou yenaanupashyati |
Mahaantam vibhumaatmaanam tato na vijugupsate ||

But the fact is, we attain that very tranquility that we seek at the
end of our wakeful activities as we enter sleep and at the end of
our sleepful inactivity as we enter activities all the time through
all our activities. We fail in our missions and get trapped into
frustration as we digress in our activites loosing awareness of this
ever-present tranquility within. One who acknowledges THAT would not
digress from the tranquility in spite of action as well as inaction.

As far as one is on the digression … one has to keep drawing lines
of checks and balances to keep oneself in existential equilibrium
which is vulnerable to the ever-changing paramaters – both
individual as well as social – of the relative world. One who is
established in the tranquility attains the eternal equilibrium of
The Absolute which cannot be disturbed by anything because nothing
can exist beyond that to attempt modifying THAT. As far as we are
shifting our existential equilibrium toward the eternal equilibrium
it is OK – we are converging. If the opposite is happening … the
divergence insists us to draw more and more lines as we grow pushing
us into more and more painful quarters … nothing can help except
oneself … one has to learn how to draw a line so that no more lines
need to be drawn again at least in that respect … That is Sadhana to
me.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------------------------
jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH

In this entire infinite Universes, not even a minute thing such as a
splinter is ours, then how can this body be ours. Keep that which
remains carefully with you, do not get flow with that which is
flowing. Just like neither the gross, subtle or causal body are
ours; similarly, the actions performed by the gross body, nor the
contemplation by the subtle body, nor the meditation and stillness /
samadhi by the causal body, none of these are ours. Because all
activities have a beginning and an end, also every thought /
contemplation has a beginning and an end, and does not remain
forever. This is everyone's experience,

But no one has experience of their own Self coming and going, the
Self ever remains constant. Just like in a drama, one acts like a
king, then it is only for the purpose of the play, it is not real.
But that which is real, we have forgotten it (paramaatma)and that
which is not ours, we have believed it to be ours (body). It is
everyone's experience that we have no control over this body. We
are unable to change this body according to our wishes. That which
we have no control over, to consider that thing as ours is
foolishness. This body is perishable, whereas this self is
imperishable.
(shivkumar naravat)

IN HINDI
aanat bhrahmand mai aannat vastiye hein per unme tenke jithni
vastu hamari nahi hein.phir sharir hamara ke se hu-aa (rahta roop
sahi ker rakho bhahta sang na bhaheje) je se shatul,sukhsam ,or
karan-ye teeno sharir aapne nahi hein e-se he shathul sharir se ho
ne wali kirya shuksam sharir seho ne wala chintan or karan sharir se
ho ne wali shthirta t-tha shamadhi bhi aapni nahi hein. kyoki pertek
kirya ka aarambh or aant aata hein pertik chintan aata or ja ta hein
koi bhi avhstha nirnter nahi rahti in sab ka aane jane ka anubhav
hame hi tha hien.

per aapne aane jane ka(parivertan) anubhav ki si ko nahi hota hein
hamara hina pan niranter rahtha hein. je se natak mai koi raja
bantha tho vho shiraf natak kerne ke liye mane hu-aa hote hein
ashali nahi ho te hein.jo vashtav mai aapna hein us ko bhula diya
(permatma) or jo aapna na hi hein us ko apna man liya (sharir)yeh
hum sab ka anubhav hein ki sharir per aapna vash chalta nahi hum
aapni incha ke anushar sharir ko bhadal nahi sakhte jis per aapna
vash nahi na chale usko aapna manna murakhta hein sharir nashvan
hein or hamara swaroop avinashi hein
(shivkumar naravat)

----------------------------------------------------------
Nothing in this world is ours because everything is an illusion. The
only thing real is our soul which we cannot even see. To connect
with the soul we have to meditate. but that does not mean that we
should harm our body or let others harm it. After all it is the
place where our soul resides.

Hari Shanker Deo
----------------------------------------------------------
It depends on what's your mind set.

My body is not mine - If this body & mind is not your's, why do you
need access to others body & mind? If you are in a state where you
are not owning your body, why do you try to own others body? Also,
try to keep the body & mind as perfect as you can as its not your's
and you need to give it back sometime!!

My body is mine - If the body & mind is your's, try to keep it
always perfect and clean. Do not allow any anonymous access to it.
Depends on the person who try to access it, it may get dirty. Your
body & mind is your vehicle to go. So keep it
Prakash Nair

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POST
-Shree Hari-

This paste is from the latest post of Sadhaka, quoting Swamiji,
'This human body has been received for God Realization...'. I think
that says a lot.

The body is in ones care, you have stewardship over it, you or no
other human owns it.
Gitaji 13:22 through 35, deals a lot, regarding your questions.

In my humble form of expression; the body is the temple of: 'The Most
High', so why would one want to damage it?

After all how would you feel, if some persons defiled your favorite
shrine or temple?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike
(Mike Keenor)

----------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari

Dear Sadhaka, thanks for a good question.

As Swamiji Maharaj has explained it - The body is not mine and I am
not the body. Truly, I am only a ray of consciousness of the Supreme
(Gitaji: 15-7). Like this world, the body is made of the five
elements. This body does not belong to us, it is gifted to us by God
because of He is compassion for us to grant us a golden opportunity
to accomplish the single purpose of realizing God. The body is like
a chariot, given to us to complete this journey. We have a duty to
take good care of this body to keep it fit & able in order to be
able to serve the mankind, His wonderful creation.

The body is not ours but the karmas we do are ours, i.e.,
consequences of the Karmas we will have to deal with. But when the
actions are done as a dedication to God then we do not have to be
concerned with good and bad fruits of our actions (Gita 9-27 & 28).
Also, when we are doing actions as an offering to Him, we will be
doing only good actions.

We should not claim the doer of actions, because the actions are
done with the help of many other things and people of the world, to
claim ownership would be being dishonest. By claiming ownership we
will be bound (Gitaji: 3-9 & 3-27).

If the body was ours we should have a total control over the body
which we do not have. Everything happening to the body is not
happening with our permission, i.e., aging, falling sick and death
etc. When we consider the body to be ours, all the actions we do
with it become our responsibility, the result of all those fruit of
actions would be to keep us in the loop of birth and death cycle.

The body is a sacred temple and it has to be treated as such. Doing
actions without consideration to what is right or wrong will prove
to be a big mistake. Our Dharma does not allow us to do prohibited
actions, which would cause a chaos in the society. We have a social
responsibility to the society we live in. The holy sages and
scriptures are the guide in discerning what is right and wrong
(Gitaji: 16-24).

Ram Ram

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura
----------------------------------------------------------
Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

This body was not yours, will not remain yours, to believe it to be
yours is a grave mistake. Our relationship with the body is only for
doing duties. Embodied soul, this body and this world, which even
though they are not yours, having considered these to be your own,
what kind of justice is that? That which is yours, you do not
consider it to be yours. This is where the mistake lies.

As long as you consider this body to be your own, till that time, to
even think about your upliftment, your salvation is stupidity. This
body is a factory for producing sewage and dirt, what else is it
besides that? Even if you drink nectar, it turns into sewage, and
even if you eat the silkiest foods, it turns into dirt and come out.
(ramchandra)

IN HINDI

Sharir aapna tha nein apna rahega nahi es ko aapna man na bhari bhool
Hai sharir ke sath aapna sambadh keval karam kar ne ke liye hai
Jeev jagat or sharir(jo aapna nahi hai ushko aapna manna kaha ka
nayay Hai.jo aapna hai us ko aap aapna mante nahi yaha galti hoti
hai.

Jab tak sharir ko aapna man te rahoge tab tak kalyan ki bhat
Bhi souchna murakhta hai. Sharir (mal mutra banane ki machin hai es
ke siway or kya hai. Aap amrit piloo tho mutra banker nikal jayega
or mulywan vastu khaloo Tho mal banker nikal jayegi
(ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear sadaks,
Sometimes one has a high fever, but wants to attend a wedding. Body
is unabled, mind is abled. Here you and the body are different,
because the body does not listen to you.

Allowing the body to be fancied is wrong. Here one is
distinuguishing that the body is fancied. That thought is doership.
A man fancies a mad woman's body and uses her. The woman nethier
allowed him, nor felt the man used her. Here her mind has non-
doership, as that act was in no way fancied, enjoyed or even
regreted.

A prostitute by her beauty wanted to distort the name of Sant
Tukaram. But when Sant sang a Abang about how the beauty fades,
shrinks, becomes ackward and the Asti. She became another saint.
B.Sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear sadak,
We do not know when, how, why, this body came into existence. As a
child will not know about body or soul. When mind introgates deep
within or when some one says, then thinking process starts about
body and soul. If body was our we can control aging, diseases etc.
Often we here someone saying ,"look after your health". Means you
are differant from body and you have to take care of your health. I
am 65 and I was there before beeing in my mother womb. Where was I ?
Now after 80 I may die, then where am I ? Before and after I
existed, since i never came from Nothing. "Karmayesu Jalma, Jalma
Yeshu Karma". Doing karma birth comes and birth takes place for
Karma. This is the cycle of birth and death as per "Bajagovindam"
Now cought in cycle, by chance one does one of these
pooja/bakthi/namasankeethana/hears lecture on diviness, helps a
sadhu, thinks of Bagavan. That gives a Pala in next birth that you
be born in right place to good parents of divinity, get friends of
Sat Sangh, gets a guru and elevate to Bakthi. Once TRUE Bakthi gets
into mind, you are taken care of by Bagavan and you will surely get
Mukthi. This is there in BG. Raja Bali was in his previous birth a
rat in a temple. Due to Smurithies, the rat in nights licked the
wick of oil lamp to keep light for Bagavan. Rat was Raja Bali who
sent to Patalalok by Vishnu( As Vamana). But Sri Vishnu is the
protector of Bali in Patalalok.
Now about senses/mind/objects. These play a vital role in life
pattern based on your Karmas. Namadev was speeking Sri Krishna and
practically feeding Panduranga. What a gift one can have. But his
karma lead to another birth as Tukaram who went bodily to heaven by
a flying (puspaka Vimam) from Vaikunt Stal (To day one see that
place) Once Namadev was in bakthi, it was Bagavan Sankalp to give
him Gyna and Bakthi and take him to his abode in 1645. So control of
senses (Indriyas) bagavan has said in BG All senses are to obey
Dharma. Many of us can recollect that 20/40 years of life gone like
yesterday. So in this short period one should controls senses, he
becomes GOD loved.
Conscience is beeing illuminated by Bagavan and it says right or
wrong. Draw the line there srticktly. For one to go into Nothing
(where senses are not felt), still that stage of nothing Bagavan
illuminates. Like Valmiki was covered with ants/worms while in
meditating Ram Nam. But when GOD appeared his senses came back. Who
took care of him for years?
In Gujarat a old lady was recovered from debris of earth quake after
80 days alive. Who gave long lease of life. Ram Nam.
For social norms, attend but be wittness never get indulge. See all
that as Maya.
B.Sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------

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Monday, September 29, 2008

[gita-talk] Re: This Body is Not Mine

There is confusion in this mind regarding "my body is not mine and i
am not the doer". How far can/should one stretch the idea? At one
level this seems appropriate and I try to identify with it. On the
other extreme, if this body is not mine then does it mean that it is
ok to allow a man who fancies this body, may be this mind too;
access to this body? Where does one draw the line? Where does this
stand in respect to societal norms of monogamy?

Malika S
----------------------------------------------------------
NEW POSTING

Hari Om

In God Realisation - these principles do not give accurate results.
Scriptures are full of describing how so and so person did "tapasya"
for so many centuries or birth times. We don't find much references
of "quick realisation" except in some verses of Gitaji etc. Stress
is on the purification of Antahkarana. Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj
alone and Lord Krishna in Gita have stated it is easier and quicker
than normally presumed. There are cases like of Prahlad, Dhruva etc
but majority suggest "long drawn" process. Hence if some one applies
principle of SHRUTI in determining truth reg timing required for God
Realisation the answer will be "very very long time"

This answer obviously is not correct.

Yukti principle basically involves mind and intellect. It is clear
from Scriptures and experience that element called God is beyond
mind and intellect . No amount of logic and rationale can help one
in the same. God is a matter of "belief" and not
of "logic/rationale/mind" . Mind will always suggest God Realisation
is difficult, long drawn process.

Answer obviously is not correct.

On "Anubhuti" yardstick again, none of us has any direct experience.
Conscience is God Himself but respect to it is necessary. Alone
voice of conscience , even if you respect it - does not make all
three determine the truth regarding the time required for God
Realisation. Still "anubhuti" gives better results in this area than
Shruti and Yukti- because of conscience.

Main obstacle is Yukti.

This according to me is the sole exception to the divine principles
of Shruti/Yukti/Anubhuti . Though a deliberation in this regard by
fellow followers of Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj - like Mira Dasji,
Sarvottamji, Rajendraji, Mike Keenor, even Shashikalaji, Raja
Gurudasaniji, Papruniaji and other die hard believers of many many
Gita verses like 9:31 etc may by arguments in this regard prove this
exception too to be wrong. This time I am on the other side of
table. But I will be very happy to get proved wrong on this count.

Apart from above, in my humble opinion these 3 principles have
universal application in determining truth/duty/ ideal karmas and
helping us all in taking correct decisions in day to day life.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends,

I have been reading this correspondence for some time. May I attempt
to respond to this particular query!

In philosophy, there are two levels - Vyavaharik & Parmarthik.
Practical & Spiritual may be some where near the real Hindi/ Sanskrit
meanings.

At the spiritual level, we are all one, body does not belong to us,
we are atma & not body, etc. This has a particular field or scope.

At practical level, we live in this body, we have to eat, drink &
support this body. At practical level, we have to follow some
restrictions/Samyam etc.

While total celibacy is not meant for Gruhasthas, restricting sex
within the married life /monogamy is necessary for good spiritual
growth.

Hope, this answers the query.

For details, Adi Shankaracharya had given illustration of the
difference between practical & spiritual.

If a mad elephant is charging towards you, you have to run & save
yourself. You can't say that under Advaita philosophy, me & elephant
are one & I need not be afraid of the elephant.
If we mix up spiritual understanding in such practical matters,
disasters may be caused.

Regards,
Rashmin Sanghvi
----------------------------------------------------------
Even though this question was quite interesting, all the answers
sound very mundane and a bit preachy.

I don't think the Gita is so much about morals but more about
enlightenment through thinking. Unlike other religious documents it
does not talk down to people. It makes them think.

The question that Malika has, cannot be answered so easily. Given
the right circumstances, this would not be wrong. Draupadi was
married to 5 men, Krishna had so many wives including Radha who was
purportedly married.

If Gita was a moralistic document, it wouldn't have much value. It
would become like any other religious document.

The right and wrong of a situation has to be decided by the person.

The mind has to be capable of separating yourself from your own body
and making an objective judgment in a situation, the same that you
would if you were not the person making the decision.

Chetan Temkar
----------------------------------------------------------
shree Hari
ram ram
Chetanji, it will be helpful, in future to point out speicific
elements that you consider mundane and preachy, as opposed to a
generalized statement. Ram Ram
Gita Talk Moderator
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

According to Swamiji, at present there are no obstacles, to fulfill
a husband / wife's dharma (which includes monogamy) i.e.
righteousness. Each one is entirely and forever independent in
following righteousness. It is only when actions are done against
the scriptural injunctions, that scriptures, dharma, societal
obligations etc. are an obstacle.

Regarding the issue of abortion, as Vyasji has said, the lesser
spoken the better. Even Swamiji was often strictly instructed not
to speak much on this subject. he said he did not know how to
explain these things, who would listen, who to tell these to? There
is nothing that pained him more than destroying one that is
completely helpless and at your mercy (i.e. abortion) and killing of
cows and other beings. What to do? Who to tell? Yet, it
pained him deeply, the atrocities, that are taking place today, that
did not even take place in the kingdom of Ravana. As already
clearly stated by other sadhaks, Swamiji gave a simple ruling - DO
NOT DO TO OTHERS, WHAT YOU DO NOT WISH FOR YOURSELF. That simple
statement, says it all. Nothing remains to be said after this.

Swamiji said that any action, that becomes an obstacle in the
upliftment, in the betterment, in salvation of another being, is
SINFUL action. Now what to speak of not giving another soul an
opportunity to be born as a human, the rarest form of birth, and the
only form of birth where salvation, benediction, freedom from birth
and death is possible? He has clearly stated to stay away from
such "GHOR PAAP". This ignorance must be wiped out. And we must
proactively work towards this awareness, as most of these types of
sins are purely from lack of awareness, and the two desires - 1)
sense enjoyments (BHOG) and 2) desire for more - i.e. greed
(SANGRAHA).

Hope this helps, thank you for raising this point,

Meera Das
Ram Ram

----------------------------------------------------------

I am saddened by this query. Let it be clarified that this body is
made of panch tatva---prithvi, jal, agni, akash and vayu and belongs
to Ishwar---who is the lord of prakriti (nature) which consists of
these five tatvas or elements. Correct knowledge of metaphysical
truths should be accompnied by correct code of action which is
dharma. Dharma encompasses morality and duties. I am the soul , not
the body or the mind or the intellect. The body or mind or intellect
are only means or contrivances available to me to perform karma. I
should perform karma which is morally sound or according to
principles of dharma. Bhagwan Manu has prescribed monogamy under
normal circumstances for human beings and that should be followed as
a code of action.

Let incomplete knowledge or semi-truths not take us into the realm
of perversion.

Atul Sehgal
----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Hari Om

This refers to Q of MM Purohitji.

Shruti ,Yukti and Anubhuti are three golden divine principles to
determine truth, duty and ideal karma for human beings. These
principles have emanated out of Scriptures and are believed to made
by God Himself. They are universal in application and have a single
exception only. That exception is - God Realisation . These 3
principles do not apply on determining the time required for God
Realisation- as Laws made by God naturally do not apply on God
Himself Just As Laws made by a Parliament do not apply on
Parliament itself. ( Else how it can change it ? )

These three principles require you to first enquire about any
question by referring to Scriptures/views derived out of history or
historical facts pertaining to the subject/ views of learned or
elderly persons / views of Saints and Sages - What SHRUTI/ experts/
history says.

Then deliberate regarding the logic and rationale of the proposed
decision. See if that is logical conclusion. Reasons,
appropriateness etc should be established. The decision should not
defy logic. What your mind/intellect says.
That is Yukti.

Then comes your past experience on the subject. If there is no past
experience with you , check with people you believe in etc. Also
check up with your conscience , if it meets with it. What your
heart/ gut feeling/ experience says- Anubhuti..

If all three establish in affirmative- you can fearlessly decide in
favour of proposed decision. That is truthful. That is right and
correct decision.

To be concluded in the next posting.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Priya Sadhaks

This refers to observations of Dr Thomas stating that standards for
human conduct etc should be different for ordinary people and for
non ordinary people. He also observed that monogamy is not supported
by most of the scriptures/religions.

You have desired a more enlightened discussion on the subject.

In order to do that, and before getting deeper into the subject -
Can you elaborate further regarding your views on the subject Dr
Thomas? Can you pin point some religions or some holy texts where
this distinction between ordinary humans and other humans in respect
of such matters of standard conduct has been provided for and has
been recommended ? Can you further let us know as to how and why in
your view monogamy is not supported by most of the scriptures /
religions ? Who qualifies in your view to fall in the category of
ordinary people and other than ordinary people? Why ? Can you
support further this with some reference to some religions and some
holy texts?

M M Purohit

----------------------------------------------------------
PREVIOUS POSTING

Jai Hanuman

To me Monogamy is religion.

TUMHI MERE MANDIR TUMHI MERI POOJA TUMHI DEVATA HO !

MAIN HOON EK CHHOTI SI MAATI KI GUDIYA, TUMHI PRAAN MERE TUMHI ATMA
HO !!

O Dear Hubby ! You alone are my temple, you alone are my worship,
you alone are my God ! I am a small doll made of dust , you are the
life force in it , you are the soul in it.

TUMHI MERE MAATHE KI BINDIYAA KI JHILMIL , TUMHI MERE HAATHON KE
GAJARO KI MANZIL !

KOI MERI AANKHON SE DEKHE TO SAMAJHE KE TUM MERE KYAA HO !!

O Dear Husband ! You are the glitter of my Bindiyaa. You are the
goal of my bangles. If some body looks into my eyes, one will
understand as to who you are for me.

JIDHAR DEKHATI HOON UDHAR TUM HI TUM HO , NA JAANE MAGAR KIN
KHYAALON MAIN GUM HO !

MUZHE DEKH KAR TUM JARA MUSKARAADO , NAHIN TO MAIN SAMJHOONGI MUJHSE
KHAFA HO !!

Where ever I see , I find you there only. Today you appear to be
lost in some thoughts. Please smile at me or else I will presume
you are annoyed with me.

BAHUT RAAT BEETI CHALO MAIN SULAADON, PAWAN CHHEDE SARGAM MAIN LORI
SUNAADOO !

TUMHE DEKHKAR YE KHYAAL AA RAHA HAI, KE JAISE FARISHTAA KOI
SO RAHA HO

O Darling ! A lot of the night has come to pass. Please
sleep while air is rhythmically flowing and I am singing for you.
When I see you peacefully sleeping, a thought comes in my mind that
an Angel is sleeping.

Of course, Murali Bhaiyya this body is temple. Mike Bhaiyya, Madanji
Kaura , Sathyanarainji, Sarvottamji are absolutely right. No doubts
on that.

Namaste Jee

Jee Jee
Shashikala
----------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Before I continue with my compilation from Swamiji's books
of "direct life personal experiences" let me devote today's posting
in replying to Papruniaji and Muraliji. To my mind, this body is
indeed a temple. How can such a gift which has been so lovingly
given by Paramatma to His children for such a pious cause of "God
Realisation" – be anything less than a temple? Where is the doubt in
that.? It is not mine, Sure. But it is a ladder for me to reach to
my Father. How can I throw "prasaad" of Paramatma into gutter?

As regards, abortion etc , least said the better. This abortion
type of sins were not practiced even in the worst regimes of
Raavana, Hiranyakashyap, Kansaa etc in the past . We have lost the
very concept of human birth. Who are we to stop some soul from
coming to this earth - As a human being? If we take such stand how
Saints and Sages will come into this earth ?. We have ceased to be
mothers and fathers. Even animals are far far better than us.If
Mothers and Fathers do such crimes, where shall we land ultimately?.
I understand a mother is known to be safeguarding her children even
at the cost of her life. Here times have changed. Same mothers- so
that they may continue to look beautiful or so that there may not
be any discomfort, they kill the child in the womb itself. They
call themselves to be mothers ! Does any mother or father kill own
children ? Even vampires do not do that ! Child can not even cry !
Child can not even complain ! Cut to pieces – with consent of
mother – MOTHER ! Even shame itself gets ashamed ! Read Swamiji's
latest message on Sadhak site.

Coming back to the original question , here is some direct life
experiences.

JUST AS : Every female has a power of being mother. Every female
essentially reflects motherhood. But a husband or lover can not see
mother in his wife or in his beloved. He has made his brains limited
and sees the female only as wife and likes to enjoy her as wife. A
husband considers wife as a "bhogya" – an object of making"majaa"
and enjoyment. So does every seeker of worldly pleasure, every
luster , every "yaar" of a female sees the female as "bhogya" only.
How can then "mother" be visible by them in a female ?

SIMILARLY : Every person, every creature, every circumstance, every
incidence, every situation, everybody , everything in this world has
at its base/roots/essence – Paramatma residing. One cannot see God
everywhere because we have made our brains limited. We like to
enjoy, derive pleasure out of every person/body/situation etc. They
are "bhogya" for us. They are objects of making "majaa" for us. How
then can God be visible to us – in all/ everywhere? Can a husband
see mother in his wife?

Raam Raam Raam

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

On that which we have no power or control, to consider that thing
our own, is foolishness. We are unable to change this body
according to our wishes. We are not able to change it from old, to
young, nor from sick to being well, nor are we able to change it
from weak to strong, nor from dark color to fair, nor from ugly to
pretty. Nor are we able to save it from death and have it be
immortal. In spite of many (million) attempts, this body falls
sick; it becomes weak; it becomes old; it dies. This body is
perishable, and our true Self is imperishable. For this
imperishable essence, there can only be imperishable thing. This
body is only a vehicle to perform actions and these actions are
performed only for the world. Attachment is not the name of man,
rather discrimination is the name of man. This body is of this
world, and believing it to be your own is dishonesty, resulting in
punishment in the form of birth-death and great sorrow.

Ramchandra

IN HINDI
Jes per apna vash nahin chale usko apna man lena murakhta hein
Hum apni iccha ke anushar shareer ko badal nahin sakte. bhude se
Jawaan nahin ho sakte, rogi se nirogi nahin ho sakte ,kamgor se
balwan Nahin ba na sakte kale se goora nahin ba na sakte ku-roop se
sunder Nahin ba na sakte martuyu se bachaker amar nahin ba na sakte
hamare Na chahte hu -a bhi lakh kosish karne per bhi sareer bhimar
ho ja ta Hain.
Kamjor ho ja ta hein bhudha ho ja ta hein mar ja ta hein
Sareer naswan hein or hamara swaroop avinashi hein.
Avinashi tatav ke li ye avinashi vastu hi ho sakti hein
Naswan vashtu avinashi ke li ye kai se ho sakti hein
Sareer keval karam karne ka shadhan hein or karam keval sanshar ke
li ye. Ho ta hein.(aakkarti ka name manushya nahin hein balki
vevikshakti ka Name manushya hein). Sareer sansar ki vashtu hein
jesko apna man na bai-e-mani ka dand hein Janam -maran ka mahan dukh
(ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING
Shree Hari
Ram Ram

IN ENGLISH

Daughter Malika, this body and this mind, are both not ours, by
saying this the point is that neither should we remain strongly
attached to this body, nor should we be engrossed with this mind.

Now the point that remains is, while fulfilling the duties of a
chaste wife, how is one to deal with a situation, where some other
man is filled with passion and attraction for this body and possibly
this mind? You must absolutely not allow this other man to play
with your body or mind. Immediately move away from him, however
much he feels loving and adorable to you. Gita teaches us this
practical application.

Very well,

Sarvottam

IN HINDI
Malika Beti, yeh tana aur yeh mana dono hi apne nahin hai, yeh
kahenekaa taatparya yeh hai ki hum ne toh is tana mein aasakta rahe,
aurn na hi is mana mein aasakt rahe.

Ab rahi yeh baat ki ekpativratkaa nirvahen karte huye us paristhiti
se kaise nipataa jaaye, jab koyi per purush is tana per aur shaayad
is mana per anuraag se bhar uthaa ho? Aap us per purushko katiyee
apne is tana aur mana ke saath khelne mat deejiye. Ekdum usse hat
jaayiye, chaahe who aapko kitnaa bhi priye kyon ne ho. Gita yahin
vyaavahaariktaa hame sikhaatee hai.

Astu
Sarvottam
----------------------------------------------------------

Priya Sadhaks

It is always a pleasure to read detailed answers of Vyasji and arrow
like brief responses of Mike Keenor on this real divine site. Jee
Jee Shashikala is missing on this really deep question.

My question is to Vyasji. Your repeated reference to this shruti,
yukti, anubhuti thing - is it a universal law or there are some
exceptions to it? Can we test this always. I liked Mike Keenor
equating this "body" as temple. What do you say Vyasji and other
sadhaks? It is not ours and still as good as temple ? Pls elaborate .

M M Purohit
----------------------------------------------------------
Societal Norms Of Monogamy

Today's societal norms of monogamy are not in alliance with our
scriptures. The family planning initiatives of abortion etc. are a
straight road to hell.

I would request Sir Vyasji, Rajendraji, Meeraji etc. to give their
view points on this. They have seen Swamiji and done Satsang with
Him on a one-to-one basis so they would be in a better position to
opine on this.

Regards,
Varun P. Paprunia
----------------------------------------------------------
Priy Aatman,
Thats very fine or we may say refined Question.
The answer to this is also very subtle / micro (Sookshm). You need
to make your
mind subtle / sookshm to conceive the idea.
As mentioned by GURU Vashishthji to Lord RAMJI. It goes like this:
1. Ramji, There are two views in this life (Is sansaar mein DO
drishti hain).
One is viewing the world through the eyes of Soul (spirit), In this
view, one
sees that one consciousness (soul) in every one (Ek Aatm drishti
jiske anusaar
tume sabh mein ek aatma hee dikhai dega), And the other is seeing
from the
worldly perspective, in this field of sensory perceptions where one
sees
separate entities (Aur ek srishti drishti hai jis mein tumhe vibhin
jeev drishti
gochar honge). Oh Ram, in this world, kee both sights, one for
societal living
and one for the Self (He ram tum sansar mein do drishti rakhna,. Ek
Lok vyavhaar
ke liye aur ek swayam ke liye).

2. In Bhagwad Geetaji - Swami Ramsukhdasji elaborated in
Samdarshinah &
samvartanah. Swamiji said samvartan means equal behavior with all
cannot &
should not be done (in relationships and customary practices) but
Samdarshan
means seeing God in every body must be done because that the truth.

3. If we watch our day to day actions we feel that we dont behave
equally with
all parts of our body, we discriminate according to their function.
So when we
discriminate with our body parts how can we allow equal behavior
with other
people.

4.Adhyatm or Paramatm is a purest bhavana (Feeling, ones self
experience), this
cant be bound in any particular rule, formula, Does & donts. All
pervading God
is in your heart & will show you right path. He will send divinity
when you are
right & will send condemnation when you go for wrong.
Follow his inspirations.
Thanx
Hope it helps
Raja Gurdasani

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
Hare Ramachandra Ram Ram. The body is sewage, filth, flesh, bones,
etc is true for people who indulge in drinks, eating nonveg,
pleasures, and going behind woman other than one` wife.
The body is an excellent tool/equipment for me to sing names of
Bagavan, to clap my hands in bajans and fold hands before bagavan,
feet to visit temples, eyes to see Neel Mega Shyamam- peocock
feather, HIS golden crown, His graceful eyes Etc.
Now how some saints used their bodies:
1) Peria Alwar one of the 12 Vaishavite, sang the greatness and
benevolence of Vishnu, daily maintained a garden of flowers and made
garland to put it on Sri Ranganathar in Sri Rangam. He had a
daughter by name Andal to whom he used to tell stories about Sri
Krishna the whole day. Andal is nobody other than mother Maha
Lakshmi desired to work along with Peria Alwar, desired to listen
the praises of Sri Narayana, took BODY in Srivalliputtur south
India. Her deep love for Bagavan ended with marrying Bagavan. Even
today one can see where Andal sat as bride in Sri Rangam Temple. In
the presence of 1000 of people she disappeared and appeared in the
sky along with Sri Narayana. Those days’ people witnessed that
scene.

2) In Tirumala Hills a person by name Thirukachi Nambi toiled
months to make a pond for Sri Venkateswara and the Bagavan came in
the form of a boy to bless him. To day one can see that pond named
as Alwar tank. His body was a tool.

3) One shivite saint by name Pattinathar of recent years,
happen to see his friend in a prostitute house. Saint said, “Why
you are indulging in bodily pleasures- Say Nama Shivaya- Don’t
waste your time”. The friend said look at the eyes so beautiful.
Saint said look at it in the early morning the eyes give nasty
paste. Friend said look at her structure. Saint said don’t you
smell filthy next day morning. Friend got irritated and gave a slap
on saint cheek. Saint walking said, “Oh Shiva this your leela”.
Within hours the friend got stroke on right hand and leg.. Here the
body of his friend for saint was sewrage as the body use is such.
The same saint` s body is divine with Nava Sidhis. One can use body
to become divine or sewrage.

Now from scripts: Gandarvas, Indra Lok people, Kinkanars etc from
other higher worlds have to take a BODY to perform penance to
eradicate their sins. Example. Nala and Maniguppa the 2 Gandervas
had to be born as trees in garden where Sri Krishna was playing. The
trees were set apart by Bagavan going in between the trees with
grinder tied to HIS hip.

Veda Vyas used the body to write scared scripts, Vasista used his
body training Sri Rama, Jatayu bird gave it` s wings fighting with
Ravana. Jatayu got Mukthi. Ravana got disgrace. Sridi Sai Baba body
became highly sacred with occult powers. So many saints and Bakthas
used their body for Bagavan

One cannot escape misuse of the body is due to his very bad karmas.
So also one cannot misuse the body for good Karmas. For Bagavan both
are same, as HE is witnessing both.

Without body for good Karmas one cannot elevate. Without body for
bad Karmas one cannot wash his Vasanas. Human body is blessed with
supreme powers without which we could not have had 108 Upanashids,
puranas, etc. But to discover that supreme power the body can be
used as DURVA did when Sri Vishnu took him on HIS lap. Prahalad said
to his father, “you may have conquered worlds, but you failed to
conquer the six enemies within you Kama, Krodha, Mada etc. Without
conquering these 6 enemies Oh father you are useless.” The same
lesson is for us. Let loose the 6 enemies and take several births or
control them to reach Bagavan. If one is millionaire NO use, if one
is Baktha he is priceless.

B.Sathyanarayan

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Your question regarding "body being mine or not", where to draw a
line of demarcation is being addressed by various sadhaks including
by me also in detail. Reg : "I am doer or not" - we shall address
along with this. As regards your question- On the other extreme , if
this body is not mine then does it mean it is ok to allow a man who
fancies this body , may be this mind too access to this body “ and
your question reg "societal norm of monogamy" please note, you have
a RIGHT TO UTILISE THIS BODY ONLY. That utilisation of this body has
to be as per norms of society/scriptures/ religion/ duty/ etc ( GITA
16: 24) . You have to there more rely on your CONSCIENCE , on your
wisdom and on the preachings of Scriptures etc. If utilisation of
this body is for self gratification, for getting worldly pleasures,
to feed the dictates of ego/mind etc then you are not sticking to
basic principle that this "BODY IS NOT MINE, NOT FOR ME, AND NOT
ME". Because then it is for YOU or for that person who you consider
to be mine. Basically you should utilise this body for doing "duty"
only. What is your duty ? What you CAN do, and what you SHOULD do is
your duty. On this SHOULD part, your conscience, religion, societal
norms, Scriptures etc are relevant. Both CAN and SHOULD must be
there in affirmative to constitute your doing a DUTY.

In deciding your duty , the golden principles of relying on
1- Shruti ( History, teachings of Scriptures, norms of
society/religion, advice of elders/Saints and Sages) ;
2 - Yukti ( logic/ rationale / appropriateness) and
3 - Anubhuti ( the voice of your Conscience and your direct
experiences , if any in the matter ) are extremely useful/
relevant . Results derived out of these three golden principles
while taking a decision establish truth / duty - always correctly.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om

Who is your THE best teacher on the matters pertaining
to "yourself"? Believe it or not ….. it is your daily experience of
sleep. Who is you're THE best teacher on the matters pertaining
to "world" ? It is your own body. Sleep tells you what is the real
nature of "YOU" – the Self. Body tells you "How you should behave
with the world". Sleep is the SAMPLE of your ultimate goal- Peace
and Happiness. A part of sleep – dreams- also tell you the real
nature of world. Your Body is SAMPLE of world with which world you
are required to deal with every day in your human life. "You" are
SAMPLE of God. Nothing exists in this world except YOU ( Jeeva) ,
World ( Jagat) and God ( Jagdish) . Disconnection by the Jeeva with
Jagat, leaves only Jeeva and Jagat behind – and that is the ultimate
goal of getting this human life and human birth. Body functioning ,
if you observe it keenly, after stopping to identify yourself with
it , teaches you beautifully the fundamental principles of Karma
Yoga, Jnana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga !!! Your Body also teaches you
beautifully the practical aspects of some of the very FUNDAMENTAL
PRINCIPLES OF SHRI MAD BHAGWAD GITA ( BG).

Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj had in his repertoire innumerable ways
to explain the truth. One of them was drawing lessons from "direct
life experiences" of all of us. On this topic of Body also he gave
many practical examples > I am pleased to present those central
themes in my own way for the benefit of Sadhaks – all of which are
also relevant to the question raised by Malika S.

Here is first part on "FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF GITA:"

JUST AS : As a law- An eye can not see itself. SIMILARLY : As a law-
you can not understand your body ( and world as body is part of
world only) unless you stop identifying your "SELF" with the body.

JUST AS : When given a bitter syrup by a Doctor , an ailing patient
drinks that syrup though quite unhappily. SIMILARLY : Inspite of
your not liking/knowing/understanding/experiencing/realising the
fact that you are separate from your body – you should "accept" this
fact . Be sure realisation/ experience of this truth shall follow
thereafter.

JUST AS : What ever flows out of body is not part of body- be it
urine/stool/ sweat/cough/spit etc. Whatever does not flow out of
body is part of body like hands, legs, ears etc. SIMILARLY: Whatever
flows out of you, whatever changes is not part of YOU- your SELF. It
is our direct experience that this body is flowing. Childhood
flowed. Youth is flowing. Sensations/emotions/thoughts in the mind
flow continuously. Ego changes. Intelecct changes. Capacity of
organs of action and sense organs is flowing. Inside our body,
blood/gases/germs/bacteria etc keep flowing continuously. Air flows
in the body. Hence the body as a whole along with mind, intellect ,
ego etc is not part of us because they/it flows/changes. (BG 2:13)

JUST AS : In your body earlier there was childhood. It changed. Now
there is youth. It will change. Sometimes disease comes and goes.
Good health comes and goes. Thoughts come and go. States of waking,
dream, sleep keep coming and going , keep changing continuously.
Moods of subtle body, stabilities, states such as Samadhi etc keep
changing. But who ever is witnessing these changes in the
body/mind/moods/states , one who is counting the changes- does that
SELF changes. NO ! SIMILARLY: One who is changing and one who is
witnessing the changes, these two are separate entities. The former
is body, the latter is You, your SELF !

JUST AS : Whenever you throw anything out of your body, there is
instant relief. Be it urine/stool/vomit/cough/tears/sweat etc.
SIMILARLY: Whenever you disconnect with anything, there is immediate
relief/peace in you. ( BG 12:12)

JUST AS : In the skin disease of "eczema" ( daad) there is itching
on the skin. When you rub the skin, there is pleasure on one hand,
while there is pain of burning on the other hand. In fact both
pleasure and pain are "pain" only , because they arise out of a
disease of skin. SIMILARLY: In the disease of "connection with the
world" , both happiness and sorrow are ultimately "sorrow" only.
Because as a law every happiness ends, and at the end of every
happiness sorrow must emerge. ( BG – DUKHALAYAM ASHASHWATAM)

JUST AS : Hairs and nails are lifeless ( Jad- inert) and they are
not separate from your body which is lively, has a life. SIMILARLY:
Both Jad ( inert/Asat) and Chetan ( Sentient/ Sat) emerge out of
God. ( Sadsachhahamarjun- Gita 9 : 19/ 7:19 – Vasudevah Sarvam).

JUST AS : If you drink water in dream, your thirst is not quenched.
SIMILARLY: whatever worldly things/pleasures you can
accumulate/consume your basic desires of "to know" /"to get?to do
shall not get quenched/satiated.

JUST AS : Your eyes can clearly see a circle created by costant
running of a fan- but the circle does not exist. Your eyes clearly
see you in a mirror, but the fact is that you are not positioned in
the mirror. Your eyes clearly see a horizon, where sky and earth
meet, but the fact is they do not. You clearly see an elephant in
your dream, but the fact is that there was no elephant who came to
your bed room while you were sleeping.SIMILARLY: You clearly see the
world but the fact is that it DOES NOT EXIST. ( BG 2:16).

In the next posting we will understand how the body teaches you the
principles of KARMA YOGA. Believe me almost each and every major
principle of Karma Yoga is hidden in the functioning of your body.

Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR MESSAGE
Hari Om

Your question starts with "Confusion in THIS mind ". "THIS" ( Idam –
BG 13:1) as a rule can not be "YOU". Hence fundamentally first be
crystal clear that " I am not this body, this body is not mine and
it is not for me". Lord Krishna started His teachings in Gita at the
outset itself by distinguishing between " YOU" and " Body" – is not
it.? All the three pillars of determining any TRUTH-,viz Shruti (
History, Scriptures), Yukti ( Logic/ Rationale) and Anubhuti ( Your
direct personal experiences) also establish this fact categorically.
Body is neither You, nor for you and not yours- This is TRUTH . Be
certain, you can NEVER NEVER find peace without accepting and
experiencing this fact. NEVER. Aeons have passed already because of
this "Confusion in THIS mind"- aeons will pass if you do not accept
this truth- in this human life. Be certain on that. Nothing will
result if you consider this body to be me or mine or for me because
fundamentally this body is part of nothing only. Hence
fearlessly "accept" this fact that you are not this body, it is not
yours and it is not for you.

Now the Question comes as to the line of demarcation. Once it is
clear that I am not Body ( Including Ego, mind, intellect, sense
organs, gross body) , it is NOT FOR ME and it is not Mine, then what
can you do with this body? This is the question. Answer is that it
has been given to you and it will be taken back from you. YOU HAVE A
RIGHT OF UTILISATION.( It is yours to that extent ONLY) Utilise
this body for service to the world. Utilise this body to serve the
nature. Utilise this body to serve the Lord. SERVE, SERVE and SERVE.
Serve this body also by not allowing it to become lazy. Keep it
healthy- so that you may serve the world better. Learn from this
body. Watch as a witness its functioning. Nothing teaches the "self"
more than the functioning of this marvellous creation of God. ( I
will touch upon the same in next posting). See what a beautiful Gift
you have got from your Loving Father. Your Special Father- God – has
given this special body to His special children for a special
purpose- for a limited time. UTILISE IT PROPERLY.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
----------------------------------------------------------

Narayan Narayan

In our sight we only see two things - 1) that which is perishable
(inert) and 2) that which is imperishable (sentient). The
departments of both are separate. This itself has been called in
the Gita as "the body" and the "one dwelling in the body", Akshara
(imperishable), kshar (perishable), "field" and the "knower of the
field." Saint have also called it "that which IS NOT" and "that
which IS".

Our true Self, is dweller in this body, consciousness,
imperishable, the knower of the field. That form which we see,
which is not our true Self, that is this body, which is inert, which
is perishable, and IS NOT. That which IS is ever attained, and that
which is NOT, it comes and later departs.

First and the foremost, we must understand this point very well,
that I am consciousness and existence. I am not in the form of this
body . Since childhood, so much has changed with this body, but we
have remained the same. We are the same ones. We first see this
body and then we see the Soul (Self). First we see the action and
then we see the inner sentiments. This polish / shine that we apply
on the surface, how long will it last? If we think deeply the it
become evident that Soul (Self, Spirit) is first and then is the
body, the sentiments are first and then come the actions.
Therefore our sight should first go towards the Self (Soul) and the
inner sentiments, not towards this body.

(ramchandra)

IN HINDI
hamaray dekh ne mai dho he chije aathi hein-one,naswan(jadh) two,
avinashi (chetan) dho no ka vibhag aalag aalag hein
isi ko geeta mai sharir or shariri,kshar or akshar, kshetra,
kshetragya or santho ne nahi or hein kaha hai.
Hamara swaroop shariri hein chetan hein avinashi hein akshara hein
kshaitragya hein or roop hein jo hamara swaroop nahi hein vah
sharir hein jadh hein nasvan hein khar hein kshaitra hein or nahi
hein roop hein jo hein roop hein vah nitya prapat hein or jo nahi
roop hein vah miltha hein or bhichud jata hein sharv pratham hamko
ye bhat achi tharah samaz le ni chaheye ki mai chinmay sattaroop hu
sharir roop nahi hu hum khate thai mai bhachpan me tha vahi mai aaj
hu sharir ko dekhe tho bhachpan se lekar aajtak hamara sharir ethna
bhadal gaya ki ush ko phehchan nahi sakte phir bhi hum vahi hein hum
sharir ko pahle dekh kar phir ushme aatma ko dekhte hein phale
akarti ko dekhkar phir bhav ko dekhte hein uper se lagaye polish kab
tak tekigee.vichar karne per sidh ho ta hein ki aatma phahle hein
or sharir piche hein bhav phahle hein or aakruti phiche hein tho
hamari najar phahle bhavroop aatma (swaroop)ki tharaf jani chaheye
sharir ki tharaf nahi.

(ramchandra)
----------------------------------------------------------
Ram-Ram, This body is like a vehicle given to us (our soul) to
travel in this world and in the process to get liberation (God
Realization). When we have a car (vehicle), we use it to reach our
destination or any other similar purpose. Once that is done, we
don't remain inside it, we come out of it. Then we think of some
thing else. Also, we don't let any body misuse the car or spoil it.
Same is with this body, Krishna has given us (our soul) this
beautiful car (body). Now its our duty to take care of it, because
it is the vehicle, which will take us to the door of liberation. We
all do take care of it, The problem is that we are not ready to come
out of it, we consider our-self as the car itself. That's the
mistake we have to realize Yes realize, and once we realize it, then
no power can make us do the same mistake, which we have been making
since thousand of years, Janam-Janam. (life after life)

Ashok Goenka
----------------------------------------------------------

Actually when we understand things [body, mind, matter, time,
energyetc..] in a deeper level then we understand that many of the
social norms are for just ordinary man, not for specially
enlightened.

A fence is for an on ordinary law-keeping person, not for a robber.
fence is nothing for a robber. just like that the social norms are
for an ordinary man for his/her journey, not for an enlightened
being. that is why in the holy texts of most of the religions, you
wont find teachings supporting monogamy.

This subject needs more enlightenment

love
Dr A Thomas
----------------------------------------------------------
Where does one draw the line?

For everything, given the personal and environmental constraints, we
draw a line where we are most comfortable with knowingly or
unknowingly. We all are gifted with that ability. Monogamy,
sexuality, human partnership, etc. are purely societal norms as
correctly mentioned here. Monogamy, polygamy, polyandry, etc. are
social conventions subjected to change and hence cannot determine
the spiritual quality in any sense. As far as one is dependent on
the society for living, it is better one conforms with its
restraints to be at peace. On the other hand, to give is fair when
we receive. As far as our worldly interactions are considered we
need to keep redrawing lines of understanding as the world keeps
changing. We become incompatible with the dynamic world around if we
let our notions freeze to their past. The survival instincts we are
borne with is to adapt ourselves to the circumstantial demands as
far as we depend on the world.

The sexuality is neither good nor bad in itself just like any bodily
function (except for its additional physiological implications
particularly with the women folks) it provides perceivable happiness
while dragging us into its enslaving trap binding us with crave and
lust. But, …

Yena rupam rasam gandham shabdaan sparshaanshcha maithunaan |
Etenaiva vijaanaati kimatra parishishyate ||

All the perceivable happiness we extract through vision, taste,
smell, sound, touch and sex are all momentary in themselves and are
non-existent without the support from something that runs the show –
the existential vitality that ensures bodily life. The very
cognition is rooted in one's vitality without which all the
experiences vanish to oblivion.

Na praanena naapaanena martyo jeevati kinchana |
Itarena tu jeevanti yasmaadyetou upashritou ||

The very vitality is not just the existential vitality rooted in
involuntary functions of this body such as breathing, heart beats,
etc., but something on which all these functionalities are
dependent. All the pleasures and pains that we experience are
facilated only by this force which cannot be perceived as such.

Swapnaantam jaagaritaantam cho'bhou yenaanupashyati |
Mahaantam vibhumaatmaanam tato na vijugupsate ||

But the fact is, we attain that very tranquility that we seek at the
end of our wakeful activities as we enter sleep and at the end of
our sleepful inactivity as we enter activities all the time through
all our activities. We fail in our missions and get trapped into
frustration as we digress in our activites loosing awareness of this
ever-present tranquility within. One who acknowledges THAT would not
digress from the tranquility in spite of action as well as inaction.

As far as one is on the digression … one has to keep drawing lines
of checks and balances to keep oneself in existential equilibrium
which is vulnerable to the ever-changing paramaters – both
individual as well as social – of the relative world. One who is
established in the tranquility attains the eternal equilibrium of
The Absolute which cannot be disturbed by anything because nothing
can exist beyond that to attempt modifying THAT. As far as we are
shifting our existential equilibrium toward the eternal equilibrium
it is OK – we are converging. If the opposite is happening … the
divergence insists us to draw more and more lines as we grow pushing
us into more and more painful quarters … nothing can help except
oneself … one has to learn how to draw a line so that no more lines
need to be drawn again at least in that respect … That is Sadhana to
me.

Respects.

Naga Narayana.

----------------------------------------------------------
jai latiyal

IN ENGLISH

In this entire infinite Universes, not even a minute thing such as a
splinter is ours, then how can this body be ours. Keep that which
remains carefully with you, do not get flow with that which is
flowing. Just like neither the gross, subtle or causal body are
ours; similarly, the actions performed by the gross body, nor the
contemplation by the subtle body, nor the meditation and stillness /
samadhi by the causal body, none of these are ours. Because all
activities have a beginning and an end, also every thought /
contemplation has a beginning and an end, and does not remain
forever. This is everyone's experience,

But no one has experience of their own Self coming and going, the
Self ever remains constant. Just like in a drama, one acts like a
king, then it is only for the purpose of the play, it is not real.
But that which is real, we have forgotten it (paramaatma)and that
which is not ours, we have believed it to be ours (body). It is
everyone's experience that we have no control over this body. We
are unable to change this body according to our wishes. That which
we have no control over, to consider that thing as ours is
foolishness. This body is perishable, whereas this self is
imperishable.
(shivkumar naravat)

IN HINDI
aanat bhrahmand mai aannat vastiye hein per unme tenke jithni
vastu hamari nahi hein.phir sharir hamara ke se hu-aa (rahta roop
sahi ker rakho bhahta sang na bhaheje) je se shatul,sukhsam ,or
karan-ye teeno sharir aapne nahi hein e-se he shathul sharir se ho
ne wali kirya shuksam sharir seho ne wala chintan or karan sharir se
ho ne wali shthirta t-tha shamadhi bhi aapni nahi hein. kyoki pertek
kirya ka aarambh or aant aata hein pertik chintan aata or ja ta hein
koi bhi avhstha nirnter nahi rahti in sab ka aane jane ka anubhav
hame hi tha hien.

per aapne aane jane ka(parivertan) anubhav ki si ko nahi hota hein
hamara hina pan niranter rahtha hein. je se natak mai koi raja
bantha tho vho shiraf natak kerne ke liye mane hu-aa hote hein
ashali nahi ho te hein.jo vashtav mai aapna hein us ko bhula diya
(permatma) or jo aapna na hi hein us ko apna man liya (sharir)yeh
hum sab ka anubhav hein ki sharir per aapna vash chalta nahi hum
aapni incha ke anushar sharir ko bhadal nahi sakhte jis per aapna
vash nahi na chale usko aapna manna murakhta hein sharir nashvan
hein or hamara swaroop avinashi hein
(shivkumar naravat)

----------------------------------------------------------
Nothing in this world is ours because everything is an illusion. The
only thing real is our soul which we cannot even see. To connect
with the soul we have to meditate. but that does not mean that we
should harm our body or let others harm it. After all it is the
place where our soul resides.

Hari Shanker Deo
----------------------------------------------------------
It depends on what's your mind set.

My body is not mine - If this body & mind is not your's, why do you
need access to others body & mind? If you are in a state where you
are not owning your body, why do you try to own others body? Also,
try to keep the body & mind as perfect as you can as its not your's
and you need to give it back sometime!!

My body is mine - If the body & mind is your's, try to keep it
always perfect and clean. Do not allow any anonymous access to it.
Depends on the person who try to access it, it may get dirty. Your
body & mind is your vehicle to go. So keep it
Prakash Nair

----------------------------------------------------------
PRIOR POST
-Shree Hari-

This paste is from the latest post of Sadhaka, quoting Swamiji,
'This human body has been received for God Realization...'. I think
that says a lot.

The body is in ones care, you have stewardship over it, you or no
other human owns it.
Gitaji 13:22 through 35, deals a lot, regarding your questions.

In my humble form of expression; the body is the temple of: 'The Most
High', so why would one want to damage it?

After all how would you feel, if some persons defiled your favorite
shrine or temple?

With Respect and Divine Love,

Mike
(Mike Keenor)

----------------------------------------------------------
Shree Hari

Dear Sadhaka, thanks for a good question.

As Swamiji Maharaj has explained it - The body is not mine and I am
not the body. Truly, I am only a ray of consciousness of the Supreme
(Gitaji: 15-7). Like this world, the body is made of the five
elements. This body does not belong to us, it is gifted to us by God
because of He is compassion for us to grant us a golden opportunity
to accomplish the single purpose of realizing God. The body is like
a chariot, given to us to complete this journey. We have a duty to
take good care of this body to keep it fit & able in order to be
able to serve the mankind, His wonderful creation.

The body is not ours but the karmas we do are ours, i.e.,
consequences of the Karmas we will have to deal with. But when the
actions are done as a dedication to God then we do not have to be
concerned with good and bad fruits of our actions (Gita 9-27 & 28).
Also, when we are doing actions as an offering to Him, we will be
doing only good actions.

We should not claim the doer of actions, because the actions are
done with the help of many other things and people of the world, to
claim ownership would be being dishonest. By claiming ownership we
will be bound (Gitaji: 3-9 & 3-27).

If the body was ours we should have a total control over the body
which we do not have. Everything happening to the body is not
happening with our permission, i.e., aging, falling sick and death
etc. When we consider the body to be ours, all the actions we do
with it become our responsibility, the result of all those fruit of
actions would be to keep us in the loop of birth and death cycle.

The body is a sacred temple and it has to be treated as such. Doing
actions without consideration to what is right or wrong will prove
to be a big mistake. Our Dharma does not allow us to do prohibited
actions, which would cause a chaos in the society. We have a social
responsibility to the society we live in. The holy sages and
scriptures are the guide in discerning what is right and wrong
(Gitaji: 16-24).

Ram Ram

Humble regards,
Madan Kaura
----------------------------------------------------------
Narayan Narayan

IN ENGLISH

This body was not yours, will not remain yours, to believe it to be
yours is a grave mistake. Our relationship with the body is only for
doing duties. Embodied soul, this body and this world, which even
though they are not yours, having considered these to be your own,
what kind of justice is that? That which is yours, you do not
consider it to be yours. This is where the mistake lies.

As long as you consider this body to be your own, till that time, to
even think about your upliftment, your salvation is stupidity. This
body is a factory for producing sewage and dirt, what else is it
besides that? Even if you drink nectar, it turns into sewage, and
even if you eat the silkiest foods, it turns into dirt and come out.
(ramchandra)

IN HINDI

Sharir aapna tha nein apna rahega nahi es ko aapna man na bhari bhool
Hai sharir ke sath aapna sambadh keval karam kar ne ke liye hai
Jeev jagat or sharir(jo aapna nahi hai ushko aapna manna kaha ka
nayay Hai.jo aapna hai us ko aap aapna mante nahi yaha galti hoti
hai.

Jab tak sharir ko aapna man te rahoge tab tak kalyan ki bhat
Bhi souchna murakhta hai. Sharir (mal mutra banane ki machin hai es
ke siway or kya hai. Aap amrit piloo tho mutra banker nikal jayega
or mulywan vastu khaloo Tho mal banker nikal jayegi
(ramchandra)

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear sadaks,
Sometimes one has a high fever, but wants to attend a wedding. Body
is unabled, mind is abled. Here you and the body are different,
because the body does not listen to you.

Allowing the body to be fancied is wrong. Here one is
distinuguishing that the body is fancied. That thought is doership.
A man fancies a mad woman's body and uses her. The woman nethier
allowed him, nor felt the man used her. Here her mind has non-
doership, as that act was in no way fancied, enjoyed or even
regreted.

A prostitute by her beauty wanted to distort the name of Sant
Tukaram. But when Sant sang a Abang about how the beauty fades,
shrinks, becomes ackward and the Asti. She became another saint.
B.Sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------
Dear sadak,
We do not know when, how, why, this body came into existence. As a
child will not know about body or soul. When mind introgates deep
within or when some one says, then thinking process starts about
body and soul. If body was our we can control aging, diseases etc.
Often we here someone saying ,"look after your health". Means you
are differant from body and you have to take care of your health. I
am 65 and I was there before beeing in my mother womb. Where was I ?
Now after 80 I may die, then where am I ? Before and after I
existed, since i never came from Nothing. "Karmayesu Jalma, Jalma
Yeshu Karma". Doing karma birth comes and birth takes place for
Karma. This is the cycle of birth and death as per "Bajagovindam"
Now cought in cycle, by chance one does one of these
pooja/bakthi/namasankeethana/hears lecture on diviness, helps a
sadhu, thinks of Bagavan. That gives a Pala in next birth that you
be born in right place to good parents of divinity, get friends of
Sat Sangh, gets a guru and elevate to Bakthi. Once TRUE Bakthi gets
into mind, you are taken care of by Bagavan and you will surely get
Mukthi. This is there in BG. Raja Bali was in his previous birth a
rat in a temple. Due to Smurithies, the rat in nights licked the
wick of oil lamp to keep light for Bagavan. Rat was Raja Bali who
sent to Patalalok by Vishnu( As Vamana). But Sri Vishnu is the
protector of Bali in Patalalok.
Now about senses/mind/objects. These play a vital role in life
pattern based on your Karmas. Namadev was speeking Sri Krishna and
practically feeding Panduranga. What a gift one can have. But his
karma lead to another birth as Tukaram who went bodily to heaven by
a flying (puspaka Vimam) from Vaikunt Stal (To day one see that
place) Once Namadev was in bakthi, it was Bagavan Sankalp to give
him Gyna and Bakthi and take him to his abode in 1645. So control of
senses (Indriyas) bagavan has said in BG All senses are to obey
Dharma. Many of us can recollect that 20/40 years of life gone like
yesterday. So in this short period one should controls senses, he
becomes GOD loved.
Conscience is beeing illuminated by Bagavan and it says right or
wrong. Draw the line there srticktly. For one to go into Nothing
(where senses are not felt), still that stage of nothing Bagavan
illuminates. Like Valmiki was covered with ants/worms while in
meditating Ram Nam. But when GOD appeared his senses came back. Who
took care of him for years?
In Gujarat a old lady was recovered from debris of earth quake after
80 days alive. Who gave long lease of life. Ram Nam.
For social norms, attend but be wittness never get indulge. See all
that as Maya.
B.Sathyanarayan
----------------------------------------------------------

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